A call for violence [Archive]

Fragony

07-09-2011, 11:05

At which point exactly does a state lose it's monopoly on violence, and at which point does the repression of vigilanties excuse faillure. Asking because there's something smoldering here, More than a few times this month have I heard of people saying to kthbye the police and take matters into own hands. Everybody here knows that the police hates criminals, they get into the way of their real job, which is fining disobedience. When the police does nothing, when can you, without feeling all too bad about it

Of course we are talking about people who enrich our culture

This got to go wrong at some point. A few pretty horrifying 'incidents' and some pretty harsh words in which the thrust in government is basicly nullified, things are not good.

Things are good here, but this really has to stop at some point, I say just disregarding the police and let racial tensions explode is a good thing. Maybe the police gets the point.

Borderline facist and probably racist, yeah but so what

Hax

07-09-2011, 12:31

At which point exactly does a state lose it's monopoly on violence, and at which point does the repression of vigilanties excuse faillure.

Never. If a state loses its monopoly on violence, it is no longer a functioning state. Order must be kept at all times by the state, not by civilian guardsmen.

Things are good here, but this really has to stop at some point, I say just disregarding the police and let racial tensions explode is a good thing.

Who will be held accountable for those deaths, then? Do we want entire mobs to storm the Bijlmer, throwing children off rooftops and things like that? I don't know what exactly you have in mind, but ethnic violence generally isn't good.

This got to go wrong at some point. A few pretty horrifying 'incidents' and some pretty harsh words

The irony of your use of the apostrophe does not elude me. What do you mean by 'incidents'? Are you suggesting that the Dutch state somehow is responsible for ...what exactly? What 'incidents' and 'harsh words' are you talking about?

Skullheadhq

07-09-2011, 12:47

If the Fragony scenario would happen, I'd grab some popcorn and watch the fireworks before the UN intervenes. Only not sure if that scenario is a good idea, except the popcorn part, I like popcorn.

Lemur

07-09-2011, 16:29

Adrian II

07-09-2011, 17:27

Kinda hard to respond to a long string of hypotheticals without something to ground it. These incidents, has there been any coverage? Can you describe what's going on in slightly less euphemistic language? I mean, I get the Ethnic Conflict theme, and we all know how well that worked out for Yugoslavia and Rwanda, but I'm real unclear on specifics.

It's a blogosphere thingy. Some blogs make a lot of noise about a couple of anonymous calls for vigilantism in a couple of neighbourhoods in smaller Dutch cities. I have heard such calls since I was a kid in 1970, nothing new.

Our police have a credibility problem, that much is true. They seem to be developing a culture where they look after themselves first, acting more and more lazy, inward-looking and target-driven like (parts of) the American or British police. They appear to keep a safe distance from violent incidents in society more often, whereas an 'officer down' calls draw twenty patrol cars in ten minutes. That sort of stuff.

AII

Husar

07-09-2011, 23:53

So, whenever you need the police, call them and shout "Officer down", followed by where you are. ~D

Fragony

07-10-2011, 13:56

Lemur

07-10-2011, 16:09

Skullheadhq

07-10-2011, 17:00

They're discussing agressive foreigners who beat you up for no reason with excessive violence, I think.

Fragony

07-10-2011, 17:55

I think I understand what Fragony and Adrian are saying, but it's still very hard to have an intelligent opinion with no data. Are there any reports, summaries, news articles? Anything at all that I could read to get a grounding in what you guys are talking about?

Data would be pretty unspectular, things aren't all that bad overall. But for those on the recieving end of what I can call no other than anti-white crime there is nobody doing anything. Police won't even make a note, they flatout refuse it. What choice do people have but solving it themselves.

@Hax, don't exxagerate. But making civil watches and just boycotting the police, why not?

Adrian II

07-11-2011, 21:12

@Adrian, don't be stupid.

I try not to.

There is more than enough momentum for a tiny push making the difference.

I often wonder if you are on the side of the pushers, you seem just a bit too eager.

AII

Fragony

07-12-2011, 05:12

I try not to.

I often wonder if you are on the side of the pushers, you seem just a bit too eager.

AII

Not really, but if people look for alternatives maybe the police gets the point. When in Culomburg the threat that the Mulaku Hells Angels would take over the police suddenly started giving a crap.

Crazed Rabbit

07-12-2011, 15:36

Data would be pretty unspectular, things aren't all that bad overall. But for those on the recieving end of what I can call no other than anti-white crime there is nobody doing anything. Police won't even make a note, they flatout refuse it. What choice do people have but solving it themselves.

@Hax, don't exxagerate. But making civil watches and just boycotting the police, why not?

Really? The police say "I'm sorry, but you're reporting that a swarthy foreigner has committed a crime? Well I will not take a report of that, then. Good day."*

*In Dutch

CR

Fragony

07-12-2011, 15:52

Really? The police say "I'm sorry, but you're reporting that a swarthy foreigner has committed a crime? Well I will not take a report of that, then. Good day."*

*In Dutch

CR

Not necessary with foreigners, police just wants to be left alone. Example, shop owner had a motorcycle stolen. He had security video's and actually knew who did it and gave the police his adress, that just annoyed the police. Two weeks later he saw his motorcycle for sale on the internet, police did nothing. He found out it had been sold, and told the police that if they didn't do anything he would get it himself, which he did, broke the lock and retrieved motorcycle. Two days later he was arrested and his motorcycle confiscated . He won't make that mistake again. Sounds like pure Kafka but that's how things go

Furunculus

07-12-2011, 16:52

At which point exactly does a state lose it's monopoly on violence

In England, that question is easy to answer:

http://www.tpuc.org/node/285

Under article 61 of Magna Carta 1215 (the founding document of our Constitution) we have a right to enter into lawful rebellion if we feel we are being governed unjustly. Contrary to common belief our Sovereign and her government are only there to govern us and not to rule us and this must be done within the constraint of our Common Law and the freedoms asserted to us by such Law, nothing can become law in this country if it falls outside of this simple constraint.

Article 61 shows quite clearly who really holds the power in this country, that being quite simply us the people; we have Sovereignty not any Parliament and nor can this be taken from us by any Parliament who claim to have taken the people’s Sovereignty. As defined above any act passed by a Parliament to remove the power the people possess, or to remove the power from the point of constraint we invested the power in, is invalid as it falls outside of the constraint laid down by Common/Constitutional Law.

This is a simple safeguard put in place to protect our freedoms under said law and to never allow such freedoms to be removed or diminished. So in reality any Act, Statute and subsequent law or legislation formed by these actions, that effects our freedoms asserted to us, is quite evidently unjust, invalid and most certainly illegal.

By invoking article 61 we are quite clearly stating that we feel we are being governed unjustly and after giving the head of state (Her Majesty) 40 day’s to correct this, if this is not corrected, then we can simply enter into lawful rebellion and we do this under the full protection of our Constitutional Law.

Lawful rebellion allows quite simply for the following recourse;

1. Full refusal to pay any forms of Tax, Fines and any other forms of monies to support and/or benefit said unlawful governance of this country.
2. Full refusal to abide by any Law, Legislation or Statutory Instrument invalidly put in place by said unlawful governance that is in breech of the Constitutional safeguard.
3. To hinder in any way possible all actions of the treasonous government of this land, who have breeched the Constitutional safeguard; defined with no form of violence in anyway, just lawful hindrance under freedom asserted by Constitutional Law and Article 61.

Above are listed the three main ways we can as a people rely upon article 61 and what this allows for. The British people were given over 700 years ago a Law to use as there recourse when faced with either a Parliamentary dictatorship, or a Sovereign trying to rule by Divine Right, which amounts to the same thing. We have a right, and a birth right at that, to be governed properly under our birth right law and no other and certainly not by laws introduced on the pretence of being British Law, when in fact all laws passed since 1973 have been European laws in the guise of British law. We have a right to freedom within our true law and no Parliament can remove this for they were not present in its implementation nor did it need any Parliament, or any Parliament involvement, this was quite simply a deal struck between the people and a Sovereign, a deal which can never be broken.

The traitors that reside in the Parliament of this country only fear one thing and that quite simply is us the people and they know that they can never defend themselves, or defend their treasonous actions, lies and deceit against the power of the people, asserted by and given by, the founding document of our Constitution Magna Carta 1215. They realize, as many others do, that once the British public grasps the power of Magna Carta in both hands and start to use it in their defense; their game is quite simply up.

What does Magna Carta stand for?

In stands for freedom, that the people have Sovereignty that cannot be removed by anyone and it stands for the only real true rule of law; that no one, without exception, is above the law.

What does Article 61 (Lawful Rebellion) stand for? You have Sovereignty, realize it, and use it.

;)

Fragony

07-12-2011, 18:10

In England, that question is easy to answer:

http://www.tpuc.org/node/285

;)

Such a great thing to cry over

Strike For The South

07-12-2011, 18:39

Bring The Violence

Vladimir

07-12-2011, 20:23

It's significant.

Adrian II

07-13-2011, 08:12

It's significant.

Albeit symbolic.

AII

Centurion1

07-13-2011, 09:13

The american government is given its monopoly on violence by the people and it is willfully and happily supported by the people. nothing wrong with a little roughness.

Strike For The South

07-13-2011, 16:52

The US government does not have a true monoply on violence.

Crazed Rabbit

07-13-2011, 17:04

The american government is given its monopoly on violence by the people and it is willfully and happily supported by the people. nothing wrong with a little roughness.

Please see the police abuses thread.

CR

Strike For The South

07-13-2011, 17:47

nothing wrong with a little roughness.

Funny, those are the exact words I used with my first wife

BA DUM TISH

Centurion1

07-13-2011, 21:20

Please see the police abuses thread.

CR

it was a bit of a joking statement.

but people are far quicker to blame the victim than the officer in cases like police abuse.

and yeah strike true but i would say the government is like verizon and those other violent entities are like well...... those service providers i dont care enough about to learn the names of.