Question for My Fellow Romans about Type 3 and 4 governments

[Oddnerd]

Where do other Roman players place type 3 and type 4 governments? I was in the habit of always making alliance regions type 4, but I found that paying governors in those areas was draining (not to mention irritating since you have to replenish dead ones), so I have tried to switch all areas without choice infantry units to type 3.

Where do other players find the type 4 unit access unnecessary? I tend to place my type 4s in brutium (for fantastic early bruttian infantry/hoplite armies), gaul (for heavy swordsmen), the far western tip of africa (for those beautiful elephants), and crete (for a supply of archers).

I have found that there is very little return for placing type 4 in iberia, and since it is expansion region I just go type 2 and take the low level infantry that come with it.

Does anyone think the lower and middle tier german units are worth using? I have never used any substantial amount of german infantry so I don't know how effective they are. At the moment I go type 2 in Germania and just ship in native troops from Rome, while using spearmen as a garrison.

[Ca Putt]

take a look at this:

Europa Romanorum: roman unit guide (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?93896-Europa-Romanorum-Roman-unit-guide)

Generally there are few regional units only available through the highest MIC level, I'd fancy it's no more than maybe 5 for the romans. So from a recruitment pov it's best to build maybe a maximum of 10 lvl 4 govs widely spread in provinces that provide an elite local unit. I wouldn't go with a uniform distribution of govs for example I'd place one or two level 4 (or 3 look in the guide) govs in germania to ensure varied recruitment.
From a roleplay PoV(which imho is prudent when playing the romans) I'd generally make most provinces I conquer "allied" provinces first and later demolish the gov and get them closer to the empire...

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

This thread should answer all your questions.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?93896-Europa-Romanorum-Roman-unit-guide

Thanks to konny, who wrote it.

Germania: In Camillan/Polybian times, Type 3 govt. recommended. After Marian reforms, upgrade to Type 2. You may have to upgrade to level 3 or 4 local barracks before you can recruit any German troops - it's a lot of effort for only 2 kinds of unit, Dugunthiz and Herunautoz. Both are good units, if poorly armoured, but its questionable whether it's worth the effort to get them.

Personally, I stay out of Germania in Camillan/Polybian period. If I have to go there, it's only for a raid. If I need German troops for that, I hire mercenaries. After the Marian reforms, I can recruit Germans straight into the legions with Cohors Reformata and Type 2 govt.

[Blxz]

Its type 4 in gaul for super cavalry right? Romans can get them I think but its been a long time since I last did a normal roman game so I might be mixing my factions here. but those guides are great if they are what I think they are (didn't bother reading the links this time).

Otherwise type 3 will cover almost everything you could need in the game. And by Marians Type 2's are the way to go for the majority of the land anyway.

[FinnishedBarbarian]

Romans and Carthies both get brihentin from type 5 regional barracks it's actually quite odd that romans and carthies can use neitos and brihentin before gauls themselves.

I'd suggest constructing allied goverments only in scourcrow, gallic province (free to choose which one), numidia and one of the thraikian provinces (serdike, naissos or tylis).

I also construct type 4's on provinces that I don't intend to keep, it's handy when you want to destroy a target faction, but have no desire to hold the province in longterm. Usually allied goverment gives you enough time to upgrade goverment building (if possible) thus preventing settlement rebelling back to the previous owner, type 4's are usually considered expensive, but it's actually cheaper to place puppet ruler than keep fullstack garrisons also the AI usually sends only some crapstacks against cities that have small garrison so you should be able to hold those cities effortlessly.

[Cute Wolf]

Romans and Carthies both get brihentin from type 5 regional barracks it's actually quite odd that romans and carthies can use neitos and brihentin before gauls themselves.

I'd suggest constructing allied goverments only in scourcrow, gallic province (free to choose which one), numidia and one of the thraikian provinces (serdike, naissos or tylis).

I also construct type 4's on provinces that I don't intend to keep, it's handy when you want to destroy a target faction, but have no desire to hold the province in longterm. Usually allied goverment gives you enough time to upgrade goverment building (if possible) thus preventing settlement rebelling back to the previous owner, type 4's are usually considered expensive, but it's actually cheaper to place puppet ruler than keep fullstack garrisons also the AI usually sends only some crapstacks against cities that have small garrison so you should be able to hold those cities effortlessly.

neitos and brihentin are covered in their own descriptions actually, well, basically, Neitos was professional gallic swordsmen with chainmail armour, and Brihentin was heavy cavalry

as on Type IV governments, yeah, it's worth only when you're sure there's a high tier regional units there, outside that, pretty much not efficient. BTW, if type III was sufficient? why not type3>?

[Kival]

Romans and Carthies both get brihentin from type 5 regional barracks it's actually quite odd that romans and carthies can use neitos and brihentin before gauls themselves.

From the start on Brihentin are already a force of the gaulish armies as general's bodyguards. Neitos are by the way also used as body guard unit for the allied general. However it does make sense that romans and carthies can recrui them as rofessional soldiers earlier because they had the money to equip whole units with chainmail. The gauls lacked the infrastructure for that.

[Ludens]

However it does make sense that romans and carthies can recrui them as rofessional soldiers earlier because they had the money to equip whole units with chainmail. The gauls lacked the infrastructure for that.

That does sound logical, but the Celtic warriors serving Rome did so either as allied forces (i.e. raised and equipped in their traditional manner) or, lateron, as part of the Roman army (as Auxilla or legionaries). The Romans never imposed a "professional" standard on their Celtic allies.

Secondly, aren't Brihentin made up of nobility rather than paid soldiers?

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

That does sound logical, but the Celtic warriors serving Rome did so either as allied forces (i.e. raised and equipped in their traditional manner) or, lateron, as part of the Roman army (as Auxilla or legionaries). The Romans never imposed a "professional" standard on their Celtic allies.


Agreed.

Isn't it likely to be the case, though, that Gauls who willingly co-operated and traded with Rome became richer than other Gauls who did not? Rome had a taste for Celtic goods long before the conquest of Gaul. Perhaps being a Roman ally was very profitable for a Gallic tribe, during the 'honeymoon period' while Rome still valued the tribe as an ally and trading partner and couldn't yet spare the military power to simply crush them and enslave them?

So perhaps certain Gallic tribes allied to Rome were richer and could afford better equipment for their elite warriors.

[Kival]

That does sound logical, but the Celtic warriors serving Rome did so either as allied forces (i.e. raised and equipped in their traditional manner) or, lateron, as part of the Roman army (as Auxilla or legionaries). The Romans never imposed a "professional" standard on their Celtic allies.

Perhaps I should just quote the unit descrition to give an better impression what I mean:


Gallic auxilia and allies, of both Rome and Carthage, were actually employed in this manner before such soldiers were used widely by the Gauls themselves. The Romans did this to ensure their Gallic allies and auxilia had an edge over the Gallic warriors they engaged, and Carthaginians re-outfitted their Boii allies after Cannae in this manner. The Romans did this to ensure their Gallic allies and auxilia had an edge over the Gallic warriors they engaged, and Carthaginians re-outfitted their Boii allies after Cannae in this manner.


Secondly, aren't Brihentin made up of nobility rather than paid soldiers?

I was mostly speaking about Neitos, Brihentin could be seen as representing allied nobel forces (though I'm not really sure If they were all nobles). My point for Brihentin was that the gauls have them in big numbers from the start: as bodyguards.

PS: I'm sorry for some missing leters, my keyboard seems to have some problems.

[FinnishedBarbarian]

More likely the team made decision to have them as reform units because otherwise the gauls would employ them in unrealistic numbers during early game.

I expect that in EB2 the neitos and brihentin like units are recruitable from the start, but they will regenerate/increase really slowly on the recruitment pool. Afterall it wasn't like the aedui or averni couldn't employ such equipped units it's more of a matter of numbers.

[Kival]

Actually gauls already are able to use brihentin and neitos in small numbers from the star (or short afterwards for neitos): They are he bodyguard units of the gauls and the allied gaul general. I think it's as well represtented this way as far as possible in the rome engine. If the quote is true, romans and carthaginians used neitos in big numbers earlier than the gauls for themselves.