Naginata-No Morale

[NARF]

I have two questions. Would a line of naginata hold the charge of and possibly kill monks. And what are some tactics I could use in a no morale battle.

[Maltz]

Quote Originally posted by NARF:

1. Would a line of naginata hold the charge of and possibly kill monks
2. what are some tactics I could use in a no morale battle.[/QUOTE]

(1) I've heard people suggesting you make Naginata's in "engage-at-will" mode, which they fight better than "hold formation". But you can ask them to hold position, this way they can get a defense bonus (I heard this, too). A single line is not very good usually as if anybody dies, you got a hole in your formation.

Only a group naginata will not be able to stop a group of monk - they will be worn down slowly and lost - but you can surely block them for quite a while, if your main force is concentrating on somewhere else. To really kill the monks, you need to have some missles firing at these light-armored monsters, and is possible, even flank it with a group of ashigaru, can make them turn around and run.

(2) I am not sure what you mean by a "no-morale" battle. If both sides have no morale (i.e. Ashigaru vs. Ashigaru), you can just fight the battle as normal. Just everything happens faster - you rout or they rout! If it is just you who have an inferior morale (ashigaru vs. monks, for example), then you need to either have some numerical advantage (to flank them or destroy them one-by-one fast enough), or have a height advantage to balance it out. Your archers will be very useful if the enemey high-morale units are no-dachi or monks. However, if you are facing a group of high honor YS, probably you don't have much chance to win. By the time you inflict enough damage on them, you man would have started yelling for Mommy.

I guess you now have a situation of some lower honored Naginata aginst higher honored monks? Then your best bet is (a) get enough guns/archers behind your naginatas (b) get some shock troop to flank them - preferable horses, if you don't have the money then use ashigaru as the backup. (Your first wave of flank will get probably more damage.)

[This message has been edited by Maltz (edited 06-22-2001).]

[Maltz]

ops I guess I have done something wrong. please ignore this one.

[This message has been edited by Maltz (edited 06-22-2001).]

[NARF]

Thanks a lot, Ive always had a problem in mplayer battles with monk rushes. Sorry about the no morale one, its a realism setting.

[theforce]

Well m8 you can use e.g 4 naginata units to hold 6 monks for some time and flank with 2 no-dashi units. Naginata are useful at blocking more enemy untis so you will have those extra units to flank. Also they are great for defedning in forests.

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://darksideclan.fateback.com
Enter the Darkside...

[Kocmoc]

guys u always forget 1 HEAVY POINT.
it works only if the other move his monks
to attack the nags.

If i dont attack ur nags what u do then?
u go behind?
u attack with nags(they ahve an attack strange of 1!!!)?

u never ever can stop (on flat) 6 monks with 4 nags! Nags have a shit moral and they mostly lost in a 1v1 fight against a monk.

but the heavy point is, im faster with my monks i overwight 1 site and ur other nags comes to late.

koc

[OUT4BLOOD]

i agree in 12 months i aint found a good way of using nagis not only r they wimps but r slow as a snail on prozac

[evilc]

they r better offline, which is a pity cos i find them useful against the dumb AI

[Vanya]

Naginata are great units... just not on the pancake maps favored by most online... Heck, only an idiot would load up with naginata when playing on Green...

http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif

Just wait 'till the expansion when we can give 'em a weapons bonus!




[This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 06-25-2001).]

[Khan7]

Nagis are great for both defending and attacking rivers or hills, due to their heavy armor and consequent staying power and protection from missles. I.E. a single unit of Nagis defending a bridge with holdformation holdposition will both decimate attacking forces and hold them off for a looong time, and be less vulnerable to supporting missle fire, and Nagis are great for either forcing your way up a hill or getting a beachhead on a bridge. I doubt anyone will be able to verify their usefullness on hills, though, because it is generally known that it is impossible to win a hill battle in any case unless one of the following is true:

(1) you have a koku advantage (not possible in current MP model)

(2) your opponent is a either a dumb newb or a complete and utter moron

But anyway, that's what I know about Nagis.

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Khan7

[shingenmitch2]

Once again, u and I disagree Kahn7 --
re: "it is generally known that it is impossible to win a hill battle in any case."

I've taken hills from very good players. It is more difficult, but not impossible.

Sometimes it was army composition match-ups and sometimes it was maneuvering or otherwise. And if you say they slipped up, I would agree--but if they always played a perfect game they'd never lose on flat ground either.

[Sengoku]

I actually have a great fondness for using naginata, especially if they have armour or weapon upgrades. I find they are best used as a wall behind which archers and gunners can fire. In my experience they will out even over warrior monks so long as you let them come to your naginata. Incidentally, naginata have a +6 defence factor (Warrior monks = attack factor +5, defence factor +2), although naginata have no morale bonuses and are v-e-r-y slow, so don't move them around too much or you will find it whittles away at their morale. Another great use for them is to lead a bridge offensive, as with an armour upgrade they can take huge amounts of arrows.

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

NARF(Senki): Yes, when defending a line (three deep) of nag units can be quite a powerfull tool in certain situations.

I can show you exactly what i mean, E-mail me. We will meet on-line next week. I will show you on a map (Even a flat one)at 5500 koku when defending.

Maltz: i Think when you put a unit on "hold position" you receive a penalty in fact, but i may be wrong(i have a table of stats/numbers that indicates a "-3" when on hold position).

OUT4Blood: have you ever seen a snail on prozac? http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif just wondering...

Sensei Kocmoc (Bow of respect): You are right, it works only when you get the monks to attack the nags, and nags are so slooowwww. But what if i am the defender, i do not have to attack. You must attack me.....

Speed is a very important factor when attacking, but in my view less important when defending. When defending i think the most important, the advantage that you must use is positioning. Nags can help a lot in this regard.


Vanya: Referring to your post, I am an idiot http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif but i don't take it personnally. In any case , i am only an idiot when i defend on flat maps (but i hope to meet you on-line in a friendly game to show you wrong).

Weapons bonus yes, but don't forget armor upgrades also!!!!!

Sengoku: I Agree in SP they are usefull and much more efficient with the armor upgrades.

[Shuko]

KumaRatta

SPEED is what most of the strong players have whether defending or attacking. That perhaps is the main reason they beat you and me http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/frown.gif

Very rarely use naginatas for online play now and very few of my opponents use them.

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

In certain specific situations i still use some nags with some success.

Grant you it was not against the Kocmocs or the Lord Ted types.

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KumaRatta Yamamoto (Emissary of the ratta clan)Sonkei soshite yuki Ratta Ichizoku. Come and visit us : www.rattaclan.homestead.com (http://www.rattaclan.homestead.com)

[Satake]

They are excellent units to hold when u can reinforce. Have them take the initial punch and than send in a dachi or something to add some smash power.

[CeltiberoSkullXIII]

well done