New SS6.4 hotseat

[phonicsmonkey]

hey guys

With Glorious Achievements about to finish up we need to get a new Grand Campaign hotseat started.

I think we should just play a game in SS6.4 with as many players as possible and stick to the standard VCs...Dogs of War 2 maybe?

BUT, what if we used this save (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9171) which is one of the test games I made for the WotK2 game. The Mongols won't arrive in this one because I stufffed up the script, so it's perfect really.

Let me know who's in and what you think of using that save as a starting point. We could draw lots for faction picks again to make it fair, have a grace period for reorganisation etc.

[Nightbringer]

I'm in, and in full support of the save and drawing lots!

[Zim]

Here's a quick screenshot of the map for anyone who's interested.

https://img846.imageshack.us/img846/6948/kingdoms201109300139173.jpg (https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/846/kingdoms201109300139173.jpg/)

[Nightbringer]

MMM, I can almost taste the awesomeness that the Moors could be. Venice is also incredibly good in that save as I remember, lots of territory and huge armies.

[Zim]

I do like the look of Venice (Sicily also looks like it oculd be fun, if not nearly as powerful). Then again, I seem to be on a Norway kick my last few games. :clown:

[Myth]

Venice, France and ERE are all good here. My pick will be determined by whether this is AR or lead battles. I'm against drawing lots because that's how I ended up as the K-Shah in WOTK2

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm against drawing lots because that's how I ended up as the K-Shah in WOTK2

don't trust your luck, huh?

I'm thinking we fight battles in this one.

[LooseCannon1]

There are definitely some factions that should NOT be in the lottery. Leon/Castile and Aragon and HRE should be excluded. Those could be destroyed too quickly for anyone to have fun with them. With no Mongols, I'd volunteer to play K-Shah on that map. Are the save files modified the same as in WotK2? That way I could use them in my second install of SS6.4 and I'd be in. (Hate to have a third install:laugh4:)

[phonicsmonkey]

Are the save files modified the same as in WotK2?

Only the script is different and you told us last time that didn't need to be modded by anyone other than the game starter, so you should be fine.

[Visor]

If I were to join, I'd take either Spain, HRE or Aragon.

But I'm not. Good luck!

[deguerra]

I could be convinced. Give me one of the small factions any day. What would I need to do SS 6.4 wise. I have it, I just mean in terms of settings?

[phonicsmonkey]

If I were to join, I'd take either Spain, HRE or Aragon.

But I'm not. Good luck!

C'mon, you wouldn't have posted here if you weren't tempted....what are you going to do when GA finishes? C'moooooon

deguerra, I'm not sure you really need to do anything actually. the descr_strat file was modded just to make all factions playable but if we're not going to have any of the usually non-playable factions human controlled (eg. mongols, timurids, pope) we may not encounter any problems..

to be safe, I'll post the modded descr_strat file so people can use it. It's actually already in the first post of the WotK2 thread.

[Visor]

C'mon, you wouldn't have posted here if you weren't tempted....what are you going to do when GA finishes? C'moooooon

:laugh4: Sorry, but I was replying to Loose, I like the smaller factions, makes for more of a challenge. And, I still have FN and WoTK. :clown:

[ArcturUs]

I'm in. I would like it if we could choose factions by lots, I wouldn't mind if i was left with bad options :P Just trying out my luck

[LooseCannon1]

Only the script is different and you told us last time that didn't need to be modded by anyone other than the game starter, so you should be fine. I wasn't sure. Good to know.


:laugh4: Sorry, but I was replying to Loose, I like the smaller factions, makes for more of a challenge. And, I still have FN and WoTK. :clown:I've thought of setting up a "Toughman" challenge where you could only choose from among the small factions using Gracul AI and having fought battles and, of course, choosing factions by lot. It would require starting at turn 1 of early era SS.

[slysnake]

Count me in :)

[CROPrasec]

I must think about it cause i'm in 13 hs's right now :P

[Myth]

Lol I trust my luck. There's an online game board where my luck is dubbed legendary :D But what I don't want to happen is be stuck in a hotseat where I've said I'll play yet I get a nation I have no passion for.

[Rougeman]

im in :yes:

[SilverShield]

sounds good. just checked the save some are in very good shape others are dead already. picking in a fair way is getting hard. lottery probably is most fair. better was we all agreed on who pics what. negotiating somehow

[Ignoramus]

I'm interested.

[phonicsmonkey]

Great, that's 11 players already, so we're pretty much done!

It seems like most people are tolerant of the idea of drawing lots but maybe instead we can just negotiate. Could those of you who haven't expressed a preference please take a look at the save and maybe post your first, second and third choice factions?

Then I'll see if we can accomodate everyone without the random draw.

[Nightbringer]

1st choice the Moors
2nd choice England
3rd choice Fatimid Caliphate

[Zim]

1st England
2nd Sicily
3rd Kiev

[Myth]

The Mongols do arrive for me Monkey. They are playable as well. Also, next turn is when the TO emerges. Here's a SS of the Mongols

2589

I also want to ask whether we will use crusades/jihads or not.

Right now my list is:

1. Mongols
2. England
3. Siciliy

If we do use crusades/jihads, then:

1. Teutonic Order (with Crusades and no way to be killed. Just a funny nation to play) <<<

[Rougeman]

1st Kwarzemians
2nd Cumans
3rd Aragon :grin3:

[ArcturUs]

1. Moors
2. England
3. ERE :laugh4:




3rd Aragon :grin3:
:surprised:

[slysnake]

1st Denmark
2nd France
3rd England

[SilverShield]

so are the mongols in or out?

if the mongols are in its

egypt
moors
sicily


if the mongols are out its


1 kwarz
im all kwarz this game then




2 egypt
3 moors

[phonicsmonkey]

so are the mongols in or out?

I'll check this later

[deguerra]

Ah what the hell. I want a challenge.

1. Norway
2. HRE
3. Spain

top that!

[Rougeman]

1st Kwarzemians
2nd Cumans
3rd Aragon :grin3:

i change my preferances to these if the Timurids are playable:

1st Timurids
2nd Cumans
3rd Aragon

though they probably wont, so if they arnt:

1st Cumans
2nd Aragon
3rd Genoa

[phonicsmonkey]

Ok, regarding the Mongols yes their first few stacks have spawned but that's all they're going to get because the script is broken. That's why I couldn't use this save for WotK2.

So I suggest we disband them all and just let the Kwaz take out their family members. Same with the TO, like I did in WotK2.

Myth, you'll need to make a new first pick.

The Timurids may or may not spawn but that will be a long way off won't it? So Rouge I don't think that's a great pick.

My picks would be:

1) Kwaz
2) Moors
3) Egypt

[Rougeman]

1st Cumans
2nd Aragon :grin3:
3rd Novgorod

[LooseCannon1]

Ok, my choices are

1st Egypt
2nd France
3rd England

The TO do not appear to be playable in the save posted. They appear but the game bypasses them in the turn order.

[Myth]

OK.

1. England
2. Sicily
3. France

[phonicsmonkey]

Ok, so far I'm allocating places based on preference and with the order of posting as a tiebreaker.

I have this (faction pick in bold), with Iggy left to pick:

NB: Moors
Zim: England
Ezil: Moors, England, ERE
Slysnake: Denmark
Silver: Kwaz
deguerra: Norway
Monkey: Kwaz, Moors, Egypt
Rouge: Cumans
Loose: Egypt, France
Myth – England, Sicily
Igno: ?

Everyone happy with that? No-one wants Venice?

[SilverShield]

looking good to me

im taking that some mongols arrrived but thats about it. some maybe aint that much of a dealbreaker. tho my first encounter with the mongols are kwarz back in a game at the other forum last year went pretty bad but kwarz is more developped here already so some fine battle of attrition probably are doing the trick already. guess its 3 for 1 as always against the mongols

maybe Quirl had a better ratio back then when he fought the battles with the seljuks. that was like 3 armies and he wore down almost 2 of mine

[Nightbringer]

I would have liked venice but I am already playing them in CoG, and in a single player migration game right now.

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm going to disband them. You'll just have to kill off the fms. Same with the TO.


looking good to me

im taking that some mongols arrrived but thats about it. some maybe aint that much of a dealbreaker. tho my first encounter with the mongols are kwarz back in a game at the other forum last year went pretty bad but kwarz is more developped here already so some fine battle of attrition probably are doing the trick already. guess its 3 for 1 as always against the mongols

maybe Quirl had a better ratio back then when he fought the battles with the seljuks. that was like 3 armies and he wore down almost 2 of mine

[Rougeman]

I'm going to disband them. You'll just have to kill off the fms. Same with the TO.

do you realy want to do that? im sure ghengis would love some Cuman Hospitality

[Nightbringer]

I'm sure he would he would settle his troops on the bodies of your men. The strength of the Mongols is truly ridiculous. They get around 100 stacks in this mod I believe. Although if the script is glitched on this save it wouldn't be as bad.

[phonicsmonkey]

do you realy want to do that? im sure ghengis would love some Cuman Hospitality

Well I can leave them for you if you guys prefer...it's really up to Silver though if he's playing Kwaz as they are menacing his cities.

They have five or six stacks and they won't receive any reinforcements.

[Rougeman]

adds more challenge(and fun:grin:) in the game if they are in, even though they only have like 4 stacks :yes:

[ArcturUs]

ERE hmm, so we are gonna reset the treasury like we did for the wotk2 or just play along? I wouldn't mind either way, just asking :rolleyes:

[Myth]

Why leave the Mongols there? Their stacks are not comparible to anything the other AI nations have. It's too much of a challenge to just leave off as "random AI danger" but will probably be too little to be played by a human.

In regards to Venice, they seemed nice on the minimap but when I rand them they did not seem very consolidated. Sure they hold most of Central europe but almost all their armies are on their border with the Romans.

I'll take one more look today, perhaps I'll change my mind, but I like Sicily's roster much better for fought battles.

[LooseCannon1]

The Mongols can't be left there as they are. That would make this game only a variation of WotK2 but with one major exception. There would be no incentive for anyone to help out SilverShield. He'd waste his faction trying to kill them by himself. Anybody who wanted to fight the Mongols sould have taken the Cumans, Turks, or K-Shah in WotK2:laugh4:.

[RexLegend]

Nooz! Is there something left for me??? :C

[slysnake]

Please please please could I be swapped to Venice? Rex has already told me that he would not mind playing Denmark instead of me :)

[SilverShield]

just kill them off. im good without those. thx



Well I can leave them for you if you guys prefer...it's really up to Silver though if he's playing Kwaz as they are menacing his cities.

They have five or six stacks and they won't receive any reinforcements.

[SilverShield]

if Rex is in im out. im not spending one second of my time on this if Rex is in




Nooz! Is there something left for me??? :C

[Nigel]

hmm, I would love to take part in a hotseat game and this sounds interesting.

I have MTW2, but I guess I would need some mod for this game (SS 6.4).
If you guys would think it ok for me to join, I would be happy to take any faction that is left over. I have never done a hotseat game and as this is my first, I dont mind if I get elmiminated early on - just to get an idea of what it is like and have a littel fun with it.

[Nightbringer]

Kieven Rus and Lithuania are both open and have pretty good starting positions in this save. I hope you play and

WELCOME TO THE THRONE ROOM!!! ~:grouphug:


hmm, I would love to take part in a hotseat game and this sounds interesting.

I have MTW2, but I guess I would need some mod for this game (SS 6.4).
If you guys would think it ok for me to join, I would be happy to take any faction that is left over. I have never done a hotseat game and as this is my first, I dont mind if I get elmiminated early on - just to get an idea of what it is like and have a littel fun with it.

[phonicsmonkey]

Hey Rex, please post your faction preferences in order. Give me your ideal factions, don't worry about what has already been picked except if all three are already taken give me a fourth and fifth.

Hi Nigel, welcome to the game! Yes you'll need to download and install Stainless Steel 6.4 from this thread (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=417435). You'll need to install 6.3 first, the links to both are there.

When you have it working, download the save game file from the first post of this thread and put it in your MedievalTotalWar2/mods/SS6.3/saves folder. you should then be able to access it in-game. All factions are open for you to look at in the save. You can pick from anyone except Mongols, Papal States and Teutonic Order.

Post your three preferences (or more if your first three appear to be taken) and I'll work it out from there.

[RexLegend]

My factions:
-England
-Denmark
-France
And in case: -Lithuania

[Myth]

England is taken by Zim and if not by him, then me. So Denmark it is, seeing as how Slysnake swapped for Venice.

BTW I'd rather we not loose Silver Shield. Any game he is in becomes that much more challenging. Seeing as how It's highly improbable I"ll be around for the big showdown in WOTK2 I'd really like to play in another game with him. I want to steer clear of the animosity though he is a player that gets very angry at betrayal (I remmeber his reaction to my propaganda in GA), a thing I can relate to by the way.

Despite his harsh tongue, he is a very good player in lead battle games and a rock-solid ally as far as I can tell, so losing such a player is a disadvantage IMO.

[RexLegend]

England is taken by Zim and if not by him, then me. So Denmark it is, seeing as how Slysnake swapped for Venice.

BTW I'd rather we not loose Silver Shield. Any game he is in becomes that much more challenging. Seeing as how It's highly improbable I"ll be around for the big showdown in WOTK2 I'd really like to play in another game with him. I want to steer clear of the animosity though he is a player that gets very angry at betrayal (I remmeber his reaction to my propaganda in GA), a thing I can relate to by the way.

Despite his harsh tongue, he is a very good player in lead battle games and a rock-solid ally as far as I can tell, so losing such a player is a disadvantage IMO.

Oh, very well, I'm happy enough with Denmark.
I don't know about SilverShield. It's up to him to decide. I can only guess reason(s) of his grudge. And I have feeling it's about DoW2 conflict...
To SilverShield: Dare to answer my PM to sort problem out? Please don't swear, I have some limits too.

[slysnake]

Oh, very well, I'm happy enough with Denmark.
I don't know about SilverShield. It's up to him to decide. I can only guess reason(s) of his grudge. And I have feeling it's about DoW2 conflict...
To SilverShield: Dare to answer my PM to sort problem out? Please don't swear, I have some limits too.

Can we just turn over a new leaf and have a fresh start with this new game, forgetting any previous grievances? :)

[SilverShield]

Ahem... I'm sorry to interrupt you.
Castile's last turn is very interesting... we all can agree. But some things remained to cripple my soul...

- How the hell he managed to take Iberian lands that France controlled?
I know... he had ballista nearby Toledo, but what about Murcia and Valencia? Super-edited program to increase movement range? Small cities are all useless when recruiting them and North-Africa check doesn't show nothing much. (Im checking 38th and 37th turn.)

- Rheims phenomeon... After he took Rheims, we checked and didn't find any sign about catas nor ballistas. i had spy inside, but i think it doesn't find foreign spy always out.

- Id really like to know some details about fooling entire legion in battle of Clermont. And with such minimal casualities!!?? Reminds me "auto_win attacker/defencer" console cheat, which is obiviously impossible.

+[Removed by request of phonics]+

Sorry if this is the wrong place for this sort of thing, but i just thought you should all know about the problem I have had, whether or not it is the right place.

Greetings,
RexLegend the Emperor of Dragon States of France.

and he d already removed the worst parts there. thats my beef with him. he was publicly pouring the worst :daisy: on me. the most nasty accusation. flat out made up out of nothing but his mind. he was publicly :daisy: on my honor and my integrity. thats my beef with him. u can give me another penalty or whatever. im not spending one second of my precious time on a game where this :daisy: is in who is just evoking feelings of hatred inside of me. im doing better than that. and thats about it

[slysnake]

Can you two just not accept that this is just a game and that we can move on and start a new one? DoW is in the past, what happened there probably wasn't that great for you. but even so, why bring things up from the past when we have a new game right here with a place for you ready to start? :)

[RexLegend]

and he d already removed the worst parts there. thats my beef with him. he was publicly pouring the worst :daisy: on me. the most nasty accusation. flat out made up out of nothing but his mind. he was publicly :daisy: on my honor and my integrity. thats my beef with him. u can give me another penalty or whatever. im not spending one second of my precious time on a game where this :daisy: is in who is just evoking feelings of hatred inside of me. im doing better than that. and thats about it

(So much about dealing problems via PM...)
You didn't really read my PM, didn't you? You might have serious issues taking accusations hard in games, have you thought about that? My guess: No.
Just expect accuses when term "exploit" comes on topic. ATPG attacking you as France wasn't nice at all, but this is no (beeep) good reason to exploit game and ruin other's game. This is Total War, right? Game isn't perfect, is not also reason for excuses. (If to come think about this, neither is my "first-time" no excuse. I should had seen it coming.)
Mostly, I'd take this post as compliment about my "mysterious ill mind".
[Snip] get over with this. Everyone of us makes very stupid and insulting mistakes, right?


EDIT: Sam is right about this. Although I doubt will Silver listen to it.

[Myth]

Silver you have serious anger issues dude. Every time someone steps on your toe you talk about cracking skulls. I'm not sure how often you get in fights IRL but it sounds to me that you find trouble instead of it finding you.

In any event, Rex you are not in the right. Mainly because in every hotseat played here on the .org the admin console is disabled, thus there really isn't any way for a player to cheat. They can use exploits but we all know them and know how to spot them by now. If an army gets wiped out in a fought battles game it's nobody's fault nor is something broken. It's how the game works.

[phonicsmonkey]

Ok, simmer down everyone.

Silvershield and RexLegend, you can expect pms from me.

Everyone else, thanks for your contributions but I will deal with this situation privately so please refrain from further comment unless it is absolutely necessary.

Also, I'd like to remind everyone that the rules of the Org (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?45416-The-Org-Rules-amp-FAQ) expressly prohibit foul language, personal attacks and publicly accusing other patrons of cheating in multiplayer.

[phonicsmonkey]

It's also probably worth pointing out that I intend to run this particular game under the same ruleset as WotK2 which means that battles will be fought and the following rule will be in place:

Please note that there are considered to be no exploits on the battle map. Any and all actions on the battle map are permissible.

If anyone doesn't like this and prefers to play an autoresolve game speak up and we'll work it out. Maybe if we have enough players we can start a separate AR-only game.

[Ignoramus]

What about the destroying of buildings in the settlements? I found that last game it made capturing cities quite worthless, as the enemy would just torch the place before you conquered it. In UotI, we've adopted a no destruction policy and it seems to have worked quite well.

What are everyone's thoughts?

[phonicsmonkey]

That's taken care of too in the WotK2 rules.

Here they are for everyone's reference:


Battles may be fought or auto-resolved at the players' discretion.

No reloading the save to create a different outcome.

Each player has 48 hours to complete his turn, post the save game to this thread and alert the next player in line by private message. If the deadline is missed the Admin may skip his faction or he can be subbed by an ally. Extensions will be granted on reasonable request.

Do not recruit General's Bodyguard units. These may only be created by adoption, marriage, natural birth or man of the hour.

Do not attack ships in ports.

Armies boarding ships in ports can't stay there for more than one turn.

Don't leave blockaded ports without beating the blockading ships first.

Do not exploit the naval movement bug (to avoid this always select your navy by clicking on the ship on the campaign map and not by selecting the unit cards.)

Don't stack merchants in armies or forts to get more than one to stand on the same resource (Merchant Fort)

No surrounding armies or agents to destroy them, either by occupying the tiles around the army or agent or by deliberately blocking all exit routes from the province in question. An escape route must always be left for a retreating army, except where that army has arrived by boat and has no contiguous friendly territory to escape into. (Surround & Destroy)

Don't use repeated offers for bribe to increase your faction leader's dread.

Enable "Unlimited men on battlefield" in order to not abuse when leading battles vs the AI.

Armies that are defeated in battle by a player that comes after them in the turn list may not move the following turn. This is to make it fair for people who are defeated by players that come before them in the turn list, and thus lose all their movement points

Armies that are defeated in battle may not be attacked on the following turn, as they are banned from moving, either by the game mechanics or by the rule above. They must be allowed to move first, or must be reinforced. If the defeated army retreats to a settlement or fort, this rule does not apply.

In order to assist with the observance of these rules, please post the list of defeated armies in the game thread when uploading the save for the next player.

Ballistas can't open anything, catapults can open wooden walls, trebuchets or better can open anything.

Assassins are allowed to target anyone except family members but players are limited to one assassination or sabotage attempt per turn. It must be the first action they do, before they spend money or do anything else. If a successful assassination or sabotage is questioned by a player the game admin will load the relevant save and attempt the assassination. If the results are different there will be penalties for cheating.

Spies may infiltrate cities to open the gates as well as perform other spying actions but players are limited to one attempt per turn. It must be the first action they do, before they spend money or do anything else, OR the second action if they are also attempting an assassination / sabotage in the same turn. If a successful spying attempt is questioned by a player the game admin will load the relevant save and attempt the action. If the results are different there will be penalties for cheating.

No crusades or jihads to be called or joined.

No buildings to be destroyed for cash under any circumstances.

No trading of provinces solely to receive free troops. If you trade provinces, make sure they have no garrison prior to the exchange.

No deliberate deals that would put you in debt above -10,000 florins

No making vassals of AI-controlled factions.

If there are any questions about the rules please ask the admin before playing the turn. In addition to the rules players are requested to abide by the spirit of the game and avoid exploiting the game mechanics on the campaign map to gain an unfair advantage. If a particular action is not specifically banned but is suspected to be an exploit please raise the issue in the thread before proceeding to play the turn. An extension will always be granted in this circumstance.

Please note that there are considered to be no exploits on the battle map. Any and all actions on the battle map are permissible.

[deguerra]

Just had a look at the save phonics (works like a charm on my SS which is good). AI Norway has done some wacky things. My capital is Groningen. My King is on crusade in the holy land (not actually as part of a game crusade, mind), and my largest army is sitting in England, with whom I am not at war. Most critically though, I am currently at -16k florins and losing 15k each turn.

None of this is a deal-breaker mind, but are we doing anything to 'alleviate' AI behaviour or just using the save "as-is"?

[phonicsmonkey]

I will most likely equalize the treasuries using the console, give everyone a positive balance of 30k or something, and also give a grace period of one turn (more?) for everyone to sort themselves out before we start the game proper.

[deguerra]

Cool. Did I mention I also have no navy :D. This is going to be a lot of fun.

[phonicsmonkey]

Cool. Did I mention I also have no navy :D. This is going to be a lot of fun.

You said you wanted a challenge! My advice is to get on the diplomatic blower as soon as possible to arrange safe passage. Also to ensure you get first pick of mercenary ships!

[deguerra]

Mercenaries cost money. My king got himself into this mess, he can get himself out. If that means walking back to Oslo, then so be it :)

edit: incidentally: People of Anatolia! We are proud to present to you: 'RENT-A-NORSE'. If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, if you can find him - RENT-A-NORSE! Comes fully equipped with combination Viking raider/Noble crusader army! Will work for food! All religions welcome, Christians given preference! Rent your own Norse warband today!

[Rougeman]

Mercenaries cost money. My king got himself into this mess, he can get himself out. If that means walking back to Oslo, then so be it :)

edit: incidentally: People of Anatolia! We are proud to present to you: 'RENT-A-NORSE'. If you have a problem, if no-one else can help, if you can find him - RENT-A-NORSE! Comes fully equipped with combination Viking raider/Noble crusader army! Will work for food! All religions welcome, Christians given preference! Rent your own Norse warband today!

Where do i order? :computer:

[Nigel]

[QUOTE=Nightbringer;2053382848]Kieven Rus and Lithuania are both open and have pretty good starting positions in this save. I hope you play and WELCOME TO THE THRONE ROOM!![QUOTE]

Thanks for the wellcome.

In that case I will take :
1. Lithunia
2. Kieven Rus
3. whatever is left.

:clown:

[Zim]

England would like to request that that Norse army leaves. ~;p

[phonicsmonkey]

Ok, here are the faction picks so far.

I'm have assumed Silver is out.

Iggy, could you please post your pick? Khwarezm is now available if you want it. I'm going to stick with Egypt.

If I don't hear from you shortly I'll start the game and you can join in on turn two or something.

NB: Moors
Zim: England
Ezil: ERE
Slysnake: Venice
deguerra: Norway
Monkey: Egypt
Rouge: Cumans
Loose: France
Myth – Sicily
RexLegend - Denmark
Nigel - Lithuania
Igno: ?

[phonicsmonkey]

ok guys, I started the game in this thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?138477-The-March-of-Time-A-Stainless-Steel-6.4-hotseat&p=2053384959#post2053384959), so please mosey on over there, familiarise yourselves with the rules (especially concerning the grace period) and get playing!

Also, does anyone who likes photoshopping want to volunteer to create an image for the game thread? If so, send me a pm.