The ten year anniversary of the September 11th attacks on the World Trade Centre

[Banquo's Ghost]

We are approaching the ten-year anniversary of this tragic event and undoubtably members will wish to comment.

This being the Backroom, many different opinions and analyses will be forthcoming. It is paramount that members understand that many people will still have raw emotions and indeed may have lost friends in the event itself or in the aftermath.

I would ask that all members posting in this thread remember the rules on respectful posting. Unpopular opinions are not disrespectful as long as they are carefully worded with regard to others' feelings and views. Similarly, opinions are not going to be censored merely because they may go against received wisdom.

What will happen is that any disrespectful or deliberately provocative posters will be removed summarily from posting further in the thread and any attempts to restart such provocation in another thread will lead to a temporary ban from the Backroom. If you find yourself in such a position, you now know why.

I would urge any member who feels concern about the content of a post to use the Report Post button rather than respond with intemperate language. That is not to say moderators will automatically agree, but we will review carefully. To note again, we are not going to censor analysis as long as it is respectful and well considered. I would also urge members posting to review their posts carefully before clicking the Post Now button. This should always be the case of course.

It is perfectly possible to discuss the event and what followed in an adult and respectful manner.

Thank you kindly.

:bow:

[Subotan]

Shall we use this thread to post about where we were when we found out?

[Banquo's Ghost]

Shall we use this thread to post about where we were when we found out?

If you wish.

[Fragony]

So it's 'not yet 9/11' day, don't remember anything specific

[Subotan]

Alrighty then.

I was walking back from school with my mum as a wee nine year old, when my mum said that there'd been a terrible accident in New York. We always got back to the house at 4pm, and we turned on the television just in time to see the second plane hit on live TV. James Kochalka (http://www.americanelf.com/comics/americanelf.php?view=single&ID=41457)probably captures my thoughts best on it; keep clicking next until 9/11 and the aftermath.

It's strange to think that there are people who were alive at the time who don't remember it because they were so young.

[Lemur]

Impressions:

Day off from work, which means you DO NOT WAKE DADDY UP. Then I get woken. Wife saying, "Somebody had an accident. Flew a little plane into the World Trade Center." Groggy, grumpy, looking at the TV. "That's not a small plane. Look at the scale." Arguing about whether it was an attack. My point: pilots are trained to ditch in water. Rivers on both side, bay to the south, ocean to the east, no way could that be an accident. Then the second plane and an end to argument.

Up on the roof, smoke billowing over the skyline. Everyone's on their roof, nobody's talking, just looking. Then the smoke starts to hit us and everybody retreats indoors. The smell is horrible. Chemical, black smoke. Brooklyn is shrouded. There's some dude rollerblading with a gas mask out there.

Confusion. Phones aren't working. All of the major cell providers were positioned in the Trade Center, and a major phone junction is in there. Nobody can get through. Rumors flying. There were six attacks. The white house is burning. Capitol building? Somebody said that. A plane is down because the passengers rebelled. More planes are coming. Pentagon attacked. Who knows? Cable is still working, so we're all huddled down with windows tight against the smoke, trying to get info. Horrible smell, horrible smoke.

Both towers collapse. Like a fist in your chest. Bridges closed, trains closed, nothing moving.

Later in the day, empty sky. No planes. Silence. Everybody knows somebody who was in WTC. Nobody knows who is alive, who is dead. More survivors than expected. No, that's wrong, everybody died. No, that's wrong, most everybody got out. Impossible to get good info.

Phone service slowly comes back. Loved ones in contact, tearful, glad to know we are okay. Lemur, don't you work in an investment bank? Yes, on the other side of town. I'm okay. We are okay.

Next day call for flags. Flags everywhere. A run on flags, nobody can get one. NYTimes prints a giant newspaper flag so people can have one. Smoke still horrible. I go out to get food with cloth over my face. In bakery, a couple of big Italian dudes are talking about finding some Arabs to beat up. "We gotta show these ************* what it's about, man. Get ours." I am worried; I know the Arab owners of several local businesses.

I hit a memorabilia show. Flags? No. I hit seven shops. No flags. I finally find a toy shop with little American flags, and buy them out. Run to the local Arab businesses; the restaurant, the pet food store, etc. Give them flags. The pet store owner is an eternally angry Palestinian immigrant. "I don't want that," he tells me. "You like your windows?" I ask. "You like not having your store on fire? Put up the ********** flag."

Waiting. Names coming out now. Everybody knows somebody. Shock. Everybody's donating blood; the lines for the local hospital and Red Cross are like trying to get into a rock concert. Volunteer stations swamped. Everybody wants to do something, more hands than there are tasks. Some people are heading to the entrance to the disaster site, just applauding workers as they enter and leave.

Wind shifts, smoke starts blowing up Manhattan instead of over Brooklyn. Suddenly the media notices the smoke (which we've been living with for two or three days). "Is this smoke toxic?" the well-coiffed newspeople ask on air. Idiots. Of course it isn't safe.

Lots more. But that was the first few days.

[InsaneApache]

My turn.

I was sat in my car outside my dentist in Barnsley having a coffin nail whilst my good lady wife was under the drill. Having nowt to do I listened to Mike Parry et al on TalkSport. Suddenly a newsflash that an aeroplane had hit the World Trade Center. The general opinion was that it was a light aircraft and that in the initial confusion, it was supposed that it was a terrible accident.

Pecking the coffin nail I got out of the car. I walked over the road to the dentist and spoke with Jill the nurse and told her what I'd heard. Straight away we went to the waiting room and turned the telly on. After about five minutes watching events unfold we both witnessed live the second plane hitting the tower. We both knew then that this was a terrorist attack.

Driving back up the M1 to Leeds we listened as the towers collapsed. I admit to laughing which seemed highly inappropriate but the whole thing seemed unreal and otherworldly. It was just so hard to take in what was happening. Hysteria I suppose.

We didn't see any footage until we'd finished work but listened all day to the radio.

When I did view the footage I just wept.

[rajpoot]

As someone who'd already lost family to terrorists before 9/11, I understood the magnitude of what had happened half way around the world that day. Back then though I was younger and wasn't really interested in world politics as much as I was in things closer home.....the only thing I knew amidst all the rumours and stories flying around, was that what had happened was very very wrong and tragic.
Since then for ten years USA has led the fight against terrorism....and Bin Laden is hopefully dead. I understand however if that is small condolence to the relatives of those who'd died that day though. For I know that as a citizen of a country which is nearly as badly bothered by terrorists, I won't feel safe or satisfied until every single radical has been dealt with.
What I want to say is, that, while I don't know what the idiots sitting at the top over here (in India I mean) might think, but I personally respect and admire every soldier who's out there fighting. And I support USA's fight on terror whole-heartedly, for someone had to take the initiative and you guys did that.

My wishes go out to everyone over there who lost someone that day.

[Noncommunist]

I was 10 at the time in the first few days of middle school and in first period, I remember someone saying that there were some attacks somewhere but not to panic. For some reason, I thought it was somehow related to some little leaguer who was actually too old. Later in the day, I started hearing wackier stories like the terrorists letting themselves out along with the planes before they crashed and that some big important museum had been taken out. And as a ten year old, I remember hearing that there was some sort of recession going on and I thought I was being sophisticated in thinking that parents were taking kids out of school because of that. And shortly before we got out of school, I heard that there was attack in Somerset which is where flight 93 crashed. I didn't know exactly what happened but since Somerset is only a county away, it seemed a lot scarier. Eventually, we got out of school early and I heard the real story from my parents who were watching the TV. Later that day, we went over to some friends of theirs who were watching it as well.

[Viking]

Well, I was only 10 at the time, nearing 11. I was at a friend's place, and we were playing Settlers III. During a break, we went into the living room, where the father was watching the burning tower(s?) on TV. I think the impression we were given at the time, was that it had been an attack. But we did not dwell much on it at the time, and returned to play more Settlers.

I do though remember looking at pictures in the regional news paper of people that had chosen to jump from the highest floors, rather than getting caught up by the fire - that made an impression.

As for the political perspective of this, I guess it has led to one war that, on the surface at least, appears just; and one not much so. There are countries in the world when terrorist attacks are an annual/monthly occurence, so there's a long road to go when it comes to this form of terrorism. Lone wolfs may be hard to stop, but the ideological kind that we see so much of, should be more realistic to defeat.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I was preparing for a session of my morning class, a class on -- I **** you not -- conflict management. Both towers had been hit and were burning by the time class started. Almost all of my students, many of them a little stunned, showed up. During class the attack on the Pentagon was announced and the first tower collapsed.

One student's mother was scheduled in the Pentagon for a meeting that day. Her daughter was nervous bordering on hysterical. I excused her and closed down class a bit early. The girl's mother turned out to have been caught in traffic and got to watch the Pentagon attack as it hit. Later learned that her meeting was scheduled for that fifth of the building.

Still remember a cascade of feelings: anger, numbness, need to be with family.

My son's school was closed early with his "jane corporate 50-hour-a-week mom meeting him at the bus stop. He realized it was something scary then.

All of our area affected at one or three removes -- too many military families, too many government families and Defense contractors for that not to be true.

I remember crying, oddly enough with a sense of pride, when I heard the story of the FDNY chaplain.

He and 80 other of my brother knights died that day.

We had all been focused on such trivial things before. A silly blue dress; hanging chads; and then having enjoyed only a few years of relative peace after the end of the endless war/non=war that dominated my entire childhood we were plunged into a further war that seems nearly as amorphous and unending.

My daughter was born 119 days later.

[Brenus]

I was in Serbia, Novisad.
I was having a chat with my team when my secretary (Sanja) told us that some planes were hijacked in the US.
I remember saying oops, usual staff. She said no, more than one, so I told her that it will be a new Black September thing, negotiation and so one. She said no, it looks like an attack on New York.
We had no TV and Serbia will still under in the aftermath the NATO bombing campaign (Cruise Missiles), so I can’t say they were crying about this.
Then, the story started to spread within my Serbian Colleagues and friends, so I decided to pay attention. I went to my flat to put the French Channel (thanks to satellite) TV on, around 10h00-11h00. Then I saw, the plane hitting the first towers, then the second, then the French journalist telling about the Pentagon, and other possible plane(s).He looked absolutely overwhelmed. He even said something like “my God”, normally not mentioned in French news… The working day was over.
I went to a pub with my staff, and the comment about it was around “they finally know what it is to be under attack ” until the image of the people jumping and the tower collapsing stunned everybody in the Kafana… It was only then than the reality of the event hit the people.

[Fragony]

Was sick at home, my mom called, she was crying. She told me to put on the tv. Saw the second plane hit the building. Took me a while to come to terms that this was happening right now.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Out of defference to the gravity of the events and the still raw nerves, I will hold my tongue/pen/keys regarding my callous indifference to the past. Time should be spent discussing lives that might be lost in the future, but as JC said once and for always "let the dead bury the dead".

[GenosseGeneral]

I was in second grade back then, 7 years old. Played at a friend's house that afternoon while the towers were hit. I learned about the attacks when my mother who came to take me from there at the regular time said in the car something about "The US being attacked with 2 planes." Then I though it would be an WW2-Style bombing conducted the way my Grandma had told me the bombings of Hamburg during her childhood were. So I knew that the attack meant war, and I remember a feeling of excitement because of that: I knew the US to be the world's leading military power and asked myself who would attack them and why only with 2 aircrafts, not with hundreds ( I was still thinking of it as a bombing by an army in that moment). I was excited and strangely GLAD I would see this war with the US's military machinery being in action.
What had happened I learned that evening, though as a kid I didn't really understand the whole event. I only remember a me and a friend then laughing about the terrorists funny names the next days. Especially bin al-Shibh and Bin Laden were really funny for us (as you can make lots of puns with those names in German). The following events such as the Afghanistan war were observed by me with great excitement, though a bit disappointment that it was only a small war.Yes, kids seem to think strangely... I dont know why I was so militaristic back then and still feel ashamed when thinking about it. I knew at least a little that war is bad by the telling of my grandparents' generation, but still.

My wishes go out to everyone over there who lost someone that day. :bow:

Maybe there should be an other thread to discuss the effect of the event; I don't think this one suited for that.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I was too young and politically unaware to appreciate what happened. I remember a teacher coming into the class and saying something about it, but that's about it. :shrug:

[lars573]

I was 20, at home, and only really bothered by the interruption in broadcast TV. Because it never affected me directly I never cared, still don't. Today I'm going to be VERY bothered by people trying to shove their tragedy down my throat.

[Fragony]

I was 20, at home, and only really bothered by the interruption in broadcast TV. Because it never affected me directly I never cared, still don't. Today I'm going to be VERY bothered by people trying to shove their tragedy down my throat.

Sometimes I wish things wouldn't get to me the way they do, but than again I like myself better this way. Will never forget the jumping people, nor do I really want to

[Samurai Waki]

It was one of the first days of my senior year in Highschool. Oddly enough, I put on a Yankees T-Shirt without even knowing about the attacks until shortly before I was heading out for the day. Everyone in my classes couldn't focus, including the teachers who were nervously looking at each other wondering what was happening; When school was out my brother and I drove to the lake; we didn't say much about it-- too early to tell what was going to happen; but we did know the :daisy: had hit the fan and we were now at war.

[Beskar]

I did read an interesting opinion piece about 9/11, though it might cause some people to get upset but it isn't 'anti-American', just a sad reality reflection since the event - http://harpers.org/archive/2011/09/hbc-90008237

The Sad Legacy of Sept. 11
For weeks I’ve been dreading the 10th anniversary of 9/11, and not because I fear another attack. As a New Yorker who works below 14th Street, I’m reluctant to revisit the unhappy images I witnessed on that paradoxically lovely, cloudless day: the vast plume of smoke blowing eastward over my office building when I emerged from the Bleecker Street subway station around 9 a.m.; the thousands of dazed and ashen office workers tromping uptown in the middle of Broadway like refugees from a 1950s horror film; the soldiers armed with automatic weapons patrolling intersections; the constantly repeated television images of the two towers collapsing into rubble, people burned and crushed to bits—these are things I would prefer not to dwell on.

But I’ve also been dreading this anniversary because of its predictable narrative as related by a placid media and opportunistic politicians: America the victim, an innocent nation violated by evil aliens who “hate our freedom” and our fundamental goodness. In this version of the 9/11 story, Osama bin Laden was a single-minded monster leading a foreign “ideology” called “terrorism,” the purest distillation of an anti-American fervour that contained no political motive beyond an ambition to destroy the “American Way of Life.” Bin Laden, according to this scenario, spent all his waking hours rereading and resenting the celebrated declaration in 1630 by the Puritan governor of the Massachusetts Bay Colony, John Winthrop, our first founding father, that “we shall be a City upon a hill; the eyes of all people are upon us. . . .” It seems that Winthrop’s reference to Matthew 5:14—”Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid”—was so offensive to the radical Islamist bin Laden that he organized four suicide squads just to knock the whole shining city off its self-righteous, exceptionalist perch.

We don’t have to sympathize with bin Laden or even to understand his messianic thinking to know how wrong-headed and misleading our public recounting of 9/11 has become. Lost in the purity of America’s martyrdom are basic political realities: that bin Laden was a wealthy and well-connected Saudi Arabian, a former CIA asset, and America’s stalwart, only somewhat covert ally in the anti-communist jihad that drove the Soviet Union out of Afghanistan in the 1980s; that bin Laden felt betrayed when the Saudi monarchy allowed American troops—in his view, infidel agents of the devil—to use its sacred soil as a staging ground, in 1990-91, to dislodge Saddam Hussein from Kuwait; that bin Laden, already a very violent terrorist suspect, was somehow never apprehended in the 1990s—not even for questioning—because of the Saudi regime’s double game of protecting extremists while pretending to co-operate with Americans in the guise of “moderate Arab ally.”

Why don’t we lament with equal passion each anniversary of 2/26? Because the first attempt to destroy the World Trade Center, in 1993, should have led, eventually, to the arrest of bin Laden in Sudan in late 1995 or early 1996, after he was expelled from Saudi Arabia. George W. Bush ought to have listened more attentively to the warnings of his counterterrorism chief, Richard Clarke, in 2001, but the Clinton administration’s decision to prevent the CIA from grabbing Osama in Khartoum—before he decamped for Afghanistan and greater feats of mayhem—remains the emblematic failure of American “intelligence” and foreign policy in the decade leading up to 9/11. Of course, either Clinton or Bush could have severed, or at least loosened, the Gordian knot that ties the White House to the House of Saud and its oil wells—thus removing bin Laden’s casus belli—but such daring logic rarely figures in the high councils of American leadership. The nearly 3,000 dead at ground zero, the Pentagon, and Somerset County, Pennsylvania, were not martyrs to American freedom; they were victims of American foreign policy, just so much collateral damage resulting from the thirst of U.S. businessmen and politicians for Middle Eastern petroleum and influence.

John O’Neill, the FBI’s one-time director of anti-terrorism in New York, was quoted after 9/11 by two French authors saying that “all the answers, all the keys to dismantling Osama bin Laden’s organization can be found in Saudi Arabia.” This is likely still the truth. Unfortunately, O’Neill quit the FBI in frustration over what he said was Saudi pressure on Washington to squelch his investigation of al-Qaeda inside the kingdom of the Fahds—then went to work as security director of the World Trade Center, where he died on 9/11. The photograph of Saudi King Abdullah handing Barack Obama a valuable gold medallion on the president’s state visit to Riyadh in 2009—a symbolic “gift” to be sure—suggests that America’s meddling Middle Eastern policy will continue to discourage future John O’Neills from doing their jobs or the governing elite from learning any lessons.

But delineating the failures of the Clinton and Bush Administrations to anticipate or prevent 9/11 doesn’t explain the apparently bottomless well of self-pity, vengeance, and rage on display these past 10 years. To combat “the terrorist threat” and respond to public outrage over bin Laden’s attack, presidents Bush and Obama have prosecuted two major and disastrous wars, authorized “targeted assassinations,” severely damaged the historic right of habeas corpus, and curtailed civil liberties by engaging in illegal surveillance and entrapment of “potential terrorists” on a scale not seen since the height of anticommunist paranoia during the Cold War. The torture conducted at Abu Ghraib and the prisons at Guantanamo and Bagram Air Force Base are stains on the American soul, while the FBI’s grossly unconstitutional practice of enticing Muslim-Americans into fictional “terror plots” is a scandal that deserves much greater exposure. How can we understand all of this anti-libertarian, “un-American” activity? Such angry, costly, and ultimately self-defeating overreactions can only be traced back to the wounded innocence that makes up so much of the American psyche.

In fact, Americans should long ago have got over their sense of “exceptionalism,” their deep belief in their well-meaning sanctity. Slavery and the genocide against the Indians might be a good place to start a re-examination of American “innocence.” I lost any notion that such a thing existed when I watched the nightly television reports about American bombing and napalming of Vietnamese civilians; I lost it again when I finally read up on the poorly taught history of America’s brutal colonial war in the Philippines, the original counter-insurgency that introduced the American use of “waterboarding” to extract information. Graham Greene said it best in his Vietnam novel, The Quiet American: “Innocence is like a dumb leper who has lost his bell, wandering the world, meaning no harm.”

The ongoing legacy of 9/11 appears to be more of the same: more killing in the name of saving lives, more repression in the name of defending liberty, more camouflaged Christian piety in the name of freedom of religion, more hypocrisy in the name of “American” values of truth and justice, more massacres of the English language (terrorism is a tactic not an ideology) in the name of straight talk. I don’t think it’s the legacy Americans deserve, and it is certainly the wrong memorial for the dead of 9/11.

[Husar]

Out of defference to the gravity of the events and the still raw nerves, I will hold my tongue/pen/keys regarding my callous indifference to the past. Time should be spent discussing lives that might be lost in the future, but as JC said once and for always "let the dead bury the dead".

I just found an opinion piece on Al Jazeera (http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/09/2011910125513799497.html) that may be in line with what you think, it comes close to what I think anyway.

I'm not a fan of all this memorial, "never forget" stuff, 3000 people died due to a horrible crime 10 years ago, in the same timespan many, many more have died due to all kinds of other causes but somehow this is a big deal that needs national mourning etc. To me it feels a bit like people want to hang on to bitterness, hatred and fear and refuse to let go until...I don't know, maybe until America is the greatest shining gem of a nation again, which isn't happening because people hang on to those feelings.
I can understand that family members and friends still mourn their loved ones who died that day, I'm talking about all the media attention and unrelated people here.

Not to forget that acting like a wounded animal proves that all this talk about "we won't let them get to us or change our lifestyles" simply isn't true.

What I hope for is not that we completely forget what happened but that people will be able to move on, life goes on, no remembering, mourning or new war will bring back the 3000 dead and I'd rather be afraid of cancer than terrorist attacks, and that's also where I'd rather see that much time and money invested.

We're giving these scumbags more attention than they deserve IMO. And since attention is what they want, we're giving them what they want. :shrug:

May the dead rest in piece and the living keep living. :bow:

[tibilicus]

Interesting a lot of people say they are at war. Just who with? An individual, an organisation, regardless of how transparent or ambiguous we have become in asserting various organisations with being part of Al-Qaeda. Or are we at war with an ideology, an idea or a certain country in particular. For those who feel they are at war, it would be interesting to justify who with.

Doubtless, it was a tragedy and will be one of the defining events of this century. I just hope the West doesn't compromise its moral character through activities such as torture because of that ghastly day.

[Fisherking]

I remember the event quite well. I watched the second plane crash into the towers and then went to work on a west coast military facility that day.

I remember the shock that griped the nation and brought everyone together.

But since then it has been used as a political tool to get people to agree to things and pass laws that are just outrageous.

It is the national tragedy that politicians have capitalized upon.

It has eroded our liberties with mostly feel good measures that have resulted in no meaningful increase in security.

It has turned most western republics into security states.

It is time for a reassment and to try to regain some of what we have lost.

[InsaneApache]

I remember the event quite well. I watched the second plane crash into the towers and then went to work on a west coast military facility that day.

I remember the shock that griped the nation and brought everyone together.

But since then it has been used as a political tool to get people to agree to things and pass laws that are just outrageous.

It is the national tragedy that politicians have capitalized upon.

It has eroded our liberties with mostly feel good measures that have resulted in no meaningful increase in security.

It has turned most western republics into security states.

It is time for a reassment and to try to regain some of what we have lost.

I've said time and again. A politicians wet dream. This thread, however is not the one to debate it in. In my opinion.

[Shaka_Khan]

I avoided watching documentaries on 9/11 because it was too depressing. I didn't want to watch the towers collapse over and over again.

Today is different. They're showing more average Joes and Jills and how they reacted during and shortly after 9/11. I'm seeing more personal footages that I've never seen before. I'm beginning to understand better how it was in NY. I'm even more curious because I've been to NY before. I have relatives and friends who live there.

[Crazed Rabbit]

This meant a lot to me; http://www.miamiherald.com/2002/09/08/2397001/on-hallowed-ground.html

CR

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Thanks CR.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I spent today going about as if it wasn't the anniversary. I mourn for those that died, but ultimately all tragedies become tools for other corrupt people. I couldn't find myself joining in the big spectacle on tv when half the time they showed cops with rifles stationed everywhere in new york city because there was a unconfirmed threat of one car bomb.

What a symbol indeed.

[Major Robert Dump]

Americans love their tragedy memorials and anniversaries. You should have see the bases in Afghanistan on Sept 11, everyone made an excuse to have their particular unrelated ceremony on that day in addition to memorial ceremonies, BBQs and "memorial 9.11k runs." Sometimes our desires to memorialize go beyond common sense and inconvenience, for example, shutting down the war zone on the one day, if any, we should be out kicking butt. I don't buy into the whole "it brought us all togetehr" crap or the "we lost our innocence" boohoo.

Lots to remember about that day, won't bore you with my story, other than to say the video of people holding hands and jumping together endears me to this day. Would like to know what transpired and what they were thinking in the moments prior, ya know, the whole human condition thing

I will say the one positive thing about the whole ordeal is that because of terrorists, I can now get a free handjob everytime I go to the airport.

[Montmorency]

Ultimately, there are three lessons of the last decade that I think are important. The first is the tremendous success the United States has had in achieving its primary goal — blocking attacks on the homeland. The second is that campaigns of dubious worth [e.g. Iraq] are inevitable in war, and particularly in one as ambiguous as this war has been. Finally, all wars end, and the idea of an interminable war dominating American foreign policy and pushing all other considerations to the side is not what is going to happen. The United States must have a sense of proportion, of what can be done, what is worth doing and what is too dangerous to do. An unlimited strategic commitment is the definitive opposite of strategy.

The United States has done as well as can be expected. Over the coming years there will be other terrorist attacks. As it wages war in response, the United States will be condemned for violating international laws that are insensate to reality. At this point, for all its mistakes and errors — common to all wars — the United States has achieved its primary mission. There have been no more concerted terrorist attacks against the United States. Now it is time to resume history.

Too lenient in its (http://www.stratfor.com/weekly/20110905-911-and-successful-war?utm_source=freelist-f&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20110906&utm_term=gweekly&utm_content=readmore&elq=35ca30083d5a457f82137861a6b1790c)treatment of American failures, I think. And other things.

[Louis VI the Fat]

By coincidence, I'm in America today. 9-11 was a major deal. It dominated the newpapers and television in the run up to today. Flags were flying half height. Quite a bit of ado about it.

Mostly tastefully done. Little dwelling on the past. Americans don't do self-pity, at least not collectively. Today was more about looking for closure, trying to move on. There was little of the hypernationalist hysteria of a few years ago. Save perhaps for a still rather dominant martial focus on this day.

As per usual, the average American I meet has been delightfully open, welcoming. Always perfectly fine with whatever I'm up to. ('Hi, how are you today?' 'Where are you from?' 'Care for more coffee sweetie?'). Call it plastic if you must, I call it heartwarming friendly and polite. :smitten:



I met an Italian women, an immigrant to the States. We had great fun discussing the horrors of American food, we have the most beautifully slender bodies within the nearest five hundred miles. We met at a lunch, the locals were stuffing themselves silly, neither of us could find anything we would possibly put in our mouths. I had to make do with a spinach salad. Which, to be fair, turned out quite edible. I skipped everything else.

I hate cars, so I don't have a driver's license. I don't understand how people can drive these machines, it looks so complicated. Like flying a Space Shuttle, all those pedals and buttons and lights on the dashboard and stuff. I can never quite figure out what it is these people are doing when driving.
It is a bit of a hassle in America, because I have to rely on public transport and taxis for everything, you really need a car around here. On the upside, when she noticed I asked for a taxi to be send, she offered to give me a ride...



I am shocked at the ease of diversity here. Everybody I meet is Black, Brazilian, Hispanic, Asian. They make me look like a tall pale gringo by comparison, when I think a century ago I would've stood out as the opposite, as the non-waspy minority. What a reversal.


/randomness


Who would fly planes on these people? Who would attack them when they are just going about their daily business? Madness.


:unitedstates:



Lewis - 'In my aquarium, we use only OBL fishfood. Nutritious! - fish know why...'

[Fragony]

As per usual, the average American I meet has been delightfully open, welcoming. Always perfectly fine with whatever I'm up to. ('Hi, how are you today?' 'Where are you from?' 'Care for more coffee sweetie?'). Call it plastic if you must, I call it heartwarming friendly and polite.


AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH that stuff makes me want to pop out eyes with a spoon

[Cute Wolf]

....

I almost forget about this, looks like outside the western world, this tragedy didn't meant anything.

just allow me to offer silent condolence...

[Sigurd]

A bit late, but nontheless...

I was at a shopping mall close by where we lived at the time with my wife and my 4 month old daughter. There was a commotion around an electrical store. I had to take a peak. People were watching the tellies.
A smoking tower of the world trade center was the main pictures. Had no idea what had caused it. Some said a small plane had crashed into it and set it on fire.
I remember going home at once to watch this on my own telly. Same picture, but people talking about terrorism. My wife had to attend to something (wet nappy?) I was alone when the second plane hit the other tower. I remember distinctly that my neck hairs went up.
I kept watching and hoped that people after the hit of the first tower thought to get out and that the second tower was near empty. I called to my wife and told her that I saw with my own eyes that a passenger plane had crashed into the other tower and that this surely was not an accident. Then the first tower collapsed and I could only watch in shock. Then the other tower went down...
I can't remember anything else about that day. It seemed like one thing happened after the other even though there was nearly an hour after the second impact before the first tower collapsed.
I distinctly remember seeing cheering people with green flags and Muslim attire in the news shortly after and felt disgusted. I wanted to re-enlist, but my wife talked me out of it. I felt that the whole western world was under attack and that I had to be there defending it.

I visited New York for the first time earlier this year and went to ground zero. I wasn't able to walk on the site, but could overlook it from view spots specifically made for having a look at what was happening. I saw the two square pits which will become part of the memorial. I saw fire brigades having stands in the streets just behind, remembering their fallen colleagues. I remember the security for just getting on a ferry out to the statue of liberty.

New York felt like a bigger version of London, but without the double deckers. It was only when you looked up that you realized that the buildings were really tall.

[Shaka_Khan]

I remember that the streets of San Francisco were silent and empty. I never saw downtown San Francisco like this in broad daylight before. I was able to see from outside that the department stores didn't have any customers. People started to come out late in the afternoon. The restaurants at night had more customers than usual.


I almost forget about this, looks like outside the western world, this tragedy didn't meant anything.
My Korean and Japanese friends told me that people in East Asia were very concerned about this.

[Beskar]

In sum up Cute Wolf's response:
Trololololololol


My Korean and Japanese friends told me that people in East Asia were very concerned about this.

Similar reaction from people I know. It dominates the airwaves in every country.

[Hax]

This post is not so much about 9/11 itself, as I was way too young to remember too many specifics and was unaware of their consequences at the time. It's mostly about growing up in a partially Muslim family and being interested in politics in a post-9/11 world.

I was too young to remember the full impact of what had happened on that day. I was playing a video game in the other room when my father called me to the living room and the first thing I thought when I saw the attacks was "whoa, that looks pretty awesome". I must have thought they were watching a film or something. I remember saying that out loud, to which my parents responded, well, quite annoyed, to be honest. Even though I knew it was a real event happening to real people, I didn't think too much of it at the time and went back to playing my game.

It was only as I became older that the full impact of the 9/11 attacks on western society; apart from the fact that the Afghanistan and later the Iraq wars started, I started to notice (as far as that was possible at age 10), that something had changed in the general opinion, specifically about Muslims. Whereas Islam had been regarded as something exotic, but not as something of a threat, this disposition towards Islam and Muslims had started to change. I didn't think too much of it at that time and I always managed to seperate for myself the perpetrators of 9/11 and the religion my father practiced. For me, there was (and is) no relation between misguided self-proclaimed martyrs and my family. Additionally, my image of Islam was that it had started off later than Christianity, that the Muslims conquered a huge part of the known world and that they established a rule characterised by scientific knowledge and tolerance.

Growing political interest in a post-9/11 world was interesting. As I noted before, I've stated from time to time, that while I was younger, Islam had been regarded as something exotic, but not as something threatening. While I expanded my own political interests, I'd noticed how quick people were to blame Islam as a whole for the troubles of 9/11. And I have to admit that on an academic level, I didn't know too much about Islam either. I'd had some very rudimentary education in secondary school in which the basic beliefs of Muslims were explained. There was something of a disrepancy; for me, the hijackers had always been terrorists; but never Muslims. Not the Muslims I knew, at least.

As I turned sixteen I actively started to study Islam; not Islamic religious texts, that I mostly avoided, except to look up a passage every now and again, but rather its history. I paid particular attention to the split between Shi'a and Sunni Islam, the way Islam spread in its earliest years and how Muslim rule affected non-Muslims in their respective regions. I also took a great interest in Iran and the ideals of the Islamic Republic. As anyone, I made mistakes and I may have assumed things that later proved to be incorrect, but I did find out for myself that the image shaped of Islam largely proved to be incorrect.

I enrolled in the course of Middle-Eastern studies (specialising in the Arabic language) of Leiden University about two weeks ago, and I wonder whether I would have done the same if not for 9/11. It clearly helped me define my own interests; and specifically, that of comparing how the perpetrators of 9/11 and my father's side of the family, that I hold very dear, could possibly share the same religion.

I like what Louis hinted at in his earlier post, although he may have been unaware. Robert Fisk noted that directly after 9/11, people were reluctant to ask the question "why?". I don't think we should or even could blame ourselves for 9/11. That would be a gross oversimplification. And we should not say "well, the victims of 9/11 had it coming", as those people who went to work today were not involved in politics that helped define the modern Middle East. Rather, we could take a look at our foreign policy and say; "hey, well maybe they are unhappy about something they thought we did". And before I get misinterpreted for trying to sympathise with al-Qaeda (I'm trying to empathise at best), I do not believe that the hijackers would have done the same thing if not for serious brainwashing.

It is not a problem easily explained; 9/11 may find its roots in colonialism, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the post-colonialist anti-Islamist dictatorships of the Middle East. There are too many factors we'd have to account for. But if we'd take the effort to look at the problems of the Middle East, we might think to ourselves that maybe they have had reasons other than 'hating freedom and democracy (tm)', because I don't believe that. And Louis rightly pointed out "who would attack a people like these?"

Well, desperation and misguidedness is an incredibly volatile combination.

[Louis VI the Fat]

In sum up Cute Wolf's response:
Trololololololol
Japan and South Korea are not Indonesia. They have very different repsonses to 9-11.

[Louis VI the Fat]

One 9-11 2001 I was in university. It was in the afternoon. some guy I knew came up to me and told me some weird story about a plane that flew into the World Trade Center, big explosions and all!

At first I thought he was talking about some bad movie he'd seen. You know, with Bruce Willis in it or some such.

Then I saw the tower buring, on tv in the hall. Unbelievable. I couldn't believe my eyes. It was all still very unlcear. I thought a small plane had hit a skyscraper, accidentaly, maybe the pilot had passed out or something. Then the second plane hit, and we now undertood what was going on.

I remember thinking, 'wow, what excellent engineering, those towers can withstand planes flying straight in them!'. Not much later, I saw both towers collapse, live on tv. To this day, I curse the sense of pr of the hijackers. Reality was worse, provided more shocking images, than anythiong Hollywood ever came up with.

The manager of the place, non-academic, turned off the television. 'You people are blocking the hallway'. Bastard. I pleaded and tried to reason with him, that this was the biggest story of the coming decade. After an excruciating twenty minutes of calling back and forth, televisions were put back on, sound turned up. Nobody was interested in class or work, we all just wanted to watch what was going on.

After a few hours, when there seemed to be no new developments, I walked out. I met a girl I knew. 'Don't get me wrong, but part of me thinks this is good for the americans, makes them experience what they do unto others'. I disagreed. It was not my instinctive reaction at all. To this one remark can be traced quite a bit of my subsequent solidarity with America, which endured to this day.


I don;t know why, but I've noticed it in a lot of other people too. In the past decade, I have seen footage of hundreds of thousands of people dying, of too much grief. But it is 9-11 that haunts my thoughts. The sound of people falling to their death. The sight of them jumping out of the windows. Two images in particular haunt me:

Some Black guy who jumped. He had a pose that was so elegant, almost like a ballet dancer. He jumped head down. You could tell he had jumped deliberatly, wanted to hit the ground head first, to have the light go out with one big bang.
The other was of this woman jumping. What struck me was her holding on to her handbag. She wasn't going to need that bag. She just wanted something to cling on to. She had her eyes closed.

So sad.

[Major Robert Dump]

On a lighter note

The 1CAV Division wanted to micromanage the manner in which all units commemmerated Sept 11. Now, while most units IMO were going about it the wrong way (BBQs, combat patch ceremony, promotion ceremonies), unltimiately it is up to companies to do what they want, it should not be batalions, brigades, or worse, divisions.

Anywya, the Division states that since they own the battle space, and they know a lot of people will have ceremonies on Sept 11, they will issue an official order prohibiting other unit ceremonies and events unless those units all send people to the 1CAV ceremony (so their formations look beefed up and spectators/photographers get the impression that people wanted to come listen to a bunch of desk brass talk and the gay 1CAV band sing original songs about 9/11, which were terrible, btw.) This is micro managing at the worst level, and if you think this is ridiculous from a dog-and-pony show standpoint, you would be shocked at how petty it gets with actual combat operations.

Well, it was incredibly hot this day, and not a good day to have people who just came off missions standing around locking their knees. One of the songs the band elicited chuckles and sighs from attendeees. At 70 minutes of standing at attention and salutng while guy-I-don't-know is followed by civilian-i-dont-know at the podium, soldiers started to fall out from heat. Some just broke ranks and left. Some stopped saluitng and pulled out a water bottle. The shimmying bodies and jello legs made the formation look like the wave at a baseball game. A couple people fell down.

And then at 90 minutes, just when I was starting to lose hope that this would end anytime soon, some genius in a fighter jet, probably irritated at the 1CAVs micro-managing, buzzed the ceremony, followed 10 seconds by another jet. I mean this dude was low. The speaker jumped for cover. People broke formation and hit the ground. People ran for the buildings.

In the commotion I escaped

[Ironside]

I was in class, when one new class mate mentioned that he'd gotten an sms, something about planes crashing into a building. Since I didn't know him, the information was blurry and we had class, I didn't think that much about it.

Coming home and turning on TV, smoke coming out of a building, looks to be a live feed with the reporter being quite shocked. Ok this is bad, switching channel, extra news about the twin towers getting hit by airplanes. Ok this is really, really bad. I don't think I watched that much of the news after that, since I don't remember the buildings falling down or the suecide jumpers in the same memory sequence (so to speak). I don't feel to watch something horrible slowly happening.

The odd part was the dark joking in school the day after, where I was supposed to been the brain behind it (none knew anybody who had lost their life on that day, so it wasn't really personal in that way and the Bin Laden stuff came up a few days later).