[EB]3v3 or 4v4 Historical Battle Idea

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Ok, so LazyO had originally brought this idea to my attention through his participation in a late Roman era mod battle of the same concept. Anyway, the general idea would be for two 3 player teams composed of armies that are roughly similar to those used in the historical battle. Obviously, some differences would occur and such but the general idea is to find enough players, select a date in the near future at a time when all can participate, and then hold the battle.

Here is a rough draft of the rules I would impose though I hope to hear back from those interested on possible changes:
-Each team would have a "captain" who would act as the general present at the battle. This member is the only one capable of ordering the entire team through team chat. The others have to remain silent and "follow orders" although they would certainly not have to and could act on their own even disregarding their own general if they see fit! If the general dies during battle, the captain could no longer give orders and all will have to work independently of one another with not team chat coordination
-The divisions of players armies would vary depending on the battle chosen. Some might command the majority of the cavalry, others perhaps a wing. Each army would not be made equal as well, so selecting which army component each teammate would get would be of utmost importance.
-The battles would not necessarily be 100% balanced but no Thermopylae style battles for example. Each side would certainly have a good chance at victory. Some liberties may be taken in terms of troop numbers present to ensure this is the case.
-While terrain often played major roles in these battles, it is important to note that most EB maps are not well suited for even battles and that usage of typical maps such as Grassy Flatland or Pripyet Marshes may be unavoidable in order to ensure no clear advantages or disadvantages.

Some of the historical battles I feel would work well are as such: (mind you I am pulling these out of my behind at 2:15 at night so if I am somewhere off in left field let me know)
-Magnesia
-Cynoscalphae
-Raphia
-Arausio
-Carrhae
-Asculum
-Beneventum
-Zama
-Cannae
-Panion
-Bibracte
-Vosges
-Tigranocerta
-Chaeornea

If any of these ideas sound good or you have some others, post here please. I'd love for this to happen sometime soon within the next week or two.:2thumbsup:

[TheShakAttack]

Sounds great. Would have to be fairly balanced armies though... Me wanna be Hannibal at Zama and kill Scipio.

[Lazy O]

Too easy.

I suggest Magnesia.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Magnesia was actually my first choice as well. You can see I put it first in my list :p

[Lazy O]

Arent you an early riser. Mind coming on hamachi? we can discuss it in depth.

[TheShakAttack]

Really? I thought Magnesia is quite unbalanced as per Livy and Appian.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I don't see how it so unbalanced. Antiochus had a substantially larger force but it was poorly trained and organized in comparison to the experienced Roman force. Obviously we would play around with the estimates of soldiers present but I don't think it would be unbalanced. Poor organization can be handled numerous ways as in giving commanders a variety of units that do not necessarily constitute a proper army and forcing them to integrate in many places at once.

Oh and Lazy, I'm only up so early to study so sorry to disappoint lol

[Arjos]

I'm interested, but are we going to reenact them or simply taking over the army compositions?

[TheShakAttack]

Sounds good. Not knocking the idea (which I love); just considering possible options.

[TheShakAttack]

Sounds good. Not knocking the idea (which I love); just considering possible options.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

An odd double post by Shak, 2 hours apart lol.


I'm interested, but are we going to reenact them or simply taking over the army compositions?

I think just take over army compositions. There are too many factors involved in attempting a reenactment and a proper one would involve us already knowing who wins and who loses. I don't think there would be that much fun in that. It a chance to create an alternative history.

[TheShakAttack]

Haha, sorry about double post. No idea how that happened. Think I might have refreshed browser or something. Anyways, re-enactment would be dull... we should re play!

[Yavana]

Great idea! Even I will try to find time for that! I vote for battle of Cynoscephalae. Maybe not quite balanced according to Plutarch but very interesting historically.

[antisocialmunky]

I tried to put something like this together but the army lists are the hard part to come up with.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

It will require some imagination I'll admit, but a general consensus on army type, at the very least, is reachable.

[TheShakAttack]

Well, the research is kind of done already. The Historical Battles Pack contains a lot of them; all we have to do is maybe tweak it to general consensus! :)

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I somehow don't possess the historical battle pack...
I'll have to dl it and check it out though I do have a book on the great battles of the Hellenistic world which goes into some detail about army compositions.

[TheShakAttack]

Cool. It's pretty interesting (the pack). The Battle of Cannae is awesome.

[Arjos]

We should increase the numbers of units etc, to make it you know "more epic" :D

[TheShakAttack]

Lol! good luck 3v3ing that!

Don't get me wrong, its a great idea. Im just not sure everyone's comp can take it tho

[gamegeek2]

The problem with Cannae is...well, the Roman commander was just not that smart.

[Lazy O]

No problem we can just reduce unit numbers for the carthaginians and put vega and gaius incharge of the romans :P

[TheShakAttack]

hahahaha. I wasn't proposing Cannae, was just saying the battle in the historical battles pack is great.

[vartan]

Great idea. I propose more specifically 3v3 on huge and on an EB map, not a vanilla one. Latest EDU (or 3.0 final when it's released). Players will take left centre and right respectively. These will be anywhere from 45 to 60 units on each side altogether. Ask gg2 and he can describe what historical battles are like on 3v3 in NTW3.

[Vega]

Some EB maps on the bottom are causing crash to me when i wanna to choose them :inquisitive:

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Some EB maps on the bottom are causing crash to me when i wanna to choose them :inquisitive:

What are their names?

[vartan]

What are their names?
Oh yeah. I need maps!

[Vega]

Oh yeah. I need maps!

this is that famous map it crashes everytime i will edit post if i find more this one is on the bottom "EB marmarike kliffs"

[Yavana]

Dibs capitain position and command over cavalery MUAHAHAHA! Doesnt matter which army!

[Lazy O]

If you ask me it should be a main army led by a captain, and two other armies of 10 units preferably auxillaries and mostly light armed.

[Burebista]

I'm interested.

Any battle with more than greeks it's fine for me. I mean , i specialize in butcher's work and skirmishing so give me the galatai/thraikioi/east keltoi contingents any day.

[Lazy O]

@Robin, Mind setting up a poll on which battle to play so I can get started on making the scenario?

[TheShakAttack]

Yeah! Let's get the basics sketched out so we can proceed with this fairly quickly.

With regard to the issue of General’s and teams:

I think it would be a good idea for those interested to post that they are interested and also indicating which faction they would prefer once the battle is chosen. Any imbalances can be corrected by an appointed neutral person ensuring that both teams have more or less equal amount of experience.

Regarding the battle, an agreement will have to be reached on army composition.

Once teams are made, I think a democratic process of choosing the leader would be best: each team member votes for 1 person (apart from themselves) to be the general. The appointed neutral person tallies the votes and announces the generals.

Of course, if a player does not want to be the general, they can indicate so.

After this has been decided, I think the best way to go about it is to allow the team flexibility in deciding who gets what command, with the general getting the final say: ie splitting it into wings and center, or deciding 1 player will play cav, skirmishers, etc.

So lets decide on which battle quickly! Say within next 24 hours please! Since Lazy and Robin brought this up, for the first one, why don’t we let them choose? (also for the sake of getting things moving quickly)



To make this thing more epic, it would be very interesting to play the battle from general’s camera only: though that might be incredibly restrictive.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

To make this thing more epic, it would be very interesting to play the battle from general’s camera only: though that might be incredibly restrictive.

Actually I think this is a phenomenal idea and would help make the smaller armies more manageable than the larger ones, as was often the case in these battles. Only thing is, there is no way to police this that I am aware of. We would just have to take each other at their words.

[TheShakAttack]

Actually, I think this is might be possible. The person who hosts can usually set the camera and it becomes mandatory on all who join. I will test when I get home.

[Lazy O]

There is a restrict camera option.

[Lazy O]

I propose that we be allowed to see who has voted for what.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Yes but restrict camera does little to make more difficult the various aspects of commanding a large army quite like the general's camera does.

[Yavana]

Yeah! Let's get the basics sketched out so we can proceed with this fairly quickly.

With regard to the issue of General’s and teams:

I think it would be a good idea for those interested to post that they are interested and also indicating which faction they would prefer once the battle is chosen. Any imbalances can be corrected by an appointed neutral person ensuring that both teams have more or less equal amount of experience.

Regarding the battle, an agreement will have to be reached on army composition.

Once teams are made, I think a democratic process of choosing the leader would be best: each team member votes for 1 person (apart from themselves) to be the general. The appointed neutral person tallies the votes and announces the generals.

Of course, if a player does not want to be the general, they can indicate so.

After this has been decided, I think the best way to go about it is to allow the team flexibility in deciding who gets what command, with the general getting the final say: ie splitting it into wings and center, or deciding 1 player will play cav, skirmishers, etc.

So lets decide on which battle quickly! Say within next 24 hours please! Since Lazy and Robin brought this up, for the first one, why don’t we let them choose? (also for the sake of getting things moving quickly)



To make this thing more epic, it would be very interesting to play the battle from general’s camera only: though that might be incredibly restrictive.
HAHAHA Forget it! You say so only becuz u didnt had dibs and u wish u had! I had dibs! I general!!!!!;] :D
Im all for restricting camera in every game tho!

[TheShakAttack]

Lol. I don't think "dibs" is going to be a very popular system Yav. Though it woulda been funny if that's how it worked historically.

I also wanted to add.... there should a rule against camping (unless that is what happened during battle historically). By that I mean doing nothing and just hanging back. Tactical reserves, missile duel etc are obv not included in this.

[Lazy O]

I think we should just wait until the weekend when everyone is on and we decide it on hamachi chat.

[TheShakAttack]

I kind of agree with you. We can decide teams, finalise rules on Sat and play on Sun. However, if we wait for the weekend to plan a rough outline, it won’t be until next-to-next weekend we can get a game going (since the weekend is the only time that we get a lot of people online). I’m quite keen to get as much planned and ready (certainly the battle) as possible so we can actually get a game this weekend. We can always update rules etc and make next-to-next weekend’s one even better.

[Lazy O]

The forum would be even slower.

[TheShakAttack]

But at least we can hammer out details over the next 4 days. I agree there will not be an opportunity for a quick and efficient meeting like on Hamachi, but rather than wait until the weekend, lets get as much organised as possible so that the final details are decided on Sat and we can play on Sun.

[Lazy O]

The weekend is 2 days away Shak :P .

[Vega]

Force people to make account and vote we have 6 votes from 20 possibly :D Also this idea is so nice, cant wait to start with this

[TheShakAttack]

Lazy Lazy Lazy.....

It's Tuesday morning. So we have: Tuesday, Wed, Thurs, Fri.

That's approx 4 days. Where do you get 2 days from?!

[Lazy O]

If we count wed and thurs and dont count today its 2 days of waiting ;)

[The Celtic Viking]

"If we only count half of the days remaining, then we have, in fact, reduced the time to wait by half!"

Yeah, for some reason I think there's a flaw in your logic somewhere. :rolleyes:

[TheShakAttack]

Lol. Also, Lazy, you forget, Friday is the beg of the weekend for you, but for everyone else (apart from storm) weekend doesn't start until Saturday.

[Arjos]

About the chain of command, we should keep the historical divisions of troops (for example Magnesia Antiochos the right, Seleucos and Antipatros the left etc...), that gives already who gets which units...
And whoever is playing the general chooses the battle plan, the rest is to follow orders :)

[Arjos]

Seems we are going for Magnesia, here are the compositions according to Livy:

Battle of Magnesia (190 BC)
Map: EB River Jordan

Arche Seleukeia roughly 50.000

Antiochos III Megas (right)

Antiochos' guard (general unit) - 1 Somatophylakes Strategou (1 chevron)
1.500 Gallograeci - 2 Galatikoi Kuarothoroi
3.000 cataphracti - 3 Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi
1.000 agema - 1 Hetairoi (1 chevron)
16 elephants - 1 Elephantes Indikoi
??? argyraspides - 1 Argyraspides (1 chevron)
1.200 Dahae horse archers - 1 Daha Baexdzhyntae
1.500 cretan archers - 2 Toxotai Kretikoi
1.500 Tralles archers - 2 Toxotai
2.500 mysian archers, cyrtian slingers and elymaean archers - 1 Thanvarê Payâhdag, 1 Shûbân-î Fradâkhshânâ and 1 Thanvarê Pârsig
2.000 caetrati Pisidians, Pamphylians and Lydians - 2 Akontistai

Zeuxis (center)

16.000 native phalangitai in 10 taxeis (general unit) - 4 Klerouchoi Phalangitai and 9 Pantodapoi Phalangitai
22 elephants, 2 between each taxeis - 1 Elephantes Indikoi
??? cyrtian slingers and elymaean archers - 1 Shûbân-î Fradâkhshânâ and 1 Thanvarê Pârsig
2.700 miscellaneous force - 1 Thanvarê Payâhdag and 1 Shûbân-î Fradâkhshânâ
2.000 caetrati Pisidians, Pamphylians and Lydians - 2 Gund-î Paltâ

Seleukos IV Philopator (left)

1.500 Gallograeci - 2 Galatikoi Kuarothoroi
2.000 Cappadocians - 2 Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai
3.000 cataphracti - 3 Hellenikoi Kataphraktoi
1.000 agema (general unit) - 1 Hetairoi (1 chevron)
??? scythed chariots - 1 Harmata Drepanephora
??? arabian dromedary archers - 1 Shivatîr-î Pahlavânîg
??? Tarentines - 1 Hetairoi Aspidophoroi
2.500 Gallograeci cavalry - 3 Curepos
1.000 cretan archers - 1 Toxotai Kretikoi
1.500 Carians and Cilicians - 2 Uazali
1.500 Tralles - 2 Anatolikoi Phyletai
16 elephants - 1 Elephantes Indikoi

SPQR roughly 50.000


Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus (center left)

Scipio's guard (general unit) - 1 Eqvites Consvlares
1.200 roman cavalry - 2 polybian Eqvites Romani
2 Velites
2 Akontistai
2 polybian Hastati
2 polybian Principes (1 chevron)
1 polybian Triarii (2 chevrons)
2 Hastati Samnitici
2 Pezoi Brettioi (1 chevron)
1 Toxotai

Lucius Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus (center right)

Scipio's guard (general unit) - 1 Eqvites Consvlares
16 elephants - 1 Pilei Ya'ar Libim
2 Velites
2 Akontistai
2 polybian Hastati
2 polybian Principes (1 chevron)
1 polybian Triarii (2 chevrons)
2 Hastati Samnitici
2 Pezoi Brettioi (1 chevron)
1 Accensi

Eumenes II - Makedonia (right)

3.000 pergamese and achaean caetrati - 3 Peltastai
800 agema (general unit) - 1 Hetairoi (2 chevrons)
2.200 roman cavalry - 2 Lonchophoroi Hippeis (1 chevron)
500 Tralles - 1 Sphendonetai
500 cretan archers - 1 Toxotai Kretikoi
2.000 Makedones and Thraikioi guarding camp - 1 Thureophoroi (1 chevron) and 1 Thraikioi Peltastai (1 chevron)

Imo there were more Romani, maybe Africanus had 4 legions and Asiaticus 4 aswell...

PS: a river on Romani's left is needed or play next to map's end :D

[|Sith|DarthRoach]

Nice. If we're allowed to pick I want to be Antiochus!

[Lazy O]

Give me the Ptelmic composition so I can get started.

[TheShakAttack]

Give me the Ptelmic composition so I can get started.

Uh, where do they come in?

[Lazy O]

I thought we was doing Raphia. Ok, Roman army, nao.

[TheShakAttack]

I thought we was doing Raphia. Ok, Roman army, nao.

Yeah. Arjos has very helpfully listed the army compositions and corresponding EB units above.

[Lazy O]

SPQR had less men then the Arche? BS I dont buy that.

[TheShakAttack]

SPQR had less men then the Arche? BS I dont buy that.

Lol. Whether you believe it or not, that is what is recorded :P

I gotta say though, it's hard to see SPQR pulling this off in EB if armies are kept proportionate. Even with the stupid chariot moves made by AS during the battle.

[The Celtic Viking]

I told ya we should've chosen Raphia, but did you guys listen? Nooooooooo, you wanted Magnesia! You wanted Romans! Well, you voted for this, but now that you have it, Raphia suddenly start looking more and more attractive. Hm? I could say "you should be careful what you wish for", but I prefer to say "I told you so".

:clown:

[Arjos]

I find it hard to believe that a Roman like Africanus, was taking part merely as a legatus, doesn't make sense, so I'll give him 4 legions too, making it all the standard double consular composition, adding 20.000 men and making the battle even...

[Lazy O]

I want romans so I can bash some romans.

That is all.

[Vega]

im GONNA be ScipiO! And im going to do my best,, :P, also dont compare Marian-imperial rome with polybians they are more different i wanted to play vs macedons but Magnesia is nice as well :D

[TheShakAttack]

That is certainly one approach (doubling the size of the recorded army and refusing to accept it), lol. The other would be to give significant experience bumps to the romans. Am I incorrect in thinking that they were a lot more experienced that Anti's AS army?

[Arjos]

The thing is that for Livy, Antiochos lost like 50k men, 3k cavalry, 1.5k captured with some escaping...
Read even that Seleukidai were 70k in total, but you can add the numbers and is close to 50k...
I think there's ground to believe he took away 20k from the Romani and put it to the other side...

As for the experience, it could be that there were some veterans from Hispania and Africa...
But what happened was the chariots disrupted the flank routing, Eumenes exploited that routing the left, while Antiochos mad rushed toward the camp, just to be halted and beaten there, with the center giving up while peppered by pila and not being able to form the phalanx...

[TheShakAttack]

The thing is that for Livy, Antiochos lost like 50k men, 3k cavalry, 1.5k captured with some escaping...
Read even that Seleukidai were 70k in total, but you can add the numbers and is close to 50k...
I think there's ground to believe he took away 20k from the Romani and put it to the other side...

As for the experience, it could be that there were some veterans from Hispania and Africa...
But what happened was the chariots disrupted the flank routing, Eumenes exploited that routing the left, while Antiochos mad rushed toward the camp, just to be halted and beaten there, with the center giving up while peppered by pila and not being able to form the phalanx...

I wasn't really asking about what happened- rather, were the roman troops sig more experienced than AS in Magnesia? If so, we could use this to try and balance things out in our battle...

[Arjos]

I wrote that, because that's what we know and pretty much is what we have to extrapolate if someone was a veteran given his performace :P
Seeing how casualties are very inflated, I'd say that most likely the people who got killed were the kataphraktoi (Livy says how the weight slowed them down), all AS light troops routed just at the sight of the chariots (they were the less experienced in the battle), and the 4 cavalry squadrons plus the camp guards managed to repel Antiochos...

From that the experienced soldiers on the roman side were: Eumenes', Cn. Domitius' cavalry, the Makedones and the Thraikioi...

[TheShakAttack]

From that the experienced soldiers on the roman side were: Eumenes', Cn. Domitius' cavalry, the Makedones and the Thraikioi...

Compared to most of the AS troops, right?

I mean: is it accurate giving the roman troops an exp bonus and not giving one to AS thereby stating that the Roman troops you mention above were more experienced?

[Arjos]

Yes, Antiochos' army was fairly fresh recruited, except for the Medians and Syrians hetairoi, who most likely took part in his eastern expedition...
The Makedones and Thraikioi actually volunteered, so yes killing was their thing :D
Eumenes seemed like a pretty sharp tactician with decent men at his command...
Domitius was actually routed, by getting wheeled from the river, but the camp's tribune regrouped them, so maybe Aemilius gets the credit, even though was Eumenes with only 200 that saved the camp...

As for the roman infantry, the triarii might have fought against Hannibal, but nothing special...
There must have been 8 legions instead of 4, that would explain also why the 16.000 phalangitai played for time...

[Lazy O]

You guys are trusting anceint sources for numbers ? REALLY?

[TheShakAttack]

It is a histotical battle. i'm happy for the numbers to be adapted though. just exploring diff approaches: more balanced nos vs same numbers but more exp for romans.

[Arjos]

There were two consular armies, and that makes sense, just look at the roman cavalry: 3.400 for 4 legions?!

[Kival]

You guys are trusting anceint sources for numbers ? REALLY?
Do you have better sources?

[Lazy O]

A brain?

[The Celtic Viking]

A brain?

Unless you're saying that we (or is that you personally?) should just make shit up and pretend as if that's historical - or even serious - then you're going to have to be a little less vague, and a lot more precise.

[vartan]

Do you have better sources?
Guys, I have to say, you would do very well to adjust ancient reports on army sizes for propoganda. If that means evening ridiculous differentials, then please, by all means do so. There is no need to fall into the laps of the ancients, especially those commissioned by rulers to write a past that makes their state appear most superior and their rule the most legitimate...

P.S. Nothing 'historical' was produced until the last couple centuries. What we think of as history is non-existent in the ancient world.

[Lazy O]

Thank you vartan.

[The Celtic Viking]

Don't worry, Vartan, no one here (that I can see, anyway) is advocating that we should have complete faith in their words. ~:)

[Arjos]

Not that, but still omitted legions sounds more reasonable than all Romani being veterans even as hastati and velites, when recruited the very same year XD

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I'm working on unit lists right now. The armies are going to be somewhat similar in size with a small advantage to the AS. AS will have far superior cavalry but I will try to cause some coordination problems in a couple of different ways. We also have to edit the export_units to give romans elephants and such so I will post an edited one for historical battle play sometime before the weekend.

Oh, and I'm planning on using Makedonia to represent Pergamon. Thoughts?

[Arjos]

I've already posted a list with EB units in page 2...

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I've already posted a list with EB units in page 2...

Yes, but you didn't actually convert it into in game units with unit sizes considered and such.:clown:

Ok, this was a bit tricky and I'm sure there will be some varying opinions on this which I would love to hear such as "Robin, you are an idiot." Anyway, this is just a basic outline that I put together in 20 minutes in custom army construction

Map: Unknown though it there are any ideas on how we can possibly implement a river and flat map together I'm all ears.
Weather conditions: I read that there may have been a drizzle during the battle which impeded the compound bows of Antiochus' skirmishers. I'm all for this to help balance a bit.
AS armies
Center:
4 Klerouchoi Phalangitai (1 with captain)
9 Pantadapoi Phalangitai
1 Thanvare Payadag
1 Thanvare Parsig
1 Toxotai
1 Gund-i-Palta
1 Toxotai Kretikoi
1 Shuban-i-Fradakhshana
1 Elephantes Indikoi

Right:
1 Somatophylakes Strategou w/ 1 chevron (Antiochus and captain)
1 Hetairoi w/ 1 chevron
3 Hellenikoi Kataphractoi
1 Argyraspides w/ 1 chevron (I'm torn between these or Hypaspistai because the use with cavalry would seem to indicate the latter and Hellenic elites were often confused by historians)
1 Dahae Riders
1 Galatikoi Kuarothoroi
1 Thanvare Payadag
1 Gund-i-Palta
1 Elephantes Indikoi

Left:
1 Hetairoi w/ 1 chevron (captain)
3 Hellenikoi Kataphractoi
1 Galatikoi Kuarothoroi
2 Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai (these are the cappadocians supposedly armed in galatian style)
1 Misthophoroi Uazali
1 Anatolikoi Phyletai
1 Hetairoi Aspidophoroi
2 Cuerpos (galatian cav is mentioned and I think the heavy cav would be overkill here but again, your suggestions are requested)
1 Shivatir-i-Pahlavanig (representing absent camel archers)
1 Harmata Drepanophora
1 Elephantes Indikoi
1 Thanvare Payadag
1 Akontistai

Roman army
Center:
1 Equites Consulares (captain and Lucius Scipio)
2 Hastai
2 Principes w/ 1 chevron
1 Triarii w/ 2 chevrons
2 Hastati Samnitici
2 Pezoi Brutii w/1 chevron
1 Triarii w/2 chevrons (ok with either Triarii or even Pedites here)
2 Velites
2 Akontistai
1 Toxotai
1 Equites Romani
1 African Forest Elephant unit (needs to be added to Roman roster)

Left:
Same army except substitute Equites Romani for Equites Consulares and remove the final Equites Romani unit so there is only 1
No elephants
Replace Toxotai with Accensi for flavor

Right: (Makedonia)
1 Hetairoi w/ 2 chevrons (captain)
2 Lonchophoi Hippeis w/ 1 chevron (substituting for Roman cavalry on that wing, plus gives a better chance against cataphracts)
4 Peltastai
1 Toxtotai
1 Spendonetai
1 Toxotai Kretikoi
1 Taxeis Triballoi w/ 1 chevron
1 Thrakioi Peltastai w/ 1 chevron
1 Thureophoi w/ 1 chevron (these three units represent the Makedonian/Thracian mercs who guarded the camp but in this battle may actually be needed)

I plan on editing a few things in the edu as well.
1. African elephants must be given back to Romans
2. Fear effect removed from cataphracts. Fear from properly used elephants and chariots is enough, but from cataphracts as well? Too much
3. Toying with giving Principes and Bruitians 100 men to match Hastati.

As always, give me your thoughts and recommendations. The numbers in these armies favor the AS by about 300 men which is perfect imo. The mnai spent is substantially favoring the AS however, about 10k per army section (or the price of an elephant unit:laugh4:). I can rectify this by giving Romans more men but this would disrupt numbers balance, or further chevroning them up which doesn't seem right to me either. Is there any other way you guys can see to balance this a bit more let me know. It definitely will be a challenge, though not impossible for the Romans. After all, the AS severely lacks mobile infantry and the two wings will have trouble bringing cavalry to bear successfully if they can't coordinate with the main phalanx line.

[Arjos]

Didn't know if we were going HUGE or LARGE :P

I agree with no fear for cataphracts (and I'd say even for the MP EDU)...
Isn't Kataphraktoi Indikoi a bit too much though?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Didn't know if we were going HUGE or LARGE :P

I agree with no fear for cataphracts (and I'd say even for the MP EDU)...
Isn't Kataphraktoi Indikoi a bit too much though?

For armored elephants perhaps. I just think they look cool :p
I think large would have to do. We don't want Rome total lag.

[TheShakAttack]

"Robin you are an idiot".

[Arjos]

Oh another, instead of argyraspidai, let's use the Agema Thorakitai ^^

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

"Robin you are an idiot".

Thank you for your insightful, and as always, constructive criticism Shak.

I'm not sure if TAB's had been introduced into the Seleucid army yet at this point so I'd tend to shy away from them. I'd think Argyraspides would denote either the pike contingent or a Hypaspist type unit intended to work much as Alexander's had.

[Arjos]

I thought they were developed after his eastern campaign pretty much like the Kataphraktoi, after all post Magnesia it's all downfall :(


BTW, if you allow me to brag, my indian kataphract elephants just had 956 kills. Beat that! :laugh4:

And with this, I hope we don't favour AS further, so unarmoured elephants please :P

[TheShakAttack]

Robin, Lazy, this was a great idea. Just wanted to let you know we had our first battle. Looks like history indeed repeats itself :)

Replay here: http://www.mediafire.com/?xaj14m3wz3s2son

Teams:

Rome- Arjos, Vega, and me

AS- Aga, TCV, and Yavana

[Arjos]

Magnesia was fun, so here's Raphia according to Polybios:

Battle of Raphia (217 BC)
Map: EB The Qattara

Ptolemaioi (roughly 75.000)

Ptolemaios IV Philopator (left)

Ptolemy's guard (general unit) - 1x Somatophylakes Strategou
40 african elephants - 2x Elephantes Hulaioi Liboukoi
700 cavalry of the guard - 1x Agema Klerouchon Hippeon (2 chevrons)
2.300 lybian and egyptian horses - 2x Machimoi Hippeis
3.000 royal agema - 3x Basilikon Agema
3.000 Lybians armed in the macedonian fashion - 3x Thureophoroi
3.000 Cretans - 3x Kretikoi Toxotai (1 chevron)
5.000 phalanx body - 5x Klerouchoi Phalangitai

Andromachos (center left)

20.000 phalanx body (general unit) - 15x Klerouchoi Phalangitai and 5x Pezhetairoi

Sosibios (center right)

20.000 egyptian phalanx (general unit) - 20x Machimoi Phalangitai

Echecrates (right)

2.000 greek mercenary cavalry (general unit) - 2x Lonchophoroi Hippeis (1 chevron)
8.000 greek mercenaries - 8x Hoplitai
4.000 Galatian settlers - 4x Galatikoi Klerouchoi
2.000 Thracians - 2x Thraikioi Peltastai (1 chevron)
2.000 peltasts - 2x Peltastai
33 african elephants - 2x Elephantes Hulaioi Liboukoi

Arche Seleukeia (roughly 68.000)

Antiochos III Megas (right)

4.000 royal cavalry (general unit) - 1x Somatophylakes Strategou and 4x Hetairoi
60 indian elephants - 3x Elephantes Indikoi
1.500 Cretans - 2x Kretikoi Toxotai
5.000 light-armed Dahae, Carmanians and Cilicians in the macedonian fashion - 5x Thureophoroi
5.000 greek mercenaries - 5x Hoplitai

Nicarchos (center right)

20.000 phalanx body - 15x Pantodapoi Phalangitai and 5x Klerouchoi Phalangitai

Theodotos (center left)

10.000 silver shields - 10x Argyraspides
10.000 Arabs - 5x Bnei Shevet 'Arabim (1 chevron) and 5x Erínamesh ana-Arabim (2 chevrons)

Themison (left)

2.000 cavalry (general unit) - 2x Asabârân-î Mâdâën
42 indian elephants - 2x Elephantes Indikoi
500 lydian javelineers - 1x Akontistai
1.000 Cardaces - 1x Shipri Tukul
5.000 Medes, Cissians, Cadusians and Carmanians - 2x Kôfyârên-î Verkhânâ, 3x Tabargânê Êrânshahr
1.000 agrianian slingers - 1x Sphendonetai
1.000 persian bowmen - 1x Thanvarê Pârsig
2.000 Thracians - 2x Thraikioi Peltastai

This battle is a MASSIVE infantry clash, we are going to need 4v4, so people come hither!

PS: I gave chevrons to the units said to have received specific training prior to the campaign, if anyone spots the need for more to balance the battle, do tell :)

[Yavana]

I dibs Antiochus!

[TheShakAttack]

My troops have hailed me Imperator on the field of battle yesterday. Superbly supported by our Pergamon Allies, Rome was victorious. I am writing from Campus Martius to you, Senate of EBO, to ask for a Triumph.

[Lazy O]

Just because I was not around.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Did Ptolemais ride to the battle on an elephant? I don't recall that being mentioned. I would tend to include him in the 700 cavalry of the guard, and maybe make those Somaphylakes Strategou. Same with the AS, add in a Soma unit for Antiochus and subtract a Hetairoi. Or just keep it 4 and add the Soma for the AS and use either a unit of Hetairoi or Agema cav for the Ptolies along with a Soma. The eagle helps represent the main general as opposed to captains and also their closest knit bodyguards. Also, you are missing a unit of Agema infantry for the Ptollies. Balance looks reasonable, moreso than Magnesia, and look what happened with that! Upset special.

As far as that battle went...Wow! Great job by the Romans/Pergamese commanders. Its funny because history sort of repeated itself. A brazen advance by the Pergamese general made that side of the Seleucid line give way and exposed the rear of the phalanx which led to confusion and eventually no flank support. And on the right side, the Seleucids were too slow in exploiting any advantage they had in order to save the main line. As I'd hoped, it appears that it was difficult for the two wings to coordinate with the phalangites against a mobile foe. Awesome battle guys!

I'm gonna repost this on the main forum to see if it gets anyone interested in MP.

[The Celtic Viking]

As far as that battle went...Wow! Great job by the Romans/Pergamese commanders. Its funny because history sort of repeated itself. A brazen advance by the Pergamese general made that side of the Seleucid line give way and exposed the rear of the phalanx which led to confusion and eventually no flank support. And on the right side, the Seleucids were too slow in exploiting any advantage they had in order to save the main line. As I'd hoped, it appears that it was difficult for the two wings to coordinate with the phalangites against a mobile foe. Awesome battle guys!


It was impossible because Aga, who was controlling the Phalanx, would not do anything and I couldn't do anything without him. He just let the whole Roman army run and flank us even though I told him to move multiple times and even had to move out on my own before he reacted in any sort of way. Me and yav also had to tell him to help Yav at all, and not just leave him alone which would've seen Yav die even if Pergamon had been his only opponent. IIRC, all he then did was to move his phalanx to... protect his phalanx line from getting flanked, leaving Yav to his fate. Yav then got a connection problem - I don't know what happened, but if he rage quitted, I wouldn't blame him. I just suicide charged in the end out of frustration.

With someone else than Aga in that position, we might've had a chance. And yes, I'm still bloody annoyed.

[Arjos]

Fixed the units, thx for the heads up...
About Ptolemaios, I wasn't even sure to add him, he pretty much took part as an inspiring presence with Arsinoe, but I gave him a bodyguard unit now...
Had to move his 2.000 peltastai to the other wing commander, as the left went over 20 units :S

About Magnesia, as I said to Shak last night: no matter which composition your army has, teamwork will win ^^ (Even though we spent half the time before engagement to convince Vega we weren't doomed lol)
He's going to make a commentary, we can add that to your post to advertise :)
The bigger the community, the more epic our events will get!

[Lazy O]

I wont be playing Raphia. Or anything EB for that matter. Might get some games in on Nov 18-19.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

It was impossible because Aga, who was controlling the Phalanx, would not do anything and I couldn't do anything without him. He just let the whole Roman army run and flank us even though I told him to move multiple times and even had to move out on my own before he reacted in any sort of way. Me and yav also had to tell him to help Yav at all, and not just leave him alone which would've seen Yav die even if Pergamon had been his only opponent. IIRC, all he then did was to move his phalanx to... protect his phalanx line from getting flanked, leaving Yav to his fate. Yav then got a connection problem - I don't know what happened, but if he rage quitted, I wouldn't blame him. I just suicide charged in the end out of frustration.

With someone else than Aga in that position, we might've had a chance. And yes, I'm still bloody annoyed.

It appears, and I wasn't playing so I'm not sure, from the replay that Aga may have had a hard time considering his phalanx as the component of a larger army, rather than an army in and of itself. He was hesitant and looked like he wanted to play defense although he controlled about 80% of your infantry. In any event, it shows the frustration of getting your subordinates to do what you want in battle.

[gamegeek2]

I definitely want in on any future historical battles.

And I look forward to seeing the replay (I'm away from home atm and for some reason forgot to bring my laptop charger!)

[Arjos]

I wont be playing Raphia. Or anything EB for that matter. Might get some games in on Nov 18-19.
No worries, get your studying done, all army compositions are here to stay carved into rock, we can play them anytime ^^

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

What map would suit Raphia well? Syrian flats? I know it was fought near the shore but not up against the water as far as I'm aware.

[Arjos]

I was thinking "The Qattara", mainly to avoid the plainness of flat maps :D

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Ok I remember looking at that one. As long as there isn't a hill it should be fine. Just be aware that slight elevation differences mean everything in phalangite warfare though.

[Yavana]

Network is FULL FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!!

[vartan]

I highly recommend using voice chat for each team in order to make the coordination far better. This isn't speculation. I can attest to its success.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Well in some instances, we want coordination to be poor or challenging a la the Seleucids at Magnesia. Team chat represents such difficulties in the heat of battle.

[Lazy O]

Because some people do not see chat...

[The Celtic Viking]

Well in some instances, we want coordination to be poor or challenging a la the Seleucids at Magnesia. Team chat represents such difficulties in the heat of battle.

There's no need to cripple the handicapped, they already have a mobility deficit.

[Kival]

I'm not so sure if I'd like to use teamchat or skype or something similar. I actually like just writing. I don't think the problem is one of the communication medium, it's the communication itself. Between some players it's working and between others not. Seems to be kinda normal to me.

By the way, would it be possible to represent some battle of the mithridates wars or are our units too outdated for that?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Definitely not too outdated. IIRC the early Pontic armies were composed mainly of phalangites while the later ones were done more in imitation of the Roman way of fighting. Both types of units are certainly available to us.

Which battle did you have in mind? It might make a good third entry after Raphia.

[Arjos]

What happened in our Magnesia as far as I can tell wasn't a lack of communication, but team members fighting separately...

Mithridates Wars shouldn't be a problem I think, I did Raphia compositions as it was second in the poll, maybe we can open a new one to pick our next 2-3 battles...

[gamegeek2]

Magnesia was fun, so here's Raphia according to Polybios:

Ptolemaioi (roughly 75.000)

Ptolemaios Philopator (left)

Ptolemy's guard (general unit) - 1x Somatophylakes Strategou
40 african elephants - 2x Elephantes Liboukoi
700 cavalry of the guard - 1x Agema Klerouchon Hippeon (2 chevrons)
2.300 lybian and egyptian horses - 2x Machimoi Hippeis
3.000 royal agema - 3x Basilikon Agema
3.000 Lybians armed in the macedonian fashion - 3x Thureophoroi
3.000 Cretans - 3x Kretikoi Toxotai (1 chevron)
5.000 phalanx body - 5x Klerouchoi Phalangitai

Andromachos (center left)

20.000 phalanx body (general unit) - 15x Klerouchoi Phalangitai and 5x Pezhetairoi

Sosibios (center right)

20.000 egyptian phalanx (general unit) - 20x Machimoi Phalangitai

Echecrates (right)

2.000 greek mercenary cavalry (general unit) - 2x Lonchophoroi Hippeis (1 chevron)
8.000 greek mercenaries - 8x Hoplitai
4.000 Galatian settlers - 4x Galatikoi Klerouchoi
2.000 Thracians - 2x Thraikioi Peltastai (1 chevron)
2.000 peltasts - 2x Peltastai
33 african elephants - 2x Elephantes Liboukoi

Arche Seleukeia (roughly 68.000)

Antiochos (right)

4.000 royal cavalry (general unit) - 1x Somatophylakes Strategou and 4x Hetairoi
60 indian elephants - 3x Elephantes Indikoi
1.500 Cretans - 1x Kretikoi Toxotai
5.000 Medes, Cissians, Cadusii and Carmanians armed in the macedonian fashion - 5x Thureophoroi
5.000 greek mercenaries - 5x Hoplitai

Nicarchos (center right)

20.000 phalanx body - 15x Pantodapoi Phalangitai and 5x Klerouchoi Phalangitai

Theodotos (center left)

10.000 silver shields - 10x Argyraspides
10.000 Arabs - 5x Bnei Shevet 'Arabim and 5x Erínamesh ana-Arabim

Themison (left)

2.000 cavalry (general unit) - 2x Asabârân-î Mâdâën
42 indian elephants - 2x Elephantes Indikoi
500 lydian javelineers - 1x Akontistai
1.000 Cardaces - 1x Gund-î Paltâ
5.000 light-armed Dahae, Carmanians and Cilicians - 1x Kôfyârên-î Verkhânâ, 2x Tabargânê Êrânshahr and 2x Anatolikoi Phyletai
1.000 agrianian slingers - 1x Sphendonetai
1.000 persian bowmen - 1x Thanvarê Pârsig
2.000 Thracians - 2x Thraikioi Peltastai

This battle is a MASSIVE infantry clash, we are going to need 4v4, so people come hither!

PS: I gave chevrons to the units said to have received specific training prior to the campaign, if anyone spots the need for more to balance the battle, do tell :)

I've taken liberty to highlight a few errors or misinterpretations.

Dahae refers to the Dahae tribe, who fought mostly as light horse archers and cavalrymen. There are actually Dahae Riders and Dahae Skirmish cavalry in EB, but idk if they are available to the AS. The Carmanians were probably light horsemen as well.

Cardaces refer to Persian Hoplites. We have a unit called the Kardaka-e Arteshtar, the Persian Hoplites. Use those.

I would further give the Arabs a bit of experience, as Antiochos probably wasn't bringing a bunch of raw levy non-subject peoples to the battle, or at least I would give the Shevet a bit of experience.

[gamegeek2]

What about Arausio (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Arausio)?

I would consider the Roman's reported numbers not too far off from the truth (much as the numbers at Cannae, the only battle that can compete with Arausio in terms of how badly the Romans were slaughtered): 120,000 Romans and ~200,000 Germans, Celts, Balts, and the like. This makes sense given that the majority of the Germanic armies will be composed of spear-armed warbands and levy spearmen, so the battle should be fairly balanced.

Our map would need to be a river map, with the river dividing the two armies.

[Arjos]

These consisted first of Daae, Carmanians, and Cilicians, light-armed troops about five thousand in number organized and commanded by Byttacus the Macedonian.


Aspasianus the Mede had under him a force of about five thousand Medes, Cissians, Cadusians, and Carmanians.


then the mercenaries from Greece and next these the five thousand armed in the Macedonian fashion under the command of Byttacus the Macedonian.


...next these the Cardacian and Lydian javelineers, then three thousand light-armed troops under Menedemus, after these the Cissians, Medes, and Carmanians, and finally, in contact with the phalanx, the Arabs and neighbouring tribes.

Yup, those passages confused me XD

Fixed, but about the Dahae and Carmanians lightly armed in the macedonian fashion, which unit would you take?
And the cardacian hoplites aren't in the AS roster, plus they are very far from the phalanx next to light troops and javelineers :S

[gamegeek2]

I will add the Cardacians, make the fear changes, and add the saka by the end of the week or at least I will try to.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Hellenistic factions can't recruit Kardakes in campaign and there is no mercenary model. I feel like their model conflicts with another and will cause crashes but I suppose its worth a shot.

Also, should we have separate edu's for standard and historical battles? We'd have to be giving some factions access to units we may not want them to get for gameplay's sake.

[Kival]

Which battle did you have in mind? It might make a good third entry after Raphia.

I was not thinking about a pecific battle, to be precise I don't know any battle but I think we could find one.

[The Celtic Viking]

When you (GG2? Robin? Whoever makes the historical EDU) adds the Cardakians you should also add the Thraikian Peltasts to the Ptolemaioi.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

As I feared, Kardakes crash the game when you try to load up a battle with your little grey peasants. No skin. We'll just have to be creative and use something else, maybe Babylonian Spearmen or even just Greek Hoplites?

[Arjos]

Fixed with Babylonians...

[Kival]

We could perhaps delete the greek hoplitai from the roster for the match.

[Arjos]

We could perhaps delete the greek hoplitai from the roster for the match.

But there were greek mercenaries in the battle :S

[antisocialmunky]

They are your strongest infantry unit lawl.

[Kival]

But there were greek mercenaries in the battle :S

Oh, yeah, I missed that.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Deleting them doesn't matter much anyway as:
1. They don't share a model with Kardakes who use underhand spear. I'm not really sure if Kardakes share a model with any other unit now that I think of it...
2. It is the missing skin that causes crashes I think.

[Kival]

Persian hoplites are not overhand?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Persian hoplites are not overhand?

Nope, underhand with longsword secondary. Similar model to the Babylonian Spearmen and Armenian Elites but they do not share because Hai can recruit all three.

[Lazy O]

FFS you just have to edit one line in the DMB to make them useable...

[Kival]

Nope, underhand with longsword secondary.

Wow, they are better than I thought.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Raphia happening this weekend?

[The Celtic Viking]

That's what I'm hoping. Is everyhing - map choice, edu etc. - ready?

[TheShakAttack]

Please check logistics thread.

[Arjos]

That's what I'm hoping. Is everyhing - map choice, edu etc. - ready?

gg2 was going to try and get the edu done for this weekend, so hopefully we should be ready...

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Lol, you guys used the wrong elephants for the Ptolemies in the battle. Should be Forest Elephants not Bush Elephants. Anyway, 1000 kills for 1 unit? Was Aga asleep at the wheel with all those skirms?

I'd like to fight Raphia again and participate this time. That looked like a massively fun battle.

[Lazy O]

Actually I have no bloody idea what happened to aga.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

He left a gap between his line and Kival and Arjos ran a unit of elephants down Kival's ENTIRE line. All the elephants died but not before they got over 1000 kills and routed about 3/4 of Kival's phalangites.

[Lazy O]

So thats why kival said his line is gone :D

[Arjos]

Lol, you guys used the wrong elephants for the Ptolemies in the battle. Should be Forest Elephants not Bush Elephants.

In the battle account, they described them having wooden towers :)

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

There is a forest elephant model with wooden towers but I'm not 100% sure that the Ptollies can recruit it or if it is only for Carthage.

[Arjos]

What's wrong with ethiopian/nubian elephants?
Ptoleis hunted them and made colonies for that sole purpose...

[The Celtic Viking]

There is a forest elephant model with wooden towers but I'm not 100% sure that the Ptollies can recruit it or if it is only for Carthage.

Only for Carthage.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

What's wrong with ethiopian/nubian elephants?
Ptoleis hunted them and made colonies for that sole purpose...

These were still forest elephants though, down the temperate coastal regions of eastern africa. It's unsure if a Bush Elephant was ever used in combat and so this is one of the more fantastical units in EB.

[Arjos]

Ah gotcha, still the other without towers is really no match for indikoi :P

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Ah gotcha, still the other without towers is really no match for indikoi :P

Thats sorta supposed to be the point at Raphia lol

[Arjos]

It still was, some routed even before engaging :D

[TheShakAttack]

These were still forest elephants though, down the temperate coastal regions of eastern africa. It's unsure if a Bush Elephant was ever used in combat and so this is one of the more fantastical units in EB.

Yeah I completly agree. Which is why I was surprised that we were using Bush elephants for Raphia, but since I don't know much about the battle, thought it was recorded that way.

Having said that, there was supposedly a (now extinct) sub species of elephant in north africa which was a bit larger than the modern day forest eles, though smaller than the "Syrian ele" (which is also now extinct). A lot of asian elephants were known as syrian elephants- it is unclear if the asian eles used were actually syrian or indian (syrians were bigger than indian, though, it seems, less amenable to training).

[Kival]

Having said that, there was supposedly a (now extinct) sub species of elephant in north africa which was a bit larger than the modern day forest eles, though smaller than the "Syrian ele" (which is also now extinct). A lot of asian elephants were known as syrian elephants- it is unclear if the asian eles used were actually syrian or indian (syrians were bigger than indian, though, it seems, less amenable to training).



Isn't that sub species in north africa exactly what the bush elephants are trying to represent?

[vartan]

Isn't that sub species in north africa exactly what the bush elephants are trying to represent?
I think you're right Kival. I remember reading this in the descriptions somewhere.

[TheShakAttack]

I don't think so- the North African subspecies was considerably smaller than proper bush/savanna elephants (which still exist today) or Indian/Syrian elephants. According to accounts, these NA eles were also "scared" of the indian/syrian elephants and kind of refused to engage.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I don't think so- the North African subspecies was considerably smaller than proper bush/savanna elephants (which still exist today) or Indian/Syrian elephants. According to accounts, these NA eles were also "scared" of the indian/syrian elephants and kind of refused to engage.

Agreed. The in game model shows the Bush Elephant as about the same size as Indians, perhaps even larger. If anything, the Forest Elephant also represents this type of "Ethiopian" elephant of which some refused to engage Indians and others just got pushed around by the larger opponent.

[Arjos]

Battle of Arausio (105 BC)
Map: EB River Jordan

Romani (roughly 80.000)

3 armies (12 legions) under a consul and a proconsul.

Gnaeus Mallius Maximus (farther roman force)

1 Eqvites Consvlares (general unit)
1 polybian Eqvites Romani
1 Curepos
2 Velites
2 Akontistai
2 polybian Hastati
2 Hastati Samnitici
3 polybian Principes
2 Pezoi Brettioi
1 polybian Triarii
1 Gaemile Liguriae
1 Pedites Extraordinarii
1 Samnitici Milites

Allied Mallius (farther roman force)

1 Liguriae Epos
2 Accensi
2 Toxotai
2 Velites
2 Akontistai
2 polybian Hastati
2 Hastati Samnitici
3 polybian Principes
2 Pezoi Brettioi
1 polybian Triarii (general unit)
1 Gaemile Liguriae

Quintus Servilius Caepio (hither roman force)

1 Eqvites Consvlares (general unit)
1 polybian Eqvites Romani
1 Curepos
2 Velites
2 Akontistai
2 polybian Hastati
2 Hastati Samnitici
3 polybian Principes
2 Pezoi Brettioi
1 polybian Triarii
1 Gaemile Liguriae
1 Pedites Extraordinarii
1 Samnitici Milites

Allied Caepio (hither roman force)

1 Liguriae Epos
2 Accensi
2 Toxotai
2 Velites
2 Akontistai
2 polybian Hastati
2 Hastati Samnitici
3 polybian Principes
2 Pezoi Brettioi
1 polybian Triarii (general unit)
1 Gaemile Liguriae

Swebozez (roughly 82.000)

300.000 from the Cimbri, Ambrones, Teutones, Tigurini, Marcomanni and Boii; keeping with Caesar account of the Helvetii, I'm going to deduce a fighting force of circa 75k.

Tigurini - Arverni (left)

1 Mori Gaesum (general unit)
4 Gaeroas (1 chevron)
4 Gaisolitho Aljod (1 chevron)
2 Botroas (1 chevron)
4 Teceitos
1 Brihentin
2 Leuce Epos
1 Sotaroas
1 Iaosatae

Boiorix (center left)

1 Xosenthōzez Xazdādoi (general unit)
1 Dreugolōzez Brunjādoi
1 Xerunoudōzez
4 Dugundiz
4 Druxtiz Goudiskā (1 chevron)
2 Jugundiz (1 chevron)
2 Sloxonez (1 chevron)
1 Marxolitho Wolxiskod
2 Reidonez
1 Skudjonez
1 Iaosatae

Theudobod (center right)

1 Xosenthōzez Xazdādoi (general unit)
1 Dreugolōzez Brunjādoi
1 Xerunoudōzez
4 Dugundiz
4 Druxtiz Goudiskā (1 chevron)
2 Jugundiz (1 chevron)
2 Sloxonez (1 chevron)
1 Marxolitho Wolxiskod
2 Reidonez
1 Skudjonez
1 Iaosatae

Ambrones (right)

1 Worgōzez (general unit 1 chevron)
2 Xerunoudōzez
3 Dugundiz
3 Gaisolitho Aljod (1 chevron)
3 Gaisofulxo Frijod (1 chevron)
2 Jugundiz (1 chevron)
2 Sloxonez (1 chevron)
2 Reidonez
1 Skudjonez
1 Iaosatae

As usual, any problems or errors spotted, point them out ^^

[gamegeek2]

I would actually put the Cimbric fighting force as somewhat higher than the Roman one, but I'll have to read on that.

[Arjos]

Looking forward for that...
I went with 1/4 fighting men, 1/4 women, 2/4 children, elders, sick and maybe young people still not fit for combat or not armed...
Plus imo, this would explain their acceptance to diplomatic talks to avert fighting...

[antisocialmunky]

The real question is which side the trees are on.

[TheShakAttack]

Dunno about Italy, but here 2/4 = 1/2 :P

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Maybe add some Boii Cingetos to one of the Sweboz armies? I think the Boii and other central European Celtic peoples made up a substantial part of the invasion force so I think a few of these guys would be appropriate. And captain in Uridusios unit seems a bit odd. I think he would have better sense than that, no?:laugh4:

Also some of the Sweboz armies seem a little missile heavy considering Germanic tendencies and general size of missile components at this point in time.

[Yavana]

Dibs on germanic center left!

[gamegeek2]

The Ambrones, Teutones, and Cimbri all hailed from the general Jutland area. However, much of the strength of the Cimbric migration was obviously derived from the joining of many others who weren't from this area in the migration. I am highly doubtful that the Jutland area alone could have supplied more than 300,000 people for a migration, though I'm obviously not entirely sure. Since the migration passed through eastern Celtic lands, it probably gained some followers from the inhabitants of that region; so I'd definitely include some number of Celtic troops in the army.

My solution would be to place the armies of the Tigurini and Boii and other Eastern celts into one of the four armies on the Cimbric side of the battle.

I would have the battle as a 4v3 with three Suebic (Cimbric), one Arvernic, and three Roman players.

Celtic Force - Arverni (We have to use a Celtic faction)
1 Brihentin (the Bodyguard unit)
1 Brihentin (the regular unit)
2 Leuce Epos
1 Sotaroas
1 Iaosatae
4 Noricene Gaecorii
4 Boii Cingetos
2 Neitos
2 Gaeroas
2 Teceitos

Boiorix
1 Xosenthozez Xazdadoi
1 Thexnozez Dreuguloi
2 Reidonez
1 Marxolitho Wolxiskod
1 Iaosatae
1 Skeudjonez
4 Gaisofulxo Frijod (1 exp)
4 Druxtiz Goudiska
4 Dugundiz
2 Xerunoudozez

Teutobod
1 Xosenthozez Xazdadoi
1 Thexnozez Dreuguloi
2 Reidonez
1 Marxolitho Wolxiskod
1 Iaosatae
1 Skeudjonez
4 Gaisofulxo Frijod (1 exp)
4 Druxtiz Goudiska
4 Dugundiz
2 Xerunoudozez


Ambrones
The Ambrones were considered to be the fiercest of all the tribes, and numbered 30,000 or more. I would have this army be smaller than the others but more experienced.

[vartan]

Could somebody (whoever is "running" this HB series) please either in the original post or somewhere else (or in my PM box) compile a list containing the names of the battles completed so far, their finalized army lists (including corresponding EB units and numbers), and links to both the replay of the battle and the EDU used at the time?

[TheShakAttack]

Nobody is "running" it per se; Arjos and Robin take care of army comps, and I handle the logistics of it (or at least try to).

I have posted the EDU + replay file in the " any videos?" thread. I produce a copy below.

Please find attached replays and EDU of the two historical battles we have so far fought.

Magnesia and Raphia.

Magnesia: Rome (Shak, Vega, Arjos) vs AS (The Celtic Viking, Yavana, Agathodaimon)

Raphia: Ptolemes (Shak, TCV, Vega, Arjos) vs AS (Lazy, gamegeek2, Aga, Kival)

http://www.mediafire.com/?s750bdv88fh7bac

Team compositions to be found: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?138633-EB-3v3-or-4v4-Historical-Battle-Idea

[The Celtic Viking]

Is it tomorrow we're doing this battle?

[vartan]

Both battles used November 4 non-EDU essential files? (i.e., projectile, mount, etc.)

EDIT: Scratch that. There hasn't been an update since October 1.

[Arjos]

gg2 I dunno about such low exp armies for the Sweboz, they did raid and fought through half of Gaul and the Danube basin...
And do you really think 4 Gaisofulxo Frijod are better for the young and poors than Jugundiz and Sloxonez?


I would have the battle as a 4v3 with three Suebic (Cimbric), one Arvernic, and three Roman players.

Numbers as a whole are quite clear, 300k the invasion group (1/4 of able men is very logical) and 80k legionaries/socii...
After the battle, consul P. Rutilius Rufus, informed how Romans weren't to leave Italy as the rest of the area wasn't safe; imo says how their 3 quickly raised armies got destroyed...


Maybe add some Boii Cingetos to one of the Sweboz armies? I think the Boii and other central European Celtic peoples made up a substantial part of the invasion force so I think a few of these guys would be appropriate. And captain in Uridusios unit seems a bit odd. I think he would have better sense than that, no?:laugh4:

Also some of the Sweboz armies seem a little missile heavy considering Germanic tendencies and general size of missile components at this point in time.

- I wasn't sure about the Boii Cingetos and Norici, because first they are quite professional troops and second the Norici were allied with Rome...

- Decided for a Uirodusios, because I was using the Sweboz roster and I needed a semi-professional Keltic unit for the Tigurini general, but since he was unkown, or maybe was just a noble council, I went for the nakeds...

- Yes, missiles I wasn't too sure, but I thought to add some "foragers, hunters and scouts" to the mix...


The Ambrones were considered to be the fiercest of all the tribes, and numbered 30,000 or more. I would have this army be smaller than the others but more experienced.

Yes, in my army I consider really Ambrones the first "elite" units, rest were mostly Teutones, Cimbri and Danubian folks...


Both battles used November 4 non-EDU essential files? (i.e., projectile, mount, etc.)

EDIT: Scratch that. There hasn't been an update since October 1.

Each battle had its own EDU so far, I hope we'll get the official MP EDU compatible for HBs, if we keep on doing one per week :P
If you still need the PM with all compos, lemme know and I'll send it asap ^^

[vartan]

Each battle had its own EDU so far, I hoped we'll get the official MP EDU compatible for HBs, if we keep on doing one per week :P
That's old news as of Shak's post. I'm inquiring about non-EDU essential files and whether those used were the originals or those as of EBO MP EDU 3.0 build 1001, because those are two different things and if everyone is ignorant about it I shall assume the latter case as that's what your directories would be tainted with since you all are EBO players to begin with.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I don't think that anything needs to be changed to accommodate units in this battle. Past two we ran into instances where units present were not in the respective rosters. And of course 6 fear cataphracts in Magnesia seemed a little unfair to the Romans. I think the current normal edu would work perfectly for this battle unless there are some units involved that I am not aware of.

Oh and Vartan, the other 3 files located within the data folder have not been touched for HB. Only the backup mp edu has been modified.

[Arjos]

That's old news as of Shak's post. I'm inquiring about non-EDU essential files and whether those used were the originals or those as of EBO MP EDU 3.0 build 1001, because those are two different things and if everyone is ignorant about it I shall assume the latter case as that's what your directories would be tainted with since you all are EBO players to begin with.

Yes, sorry, only EDU in the MP backup was modified...


Past two we ran into instances where units present were not in the respective rosters.

Yes, and since next battle is Pydna, and Romans have eles there too, can't we just add them in the official EDU? XD

[gamegeek2]

If I understand, it was actually 200,000 to 300,000 able bodied soldiers/men in the group, not the entire group numbering 300,000.

[Arjos]

Total casualties and captured people, when Marius was done, is given at 310.000, and they say that with that the two tribes were annihilated, with few survivors settling in Belgica...
Plus can see many similarities with the invasion of the Balkans and with the Helvetii migration, seemed like very reasonable numbers...
200k-300k warriors would need something like 800k-1mil people in total to sustain, and that's just plain impossible...

PS: is the revised composition ok for everyone?


Is it tomorrow we're doing this battle?

If everyone is ok for 19 GMT as last time, I hope so :)

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

If I understand, it was actually 200,000 to 300,000 able bodied soldiers/men in the group, not the entire group numbering 300,000.

Wouldn't that be an awfully large migration for this period? If there were 300,000 able bodied men, we'd have to assume at the very least 800,000 total, probably closer to one million migrants.

[vartan]

Wouldn't that be an awfully large migration for this period? If there were 300,000 able bodied men, we'd have to assume at the very least 800,000 total, probably closer to one million migrants.
Is it just me or do those numbers sound a little bit over the top?

[gamegeek2]

IIRC, it was the start of a 100 or so year decline in the population of some parts of Germania. It was very big. Big enough that subsequently the peninsula was occupied by the Jutes, Angles, and Varini.

I'd put the number somewhere between 100,000 and 200,000 men capable of military service.

[Kival]

If everyone is ok for 19 GMT as last time, I hope so :)



I would like to raise that question again. It seems as If nobody wanted to answer the question of the date of this battle. I thought it would happen... now but there are not enough guys.

[The Celtic Viking]

Hey Arjos, did you make a mistake when making the unit list? Me and Vega have looked through the Sweboz unit list and we can't find any unit called "Xorjonoz Dreugondijoz", which you have set for Boiorix and Theudobod.

[Arjos]

Was using the heimstatt list and that's an old name, thx for the heads up ^^
Fixed with Dreugolōzez Brunjādoi...

[gamegeek2]

Right, I'd put it at about 80-100,000 troops then, compared with 80,000 romans.

[Arjos]

Right, I'd put it at about 80-100,000 troops then, compared with 80,000 romans.

I'll recount how many are now with this compo, since we added quite a few units with 100 men, I think we reached a similar number...

Edit: ok, now the cimbrian army has little more men, so let's say something in the region of 82k...

[gamegeek2]

Wait, are we going with my composition?

[Arjos]

Wait, are we going with my composition?

I've kept on editing mine with all your feedbacks :)

[antisocialmunky]

Can we just have a sticky with army lists for famous battles somewhere so we can play them out whenever we want to?

[gamegeek2]

Was using the heimstatt list and that's an old name, thx for the heads up ^^
Fixed with Dreugolōzez Brunjādoi...

Why not give them the Xosenthozez Xazdadoi?

[Arjos]

Why not give them the Xosenthozez Xazdadoi?

Gave them 1 of each, wanted only the 2 generals with the eagle...


Can we just have a sticky with army lists for famous battles somewhere so we can play them out whenever we want to?

I'll make a new thread, where I'll add compos after each battle...

Btw Magnesia I've adjusted the armies with some rounding, we should really re-play it :P

[Arjos]

4v4 HBs bit rare lately, so back with a 3v3:

Battle of Pydna (168 BC)

Makedonia (roughly 42.000)

Perseos (right)

Royal Guard (general unit) - 1x Somatophylakes Strategou
2.000 Sacred and Royal Squadrons - 2x Hetairoi (1 chevron)
1.000 Light Squadron - 1x Hetairoi Aspidophoroi (1 chevron)
1.000 Cretans - 1x Toxotai Kretikoi
1.000 Greek exiles - 1x Hoplitai
2.000 Agrianes - 2x Agrianikoi Pelekuphoroi
4.000 Phalangites - 4x Hysteroi Pezhetairoi

Antigonos (center)

3.000 Caetrati (general unit) - 3x Peltastai Makedonikoi (1 chevron)
17.000 Phalangites - 4x Pezhetairoi and 9x Phalangitai Deuteroi (1 chevron)
2.000 Cretans - 2x Toxotai Kretikoi

Kotys IV (left) - Getai

Kotys' Guard (general unit) - 1x Phylakes Daoi
6.000 Thracians - 1x Thraikioi Rhomphaiaphoroi and 5x Thraikioi Peltastai (1 chevron)
1.000 Gauls - 1x Galatikoi Kluddolon (1 chevron)
1.000 Illyrian Penestae - 1x Illyrioi Thureophoroi
1.000 Odrysian Cavalry - 1x Thraikioi Hippeis (1 chevron)

SPQR (roughly 39.000)

Lucius Aemilius Paullus (center)

Aemilius' Guard (general unit) - 1x Eqvites Consvlares
1.000 Cretans - 1x Toxotai Kretikoi
7.000 Legionaries - 1x Velites, 2x Hastati, 2x Principes, 1x Triarii (polybian) and 1x Pedites Extraordinarii
6.000 Legionaries - 1x Akontistai, 2x Hastati Samnitici, 2x Pezoi Brettioi (1 chevron), 1x Iphikratous Hoplitai (1 chevron)


Lucius Postumius Albinus (right)

Albinus' Guard (general unit) - 1x Eqvites Consvlares
1.200 Roman Cavalry - 1x Eqvites Romani (polybian)
1.000 Numidian Cavalry - 1x Parasim Numidim (1 chevron)
22 War Elephants - 1x Pilei Ya'ar Libim
1.000 Cretans - 1x Toxotai Kretikoi
1.000 Numidian Infantry - 1x Mitnagsim Numidim (1 chevron)
7.000 Legionaries - 1x Velites, 2x Hastati, 2x Principes, 1x Triarii (polybian) and 1x Pedites Extraordinarii
6.000 Legionaries - 1x Akontistai, 2x Hastati Samnitici, 2x Pezoi Brettioi (1 chevron) and 1x Iphikratous Hoplitai (1 chevron)

Hellenes (left) - Koinon Hellenon

1.000 Pergamese Cavalry (general unit) - 1x Lonchophoroi Hippeis (1 chevron)
1.000 Thessalians - 1x Hippeis Thessalikoi (1 chevron)
6.000 Achean, Aetolian and Pergamese Infantry - 2x Thorakitai Hoplitai (1 chevron), 2x Thureophoroi and 2x Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai

[TheShakAttack]

Sounds good. Will come up put up a post in logistics thread tomorrow.

[Kival]

Why did you use Iphikratous Hoplitai? They are in no way similar to trarii. Should they not have at least similar armour?

[Arjos]

Picked the only hellenic unit, with an underhand spear, available to SPQR...

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

In lieu of a Hellenic or Italic unit, couldn't Triarii just be used again? Since Italian peoples would likely be armed similarly.

[antisocialmunky]

Use Syracusian hoplites.

[Arjos]

Actually no fix lol Italics should be a little lighter...

Aspis weren't that common by then, I'd use the iphi...


Since Italian peoples would likely be armed similarly.

Imo chainmail and greaves are far heavier than the equipment they had...

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Give them 2 chevrons then so they are somewhat decent.

[Arjos]

Tactically speaking they don't have to be a triarii counterpart, only whatever fighting tradition the people of Megale Hellas would've fielded...

[antisocialmunky]

They have pediites extraordinarii which is the Italic Elite.

[Arjos]

Right, one for each consul is acceptable as personal guard...

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Hey guys, if we want to try to get another MP Historical Battle up and running I've bumped this thread forward in the MP section. We can attempt to get a 4v4 together (unlikely) or we can just play some regular matches and come up with some battle concepts and army comps for later in the year when more players are available, that way we can just get them up and running without any prep work.

[antisocialmunky]

What hamachi channel and EDU. Might be on tomorrow.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Same edu as we last used. Try the main channel initially, if you can't get on use the aux network. The id's and passwords are posted by Vega about halfway down the page in the new player questions topic.

[antisocialmunky]

What is that even since Vartan stopped paying his bills.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Sticky topic in this subforum has all the network ID numbers and passwords

[antisocialmunky]

EB 1 is full.

[vartan]

What is that even since Vartan stopped paying his bills. http://ebportal.tk/ I didn't stop paying my bills. Someone literally bought our domain out (idk who in the world wants EBOnline.tk...really?!). Just a note: 4v4 is actually 8 people: that's unfortunately the limit now for entire Hamachi networks. Please feel free to make temporary ones for this purpose. If you try to use a main/aux network or if I even make another one, people not even participating in the Historical Battle will (un)intentionally take up a slot or two and ruin it for y'all.

[antisocialmunky]

Meh, lets just get Evolve running, the RS2 guys have it working apparently.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=495435

[Lazy O]

No, they used it before us, then I told Vartan about it, RS2 MP is dead .

[antisocialmunky]

Darn you Stormrage!

Lets try doing evolve again.

[vartan]

Lets try doing evolve again.
Evolve never left us. You guys left Evolve. Please return to testing. I've talked to Dreijer and he's only showed me support. Please don't waste this opportunity for a shift in platform. It's what I've been hoping for for the past 3 years.

[The Celtic Viking]

Sure, I'm all for forgiveness and stuff; I can give Evolve another chance.

[NacroxNicke]

I will help to try Evolve too, I'm replying just to let it for others users to contact me.

Also a list with the users to add them in friends would be helpful too.

[The Celtic Viking]

Me, Vega and Robin just tried Evolve again - Vega and Robin got the same problem that Arjos and I got before, that is, whenever both of them were in the same room they both got partially connected. In the lobby I could see Vega but not Robin, and neither of them could see me. That remained true even when one of them left and the remaining got connected again. When Vega hosted a game I would always get no response. There's not much we can do when it's not working at all. :shrug:

[vartan]

Me, Vega and Robin just tried Evolve again - Vega and Robin got the same problem that Arjos and I got before, that is, whenever both of them were in the same room they both got partially connected. In the lobby I could see Vega but not Robin, and neither of them could see me. That remained true even when one of them left and the remaining got connected again. When Vega hosted a game I would always get no response. There's not much we can do when it's not working at all. :shrug:

Gotta let Dreijer know. He needs to know where to look to solve the issue. I'm sorry to hear it's still the case.

[gamegeek2]

We gotta do another one of these...did we ever get to doing arausio?

I could make a scenario for it if you wish.

We also want to design EBNOM historical battles, if we could get someone to volunteer for that and testing it would be great!

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

We gotta do another one of these...did we ever get to doing arausio?

I could make a scenario for it if you wish.

We also want to design EBNOM historical battles, if we could get someone to volunteer for that and testing it would be great!

We don't have enough active players atm to make historical battles a reality. It will probably have to wait until May.

[gamegeek2]

Well, it won't for our EBNOM testing...:laugh4:

[Arjos]

Ok all hail the temp folder!

Here's (http://www.mediafire.com/?h3nnvmzgwamx38m) Pydna, again sorry for that 180° and fixed the number of Deuteroi, forgot they had more men than the other phalangitai :P

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Twas a good battle nontheless. Our team would have benefited from some more patience and testing the phalanx's edges but alas, it was not meant to be.

Arausio should be up next!

[Arjos]

Arausio should be up next!

Really hope so!
We always had phalangitai so far and while yes they make quite a scene, they are so messy! XD

I want hand to hand, teeth to teeth, melee brawls! :D
Gonna work on some more compos this week ^^

[Arjos]

Battle of Agrigentum (261 BC)
Map: EB Kefallinia

Safot Softim biKarthadast (roughly 50.000)

Hannibal Gisco (commander of Agrigentum)

1x Somrei HaMepaqed (general unit)
1x Curepos
1x Iberi Curisi
2x Qala'im Balearim
1x Dorkim Shardanim
3x Gaemile Liguriae
4x Iberi Scutari
2x Dorkim Balearim

Hanno (relief force)

1x Somrei HaMepaqed (general unit)
1x Parasim Libi-Ponnim
1x Pilei Ya'ar Libim
2x Dorkim Leebi-Feenikim Aloophim
4x Dorkim Libi-Ponnim
4x 'Hanatim Libim
2x Iberi Scutari
2x Iberi Caetrati
2x Dorkim Maurim

Allied Hanno (relief force)

1x Gldgmtk (general unit)
2x Parasim Numidim
2x Pilei Ya'ar Libim
2x Qasatim Numidim
2x Mitnagsim Numidim
2x Hoplitai
2x Dorkim Libi-Ponnim
4x 'Hanatim Libim
2x Iberi Caetrati

Senatvs Popvlvsqve Romanvs (roughly 40.000)

Lvcivs Postvmivs Megellvs (right)

1x Eqvites Consvlares (general unit)
1x Camillan Eqvites Romani
2x Camillan Hastati
2x Hastati Samnitici
2x Camillan Principes
2x Pezoi Brettioi
2x Camillan Triarii
1x Pedites Extraordinarii
1x Rorarii
1x Leves
1x Akontistati
4x Battering Rams

Qvintvs Mamilivs Vitvlvs (center)

1x Eqvites Consvlares (general unit)
1x Camillan Eqvites Romani
2x Camillan Hastati
2x Hastati Samnitici
2x Camillan Principes
2x Pezoi Brettioi
2x Camillan Triarii
1x Pedites Extraordinarii
1x Rorarii
1x Leves
1x Akontistati
4x Battering Rams

Socii (left)

1x Eqvites Extraordinarii (general unit)
2x Eqvites Campanici
2x Hastati Samnitici
2x Pezoi Brettioi
2x Iphikratous Hoplitai
2x Aichmetai Leukanoi
2x Samnitici Milites
4x Battering Rams

Yes, it will be a siege battle, the rams are just a stand-in for trenches (which cannot be moved once the pre-battle deployment is done and the battle has started) and the Karthadastim are forced to fight outside the walls (well they can retreat inside, but can't stay there too long and in too big a number), but Hannibal Gisco's garrison starts inside Agrigentum...
As usual, please point out any errors or issues with the compositions :)

[-Stormrage-]

a Seige? Really, i think Land Battles would make for a better HB

[Arjos]

It's fought outside and there's plenty of space, but the two forces are supposed to be quite separated from each other...
At the same time the garrison shouldn't be easily attacked, so I had to put it inside the town...

[-Stormrage-]

Excellent, cant wait. Any particular date your gonna do this or is it just winging it.

[Arjos]

No idea: weekend, soon as there are enough people, whenever we'll feel like it :D

[Arjos]

With people crying for long deployments, here is a good ol' plain battle :D

Battle of Admagetobriga (61 BC)
Map: EB Thissakata Forest

Sekouanoi (roughly 44.000)

Katamantaledes - Arverni (left)

1x Brihentin (general unit)
1x Brihentin
1x Marxolitho Wolxiskod
2x Leuce Epos
1x Solduros
2x Bataroas
4x Gaeroas (1 chevron)
2x Teceitos

Uesontion - Arverni (center)

1x Arjos (general unit)
2x Neitos
4x Gaelaiche
2x Gaisolitho Aljod
2x Bagaudas
1x Sotaroas
2x Iaosatae

Harjawaldaz - Sweboz (right)

1x Xosenthōzez Xazdādoi (general unit)
1x Dreugulōzez Brunjādoi
2x Xerunoudōzez
4x Dugundiz
2x Sloxonez (1 chevron)
2x Jugundiz (1 chevron)
1x Xosenthōzez Marxoreidondijoi
1x Marxolitho Wolxiskod
3x Reidonez

Aiduoi (roughly 42.000)

Eporedorix (left)

1x Brihentin (general unit)
3x Brihentin
2x Leuce Epos
1x Solduros
2x Bataroas
4x Gaeroas (1 chevron)
2x Bagaudas (1 chevron)

Bibrakta (center)

1x Carnute Cingetos (general unit)
2x Neitos
1x Golberi Curoas
4x Gaelaiche
2x Lugoae (1 chevron)
1x Bagaudas
1x Sotaroas
2x Iaosatae

Uiridomaros (right)

1x Brihentin (general unit, 50 men unit)
3x Leuce Epos
4x Gaelaiche
2x Batacorii (1 chevron)
2x Kluddacorii (1 chevron)
2x Teceitos

Please point out any issues ^^

Edit: and it went fast indeed (http://www.mediafire.com/?0b8a98xup69c2ih)

[Arjos]

Here's an interesting one :)

Battle of Sentinum (295 BC)
Map: EB Lake Vanern

Samnites & Senones (roughly 50.000)

Gellius Egnatius - Epeiros (center)

1x Somatophylakes Strategou
1x Hippeis
2x akontistai
4x Hastati Samnitici
4x Pezoi Brettioi
2x Samnitici Milites
2x Aichmetai Leukanoi

Allied Egnatius - Epeiros (right)

2x Samnitici Milites (general unit)
2x Aichmetai Leukanoi
4x Pezoi Brettioi
4x Hastati Samnitici
2x Akontistai
2x Eqvites Campanici

Senones - Arverni (left)

2x Cidainh (general unit)
3x Leuce Epos
2x Bagaudas
2x Kluddacorii
4x Gaeroas
2x Botroas
2x Iaosatae

Senatvs Popvlvsqve Romanvs (roughly 40.000)

Qvintvs Fabivs Maximvs Rvllianvs (center)

1x Eqvites Consvlares (general unit)
1x camillan Eqvites Romani
2x Leves
2x camillan Hastati
2x Pezoi Brettioi
4x camillan Principes
2x camillan Triarii
1x Pedites Extraordinarii
1x Rorarii

Pvblivs Decivs Mvs (right)

1x Eqvites Consvlares (general unit)
1x camillan Eqvites Romani
2x Leves
2x camillan Hastati
2x Pezoi Brettioi
4x camillan Principes
2x camillan Triarii
1x Pedites Extraordinarii
1x Rorarii

Lvcivs Cornelivs Scipio Barbatvs (left)

1x Eqvites Consvlares (general unit)
1x Eqvites Extraordinarii
2x Eqvites Campanici
2x Akontistai
4x Pezoi Brettioi
3x Iphikratous Hoplitai

Errors, units bashing or other issues, shout them out XD