View Full Version : Proto-Germanic Sources
Magister Militum Titus Pullo
10-03-2011, 00:07
I'm looking for some thorough sources on Google on the ancient Germanic language. The available
dictionaries for the language I've found do possess the word for army, "Harjaz", but I haven't been able to locate"Harjanaz". Furthermore, "Druhtinaz" in Wikipedia is described as being a warlord, with a later Norse derivative being "Drottin", but no mention of it being a kingship title.
Well I may not be an expert but afaik there was no need for a word for "king" as, due to low population density, in times of peace there was no need for a king, only in times of War the tribes elected a warlord to lead their armies. A practice that slowly evolved into permanent kingship later on.
Yes, germanic kingship comes much later on...
Take for example Arminius, despite his great success, soon as he tried to sieze more power, he lost all support...
Also the first kings appeared very close to the roman empire, or within it; for the Norsemen, it was with christian ideologies that monarchy came to be...
Imagine introducing JHWH as "warlord of warlords"^^
(no offence meant)
Imagine introducing JHWH as "warlord of warlords"^^
Well, if I recall correctly a 9th century Saxon "localization" of the New Testament presented Jesus and his disciples as a Germanic leader and his sworn band.
Of course, it was merely translating the story into something the Germans were familiar with. Travelling religious teachers would have struck the Saxons as very strange, but a warrior on a religious mission they would understand. (For the record, the story is quite faithful to the NT: there is some fighting, but the emphasis is on the spiritual struggle.)
TheLastDays
10-04-2011, 18:29
Well, if I recall correctly a 9th century Saxon "localization" of the New Testament presented Jesus and his disciples as a Germanic leader and his sworn band.
Of course, it was merely translating the story into something the Germans were familiar with. Travelling religious teachers would have struck the Saxons as very strange, but a warrior on a religious mission they would understand. (For the record, the story is quite faithful to the NT: there is some fighting, but the emphasis is on the spiritual struggle.)
Do you know of any way to get this material? I would love to read this.
Do you know of any way to get this material? I would love to read this.
The (modern) name of the text is "The Heliand". The Wikipedia article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heliand) gives multiple links to the original text, and mentions one English translation. There are also German and Dutch translation, though I am not sure if these are on the internet. Let us know if you find something.
gamegeek2
10-11-2011, 03:32
I'm looking for some thorough sources on Google on the ancient Germanic language. The available
dictionaries for the language I've found do possess the word for army, "Harjaz", but I haven't been able to locate"Harjanaz". Furthermore, "Druhtinaz" in Wikipedia is described as being a warlord, with a later Norse derivative being "Drottin", but no mention of it being a kingship title.
It's a minor misconception that the tongue EB uses for the Swebozez is Proto-Germanic. EB uses an earlier version of Proto-Germanic, something similar that can be called "Pre-Germanic" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_Parent_Language)
The short of it is that Proto-Germanic is unsuitable for the EB time frame as it is only complete in the form it's only really appropriate after 50 AD, when all the characteristics of the Proto-Germanic reconstructed language have appeared, at least according to certain chronologies. EB: Novus Ordo Mundi will use Proto-Germanic in its unit names, but EB doesn't.
ziegenpeter
10-11-2011, 13:21
Hmm interesting. I wonder why the decision was made to use GPL, since, from what I heard, the transition from GPL to Proto-Germanic was made in the second half of the last milennia BC, so right in our timeframe. And while you could argue that what the Sweboz spoke in 272bc was maybe still more GPL-ish (I employ the overused "-ish" suffix to show that those change in languages were processes with probably no threshold to tell you "now it has gone from GPL to ProtoG), the units and most of the backround information about the sweboz are -afaik - taken from later sources and somewhat speculative for 272bc und thus you could also use Proto-germanic for EB. I'm sorry if this post is a bit confused/confusing I am tired.
(I employ the overused "-ish" suffix to show that those change in languages were processes with probably no threshold to tell you "now it has gone from GPL to ProtoG)
Very important point to note!
...speculative for 272bc und thus you could also use Proto-germanic for EB.
^_^
ziegenpeter
10-12-2011, 16:45
^_^
I vish I kould hide ze german Herkunft better ;)
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