Minority report

[Ja'chyra]

Slippery strawmen (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15697632)

Like them or loathe them surely this is wrong, how can you be arrested for maybe thinking about commiting a crime? Surely preventing them from leaving the pub would have been enough, maybe even force the pub to stop selling alcohol.

[Papewaio]

You can be arrested for planning a major crime ie bank robbery, kidnapping or murder.

Not sure if it is right to arrest protestors or those who are their anti-equivalents though. Might not go down too well in some courts.

[Husar]

They say in the video that the terrorism laws allowed them to do that...

This really sounds a bit like those dystopias to me where everybody has to be afraid to get arrested for having the wrong thoughts.

Not that the police shouldn't try to prevent crime but it sounds like they were arrested over really minor things, using a law that shouldn't have applied at all. :shrug:

[Fragony]

It's England, like 'It's Sweden' when it's Sweden that is all that's there to say really

[Papewaio]

Most of the time the shorthand version of groups like this is that they are thugs who don't talk but resort to violence. The problem is by removing the ability for them to vent by talking or marching means that it then limits them to more violent expressions.

After all if you are going to get hanged for stealing a loaf of bread you might as well get hanged for attacking your oppressor. Make laws too harsh and you create an unjust harsh society. Remove someone's voice in a democracy and you deserve nothing less then riots.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

We have a long and proud history in this country of arresting/beating up/brutalising undesirables.

THis isn't really a new thing, except that these days the Police give a legal excuse. The difficulty with the EDL is that they are not, actually, the National Front rebranded, they aren't all loons or racists, they are a movement which is tapping into justified frustration with the direction this country is going and the failure of all politicians to fess up.

They are asking some real questions, but coming up with all the wrong answers.

[Fragony]

Name is rather poorly chosen, English muslims are also English, makes it sound as a white-power movement. But they are right to question England's rabid islamphilae

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Name is rather poorly chosen, English muslims are also English, makes it sound as a white-power movement. But they are right to question England's rabid islamphilae

In this context "English" is an ethno-cultural identity, not a national one. This is where it all gets a bit tricky, especially because Muslims seem not to self identify as "English", rather as British.

[Fragony]

They should have called it Heritage Defence League or something like that, very easy for gutmensch to make career-destroying insinuations like this, doubt the head of the police was given a choice. They should have known how this game is played, below the belt.

[Rhyfelwyr]

The difficulty with the EDL is that they are not, actually, the National Front rebranded, they aren't all loons or racists, they are a movement which is tapping into justified frustration with the direction this country is going and the failure of all politicians to fess up.

This isn't really true, the EDL is pretty much a collection of different football hooligan groups. Rangers Inter-City Firm are right into the SDL (Scottish Defence League).


English muslims are also English

It might say "British" on their passport but they are about as British as Martin McGuinness.

[Noncommunist]

Most of the time the shorthand version of groups like this is that they are thugs who don't talk but resort to violence. The problem is by removing the ability for them to vent by talking or marching means that it then limits them to more violent expressions.

After all if you are going to get hanged for stealing a loaf of bread you might as well get hanged for attacking your oppressor. Make laws too harsh and you create an unjust harsh society. Remove someone's voice in a democracy and you deserve nothing less then riots.

I read the end of the Qin Dynasty resulted from a unit of soldiers who had to go somewhere and got delayed by rain. Since the punishment for showing up late was death, they just fought back and started the chain reaction that brought down the dynasty.

[InsaneApache]

I don't see what the fuss is all about. After all, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

[Fragony]

It might say "British" on their passport but they are about as British as Martin McGuinness.

Just explaining why I think the name EDL is poor choice. Too easy for gutmensch to make it seem suspect (which it admittedly kinda is, wouldn't grab a pint with some of these types)

[Husar]

I don't see what the fuss is all about. After all, if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear.

Soon you won't be able to hide anything anyway. (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/12/my-take-keep-government-out-of-mind-reading-business/) ~D

[Sasaki Kojiro]

So some of them said on facebook that they were planning on burning tents at the st pauls occupy thing? Why haven't those tents been removed yet?

[Beskar]

Soon you won't be able to hide anything anyway. (http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2011/11/12/my-take-keep-government-out-of-mind-reading-business/) ~D

That is some serious spinning. Mindboggling so, I actually know the research behind this as I studied it whilst at university. Effectively, we have what is called "Mirror Neurons". When we watch some one bend their leg, our mind processes their action with the neuron activity mirroring the movement internally. An example of this is watching me do a puzzle, as you watch me do it, you mirror my actions so when you do the puzzle, you know what I did and simply mirror that motion.

So when they talk about lurid dreamers and them clenching their left-hand, the hypothesis is simply that when they do so in the dream, these neurons fire replicating the neuron activity within the body of them clenching their left-hand. As the article says, this was deemed to be true.

As such, you can probably work out other activities such as running in your dream, or having sexual impulses (you probably just have to look at the crotch for that one). You can probably tell if they are accessing certain memories as well, what these memories are, you wouldn't be able to tell. As for more "complex" thoughts, these would be a near impossible to decipher without very extensive data collection and testing on a subject and such results would not be replicated with another person.


In sort, I will summarize the current hypothetical extent of them being able to process:
Imagine Husar is having a dream which is very pink, he is prancing along fields of wheat, with butterflies fluttering in the air, which he attempts to catch with his hands, an overwhelming sense of euphoria on his face. With this mental picture, add more details such as the clothing he is wearing, the patterns upon the butterflies. The direction of the wind blowing, etc.

What we would be able to hypothetically tell is this - Husar is prancing and reaching out to something. The surroundings are pink. There is access to memories, imagery and other things we are unable to tell what these are. He is feeling euphoria/happiness.

Constructing from this data, we are able to tell Husar is prancing around reaching out for something in a pink environment and he feels happy. No mention of these patterns, minor details, his clothing, what these other colours or shapes are, etc.

[Ja'chyra]

I could tell you Hus is prancing without having access to his mind.