US medical research infects 1500 Guatemalans with syphilis & STDs in 1946

[econ21]

You get inured to hearing of awful acts by "bad people" (e.g. allegations of Gadafi issuing viagara type drugs to his men to encourage use of rape as a weapon of war). But this story today shocked me in part because it was by the "good guys" (US medical researchers) - including forcibly infecting an orphaned young girl with syphilis to try to test an antibiotic:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/08/guatemala-victims-us-syphilis-study?CMP=EMCGT_090611&

It's distressing stuff. And disturbing to think what apparently decent people will do if they can get away with it.


His supervisor, RC Arnold, urged discretion. "If some goody organisation got wind of the work there would be a lot of smoke."

All power to "goody organisations", a blight on "discretion" and would that "the smoke" would choke the perpetrators! :furious3:

[Sarmatian]

The basic problem is that people from the west think of said west as the good guys while the west is a collection of nation furthering their own interests, just like any other nation in the world (though usually having better propaganda).

[PanzerJaeger]

The Guatemalan study went further by deliberately infecting its subjects. Not only did it violate the hippocratic oath to do no harm but it echoed Nazi crimes exposed around the same time at the Nuremberg trials.

Another crack in the facade of the 'Good War'.

[rory_20_uk]

That's nothing. Look what the USA did to its own citizens regarding failing to treat syphilis when treatments were available. Even running effectively a clinical trial in breach of the guidelines they'd help:

Link (http://www.thetalkingdrum.com/tus.html)

~:smoking:

[Strike For The South]

Rory beat me to it!



Another crack in the facade of the 'Good War'.


LOL, Always count on Panzer to bring it.

<3

[HoreTore]

Well.

Horrible as this is, it's also one of the very rare cases where we've actually apologized for the offence...

[econ21]

The basic problem is that people from the west think of said west as the good guys while the west is a collection of nation furthering their own interests, just like any other nation in the world (though usually having better propaganda).

Well, there's a lot of truth in what you say but I don't think the answer is to abandon any ethical pretensions in foreign policy, but rather to hold nations to their professed higher standards. I hope the surviving victims' lawyers get every penny they can in compensation, although the $9m awarded to the Tuskegee survivors Rory mentioned sounds paltry.

[Ronin]

The basic problem is that people from the west think of said west as the good guys while the west is a collection of nation furthering their own interests, just like any other nation in the world (though usually having better propaganda).

people usually think of their guys as being the good guys....this is not really surprising.

[Ice]

The basic problem is that people from the west think of said west as the good guys while the west is a collection of nation furthering their own interests, just like any other nation in the world (though usually having better propaganda).

Really? I typically I think of the west as the latter.

[Shibumi]

No need to flame the US over this.

The whole western world was rather nazi back then, the nazis just took it to the extreme. This is no shock at all, pretty much any western country could be accused of more or less the same.

[econ21]

No need to flame the US over this.

Yes, I wasn't meaning to engage in US bashing. My own country, the UK, did some pretty awful things around that time in its colonies and possessions (gassing Iraqi villages, torturing Kenyans etc). My point was more, like the Milgrom experiment, how "normal" intelligent people can behave horribly if the environment is right (sanctioned by authority, shielded from scrutiny etc.). It doesn't take much to make us fall into barbarism.

But maybe you are right, moral standards and sensibilities have progressed (somewhat) since that era.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

No need to flame the US over this.

The whole western world was rather nazi back then, the nazis just took it to the extreme. This is no shock at all, pretty much any western country could be accused of more or less the same.

Quite, Churchil would have gassed the Kurds except they hadn't worked out how to do it reliably yet.

On a practical note, it is extraordinary that these people have survived with the infection for over sixty years. What the US should do now is issue antibiotics enmasse and quite litterally clean the mess up.

[Louis VI the Fat]

The basic problem is that people from the west think of said west as the good guys while the west is a collection of nation furthering their own interests, just like any other nation in the world (though usually having better propaganda).And Rabbit's police brutality thread shows modern America shoots her citizens just like Libya and Syria! The sole difference is better propaganda.


Another crack in the facade of the 'Good War'. Gah! The one crack I see is the one you are talki

As above. Despite all of CR's videos, I still prefer the rule of the US police over armed street gangs, despite both being armed lunatics with a gun and issues.

[ajaxfetish]

Yeah, my first thought on seeing the thread title was Tuskegee and anything but surprise.

Ajax

[Papewaio]

Criminal charges check.
Compensation check.
Royalties on any drugs developed from this, check.

[Crazed Rabbit]

You get inured to hearing of awful acts by "bad people" (e.g. allegations of Gadafi issuing viagara type drugs to his men to encourage use of rape as a weapon of war). But this story today shocked me in part because it was by the "good guys" (US medical researchers) - including forcibly infecting an orphaned young girl with syphilis to try to test an antibiotic:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/08/guatemala-victims-us-syphilis-study?CMP=EMCGT_090611&

It's distressing stuff. And disturbing to think what apparently decent people will do if they can get away with it.



All power to "goody organisations", a blight on "discretion" and would that "the smoke" would choke the perpetrators! :furious3:

And people wonder why I want government to be small and enfeebled.

CR

[Sarmatian]

And Rabbit's police brutality thread shows modern America shoots her citizens just like Libya and Syria! The sole difference is better propaganda.


There's a big difference between good guys and brutal dictatorships. America is neither, and the sole reason it's seen as "good guy" and not something in betwenn IS better propaganda.

[naut]

Something similar was done to African-Americans early last century IIRC. They were testing a treatment and wanted to document the full effects of the disease. So they gave one group the treatment and one the placebo.