duration of sea journeys

[Kleitos]

hello,

does anyone know about realistic duration of sea journeys with the ships in the EB era or knows good links etc. where i can get these information? ..mainly for Hellenes or Romaoi.
i want to start a new advanced KH Campaign (i just love this faction) and because of my feeling that in normal Game these trips take too much time (e.g. movement handicaps of FM´s ) i would be happy for realistic clues for that.

duration with triremes and such.

..so i can maybe only ship the troops and teleport the slow Generals extra to the destination ..or let the fleet with General and troops wait in some port for the duration of the journey and teleport them at the right time to it.

(remember in one KH campaign a journey from Sparte to Massalia in almost two years!! and even Sparte to Syracuse in about a full year.)

btw: how you call these sea-journeys correctly in english? cruises?..



would be pleased,

Kleitos

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Cruise implies some sort of pleasurable aspect to the trip. Voyage is the word you are probably looking for.

[Rahl]

You can get around the problem with the slowing down movement of familiy members by choosing the fleet and then clicking on the ship(s). That way you can use the full movement of the fleet ignoring possible slow down from FMs or Generals. In campaigns where I use fleets more often I usually add further speed to the fleets by giving the Admirals the FastAgent trait via the console.

[Ca Putt]

thx for the info, I once got a FM stuck on the wrong end of Arabia due to nasty traits :D

[Kleitos]

voyage then, thanks Sir Robin!

@ Rahl - dont get it what you mean.? well i know when i click on a fleet (and in one of the fleets/ships is the General) then the range is that of the General.. when i click the ships extra the range is longer. ..but when i let the ships sail extra and further - still the last ship (fleet) with the General only can sail the short distance.?
..so thats why i thought transport only the troops and teleport the general extra.

but anyway - im interested in how long these voyages took back then. ..and want to adjust the durations in game then according so far as possible.

searched of course first and easist source wiki and got wonderful infos about these great ships in antiquity but until now i got no infos reg. duration.

[Ludens]

It probably varied a lot anyway. Trade ships were wind-powered, so the weather would determine the speed of the ship. Prevailing wind directions could mean that, say, sailing from Greece to Egypt went very quickly, but coming back would take very long. I also recall reading that sea-trading between Sicily and Greece was suspended during winter, because storms made the voyage too dangerous.

[Montmorency]

I remember reading an essay on this, but all I remember is that Lionel Casson (maybe?) was the author and it had tables of voyage durations.

I think Messina to Alexandria was 9 days? Eh.

If anyone can ascertain the source I'm referring to, it would be a boon for this thread.

[Kleitos]

i found now some hints now also - it varied most likely a lot.

just found some examples with favorable wind (its from a german wikipedia article http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schiffe_der_Antike#Segelsaison.2F_Wind - didnt find it now quickly on a english one so i just add some of these examples:
Messina - Alexandria: 6 days
Ostia - Cap Bon: 2 days
Ostia - Gibraltar: 7 days
Puteoli (near Naples most important harbour in republican era) - Alexandria: 9 days
Byzantion - Rhodos: 5 days

well it may take much longer with unfavorable wind and weather but ..the durations in the Game with more than a year (also without slow Generals) are way too long.

[d'Arthez]

But are these ships sailing for trade, or actually military convoys, with supplies and all that included? Favourable conditions are not a given. Sure the winds may be good on a seasonal basis, but that does not rule out the possibility of navigational errors, sustaining damage, rotten supplies, etc. Control of the coast would also make a lot of difference, especially if things are not going fully as planned. Sometimes you had luck, and everything would go according to plan, and other times, you could lose your entire army ...

It is a bit similar to Family members. On their own, they could of course move at a much swifter pace, than with say a consular army, especially in completely controlled parts of the state. However there is no way to actually model this in the RTW-engine.

Just use the teleport cheats to roleplay your game as you want it to be.

[Rahl]

@ Rahl - dont get it what you mean.? well i know when i click on a fleet (and in one of the fleets/ships is the General) then the range is that of the General.. when i click the ships extra the range is longer. ..but when i let the ships sail extra and further - still the last ship (fleet) with the General only can sail the short distance.?
English isn't my native language sometimes I just don't know how I can tell exactly what I mean.
You can click on the fleet with the general, then select all ships in the menu and you will see an increased range - the one of the ships ignoring the general. Then you just need to send fleet where you want, it will sail the full possible distance of the ships. Do you understand what I mean?

[Stark]

I didn't know that. Thanks for advice :smiley:

[Kleitos]

@Rahl - thanks, yes i got it know. you explained it well :yes:- the word menu did it then ..i wonder i never tried to click on the ships in the menu before ..always only on the strategy map.

it works well - and also the generals dont get the forced marching or tired trait - even when doing so for several seasons.

could it be that this is intended anyway from the EB Team to avoid the handicaps with the "slow" FM´s?

in any case i´ll use this technique now for shorter voyages ...in cases with longer distance and if important enough i do it with move_character - the whole fleet inc. General and Troops. ...(cause even in that modified way a fleet took from Athenai to Massalia more then a year.)