PC Gamer Opinion on Warlords Edition

[Puzz3D]

I just got my US PC Gamer paper mag for August, and it has a short opinion article on Shogun: Warlords Edition written by Dan Morris (extendedplay@pcgamer.com). He makes some comments that I haven't seen mentioned before.

As the Mongol commander, he felt the need to be very careful in deciding where to attack since you cannot train new troops. I can see that a major defeat could lead to the Mongols getting swept into the sea before their next batch of reinforcements arrive. At the same time, winning territory gets you koku with which to buy troops right? Those alternate considerations could make the strategic decision making for the Mongols quite interesting.

He describes the Mongol cavalry as "awesome". Also, he says the Ashigaru Crossbowmen are deadly against armored units, especially from elevated ground where they can presumably shoot over friendly troops, and I assume have greater range. I wonder if greater penetrating power is actually modelled when shooting down from a higher elevation?

Taisho location is shown on the radar map which might be old news, and I'm not sure why he feels this is a big benefit to using the battlefield ninjas since you can see the enemy taisho in 3D view.

The most interesting thing he mentions is that the new parameter, discipline, is affected by a unit's distance to the taisho. This would mean that keeping your taisho back away from the fighting would not be a good strategy, and loosing your taisho is going to mean an even bigger hit to your army overall. I know it's already pretty much "game over" when you loose your taisho, but, if this is true about discipline, it will benefit you to keep your taisho as close to the front line as you dare.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[Nelson]

I had the impression that Mongols don't actually buy troops. I thought the number of troops sent was improved by conquering but that you don't order what you want. Is this true? I wonder if the troops sent to you are influenced by the losses you have suffered thusfar. i.e If you have taken serious heavy cav losses will the Great Khan send more or is there a disconnect between losses and reinforcements.

Regarding the crossbowmen/psuedo musketeers, I regret that they are dangerous in as much as they were not present in fact. Then again, I have eschewed the rock, scissor, paper approach to unit design from the beginning whenever it doesn't conform to history. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif

The discipline aspect of remaining close to the taisho is a nice feature. Daring play is always more fun IMO and it makes the taisho even more valuable and useful.

[Puzz3D]

Nelson,

According to an answer in Question Time 3, you get wealth by conquering provinces which gives you larger reinforcements. The next sentence says that you also get reinforcements at particular set times. There is still that incentive to conquer provinces even though you apparently can't buy troops like I thought. However, the Mongols can't go crazy conquering because the Japanese can raise more troops while the Mongols are sitting there waiting for their reinforcements to arrive.

I could do without the crossbowmen as I could without guns in the regular game. I spent months trying to play online without guns. Ha ha. I can also do without the Kensai sight unseen, but that's a different thread.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 06-29-2001).]

[MagyarKhans Cham]

hmmm keeping a general close to teh troops also means keep the units close to the general . does that mean it is better to keep the units at one block in stead of having some doing nice ofrad moves?

[Koga No Goshi]

Units getting a morale bonus from being near the taisho was supposed to be an important component in this current version of Shogun, if they are beefing it up/adding it to the expansion then that's just bringing them up to their old promise in the manual. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif



------------------
Koga no Goshi

Why did you bring 16 Female Ashigaru? Keep clicking weather, they're only strong one week a month.

[Puzz3D]

MagyarKhans Cham,

I would guess that units with high discipline will be able to effectively operate away from the taisho, and units with low discipline should stay close to him.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[Kraellin]

i think yuuki is correct, which will be be nice. you shld now be able to make 1 or 2 units that can do wide forays around an army for tactical surprises. or set up ambushes by units set way off from the main body. this was always one of my complaints about the current version; even with high honor a unit off by itself as a wide flanker was almost worthless as it would rout VERY easily being so far from the main body.

anyone that doesnt think that proximity doesnt currently play a part in the game shld take a ca unit on a very wide flanking manuever sometime.

also, remember that the new maps are going to be significantly larger so wide tactics are going to be more important than before. all of the current maps are 20 x 20 tiles. the new ones are 30 x 30. that's 400 tiles current vs 900 tiles in the new. and if you dont count the red zone tiles in each, then it's 256 current tiles vs 676 tiles new. that's quite a large difference. tactics will prolly change quite a bit due to this and the new units and tweaks.

shld be fun,

K.

[Puzz3D]

Kraellin,

Concerning online play, what I'm thinking is that some units will be useful for operating away from the taisho because their basic disciline might be higher as it is with morale now. Monks and no-dachi have high morale and work well as flankers, whereas, cav archers do not work so well since their morale is lower. I believe morale goes up by +2 for every +1 increase in honor. So, you have some control over morale if you want to spend the koku. We don't know if discipline will change like that. In a cutomize army screen from a preview, the adjustable parameters are honor, weapon and armour.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[Kraellin]

oh, in your original post here i thought you were saying that discipline would be an adjustable parameter. so, if it's not, then the only way to raise it is going to be in raising honor? hmm, i'd have preferred it as a separate adjustment, i think.

K.

[Magyar Khan]

hmm what is better

30*30 or 40 * 22?

[Toda Nkosi]

30*30 is better as you have 4 fewer redzone tiles.

TN

[BanzaiZAP]

Maybe I'm just insane again, but I seem to remember in an early interview/preview mention of the Drill Dojo and Discipline. It not only had to do with morale, but also how the unit actually performed as a unit. For example, a low-discipline troop has a tendency to string-out when marching, and a low-D archer unit doesn't fire it's volley in one great whoosh. I can imagine that a staggered musket volley would not have the same morale-affect that a well-timed massed volley would. A high-D unit stays in close formation even when running, fires its arrows in one fell swoop, that kind of thing. That could make a big difference when you're maneuvering for position before the initial clash. The dis-organized army is more likely to get routed. Possible?

-- B)

[celtiberoijontychi]

From the historical point of view the discipline parameter ads a lot of accuracy to the game. It is known that the original smaurai would fight individual combats. Drill, formations, manouvering etc. were developed later and were distinctive of the power of a clan. Only best clans were able to equip and drill their troops uniformely.

[Kraellin]

ok, tosa informs me the new maps are 30 x 20, not 30 x 30, so my bad. if he's wrong then him bad.

even at 30 x 20, that's a 50% increase in size...or was it 20 x 30? no wonder i'm not an historian, i cant remember sh*t.

K.