Glenn Beck has gone full Hubbard

[Lemur]

Well, who's going to make more money and have more love slaves, a media personality or a guy who founds his own religious sect? L. Ron Hubbard had the answer for that, and it looks like Mr. Beck is following in his footsteps (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/08/24/glenn-beck-in-israel-restoring-courage-and-armageddon.html).

Beck is now preparing his followers for Armageddon. On Monday, in the first of three rallies he’s holding in Israel, a mostly American audience gathered in the ancient Roman amphitheater in the northern seaside town of Caesarea to hear from Beck and leading end-times preachers like John Hagee and Mike Evans. “I have spent the last few years trying to find a solution to what’s going on the world,” said Beck, standing on a floodlit stage at the pit of the open-air structure, Roman columns behind him and the scent of the ocean in the air. “Anybody who’s listened to me or watched me for the last few years, you know about five years ago I said, ‘We’ve got to get off the exits. We’ve got to get off the exits. [I]We’re passing the exits!'”

His voice grew more and more urgent, sounding rather like Gene Wilder’s Willy Wonka narrating the Wondrous Boat Ride: “There’s going to come a time when there’s nothing but freeway and a cliff!” Then, suddenly oddly calm, he said, “We’re there.” From the crowd, there were scattered assents. “While there may not be a political solution, the good news is, the God of Abraham ain’t running for office!” The cheering crowd leapt to its feet. “Be not afraid! Know who he is! Know his face! Know that he is a God of covenants and a God of miracles! We are leaving the age of man-made miracles of spaceflight, and we are reentering the age of miracles of God.”

[Montmorency]

I hope they didn't damage anything. :(

[Veho Nex]

I lold so freaking hard, I seriously hope they serve some punch to these guys. They deserve it.

[Cecil XIX]

It might be useful for this discussion to hear Beck in his own words rather than relying on an editorial.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHKWldaW1Xk

[Rhyfelwyr]

He's hardly making a religious sect, this stuff is pretty mainstream in US Evangelicalism from what I gather.

I agree that the second coming will happen soon. 50/50 whether its in my lifetime or not.

[HoreTore]

He's hardly making a religious sect, this stuff is pretty mainstream in US Evangelicalism from what I gather.

I agree that the second coming will happen soon. 50/50 whether its in my lifetime or not.

The Rhy of the 3rd century probably said the same.


Meanwhile, for the rest of us, it's part-hey-time! Enjoy your prayers, church-boy! :smash:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Rhy of the 3rd century probably said the same.


Meanwhile, for the rest of us, it's part-hey-time! Enjoy your prayers, church-boy! :smash:

That's the thing, he does.

And you enjoy the sex.

Thing is....

One day he will have prayers and sex, whilst you will still just have sex.

[Papewaio]

One day he will have prayers and sex, whilst you will still just have sex.

Oh no, married atheist men still have to pray... ie get on their knees and appeal to a higher power to have sex.:yes: :creep: :laugh4:

[Montmorency]

Maybe Horetore holds sex in such high regard that the value he places on it exceeds the value Rhyfylwyr places on sex by the value that Rhyfylwyr places on prayer.

In that way they come out equal. :book:

[a completely inoffensive name]

Oh no, married atheist men still have to pray... ie get on their knees and appeal to a higher power to have sex.:yes: :creep: :laugh4:

You are doing it wrong.

[Ronin]

crazy rightwing and now turning on the religious thing.

so...I´m calling a gay sex scandal...in the next 6 months or so? :P

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Oh no, married atheist men still have to pray... ie get on their knees and appeal to a higher power to have sex.:yes: :creep: :laugh4:

...now how do I forward this post to Wasabe-san? 'scuse me, Wasabe-sama?

[Rhyfelwyr]

The Rhy of the 3rd century probably said the same.

3rd century Rhy would not have seen the return of the Jews to their homeland which is a big prerequisite for the second coming.

In fact it would have seemed impossible, unthinkable to 3rd century Rhy.

But Biblical prophecy never fails, its a brilliant book, all of human history and all of the future in one. And I can just read it and know what happens. Amazing!

[Centurion1]

3rd century Rhy would not have seen the return of the Jews to their homeland which is a big prerequisite for the second coming.

In fact it would have seemed impossible, unthinkable to 3rd century Rhy.

But Biblical prophecy never fails, its a brilliant book, all of human history and all of the future in one. And I can just read it and know what happens. Amazing!

3rd century rhy would be a good member of mother church :rolleyes:

[Samurai Waki]

3rd century Rhy would not have seen the return of the Jews to their homeland which is a big prerequisite for the second coming.

In fact it would have seemed impossible, unthinkable to 3rd century Rhy.

But Biblical prophecy never fails, its a brilliant book, all of human history and all of the future in one. And I can just read it and know what happens. Amazing!

Bollox. :laugh4:

[drone]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHKWldaW1Xk
Is it wrong to mute this while listening to Eulogy by Tool?

[Papewaio]

But Biblical prophecy never fails, its a brilliant book, all of human history and all of the future in one. And I can just read it and know what happens. Amazing!

Really? All of human history and all of the future? One would have to have a fairly narrow definition of humanity to get that.

I must have skipped the chapters on 'India', 'China', 'Japan' and the bit about how to find 'Australia'.

Not to mention the ones on advanced Calculus, Nuclear Power and how to program in Basic.

Or even the sections on how to write music for Hymns... seems I must have gotten the abridged version. :book:

I'm pretty sure most of the times I've swatted for an exam it wasn't a Bible I popped open... it might have been if I had studied Theology... but I'm pretty sure even Theologians have to use other books for reference in some of their topic areas.

[Tuuvi]

Ugh Glenn Beck. I think he gets worse and worse as time goes by, I remember when I was around 14 my dad used to listen to him on the radio and he seemed reasonable. Of course I was young back then and maybe I just didn't know any better :shrug:

[HoreTore]

That's the thing, he does.

And you enjoy the sex.

Thing is....

One day he will have prayers and sex, whilst you will still just have sex.

What is it with you christians and your obsession with sex?

[Major Robert Dump]

Ugh Glenn Beck. I think he gets worse and worse as time goes by, I remember when I was around 14 my dad used to listen to him on the radio and he seemed reasonable. Of course I was young back then and maybe I just didn't know any better :shrug:

No, h used to be very reasonable, then one of two things happened:

1) He figured out that reason does not sell, moderation does not influence and that fringers will believe anything if it somehow reinforces their already-held outlook.

2) He went in for that hospitilization, and they did something to him. They cut a wire, they gave some meds, whatever. But seriously, he was getting gradually worse and worse and after the hospitilization he lost it completely.

[Vladimir]

Beck does good theater, but still a little scary.


That's the thing, he does.

And you enjoy the sex.

Thing is....

One day he will have prayers and sex, whilst you will still just have sex.

You're young, and don't know this, but eventually the sex goes away too.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What is it with you christians and your obsession with sex?

What is it with you Norwegians and your obsession with sex?

Isn't that what you're always telling us though, that we have an unhealthy attitude to sex and need to get laid instead of doing all this praying?


You're young, and don't know this, but eventually the sex goes away too.

This explains why old peopkle pray more, first to have more sex, and then because they have nothing else worthwhile to do.

[Ronin]

You're young, and don't know this, but eventually the sex goes away too.

so does your heartbeat....is that a sign of it's unimportance?

[HoreTore]

What is it with you Norwegians and your obsession with sex?

Because I said "part-hey-time", I'm obsessed with sex? What kind of logic is that?



Isn't that what you're always telling us though, that we have an unhealthy attitude to sex and need to get laid instead of doing all this praying?

No.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Bollox. :laugh4:

It's just reality so what is there to argue about?

@pape: yeah, you know what I mean...

[Montmorency]

You're young, and don't know this, but eventually the sex goes away too.

What about senior sex?

[Vladimir]

What about senior sex?

You know. It's odd but I can't read the last two words of your post. I get to "about" then I feel a sense of fear and disgust that I have to look away.

I'm eating lunch! :sick:

[Beskar]

Reminds me of the new Torchwood series, it is only America that would make religious connections with everything.

[Fisherking]

So, Beck goes crazy and that is the trip-wire for everyone to go off talking about sex?

I saw the Jobs thread was about gold.

Is everyone having the 6 martini lunch, or what?

[Samurai Waki]

It's just reality so what is there to argue about?

What planet are you living on? It's not reality, and it never has been.

[HoreTore]

Is everyone having the 6 martini lunch, or what?

I have had my first two sober days since last wednesday.

It's rough to start a new school-year...

[Vladimir]

Reminds me of the new Torchwood series, it is only America that would make religious connections with everything.

Torchwood? Where it's all about sex with the main character?

What's another name for torch wood?

[Strike For The South]

This will get better before it gets worse

[Montmorency]

wo4re

Whore?

[Vladimir]

It's the end of the workday in France (actually, that was an hour or two ago). He's had too much wine.

[Strike For The South]

It's the end of the workday in France (actually, that was an hour or two ago). He's had too much wine.

Yes, but Im sweating it all out

IYKWIMAITYD

[lars573]

It's just reality so what is there to argue about?

@pape: yeah, you know what I mean...
Well it is true that some of Revelation's prophesies came true, 1000 years ago. Muhammad and Islam filled a huge check list of the anti-Christ prophesy. And yet here we are having this nice conversation.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

This will get better before it gets worse

You do realize, Strike that this is a bit of a cop out, since this post could be used to address virtually any topic at any time?

Almost as though you were cheating dear fellow. Naughty...naughty

[Rhyfelwyr]

What planet are you living on? It's not reality, and it never has been.

I'm living on the planet where the Jews returned to Israel and Jerusalem itself is divided just like the Bible said would happen shortly before the second coming.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Well it is true that some of Revelation's prophesies came true, 1000 years ago. Muhammad and Islam filled a huge check list of the anti-Christ prophesy. And yet here we are having this nice conversation.

"Apocalypse" means "unvieling", who says it has to happen in a day and not a few millenia?

I'm not saying I expect the second coming any time soon, but still.

[Papewaio]

It's just reality so what is there to argue about?

@pape: yeah, you know what I mean... :girlslap: ouch :grin3: :thumbsup:

Well my :2cents: you :angel: can believe that :end: and exorcism works on the :devil: and that my posts are a bit naughty :devilish: because I prefer to believe in the possibility of :alien: over the :devil: but my real penchant is :coffeenews:

[Lemur]

Well my :2cents: you :angel: can believe that :end: and exorcism works on the :devil: and that my posts are a bit naughty :devilish: because I prefer to believe in the possibility of :alien: over the :devil: but my real penchant is :coffeenews:
I think you have set new standards for epic use of icons. One internets for you, good sir.

Another report (http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2011/aug/24/glenn-beck-empty-jerusalem-rally?intcmp=239) on Beck's newfound philosemitism. I'll admit, he isn't starting a new sect of Christianty as such, not just yet, but I think the Yacht full of religious love-slaves can't be far off.

[lars573]

"Apocalypse" means "unvieling", who says it has to happen in a day and not a few millenia?

I'm not saying I expect the second coming any time soon, but still.
The Bible for one.......

[Hax]

I'm living on the planet where the Jews returned to Israel and Jerusalem itself is divided just like the Bible said would happen shortly before the second coming.

But the Jews returned to Israel many times before, under the Persians and later under Muslim rule and one could suggest that Jerusalem itself was divided, seeing how the Jews lived in neighbourhoods of their own. Interpretation, y'know.

[Centurion1]

But the Jews returned to Israel many times before, under the Persians and later under Muslim rule and one could suggest that Jerusalem itself was divided, seeing how the Jews lived in neighbourhoods of their own. Interpretation, y'know.

I do not share Rhy's beliefs but you are not presenting anything of value. Rhy is drawing his beliefs from the New Testament Revelations and your Persian example is inaccurate. Also the Jews need to be returned to their homeland in an independent state which makes the Muslim example rather far fetched.

[Tellos Athenaios]

I do not share Rhy's beliefs but you are not presenting anything of value. Rhy is drawing his beliefs from the New Testament Revelations and your Persian example is inaccurate. Also the Jews need to be returned to their homeland in an independent state which makes the Muslim example rather far fetched.

The Persian example would by Cyrus the Great whom allowed the Jews to chose whether or not they wanted to stay in Babylon after its capture by his forces. By that time many were thoroughly integrated in Mesopotamia so a lot stayed, nonetheless others did indeed pick up their stuff and relocate to Israel. IIRC there is even a classification in the literature for Jews returned from Babylon and another for Jews whose ancestors were not deported in the first place.

[Centurion1]

The Persian example would by Cyrus the Great whom allowed the Jews to chose whether or not they wanted to stay in Babylon after its capture by his forces. By that time many were thoroughly integrated in Mesopotamia so a lot stayed, nonetheless others did indeed pick up their stuff and relocate to Israel. IIRC there is even a classification in the literature for Jews returned from Babylon and another for Jews whose ancestors were not deported in the first place.

Learn some more about where Rhy is drawing his beliefs from and come talk to me.......

[Tellos Athenaios]

Learn some more about where Rhy is drawing his beliefs from and come talk to me.......

Sweetie, that's the magic of English for you:


Interpretation, y'know.

[Centurion1]

Sweetie, that's the magic of English for you:

What about chronology is that open to interpretation. Because I am pretty sure that Revelations came far far far after the persians.....

there's the magic of knowing what your talking about :thumbsup:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The Bible for one.......

Where?

[Rhyfelwyr]

What about chronology is that open to interpretation. Because I am pretty sure that Revelations came far far far after the persians.....

there's the magic of knowing what your talking about :thumbsup:

:smitten:

[Tellos Athenaios]

What about chronology is that open to interpretation. Because I am pretty sure that Revelations came far far far after the persians.....

there's the magic of knowing what your talking about :thumbsup:

Would that be the same revelations which has been reshuffled to mean whatever the author wanted it to mean so as not to face disappointment (again)? Yes, yes, that would be those. Whereby we are back at interpretation. Hint: Hax dropped the magic word “before”. Another: theological works are not exactly scrupulous about mixing past, present and future, metaphorically or not. (One could quite well see the Return of the Jews as not just another prophecy, you know. One could go on to say it is a metaphor in and of its own, and that it lends emphasis on the continuity of the Bible's prophecies/God's will regarding the Jews who are displaced time and again only to be restored anew...)

[Centurion1]

Would that be the same revelations which has been reshuffled to mean whatever the author wanted it to mean so as not to face disappointment (again)? Yes, yes, that would be those. Whereby we are back at interpretation. Hint: Hax dropped the magic word “before”. Another: theological works are not exactly scrupulous about mixing past, present and future, metaphorically or not. (One could quite well see the Return of the Jews as not just another prophecy, you know. One could go on to say it is a metaphor in and of its own, and that it lends emphasis on the continuity of the Bible's prophecies/God's will regarding the Jews who are displaced time and again only to be restored anew...)

This children is a perfect example of when an internet denizen refuses to admit they are wrong. This is a prime example of why arguing about anything on the Internet is a colossal waste of time.

[Papewaio]

The Internet is a smorgasboard... You don't have to digest every part of it.

[Tellos Athenaios]

This children is a perfect example of when an internet denizen refuses to admit they are wrong. This is a prime example of why arguing about anything on the Internet is a colossal waste of time.
Yes, it is. I like you, too if it makes you feel happier. I'm well aware revelations is considered to play out afterwards. What I'm telling you is that just reading revelations gives you little, very little. That much has been argued successfully before by Augustine: he moved the goal posts of the whole debate & interpretation of the passage firmly from the realm of the “literal how it's going to happen” to that of the “metaphorical is okay, too”. Now, I'm not 100% sure how the various protestant flavours of ice cream go with this, but it has been the major way of going about Revelations since. Hax therefore has a very valid point to make that Jews returning to Israel means very little and that, possibly, revelations merely fits in a metaphor of historical continuity one which might even be intended by the original author (although that is just my personal speculation/veering off). Why is that so hard to grasp?

[Papewaio]

I think you have set new standards for epic use of icons. One internets for you, good sir.

:bow: I've defeated trolls with little more then emoticons ~;)

One Internet whilst being a virtual currency must have more inherent value then drachmas for the near future...

[lars573]

Where?
Don't know, got bored with the episode.

[Banquo's Ghost]

What is it with you christians and your obsession with sex?

The following educational documentary may help answer your question:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk

[Vladimir]

Something disturbing about naked children singing about sperm. Yuck.

[Hax]

Tellos, thanks for saying everything I wanted to say. I think it's virtually impossible trying to discuss historical influence on religious texts with religious people, as the infallability of those texts is being doubted which, in the eyes of religious people, should not happen. Same goes for trying to analyse early Islamic history.

[Shibumi]

I'm living on the planet where the Jews returned to Israel and Jerusalem itself is divided just like the Bible said would happen shortly before the second coming.

See, statements like that is what make me cringe a bit.

Yes, the Jews did return to Israel. But there was kind of a lot of political and cultural factors behind it. It was not so much about a flaming angel ordering them there, as it was half their pop being gased to death - and then the western world wanted to make up for it, and made their dream come true. As their primary dream was to return, they did get to return.

I do not see the whole God's Hand in it. Unless he planned for Hitler to gas of a few millions, and if so, it isn't a God I really like anyway.


To put it short, I do believe that the Jews are religious fanatics, and their return to Israel has very much to do with this fanaticism. If you dream of it, it will come true. They dreamt of being there, and through a whole lot of hardships they got there, too bad half of them would have to be killed on the way. But is there any religious factors involved in it - not really.

[Centurion1]

Okay Hax Tellos you just sound foolish right now. It is a matter of bleeding time it has nothing to do with bloody interpretations. Revelations was written after Jesus walked the earth. I'm not going to claim it was written by John himself in so ad so year but the fact it was written after 1 AD is correct. Now if you understand the timeline of the world in the slightest you will realize the Persian empire came far far before that. However, you seem to misunderstand either when Revelations was written or when the Persian Empire existed. If the Persian Empire was the group who placed the Jews back in Israel (impossible for several other reasons but let us focus on this) then the world would already have ended theoretically. And what precisely would be the point of Revelations if it already happened....

[Tellos Athenaios]

Okay Hax Tellos you just sound foolish right now. It is a matter of bleeding time it has nothing to do with bloody interpretations. Revelations was written after Jesus walked the earth. I'm not going to claim it was written by John himself in so ad so year but the fact it was written after 1 AD is correct. Now if you understand the timeline of the world in the slightest you will realize the Persian empire came far far before that. However, you seem to misunderstand either when Revelations was written or when the Persian Empire existed.

You're like Dr. Watson. Very keen, very good, and completely missing the relevant point: that “the Jews having returned to Israel” one more time is just that, one more time in their very long history of doing so.

Now for the encore, which is my conjectural revelations author type: maybe the person saw the writing on the wall for the Jews at the time who would later be called Christians? This is a self-identifying Jew writing your revelation about one day “we will be back” based on nothing more than a history of Jewish diaspora and repatriation?


If the Persian Empire was the group who placed the Jews back in Israel (impossible for several other reasons but let us focus on this) then the world would already have ended theoretically. And what precisely would be the point of Revelations if it already happened....

Well you see, that was precisely the problem Augustine faced. The city. Well that used to be obvious: Roma, the Roman Empire. Except it fell, he saw it happen. So either revelations had already come to pass in which case the end was nigh, or indeed maybe not: maybe taking revelations literally was not the way forward after all...

[Hax]

Okay Hax Tellos you just sound foolish right now. It is a matter of bleeding time it has nothing to do with bloody interpretations

Well, everything has to do with interpretations. Can you read classical Greek? How about Hebrew? The Second Coming, the Apocalypse and the Rapture have been prophesied several times before using the exact same texts you and Rhy do now. From the very moment that Jesus died, people have been expecting his return, from the Destruction of the Temple to Miller's cult in the 1800's up to today, and it still hasn't happened. So excuse us when we get a bit skeptical.


Revelations was written after Jesus walked the earth.

I don't doubt this.


Now if you understand the timeline of the world in the slightest you will realize the Persian empire came far far before that.

Don't hold us for idiots. Thank you very much.

Yes, the Persian Empire came afterwards. What did the Persian Empire bring with them? Zoroastrianism, which probably influenced Jewish mysticism and the religion as a whole with its dualistic philosophy. There are several myths in Zoroastrianism as well that deal with end times and how it would appear. Not to mention that Zoroastrianism has the oldest eschatology in the history of religion. It predicts the coming of the saoshyant (or saviour, Gr. Soter, He. Messiah) that will cleanse the world of all evil after a great battle between the forces of good versus the forces of evil, the righteous will immediately go to paradise, the wicked are first made to suffer for three days before being forgiven.

It might very well be possible that the Jewish views of the end of the world were influenced by the Persians, and it's not that big of a leap to make. Especially when you realise that Cyrus the Great was regarded as a messiah (Isaiah 45:1);


1 “This is what the LORD says to his anointed,
to Cyrus, whose right hand I take hold of


If the Persian Empire was the group who placed the Jews back in Israel (impossible for several other reasons but let us focus on this)

What? How was it impossible? The Jews were given the liberty to reconstruct the Temple (after it had been destroyed by the Babylonians) and many Jews returned to Israel (even though a large community would remain in Babylon)


then the world would already have ended theoretically.

Who knows, maybe it did. I was present at a lecture by the English professor Roland Rotherham a couple of years ago concerning exactly this. He used the analogy of the explosion of the Vesuvius in 70 AD. Imagine you being there, minding your own business, when the very next moment the earth itself starts to shake, ashes and rocks come falling down from a darkened sky until molten rivers come down from the mountains.

Doesn't that sound much like the end of the world?


And what precisely would be the point of Revelations if it already happened....

To tell a story?

EDIT: I just looked it up. Centurion, even the Bible itself mentions that the Persians allowed the Jews to return. Still, the Bible has been wrong on other points (such as the treatment of the Jews by the Babylonians, but eh).

[Banquo's Ghost]

To put it short, I do believe that the Jews are religious fanatics, ...

The Jews? Every last one of them? :inquisitive:


See, statements like that is what make me cringe a bit.

I know the feeling.

[Shibumi]

The Jews? Every last one of them? :inquisitive:

My bad, let us not generalize and speak of each and every individual. Do you want to go first?



I know the feeling.

For someone who get the feeling, you do not seem to work with me here.

[Beskar]

Torchwood? Where it's all about sex with the main character?

What's another name for torch wood?

I just saw the latest episode... this always happens when British shows go to America, they ruin them. :cry:

Torchwood wasn't that good anyway, but they definitely made it worse.

[HoreTore]

The Jews? Every last one of them? :inquisitive:

I immediatly disregard any post talking about the Jews.

Blame the nazi's all you want, but group thinking about "jewishness", ie. motives and characteristics, are unacceptable to me.



Beaides, due to the diaspora, the Jews are probably among the most diverse population groups in the world, if not the most diverse.

[Rhyfelwyr]

@Hax, Tellos: this has nothing to do with "interpretation" or the supposed hopelessness of arguiging with religous folk. You are telling me my understanding of it is wrong because you are telling me how was fulfilled... except this was hundreds of years before it was made... kind of bizarre...


Yes, the Jews did return to Israel. But there was kind of a lot of political and cultural factors behind it. It was not so much about a flaming angel ordering them there, as it was half their pop being gased to death

It's all very consistent with their history in the Old Testament.


I do not see the whole God's Hand in it. Unless he planned for Hitler to gas of a few millions, and if so, it isn't a God I really like anyway.

He is like that, its pretty clear in the Old Testament.


To put it short, I do believe that the Jews are religious fanatics, and their return to Israel has very much to do with this fanaticism.

When Zionism became a serious movement it was strictly secular and nationalist, it took a long time for it even to gain any acceptance with the more religious elements in the Jewish diaspora. Because the idea of forming the Jewish state in their homeland without their messiah kind of goes majorly against their religious beliefs...


But is there any religious factors involved in it - not really.

It's more than coincidence, show me another people in history that have a history anything like that little desert tribe God chose thousands of years ago.

[Centurion1]

Personally I like the way they are now lumping me in with you. Since you know Roman Catholics and whatever heresy you practice are one and the same.

[Montmorency]

It's more than coincidence, show me another people in history that have a history anything like that little desert tribe God chose thousands of years ago.

The Atlanteans.

Why insist on debating against faith? It merely feeds the vanity of each of those involved.

[Papewaio]

It's more than coincidence, show me another people in history that have a history anything like that little desert tribe God chose thousands of years ago.

Length of history or turmoil?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Personally I like the way they are now lumping me in with you. Since you know Roman Catholics and whatever heresy you practice are one and the same.

Because this is the internet and you are either an atheist or a fundamentalist.


The Atlanteans.

Why insist on debating against faith? It merely feeds the vanity of each of those involved.

Atlanteans? You are just being obtuse because you don't have an answer to my question.

As for vanity I would look at the more 'intellectual' posts atheists make on such topics and that can be seen in this thread. It sounds good but its plain rubbish and irrelevant.

I can use flowery language too but these days I can't be bothered. Sometimes just looking around you is good enough.

[Hax]

It's more than coincidence, show me another people in history that have a history anything like that little desert tribe God chose thousands of years ago.

> Suggesting that the genetic make-up of the Jewish people has been stable since ..."thousands of years ago".

[Rhyfelwyr]

> Suggesting that the genetic make-up of the Jewish people has been stable since ..."thousands of years ago".

Without getting bogged down debating the racial purity of the Jews, I think it is remarkable enough that a group even identifying as them has survived being scattered abroad and persecuted to such and extent, gave so much to the world, and come to have their own state.

But I know some people who will tell you modern 'Jews' are descended from Mongolo-Khazars and so not really Jews, but those people tend to be RACISTS.

[gaelic cowboy]

hmm let me see something is not right here "etc etc etc he Jews returned to Zion/Israel etc etc etc" and there was me thinking plenty of them never left Israel no matter who owned it.

well seems like were still waiting for them to leave yes/no? if thats the case then none of this has even got close to being fullfilled.


Why would evangelicals be havin these love in's with Beck anyway sure is he not a Morman, I always thought that was like a red rag to a bull with those sort of people.

[Rhyfelwyr]

hmm let me see something is not right about this statement "etc etc etc he Jews returned to Zion/Israel etc etc etc"

and there was me thinking plenty of them never left Israel no matter who owned it.

well seems like were still waiting for them to leave yes/no? if thats the case then none of this has even got close to being fullfilled.

Took me a moment to get what you were saying there, you still drunk from celebrating Shamrock Rovers success while the Old Firm bow out to Swiss and Slovenian minnows?

But you are conflating Jews and Israelites. They are not the same.

[gaelic cowboy]

Took me a moment to get what you were saying there, you still drunk from celebrating Shamrock Rovers success while the Old Firm bow out to Swiss and Slovenian minnows?

:laugh4:


But you are conflating Jews and Israelites. They are not the same.

Even if the words belong to differ groups it still hardly means they "ALL" left.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Even if the words belong to differ groups it still hardly means they "ALL" left.

Well Jewish populations in Israel was negligible until 19th c. settlers came...

[Tellos Athenaios]

@Hax, Tellos: this has nothing to do with "interpretation" or the supposed hopelessness of arguiging with religous folk. You are telling me my understanding of it is wrong because you are telling me how was fulfilled... except this was hundreds of years before it was made... kind of bizarre...

Except we're not telling you that. We're pointing out that “the Jews returned to Israel” time and again, which means there is nothing to lend credence to the suggesting this time somehow is the charm. As opposed to all those other Great Disappointments.

Or if you want it simple: you pointing at Israel and pointing at revelations and saying “look, the Jews returned, it must be true and this is part of it” is of roughly the same level of sophistication as (and given how many times they returned rather less convincing than) the evidence for the FSM and that He is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia seeing as how global temperatures are linked to the worldwide number of pirates...

[Tellos Athenaios]

Since you know Roman Catholics and whatever heresy you practice are one and the same.

I would never suggest Catholicism is the same as Calvinism. The one is about pole dancing for Jesus the other about a ban on fun.... :book:

[Montmorency]

Without getting bogged down debating the racial purity of the Jews, I think it is remarkable enough that a group even identifying as them has survived being scattered abroad and persecuted to such and extent, gave so much to the world, and come to have their own state.

But why would this be teleologically significant?

[Tuuvi]

Why would evangelicals be havin these love in's with Beck anyway sure is he not a Morman, I always thought that was like a red rag to a bull with those sort of people.

It's true that evangelicals hate Mormons, but Beck never talks about Mormon specific doctrine and it seems as though his personal beliefs kind of have an evangelical bent to them. I bet some of his evangelical fans don't even know he's Mormon, the ones that do are just like "Oh well he doesn't force his beliefs on us so he's cool"

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I would never suggest Catholicism is the same as Calvinism. The one is about pole dancing for Jesus the other about a ban on fun.... :book:

To be fair, I do not believe that the Holy Father would agree entirely with this characterization. Just a little bit of reduction to absurdity going on...a teensy bit.

[Tellos Athenaios]

To be fair, I do not believe that the Holy Father would agree entirely with this characterization. Just a little bit of reduction to absurdity going on...a teensy bit. Which is presumably why they eventually canned the Holy Dances (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/27/playboy_mansion_mona/)...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Which is presumably why they eventually canned the Holy Dances (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/05/27/playboy_mansion_mona/)...

This is the Church of which you speak. Resolution in only a few years is exceedingly prompt. Confirming that Galileo should not have been on trial for heresy was "eventually." Holy Mother Church takes a more considered pace with most things.

[Montmorency]

Except with Chinese bishops.

[Slyspy]

So go back a bit, surely the question of whether Revelations or the Persians came first is irrelevant? Is God constrained by timelines? Are the features of the Apocalypse decreed by God or by the act of writing them down?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Don't know, got bored with the episode.

You mean, "I heard it somewhere".

Revelations does not provide a commentary or a timeline, its just one long stream of conciousness muschroom trip.

[Hax]

"And then there were like these horsemen, dude, like, totally rad and stuff."

[a completely inoffensive name]

People actually read the bible?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

People actually read the bible?

That was a lazy troll.

Go and sit in the corner until you have something better.

[a completely inoffensive name]

That was a lazy troll.

Go and sit in the corner until you have something better.

You mad bro?

I'm sorry, I posted this in the wrong thread. If this was about the US christian population in general, I would be voltaire right now, but you guys are having your prophecy debate so forgive me.

[naut]

Is it wrong to mute this while listening to Eulogy by Tool?
MUST. TRY. THIS!

[Vladimir]

I just saw the latest episode... this always happens when British shows go to America, they ruin them. :cry:

Torchwood wasn't that good anyway, but they definitely made it worse.

Look at what they did to Gordon Ramsay! And Being Human. And Top Gear. And...:angry: