US Governmental Security Measures

[Fisherking]

Is there anyone who doesn’t think it is totally ridiculous, not to mention humiliating?

Security measures are much the same the world over but the US seems to go out of their way to make it as unpleasant as possible.

It is actually easier to gain authorized access to a nuclear weapons storage area than it is to board an airplane or go to an appointment in a government office building. (Not an exaggeration)

If you have to travel abroad and need to visit a US Consulate or Embassy be advised that it is by appointment only. You must arrive an hour early to undergo a security check and the list of items you can’t bring is a very long one. It includes any item that may be electronic or have a battery. Pace makers excepted if proper medical documentation is provided but they must be notified ahead of time.

How is it that other countries are much more capable of not making you feel like a convicted criminal when traveling?

As I understand, Homeland Security would like to expand into bus and train stations, and ferry terminals.

To me it seems much more like a security state than a free democratic republic. I guess you can say if we have to do this, the bad guys have won.

[HoreTore]

Typo in your thread title.

"US Governmental Hysteria Measures" would be more correct.

Let's turn back the clock to the 80's, shall we? The time where the west faced an actual threat to civilization(and the soviets did the same). Which side broke human rights most? The soviets. Which side lost? The soviets.

The soviet union was defeated without major human rights abuses(aside from a few hiccups). The soviets massive human rights abuses, however, directly lead to its downfall. To suggest that our human rights needs to be broken more to defeat a few hillbillys hiding in caves than we needed to defeat one of historys major empires is, quite frankly, absolutely ridiculous.

To make it perfectly clear: islamic terrorism is NOT, in any way whatsoever, a threat to either our nations, our democracies or our civilization.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Profiling is the only way to go. Instead we get this (http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-26/us/florida.tsa.incident_1_pat-down-tsa-pat-downs-tsa-officer?_s=PM:US).

[HoreTore]

It's easy to suggest something that will only have negative consequences for people other than yourself isn't it, Hosa?

Why care about the lives and dignity of others?

[Centurion1]

It's easy to suggest something that will only have negative consequences for people other than yourself isn't it, Hosa?

Why care about the lives and dignity of others?

you dont know the man he may be a well bearded man of arabic descent. Why not care about the lives and dignity of a 95 year old woman. Does she really need to be patted down and does she really have to remove her diaper for gods sakes.

also poor writing on that article they spelled trooper as trouper.

[Samurai Waki]

Every study ever made on the TSA has pretty concluded that they are useless. The reason why there hasn't been another terrorist attack has almost nothing to do with the TSA and everything to do with intelligence. The Times Square Bomber had made it almost effortlessly onto a flight bound for Yemen, and most likely would have made a clean getaway had it not been for the FBI who tracked him down.

[Strike For The South]

But what if they are carrying bean sprouts?

[Kralizec]

Typo in your thread title.

"US Governmental Hysteria Measures" would be more correct.

Let's turn back the clock to the 80's, shall we? The time where the west faced an actual threat to civilization(and the soviets did the same). Which side broke human rights most? The soviets. Which side lost? The soviets.

The soviet union was defeated without major human rights abuses(aside from a few hiccups). The soviets massive human rights abuses, however, directly lead to its downfall. To suggest that our human rights needs to be broken more to defeat a few hillbillys hiding in caves than we needed to defeat one of historys major empires is, quite frankly, absolutely ridiculous.

To make it perfectly clear: islamic terrorism is NOT, in any way whatsoever, a threat to either our nations, our democracies or our civilization.

*applauds*

Great post. If I didn't know any better, I could have sworn I had written it myself.

[HoreTore]

Does she really need to be patted down

No.

See my first post. I also very much agree with Waki and Krazilec's posts.

[Hosakawa Tito]

It's easy to suggest something that will only have negative consequences for people other than yourself isn't it, Hosa?

Why care about the lives and dignity of others?

Jump to conclusions much? I'm speaking of the Israeli airport security system. (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother)


"The word 'profiling' is a political invention by people who don't want to do security," he said. "To us, it doesn't matter if he's black, white, young or old. It's just his behaviour. So what kind of privacy am I really stepping on when I'm doing this?"

Kinda like your knee jerk response, but by all means do carry on.


"First, it's fast — there's almost no line. That's because they're not looking for liquids, they're not looking at your shoes. They're not looking for everything they look for in North America. They just look at you," said Sela. "Even today with the heightened security in North America, they will check your items to death. But they will never look at you, at how you behave. They will never look into your eyes ... and that's how you figure out the bad guys from the good guys."

It's called behavioral profiling. Detect the bombers not the bombs. It takes specialized training, but some of the money being spent on high tech gizmos would be better spent on this effective training. We use it, on a limited scale, in my department.

[Major Robert Dump]

In the defense of the TSA, adult diapers are used occasionally to smuggle contraband, and suicide bombers have used wheelchairs in other countries. But this takes us back to profiling, in neither of the aforementioned cases were the bad guys little old ladies from Iowa.

I would also like to point out that the woman did not bring spare diapers for her mother. Had the TSA not intervened, she would have stewed in poop for the entire flight, and made everyone miserable. Perhaps the daughter should be investigated for caretaker abuse.

[HoreTore]

Yes, because Israeli airports are certainly not known for harrassment of certain ethnicities.theylove to tell you how its all about behaviour, but any palestinian will tell you its all about having an arab-sounding name or skin tone.

Anyway.... The normal association with the term profiling is racial profiling, if you didn't mean that it would've been smart to specify the kind of profiling you're talking about so that people can understand what you mean.

Behavioural profiling could work, sure, but I'm fairly certain it'll descend into harassment of minorities sooner or later. And I still don't see any need for it.

[Hosakawa Tito]

Hehehe, some people just seem determined to make a lifestyle out of being offended, and that offends me. Perhaps those who "fit the profile" should direct their indignation toward those who teach/urge/abet/act upon the criminal behavior. Yes, let's not try what works because uh...oh yeah, someone might be offended. Better to just whine, wring our hands and wait for a bunch of politicians who don't fly commercial with the unwashed masses to do something.



And I still don't see any need for it

Now there's a business opportunity for a trusting sympathetic socialistic minded entrepreneur. No Frisk Airlines. With all the disgruntled passengers out there it's sure to be da bomb.

[Ice]

Jump to conclusions much? I'm speaking of the Israeli airport security system. (http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother)



Kinda like your knee jerk response, but by all means do carry on.



It's called behavioral profiling. Detect the bombers not the bombs. It takes specialized training, but some of the money being spent on high tech gizmos would be better spent on this effective training. We use it, on a limited scale, in my department.

Good post

[Fisherking]

Today I got a look at US diplomatic security.

The US Consulate looked very much like a prison. The security is much tighter than a prison though.

There is more or less triple bearer security before you get to the fence. When you approach the one entry port from the street there is a barrier of pillars to step through and a sign saying wait here for the guard.

In a country where it rains a lot it struck me that there is no cover and umbrellas are not permitted. To go there you have to book an appointment online and take a printout of it along.

I stepped past the pillars to wait. A local security policeman stepped out and told me to get behind the pillars, I was too close. Now this is 15 or 20 meters from the guard shack which looks like it could withstand a 5 megaton nuclear blast, but I was too close.

After several minuets a guard arrived with a clipboard. Naturally as it is the US Government and it was a governmental agency that sent me there my name was not on his list. He left to get his partner who spoke better English and to find out what to do, since I did have the appointment slip.

Some how my name was on the second clipboard so that was solved but I still had to stand beside the pillars to await my turn. There was no one else there.

I waited while several other people came and were ushered in. (I didn’t tell you that the website said to arrive an hour before your appointment did I.)

Anyway, I was at last permitted into the security screening area. It was much like the old airport security with a metal detector and a scanning machine for everything you take from you pockets. Not a big deal, except that now I can see that everything is “Case White”.

I did a quick goggle search so I could link you to what that is but it seems that is no longer for public consumption.

Briefly it means that everything is built to withstand a sustained assault by anything that can be carried by two men for up to 15 minuets. And I do mean anything. You would need a tank to pierce the armored glass.

I was buzzed out of the security shack and buzzed into the Consulate building proper. It was about the burst radius of a grenade from the security building and even more secure.

The place you have to report to in there is the Cashier. The guy in front of me had to pay around $600.00 for what ever he had done. I was close enough to hear that part.

It was just a big room with bars on the inside and looked as though it was meant to withstand bombing from the inside.

The staff was enclosed behind more Case White security windows and reinforced concrete walls a bit over two feet thick.

It was otherwise a lot like visiting a DMV. Rather than fixing the problem, like any good government office workers they didn’t help at all.

Maybe I will visit EUCOM Headquarters next. They don’t charge for fouling things up. They do that for free. :laugh4:

[Adrian II]

Profiling is the only way to go.

That, plus HUMINT (human intelligence) and old-fashioned police work. On the whole I agree with HoreTore, in that there has rarely been a worse overreaction to a perceived threat in modern history. The bad guys haven't won, but they have scored a point or two. Shame on us.

AII