Archers in S2TW vs previous TW games

[RedKnight]

It's clear that archers at higher elevations do not get any range advantage... wasn't there a range advantage in past TW games?

Also I just had a very clear demonstration that my archers hit targets in forest very poorly. I don't recall ever having considered this concept in past TW games.

Your thoughts?

Thanking you in advance - RK

[edyzmedieval]

Past games had range advantage - M2TW archers definitely had a range advantage. Bow Samurai and Bow Warrior Monks definitely do not have this, and it hurts when it comes to hitting the target from afar.

[frogbeastegg]

Yes, archers had a range bonus when on a hill in STW and onwards. Not sure when it disappeared, ETW, NTW, or Shogun II. I miss it.

Trees gave protection from ranged attacks from STW onwards, and I believe that still applies in some form in Shogun II. I get good results from my reflexive tactic of taking cover in trees when faced with an enemy which has a significant ranged advantage. Although I suspect that there has been a change in the way the engine deals with this kind of cover. In STW and MTW each arrow's flight was calculated individually based on its animation and it could hit obstacles before reaching the target. From RTW onwards it feels as if a calculation is made for the entire volley as it is launched and then the visual arrows act according to that calculation, going through objects and still hitting if necessary. The same applies when shooting out of tree cover, which is logical.

[Koga No Goshi]

This is not related to the issue of range, but is there some sort of bug or something with archer targetting? One thing I notice, since I keep my archers behind my spearline, is that once my spearline has been engaged with enemy infantry, even if I turn fire at will off and manually tell my archers to fire over the melee to the enemy archers distant, they won't do it. They continue to fire into the melee.

Anyone else notice this?

[aimlesswanderer]

Yes, the org has already noted serious issues with archers, and their fixation with targets. I just tell my few archers to turn around. I only have about 10-15% archers in my armies, mostly due to them being so fiddly to manage.

[Marshall Louis-Nicolas Davout]

No,the option is to make sure they're vetted units.Bow Samurai in this game have a far stronger advantage than I've seen.In previous total war games,RTW had it,M2TW had it,so does Shogun 2.Be warned though,Japanese archers did not have a good reputation,except maybe bow samurai,But they still were pretty much 50-50 out thee

[RedKnight]

Koga, the best (only?) way to make sure archers will fire at a specific target is to turn off auto-fire, and give them a target. However, this may cause them to move around to aim, which is not a good idea in a general clash. Maybe that button to hold in place, or whatever it's called, may help.

Aimless, I have 12 archers in my standard stack of 20, and I love them. Death from afar. Half the time (battling on a field) my 4 naginatas take the brunt, but the other half of the time (taking castles) I only suffer a dozen casualties. Castles are SO easy to take with a ton of archers, and meanwhile the nagis recover.

FBE, there is still evidence that arrows follow an individual path... if you come up behind on an AI's archers in a castle, every now and then, one of them is perfectly behind a lamppost, which all your arrows hit. But it's easily solved: moved your archer unit and it won't be hitting the lamppost any more.

Also FBE, I had not realized the significance of trees covering one from arrows. But it was very clear when my bow heroes tried shooting first at some bow samurais in the open, then at some bow sammies in the trees, right next to the first unit... volleys were only about a quarter or a third as effective. So now I too a trying to stay in trees, and not just to disadvantage enemy cavalry. And also trying to shoot enemies in the open if possible.

Thank you for chiming in, everyone. I guess Creative had to decide whether to have a fixed range or a 3D one. I wish they went with a 3D one, but the fixed range does make some things easier.

Thanks all!
RK