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With all this talk of the Mongol heavy cavalry being "awesome" on the battlefield, have any of you thought of how to counter this massive battlefield threat?. Personally, I will try and keep two spare units of yari samurai to counter one unit of Heavy cavalry and hope for the best. Any other suggestions?
Well, normally I keep 4 per battle, but now I might have to use up to 6, this is gonna be tough. And what about Yari Cavalry, What will they be used for?
Yoshikazu Hojo
07-08-2001, 11:01
It is a pitty that in this game as defender against the Mongols you are not allowed to set up some form of defences. The Japanese built stone walls and ditches along the beaches where the mongols were to land.
I know this game will take the story that the mongols have landed and are roaming around, there for the Mongol heavy Cav will be very hard to stop.
theforce
07-08-2001, 15:15
Well it might be a powerful cavarly game but ys and nag will not havbe nay problems killing them in no time.
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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
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Realy ? in my experiences ( i know.. only over a year i am so green http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif) my nagis get bested alot by heavy cav.. japanese http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/smile.gif
BakaGaijin
07-09-2001, 09:06
Pin the horsies on your Yari and shove some Monks up their arses! Mwahaha!
I don't understand why the mongol cavalry will be so effective. In my view all kind of cavalry are a bit weak, unless you can surprise the enemy with some heroic rear-guard action. My best tactic for horses would be either to put your yari's on the defensive or engage them in the forest.
Quote Originally posted by BakaGaijin:
Pin the horsies on your Yari and shove some Monks up their arses! Mwahaha![/QUOTE]
Actually, holy men are not available during the Mongol campaign! So kiss the monks goodbye.
But you have No-Dachis! Of course, the only thing they will be good for is for getting Korean food... they have no chance against mounted foes, Mongols included. Heck, even a Jap CA can take 'em out in H2H!
Thus, I forsee Jap armies using lots of Yari and Naginata troops. Naginata will become the new darlings of the Nippon military in the absence of Monks. Yari will become horse-skewers exclusively when facing Mongols.
And -- dont forget this extra benefit -- with their heavy armor, Naginatas will be able to withstand the onslaught of the porcelain gods! http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/biggrin.gif
theforce
07-10-2001, 00:13
A nag with the same unit as the the cav unit will send the cav to Budda in no time http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/tongue.gif
Also if they were other units close to the HC and your naginata was alone or smt or under projectile fire then the morale was low thus lost. Also if your naginata unit is exausted and the HC is fresh then it can beat it routing it easily.
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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.fateback.com
noah1234
07-10-2001, 05:39
why is the heavy cavalry so effective? In school they say that the Kahn were able to conquer all of Aisa and into Western Europe because of their awesome cavalry archers! Has anybody heard anything about the strength of the cavalry archers of Kublai Kahn?
personally i think the mongols greatest weapon was the fear they spread... however, that had no effect on the Japanese defenders when they tried to invade Japan via Kyushu in 1274 and 1281. in fact... men were racing each other in order to get there first!!
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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu
Anjin-san
07-10-2001, 09:32
About the mongol heavy cavalry being so strong, where does this come from? If it's from the screen shots then I may have an answer. If it's from other sources, then I don't know.
Anyway, I noticed the screen shots also and was impressed with their amount of kills. However, I noticed in several of my campaign battles when I used my cavalry -yari- to chase down the fleeing enemy(when they didn't get slaughtered by the route bug) I racked up hundreds of kills. That may explain the big kills they get. Anyone agree?
Koga No Goshi
07-10-2001, 12:57
I agree Anjinsan. It's totally impossible to tell anything about their strengths or weaknesses by just looking at a kills sheet. No idea what they were fighting or if they routed the enemy near the front of the map and chased them down all the way to the back of the map.
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Koga no Goshi
"Insolent Horses!!!!"
BakaGaijin
07-10-2001, 14:43
Mongol Cavalry are legendary throughout history as being one of the most fearsome fighting forces ever. This is why the Mongol Cavalry in the expansion are designed to be feared. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Vanya: True. Nodachi do take lots of damage, but that's why you flank with them. You may lose half the Nodachi, but the unit of Cavalry will be utterly decimated. That comes out to a huge koku advantage. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
Really, I don't like Monks much, but I was just using them as a convenient example.
Kraellin
07-10-2001, 20:14
i've proved time and again that i'm not much of a historian, but my impression of the mongols was that they were more or less like an early form of the german blitzkreig. they moved fast and hit hard against unsuspecting defenders and generally just sweept thru an area and moved on. they almost always employed superior numbers and technology (the horses, in this case) and just overran everything they encountered. it wasnt until the germans went after the russians and hit the early winter muds and then the full russian winter that the blitzkreig broke down. perhaps then, we'll see a new terrain feature in the expack...mud! ;)
K.
BakaGaijin
07-12-2001, 05:23
The problem being that mud wouldn't provide as much of a problem for the Mongols as it was for the Germans. Horses don't have gears to get mucked up and spears don't have intricate actions to get jammed.
Also, I think that they Blitzkrieg comparison is accurate. The conception that the Mongols were purely nomadic raiders is somewhat false, though. Mongols actually bothered to usurp the local governments wherever they went and completely crush military resistance behind them, instead of just stealing what they could and moving (which they also did, of course). It's just that they never "occupied" their conquered territories in the sense of maintaining a military presence. I think that fear of another Mongol raid was enough to keep most conquered peoples in line. http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/wink.gif
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