Crusader Kings [Concluded]

[johnhughthom]

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/index-1.jpg

A Crusader Kings Game


https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/Map-1.jpg

Ireland, 1070 AD.


https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/ulst.jpgUlster:

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/khaan-1.jpgkhaan (Duke)

Courtiers -

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/I-K-1.jpgI-K
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/DoubleA-1.jpgDouble A
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/Beskar-1.jpgBeskar

Counties: Ulaid, Tir Eoghain, Tir Connail.


https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/MUNS.jpgMunster:

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/cent-1.jpgCenturion (Duke)

Courtiers -

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/Crusaders2011-06-0702-48-32-54-1.jpgSkooma
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/TCV-1.jpgTCV
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/Roman-1.jpgRomanic

Counties: Tuadmumu, Desmumu, Urmumu.

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/CONN.jpgConnaught:

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/Kage-1.jpgKage (Duke)

Courtiers -

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/TLD-1.jpgTLD
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/auto-1.jpgautolycus
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/B_Ray-1.jpgB_Ray

Counties: Galway, Mayo, Sligo.


https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/LEIN.jpgLeinster:

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/Diamondeye-1.jpgDiamondeye (Duke)

Courtiers -

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/GodEmperor-1.jpgGod Emperor
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/Beefy-1.jpgBeefy
https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/A_Dane-1.jpgA_Dane

Counties: Dublin, Laigin, Osraige.


https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/papal-seal-90x65.jpgBishop:

https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/Jolt-1.jpgJolt

Gameplay:

The objective is to become the sole remaining house in Ireland, the last remaining Duke will be crowned King.

Houses:

Each house has county as well as Dukedom titles, these can be given to the other members of the house, though the Duke must always have at least one county title, each title gives it holder a bonus. Each House will also appoint a Chancellor, Steward, Marshall and Spymaster. The Duke can hold one of these titles.

Diplomacy:

Alliances are made by marriage, one house will send a bride, the other the groom. The house that sends the bride has a chance of a claim on a title held by the house of the the groom. The skill level of the respective Chancellor will determine which house sends the bride. The bride's house pays a dowry. Alliances can be made and broken at will, though breaking an alliance will not prevent a potential claim. Each house may only ally with one other at any one time.

Warfare:

Each provice has a manpower level which determines the number of soldiers that can be levied. Each 10 soldiers levied will cost 1 gold per turn. Military level, Duke and Marshall martial skill and other factors will determine combat. War can only be declared with a claim on a title, or with a valid Casus Belli (you'll know if you have one...)

Intrigue:

Spymasters can spend money on spying and assassins. The likelihood of success will come down to Intrigue levels of each Duke and Spymaster, the money spent and other factors.

Financial:

Each province has an income level which will determine how much money you make from it. Farming level, Duke and Steward's Stewardship levels and other factors will also affect your income. Trade agreements can also be made with allys.

Technology:

Each Dukedom will have a Farming level, Military Tech level and Stability level. These are determined mainly through choices made in events, you can choose to focus on one over the other.

Characters:

Each character starts off with random stats. These can change through time, through getting older, choices made in events and traits gained/lost. Each player is considered part of the family tree of his Dukedom, and could potentially become Duke were something to happen to the current incumbent...

Events:

Many events will take place over the course of the game, some effecting everyone and some only a select few or an individual. Some will be public, others private. You will have an option on how to react to each, each course will have different outcomes, these wil be unknown until the decision is made. Random events are a huge part of Crusader Kings and so will play a large role in this game.

Gameplay:

Each turn will be 48 hours, this will represent one game year. Each realm will have a Quicktopic to decide on how to proceed that year, all orders need to be made through the QT. PMs will only be used for individual's orders.

New Players:

Rather than post in thread or pm me, anybody wishing to join should approach the Dukedom they wish to join who will then announce the new player if accepted. (Idea stolen from I-K's EB RPG here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?135729-A-new-Europa-Barbarorum-roleplaying-game)) Dukedoms can actively recruit for players if they wish, this is encouraged early game as the Duke will be doing two jobs, which may have adverse effects.


Turn one: 1070.

William the Bastard has been on the Throne of England for almost 4 years, fighting to control his new subjects. The Lords of Ireland look fearfully across the Irish Sea, knowing Norman eyes will be on their lands once he is secure. Ireland is a divided land, answering to no King, easy pickings for a distinguished warlord such as William. Ireland will only be safe under it's own Monarch, an Irish Monarch. But who? Four great houses believe themselves destined to rule the Emerald Isle. Who will win out?

Year one:

A feast will be held this year in the court of Leinster. The Duchy of Leinster must choose how much to lavish on the event. All duchies must choose how to approach the great tourney, will the Courtiers be forced to help their Duke to win, or will the Duke allow them to compete freely?

Also the Pope has sent a Bishop to Ireland, he has no lands of his own. Perhaps he will find a generous Lord and benefactor, though he answers to no authority but God and the Pope in Rome.

This phase will last 72 hours, I will pm everybody and get the QTs open for each house tomorrow. They will have manpower, income, character stats etc for each Duchy and character. Let me know if there are any questions.

[B-Wing]

Haven't finished reading the post yet, but I wanted to make a couple points:

1) You've almost certainly got Leinster and Connaught switched. See this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_Ireland).

2) Mide isn't controlled be anyone. I figured it must belong to the Bishop, but I see that is not the case.

Anyway, looking forward to this! :laugh: Should be absolutely awesome!

[Jolt]

By the grace of God the Pope Alexander the II has, in his papal wisdom, decided to make me God's representative over this island. The Holy Church wonders who will be a faithful servant of the almighty god and offer our delegation its rightful place in this blessed island, so that we may offer our prears to God and witness his unending blessings.

[Diamondeye]

By the grace of God the Pope Alexander the II has, in his papal wisdom, decided to make me God's representative over this island. The Holy Church wonders who will be a faithful servant of the almighty god and offer our delegation its rightful place in this blessed island, so that we may offer our prears to God and witness his unending blessings.

Honored Servant of the Lord,

There is to be a great gathering in my lands this year where I count on all Dukes of the realm, as well as their retinues, to be present. Perhaps this could also prove an opportunity for Your Grace to introduce Yourself to the Dukes of the realm and settle this issue of where to reside. If Your Grace should find no other Dukes amiable or welcoming of Your company, consider this my invitation to make Your home in Leinster lands after the feast is over.

Walk with God,
His Faithful Servant and Duke of Leinster,
Diamondeye.

[johnhughthom]

1) You've almost certainly got Leinster and Connaught switched. See this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_Ireland).


Gah, well spotted. A copy-pasting goof. Fixed.


2) Mide isn't controlled be anyone. I figured it must belong to the Bishop, but I see that is not the case.

Nope, not controlled by anyone. None of the players that is...

[johnhughthom]

Pms sent, QTs opened.

Just to clarify, Jolt will need a new Cathedral built and given lands. It is up to each Dukedom to decide whether to offer to spend a certain amount (up to you) on a Cathedral, and he will need a county and the income from that also.

[Kagemusha]

Maybe Mide should be given to the Church as base to spread the good word of our Lord to these lands? I cant think of a better place for Cathedral on our Island.

Humble Servant of God and Ireland,

Duke of Connaught

[johnhughthom]

I think the current, non player, Count of Mide might have something to say about that.

[Kagemusha]

I think the current, non player, Count of Mide might have something to say about that.

Who is this person whom i havent even heard off? Surely he would not want to to stand in the way of God?

[johnhughthom]

Slight update made to gameplay section in opening post.

[robbiecon]

Why is there a game about Ireland going on, and I didn't know about it, Bah!

[johnhughthom]

Why is there a game about Ireland going on, and I didn't know about it, Bah!

Feel free to join. You're in Dublin, right? Contact Diamondeye and ask to join Leinster, or any other Dukedom you prefer, pming the relevant Duke.

[Skullheadhq]

I've never been in the gameroom before, but this looks VERY interesting since I just got CK free. What character is still open?

[johnhughthom]

I've never been in the gameroom before, but this looks VERY interesting since I just got CK free. What character is still open?

Choose which Dukedom you would like to join and pm the respective Duke. Each house is in the process of choosing Counts and offices at the moment.

[Diamondeye]

Why is there a game about Ireland going on, and I didn't know about it, Bah!

We could always use more arrowfodder loyal companions!

[Jolt]

We could always use more arrowfodder loyal companions!

The holy auction is opened! Whoever wishes to throw more mone-I mean indulgencies and land at me, then they shall enlist the support of the Holy Church in their endeavours in this island.

[johnhughthom]

Just to clarify after a query I had. This game isn't quite like the PBM games in the Throne Room, you don't need a copy of the game to play. Everything is done in the forum, and in the Dukedom QTs.

[Double A]

As the character with the biggest nose, I feel need to point out that "gained lost" is not a phrase in any language I know of.


Each character starts off with random stats. These can change through time, through getting older, choices made in events and traits gained lost. Each player is considered part of the family tree of his Dukedom, and could potentially become Duke were something to happen to the current incumbent...

[johnhughthom]

Good to see your reading the rules Double A, fixed. Having the biggest nose in CK is quite an achievement.

[Skullheadhq]

Dutchy of Dublin still open?

[Romanic]

I'm lost - On the map there's no Ulster, Munster etc.. Where are the kingdoms located? :embarassed:

[johnhughthom]

Ulster - top right.
Leinster - bottom right.
Connaught - top left.
Munster - bottom left.

[Romanic]

Gameplay:

Each turn will be 48 hours, this will represent one game year. Each realm will have a Quicktopic to decide on how to proceed that year, all orders need to be made through the QT. PMs will only be used for individual's orders.
Also, I have no idea what kind of orders are expected of us, and my QT looks rather dead except for Skooma who's as clueless as I am about this game.

I'm expecting many kind of actions such as : Diplomacy, increase/decrease manpower, covert operations, technology fundings, farming etc... but there's no real list of action that can be taken and most of the things in the OP are rather vague (perhaps because I've never played Crusader Kings).

[Romanic]

Ulster - top right.
Leinster - bottom right.
Connaught - top left.
Munster - bottom left.

That's not really helping me! :laugh4:

I thought the kingdom borders would be the red lines on the map, but in this case there would be more than 4. I think it would be simpler if you could list every provinces owned by each kingdom. :P

Edit: LOL the OP is already listing this. :embarassed:. Forget my stupid request.

[johnhughthom]

I think it would be simpler if you could list every provinces owned by each kingdom. :P

You mean like I did in the op?

[johnhughthom]

Dutchy of Dublin still open?


Yep, just approach the Duke of Leinster, Diamondeye, to join.

[Romanic]

JHT, have you missed this post? :smug2:


Also, I have no idea what kind of orders are expected of us, and my QT looks rather dead except for Skooma who's as clueless as I am about this game.

I'm expecting many kind of actions such as : Diplomacy, increase/decrease manpower, covert operations, technology fundings, farming etc... but there's no real list of action that can be taken and most of the things in the OP are rather vague (perhaps because I've never played Crusader Kings).

e.g. Can we have a defined list of actions, or some guideline for what we should be doing?

[johnhughthom]

Diplomacy = marriage alliances.
Manpower changes mainly through events.
Covert operations = The Spymaster can give me spying/assassination type orders, I'll leave the details up to you. Each attempt will have to be paid for, the Spymaster chooses how much to spend on an operation. This will determine outcome, as will Spymaster stats.
Farming increases mainly through events, you can choose to focus on Farming or Military tech.

If you haven't played CK before you probably won't realise how much the game revolves around random events, and your choice of how to approach them. This phase is mainly an introduction for the members of each Dukedom to get to know each other. All I really need from each Dukedom is a list of Offices/title holders, whether to offer Jolt lands/money towards a Cathedral, how to approach the tourney, whether to focus on Farming/Military and any Spymaster efforts for thids phase. Next phase each faction will have at least one event to react to, and a number of individuals will also have decisions to make.

[B-Wing]

For those who could use a map with the Duchies' boundaries shown, here's one I whipped up based on JHT's original.

https://img577.imageshack.us/img577/8364/ckireland.jpg
Yellow = Ulster
White = Connaught
Blue = Munster
Green = Leinster

[Romanic]

Thanks B_Ray!

Who's holding Mide, in the center?

[B-Wing]

It's NPC controlled. Not for long, though...

[Double A]

I think it'd look nicer in a bright yellow.

[johnhughthom]

Much obliged B_Ray. :bow:


edit: a few people have posted expressing interest in playing, not sure if they have approached any of you yet, but I would recommend trying to get another player so the Duke isn't doing two jobs at once. Anybody who's played CK will know how easy it is to get stressed...

[Skullheadhq]

Sent a request. This is going to be so much fun.

[Diamondeye]

((I'm fine with SkullheadHQ joining Leinster, but before reassigning anything, I'd like you to generate his stats and tell them in our QT :bow:))

[Jolt]

((I'm fine with SkullheadHQ joining Leinster, but before reassigning anything, I'd like you to generate his stats and tell them in our QT :bow:))

So, are the rulers of this land so devoid of faith that they do not approach the Holy Church with any pious offerings? Phreaps it's time to make a report to the Holy Father and the King of England to bring the Holy Faith into this island...

[autolycus]

Bishop Jolt, Connaught will be making a substantial donation to the Cathedral construction fund. Duke Kagemusha and I are hammering out the details as we speak.

[johnhughthom]

So, are the rulers of this land so devoid of faith that they do not approach the Holy Church with any pious offerings? Phreaps it's time to make a report to the Holy Father and the King of England to bring the Holy Faith into this island...

Ulster have offered you a County and 60 gold towards your Cathedral, sorry I thought they'd already contacted you.


((I'm fine with SkullheadHQ joining Leinster, but before reassigning anything, I'd like you to generate his stats and tell them in our QT :bow:))

Doing it now.

[Jolt]

Bishop Jolt, Connaught will be making a substantial donation to the Cathedral construction fund. Duke Kagemusha and I are hammering out the details as we speak.

Ah very well, do your planning and then send me a proposal. I shall see which city is worthy of having direct control of God.

[A_Dane]

oh dear, completely missed this has started, but been preparing for an exam anyway.. Regardless, after tomorrow I shall join this for real :D

[Diamondeye]

So, are the rulers of this land so devoid of faith that they do not approach the Holy Church with any pious offerings? Phreaps it's time to make a report to the Holy Father and the King of England to bring the Holy Faith into this island...

We of Leinster have already sent word that should you require it, We will grant you a Duchy for your seat. If you chose to accept Our proposal instead of that of others, we would install you in Osraige.

I am afraid that with the upcoming tourney, we lack the funds to be truly lavish when it comes to your Cathedral. We cannot outbid - or even match - the Ulster offers. We await your decision, Your Grace.

[johnhughthom]

A couple of factions still haven't quite decided everything, I'll extend for another day to let you all get to grips with the game.

[Ignoramus]

Got any room for an Ignoramus?

[johnhughthom]

Got any room for an Ignoramus?

Indeed, Ulster or Munster could do with another player. Just contact the Duke of the faction you want to join, issaikhaan or Centurion1.

[Skullheadhq]

Time to don my armor and shine my sword! The marshal of Leinster has arrived!

[johnhughthom]

1070


https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/magdalenkinghall5.jpg


Dublin, Ireland.

The seat of Duke Diamondeye of Leinster was the scene of a great tournament, bringing all the Lords of Ireland together for feasting, jousting and diplomatic discussions. The tourney took place over a number of days, winning would involve defeating at least three other Lords. The two newest Lords sat it out, Skullheadq and robbiecon would have to wait until next year for their shot at glory. Bishop Jolt watched with an ironic smile on his face, jousting would mean nothing when these men faced their God, let's hope they remembered that when he asked for lands to build his cathedral.


https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/images-9.jpg

First up was B_Ray vs Double A. It was clear from the start that it was a one sided match and it took only one run for B_Ray to knock Double A flying and go through to the next round. The match following was just as one sided as The Celtic Viking easily defeated Ibn-Khaldun. The next duel saw the first Duke to compete as khaan faced Skooma Addict, the third consecutive match to only need one run saw the Duke safely through. Duke Diamondeye was in the next match against A_Dane, the crowd looked bored, expecting another easy victory, and for A_Dane to let his Duke win. They were wrong, in a very close contest that took four runs A_Dane knocked his Duke off to qualify for the second round, quite the shock for everybody. The next match was just as close, seeing Romanic defeat autolycus in the fourth run.

The third Duke to compete was next, Kagemusha versus Beefy and the simple victories of earlier were emulated as Duke Kagemusha won on the first run. The final Duke, Centurion, took the field against Beskar, with another quick Duchal victory. The final first round match saw God Emperor take on TheLastDays, this was the closest match of the day, God Emperor winning in the fifth run.


https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/medieval-banquet.jpg

As day one ended, Bishop Jolt took his chance to ask the Dukes present for lands and money for God, to enable him to build a Cathedral in Ireland. A rousing speech was made, and many of the lesser nobles cheered, there was less happiness among most of the Dukes, only Duke khaan of Ulster offering lands, the County of Tir Connail plus 60 gold to build the Cathedral. Duke Diamondeye offered 15 gold, Duke Centurion 10. Jolt sat impassive, waiting for an offer from Kagemusha. When nothing was forthcoming he rose and said, "Thank you my Lords, I will go and pray to the Lord and ask him what I should do."

As day dawned on the second day of the tourney the eight competitors all seemed confident of victory, first up was B_Ray against TCV, two of the most impressive performers yesterday. It was a classic battle and would have been a worthy final match, one of them had to go however, and on the ninth run B-Ray was unseated to a great roar and The Celtic Viking took his place in the last four. Next up was Duke khaan against the hero of yesterday, A_Dane, surely he couldn't defeat another Duke? It seemed that God was smiling upon A_Dane and he unseated his second Duke of the tournament in the fourth run to a roar even greater than that which greeted The Celtic Viking's win. Duke Kagemusha was next, against Romanic. There was to be no upset here however, and Romanic came off his horse in the second run. The last match of the day saw Duke Centurion take on God Emperor, the Duke took the victory in the seventh run for another close victory.

There seemed to be distrust in the air during the second night of feasting, this was usually a time of intrigue and diplomacy. This year however no daughters or sons were married off, no secret letters passed between agents of court. Well none that were seen anyway.

Day three of the joust dawned bright and clear. This was turning into a success for Duke Diamondeye, he had spent a modest sum, but the excitement of the jousting made up for that. The first semi final saw the tournament favourite up against the surprise package, The Celtic Viking facing A_Dane. If TCV was under pressure he didn't show it, it only took one run for him to throw A_Dane off his horse, the Leinster man took a fierce blow and lay still after coming off. As the crowd held their breath he got up after a few minutes, holding his ribs in pain. The battle to determine who would face TCV in the final was between two Dukes, Centurion and Kagemusha. Duke Kagemusha knocked Centurion off his horse in the third run to reach the final. The final saw The Celtic Viking eager to avenge his Duke's defeat in the semi final, he hadn't face a Duke yet in the tourney but was confident of victory, Kagemusha had eased into the final with no real problems, it was sure to be a great contest. It didn't disappoint, going to an amazing eleven runs before one man could defeat the other. The Celtic Viking was the eventual winner, unseating the Duke with a powerful blow. The crowd rose to acclaim their victor, he may not have been a Leinster man, but it was a terrific performance.

The final nights feasting was a raucous affair, with the Munster contingent cheering their victor constantly and the Leinster men cheering their unlikely hero A_Dane, who defeated two Dukes, even if he did receive an injury in the process.

End of phase one

Each Dukedom has now chosen their Chancellors, if you would like to do any diplomacy approach the relevant Chancellor.

Ulster: Ibn-Khaldun.
Connaught: autolycus.
Leinster: God Emperor.
Munster: Romanic.

I'll do each Dukedom and individuals results and events over the next 24 hours, there's quite a bit to it, most will be in the QTs but a few people will get individual pms. Phase two will begin when it is all done.

[B-Wing]

Woohoo! So, we're all agreed to pursue Cultural Victory through independent agricultural and technological advances, right?

[Romanic]

:charge:

Hip hip hooray for TCV, the best knight around! :applause::applause::applause:

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Wait a minute! What is that I read? TCV easily defeated me! That is absurd. I was trying to do a backflip to impress the women but my horse kept running forward. So, it only looked like I fell. I demand a rematch! :tongue:

[A_Dane]

Yeah, Dukes get beaten down by the underdog. Fear me! XD

[TheLastDays]

Now I wonder if it was with his duke's consent that he fought with full strength against him

[Diamondeye]

Now I wonder if it was with his duke's consent that he fought with full strength against him

Absolutely. A tourney is no fun if the victor is given in advance. I sought to make this a fair sport, and I think it has been proven so.

[TheLastDays]

nevermind...

[B-Wing]

I think TheCelticViking should be tested for performance enhancing drugs. Regardless, I'm proud of my Duke's performance, making it all the way to final match! Hip hip hurray for Kagemusha!

[Kagemusha]

Congratulations for The Celtic Viking. I am sure any Duke would be proud to have a man of your caliber as his retainer.

[Double A]

-wrong thread-

[johnhughthom]

1071

Phase 2 begins.

One man was noticable in his absence from the tourney, and on their seperate ways home news reached the four Dukes of the death of the Count of Mide. He left no male heir, only a fourteen year old daughter. The County was ripe for the picking, with no legitimate heir no claim was needed to take it with force. There was little to fear from the former Count's forces, they would likely accept a strong Duke as their overlord. Who would be strong enough to take Mide from the grasp of the other three Dukes?

48 hours for discussion and orders, the QTs have been updated with phase one results and phase two events.

Had any of the Spymasters sent a spy into Mide they would have been forewarned of the Duke's illness and could have offered a marriage alliance, therefore inheriting the County without fighting for it.

[God Emperor]

'Twas a good match noble Duke Centurion.. But as you can clearly see I am a most keen fighter, although age might have claimed much of my old strength. I bow to you :bow:'

The high Duke Diamondeye of Leister, is most happy to see that so many of the fiefdoms helped spreading the word of God... Though it appears that some *adding a small sigh while looking at Kagemusha* did not wish to see the will of God, touch these beautiful lands..

[Kagemusha]

Duke of Connaught return´s a light hearted smile towards the Leinster Vassal and speaks:

"It is indeed worrysome news that the Duke of Mide has passed away. Knowing you all for long my fellow Dukes.I think we are like flock of Falcons smelling prey, but how about if i would offer thee another kind of solution to the problems with Mide?
Instead of us all rushing into those lands in order to gain more to our lands.Did we just not have splendid joust in Leinster, where men fought and some better then others. How about instead of some of us conquering lands of Mide. We appoint the strongest knight in all our lands as new Duke of Mide? I am talking about TCV of Munster. Who would be a better man to protect the integrity of Mide? I think we should accept this strong knight as one of Ireland´s Duke´s. What say thee?"

[A_Dane]

But that would be willingly strengthening Munster? I'm not too sure alot of people would do that..

[Kagemusha]

Duke of Connaught turns towards the speaker and replies:

"We are not talking here about giving Mide to Munster, but making TCV a Duke. Like the Duke that held Mide before him. He would be not a liege of Munster or anyone else, but an independent Duke of Mide."

[A_Dane]

Mide was a county, not a dukedome, and hence it would fall under Connaught.

[Kagemusha]

Here is what the news concerning the Mide said:

"One man was noticable in his absence from the tourney, and on their seperate ways home news reached the four Dukes of the death of the Count of Mide. He left no male heir, only a fourteen year old daughter. The County was ripe for the picking, with no legitimate heir no claim was needed to take it with force. There was little to fear from the former Dukes forces, they would likely accept a strong Duke as their overlord."

In the end it says that: "There was little to fear from former Duke´s forces."
To me it seems that, yes. Mide is a single County, but a single county ruled by A Duke. Of course the scribes can enlighten us if i am wrong about the title of the last Lord of Mide, as far as i know he did not serve any of the other Duke´s of Ireland.Thus he was independent. So I would propose to have an indpendent Duke to continue ruling his land and i cant think of a better man then the one i proposed.

[B-Wing]

I think we will have to get THC's input about this proposal. I doubt the nobles of Mide will willingly agree to be put under the rule of an outsider just because the other dukes like the idea. I'm almost certain they will have to be subdued, and a ruler installed by force.

[Kagemusha]

Yes. That is why i talked about the scribes and their wisdom. ;) After all in absence of King the Duke´s have to try and govern the land and unamous decisions are less likely to result into a country wide war over a single county.

[A_Dane]

he would still, for all intents and purposes, be the duke of connaughts slave, in order to avoid being eaten by one of us...

[The Celtic Viking]

"I thank you all for your kind words. It was an honour to participate in the tournament, and I thank the almighty God for smiling upon me that day. Thank you all!"

TCV throws a glint towards Ibn-Khaldun.

"And a special thanks for the horsebreeders of Ulster for not teaching their beasts to recognize when their masters wants to make stunts. I'm sure you will have your rematch some day, my dear Ibn-Khaldun.

Now, Kagemusha, you speak fairly and I am deeply, deeply honoured by your suggestion. I absolutely agree that a peaceful solution to this matter is the best solution, and if this means me taking over as its new Duke, I would be happy to do it should it be offered to me officially. However, I am still loyal to Centurion, and if he says no to letting me go, I will respect his will."

[autolycus]

Why would TCV be Connaught's slave? If anything I would expect him to have some residual loyalty to Munster, his former homeland. Once he, a strong adult, is on the throne of Mige, no one would be so heretical as to make war on him without a legitimate claim on the land. It is only the irregular situation of a Duke dying with no relatives except for a young daughter that has created a void liable to be filled by a general melee of arms. My duke seeks a way to avoid that bloodshed, and I support it.

[A_Dane]

Connaught because he was the one to get him in the position ? If anything, this would tie those 2 together, strengthening Connaughts situation.

But even if that's not the case, he won't be strong enough on his own, and this means he'll need to stick very closely to someone, and that would probably be either Munster or Connaught, either way, not a prefferable option for the 2 other dukedoms...

Anyways, this is my personal opinion, and it'll be up to my duke to decide..

[johnhughthom]

There is only one Dukedom that could be created, Duke of Meath. Mide and Dublin would need to be held, Leinster would have to give up Dublin. More than that, we don't have enough players to create another Dukedom, two Dukedoms don't have enough to fill all the offices as it is.

That was a typo regarding "former Duke's forces." It should have been Count.

[B-Wing]

Illuminating. I think that settles the matter then. Mide will have to be taken by force and annexed to one the 4 existing Dukedoms.

[seireikhaan]

Mide does not have to be annexed by force. Myself, the remaining dukes, and The Church can surely come to a resolution which avoids needless bloodshed.

I will declare my intention now that I feel Mide rightfully belongs to the Duke of Ulster. I alone declared myself the servant of God, recognizing that all we have is given by Him. Words are cheap, but actions attest to the true mettle of a man. We must remember that, above all, we are to seek unending glory with the Lord. This means that all rulers must exist as righteous examples for their subjects. I have shown myself to be just that. I grant the Duke of Leinster leave on this matter- he had spent much planning such a grand tournament before the matter of a home for the Lord here on our island became problematic. However, the other two dukes have no such excuse. If the Lord decides to grant the county to another, it would comfort me that it would go to Duke Diamondeye.

[Jolt]

Mide does not have to be annexed by force. Myself, the remaining dukes, and The Church can surely come to a resolution which avoids needless bloodshed.

I will declare my intention now that I feel Mide rightfully belongs to the Duke of Ulster. I alone declared myself the servant of God, recognizing that all we have is given by Him. Words are cheap, but actions attest to the true mettle of a man. We must remember that, above all, we are to seek unending glory with the Lord. This means that all rulers must exist as righteous examples for their subjects. I have shown myself to be just that. I grant the Duke of Leinster leave on this matter- he had spent much planning such a grand tournament before the matter of a home for the Lord here on our island became problematic. However, the other two dukes have no such excuse. If the Lord decides to grant the county to another, it would comfort me that it would go to Duke Diamondeye.

I agree Duke khaan. According to the law of Jus Uxoris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jure_uxoris), the Count's daughter cannot rule the lands. As the family has no male member which to inherit the land, it thus becomes without a Lord and master, it is a land without any legal proprietor, thus theoretically becoming Res Nullius (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_nullius) and ellegible to be seized by anyone who wants it. It is therefore clear that all Dukes have stakes to claim in the land and only the Holy Church, who has no outstanding interests in the county, with the exception of the protection of the children of God and the prevention of bloodshed between Catholic brothers, can intervene and mediate this dispute, so that we may find a suitable benefactor who is the most legitimate to secure the lands of Mide and its prosperity.

As noone has any legitimate claims over the land of Mide, moreover according to the principle of the Res publica christiana, which states that the surpreme ruler of every land is His Holiness the Pope, and that all land is merely delegated by God to be governed by his subjects, designated and sanctioned by the Pope, much like the feudal contracts where Kings give their own land to their vassals, the land is under the administration of the Holy Pope, and as I am his representative in this island, I have the authority to decide who will recieve the land; As there also is no way of seeing how good is a Lord to his subjects, this decision can only be made on analyzing the piousness of its ruler and his commitment to God.

[TheLastDays]

Thy last link needeth fixing...

[Diamondeye]

I know it is late I concern myself with this situation, but it is because I have been pondering this same question in private. Like the rest of you, I seek a peaceful solution to this problem. If his Grace the Cardinal and the honored Duke of Ulster agrees, I would propose the following;

I will ask the daughter of the late Count of Mide for her hand in holy matrimony, that we may be one in God's eyes. I ask of Jolt to approve this, and if it pleases his lord, to take our vows in person, thus bringing them closer to God's eyes on earth, and that much stronger. If the Church - and the Lady - agree to this, then the County shall fall within Leinster borders without bloodshed, and a crisis will have been avoided.

I would like to offer some sort of compromise to the Duke of Ulster in this situation, but I think the matter would be easier solved in private. For now, Duke Khaan, if things go as they should for the sake of peace, I would ask that you stand as my Best Man on this holy union of man and woman, but I would like to discuss these matters in greater detail.

Diamondeye,
Duke of Leinster.

[Kagemusha]

It is unfortunate that my solution is not something that could have resolved the issue. Connaught is ready to discuss in private about any suggestions the other Dukes and the Church has to deal with this situation. We are listening.

[Skullheadhq]

I know it is late I concern myself with this situation, but it is because I have been pondering this same question in private. Like the rest of you, I seek a peaceful solution to this problem. If his Grace the Cardinal and the honored Duke of Ulster agrees, I would propose the following;

I will ask the daughter of the late Count of Mide for her hand in holy matrimony, that we may be one in God's eyes. I ask of Jolt to approve this, and if it pleases his lord, to take our vows in person, thus bringing them closer to God's eyes on earth, and that much stronger. If the Church - and the Lady - agree to this, then the County shall fall within Leinster borders without bloodshed, and a crisis will have been avoided.

I would like to offer some sort of compromise to the Duke of Ulster in this situation, but I think the matter would be easier solved in private. For now, Duke Khaan, if things go as they should for the sake of peace, I would ask that you stand as my Best Man on this holy union of man and woman, but I would like to discuss these matters in greater detail.

Diamondeye,
Duke of Leinster.

A most excellent proposition! Following this peaceful way I can keep the armies at home, and I think our rivals like them better there then underneath their very city walls...

[Kagemusha]

If people want to have peaceful solution to this dilemma, some might actually think they should negotiate with the other Dukes. If Ulster and Leinster believe that they have the power to just take Mide without the concent of Connaught and Munster, they should think twice.

[Skullheadhq]

without the concent of Connaught and Munster, they should think twice.
Connaught and Munster speak with one mouth now? Interesting...

[Kagemusha]

I will not go into biggering with a Leinster vassal over this matter, maybe you should talk with your Duke before speculating further? It is just very disturbing that Ulster and Leinster seem to dividing lands without consent of other Duke´s.

[A_Dane]

Not anymore disturbing, than you proposing a solution which would put a guy favourable to Munster and Connaught in Mide...

[TheLastDays]

This being the reason that our Duke proposed this solution here, openly, before all of the Dukes, seeking their consensus instead of privately trying to settle this affair with the Duke of Munster.

[A_Dane]

I don't follow. Either way you look at it, If Leinster and Ulster agreed to your proposed solution, we'd still have weakened ourselves, and strengthened you.

[TheLastDays]

I don't agree but the matter is not in the content of the proposed solution itself, the problem lies solely in the way that at least the Duke of Leinster seems to be thinking he can decide the matter solely with the Duke of Ulster without consulting the other Dukes of Ireland.

[The Celtic Viking]

If the Duke of Connaught won't, as he puts it, 'go into biggering with a Leinster vassal' - which is entirely reasonable - then I, a mere Munster vassal shall do it instead. Yes, in this particular case, Connacht and Munster did indeed speak with one mouth. What else is to be expected when your Duke, giving an emperor's clothes pretence at seeking a peaceful resolution, tries to make a secret deal with Ulster so he can take the cake all for himself, whilst treating the Dukes of Connaught and Munster as irrelevant chumps?

Your Duke's words are belligerent and their realization in action could only work to feed the fires of war.

[Diamondeye]

If the Duke of Connaught won't, as he puts it, 'go into biggering with a Leinster vassal' - which is entirely reasonable - then I, a mere Munster vassal shall do it instead. Yes, in this particular case, Connacht and Munster did indeed speak with one mouth. What else is to be expected when your Duke, giving an emperor's clothes pretence at seeking a peaceful resolution, tries to make a secret deal with Ulster so he can take the cake all for himself, whilst treating the Dukes of Connaught and Munster as irrelevant chumps?

Your Duke's words are belligerent and their realization in action could only work to feed the fires of war.

Your talents are of more use in a joust that in the art of diplomacy, I fear. I have never intended to belittle any Duke of the land, I merely responded to the Duke of Ulster - and the Bishop - since they were the ones who initially brought up the subject.

I am very much in favor of settling this peacefully, and I would hear your Duke's suggestion as to how this be done if he has one to speak. But unless I am swayed by some argument not without weight, I intend to wed the young Lady of Mide. Surely, none can then deny my right to the County?

Diamondeye,
Duke of Leinster.

[A_Dane]

Our duke has made his mind quite clear, since all land belongs to god, the bishop should settle this. And since the bishop is appareantly part of Ulster, Ulster is the one you want to negotiate with in regards to this issue.
Now, we could try and settle it outside, but that would be an offence to the good Bishop, and hence, to god. If this is to be solved peacefully, we have to recognize the Bishops ruling, as anything else will end in war.

What you're basically asking is, that we should get your consent, to screw you over, which is not gonna happen either way, just like your Dukes outrageous proposal, would never have been accepted either.

There's one last option, which is for everyone to back off, and let Mide be with a local noble, but I doubt that's gonna happen either.

[Kagemusha]

Duke of Connaught stands up looking at the previous speaker,

"If Bishop is part of Ulster.He is no Bishop at all. Church is above Duke´s and even you proposing that Bishop is mere vassal of Ulster is insulting to both the Bishop, Holy Church and Ulster."

Duke of Connaught

[A_Dane]

Ofcourse the Bishop is not a vassal of Ulster, but the land on which he's Cathedral was/is build, is part of Ulsters domain, which naturally means he'll be based in that Duchy.

Besides, you're not really one to talk about insulting his holiness, having offered him nothing, neither gold nor land. I Think my.. unfortunate choice of words can be overlooked compared to that.

[TheLastDays]

Apparently you believe that by paying for His Holiness and offering him land you, the Duchy of Ulster, have aquired the possibility to decide for him, if he has something to decide. How pieous of you...

[Kagemusha]

Edit: Nevermind The Last Days already gave better answer then i could have.

[A_Dane]

Apparently you believe that by paying for His Holiness and offering him land you, the Duchy of Ulster, have aquired the possibility to decide for him, if he has something to decide. How pieous of you...

I'm not the Duchy of Ulster, but since his Holiness and the Duke of Ulster's opinion on the matter seemed to overlap, it would only be natural to make an offer to the good duke, who could then bring it to *his holiness

In either case, my Duke has tried to include his holiness, whilst your duke has only tried to exclude him, I fail to see how we are the bad guys here.

EDIT: It might be in the interest of all, if his holiness was to receive Mide, and Ulster gain full control of the province which his holiness build his cathedral on, as I highly doubt anyone else getting Mide, would satisfy the rest..

[Kagemusha]

Again A Dane.Dont speculate on affairs you know little about. You dont have any idea what i have offered or proposed to the Bishop.

[seireikhaan]

Duke of Connaught stands up looking at the previous speaker,

"If Bishop is part of Ulster.He is no Bishop at all. Church is above Duke´s and even you proposing that Bishop is mere vassal of Ulster is insulting to both the Bishop, Holy Church and Ulster."

Duke of Connaught
The Duke of Connaught should remember his place- alongside the rest of us, in subservience to the Lord. It would be most irresponsible of a Duke to allow his subjects to be excommunicated because of his own impertinence. Now, sir, if you feel you have another proposal to add to mine or Duke Diamondeye's, let us hear it, here in the open.

In the meantime, should an agreement between the Dukes and the Church not arise soon, I suggest that each Duke agree to a pact of protection for the Duchy of Mide. In the event that a duke should attempt to seize the county by force, the pact shall state that the rest of us shall come to its aid. I, naturally, shall sign this county first, but reserve the right of nullification should all the rest of the Dukes determine it unnecessary. Should even one other Duke agree, I shall be bound by oath to protect the Duchy of Mide from aggressors.

[Kagemusha]

To Duke of Ulster,
It is not i who called the Bishop part of your domain.So dont threaten me. In matter of fact i asked for the guidance of the Bishop in this affair and also even proposed that Mide would be given to the Church, but the Bishop did not even answer my letters. My Chancellor has also tried to contact for example Leinster in private in vain. No decent reply of any kind have been give n by them. Same applies with Ulster.

In this light i cant but laugh at your latest proposal.You together with Leinster have made an agreement over the fate of Mide in private and now you want us and Munster to protect your agreement, while we have been left out even from negotiations. While one of you forces marriage to the poor daughter of Mide.I am sorry but do you take us a fool?
In this scheming atmosphere provided by Ulster and Leinster. I Duke of Connaught will offer my hand in marriage to daughter of Mide and promise to protect her lands from anyone trying to take them with force. I am man of peace, but such exploitation Ulster and Leinster are planning cant be tolerated. Thus i am going to protect my dead neighbours integrity by marrying his daughter. Let the Mide daughter decide whom to marry. Is that enough for you gentlemen?

[A_Dane]

Again A Dane.Dont speculate on affairs you know little about. You dont have any idea what i have offered or proposed to the Bishop.

You offered neither gold nor land to the good bishop in the first place, atleast not in public, and nothing was announced at the fair, so it's perfectly reasonable to conclude you've offered nothing.

In regards to your latest responses, now you've suddenly proposed to give the good bishop the land in private? Very noble in theory, but since you've not said so in public, it sounds highly suspecious...

[Beskar]

The bishop is a wise and honorable man, he should be able to clear up any misgivings.

I think we should defer to his Holiness's judgement on this matter.

[seireikhaan]

You presume quite a lot, Duke of Connaught. First, the Bishop is not of my domain. I collect no taxes from the land, and the soldiers I cannot conscript. Further, myself and Duke Diamondeye have made no secret agreements behind closed doors. All that has been discussed has been in the public forum for all. My proposal to protect Mide from aggressors was just that- in the event we and the Church could not agree to a timely conclusion to this matter. Thus, we could prevent an unnecessary violent resolution to the matter. But if you wish to see it through the lens of conspiracy, I suppose that is your right, even if misguided. However, I fail to see how your offer to the Duke's daughter is, frankly, in any way different than from Duke Diamondeye's. You both have offered your hand to the young lady, even though she lacks any right of inheritance. Does that not make you equally scheming?

[Kagemusha]

You offered neither gold nor land to the good bishop in the first place, atleast not in public, and nothing was announced at the fair, so it's perfectly reasonable to conclude you've offered nothing.

In regards to your latest responses, now you've suddenly proposed to give the good bishop the land in private? Very noble in theory, but since you've not said so in public, it sounds highly suspecious...

Yes i did not give Bishop gold for the construction of Church, but you dont know anything i have done after that. Ask the Bishop if you dont believe me. If you go back and read what i have said, you should start to understand that i have tried to find a solution to this situation both in Public and private but the reluctant behaviour, which is the main thing i have accused of Leinster and Ulster has cancelled all my efforts. This is exactly what i have been saying all along.

And to the Duke of Ulster.I already told you it was not i who said the Bishop is part of your domain, but the very Leinster Vassal to whom i have been trying to clarify the situation over and over again.

[A_Dane]

You say I insult the holy father, but claim you havn't.. oh well nvm, not the issue.

The Issue is, that the so-called "proposals" you've come with in public, would only strengthen yourself or Munster, while the ones you've discussed in private, would on paper be the most reasonable ones, however, you've never uttered a word about it, until after I proposed rearranging Mides lands, which I must say speak against you, considering you've done nothing, until very recently, but claim we were scheming.

EDIT: Anyways, in the interest of the peace, we should let this issue be. There's no way to settle this in a satisfactory way, without either Ulster getting it (hence getting back to 3 provinces), or his holiness swapping mide for the previously given county. Anything else would strengthen one dukedom over the others, which none will be able to agree to, and since I'm sure no one wants a war now, his holiness might be persuaded to swap counties, provided all the dukes can agree?

[Kagemusha]

Duke of Connaught glances for a long time towards the Leinster vassal, breaths slowly and says:

"It was days a go when i proposed things to the Bishop, not after your muttering today. My first proposal was to create a independent Duchy for Mide, which was impossible to achive. Second i tried to find council from Church, while my letters were not even answered after repeated pleas to the Bishop. After that i tried to open private negotiations with the forementioned Duke´s, to no avail. Why this was the case? Because these Lords with their all wits decided to leave me and Munster out from the decision making. Last now that all my efforts have gone in vain. I am tired of negotiating, so i will do what i can to protect the integrity of my neighbour, from the scheming of forementioned Dukes. Nothing more, nothing less."

After a pause.Duke continues.

"And one last thing.The Holy father you mention, is the Pope. Just so you know."

[Skullheadhq]

Duke of Connaught glances for a long time towards the Leinster vassal, breaths slowly and says:

"It was days a go when i proposed things to the Bishop, not after your muttering today. My first proposal was to create a independent Duchy for Mide, which was impossible to achive. Second i tried to find council from Church, while my letters were not even answered after repeated pleas to the Bishop. After that i tried to open private negotiations with the forementioned Duke´s, to no avail. Why this was the case? Because these Lords with their all wits decided to leave me and Munster out from the decision making. Last now that all my efforts have gone in vain. I am tired of negotiating, so i will do what i can to protect the integrity of my neighbour, from the scheming of forementioned Dukes. Nothing more, nothing less."

After a pause.Duke continues.

"And one last thing.The Holy father you mention, is the Pope. Just so you know."

So, if anyone touches Mide, it's war?

[A_Dane]

Duke of Connaught glances for a long time towards the Leinster vassal, breaths slowly and says:

"It was days a go when i proposed things to the Bishop, not after your muttering today. My first proposal was to create a independent Duchy for Mide, which was impossible to achive. Second i tried to find council from Church, while my letters were not even answered after repeated pleas to the Bishop. After that i tried to open private negotiations with the forementioned Duke´s, to no avail. Why this was the case? Because these Lords with their all wits decided to leave me and Munster out from the decision making. Last now that all my efforts have gone in vain. I am tired of negotiating, so i will do what i can to protect the integrity of my neighbour, from the scheming of forementioned Dukes. Nothing more, nothing less."

After a pause.Duke continues.

"And one last thing.The Holy father you mention, is the Pope. Just so you know."

Your insolence knows no boundaries, and neither does your apparant arrogance, I'm sure you'll roast in hell, good sir.

[TheLastDays]

Count A_Dane you should learn to control your temper and your tongue before I cut it from your mouth for insulting my liege.

[A_Dane]

Your liege should seek counciling on proper conduct.

[Skullheadhq]

Your liege should seek counciling on proper conduct.

I can wholeheartedly second this, making empty threats is unchristian, wait till the pope heas about this!

[Kagemusha]

Duke of Connaught has hard time trying to control himself from not bursting into a laughter:

"So now i am to blame for our Leinster vassal first mistaking our Bishop from Ulster Vassal and after that mistaking our Bishop from the Pope, who is The Holy Father. I am sorry but i have to take a small break from these negotiations if you will gentlemen."

[A_Dane]

EDIT: This sounded ruder than it should have, Sorry for that Kage.

Actually, after talking to Kage, I realise this was my bad temper talking, I'll stick through with this, as it would be bad manners otherwise. (though I think my former shrink might consider this a bad decision).

Sorry for any inconvenience I have caused, I shall try to restrain my self in the future.

[autolycus]

I can whoreheartedly second this, making empty threats is unchristian, wait till the pope heas about this!

So, Skullhead, you have the heart of a whore, do you? Most men would not have the gall to admit that and then call another man's words unchristian.

[Kagemusha]

EDIT: This sounded ruder than it should have, Sorry for that Kage.

Actually, after talking to Kage, I realise this was my bad temper talking, I'll stick through with this, as it would be bad manners otherwise. (though I think my former shrink might consider this a bad decision).

Sorry for any inconvenience I have caused, I shall try to restrain my self in the future.

No problems. This is just a game and we are all playing characters.:bow:

[A_Dane]

Yeah ofcourse, but I failed big time there.. Geeze.. thought i was past such things s:

EDIT: Anyways, offtopic chat aside, I stand by my earlier proposal of HIS HOLINESS, THE GOOD BISHOP, E.G. NOT THE POPE HIMSELF, getting Mide, but giving his earlier aquired province back to Ulster, so we can keep the fragile balance.

[Skullheadhq]

So, Skullhead, you have the heart of a whore, do you? Most men would not have the gall to admit that and then call another man's words unchristian.

This made me ROFL. Sorry for the typo ;)

[A_Dane]

Didn't even notice it :p although that was the most amusing typo (besides my own mingling of holiness and holy father ofcourse), I've seen in a while :)

[seireikhaan]

To the Duke of Connaught:

You should substantiate your claim of private contacts. Until you do, you are barking. I have received no missives from your duchy. Now, again, by what right do you demand the lands of Mide? You have done nothing but attempt to mislead other lords and vassals while attempting to increase your domain. You have served as no proper example to your subjects, and thus, you do not deserve support for your claim.

[Skullheadhq]

No, this is the proper map:
https://img844.imageshack.us/img844/8364/ckireland.jpg

[TheLastDays]

It is outrageous to bring something like this before us. By what right does the Duchy of Leinster claim Mide? If there is no right for the Dukes of this island than it certainly can't just fall into your hands or do you need a place to be declared as count?

[autolycus]

johnhughthom, when you do the next update, can you mark the chancellors in the opening post, so that we don't have to keep tracking down that post when figuring out who to contact in the other duchies.

[Diamondeye]

It is outrageous to bring something like this before us. By what right does the Duchy of Leinster claim Mide? If there is no right for the Dukes of this island than it certainly can't just fall into your hands or do you need a place to be declared as count?

If you would listen to the words I have spoken, I do not intend to claim Mide in any other way than by the path of marriage. All this talk and these threats of war are as stupid as they are barbaric. I would ask my retainers to rein themselves in before they insult any of my fellow dukes. I apologize sincerely if this has already been done, Duke Kagemusha. It seems that like the tourney winner, my marshall too thinks more than is well of war and jousts and not of the purpose that God had created us with; to exist in his image.

[TheLastDays]

Duke Diamondeye, what I said was not said to attack you but to adress one of your vassals who seems to think that the fate of Mide has already been decided.

[johnhughthom]

It seems a few Duchys haven't quite decided to proceed, I'll extend the phase 24 hours to give more time.

[Jolt]

Thank you for the extension honorable God, for I, your faithful bishop, had been busy as of late ((RL busy)).

As I mentioned. No Duke has a direct claim to the lands of Mide. As also mentioned the fief is under the nominal authority of the Pope, and by delegation, of me. As I also mention, the best way to settle this dispute cordially is to verify who is the most pious of all Dukes, and in return for his devotion to the God and to the Holy Father, I may relinquish the lands of Mide in the name of the Pope and entrust it to the care of one Duke.

[Kagemusha]

Your Grace,
Have you considered a possibility of Mide becoming a Church County? I know that in mainland the Church is holding large estates in order to gain wealth for all the God´s good work it is doing helping the poor, sickly and less fortuned ones?

Duke of Connaught

[Jolt]

Your Grace,
Have you considered a possibility of Mide becoming a Church County? I know that in mainland the Church is holding large estates in order to gain wealth for all the God´s good work it is doing helping the poor, sickly and less fortuned ones?

Duke of Connaught

We had slightly considered that possibility, your lordship Duke of Connaught, but we never gave it much thought. For the lands of Mide are as much the lands of God as they are of the folks of the island. As such, if that is the consensus of the Dukes that the lands of Mide should come to be ruled directly by the Holy Church in the name of the Pope, then we will look with brim and joy to see that the rulers of this fair island are indeed caring to see a strong and just Church that evenly settles the disputes of the island and looks after its people, the lambs of God.

I will excuse myself from making any early remarks or give my support towards such a possibility without the approval of the faithful Dukes of Ireland, as I am only here as a mediator and not as a claimant for the lands.

[Diamondeye]

While it is an honourable thought to put Mide under the inspired leadership of the Church, I fear it may have several risks involved. First of all, while I understand and agree the need of a County dedicated to the Holy Father, extending his dominion on this earth would perhaps make those weak in their faith think that ruling on Earth is better than ruling the Heavens above. And I am sadly of the impression after the already heated debate that it would also cause some men of less devout spirit to look to his lands with greed and envy in their eyes. It is known that a good Christian leads not his fellow man into sin willfullly.

We hope to solve this in the way already put forth, but if it come to that, it is of course better for God to rule Mide in peace than man to rule it war.

[Kagemusha]

I have all the faith in God´s representative in these lands to Govern land just as well as attend to the souls of sinners. I feel i have spoken so much as of late that i would like to listen now what the Duke´s of Ulster and Munster have to say concerning this proposal.

Duke of Connaught

[A_Dane]

Since I am partly to blame for the bad taste in everybodys mouth, and for talking out of my place, I offer Duke Kage my most sincerest apology, It was not my place to interfere.

[Romanic]

Munster is recruiting!

It seems we have an inactive player and he sadly happened to be our Duke, so should anyone like to join this game, you might want to consider us, as you would have a shot at becoming Duke. :beam:

[Yeah, that's kinda bad roleplay isn't it ? :smug2:]

[Romanic]

Personally I thought that Duke Kagemusha's idea, of granting Mide to the tournament winner, Lord TCV, was a respectable idea, given the circumstances. If one deserves a new land, it's this brave warrior, as he currently holds no title in Munster.

[seireikhaan]

I will grant my support for the granting of Mide to the Church. The Lord and his delegates will surely a better caretaker of the flock than another Duke. Mide as a battlefield between contesting dukes would be a disaster that would befall many neighboring provinces. May the Church serve as a bastion of stability and support.

[johnhughthom]

Munster is recruiting!

It seems we have an inactive player and he sadly happened to be our Duke, so should anyone like to join this game, you might want to consider us, as you would have a shot at becoming Duke. :beam:

[Yeah, that's kinda bad roleplay isn't it ? :smug2:]

Cent pmed me to let me know he's beeon on holiday and will be back tomorrow.

[Skooma Addict]

Personally I thought that Duke Kagemusha's idea, of granting Mide to the tournament winner, Lord TCV, was a respectable idea, given the circumstances. If one deserves a new land, it's this brave warrior, as he currently holds no title in Munster.

I second this. Our Knight bested all put before him, and it is most unfortunate he is without proper holdings befitting of such a Lord. However, I would be overjoyed if these lands were to be trusted to our welcomed visitor who traveled so far, and so long, to bless our lands in these troubled times.

[A_Dane]

While TVC's achievements were indeed most aweinspireing, it must be his own liege's "duty" to grant him land..?

[TheLastDays]

I personally support the idea of giving Mide to the church, it is probably the best for the inhabitants of the county as they would certainly be the ones to suffer, should war over their land break out. We will have to wait on the word of my Duke Kagemusha and the Dukes of Leinster and Munster of course.

[Diamondeye]

I have already spoken on that topic, in great length no less. It is a better solution than openly competing to win the county, but if it could be settled peacefully between the Dukes, I would rather that. God's reign is in Heaven, and Man's is on earth, and I would not burden the Church unnecesarily with a piece of land that seems to bring more trouble and envy than blessings with it.

[Skullheadhq]

I have already spoken on that topic, in great length no less. It is a better solution than openly competing to win the county, but if it could be settled peacefully between the Dukes, I would rather that. God's reign is in Heaven, and Man's is on earth, and I would not burden the Church unnecesarily with a piece of land that seems to bring more trouble and envy than blessings with it.

Excuse me, my liege, but the Donatio Constantini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatio_Constantini) states that all of the West belongs to the pope and the bishop is above worldly rulers. And we wouldn't want problems with the church, now do we?

[TheLastDays]

I don't think envy will be the problem. No man with any love of God, even less a nobleman would dare to openly ride to war against the church, therefore I think under the rulership of the church the people of Mide have the best hope for peace.

[Kagemusha]

Duke of Connaught speaks:

"It warms my heart that we seem to be arriving into almost single minded decision over this matter. I thank you Munster vassals for noticing merit in my earlier suggestion of giving Mide to the strongest knight among us, but unfortunately like it was discussed two days a go. That cant be done. Still if it wont be the strongest martially of us to protect the Mide. Then so it should be the strongest in Lord.

Thus i will make it clear that Connaught will support adding Mide to the Church holdings and our Good Bishop should rule it as ecclestial County. In order to further help the Church. Connaught will give 30 gold from our funds, so a house of Lord can be erected at Mide.

I urge every Lord here to swear to protect Mide from anyone who might try to wrestle the County away from Church. Leinster. You said earlier that if your proposal will not gain support.You will support this one as second best. Now that others have supported for Mide to go the Church, will you do so also?"

[Skooma Addict]

Excuse me, my liege, but the Donatio Constantini (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donatio_Constantini) states that all of the West belongs to the pope and the bishop is above worldly rulers. And we wouldn't want problems with the church, now do we?

*Gives a disapproving scowl*

Someone needs to mind their tone.

[Skullheadhq]

*Gives a disapproving scowl*

Someone needs to mind their tone.

Interesting, duke of what?

[Skooma Addict]

*Folds his arms, looks towards the ground and gives a light chuckle*

[Kagemusha]

Gentlemen! The hour is late and still no answer from Leinster! Should we think that we cant reach an concensus in this issue or can we?

[Diamondeye]

Leinster will be content with the rule of the Church in Mide if that is how things end up. I have exchanged letters with Cardinal Jolt and I am currently awaiting his reply which might clarify my and his position on this issue. Until then I cannot provide a more enlightening answer.

[Kagemusha]

Thank you for your answer Duke of Leinster. It is enough for Connaught.

[johnhughthom]

I've been asked about another extension, so I'll extend 36 hours, I'll not be able to do a write up tomorrow so it'll be Thursday. I'll accept orders until I officially end the phase.

[Beefy187]

:curtain:
(Sorry for being away. Am here now)

[johnhughthom]

Phase over, there's quite a bit to get through for this phase so it may take a while.

[johnhughthom]

1071

1071 in Ireland saw the four Duchies endlessly debate how to handle the problem of Mide, the independent County in a strategical important position in the centre of the island. The previous Count had died with no heir, despite much discussion only Leinster mad an official proclamation on how the County would be ruled, saying it should go to Bishop Jolt. Unfortunately with no army, Jolt was in position to move into the County. It seemed the problem of Mide would continue into 1072, bandits had already infested the County, it had previously been one of the most prosperous in Ireland, it was fast falling to lawlessness and banditry.

End of phase two

I'll do each Dukedom and individuals results and events over the next 24 hours, there's quite a bit to it, most will be in the QTs but a few people will get individual pms. Phase two will begin when it is all done.

Another tourney will be held next year, in Munster.

Chancellors:

Ulster: Ibn-Khaldun.
Connaught: autolycus.
Leinster: God Emperor.
Munster: Romanic.

[Kagemusha]

It is disturbing that us , rulers of these lands cant make a decisions amongst ourselves. I admit that i am just as to blame as any man here, but can we please now make a decision over Mide. I propose that Mide will go to the Church and each Duke will send 300 men to take it for the Church, maybe Ulster shoudl send 200 because how much they have given to the Church as of late? Can we agree on this? If so. I propose for the tornament winner to lead them so we dont get into a fight who should lead the army.Would this be acceptable?

[Double A]

I was under the impression that giving the church two counties would make some priests more susceptible to the Devil's corruption?

[Kagemusha]

Duke of Connaught buries his head inside his palms.

[johnhughthom]

All QTs updated and pms sent. Phase 3 begins, tourney will be held in Munster, so Munster needs to decide how much to spend. Each Dukedom also needs to decide whether to help Duke to win, or fight fairly.

Two men arrive in Ireland, looking for employment. One is a armoursmith from Naples, the other a lance instructor from Seville. If anybody would like to employ them offer a salary with your orders, the highest bids will get their man.


Phase 3 begins, 48 hours for orders.

[Double A]

Hey, I didn't say it first.

[B-Wing]

Seems like this turn should be over right about now. Still waiting on decisions from certain dukes, JHT?

[johnhughthom]

Few hours to go yet, I'm still waiting on concrete decisions from two Dukedoms.

[johnhughthom]

I had hoped to get everything in tonight and get the write up done immediately but two Dukes haven't posted in their QTs and Centurion's replacement Duke hasn't quite been decided. Results normally take 24 hours, so I'll leave it open and accept orders for another 24 hours and do the writeup right away. So it's not really another extension... I'm guessing it's because of the weekend, might be an idea to have longer phases over the weekend in future.

[Kagemusha]

I must state that i am very disappointed of the lack of effort of the other Duke´s to settle this issue publically. Connaught is very concerned that our neighbouring county has essentially fallen into anarchy and we cant accept that state of affairs to spread into our counties.

[Diamondeye]

I must state that i am very disappointed of the lack of effort of the other Duke´s to settle this issue publically. Connaught is very concerned that our neighbouring county has essentially fallen into anarchy and we cant accept that state of affairs to spread into our counties.

We have the impression that the Church will take Mide under their wings, including the problem of actually bringing in the County. We continue to support the Church through funding, though.

[Kagemusha]

It would be helpful if the Church were to actually say publically something. The problem is that my neighbouring county is at chaos and i cant have that spreading to my lands, so if no one else will help me.Im going to pacify Mide myself.

[johnhughthom]

One hour for orders.

[Beskar]

It would be helpful if the Church were to actually say publically something. The problem is that my neighbouring county is at chaos and i cant have that spreading to my lands, so if no one else will help me.Im going to pacify Mide myself.

I wouldn't be so hasty on being so dismissive of his holiness. He does have the authority of the Pope on his side.

I will give you some information, I believe a Papal army will be entering the province in the name of the church. You might not want to send your forces in and get confused for the enemy. Though if you insist, I suggest making clear your intentions on handling the province to the church.

[Kagemusha]

I have informed his Grace about my intentions. I am not dismissive towards him in any way.I also cant be dismissive towards trouble spreading to my counties either. I dont think any of you can blame me for not trying to settle this issue or can you?

This is something i think would have been nice to know bit earlier. I cant comprehend why the bishop did not tell us about it. Was it not me who originally proposed to give Mide to church and now i am not even being told about an army supposed to march into Mide.Very strange i must say.

[Kagemusha]

As we only have a single Ulster vassal telling us that there is a Church army marching to Mide. We are forced in this uncertain situation to move in as well. Not for our own bidding, but to make sure that the lawlessness will end at Mide.

[johnhughthom]

Round over. I'll get on to the write up and results after Rory McIlroy finishes embarrassing the worlds golfers.

[Jolt]

((Since nobody warned me I had to militarily occupy the province - as such, I presumed it would simply transition from the NPC to me like any inheritance in the game of CK - I didn't bother to send troops. JHT, I would appreciate if I could be briefed on what one has to do rather than having to guess. And I have been staying with my cousins so internet is not plentily found.))

The Church is moving to restore order in the province. Furthermore, the Church's armies are supported by Ulster's Ducal armies to make sure we overwhelm the bandits and utterly dispose of them. Connaught is obviously most welcome to help the Church root out the rebels and hang them like the petty thieves they are.

Further be known, Duke Kagemusha that the Church is not very happy that you, wishing to take advantage of the chaos, decided to move in and unconsiderately besides wanting to unlawfully take control of the province, breaking the agreement you yourself put forth, that you would marry the princess without seeking permission of any religious authority. What a foul deed! I am sure that every other Lord can see through meaning behind your intervention in the lands of Mide. The Eclesiastical Congregation was originally inclined to award to a vassal of the Duke Kagemusha the hand of the maid of Mide, but now seeing your actions in the hindsight has made some of my fellow counselors weary of giving the hand of the maid to Connaught.

As such, whom is the suitable groom will be decided by the Holy Church along with the vassals of Ireland after Mide is suitably established under eclesiastical order.

[Kagemusha]

We understand if the Church might be irritated about our original plans, but we have lot to thank for the Ulster vassal Beskar who made us aware that something was actually going to happen concerning Mide. Because of his valuable information we had time to adjust our orders in a way that should not irritate your Grace. Had we actually known that your Grace was sending an army to Mide we would have supported you with troops, which we are actually going to do now also.You have to understand that leaving a county plunged into anarchy connected to all our counties would not have been an option for us, but we wellcome this new option to pacify Mide with open arms, like our actions are soon about to show.

[Diamondeye]

I reluctantly have to agree with the Duke of Connaught here; It was not public knowledge that the Church would bring Mide under its wing; I only found out in my private correspondance and was therefore late in warning my fellow Duke in this forum. I am glad that you have been able to make amends to your orders, Duke Kagemusha. As I have stated before, Leinster aims to keep Ireland a peaceful nation.

Diamondeye,
Duke of Leinster.

[johnhughthom]

1072


https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/a_day_1-1.jpg

Desmumu, Ireland.

A great tourney was to be held in the seat of Duke Csargo, the previous winner TheCelticViking was clear favourite for another victory. There was a tense air around this year's tourney with the issue of Mide's succession still to be decided, these next few days would be a distraction from the ongoing crisis.


https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/joust.jpg

The preliminary round saw two matches as TheLastDays met Beefy and I-K met Duke khaan, visibly angry at being drawn in a preliminary match. TLD won after 4 runs and khaan defeated his fellow Ulster man in the first run.

The first match in round one saw two home riders face up, defending champion TCV versus Skooma, TCV received a huge cheer from the crowd as he readied himself for what was seen as a simple victory. The two men raced toward each other and the crowd quietened, there was silence for a few seconds as one man went flying off his horse into the grass. Skooma looked as surprised as anybody else to see the defending champion lying in the grass. There was little time for the crowd to draw breath as the next riders took their place. Duke Csargo, resplendent in glorious armour, defeated autolycus on the third run, before B_Ray unseated Double A. Kagemusha was the third Duke up as he was matched against God Emperor, the Duke took an easy victory on the first run. Duke Diamondeye unseated Beskar in the sext match, to make it a clean sweep for the Dukes. Skullheadq defeated Romanic next before A_Dane defeated preliminary winner TLD and the final match saw Duke khaan face best loser autolycus with the Duke winning on the second run.

The topic of Mide was the main subject of the feasting debate that night, there was a lot of discussion on letting the County come under control of the church, no firm commitments were made however. The food and drink flowed all night, a number of defeated competitors stating they were glad to have lost so they didn't have tohold back on their drinking.

Home Duke Csargo unseated Skooma Addict in the first match, before another pairing from the same household with Duke Kage facing B_Ray, another victory for a Duke led to mutterings that the draw was fixed. A third Duke vs vassal quarter final saw much of the crowd appear to lose interest, Skullheadq's victory over Diamondeye on the third run was the match of the day however and reignited the crowd's enthusiasm. Duke khaan's victory over A_Dane was an anti-climax after the previous classic.

With three Duke's still in contention there was much banter during the second night's feasting with bets and proud boasts flying back and forth. Mide was all but forgotten as more men left the tourney and started indulging in the ale and food.

The final day dawned bright, a winner would be crowned today, a new champion. The first semi final was Duke v Duke, Csargo against Kagemusha. A close match saw Csargo reach the final on the second run, his gleaming armour had glanced a seemingly dead on blow on the first run. Next up was Skullheadq against khaan, looking to make it an all Duke final. khaan unseated Skullheadq on the third run to reach the final against Csargo.

As the two Dukes faced each other for the final match there was an excited buzz in the air, as the men of Munster cheered their new Duke, hoping for a second consecutive tourney victory. Csargo certainly looked the part in his new armour and perfectly balanced lance, three consecutive victories and it still hadn't splintered. khaan sat on his horse, quitely confident skill would defeat equipment. It wasn't quite the classic of the previous tourney, but still the match of the week, going to six runs before the Ulster Duke defeated the home Lord. There was a muted response to the victory from the Munster men, the small band from Ulster made up for it with wild celebrations.

A final nights feasting was another noisy affair, before the visiting Dukes departed for home, the question of Mide would be decided individually it would seem.

End of phase three

Chancellors:

Ulster: Ibn-Khaldun.
Connaught: autolycus.
Leinster: God Emperor.
Munster: Romanic.

I'll do each Dukedom and individuals results and events over the next few hours, there's quite a bit to it, most will be in the QTs but a few people will get individual pms. Phase four will begin when it is all done.

edit: I'm not quite sure what that couple are doing in the castle pic. :laugh4: I only noticed after I'd posted.

[A_Dane]

No glorious victory like last time for me :O

[Csargo]

Congratulations to Duke khaan for besting me in the tournament. It was a well-earned victory.

Also, hello everyone.

[TheLastDays]

Welcome!

And congratulations to the new champion, Duke issaikhaan!

[Jolt]

Congratulations to Duke khaan for his valiant victory over the other Lords of the island.

[Diamondeye]

My sincere congratulations to my friend, Duke Khaan. I would have been honored to face you on your way to the finals, but it seems the flip of the coin did not grant me the pleasure... Nevertheless, a splendid and exciting tourney!

((OOC: John, I think she's pleading or thanking him. Not giving him the Lord's Kiss))

[Kagemusha]

Congratulations to the Ulster Duke for victory and nice to make your acquintance new Duke of Munster Csargo!

[seireikhaan]

It was an honor, Duke Csargo.

[johnhughthom]

1072


https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/317764-pic_forest_bandits_super.jpg

It had been a dark few years for the people of Mide, the old Count had died without leaving an heir and the power vacuum saw banditry increase, mainly from the dead man's former troops. Nobody had made a move on the region in the previous year, this year would be different. Bishop Jolt levied men from his seat at Tir Connail, he intended simply to root out the bandit problem the moved in to take charge and allow the County to move into church hands. Duke khaan in Ulster sent 700 troops to pacify the area for the church.

That was not all however, as 500 men moved in from Connaught to take the County. It appeared there would be a battle fought over Mide, between Ulster, with Jolt's men and Connaught. That was not to be, as the larger Ulster army retreated back home, and the leaderless church forces also returned north.

Mide was left under Connaught control, their forces garrisoned Mide's castle and outposts and the daughter of the previous Count was brought to the Duke's court. Connaught controlled the manpower and income of Mide, but as yet had no claim on the County title.

[Beskar]

Duke of Connaught illegally seized the territory and threatened the forces of the church? A Bold move.

[seireikhaan]

If the Duke of Connaught does not yield the county of Mide, I will have no other option but to declare war on the usurper. The dignity of the Church shall be protected. I urge the other Dukes to join me so as to halt the uncalled for aggression.

[Kagemusha]

No. My orders were to take Mide and surrender the control of it only to Church representative. Apparently our Bishop were not at Mide, so there was not one to surrender the County to. Apparently Duke of Ulster views that i should have surrendered it to him. This whole episode springs from the fact that open conversation was apparently not in the best interest of Ulster, which i cant but ask why?
I repeat that i offer my sincere thanks to the Ulster Vassal Beskar who´s actions saved the situation from escalating further. Now before my fellow Duke´s start calling me an usurper you should ask yourself why i didnt marry off the lass and take claim to her dead fathers lands?

Simple answer is that i did as i said. I sent troops to pacify Mide. It is not my problem that Ulster forces decided to run back to their lands at the first sight of my men. Now i will repeat my plea for the Duke´s and our Grace the Bishop to publically make judgement who should have Mide.
My personal view is that the girl should go to monastery and our Bishop should rule the land as ecclestial County, for which i already gifted him 30 in gold, so he can build a proper church in there. What say thee?

[johnhughthom]

All results are out. Let me know if I missed anything or you think there's a mistake.


Phase 4 begins, 48 hours for orders.

[seireikhaan]

No. My orders were to take Mide and surrender the control of it only to Church representative. Apparently our Bishop were not at Mide, so there was not one to surrender the County to. Apparently Duke of Ulster views that i should have surrendered it to him. This whole episode springs from the fact that open conversation was apparently not in the best interest of Ulster, which i cant but ask why?
I repeat that i offer my sincere thanks to the Ulster Vassal Beskar who´s actions saved the situation from escalating further. Now before my fellow Duke´s start calling me an usurper you should ask yourself why i didnt marry off the lass and take claim to her dead fathers lands?

Simple answer is that i did as i said. I sent troops to pacify Mide. It is not my problem that Ulster forces decided to run back to their lands at the first sight of my men. Now i will repeat my plea for the Duke´s and our Grace the Bishop to publically make judgement who should have Mide.
My personal view is that the girl should go to monastery and our Bishop should rule the land as ecclestial County, for which i already gifted him 30 in gold, so he can build a proper church in there. What say thee?
My soldiers were not in Mide for combat. If I had wanted to seize Mide, I would have simply marched over your forces and taken it. I had three hundred more men than your forces, but I decided escalating a conflict this early would not be in anyone's best interests. It was not I who behaved rashly.

If you wish the girl to be sent to the Monastery, you should have sent her to the Bishopric, not taken her as a hostage. You claim you want a group consensus on a legitimate claim for Mide, but you march your forces in to take it, and seize the young girl? At the suggestion of the Duke of Leinster taking Mide, you aggressively called the rest of us conspirators. You must make up your mind, Duke of Connaught. Will you be a compromiser, as you claim, or are you the aggressor your armies have shown you to be?

[Kagemusha]

My soldiers were not in Mide for combat. If I had wanted to seize Mide, I would have simply marched over your forces and taken it. I had three hundred more men than your forces, but I decided escalating a conflict this early would not be in anyone's best interests. It was not I who behaved rashly.

If you wish the girl to be sent to the Monastery, you should have sent her to the Bishopric, not taken her as a hostage. You claim you want a group consensus on a legitimate claim for Mide, but you march your forces in to take it, and seize the young girl? At the suggestion of the Duke of Leinster taking Mide, you aggressively called the rest of us conspirators. You must make up your mind, Duke of Connaught. Will you be a compromiser, as you claim, or are you the aggressor your armies have shown you to be?

Your accusations are hollow Duke of Ulster. Had you informed what you were planning all this would not even happened. So there is no point for you accusing me of faul play when it was my actions that have shown to others that you were the one hiding your cards.
Now i would like to hear what you propose, not empty accusations. My troops were not in Mide to fight yours, but to pacify the county which we did.

The fact is that Mide is pacified and the situation can be resolved the way the Bishop wants it to be resolved. I cant understand why are you so grim about it?

[Jolt]

OOC: Wait, something's definitely off.

[seireikhaan]

I am not grim, Duke. I told you to relinquish the province, as it is the Bishop's, not yours. If you do as you claim, and hand control over to the Bishop, there will be no problems. But as of now, you control it illegally, and I would remind you of that fact, so we do not come to more misunderstandings.

[Kagemusha]

And like i said, Duke.If you were to handle your stratagems more openly we would not get into affairs like this in the first place. Now let us wait what our Bishop says.

[johnhughthom]

Just to clarify, if two armies are in the same county and I haven't received orders to the contrary, they will treat each other as hostiles, unless they have an official alliance. This is slightly different to how Crusader Kings works on the PC, but is necessary in a multiplayer environment.

[Jolt]

Nah, I'm pulling out of the game because I cannot agree with how the whole Mide affair has been going, the turn after it was agreed Church was getting it (No warning I needed to invade it), and now my army simply packing up and leaving without even probing or engaging any enemy when I gave no order to retreat, especially when a minor battle or minor skirmish with Connaught if they decided to resist would have been very useful. I very much have to guess on how to proceed and while there is too much freedom in some parts (As to having to invade a province instead of automatically switching sovereignty), on others, you have to get nitpicky on orders and fill out to include every possible scenario or otherwise what you send in the orders is probably not gonna happen. The game had potential though, thus why I had originally decided to play it.
Best of luck to all who will still play.

[Kagemusha]

Im not sure what to say, but i hope no one should tell in the public thread anything which might spoil the game. I still hope you would reconsider.

[Jolt]

Im not sure what to say, but i hope no one should tell in the public thread anything which might spoil the game. I still hope you would reconsider.

Nah, I'm out. Don't worry, I'm not spoiling anything. I was merely saying the obvious. Whether intended or not, Connaught attacking Church forces inside Mide would have been diplomatically useful for the Church.

[Kagemusha]

Nah, I'm out. Don't worry, I'm not spoiling anything. I was merely saying the obvious. Whether intended or not, Connaught attacking Church forces inside Mide would have been diplomatically useful for the Church.

I can understand that.Thank you for playing. I think you played your role top notch.:bow:

[Diamondeye]

I can understand that.Thank you for playing. I think you played your role top notch.:bow:

Agreed. And I can understand Jolt's sentiments as well... Well, we need a new bishop, then, or this becomes Total War :tongue:

[TheLastDays]

Conaught forces would not have fought the church's forces as our forces had clear orders to hand over the county to a church representative after pacifying the land.

Anyway, thanks for playing Jolt and all the best!

[Beskar]

OOC: I can swap to bishop, if desired. But I can understand why this might be a bad idea/opposed otherwise due to my playing in Ulster until now.
Edit: Leaves Ulster understaffed, so still causes a problem. Withdrawn.

Edit2:
I actually agree with the Hosts call on this one. John made it clear near the start that the province would not magically just become Jolt's without orders, whether or not people 'agreed' in thread. It is like me agreeing to send in a protection order in a mafia game, then not send in the night order, nothing happens without the order.

Only questionable element is what Kagemusha actually put in his orders, if Kage is willing to send me that OOC, I would have better understanding. However, from what it looks like, Kage had some ulterior motives and if so, John made the correct call.

As for the retreat... Kagemusha's forces made Jolt retreat from the province, which is a "defeat" but you get to still keep your men. It is still very diplomatically useful.

[AggonyDuck]

I'm interested in taking over as Bishop.

[A_Dane]

I'd like to hear the hosts voice on this actually.

If an order was actually given to hand over the province to church representatives, which the church army must be seen as, an error has been made during this turn. If no such order was given however, and this is the outcome of it, Connaught must be seen as an aggressor, unlawfully taking possession of the province.

[Kagemusha]

OOC:The thing with host is that he is the only one who actually knows what our orders were, so place your trust on him.

As Duke of Connaught i say again.I did what i said what i would do. Apparently the Bishop was not with his army and Ulster had ordered an retreat in case my lads would show up. There is no need for speculation, when i have already told you what i think about the situation. Had i wanted to take the county to myself, the Mide lass would have already been married to a Connaught noble.

[Beskar]

OOC:The thing with host is that he is the only one who actually knows what our orders were, so place your trust on him.

OOC: :bow:

[johnhughthom]

I'm interested in taking over as Bishop.

I'd be delighted to have you play, I'll drop you a pm to let you know how your role works.


I'd like to hear the hosts voice on this actually.

If an order was actually given to hand over the province to church representatives, which the church army must be seen as, an error has been made during this turn. If no such order was given however, and this is the outcome of it, Connaught must be seen as an aggressor, unlawfully taking possession of the province.

This is a game with rules which are deliberately vague, some may see that as poor game design but it is intentional. I want players to experiment with different ideas, if I give you a dilemma with two options and you think of a third, try it. People already have and I usually accept them. One inevitable outcome of this is that I will have to make judgement calls, that's what happened here. Jolt disagreed with it, but I stand by it. One thing I would say is anybody who has played Crusader Kings will know a lot of things are based on a percentage chance, the same is true here. If an event occurs and you pick an option but nothing happens you might think that was pointless, you don't know what might have happened however. Almost everything in the game has an element of chance, nothing is guaranteed to succeed and nothing is guaranteed to fail. Some of the stats you have received in your orders may also seem superfluous and irrelevant, they aren't, certain elements of gameplay simply haven't been revealed yet.

I can totally understand Jolt's annoyance and the fact is what happened with Mide was a close call, I got three sets of orders sending soldiers in to Mide which weren't co-ordinated. Things may or may not have been agreed in thread, but nothing in here is taken as an order, I could run the game without reading what the players post in here (I do read them, don't worry :wink:). If I make a judgement call and it isn't popular, it won't be replayed, games like this need momentum and delays and redoing phases kill enjoyment. I would ask, though, that each Dukedom puts their orders in a single post in the QT, which may be edited up to the end of the phase, to make my misinterpreting your orders less likely.

If anybody has any questions just pm me and I'll answer as best I can.

[A_Dane]

All right,

Never wanted the actual orders, but that's sufficient enough. The Duke of Connaught has either had too high expectations regarding the warlike nature of the bishop, or been too vague.

EDIT: Also, regardless of what the duke of Connaught actually ordered, I think he should relinquish the province immediatly. If no new Bishop is appointed before the next turn, he should agree, that the province should go within Ulsters care until such a time, when a new bishop can take it. And i suggest Ulster because they're currently the smallest dukedom, and it would upset the balance of power the least, if they temporarily got another province.

[TheLastDays]

We will surely not give the province into the care of any other Dukedom. There is no guarantee they will ever give it up to the church if we do so. This is nonsense.
There definitely has to be a new bishop, any delaying in that matter will only further confusion.

[A_Dane]

Just like none of the remaining dukedoms can even remotely accept the possibility that Connaught gains another province, and becomes even stronger.

If the Duke of Connaught has as peaceful intentions as he claims, he sees the logic in giving the province, temporarily, into the care of the Dukedom with a less ammount of provinces. We have no guarantee you will give it up either, so it's really a matter of showing good will.

[AggonyDuck]

I've taken over as the Bishop.

Regarding Mide, we do not particularly blame the Duke of Connaught for the incident, but we do expect him to donate the province to the church this year as was agreed upon earlier. Failure to do so will not be seen favourably in the eyes of God and his holiness the Pope.

The Bishop

[A_Dane]

problem is appareantly solved then.

[Csargo]

Welcome Bishop AggonyDuck.

I hope the issue of the County of Mide can come to a close now.

[johnhughthom]

I'm still waiting on quite a few orders, so I'll extend 24 hours.

[AggonyDuck]

It would probably had been a smart thing to inform me of the deadline. :D

[johnhughthom]

I still don't have orders from lazy Leinster, I'm going to have to extend again (sorry) unless you all want to do a co-ordinated attack on them...

Another 24 hours, if I don't have orders I'll choose myself.

[Diamondeye]

What. I posted replies to our events already. Like, Tuesday.

[johnhughthom]

Fair enough, it was posted as if you were asking for opinions from your vassals, I'll use them and end the phase now.

[johnhughthom]

1073


https://i405.photobucket.com/albums/pp139/johnhughthom/_41435182_drought416.jpg

1073 was a grim year in Ireland. The County of Mide was handed over to church control, but 3 years of banditry and lawlessness had left it in a terrible shape. Drought came to the County of Laigin, drastically reducing the prosperity and killing many peasants. Across the island the nobles ruling were seen as Godless and unrest was everywhere, prosperity withered across Ireland. The ruling classes sat in their castles, playing the game of thrones, did they care what the little man thought or did? The next few years would see.


All results out, let me know if I missed anything. I'll not set a deadline for this phase as activity was low last weekend, I'll end it when I get all the orders.




Phase 5 begins.

[Diamondeye]

Fair enough, it was posted as if you were asking for opinions from your vassals, I'll use them and end the phase now.

Well I was but the lazy buggers seem to be asleep. No wonder the peasants are angry with the nobility...

[johnhughthom]

I'll take orders for another 16 hours or so, results and write ups will come as soon as I get back from work and end the round.

[johnhughthom]

Phase over, getting on to results and write up.

[johnhughthom]

Sorry about the delay, something came up.


1074

Discontent continued across Ireland this year, worsening in some areas, but generally staying the same as last year. Rumours surfaced in Munster that pagans were rife across the Dukedom, Duke Csargo's investigations turned up little evidence of heathen practices, but some evidence of the claims originating from outside his realm.
A man was expelled from Leinster after presenting the Duke with a document he claimed showed Diamondeye was the rightful Duke of Ulaid. Diamondeye believed the document was a forgery and refused to use it to force a false claim.
In Connaught Marshall B_Ray defeated a group of Vikings who had raided the Irish coast, evading other Dukedoms forces for 3 years.

A tourney will be held in Ulster next year, as usual all Duchys should decide if they Duke will allow free participation, and Ulster should decide how much to spend.


Phase six begins, 48 hours for orders.

[Diamondeye]

My thanks to Marshall B_Ray and his fellow Lords of Connaught. The vikings were spotted off our coasts last year, and we prepared an ambush for them, but they must have thought to find easier prey otherwhere. I am glad to see that they were wrong in their hopes.

[johnhughthom]

Still awaiting some orders, 24 hour extension.

[johnhughthom]

Gah, I messed up and deleted the folder that had everything for this (Plus a folder full of music)... It's going to take me a few days to pull it all together again, rewrite the events and what have you. That's if people still want to play, interest seems to have waned.

[Diamondeye]

I like the game, and A_Dane seems very active too. Beefy and SkullheadHQ show up every now and then, but God Emperor seems clean out. That's as far as Leinster goes. I would like the game to continue if you have the time and energy for it.

[TheLastDays]

Well I enjoyed the game so far and am definitely still interested in continuing if you have the time and interest, JHT.
Acivity in the QT has maybe dropped a bit but that's because we were posting all the time before... As far As I can tell all our players are still active...

[A_Dane]

Jup I'm still here, and willing to wait a few days for the next turn :)

[Kagemusha]

Im here also. Moving to a new apartment have slowed me down a bit, but i think all Connaught is still active.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I'm here. Still playing.

[Double A]

I never know what to post in the thread (read: I'm asleep whenever something is happening), but I'm having fun, so I'll still play.

[B-Wing]

Yeah, I think this thread is mainly for public negotiations and posturing. I've been a bit overwhelmed by real life work and activities lately, but I'm trying to keep up.

[seireikhaan]

Still good to go.

[The Celtic Viking]

Oorah. Or something. Whatever; I'm still playing.

[Beefy187]

Present :bow:

[Skooma Addict]

I'm still in.

[AggonyDuck]

Yah, me too.

[johnhughthom]

Okay, we'll keep going then. It'll take me another day or two to pull it all together again. If anybody wants to change any orders, I'll accept them up until I officially end the round.

[johnhughthom]

Sorry guys, I've sat down three or four times to redo the game, but it's hard to get motivated to put a game together for a second time. I'm going to have to cancel this one.

[Kagemusha]

Thats a shame, but thank you anyway!It was fun while it lasted! :)

[TheLastDays]

Yep, was fun! Thanks, JHT and don't let it discourage you.

[Diamondeye]

This was a lot of fun while it lasted, John! Thanks for hosting. I'd be very intrigued to see the QTs of other duchies :beam: Who was cheating at tourneys?!

[Csargo]

Thanks for the game JHT.

[TheLastDays]

http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/vZXthgfTrvVwR

Guess it can't do any harm now, can it? It's a long read I'd say ^^ at least JHT mentioned at some point that we had written more than the three other Duchys together

[johnhughthom]

Connaught (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/vZXthgfTrvVwR)

Ulster (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/yuCj6y5YbYTr)

Leinster (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/eiXdRmYpenr)

Munster (http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/dhwCVi895YU5q)

[Skooma Addict]

Thanks for the game Sir John of the Hughthom. I bow to you my good man. :bow:

[Beskar]

Because people might be interested, it was me who put together a range of events!

Obviously I cannot vouch for final product as John altered them slightly for balance reasons, but here they are.

A Dane and the boxom mistress (succeeded) (My favourite)
I will hire a mistress from a brothel to play the part of "farmgirl" upon the lands of A_Dane and attract his attention. Also a letter will be sent to the Bishop.

Event 1: [A Dane]
A Pretty Peasant Girl Catches your Eye as you past by a neglected chapel.
>Indulge in the Passion [condition 1]
>Try to resist the Passion
>Try to restrain the Passion
> Refuse the Passion

Event 2: [Jolt]
A letter arrives making accusations against another Irish count on the charge of heresy, speaking of witchcraft and defiling the holy sanctuary of the church.
> Investigate these allegations. [ condition 1 ]
> I have no time for this.
> Excommunicate this count at once!


Condition 1:
If both Event 1 and Event 2 pick this choice, go to event 3.
If only Event 1 picks this choice, go to result 1.
If only Event 2 picks this choice, go to result 2.

Event 3:
Your investigations lead you to come across a neglected chapel, inside you find a count performing some sort of ritual naked with a woman on the altar.
> Is there room for one more?
> I didn't see anything.
> Excommunicate the count!
> We need to root this from the core!

Result 1:
You spend a pleasurable evening with the farmgirl in the nearby chapel, good thing it is unused.

Result 2:
Your investigations lead you to come across a neglected chapel but you find it hasn't been used for some time, so you abandon your investigation.

The Heresy! (Didn't Succeed) [Note: Translation of the Bible out of Latin (in West) is a grave papal crime]
I will use one gold to dress up one of my agents in the garb of a monk/holy man which appears entirely authentic if no further investigation is done to them (like investigating whether or not he does infact come from hertiage X, etc). Jolt gets informed if the Duke endorses him (option: 1,2,3).

Event:
A Holy Man arrives to the court of Connaught seeking an audience with the Duke. The guards convinced he is who he says he is, permits him to enter to make his announcement infront of the Duke.

"Great Duke, I have heard in passing that you a great man in spiritual matters and a true believer in the Heavenly Father. It has been my life's work to educate the people and bring them to the true faith, and I hope to count on your patronage in my latest work, the translation of the Bible into Irish. I am not yet complete in my task, but here are samples of my work."

The Holy man presents forward documents in Irish, including the Lord's Prayer, Ten Commandants and many others.

1. I fully support your work and I will generously contribute to it. (3 gold)
2. I hear your humble plea, here take this gold and I bid you good tidings. (1 gold)
3. I fully support your work, take up residence in my court and be our bishop. ( 0 Gold)
4. We do not support your work.
5. We have no time for holy men.
6. Begone foul beggar, we have no time for you or your stinking god!

Rumours! (Didn't Succeed)
This time I will do a rumour mill, to cause rumours in the dukedom of Munster which should make the Duke want to possibly act on them! Which causes this event.

===

There has been rumblings of a storm brewing due to the presence of Pagans in the region with outlaying villages taking up torch and pitchforks. A petition has come before the Duke to settle the matter.

- Let's settle this matter once and for all.
- Evict the Pagans
- Enact new Anti-Pagan Legislation
- Let them sort it out themselves
- Pay to Investigate the matter more thoroughly and settle differences. ( -3 gold )
- Pagans? Who cares? [10% trait: Skeptical]
- The peasants need to be reminded who runs the Dutchy.
- Fine the peasants for their disruption. (+1 gold)
- Make an example of the peasants.

Drunk Duke (Unknown)
I will use a special mixture and have it delivered to Kagemusha's drinks for the tournament. This would make him very drunk so he makes a fool of himself during the games.

(Think of it like vodka being added, you cannot really taste it at all, and it doesnt matter if servants/etc drink as well, since it isn't poisonous so they won't be much suspecting of fool play, just a "little too much" to drink. )

So the effect is a drunk Kagemusha during the tournament and a prestige hit if he does badly. Possible piety hit too.

[Kagemusha]

Great stuff Beskar! The way my character was developing.I bet he would have faired only better drunk. About the piety, what piety, is that soemthing to eat?~;)

[Beskar]

I am surprised you dismissed the Holy man though, Kage. I was certain you might have fallen for the ploy, in order to "better your relations" with the Bishop, since you was out of favour and that was packaged as a blessing.

Either that, or I was actually suspecting you might have walked into it intentionally if you knew about it, just to annoy the bishop and start the reformation 500 years early.

[Kagemusha]

I am surprised you dismissed the Holy man though, Kage. I was certain you might have fallen for the ploy, in order to "better your relations" with the Bishop, since you was out of favour and that was packaged as a blessing.

Either that, or I was actually suspecting you might have walked into it intentionally if you knew about it, just to annoy the bishop!

Well at that point i was trying to get into a better standing with the bishop, but in matter of fact it was my capable vassals that pointed it to me, that such heresy might be bad for us.Its a shame that the game ended as i think we had a great team together at Connaught.

[autolycus]

Yeah, well I remembered that unauthorized translations were heretical, so I advised him to send the man away.

[Beskar]

After reading the Munster topic. I will explain the event.

The options are as follows.

Extreme measure
Opposing measure
Light measure
Lazy measure
"Good" measure
Skeptical measure
Light measure
Opposing measure
Extreme measure



As such, "Let's settle this matter once and for all." meant sending in your armed guards to cut the pagans down. Idea being, if you did such a measure, it would cause a Pagan revolt and revolts are very bad in Crusader Kings. On the other end, it could cause a peasant revolt which would be even more deadly.

In short, I was just causing general chaos.

I did have a plan which I was going to try to install myself as Duke of Meath, but that didn't end up in fruition due to the game ending. Doh!

[seireikhaan]

Thanks for hosting, JHT. I'd also like to thank my vassals for their efforts, especially Beskar. :bow:

[Diamondeye]

My first reaction to one of my vassals being caught with a peasant girl was "someone orchestrated this!", but questioning Jolt yielded no verification as he had no idea (I asked him whether he was behind it or acting as an agent of someone else, but obviously he thought it was just a random event.). Also a bit sad that my team was so inactive at the end, seeing how much a little creativity and spending could have done for us...!

[Beskar]

My first reaction to one of my vassals being caught with a peasant girl was "someone orchestrated this!", but questioning Jolt yielded no verification as he had no idea (I asked him whether he was behind it or acting as an agent of someone else, but obviously he thought it was just a random event.). Also a bit sad that my team was so inactive at the end, seeing how much a little creativity and spending could have done for us...!

A Dane had 4 choices, only 1 resulted in him actually having negative consequences and that is only if Jolt investigated the matter!

As for Gold, you have to remember that an entire county only brought in around 12-15 gold. 1 gold to a common person is a lot of money!

[Jolt]

I did end up investigating the matter. Then I proceeded to extort moneyz from DiamondEye.

Anyways, my main plan was basically to intervene as a mediator and play Dukes against each other for the benefit of the Church. As I expected, I made a play of saying that I was to mediate the lands to transition from one Duke to the other, but what I really wanted was to nudge along the idea that the lands, being central to the island, would fall better under the domain of a neutral organization like the Church. It worked good as in two turns the Church went from 0 lands to 2. I was already making plans on who to award the hand of the princess. My main two candidates either a Count of Connaught or TCV. (I wasn't thinking of giving it away to a Duke, as I wanted to plant the seeds of dissention further into the future by playing Duke against courtier thanks to the princess. It would remain my wild card.). I also thought of giving out to Ulster itself, but I realized that me, as an Ulster vassal gaining the land and then granting the hand to another Ulster vassal would have been too much.
Then the whole invasion thingie got in the way.

From what I read from Connaught QT, you were making too much conjecture in regards to my role that far. I wasn't making deals with anyone besides being dealing with Mide in a "fair" way.

As I had explained, I supposed that (based on CK) since the Lords agreed that the lands should go to the Church, it would revert automatically to the Church. In case there was to be war, as I had explained to DiamondEye, I was still the nominal vassal of khaan, and he was my most sturdy supporter, as I knew that giving me the initial lands costed him. So any war against him or me this early would have resulted in immediate excomunication of either the leader or the entire Duchy.

That was what I was going to threaten Connaught with (So long as they had in fact actively resisted Eclesiastical forces) if they didn't immediately retreat from Mide and hand over the bride to the Church so that all Lords could decide a fitting husband (And phreaps make another contribution, but I was still thinking on the subject). Marrying her outright would have been a terrible mistake for Connaught. I would have piled the pressure on Connaught (especially on Kagemusha since he would be her suitor.) and probably the other duchies would be all to eager to drive into Connaught with the Church's blessing.

[Kagemusha]

But then we did not do as you expected. ;)

[Diamondeye]

It would be an idea if the title of this was edited to reflect that it is, in fact, over.

[Jolt]

But then we did not do as you expected. ;)

I knew from the get go that it was needed to send an army regardless of consensus in that the lands would go to the Church, I would have obviously sent it in the appropriate turn, which would meant that no invasion by your duchy would have taken place.