View Full Version : Marathon Reenactment
antisocialmunky
09-07-2011, 00:58
ATHENS — Schinias Beach near Athens is no stranger to hordes in sandals flocking here every summer -- but a group arriving next week is less interested in the area's blue waters and seaside taverns.
A re-enactment of the Battle of Marathon is to be held here on September 10 to commemorate the historic Greek-Persian showdown in 490 BCE, with hundreds of participants in armour from around the world, organisers say
The three-day amateur event on the presumed battlefield, which has since been altered by soil erosion, will showcase Greek and Persian combat as well as dance, literature, crafts and cultural features from the Archaic period.
But the main feature will be a planned confrontation between the Greek and Persian 'armies', composed of up to 200 experimental archaeology fans.
"It has taken us three years to equip even that many," says Christian Cameron, a Canadian novelist and former US navy career officer.
"Correct armour and weapons -- not to mention period textiles and dyes -- take hundreds of hours to make," the 49-year-old organiser told AFP.
"Most people at Marathon will be wearing five to ten thousand euros ($7,200-14,500) worth of equipment, much of it made by hand," adds Cameron, who intends to portray an unnamed Greek aristocrat.
In addition to their custom-made armour and clothing, the participants will carry modified weapons including safe-edge spears for the Greeks and rubber-head arrows for the Persians.
"I believe this meeting will be the largest ever held in Greece, both in participants and duration," said Yiannis Kadoglou, a 23-year-old agronomy student from Thessaloniki.
One of history's most famous military engagements -- and one of the first to be recorded -- the Battle of Marathon is considered to have changed Europe's fate.
It galvanised the warring Greek city-states and demonstrated that the Persian Empire, the superpower of the age, could be defeated.
Aside from fighting, the re-enacters also plan period cooking, camping, an archery demonstration and a sprint in armour, "to show just how many shots a Persian archer could get off while a Greek hoplite charged him," Cameron says.
The organisers have asked the Culture Ministry for permission to march from the ancient Agora in Athens to the Acropolis in celebration of the victory.
No response has been given so far, though the local municipality is helping the initiative with camping and logistical support.
"We understand that these are difficult times in Greece, but we're a little startled by the lack of interest," Cameron says.
"I'd love to talk to the minister for ten minutes about the potential for re-enacting to enhance both Greek culture and tourism," he adds.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5giXKOki9zwN2XejyaKoeuqaSdlcw?docId=CNG.e640b6ebf4d3ef9d38c3cbe9706a3a05.1a1
Anyone in Greece that can film some of it? :yes:
Delta146
09-07-2011, 01:13
I've been following the forums of Taxeis Plataiai for a while now, and if they are anything to go by, it will be a very good reenactment. They won't be speaking real Ancient Greek, but aside from that they've gone to incredibly long lengths for high accuracy in their portrayals.
intresting to see full scale re in actments going on
That's very cool, hopefully at least something on youtube will be posted...
I have my theories about what happened, from reading here and there, but it will be nice to see what results they can get about the hoplite rush and persian arrow fire...
Why no steel arrowheads.....
Hey ASM you told me about other reenactment ideas a couple years back. Why don't you or some of us type an outline and reenact in EBO, save the replay, and I'll make a cinematic and post it online?
Hey ASM you told me about other reenactment ideas a couple years back. Why don't you or some of us type an outline and reenact in EBO, save the replay, and I'll make a cinematic and post it online?
Because AYE... Will make the cinematic.
Besides, I've always wanted to do reenactments.
~Jirisys ()
antisocialmunky
09-08-2011, 03:55
I don't want to wear armor with nipples, just look what happened in that one Batman movie - turned out horrible.
Why no steel arrowheads..... because steel arrow heads have more chance killing a person then a rubber one
Cute Wolf
09-08-2011, 16:08
I don't want to wear armor with nipples, just look what happened in that one Batman movie - turned out horrible.
you're not feeling sexy enough then
but maybe that kind of armour was sort of exggregation, they maybe can forge muscle shape, but doing little nicks for nipples seems impractical a lot.
Why don't you or some of us type an outline and reenact in EBO, save the replay, and I'll make a cinematic and post it online?
I would really like to help out if we get this up and running ^^
I would really like to help out if we get this up and running ^^
We'll need all the people we can get, but ASM always just teases and never really offers any substantive outline of what he envisions. That...son of a gun :laugh4:
Only problem here is that we dont have anything resmbling the Anusya.
I would have loved to be there but I was working .
If I get any pictures or videos I'll be sure to post them here .
Satyros
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To be continued .
Satyros
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A friend went and these are the pictures he took of the event .
Can't say anything else on the event , as I wasn't there .
Seems nice though .
:D
Satyros
Thank you very much for sharing them Satyros :)
Persians look fantastic! Not to mention all those bronze plates :O
stratigos vasilios
09-11-2011, 14:53
Great job (friend of) Satyros! :thumbsup:
Delta146
09-11-2011, 17:13
I really wish I could have been there, it looks absolutely fantastic.
Titus Marcellus Scato
09-11-2011, 17:57
Thanks for the photos. Must have been fun.
Sad to see way, way too few Persians though. I guess Greece and Turkey still aren't on good enough terms to invite hundreds of Turkish re-enactors to come to Greece and do the Persian side justice. And unfortunately Syria and Iran don't allow free travel.
Anyone can dress up like that. Not as if the whole army was made up exclusively of persians anyways.
Delta146
09-11-2011, 18:52
I heard there was a large Persian group from Bulgaria that was going to go, but they weren't there, not sure why.
Cute Wolf
09-12-2011, 09:05
fantastic :thumbsup:
Thanks very much the pictures!
~:thumb:
Sad to see way, way too few Persians though. I guess Greece and Turkey still aren't on good enough terms to invite hundreds of Turkish re-enactors to come to Greece and do the Persian side justice. And unfortunately Syria and Iran don't allow free travel.
I am a bit puzzled by this comment, since neither the Turks nor the Syrians have a connection to the Persian Empire. IIRC the Syrians are mostly Arab, but they definitely aren't Iranian. The only common denominator between Turkey, Syria and Iran is that they're Muslim countries; but the Persian Empire was not.
Well I guess it's more due to the reenactors preferences, thus you'd find few reenactors in Greece who have a Persian panoply at home, but quite a lot with a hoplon. In syria, Iran and Turky the general bias is probably different and thus you'd have mentionable numbers of "persians".
Plus a wicker paravent and an ancient Pajama is not nealy as impressive as an Aspis and a Corinthean ;) tho much more usefull in the world of today^^
Edit: great photos, looks like quite an event :)
Hey , no prob guys , I wish I could post a full report of the day too ...
:(
Anyway , I may find some more photos from another friend .
Do you want them ?
Or have you seen enough ?
Mind you , not pro-level photos , just some more similar to the above ones .
I can also post some small ( about a minute- minute and a half ) videos .
Let me know , as I don't want to spam photos etc all over the thread .
Satyros
Spam?! lol
These are interesting pictures, not random cat memes XD
Titus Marcellus Scato
09-13-2011, 00:02
I am a bit puzzled by this comment, since neither the Turks nor the Syrians have a connection to the Persian Empire. IIRC the Syrians are mostly Arab, but they definitely aren't Iranian. The only common denominator between Turkey, Syria and Iran is that they're Muslim countries; but the Persian Empire was not.
The common denominator between Turkey, Syria and Iran is that their land was part of the Persian Empire at the time of the Battle of Marathon, so in terms of reenacting that battle, re-enactors from those countries are more likely to identify with the Persian side than they are with the Greek side. That's obviously not true for most re-enactors from Greece itself. So if Turks, Syrians, and Iranians had come, there would have been a lot more 'Persians' at the re-enactment. Hence it's a shame there weren't hundreds of people from those countries at the event.
The common denominator between Turkey, Syria and Iran is that their land was part of the Persian Empire at the time of the Battle of Marathon, so in terms of reenacting that battle, re-enactors from those countries are more likely to identify with the Persian side than they are with the Greek side. That's obviously not true for most re-enactors from Greece itself. So if Turks, Syrians, and Iranians had come, there would have been a lot more 'Persians' at the re-enactment. Hence it's a shame there weren't hundreds of people from those countries at the event.
Just want to point out the dangers of such invalid reasoning. Take southern California, for instance, which is where I'm from. At least a portion of this land was where the Chumash community lived for many years. "So in terms of reenacting" any sort of battle or acting as a Chumash warrior, being from this land, does that make me "more likely to identify with the [Chumash]"? Not really. But considering Orientalism as the late Professor Edward Said has outlined it, it isn't surprising at all to come across similar expectations of peoples from the (Middle) East.
I agree with vartan, not to mention the myriad of autonomous mountain tribes, free areas in Phrygia, or even Cilicia which was very independet, the Persian empire was a crucible of societies...
TheLastDays
09-13-2011, 07:41
Thanks A LOT for these pictures, very interesting! And yes, would love to see more and I wouldn't consider it as spam, after all this thread is about that event ^^
spoiler tags would help though :sweatdrop:
Titus Marcellus Scato
09-13-2011, 07:56
Just want to point out the dangers of such invalid reasoning. Take southern California, for instance, which is where I'm from. At least a portion of this land was where the Chumash community lived for many years. "So in terms of reenacting" any sort of battle or acting as a Chumash warrior, being from this land, does that make me "more likely to identify with the [Chumash]"? Not really.
Not the same situation. The Chumash were never in a major battle. And you're probably of Spanish or American descent. i.e. the people who 'colonised' the Chumash. So you identify with the 'winning' side in that clash of cultures. Whereas most Turks are not of Greek descent and are less likely to identify with the Greek side of the Battle of Marathon (particularly since Turks and Greeks have been enemies in more recent history).
Well I guess it's more due to the reenactors preferences, thus you'd find few reenactors in Greece who have a Persian panoply at home, but quite a lot with a hoplon. In syria, Iran and Turky the general bias is probably different and thus you'd have mentionable numbers of "persians".
The common denominator between Turkey, Syria and Iran is that their land was part of the Persian Empire at the time of the Battle of Marathon, so in terms of reenacting that battle, re-enactors from those countries are more likely to identify with the Persian side than they are with the Greek side. That's obviously not true for most re-enactors from Greece itself. So if Turks, Syrians, and Iranians had come, there would have been a lot more 'Persians' at the re-enactment.
I agree with your reasoning, but I don't think you applied it far enough. The Greeks obviously identify with their own past, but what makes you think the Turks and Syrians wouldn't? Particularly the Turks likely don't care about the Persian Empire: it simply not part of their history. The Persian Empire was long dead when the Turks arrived in the region. If there is a skew towards identification with the past, it's most likely towards Turkish steppe warriors or the Ottoman Empire.
I don't know much about Syria, but isn't it a predominantly Arab country? The (brief) Arabic Empire replaced the Persian Empire, so they may have similar biases. Also, Pre-Islamic history doesn't interest most Arabs very much.
sorry I phrased that wrongly: I meant that In turky, syria and Iran you have less affiliation towards Greeks, thus it's more likely that those who are interested in ancient history get theirself a costume of a warrior that served in the Persian army - not exclusively meaning genuine persians but also for Turks: Carians, Lydians or whatever they find interesting. I don't think Turky has a Persian reenactment society quite as large as the bunch of guys with Corintheans In Greece.
Maybe I'm wrong and there actually are large "immortal" societies Satyros was reffering to.
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The pics the other friend took , to be continued
Satyros
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Satyros
I like the picture with the spear, shield and helmet, make it look like a tropaion ^^
I'm puzzled by the guy with the sagaris and aspis though, just what is he?
And the third and final portion of the pictures , from a third friend :
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Satyros
Delta146
09-13-2011, 21:17
I actually recognize one person in your sets of photos from the reenactment forums I visit.
Thanks for posting these, I really wish I had been able to go, but it's awesome to be able to see so many great pictures!
Not the same situation. The Chumash were never in a major battle. And you're probably of Spanish or American descent. i.e. the people who 'colonised' the Chumash. So you identify with the 'winning' side in that clash of cultures. Whereas most Turks are not of Greek descent and are less likely to identify with the Greek side of the Battle of Marathon (particularly since Turks and Greeks have been enemies in more recent history).
And the assumptions continue, hence why I originally replied. The Chumash are one example, I could name many. I'm an Armenian, so I don't have any of this 'stuff' at home to clothe myself in some old Native American or even Union soldier fashion. But so don't the majority of people I know who 'would' in your view. I don't see why most people would keep that kind of 'stuff' at home. As for 'identifying' with some side in an ancient battle, I don't identify with any side that ever fought in the Americas, Africa, or most of Europe and Asia. The fact is, I have Turkish friends and they know their history very well, as we all should our histories, and there is no doubt in my mind that they 'identify' with the ancient Persians just as much as I identify with the Chumash, namely zero.
But the key thing here is the following: the danger of such assumption-filled notions is that one takes modern nationality or ethnicity and tries to somehow correlate it to ancient states and thereby see which state a certain person would be better-suited to be a part of in a reenactment. I live about a 5 or 7 minute drive from Hollywood and I can assure you of one thing: you could have any background you wish, if you're a good actor and you pass the audition for a role in a reenactment, you will make it work, the director will make it work, it will happen. Have you ever found it funny that when we watch many an ancient war movie we see any ol' white man acting the lead and putting on some sort of Amer-British accent to boot? It's hilarious, and you don't see many folk act who would be considered 'identifying' with those peoples of the past and you don't see them speaking Greek, Persian, or whatever it may be, but it still works out. They can still reenact and play out the story because they need creativity, a script, direction, and so on. What they don't need is Persian blood, Greek blood, but red blood :yes:
TheLastDays
09-14-2011, 21:42
And the assumptions continue, hence why I originally replied. The Chumash are one example, I could name many. I'm an Armenian, so I don't have any of this 'stuff' at home to clothe myself in some old Native American or even Union soldier fashion. But so don't the majority of people I know who 'would' in your view. I don't see why most people would keep that kind of 'stuff' at home. As for 'identifying' with some side in an ancient battle, I don't identify with any side that ever fought in the Americas, Africa, or most of Europe and Asia. The fact is, I have Turkish friends and they know their history very well, as we all should our histories, and there is no doubt in my mind that they 'identify' with the ancient Persians just as much as I identify with the Chumash, namely zero.
But the key thing here is the following: the danger of such assumption-filled notions is that one takes modern nationality or ethnicity and tries to somehow correlate it to ancient states and thereby see which state a certain person would be better-suited to be a part of in a reenactment. I live about a 5 or 7 minute drive from Hollywood and I can assure you of one thing: you could have any background you wish, if you're a good actor and you pass the audition for a role in a reenactment, you will make it work, the director will make it work, it will happen. Have you ever found it funny that when we watch many an ancient war movie we see any ol' white man acting the lead and putting on some sort of Amer-British accent to boot? It's hilarious, and you don't see many folk act who would be considered 'identifying' with those peoples of the past and you don't see them speaking Greek, Persian, or whatever it may be, but it still works out. They can still reenact and play out the story because they need creativity, a script, direction, and so on. What they don't need is Persian blood, Greek blood, but red blood :yes:
red blood certainly helps :yes:
Just came in to second this, I totally agree.
Delta146
09-15-2011, 07:11
But the key thing here is the following: the danger of such assumption-filled notions is that one takes modern nationality or ethnicity and tries to somehow correlate it to ancient states and thereby see which state a certain person would be better-suited to be a part of in a reenactment. I live about a 5 or 7 minute drive from Hollywood and I can assure you of one thing: you could have any background you wish, if you're a good actor and you pass the audition for a role in a reenactment, you will make it work, the director will make it work, it will happen. Have you ever found it funny that when we watch many an ancient war movie we see any ol' white man acting the lead and putting on some sort of Amer-British accent to boot? It's hilarious, and you don't see many folk act who would be considered 'identifying' with those peoples of the past and you don't see them speaking Greek, Persian, or whatever it may be, but it still works out. They can still reenact and play out the story because they need creativity, a script, direction, and so on. What they don't need is Persian blood, Greek blood, but red blood :yes:
I can only agree with this. I know that at least several of the reenactors at Marathon were not residents of modern Greece. I myself live in North Carolina, about as far from Greece as anywhere, but I'm still interested in reenacting it (though I'm still in the early stages of development.) I certainly don't look like an Ancient Greek, but today, I doubt there's many who do. Same thing goes for any ancient culture to be reenacted.
Looks like my photobucket account reached its limit .
Sorry about that , I hope some of you got the pictures .
Satyros
antisocialmunky
09-20-2011, 05:43
Atleast that Herm/Satyr won't haunt our nightmares anymore.
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