End of the Third Age

[Zim]

All across Middle Earth armies are mustering. In Mordor the Orc tribes gather into mighty hosts led by the Nazghul, chief among the servants of Sauron. To the northeast the tribes of the Rhun ride forth while to the southeast the Haradrim gather to march against their enemy Gondor once more. Meanwhile Saruman has revealed the armies of half-orc, half human creatures he has created, though whether to aid his master Sauron or himself is unclear.

Arrayed against these forces are those of the free peoples. Gondor, ever the front line against Mordor, raises troops to defend its borders. Rohan's king Theoden has shaken off the malaise that had taken hold of him and cast away the vile Wormtongue, and now prepares his horsemen. The High Elves still left in Middle Earth have decided they will not remain uninvolved, and have joined Gondor and Rohan. Even the formerly quiet and scattered settlements in Eriador have begun to band together under the leadership of the Rangers in response to orcish incursions. The Third Age is coming to a close, but it is unclear which side will come to dominate the Fourth.

End of the Third Age is a Third Age: Total War hotseat played with the 2.1 version of the mod, with the upgraded barracks events disabled (allowing high tier troops to be built as soon as the infrastructure for them is complete).

Settings are as follows:
TATW 2.1 with barracks events disabled
VH/VH
Huge army size

Players:

The Free Peoples:
1. Gondor: Zim
2. Rohan: Mithridate
3. Eriador: Rougeman
4. High Elves: Myth
5. Sylvan Elves: Slysnake

The Servants of Sauron:
5. Mordor: Nightbringer
6. Isengard: deguerra
7. Harad: LooseCannon1
8. Rhun: Thanatos Eclipse


Players are split into two teams (Free Peoples of Middle Earth and the Servants of Sauron), with each side having its own victory conditions:
-The Free Peoples must take and hold for ten turns each the settlements of Barad Dur, Isengard, Hyarmen and Mistrand. All settlements must be held at once to achieve victory but each only has to be held for ten turns a single time (i.e., if Isengard is taken by Rohan and held for ten turns then briefly lost. It most only be recaptured to apply to the victories conditions, and not held a further ten turns).

-The Servants of Sauron must take and hold for ten turns the settlements of Minas Tirith, Edoras, Imladris, and Bree. Like the Free Peoples, they must hold all of their target settlements simultaneously to win but need only hold each for ten turns a single time in the game.

Rules:

-Battles are fought by the attacking player. Battles against rebels or between armies where one has a massive advantage in the number of units can be autoresolved (TATW's makers explicitly state autoresolve is a bit off in their mod still)

- Players shall post a link to the save game in the main game thread and also send a private message to the next player in line to alert them that it is their turn.

- Players have 48 hours to play each turn, with extensions granted at request. The GM will skip a players' turn if the deadline is missed with no communication and a sub allied to the player cannot be found.

- No spies may be used to open the gates of settlements or forts.

-Assassins are limited to sabotage missions only

- No destroying buildings for cash under any circumstances.

-Catapults and trebuchets may both be used to assault settlements with wooden or stone walls on the turn of the siege. Ballistas are not usable to assault settlements on the turn of the siege.

- If an army is beaten in battle by a faction that is after them in the turn order that army may not move on the following turn. The player that defeated them should post which armies were beaten to make it easier to follow this and the following rule.

- An army which is beaten in battle may not be attacked on the following turn (because it is immobilized either by the game mechanic or by the rule above) by any faction unless it has retreated to a fort or settlement.

-Evil armies may join "crusades" but not call them. Armies that have joined can only attack the target city.

- No exploits, including (but not limited to): no merchant forts, no surround-and-destroy, no reloads, no tribute deals that deliberately put you into debt greater than 10k, no deliberate diplomatic exchange of territories just to get a free garrison, no attacking ships in ports. If you are unsure if an action would be considered an exploit check with me.

[Zim]

First save for Gondor

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9501

[Myth]

And so it has began...

By the way, taking a look at each starting position, two evil human factions have a button of provinces. This will be hard. Especially if Thanatos becomes a fourth for them. In such a case I'd want a fifth for us, one to take the wood elves.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Did you get me down for Rhun?

Slysnake said he also wanted to play in the other thread, so he could be a 5th player for the Free People to balance out Mordor

[slysnake]

lol didn't realize that the other thread was actually for picking factions to >.<

EDIT: Looks like I'm taking Sylvan Elves? :)

[Zim]

Sorry Thanatos, I knew who were playing but didn't get it in the first post.

New save with Silvan added. It's now Rohan's turn!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9503

Here are directions for removing the barracks events, courtesy of the mod's FAQ. This will allow everyone to build advanced units as soon as they have the barracks for it, rather than waiting 32 turns for the last event. This should be connected to the save (meaning only I should have to do it) but just in case here's how it's done.

M2TW/mods/Third_Age/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_events.txt
Delete everything in this file, and save it.
M2TW/mods/Third_Age/data/export_descr_buildings.txt
Open this file with notepad and press CTRL+H. In the "Find what" field, type

"event_counter large_city_barracks 1" Leave the "Replace with" field blank, and click "replace all"

Repeat the process, but this time type

and "event_counter huge_city_barracks 1" in the find what field.
Save the file and you're done!

[CROPrasec]

How do i know if i have to do this or not?? :P

[Myth]

sly you can take another good faction if you like. But the Sylvan Elves will really aid us because of their starting position.

[Zim]

Scratch that, false alarm.

[Zim]

Try this save skipped ahead. There's no pw (I started it as a hotseat game but only picked Gondor). If you can build the next barracks in Minas Tirith then we have the barracks event disabled. If not everyone will have to edit or I'll have to redo my turn with the event on.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9505

[deguerra]

Ok guys. Zim and I have checked, and it's best we all modify our files. I figure its easiest if I just upload the relevant ones. Here is what to do.

1. Backup the file "M2TW/mods/Third_Age/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/descr_events.txt"
Backup the file "M2TW/mods/Third_Age/data/export_descr_buildings.txt"

2. Download the attached file EotTAfiles.rar and extract it to your Third_Age folder. When it asks to overwrite, say yes.

That should be all. Yell if there are any problems.

Edit: If you want to double check, download Zim's save from the post above and make sure that you can build the next barracks in Minas Tirith. If you cannot, something is still wrong.

[slysnake]

I'm more than happy playing Sylvan Elves - you just can't beat their OP archers :D

[CROPrasec]

But in this save a drill square is allready built..don't understand?

[CROPrasec]

ok..i did that and it's working ;)..can i start now with Rohan save??

[deguerra]

Yep. Go from Zim's save here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_...id=205&id=9503

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I got a question with turn order. If all the free people play first, then they'll have the strategic advantage of knowing how far the mordor forces can travel. Wouldn't it be better to have each team play every other turn, making an exception of course for the fact that the free people have an extra member?

[phonicsmonkey]

In some mods you can change the turn order just by editing the order of playable factions in the descr_strat file. Of course this can only be read once at the start of the game so it would mean a restart here.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I'm not dead set on this, but movement info can often be a big help in strategy. It just appears to be playing out in the normal game order which is free people first, evil second; so I thought I'd bring this up before we got any further.

[CROPrasec]

Eriador up :2thumbsup:

2405

[Zim]

Does anyone else feel strongly about this? We're just two turns in so it would be an easy redo.

I actually kind of like going later in turn order because it means I get to go after others have made their moves. :shrug:

Thanks for the info, Phonics. I was thinking the only way to mess with the turn order would be to change factions around between being player led and not (Turning them AI and back sticks them at the end of the list).

[phonicsmonkey]

(Turning them AI and back sticks them at the end of the list).

I think you have to let the turn pass once for each change in that method. Meaning about 9 turns would go by before you got the right order. Could be wrong though, I have never tried to do it on purpose.

[Myth]

I do't object to shifting the TO around, one extra player is no small advantage. Since I'll be modding my TATW install anyway I will be discouraged to play in SP (same as with the Teutonic install) untill we finish the game.

[Rougeman]

better to shift it now then wait 15 turns eh?

ill wait to play the turn till this is sorted out

[Zim]

Sorry everyone. It looks like this isn't one of those mods. I switched the descr strat order so that each side had every other position in the turn order and then started up a new game. It still cycled through the factions in the same order as with a nonmodded descr_strat.


In some mods you can change the turn order just by editing the order of playable factions in the descr_strat file. Of course this can only be read once at the start of the game so it would mean a restart here.

[Myth]

I'm away for the whole day tomorrow and can't be sure I'll get on Thursday evening (just FYI)

[CROPrasec]

Let's justt playyyy

[Nightbringer]

Let's justt playyyy

How very naive. We don't actually play games here, other forums simply outsource the preparation to us and then we ship them the ready to play game. :)


In all honesty though, I think things will be fine and we can get started now. The turn order thing is unfortunate but it won't break the game.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Sorry everyone. It looks like this isn't one of those mods. I switched the descr strat order so that each side had every other position in the turn order and then started up a new game. It still cycled through the factions in the same order as with a nonmodded descr_strat.

Then I guess this is a non-issue and we can just play :)

[deguerra]

Let's justt playyyy

What he said.

[CROPrasec]

What is this then if it's not playing a game??

[deguerra]

What is this then if it's not playing a game??

I believe Nightbringer was pulling your leg in reference to the fairly lengthy amount of time we have spent setting this up.

[Rougeman]

2435

[Rougeman]

should the victory conditions include the sylvan elves capital?

[Nightbringer]

should the victory conditions include the sylvan elves capital?
lol
See, step by step we iron out every detail that could go wrong for whoever ends up playing the game. :) I would say that player capitals should all be on the list.

@croprasec, yes I was pulling your leg.

[CROPrasec]

Ok..so we have finally started ;)

[Zim]

We can do that but after not being able to change the turn order I'm loath to make victory tougher on them.


should the victory conditions include the sylvan elves capital?

[deguerra]

Myth is up, right?

I don't like the designation "Armies of Mordor" btw Zim, it's very possessive, focused on one faction and failing to represent the diverse evil qualities we all bring to the table. We have rights too you know. I demand that we be called the "Armies of Darkness" or "Armies of the Dark Lord" ;)

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I vote for "Servants of Sauron". That's group I just made for us to strategize in ;) so I'm not bias at all

[Zim]

SoS versus PaM (People against Mordor?). :clown:

[CROPrasec]

Does it really matter if it's Sauron or Mordor??..You call yourself UOASHRO (Ugly orcs and some humans riding oliphants) :P

[Nightbringer]

I like Servants of Sauron. It acknowledges by obvious over-lordship and awesomeness (XD) while also making it clear that there are many who bow before me, not just the inhabitants of Mordor.

[phonicsmonkey]

I like Servants of Sauron. It acknowledges by obvious over-lordship and awesomeness (XD) while also making it clear that there are many who bow before me, not just the inhabitants of Mordor.

OMG Nightbringer, what's happening to......your EYE?!

[Nightbringer]

OMG Nightbringer, what's happening to......your EYE?!

Well, I have been debating showing it for a while, since I wasn't sure if you all would understand, but I think this is aa appropriate time to reveal my true nature...

2438

[phonicsmonkey]

Eeek! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136573-The-Anteroom-community-discussion-thread&p=2053355520&viewfull=1#post2053355520)

[Nightbringer]

wait, I do have one rules question pertaining to.

- No sallies by defending armies.

I assume this means no sallies merely for the sake of denying sacking. If a full stack is besieged for example, I think they should be allowed to sally.

[Zim]

Because of limitations on the ability to take a settlement in a single turn (not suing spies, and many factions do not have access to trebuchets) I left that in to prevent defending factions from just hiding in cities and sallying, counting on their superior skills on the field versus the AI since they're guaranteed a turn of safety behind their stone walls.

One player pointed out to me that this means a single unit could force a full stack to hide behind walls and not sally, which I agree is silly. We could just allow catapults to penetrate stone walls. All factions get at least catapults but only a few (alll good factions) get trebuchets.

[Nightbringer]

I think allowing catapults to breech stone and wooden walls is fine.

[Myth]

Silvan Elves up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9521)

[deguerra]

Does slynake know it's his turn?

[slysnake]

Yeah, I'm still in the process of installing software on my new PC, will play my turn this afternoon :)

EDIT: I might be needing a slight extension, if people are alright with that...

[CROPrasec]

ohh cmon :/

[RexLegend]

Sam asked me to play his turn due to severe problems with his PC. I'll try to play 1st turn tonight, so expect my post :)


EDIT: Mordor's turn (http://www.sendspace.com/file/u0i7jb)

[Nightbringer]

Isengard up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9527

[deguerra]

Haven't done this in a while. Hope this worked:

Harad up:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9528

edit: and thanks for subbing RexLegend!

[LooseCannon1]

Rhun up (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9529)

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Gondor
2487

I got a question on the siege equipment rules; can anybody other then Gondor even make trebuchets?

[phonicsmonkey]

naw, the rest of you have to make do with one of these (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MShWnTlP60E)

seems to do the job though

[Thanatos Eclipse]

if only, we wouldn't even need armies then :P

[phonicsmonkey]

well you'd need someone to drag them..

[Myth]

But why would you even attack us? We're such lovable folk :)

[Zim]

Just Rohan I think, the no sally rule was supposed to help that partially.

How about we eliminate the no sally rule and just allow any siege equipment from catapults on up to assault any settlement?


Gondor
2487

I got a question on the siege equipment rules; can anybody other then Gondor even make trebuchets?

[Myth]

That's fine with me.

[deguerra]

As am I. It's probably best for some factions (Elves) if they are allowed to sit in settlements anyway. Not that the damn pointy eared buggers need any more help.

[CROPrasec]

That's fine with me too

[Nightbringer]

And with me

[LooseCannon1]

it's fine with me allowing catapults to breech walls and eliminating the no-sally rules

[Zim]

Rohan

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9542

And rules are officially changed

[CROPrasec]

Eriador up :2thumbsup:

[Rougeman]

2515

[Myth]

Silvan Elves up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9551)

[deguerra]

If you're still having pc troubles slysnake, do you want someone to sub again?

[deguerra]

Sorry to keep banging on this, but I do want to keep things moving.

Given this:
You are correct, Phonics. I'm to bust tonight and tomorrow to play my turn, so to keep the game moving, could Myth please sub me? I'm sure he is more than capable of covering me for just one turn :)
(from another hotseat) can we either find a sub or skip the turn?

[CROPrasec]

Yes i agree with deguerra...please sub him
And i think that 48 hours to play a turn is too much, it's better to have 24 hours,but that's just my opinion ;)

[Myth]

I'll sub him NP. Don't change the 48 hours, some of us have work, relationships and other stuff that can't wait. You'll agree with me when life hits you Croprasec.

[CROPrasec]

I know that and i have a relationship and college begins in one week so i totally understand. But like i said it's only my opinion ;)

[Myth]

One does not simply have his turn as Mordo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9555)r.

[slysnake]

That's fine, thanks for subbing me - I'v actually been spending my night so far trying to hunt down a UK non-gold patch for Kingdoms. Turns out all I need is just the European non-gold patch instead >.<...

[Nightbringer]

So it seems I accidentally entered a password for myself that I don't actually know, Zim, could you perhaps re-upload my save with the password cleared. I am very sorry for the delay everyone...

[Nightbringer]

One does not simply have his turn as Mordo (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9555)r.

Apparently this was a more accurate statement than you could have known :)

[deguerra]

So it seems I accidentally entered a password for myself that I don't actually know, Zim, could you perhaps re-upload my save with the password cleared. I am very sorry for the delay everyone...

:laugh4:

That's ok. You made my day anyway :clown:

[phonicsmonkey]

Sorry guys I'd help out but Zim hasn't given me the admin pw for this game yet...

[Myth]

Lol :D

[deguerra]

Lest you think I am mocking you (too much), I'm mostly amused because this is exactly the sort of thing that is likely to happen to me.

[Zim]

This one should work.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9558

[Nightbringer]

Don't worry, no offense taken, I find it quite hilarious myself! :)

Isengard up,
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9558

[deguerra]

Harad:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9562

[LooseCannon1]

Rhun up (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9566)

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Gondor

2578

[Zim]

Rohan

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9571

[CROPrasec]

Eriador up :2thumbsup:

2590

[Rougeman]

2598

[Myth]

Silvan Elves up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9575)

[CROPrasec]

I'm moving in another town cause i'm going to college and for now i don't have powerfull enough laptop to play a game but i'll try to do something about it.
However in best possible scenario i'll be out of the game for at least a week. And pls don't kick me cause i want to continue playing here. As i said before i will find a sollution till i buy a better laptop which will happen in a few weeks from now. I'll ask someone to sub me till i return. I would like that Zim subs me cause he's an ally and admin here

[deguerra]

No problem from me. Good luck with the move!

[CROPrasec]

No problem from me. Good luck with the move!
Tnx :)

[Nightbringer]

Indeed, good luck and I hope you find a way to continue playing.

[slysnake]

Silvan Elves up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9575) Will play my turn tonight :)

[slysnake]

Ok, I am getting a CTD at the loading screen upon starting up Third Age TW 2.1. I am sure I have done the requested modding correctly. Any ideas? (and yes, i have got the latest kingdoms patch >.<..)

[Myth]

Does this happen with other M2TW mods? If not then it's the resources for the main menu missing I suppose (M2TW crashes when it's missing resources, for example vanilla SS 6.4 crashes if you try to lead a battle with tier3 armour upgraded Hospitallier knights)

[slysnake]

Just with Third Age.. Do you recommend I just reinstall?

[Myth]

Yes. Delete the whole folder and follow the instructions from this (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=374565) thread. It shouldn't take long if you already have it downloaded.

I've set up two rar files with the necessary folder structure for easy modding for this hotseat and my regular SP campaign. Just extract them and override whenever you want to play your turn or play some SP.

Modded.
(https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9578)
Original. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9579)

[slysnake]

Mordor 2684

[deguerra]

Thanks Myth, you're a champion!

[Nightbringer]

News, Gondor's first army has been defeated and West Osgiliath is under siege.

Isengard!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9581

[deguerra]

All hail Sauron, Lord of the Earth! I mean...what?....I'm just an old man sitting in my tower...leave me be.

[deguerra]

Sorry for the wait, some minor computer issues. Harad up!

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9584

[Myth]

Fortunately for us Gondor has a lot of starting firepower and economy.

[deguerra]

Naught but propaganda attempts at keeping spirits high and the fractious "alliance" together. You are dust before the might of SoS!

[Rougeman]

Naught but propaganda attempts at keeping spirits high and the fractious "alliance" together. You are dust before the might of SoS!

SoS = Save our Souls? :clown:

[Myth]

I'll storm Isenguard and dance a jig on Saruman's grave :clown:

[LooseCannon1]

Rhun up (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9589)

[deguerra]

SoS = Save our Souls? :clown:

There will be none left to save you!


I'll storm Isenguard and dance a jig on Saruman's grave :clown:

That's Isengard to you, Elf!

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Gondor

2755

[deguerra]

bump? not that you're late Zim, just that you seem to be responding elsewhere and I wanted to make sure you've noticed :)

[phonicsmonkey]

bump? not that you're late Zim, just that you seem to be responding elsewhere and I wanted to make sure you've noticed :)

I think the only times I've ever managed to seriously annoy Zim it's been by reminding him his hotseat turn is up...:clown:

[Zim]

I got a pm, just been off and on today.

It's been longer than I thought. I may need an extension. Just a few hours. :bow:


bump? not that you're late Zim, just that you seem to be responding elsewhere and I wanted to make sure you've noticed :)

[deguerra]

Hehe. As I said, no issues, just wanted to make sure you'd got it.

[Zim]

Forgot that an army that's "frozen" for trying to move past a rebel settlement can still attack anyone in the next tile over. Cost me a lot but at least I was able to kill a Nazghul this turn.

Edit:, Oh, and Denethor was defeated and can't be attacked by Mordor this turn. Of course, I can't move him next turn so Mordor can likely kill him then. :clown:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9592

Cro still out? He sent me a pm about possibly subbing but I'm not sure I got back to him before he had left.

[Nightbringer]

nazgul died but you lost the battle? or did my army get destroyed as well?

[Zim]

Sadly, the former. Although it was funny seeing my remaining units (one of 7 general's bodyguards and one of 3) route a couple hundred Orcs before the 3 man unit turned chicken was pretty funny.

[Nightbringer]

Ya, orcs don''t exactly do well against heavy cav. XD
I was really worried that army was going to die though, I just had no way of knowing how much you could throw into it.

[Zim]

Just what I had left in West Osgiliath plus Denethor and his bodyguards. I then made a further mistake by attacking with Denethor rather than sallying (so it was a bridge battle with me as the attacker).

I think they only killed a few orcs (I keep wanting to say Orks :clown:) on each charge but the morale penalty for the Nazghul dying was apparently quite big (and by then everyone was "exhausted").

Your army is at about half strength or so from when you ended your turn.

[Nightbringer]

Oh man I wish they were orks. Get some shootas in there and just spray bullets in all directions, get a nice WAAAAAGGGHH started. :)

[Zim]

I wonder if they would force the weedy looking local Orks into the Waaaagghh! or just kill them for not being Orky enough.

[Myth]

Go Gondor! In my SP High Elven campaign I've had to save Rohan's arse from a couple of huge Invasion armies and I've single handedly ended the OOTMM and all but extinguished the OOG with the help of the Dwarves (who rule as an AI controlled race, being so favored in autocalc).

Bt Gondor... Man Gondor has been topping the charts, sometimes being contested by Mordor but overall being able to produce so much stuff as to stalemate Mordor and Haard alike. Somehow the stupid AI managed to loose both Osgiliaths around turn 60 but by that time I had a full stack alraedy there to "liberate them". Still Gondor is spewing stack after stack from Minas Tirith and if these were fougth battles between AI armies it would have stomped Mordor right up to the Black Gate I think.

BTW I would volnteer to sub Rohan if for some reason you cannot put the time into it Zim.

[Zim]

Turn 60? I'll have lost both Osgiliaths by turn 6. ~;p

[Nightbringer]

Turn 60? I'll have lost both Osgiliaths by turn 6. ~;p

Look on the bright side, it'll be turn 7 when I actually take them. :cool:

[Nightbringer]

Look on the bright side, it'll be turn 7 when I actually take them. :cool:

Wait, maybe not, what turn are we actually on?

In any case, I think you are still going to have a fine chance against me, you really have a lot of good provinces and Mordor bankrupts right off the bat pretty much no matter what you do.

[Myth]

Well the AI may or may have not lost them in the early stages. Given the size of the map and that Imladris cannot make spies or Diplomats, it took me 30 turns just to get to Gondor's Western border. Point is, they lost them AT turn 60, when I had already pushed the other AI baddies pretty far back. But archers suck in AR, I'd like to see Mordor assaulting Osgiliath when it's stacked with Gondor's archers.

BTW the 3.0 release of TATW will feature custom battle map settlements. Minas Tirith, Osgiliath, Minas Morgul, The Black Gate, Moria, Helm's Deep, Imladris - all as they were in the movies/books. Pretty fun stuff! Imagine storming a 7 layered Minas Tirith that has 10 units of assorted archers with chevrons...

[Nightbringer]

bump

[Myth]

I'll be subbing Rohan tonight.

[Myth]

Eriador up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9603)

[Rougeman]

2829

[deguerra]

Assume you mean Silvan Elves? Is Slysnake's computer working these days?

[Myth]

Slysnake can play in the SS game, so yeah. But I think I have my turn after Eriador and definitely slysnake is after me as the Silvan Elves.

[deguerra]

Ah yes of course. Sorry, a combination of your subbing and the incorrect order in the OP had me confused. All good.

[slysnake]

Assume you mean Silvan Elves? Is Slysnake's computer working these days?

Hey! My computer is fine now with it's i5 and AMD 6950! :D Turns out it was just driver issues T_T will play my turn tonight...

[Myth]

The other elves (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9612) are up :D

[deguerra]

slysnake?

[slysnake]

Playing my turn right now.

EDIT: Mordor is up 2845

[deguerra]

I am having a lot of computer issues and will be unable to play my turns for at least a few days. I will try to give more information tonight.

Would you like us to wait or sub you? I'm ok waiting a few days if need be, but I guess it depends on your computer.

[Nightbringer]

Well, I think it will be 2-3 days from now, so I am okay with being subbed if you guys don't want to wait. I think my turn should be pretty self explanatory. Take osgiliath, continue other things along their current missions.

[Nightbringer]

Isengard up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9628

[deguerra]

Harad:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9629

[LooseCannon1]

Rhun up! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9632)

[Thanatos Eclipse]

2903

[Zim]

You can say that again. :beam: The best part was the charge of the five horsemen against a couple hundred orcs. The latter blinked first. :creep:

https://img854.imageshack.us/img854/2889/kingdoms201110230745548.jpg (https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/854/kingdoms201110230745548.jpg/)

https://img714.imageshack.us/img714/1066/kingdoms201110230746326.jpg (https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/714/kingdoms201110230746326.jpg/)

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9637


Ya, orcs don''t exactly do well against heavy cav. XD

[Nightbringer]

...
:(

wait, wasn't he defeated in battle last turn...



Oh, and Denethor was defeated and can't be attacked by Mordor this turn. Of course, I can't move him next turn so Mordor can likely kill him then. :clown:

[Zim]

Crap, I missed that. I wasn't thinking in terms of being defeated when I used him to attack last turn (as opposed to if he were defeated by you on your turn).

I'll need an extension then, which at least gives us some time to decide about getting a player for Rohan.

Wait, the rule does seem to apply to defeats outside of the attacking player's turn ("beaten in battle by a faction that is after them in the turn order"). Did you attack Denethor last turn or had he retreated to that spot just from my failed attack?

- If an army is beaten in battle by a faction that is after them in the turn order that army may not move on the following turn. The player that defeated them should post which armies were beaten to make it easier to follow this and the following rule.

[phonicsmonkey]

Wait, the rule does seem to apply to defeats outside of the attacking player's turn ("beaten in battle by a faction that is after them in the turn order").

I was thinking about this myself recently. I don't think either rule about movement or immunity should apply in this case.

The reason is if you (Zim) attack on your turn and lose, your guy retreats using the rest of his movement points from that turn. He then has them refreshed at the start of the next turn, just as if he had never attacked. So it's fine for him to be attacked by other players on their turns and for him to move on his next turn.

The rule is intended to correct the unfairness which arises from (eg.) denethor being attacked on someone else's turn and then your not being able to move him (to safety or in counter-attack) when your turn comes around, leaving him wide open to attack on someone else's subsequent turn.

Does that all make sense?

So I think you just play on here, unless NB was going to attack him on his turn and refrained (which he shouldn't have even if the rule was in effect, because he had retreated to the city and was therefore not immune), in which case you might want to go back to there.

[Zim]

That's kind of the way I see it. Plus, after the retreat the enemy has the chance to take them at the point they retreated from as the owning player can't move them out of danger.

But then NB might have thought Denethor was out of bounds per the rule and not attacked him for that reason.

[phonicsmonkey]

But then NB might have thought Denethor was out of bounds per the rule and not attacked him for that reason.

Denethor was in Osgiliath right?

In which case he gets no immunity even if the rule is in place, so if NB thought that he would have been mistaken:



- An army which is beaten in battle may not be attacked on the following turn (because it is immobilized either by the game mechanic or by the rule above) by any faction unless it has retreated to a fort or settlement.

[Zim]

Nah, last turn I used Denethor to attack the army sieging West Osgiliath against a superior Orcish army. I lost the abttle and was not able to relieve the siege, and Denthor had retreated a bit southwest of the city. Osgiliath fell and I only took it this turn because the army within appeared as reinforcements to the one I attacked.

I don't think Denethor was attacked and defeated in the meantime on Mordor's turn as his bodyguard unit was about full size and he was in the spot I remembered (if he had been then he shouldn't have been able to mvoe this turn) but I'd need verification from NB to be sure.

[phonicsmonkey]

Nah, last turn I used Denethor to attack the army sieging West Osgiliath against a superior Orcish army. I lost the abttle and was not able to relieve the siege, and Denthor had retreated a bit southwest of the city. Osgiliath fell and I only took it this turn because the army within appeared as reinforcements to the one I attacked.

I don't think Denethor was attacked and defeated in the meantime on Mordor's turn as his bodyguard unit was about full size and he was in the spot I remembered (if he had been then he shouldn't have been able to mvoe this turn) but I'd need verification from NB to be sure.

Ah, I see. And you did state (incorrectly :laugh4:) in your post at the end of your last turn that he was immune.

I guess it just hinges on whether NB would have attacked him on his turn if he had the chance or not. You might need to go back to Mordor's turn for the replay.

[Zim]

So if there was a mistake I caused it.

We'll see what NB thinks when he gets back. I think as far as replaying turns It'd be better to just leave Denethor where he is a further turn rather than go through all the turns. Mordor can still kill him and it will take less time to sort out than replays.


Ah, I see. And you did state (incorrectly :laugh4:) in your post at the end of your last turn that he was immune.

I guess it just hinges on whether NB would have attacked him on his turn if he had the chance or not. You might need to go back to Mordor's turn for the replay.

[Nightbringer]

Ya, I wanted to attack Denethor who was just outside the city but couldn't because of that rule. I could easily see him and he was all on his own with a full stack of orcs next to him. I don't want to make people replay their turns so I don't need to go back and attack him on mine. I think what would be best is if he is left where he is right now for this turn as that is what Zim had said in his previous post. In the future we can change it so peoples own defeated armies are not subject to this rule.

[phonicsmonkey]

So if there was a mistake I caused it.

We'll see what NB thinks when he gets back. I think as far as replaying turns It'd be better to just leave Denethor where he is a further turn rather than go through all the turns. Mordor can still kill him and it will take less time to sort out than replays.

Makes sense.

[Zim]

I'll replay in the morning.

While we have a chance there were a couple other things I've been wondering about. The former happened on the previous turns, the latter then and on mine.

When you siege a settlement in TATW it appears to use the mod trick of creating an impassable zone around the settlement that prevents anyone that isn't attacking from moving through the space (represented on map by the little tents around the besieged settlement. I counted on this to protect my main army when I sieged East Osgiliath. However, clicking on the army sieging the settlement allows you to go through it. Or more, accurately, you pass into the otherwise impassable tile next to the city and then stop.

The second thing, which I thought of as additional protection, was the freezing of a unit upon hitting a tile next to an enemy/neutral settlement. Apparently an army frozen in such a manner can still move a tile if they have an adjacent enemy to click on. I assume this is in game to be able to attack settlements (you freeze entering the tile next to a settlement but can still click on and attack it. The game program doesn't know the difference between the settlement and adkacent armies for moving purposes). NB did this after passing through the siege tents, and I did it with Denethor to hit his army on the bridge.

Imagine my surprise when my doubly protected army was defeated by an enemy that bypassed the settlement that had to be taken before you can enter the bridge west of it. :dizzy2:

These are tricks that I think the AI is incapable of. I'm not sure if a rule is needed for this (there are probably a hundred different little unintended "exploits" that can't all be ruled on) but at least would like to warn players of this particular looparound for getting around/through chokepoints.

[Nightbringer]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean, I know all I did was right click on your army. I have noticed a lot of strange things that happen with osgiliath in this mod. Having a bridge between two adjacent settlements seem to create some very odd occurrences, at least in my experience playing SP.

[Zim]

When you siege a settlement insome mods it creates an impassable one tile layer covering the little pixelated tents around the city, so that you cannot go onto any tile adjacent to the city unless you click on the city itself or on something past the city and get stopped next to it. Checking an old save this appears not to be the case in TATW so I was mistaken.

Usually you also cannot attack an army on the other side of a settlement that's not your unless you take the long way around or click on the opposing army, get stopped by passing the town, then click on the army again (at least, I think that works). The bridge between the Osgiliaths seems to be some wierd sort of bug or exception since you can somehow move diagonally past the settlement to immediately attack someone in between, but only if an army is on the bridge. I checked it and with no army to target between the cities you get stuck and cannot bypass one to get onto the bridge (not in a single turn at least).

I was counting on the fact you would not be able to past rebel East Osgiliath to attack my army on the bridge. Finding that rebel settlement could somehow be bypassed was quite shocking. I'm not complaining (I did it back to you the turn after, with less successful results) but it's a wierd enough bug (or whatever we want to call it) tha I wanted the other players to be aware of it just in case it causes issues with other choke points. Aorry that my last post was a bit of a jumble. I was rushing off to work when I made it, and got some of the mechanics wrong.

This save should be fixed.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9638

[Nightbringer]

no problem, I just wanted to be sure I didn't do something I shouldn't. I guess I wasn't suprised by that because I have played this mod enough in SP to know that that bridge is very odd.

[Myth]

Sorry but which faction is due to play now? I see only links to the saves but not who is up :)

[Zim]

Rohan, which I understand is still in need of a sub.

[slysnake]

Has he actually quit? RexLegend may be able to take his place...

[Zim]

I guess he said in a TWC thread that he was quitting hotseats for a while. I'll pm him and see if I can get ahold of him but given his last activity date I'm not optimistic.

Last Activity: 10-03-11 15:18

[Zim]

No response. Any allies willing to sub? I'd like to wait a couple turns before deciding whether to turn the faction AI or not.

[Myth]

I'll sub tonight.

[RexLegend]

Birdie on the tree told me ya that there's something causin' problem? I'm interested about this, but I need to take a look on save to make decision. Is it ok? :)

[Myth]

Zim should I play Rohan's turn or do we give it to RexLegend?

[Zim]

If he's interested he's welcome to take a look. :yes:

I see a new password was set for the faction. Would you be able to send it to him or is it something you use for your own factions in other games?

[RexLegend]

Bump.

Well, if turn has crucial importance, then I think Myth could play it. Either password needs resetting or sent to me via PM, so I could take a look.

[Mithridate]

If possible Id like to join up as well. Is there a spot?

I have to say, I LOVE the dales :)

[Nightbringer]

rohan is available, and it is there turn right now.

PS, welcome to the game!!
I caught it this time :)

[phonicsmonkey]

In the absence of Zim I'll say I think Rex was first in best dressed to take over Rohan. However he needs the pw cleared so he can look at the save and I don't have TATW installed so I can't help...I will keep an eye out for Zim and alert him to this. Maybe in the meantime Myth should sub to keep the game moving.

[Nightbringer]

oh woops, sorry, I didn't realize rex had accepted the offer.

[Myth]

Sure.

[phonicsmonkey]

oh woops, sorry, I didn't realize rex had accepted the offer.

that's the impression I got but I think he wanted to look at the save before committing to it

[Myth]

If you have the admin PW I can clear the save for our new player. I swear not to abuse it for anything else, and when Zim comes he can change it.

[phonicsmonkey]

If you have the admin PW I can clear the save for our new player. I swear not to abuse it for anything else, and when Zim comes he can change it.

Actually you can't change it after the game has started and he might use it elsewhere so I would rather wait for him if that's ok

[Myth]

Well if you can't change it there's no way I'd want to know it :)

[Myth]

Eriador up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9661)

[Rougeman]

3032

[Myth]

Silvan Elves. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9662)

[Zim]

Sorry I missed this. Works been very short staffed (and on top of that I'm sick, bah). Things are going to be hectic through most of this month as we adjust to shift changes but should be back to normal after. I'll try to stay more on top of things in the meantime.

[Mithridate]

Well, PM me if theres room in here for another player.

As ive mentioned id love to play the Dales, perhaps in the service of Sauron? :)

[Myth]

Noo the Dale is currently topping the overall chart. Of course they'll be on our side :yes:

[slysnake]

Mordor... 3044

[Nightbringer]

isengard!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9667

[deguerra]

Harad:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9669

[LooseCannon1]

Rhun up (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9672)

[deguerra]

Well, PM me if theres room in here for another player.

As ive mentioned id love to play the Dales, perhaps in the service of Sauron? :)

I don't suppose we can have Mithridate join as one of the evil factions? Would that imbalance things too much?

[Zim]

Hmmm...I may have made a mistake setting this up. I'm told a defensive battle for a human player (attacked by an AI faction) came up. I hadn't planned to have defensive battles played.

It's a little late to restart. My first thought would be to just have them all autoresolved. Does that work for everyone?

[Myth]

The problem with this is that the Elves will be significantly disadvantaged. That battle is for my stack with Elrond that's sieging Goblin Town. If you AR the stupid orcs with their 250 men per unit will win hands down. However playing these battles will slow the game down more. Up to you guys.

[deguerra]

The problem with this is that the Elves will be significantly disadvantaged. That battle is for my stack with Elrond that's sieging Goblin Town. If you AR the stupid orcs with their 250 men per unit will win hands down. However playing these battles will slow the game down more. Up to you guys.

But AR is what would normally happen if defensive battles were not enabled, right? I know what you mean, you're 100% right, but on the other hand, defensive battles may come up all the time. I'm perfectly happy with once or twice-off exceptions, but I really don't think it's a good idea to let players fight every defensive battle. The game isn't that speedy as things are.

[Myth]

I didn't even know we could enable defensive battles. In other hotseats they are always autocalced. However TATW is an exception, the mod was not intended for AR battles and the mod staff warns against doing it.

[phonicsmonkey]

you can enable defensive battles in any mod in the preferences file. It's a pain as they all come up at the end of the turn one by one and it would be a logistical nightmare to pass the save around and fight them all

[deguerra]

Yeah, it's always possible. I often use it when I'm playing a "hotseat" by myself, but never in an actual one.

[Zim]

Yeah, it's mostly used for rpgs so that the hotseat function (in case the gm wants to play some of the other nations' turns) can be used but players can still fight their defensive battles.

It's been years since I used those settings so I'm not sure hot I ended up doing so in this game. I don't even think I have a preferences file with defensive battles enabled on my computer anymore.

I don't see any concerns about aring the battle so that just leaves one question. Who should do it? I can AR any defensive battles but it might be inappropriate for me to see how they go since I'm also a player in the game. The alternative would be to rope a non player into doing it. At least with relatively few ai factions it shouldn't come up often after we get further into the game.


you can enable defensive battles in any mod in the preferences file. It's a pain as they all come up at the end of the turn one by one and it would be a logistical nightmare to pass the save around and fight them all

[Myth]

AR it, i'm 100% certain it's mine. Elrond will be defeated...

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Yeah, it's mostly used for rpgs so that the hotseat function (in case the gm wants to play some of the other nations' turns) can be used but players can still fight their defensive battles.

It's been years since I used those settings so I'm not sure hot I ended up doing so in this game. I don't even think I have a preferences file with defensive battles enabled on my computer anymore.

I don't see any concerns about aring the battle so that just leaves one question. Who should do it? I can AR any defensive battles but it might be inappropriate for me to see how they go since I'm also a player in the game. The alternative would be to rope a non player into doing it. At least with relatively few ai factions it shouldn't come up often after we get further into the game.

How about from now on, if a defensive battle comes up and it is one of our teams I'll ar it, but if it is one of your teams I'll save it and pass it on to you.

[Zim]

That seem reasonable to me. I suggest also that the player aring the battle take screenshots of the setup and results screen in case the owner of the defending army wants to see them.

It was someone on my team so I ared the battle and played Gondor's turn. I need to run off to work but tomorrow I'll clear Rohan's pw for Rex to look at.

[RexLegend]

No need for it. I have to abandon idea of joining EoTA due to expectation of rising levels of schoolworks. Sorry guys...

[Zim]

No problem. Real life has had an adverse affect on the amount fo time I can spend here lately as well.

I'll put it up in the looking for players thread.

[Zim]

No takers so far. Rohan is a vital faction. Anyone mind if I have it subbed a couple more turns to see if a new player shows up?

Good news, things have somewhat settled down at work. It will still be busy, but you should see a lot more of me in the following weeks.

[Nightbringer]

I'm fine with you subbing it.

[Thanatos Eclipse]

I don't see why there'd be a problem with you subbing :)

[phonicsmonkey]

These riders of Rohan.

Do they have......horse archers?

[Myth]

The Silvan Elves have them. Not sure about Rohan, I'd have to check. They have plenty of cav overall though. Bear in mind that even if they do have HAs it will be some time before you can recruit them. Such is the way of TATW.

[deguerra]

They do. Not sure at what stage they get them.

[slysnake]

They do. Not sure at what stage they get them.

As soon as I can! :D

[Myth]

Eriador. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9708)

[Rougeman]

3155

[Myth]

Silvan Elves up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9714)

[slysnake]

Mordor

3166

[Nightbringer]

isengard up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9717

[deguerra]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9719

Hehe. Well there goes Isengard. Sauruman went out to battle the forces of Rohan, fought bravely and killed two of their generals, but was overwhelmed. He was captured, but sadly nobody was left to pay his ransom (16k gold?!?! What am I, made of money?).

So I think this spells the end of me as a faction. I do not think my rather feeble production in Dunland can produce anything like what would be necessary. On that note, for future games, Isengard is in a pretty weak state. It simply cannot recruit anywhere near enough units before Rohan can come at it (not to take away from Rohan's victory, they pulled together an astounding number of troops!).

Anyway, Harad is up!

[phonicsmonkey]

sadly nobody was left to pay his ransom (16k gold?!?! What am I, made of money?)

It's a shame that there is no way to pool resources in these team games - it would be fun to sit around discussing whether to pay the ransom to get Saruman back...

[Nightbringer]

um, I doubt all the players inte game combined have 16k sitting around, but I do agree with your point in general. It would be fun to work out the logistics of sharing resources as a team.

And I'm sorry to hear things have gone badly for you deguerra, both a teammate because we are losing a player, and because you haven't gotten to be in this game for long.

[Myth]

Well when I took over Rohan they had been content to sit around, spread all over the kingdom. I gathered their troops in an army that would be devastating in the field, and had a strategy in place to cripple Isengard economically (since cav armies are somewhat weak when assaulting cities, especially such with ballista towers). You going out and attacking the two armies in the field really gave Rohan an edge IMO.

However, the economy of this mod is such that due to corruption and high upkeep no one is going around with 20k nor do we have a lot of full stacks to throw around. TATW is slow to start and slower to develop (and the distances are huge). That, and the lack of forts, make it vital for player to plan and take measured steps and actions.

Unless they're Mordor, in which case they just kill everyone anyway :laugh4: No but seriously, the AI has huge garrison and money scritps in SP - there Isengard spews out hordes of troops. In MP it's different.

If there ever is a second TATW hotseat I'll get Gondor for sure.

[Nightbringer]

Well when I took over Rohan they had been content to sit around, spread all over the kingdom. I gathered their troops in an army that would be devastating in the field, and had a strategy in place to cripple Isengard economically (since cav armies are somewhat weak when assaulting cities, especially such with ballista towers). You going out and attacking the two armies in the field really gave Rohan an edge IMO.

However, the economy of this mod is such that due to corruption and high upkeep no one is going around with 20k nor do we have a lot of full stacks to throw around. TATW is slow to start and slower to develop (and the distances are huge). That, and the lack of forts, make it vital for player to plan and take measured steps and actions.

Unless they're Mordor, in which case they just kill everyone anyway :laugh4: No but seriously, the AI has huge garrison and money scritps in SP - there Isengard spews out hordes of troops. In MP it's different.

If there ever is a second TATW hotseat I'll get Gondor for sure.

I think you overestimate mordor. I am finding mordor much more pressed for money than gondor was when I played them.

[Myth]

Yep. There's a huge difference between AI "zergrush" Mordor and regular human-controlled Mordor. That being said, cost-efficiency will be the name of the game here, and who gets Catapults first.

Gondor can be more cost-effective, since they have all three main lines of units covered pretty well (pike/heavy infantry, archers and cavarly). The elves are really cost-effective, if I were allowed to fight that defensive battle for example I would have killed 1500 orcs with a few bowmen only.

[deguerra]

Agreed with all the above. In fact, almost all factions struggle quite a bit in vanilla TATW when player controlled. I guess that's the idea. The trouble with Isengard is the double whammy of few starting towns and immediate enemies. I honestly built every single unit whenever I could, and sent it to Isengard. As a result, i fought Rohan with just over 3/4 of a stack.

Yes, a field battle may not have been ideal, but when I saw the size of Rohan's force, I knew the AI wouldn't be able to hold Isengard in a siege. I've beaten the AI up so badly with such inferior odds, and I happen to know you are a damn good player Myth (if only we could have kept your hands off Rohan :tongue:). So I opted for the glorious battle I could at least control. It didn't help at all that there was a second half stack waiting for me when I got there.

But I knew what I was getting into when I signed up for this. I did hope to last a little longer and build up a bit more of a force, but such is life.

[LooseCannon1]

I've got plenty of opinions/comments about this mod to add but no time to do so now. I'll just say that this mod is NOT hotseatable. And that Rhun (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9724) is up

[slysnake]

I've got plenty of opinions/comments about this mod to add but no time to do so now. I'll just say that this mod is NOT hotseatable. And that Rhun (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9724) is up

Why not? Yes, it takes a heck of a long time to get anywhere on the huge map, but, then again, I'm starting to get into it now :)

[Myth]

Agreed with all the above. In fact, almost all factions struggle quite a bit in vanilla TATW when player controlled. I guess that's the idea. The trouble with Isengard is the double whammy of few starting towns and immediate enemies. I honestly built every single unit whenever I could, and sent it to Isengard. As a result, i fought Rohan with just over 3/4 of a stack.

Yes, a field battle may not have been ideal, but when I saw the size of Rohan's force, I knew the AI wouldn't be able to hold Isengard in a siege. I've beaten the AI up so badly with such inferior odds, and I happen to know you are a damn good player Myth (if only we could have kept your hands off Rohan :tongue:). So I opted for the glorious battle I could at least control. It didn't help at all that there was a second half stack waiting for me when I got there.

But I knew what I was getting into when I signed up for this. I did hope to last a little longer and build up a bit more of a force, but such is life.

Thank you for the compliment, though I'm beginning to think any faction with cav FMs is a bit broken for hotseat games. I accepted a ton of adoptions, and the previous player spent the first 3-4 turns doing just that. These FMs made the difference I think, Rohan is on the edge of it's production capability sans any new conquests.

That second stack was there in the forests (I was hoping you won't build a tower to scout them out) just for that reason. Naturally ambushes don't work if a player loads, so I congratulate you on being honourable! :bow:

There are some rebel settlements to the West that Isengard can take (and the AI sure does) but for a human controlled Isengard that would mean leaving your capital city unguarded. I'm curious if Rhun and Haard have also accepted dozens of FM adoptions to form mighty cav-stacks.

What the mod lacks is the usual slaughterfest dynamics of a regular mod, and also it makes the AI a very valuable ally. Getting the Dwarves/Dale to ally with us means that:

1. They throw huge armies at the human controlled evil factions.
2. They never betray us (TATW doesn't allow backstabbing AI)
3. They pay for the privilege of being our allies.

[Nightbringer]

ya. I REALLY wish my generals were cav...

[Thanatos Eclipse]

More ai attacks
3190

[slysnake]

ya. I REALLY wish my generals were cav...

My archer unit family member units still have their uses ^^

[Mithridate]

Cav FM bodyguard is downright insane, i do however favor archer BG later on.

Third age surely is hotseatable, but its very complicated to make it an equal fight.

[Zim]

Sorry for the wait, I will have both the AI turn attack(s) and my turn done tomorrow. :bow:

[Zim]

Rohan

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9733

[Mithridate]

Free People of Eriador up (heh, FPE sounds like a group of hippies :laugh4:)

Isengard have fallen! The gates where left open and our troops marched in unopposed, the whole citadel abandoned.
Soon these lands will once again be populated by good people, the lands once again flourishing with the help of our hard labor.

Enraged by all deforestation and defilement of ancient Roman land, we march to reap rightful vengeance on the Dunns and all those who served Saruman.

[Rougeman]

3220

[Zim]

Bump

[Myth]

Wow did I forget about this or what... Sorry! I'll play it tonight.

[Myth]

Silvan Elves up. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9754) Sorry for the delay!

[slysnake]

Mordor 3270

[Nightbringer]

Isengard!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9756

[deguerra]

Didn't have much to do :)

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9765

harad!

[LooseCannon1]

Oh wow after turns and turns of walking,:creep: my diplomat finally reached a neighbor. Rhun up! (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9770)

[Thanatos Eclipse]

Would have had this posted sooner but I couldn't get on the site last night or this morning :/

3296

[Zim]

I wasn't able to get on then either.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9782

Rohan

[Mithridate]

FPoE up!

Fangorn has been cleared of bandits and is now under the tending hands of Rohan, never again shall it be defiled. The pacification of the Dunns and cleansing of sauromans remaining creatures continues

[Rougeman]

3332

[Myth]

Silvan Elves (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9791)

[slysnake]

Mordor 3339

[Nightbringer]

Isengard up!
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9798

[deguerra]

sorry guys, my computer is acting up, would someone mind subbing/letting the AI do things for me from now?

Either way, I'm off to Germany tomorrow and won't be back til the end of January. Given the situation, you could just make Isengard AI permanently. I doubt I'll survive much longer anyway.

I've had a blast and sorry for ending it like this.

[Nightbringer]

Sorry to lose you, but I hope you like germany, and see you when you get back!

[slysnake]

bump - are we going to be setting Isengard as AI then?