Otto von Habsburg died

[Skullheadhq]

BERLIN (AP) — Otto von Habsburg, the oldest son of Austria-Hungary's last emperor and the longtime head of one of Europe's most influential families, died Monday, his spokeswoman said. He was 98.

Habsburg died in his sleep at his home in Poecking in southern Germany, where he had lived in exile since the 1950s, spokeswoman Eva Demmerle told The Associated Press. A longtime advocate of European reunification, he campaigned against communism and for the removal of the Iron Curtain.

Born in 1912 in what is now Austria, Habsburg witnessed the family's decline after the empire was dismantled and Austria became a republic following World War I. He became head of the family at his father's death in 1922 and continued to claim the throne until the 1960s.

He was a member of the European Parliament for the conservative Bavarian Christian Social Union in southern Germany and also served as president of the Pan-European League from 1979 to 1999.

In that role, he was instrumental in helping organize the Pan-European Picnic peace demonstration in 1989 on the border of Austria and Hungary. The border was briefly opened in a symbolic gesture, which created the opportunity for 600 East Germans to flee communism months before the fall of the Berlin Wall.

It was the first time an Eastern European nation had opened its borders, and is widely seen as the start of the fall of communism.

European Commission President Jose Manuel Barroso mourned the passing of "a great European ... who gave an important impetus to the European project throughout his rich life".

"He made a central contribution to the opening of the Iron Curtain and the peaceful reunification of our continent that had been divided for too long," Barroso said in a statement. "I will particularly remember his strong stance against all forms of totalitarianism and on Europe's fundamental values."

Habsburg was born in the Austrian city of Reichenau, the oldest son of Charles I, whose family ruled much of central and eastern Europe for centuries.

But after Austria and Germany lost World War I, the Austria-Hungarian Empire was dismantled, Charles I had to resign and Austria went on to become a republic.

In 1919, Charles and his family had to leave the country for what turned out to be permanent exile in various European countries.

After his father's death in 1922, the 10-year-old Otto officially took over as the head of the House of Habsburg.

Otto tried to negotiate his return to Austria in 1935 and again in 1938 when he even sought to become chancellor to fight the expected invasion by Hitler's troops, but could not gather enough support.

Instead, he found a channel through the U.S. embassy in Paris to contact President Franklin D. Roosevelt and later claimed to have prevented Allied bombings of a number of Austrian cities by pleading with the U.S. military.

He was also credited with having helped about 15,000 Austrians escape the Nazis. At the same time, as he told the Austrian paper Die Presse in 2007, he negotiated Austria's postwar fate with Roosevelt, Winston Churchill and Charles de Gaulle.

Still, he was not allowed to return to Austria until 1966, five years after he officially abdicated the crown. He later claimed to be baffled by the hostility and criticism in his home country.

Habsburg's wife, Regina, died last year. The couple had seven children. Their eldest son, Karl, now runs the family's affairs and has been the official head of the House of Habsburg since 2007.

Habsburg will be buried July 16 in the Emperor Tomb in Vienna, below the Austrian capital's Capuchin Church.

RIP Otto von Habsburg. He had children, so if the Austrians change their minds...

[HoreTore]

98 is a respectable age. It is natural and good to die at that age. People at that age never seem to fear death, they all seem to take the position that "when it comes, it comes".



As for the position and symbol that died, I'm happy to see it go.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well, we shall see if the son can equal the father, or perhaps beter him.

RIP

and "Long live the Emperor" I suppose.

[Skullheadhq]

As for the position and symbol that died, I'm happy to see it go.

Why? Aren't tradition and history good things? And he could have been a very good ruler.

[Fragony]

Why? Aren't tradition and history good things?

Guillotines are better

[HoreTore]

Why? Aren't tradition and history good things? And he could have been a very good ruler.

No, it is not. Dictatorships are not good, inbreeding is not good. Hereditary rule is by definition bad,.

If he had involved himself in politics and ran for an election, then fair game, I have no problems with that. But claiming to be King? That I can never accept.

[HoreTore]

Guillotines are better

:sweetheart:

[Rhyfelwyr]

Guillotines are better

Is that fair in this case? I doubt he envisioned himself as some sort of absolute monarch, isn't it understandable that the old monarchy seemed a lot better when the two alternatives in his country at the time seemed to be either Nazism or communism?

If anything he seems like a bit of a Gandhi figure. Helped Austrians flee the Nazi's, used peaceful demonstrations to help people escape past the Iron Curtain.

Can't we give him a break?

[Fragony]

Is that fair in this case? I doubt he envisioned himself as some sort of absolute monarch, isn't it understandable that the old monarchy seemed a lot better when the two alternatives in his country at the time seemed to be either Nazism or communism?

If anything he seems like a bit of a Gandhi figure. Helped Austrians flee the Nazi's, used peaceful demonstrations to help people escape past the Iron Curtain.

Can't we give him a break?

Don't care about him you don't choose your bloodline, you can however choose to not be king. Something that that lying stealing mafia family with a long history of high-treason, nazism, desertion (highest ranked deserter in Dutch history), incest childrape and very possibly child-murder in occult rituals here in the Neds sees as their god,given rights

[Skullheadhq]

No, it is not. Dictatorships are not good, inbreeding is not good. Hereditary rule is by definition bad,.

If he had involved himself in politics and ran for an election, then fair game, I have no problems with that. But claiming to be King? That I can never accept.

Habsburgers are banned from being elected in Austria.


Don't care about him you don't choose your bloodline, you can however choose to not be king. Something that that lying stealing mafia family with a long history of high-treason, nazism, desertion (highest ranked deserter in Dutch history), incest childrape and very possibly child-murder in occult rituals here in the Neds sees as their god,given rights

I lol'd, that are some retarded conspiricy theories you got there. One or two at most are true.

[Adrian II]

[...] that that lying stealing mafia family with a long history of high-treason, nazism, desertion (highest ranked deserter in Dutch history), incest childrape and very possibly child-murder in occult rituals here in the Neds sees as their god,given rights

Interesting. Which family would that be?

AII

[Fragony]

I lol'd, that are some retarded conspiricy theories you got there. One or two at most are true.

The only disputed ones are the last two, the pink ballets and the sadist killings, not the rest. Can go over each one if you so desire

[Rhyfelwyr]

Don't care about him you don't choose your bloodline, you can however choose to not be king. Something that that lying stealing mafia family with a long history of high-treason, nazism, desertion (highest ranked deserter in Dutch history), incest childrape and very possibly child-murder in occult rituals here in the Neds sees as their god,given rights

So what is it guilt by association?

How is it relevant if his family were Nazi's when this guy obviously fought against them?

[Fragony]

So what is it guilt by association?

How is it relevant if his family were Nazi's when this guy obviously fought against them?

Kidding me (if we are talking about nice father of our queen), he personally helped fellow nazi's escape to Argentina to his friend Zorrigueta, grandfather of princess Maxima who is the wive of our crownprince. Met eachother in a photoshop, small world.

[Skullheadhq]

So what is it guilt by association?

How is it relevant if his family were Nazi's when this guy obviously fought against them?

He's talking about the Dutch royal family and not Otto von Habsburg

[Louis VI the Fat]

Pfft...



It is the petty bourgeoisie which is fiercely monarchistsic. This is because they assume something of the glamour and status of the monarchy will reflect upon them. 'We understand proper manners, we are not part of the unruly proletariat, we value tradition'.

What the monarchy is to the middle classes are the massive golden necklaces and the 600 euro flashy sports shoes of the lower classes. What to the class involved is a sign of social aspiration, is to the class above a sign of bad taste and poor judgement. Whether flirting with the upper class or flaunting your blingbling, to the class above it merely serves to accentuate lower status by a failure to grasp the basics of the class aspired to.


Lessons in there.

Although I assume there is at least one person who'll now think himself one class above me yet because he understands one does not berate the lower classes for their poor taste. To be truly on top means one can be silently confident about that.

[Adrian II]

[...] father of our queen [...] personally helped fellow nazi's escape to Argentina to his friend Zorrigueta

Whoah, I smell a major scoop here. Either that, or just a tremendous heap of cow droppings on Frag's doorstep.

AII

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

:sweetheart:

Backroom rules please - wait until he's buried.

[gaelic cowboy]

Pfft...



It is the petty bourgeoisie which is fiercely monarchistsic. This is because they assume something of the glamour and status of the monarchy will reflect upon them. 'We understand proper manners, we are not part of the unruly proletariat, we value tradition'.

What the monarchy is to the middle classes are the massive golden necklaces and the 600 euro flashy sports shoes of the lower classes. What to the class involved is a sign of social aspiration, is to the class above a sign of bad taste and poor judgement. Whether flirting with the upper class or flaunting your blingbling, to the class above it merely serves to accentuate lower status by a failure to grasp the basics of the class aspired to.


Lessons in there.

Although I assume there is at least one person who'll now think himself one class above me yet because he understands one does not berate the lower classes for their poor taste. To be truly on top means one can be silently confident about that.

Aristo types have more in common with the lower than the middle class, often they have no money nor work, holidays are in Donegal and they care nothing for convention, the lower orders also never work an holidays are in Bundoran also in Donegal plus they dont care for convention either.

The middle is obsessed with manners and flashy white goods in there fitted kitchens with granite worktop.

[HoreTore]

Backroom rules please - wait until he's buried.

What are you on about this time?

[Louis VI the Fat]

What are you on about this time?Rules ask for a minimum of restraint, some sense of decorum until after the funeral.

We do not want to end up like Fred Phelps. We don't picket funerals, nor glee over the recently deceased.

[HoreTore]

Rules ask for a minimum of restraint, some sense of decorum until after the funeral.

We do not want to end up like Fred Phelps. We don't picket funerals, nor glee over the recently deceased.

Now, where was I doing that?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Now, where was I doing that?

When you expressed happiness at his death, and in generally pushing your personal political views.

This is not the place - show some respect.

[HoreTore]

When you expressed happiness at his death, and in generally pushing your personal political views.

This is not the place - show some respect.

Complete nonsense.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Come on, guys. 'Did too' - 'did not' is not proper conversation. I'm not a moderator around here. You can report a post if you think it crossed any line.


Let's return to the on-topic conversation of which one of us has got a fitted kitchen with granite worktop. :grin:

[ajaxfetish]

Easy, now. I've seen HoreTore go off on monarchy, and this is nothing, especially since he's directed no bile toward the man himself (who I knew zilch about, but seems quite the decent fellow).

Ajax

[gaelic cowboy]

Come on, guys. 'Did too' - 'did not' is not proper conversation. I'm not a moderator around here. You can report a post if you think it crossed any line.


Let's return to the on-topic conversation of which one of us has got a fitted kitchen with granite worktop. :grin:

Yes indeed Louis far better use of one's time :yes:

[HoreTore]

The only place I talked about the man, was in the first two lines of my first post. After that, I have commented on the hated institution of monarchy, which has nothing to do whatsoever with the deceased. A king is an institution, not a person.


....and my kitchen isn't much to talk about these days, the woman I usually have cleaning it(through bribery of tacos) is working around the clock a long way from here, so I have quite a few weeks of dishes to do... Which is why my dinner tonight was a beer, a few apples and some bread slices. It'll be tougher tomorrow, I used my last knife on this one....

[Rhyfelwyr]

He's talking about the Dutch royal family and not Otto von Habsburg

Yeah I know, the only reason I could think of why it would be relevant to mention the Dutch royals would be to tarnish Mr. von Habsburg on account of him also being a royal of some sort.

I'm not an advocate of monarchy, I just think people are making some very unfair attacks on this guys character.

Anyway, Louis appears to have gone all Marxist. The "petty bourgeoisie"... really?

I also really don't think 'bling' culture is an attempt by the peasantry to aspire to bourgoisie status. In fact, the more 'blingy' chav types are always middle-class kids doing their usual "I'm going through changes and I'm unsure in my identity so I would to fit into a clearly defined group" routine.

I also don't think the middle-classes are the monarchies biggest fans. Any Marxist knows it is them that put the monarchs in their place. A lot of midde-class types tend to fancy themselves are republicans. Working-class people aren't afforded the luxury of such noble ideologies since pretty much the whole political system screws them. At least the monarchy looks pretty for them while it does it.

But damnit Louis you write so well it doesn't even matter what you are saying, is there nobody you Frenchmen can't seduce with your words. The only person to ever write more beautifully on this forum is when Fragony gets really cryptic and inadvertently creates prose poetry.

[Rhyfelwyr]

....and my kitchen isn't much to talk about these days, the woman I usually have cleaning it(through bribery of tacos)

Eh wait was that little bit of humour there an attempt to disguise the fact that you just told us you have a maid?

I smell a champagne socialist...

[HoreTore]

Eh wait was that little bit of humour there an attempt to disguise the fact that you just told us you have a maid?

I smell a champagne socialist...

I pay her in tacos. Or rather, when my flat is messy, I invite her to eat dinner. When she arrives and sees the mess, she'll annunce that there's no way in hell she'll eat in a pig-sty, and then proceed to clean up. Then we eat. Best arrangement I ever had!

[Strike For The South]

The cleaning woman likes Tacos

LOL

That works on a racist and sexist level

[Fragony]

'The only person to ever write more beautifully on this forum is when Fragonygets really cryptic and inadvertently creates prose poetry. '

But that is when I try to make sense
-

And easy on the Viking if anyone breaked the rules it's moi

[Adrian II]

[...] father of our queen [...] personally helped fellow nazi's escape to Argentina to his friend Zorrigueta

Like I said, this is news to me and news is my business. So: any sources for this? I want names, shirt numbers, dates, that sort of thing.

AII

[ELITEofWARMANGINGERYBREADMEN88]

As this Hungarian Hussar shall say;


THE EMPEROR IS DEAD,LONG LIVE THE EMPEROR!

[Fragony]

Like I said, this is news to me and news is my business. So: any sources for this? I want names, shirt numbers, dates, that sort of thing.

AII

Netwerk came with it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF36y2x50fQ

More later.

[Adrian II]

Netwerk came with it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JF36y2x50fQ

More later.

Ther's nothing in there about Prince Bernhard personally helping fellow (sic) nazi's escape to his friend Zorreguieta.

AII

[Fragony]

Ther's nothing in there about Prince Bernhard personally helping fellow (sic) nazi's escape to his friend Zorreguieta.

AII

That remains in the blogosphere and I don't bother posting blogs anymore, but's as good as certain or at least very likely that the plane leaving Zurich was piloted by Bernhard.

At any rate, what did come out on MSM makes it at least highly unlikely that he didn't at least know about it. Blogs just connect the dots

[Skullheadhq]

That remains in the blogosphere and I don't bother posting blogs anymore, but's as good as certain or at least very likely that the plane leaving Zurich was piloted by Bernhard.

At any rate, what did come out on MSM makes it at least highly unlikely that he didn't at least know about it. Blogs just connect the dots

Blogs, I could give you blogs that will tell the aliens will land tomorrow to conquer earth. They didn't made this up of course, they just connected the dots.

[Fragony]

Blogs, I could give you blogs that will tell the aliens will land tomorrow to conquer earth. They didn't made this up of course, they just connected the dots.

I'm sure I can, and I'm also sure that you can't depend on mainstream media as they won't bite the hands that feeds them, or risk their career over a wrong imformant. Blogs aren't taken seriously, and that isn't a problem, it's a luxory.

Can't say it better than with an example, Joris Demmink.

who?

[Skullheadhq]

Can't say it better than with an example, Joris Demmink.


His case was a few times on NOS, and nobody cares about him.

[Fragony]

His case was a few times on NOS, and nobody cares about him.

They kinda can't anymore as most are all either dead or missing.

if half is true 99% still didn't it in msm http://www.google.nl/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.klokkenluideronline.nl%2Fartikel%2F755%2Faffaire-joris-demmink-het-feitenoverzicht.html&ei=X9QUTr2GLI-f-Qb7ubT1Dw&usg=AFQjCNFJTPpioPD9ZRYpM08ExUkk7tOfOA&sig2=mqpgCALkyLqLR3t17Ngnvg