Some ransom

[Gilrandir]

Do you pay ransom if your troops are captured?
I never do. What's the use? I tried couple of times but the units you get back are mostly rubbish ones and the general (if he returns) suffers a lot in terms of vices. And what should I do with the ex-captives? Retrain them? It would take a lot of time, you can produce brand new units meanwhile.

[Stazi]

I agree. General who was captured is lost for me. He gets vices decreasing army morale which is the most important parameter for all units. That's why I rarely fight battles which I'm not sure to win. Retreating to your stronghold or even abandoning a province is much less painful in the long run.

btw I recently fought a battle where my general was captured during first half of the battle (biggest fault - my general's Katas charged Saracen Infantry with 4 or 5 valour). Some of the weaker units started to run away but I managed to gather few stronger but wavering units and counterattacked. Finally, I captured enemy general, won the battle and got my general back but he still got the "Captured" vice. It was very enjoyable battle but with so many losses it was no more than a pyrrhic victory.

[drone]

I never pay it. The troops worth paying ransom for usually don't run until they take big losses anyway, so you just end up paying for the dross.

[Ironside]

:inquisitive:

Captured line is the best morale line ever. It's good runner that gives morale penalties, while captured gives morale boosts (at the cost of stars, but that's fairly easy to regain). Now, since the general can only be captured after routing (once, if rallying and routing again, this becomes more complicated), it's very hard to get in battle and easier to get by retreating through sea ways, but it's very strong.

Natural leader is extremely hard to actively get or boost and the rest of the morale lines are random.

On average I agree on not paying for ransom. It's mainly useful if you still need to pay while retreating by sea or if there's some good units in there. I still usually do it but that's mostly as a tribute for service well done, unless they did do poorly. Then it's execution time. :stare:

[Gilrandir]

Speaking of capturing the enemy's generals (preferably kings), is there any sure way to do it. Sometimes, when you encircle him he gets captured, other times he gets killed. How can you ensure the capture hoping for ransom?

[Trapped in Samsara]

Hi

I always ransom my troops back if I have the florins. I consider it a matter of honour; sort of the MTW military covenant.

Plus, I think the AI always will if it can afford to.

Best regards
Victor

Sapere aude
Horace

[Prince Cobra]

Hi

I always ransom my troops back if I have the florins. I consider it a matter of honour; sort of the MTW military covenant.

Plus, I think the AI always will if it can afford to.

Best regards
Victor

Sapere aude
Horace

I agree with Victor. As a ruler, you are a father of your people and you are responsible for then. I must be with little cash or have suffered a very humiliating defeat in order to refuse ransom. Have in mind that my favourite faction are the Byz and I love playing in High Late, which means that I often play wars of attrition where my warriors die like flies but bring as many elite units of the enemy with them to the grave. I consider ransoming them back as a small gesture to their loyalty. And yes, Captured line virtues do a good work.

P.S. Stazi, cpatured generals usually do not get "Good runner" but "Captured". They do lose a star but add +3 morale to the troops, which could be useful.

[Prince Cobra]

Speaking of capturing the enemy's generals (preferably kings), is there any sure way to do it. Sometimes, when you encircle him he gets captured, other times he gets killed. How can you ensure the capture hoping for ransom?

Weak units such as the plain spearmen and other relatively weak units do a good job. The chance to capture the enemy general is far higher. If you manage to provoke a mass route of the army by crushing the wings and encircling many units you also get a good chance to bring the enemy general in chains.

P.S. Avoid situations, which make the enemy harder to break (no retreat possible, for example)

[Stazi]

:inquisitive:

Captured line is the best morale line ever. It's good runner that gives morale penalties, while captured gives morale boosts (at the cost of stars, but that's fairly easy to regain).

P.S. Stazi, cpatured generals usually do not get "Good runner" but "Captured". They do lose a star but add +3 morale to the troops, which could be useful.
Sorry, my fault. I always try to avoid my general being captured so I see those two very rarely. Thank you both for the clarification.

[Cyprian2]

I'm with Prince Cobra and Victor. Ransoming your men (when possible) is a point of honour. Here's an example from a campaign I played as the Swedes (XL + Tyberius). Inge the first and his carls had embarked on a raid against the pagan Estonians, where they fought like wild boars, but suffered eventual defeat. Inge sundered many a pagan skull before his horse was felled under him and he was delivered into heathen hands. They kept him and his surviving housecarls in a pigpen for three weeks before making this demand:

http://img37.picoodle.com/i5co/cyprian2/p9p3_503_uc6fw.png (http://i.picoodle.com/63ehwnph)

For ten men (and the king, of course)!

I gladly paid the ransom. The Swedish people sacrificed much for their good king (though they were never consulted in the matter). It took about twelve years to recoup the money, but you can be sure that Inge (who received the "captured" trait) returned to the Estonian shore and repaid the indignities of his captivity with interest.

http://img38.picoodle.com/s57o/cyprian2/urjx_99c_uc6fw.jpg (http://i.picoodle.com/919igkeb)

That's how the Swedes do it, anyhow. :laugh4:

[Gilrandir]

As a ruler, you are a father of your people and you are responsible for then.
What about your people's readiness (and sworn loyalty) to stand or fall by their king? If your army routed leaving their king and father in the hands of the enemy they don't deserve ransoming back. I ransom the captured back only if they had performed deeds of valor against the enemy that was much stronger. In this case the returned troops are given the place of honor and garrison the capital where they can bask in the grace of the king.
And, what do you do with the ransomed troops? If you disband them then it is a sheer waste of money.
But another connected question: when you capture the enemy's king you are sometimes paid the ransom, and other times you are refused. Can you be sure that you will get your money or is it a random choice of the AI?

[Trapped in Samsara]

Hi

I believe the AI will always ransom (and offer captured troops for ransom) if it has the florins. For the player not to do the same might be considered by some old school MTW players as an 'exploit'.

Regards
Victor

Sapere aude
Horace

[Prince Cobra]

What about your people's readiness (and sworn loyalty) to stand or fall by their king? If your army routed leaving their king and father in the hands of the enemy they don't deserve ransoming back. I ransom the captured back only if they had performed deeds of valor against the enemy that was much stronger. In this case the returned troops are given the place of honor and garrison the capital where they can bask in the grace of the king.
And, what do you do with the ransomed troops? If you disband them then it is a sheer waste of money.
But another connected question: when you capture the enemy's king you are sometimes paid the ransom, and other times you are refused. Can you be sure that you will get your money or is it a random choice of the AI?

Unless it is quite early in the game, the place of the Byzantine Emperor (with at least 1 heir in his stack) is not on the batlefield. My Emperors are actually administrators, stewards and sometimes a bit crack brained or lazy but are not really keen on leading the Imperial armies from the front. If I have spare heirs, I send them as generals. (you can see the idea to prevent a sudden ending of the dynasty here).

Usually my Emperors are very harsh towards their generals. It's most unforgivable to run from the batlefield, and the good runner/doubtful courage reputation destroyed the career of not one or two six star generals. If the general was truly great (which usually mean he defeated one or two armies of the mongols in High) the he might become governor of one of the Mediterranean islands and even command their conquests. If they are captured, this usually means ability to take the responsibilities of their mistakes and are ransomed back with the rest of the army. If they die ("Your general has fallen before the enemy onslaught"), their family receives honours for the loyal service of their member. If the general retreats in good order (withdraw buttons) he almost always receives a second chance. As for the people, if the defeat is truly humiliating, I sometimes deny ransom. But usually, I think they have done their best and deserve to be ransomed back. Then I retrain them to a full size units, which usually takes years with all the units. If I ransom back some mercenaries, nothing can be done and they are almost immediately sent back to the battlefield unless the units is too small (and ransomed back because of other units)

If you ever play with the Byzantines in High starting campaign with limited Varangians guard (say no more than 1-2 units per stack) or in Late, you will clash with a low morale and outdated army. Every battle against a Catholic opponent is a challenge. The key to crush a Catholic is to have more resources and more provinces to rebuild your army, even if you face a defeat. Victories are also often expensive, so more provinces are not a bad thing.

[Gilrandir]

I agree on the place of the monarch. It should not be on the battlefield unless it is the outset of the game or your monarch has at least one heir and has a lot of stars to enable him to successfully lead an army. But everything said in my post about the king applies to the general as well. The army should stay in battle defending the general as long as possible, then it may deserve a ransom after defeat.

[Madden]

Sometimes I get a crusading army caught across the map..when another faction takes my target province. Then I have to pay the ransom. Although sometimes it doesn't even let me have the option.

[drone]

Welcome to the Org, Madden! ~:wave:


I believe the AI will always ransom (and offer captured troops for ransom) if it has the florins. For the player not to do the same might be considered by some old school MTW players as an 'exploit'.
This is true, but maybe they cancel each other out? I try to butcher prisoners as often as I can!

[DEB8]

Generally speaking, I tend to ransome back troops if I have the funds to do so. I can't say I've noticed any drop in "quality" when I get these back.
That said, I do tend to annoy my troops by killing any prisoners I have taken if the battle is not going well, or if I am outnumbered. I will keep some when I know I've won though!

After a while the AI ceases to offer ransomes ( for a particular nation ), where I have killed prisoners ( of that nation ) previously. I have also known it to refuse to ransome a nations monarch. Perhaps that was due to the ease ( reckless attack of the Monarch's unit ) with which he lost the battle!

[Ciaran]

Strictly speaking, ransoming would almost always be the better option (I don´t do it often, though), as you get back your surviving veteran soldiers. And valour is never lost, but tracked by the game on a per soldier basis, according to the Beginners Guide. There is also an option to create logfiles showing it. So, while it seems like the valour rating of a unit goes down after retraining, that is only the average valour. So, especially if you have a veteran unit, or one that heroically fought before routing, you should consider ransoming those few surviving killing machines.

[Gilrandir]

Strictly speaking, ransoming would almost always be the better option (I donґt do it often, though), as you get back your surviving veteran soldiers. And valour is never lost, but tracked by the game on a per soldier basis, according to the Beginners Guide. There is also an option to create logfiles showing it. So, while it seems like the valour rating of a unit goes down after retraining, that is only the average valour. So, especially if you have a veteran unit, or one that heroically fought before routing, you should consider ransoming those few surviving killing machines.
As Drone in post #3 remarked, heroically fighting units usually take so heavy casualties that they are reduced to few people that will just dissolve in a mass of zero-value retrained unit soldiers. Besides, how can you be sure that you will get precisely that unit of outstanding fighters back, but not a heap of peasants?
By the way, does the AI return all captured soldiers or only some of them?

[Ironside]

As Drone in post #3 remarked, heroically fighting units usually take so heavy casualties that they are reduced to few people that will just dissolve in a mass of zero-value retrained unit soldiers. Besides, how can you be sure that you will get precisely that unit of outstanding fighters back, but not a heap of peasants?
By the way, does the AI return all captured soldiers or only some of them?

All of them.

Come to think about it, while the unit quality might be lower than normal (aka the UM runs easier than the knights), unless they're hit badly by v&v, the runners will at worst be valour 0 and probably higher (some veterans should've survived), so the quality of the ransomed men will be higher.
So quality wise, if your army didn't contain any fodder units, the ransomed men will almost always be better than fresh recruits (and the same quality in worst case scenario).