Discussion thread for diplomatic relations and reputations...

[Arjos]

As you all know in M2TW the diplomacy is much more detailed than RTW, so I wanted to make a list with all the known factions for EBII and put together all infos about diplomatic stances...
For example in 273 BC the Romani agreed to friendly terms with Ptolemaios II, something iirc wasn't present in EB (and btw why? :D)...

These are the ingame "factors", don't know how they will be renamed in EBII, but the scale should be the same:

Reputation:
Despicable
Deceitful
Very untrustworthy
Untrustworthy
Dubious
Mixed
Reliable
Very Reliable
Trustworthy
Very Trustworthy
Immaculate

Relations:
Abysmal
Terrible
Very poor
Poor
So-so
Reasonable
Amiable
Good
Very Good
Outstanding
Perfect

Arche Seleukeia: dubious
Aruernoi: mixed
Baktria: mixed
Boii: dubious
Bosphoros: reliable
Epeiros: untrustworthy
Getai: reliable
Haedui: mixed
Hayasdan: reliable
Karthadastim: dubious
Koinon Hellenon: untrustworthy
Lugiones: mixed
Lusotannan: reliable
Makedonia: dubious
Massylim: mixed
Pahlava: mixed
Pergamon: dubious
Pontos: mixed
Pritanoi: mixed
Ptolemaioi: dubious
Romani: dubious
Saba: mixed
Saka: mixed
Sauromatae: mixed
Sweboz: mixed
Taksashila: mixed
Eleutheroi: mixed

Alliances:

Arche Seleukeia-Baktria/Pahlava (satraps): reasonable
Arche Seleukeia-Hayasdan: so-so
Arche Seleukeia-Makedonia: amiable
Arche Seleukeia-Pergamon: reasonable
Arche Seleukeia-Pontos: so-so

Bosphoros-Koinon Hellenon: very good

Hayasdan-Baktria/Pahlava/Pontos: reasonable

Karthadastim-Lusotannan: reasonable
Karthadastim-Massylim (protectorate): poor
Karthadastim-Ptolemaioi: reasonable
Karthadastim-Romani: reasonable

Koinon Hellenon-Ptolemaioi: reasonable

Romani-Ptolemaioi: reasonable

Wars:

Arche Seleukeia-Ptolemaioi: terrible
Arche Seleukeia-Saka: very poor

Baktria-Saka: poor

Bosphoros-Sauromatae: very poor

Epeiros-Makedonia: terrible
Epeiros-Romani: terrible
Epeiros-Karthadastim: terrible

Hayasdan-Sauromatae: very poor

Koinon Hellenon-Makedonia: terrible

Pahlava-Saka: poor

Pontos-Ptolemaioi: very poor

Neutrals:

Every enemy's allies to poor, all the rest to reasonable, with these exceptions:

Aruernoi-Haedui: so-so
Boii-Romani: so-so
Getai-Makedonia: so-so
Makedonia-Sauromatae: so-so

Anyone wanna add something else or change anything?

Hope this can be of any help :)

[B-Wing]

I got no suggestions to offer, but I think this is a pretty sweet endeavor on your part and I'm impressed. :2thumbsup: Everytime I see something like this it makes me start having EB withdrawals.

I do have a related question, though, if it's appropriate to ask here. Classical history is not my strong point, but I always thought it was strange that the Roman Republic and the Empire of Carthage start the game as allies. I guess that's because the series of Punic Wars are so famous. But I was wondering how this affects the gameplay of EB2. In EB1, I never saw Rome and Carthage break their alliance, much less go to war. I'm wondering if the starting alliance state effectively prevents the AI from allowing epic warfare between the two to break out.

I understand, of course, that EB is not intended to be history on rails. But I think we'd all agree that seeing the Punic War emerge in most campaigns is an enjoyable thing, even when you're not playing as either of the two factions involved. Perhaps if Carthage and Rome began as allies, but with significantly poorer relations, they would be more likely to go to war at some point?

[Olaf The Great]

I think Epeiros should be lower Rep since Pyrrhos' mercenaries looted Aigai.

[Arjos]

Perhaps if Carthage and Rome began as allies, but with significantly poorer relations, they would be more likely to go to war at some point?

I think that was due to the nonexistent naval invasions in EB, in my games once Rome gained control of Sicily it was all over, or the two factions got separated by the Eleutheroi or Epeiros...


I think Epeiros should be lower Rep since Pyrrhos' mercenaries looted Aigai.

Good point, also Pyrrhos managed to be hated pretty much by the whole greek world...

[stratigos vasilios]

Add another to the list:

The Faction of Arjos
Reputation: Despicable
Relations: Abysmal
At war with all players at start of game

:wink:

[Arjos]

You meanie! :D

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

And thes inter-faction "feelings" change while the campaign progresses, or are these static?

Does anyone know if these parameters are moddable / savegame-compatible during a campaign? Would open up pretty decent possibilities for epic rp-gamers.

[Arthur, king of the Britons]

And thes inter-faction "feelings" change while the campaign progresses, or are these static?

They change, for example once when played as England I never started a war with any faction (I let them attack me instead) and my reputation went from Mixed to Immaculate in a some hundred years. Though I kinda ruined it when I declared war on all of Europe (after which I was known as being Despicable). The same of course goes for Relations as well.


Does anyone know if these parameters are moddable / savegame-compatible during a campaign? Would open up pretty decent possibilities for epic rp-gamers.

I'm not sure, I hope so.

[B-Wing]

Oh yes, faction standings and faction relationships are dynamic and vary over the course of the game in response to their actions. I'm not clear how much they actually affect the gameplay, but they definitely change.

[Arjos]

And thes inter-faction "feelings" change while the campaign progresses, or are these static?

They change, I tried to set them according to the events prior to the EB start date...
In theory they help to keep alliances, avoid factions attacking trusted ones for no reasons etc...

[Populus Romanus]

Can they be modded at the start date or are they all so-so by default?

[Ca Putt]

I'm pretty sure they vary from the beginning even in the vanilla campaign, so It'd be silly if they would not be moddable.

[Arjos]

Can they be modded at the start date or are they all so-so by default?

They can be modded :)

[Captain Jazzy]

I know this is going slightly OT but reading this thread reminded me of a feature in Med II. I can only remember it happening once or twice but an opposing faction would approach you with a "deal". For example the HRE faction heir offered me the ability to kill the faction leader and put him in charge in return for money and an alliance. This seemed a pretty cool feature to me and would have lots of potential in EB, im sure the team is already aware of it but does anyone know if they have any plans regarding this feature? It would certainly spice diplomacy up.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I know this is going slightly OT but reading this thread reminded me of a feature in Med II. I can only remember it happening once or twice but an opposing faction would approach you with a "deal". For example the HRE faction heir offered me the ability to kill the faction leader and put him in charge in return for money and an alliance. This seemed a pretty cool feature to me and would have lots of potential in EB, im sure the team is already aware of it but does anyone know if they have any plans regarding this feature? It would certainly spice diplomacy up.

I never really got that to work though since it is almost impossible to assassinate Faction Leaders. Speaking of which, will we have better than a 5% chance to assassinate characters in EBII? I never even bother with assassins in EB because even if they got up to 10 subterfuge, I still only have a 25% chance on the newer family members traveling without armies. Only and other assassins are killable.

[Ichon]

The % chances of assassinations and some other events are very inaccurate. A 1 skill assassin with 80% chance will die 4 out of 5 times- nearly the opposite of what the odds say. Conversely a skilled assassin with only 5% might miss but rarely dies while a team of 3 high skilled assassins will almost always kill the target in 1 turn. Also spies in cities and armies change those odds as do ancillaries. An FL with good traits, ancillaries, and a spy traveling with him is almost invulnerable. An FL with only 1 or 2 out of the 4 might be tough but can killed.

[Cambyses]

The main job of assassins in vanilla is to kill other assassins, powerful heretics, spies, inquisitors, merchants, diplomats, princesses (aww) etc. ie to get rid of those "problems" that otherwise you just need to endure. Quite rightly, using lots of assassins makes your reputation plummet and encourages neutrals to attack you.

A secondary - and useful - function is to defend against assassination attempts.