Price of a Hog

[Vuk]

Hey all, I was wondering if anyone knew the average price for a large hog (at least 100lbs) in the Midwest or where I could find such information out. I am talking about live animals, not pork cuts.

[Lemur]

See if this (http://agebb.missouri.edu/mkt/bull7c.htm) or this (http://agebb.missouri.edu/mkt/bull1c.htm) is any use.

[drone]

And here I was thinking this would be about the ridiculous costs of Harley Davidsons.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Walk outside and ask a farmer.

[Vuk]

See if this (http://agebb.missouri.edu/mkt/bull7c.htm) or this (http://agebb.missouri.edu/mkt/bull1c.htm) is any use.

Sweet, only between $50 and $100! Perfect! Thanks.

[Lemur]

Sweet, only between $50 and $100! Perfect! Thanks.
Hang on, those prices are $/cwt. What's a cwt? I don't know. But I do not believe a full-grown, healthy hog can be had for under $100, I think that's wrong.

[Vuk]

Hang on, those prices are $/cwt. What's a cwt? I don't know. But I do not believe a full-grown, healthy hog can be had for under $100, I think that's wrong.

It means per 100 lbs I think, and I am looking for ~100lb hogs, so that would be the right price per hog.

[Double A]

... why are you looking for a 100 pound hog?

[Vuk]

... why are you looking for a 100 pound hog?

Amateur ballistics tests. :P Put it down, hang it up, shoot it and examine the wounds. Compare some M855s to a some 7.62×51MMs at different ranges, and then put the results on a video and upload it to Youtube.

[drone]

What's a cwt? I don't know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centum_weight

I love obscure agricultural units of measure.

[Hosakawa Tito]

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/hoppy84/pig.jpg

This one doesn't have back legs, maybe you can get it cheaper.

[PanzerJaeger]

Amateur ballistics tests. :P Put it down, hang it up, shoot it and examine the wounds. Compare some M855s to a some 7.62×51MMs at different ranges, and then put the results on a video and upload it to Youtube.

If you're testing wounding effects, you'll want to anesthetize the animal instead of killing it before you conduct the test, as terminal ballistics change dramatically between living and deceased bodies. You'll also want more than one animal, as the wounding effects of additional shots after the first will be impacted by the previous shot (unless you're specifically testing multiple shot wound damage). You may also want to check with your local animal control office, as such testing in a non-academic environment could very well run afoul of animal cruelty laws.

[Fragony]

Geez I wonder why

[Strike For The South]

Waste of good meat considering you dont know what the hell you're doing

[Sarmatian]

Why? You take the bullets out and you eat it afterwards.

[CountArach]

If you're testing wounding effects, you'll want to anesthetize the animal instead of killing it before you conduct the test, as terminal ballistics change dramatically between living and deceased bodies. You'll also want more than one animal, as the wounding effects of additional shots after the first will be impacted by the previous shot (unless you're specifically testing multiple shot wound damage). You may also want to check with your local animal control office, as such testing in a non-academic environment could very well run afoul of animal cruelty laws.
I sincerely hope that this is some sort of sick joke that is deeply veiled in dark humour. Though I fear that it is not.

[Husar]

I sincerely hope that this is some sort of sick joke that is deeply veiled in dark humour. Though I fear that it is not.

Looks like facts to me.

But PJ doesn't appear like the green animal lawyer type to me anyway.
Not that I'm a strong animal rights person myself, but shooting some pigs just to look at the wound channels to prove a point for forum discussions seems a bit sick to me as well.

For one you could just find some research that has already been done.
And secondly there is also ballistic gel (or whatever it's called) that simulates the properties of the human body very well for such tests, so why not use that?

[PanzerJaeger]

I sincerely hope that this is some sort of sick joke that is deeply veiled in dark humour. Though I fear that it is not.

Nope, that is how terminal ballistics are tested. The gels that Husar mentioned are a more common these days, but there is no substitute for pig flesh in replicating wounding effects on humans other than, well, real humans.

While the idea of spending my Saturday afternoon tying pigs up and shooting them to take pictures isn't my idea of a good time, the animals are bred for slaughter - if not on Vuk's range than in a slaughterhouse somewhere. As long as they are properly anesthetized and then put down in a manner that avoids pain and distress, I have a hard time mustering much righteous indignation over the matter.

Although as Husar mentioned, there have been plenty of these tests conducted in far more controlled settings - so I'm not sure what the goal here is, other than biology class dissection type hands on experience. The 5.56 is dependent on velocity and the resulting fragmentation for wounding while the 7.62 relies more on traditional energy transfer. If you look hard enough, you can even find plenty of human examples. Warning: Ridiculously Graphic Pictures. (http://www.timawa.net/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=1af6db133b2ea1bf4c3349c4de4d9c65&topic=17111.0)

[drone]

I sincerely hope that this is some sort of sick joke that is deeply veiled in dark humour. Though I fear that it is not.
I imagine the intent is to have a functioning circulatory system during the test, without the rigor.

[Husar]

Those are some serious wounds, PJ.

Only problem with that link is that half the posts ay wirtten sa isang wika na hindi ko maaaring basahin.

No need to buy and shoot hogs anymore though.

Not that shooting one hog would necessarily lead to a reliable result anyway, you'd have to buy a hundred and then apply some statistics.
Easier and cheaper to look it up on the innernet.

[Kagemusha]

You nasty Westerners using your nastry 5.45mm fragmenting rounds, though the easterners are using it themselves also. Our good ole 7.62 X 39 cartridge in Finnish assault rifles is outright humane compared to these twister bullets that maim you all over inside turning,twisting and fragmenting. The 7.62 goes straight right through you most of the time and unless hitting a vital organ, the target has good change of survival. Ofcourse it goes bit better through all kind of bushes and branches our forests tend to have more then enough, in the shooters LOS compared to the smaller caliber rounds.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Why? You take the bullets out and you eat it afterwards.

Unlikely, Vuk will (presumably) be doing body shots, and unless he's a sniper he's going to hit nasty stuff like the digestive organs. You can't eat meat after that, it's poluted.

This is a waste of time and pig.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I just ran out of bacon and now Vuk is going to be wasting 100 pounds of it. Sigh.

[Beskar]

And I thought this would be about Vuk taking up motorcycling. Instead it is basically bloodsport. :cry:

[CountArach]

While the idea of spending my Saturday afternoon tying pigs up and shooting them to take pictures isn't my idea of a good time, the animals are bred for slaughter - if not on Vuk's range than in a slaughterhouse somewhere.
I understand that but at the same time at least at the slaughterhouse there is a modicum of humanity in its treatment - this is just downright patently ridiculous and has no scrap of decency about it. It is just outright barbaric.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I understand that but at the same time at least at the slaughterhouse there is a modicum of humanity in its treatment - this is just downright patently ridiculous and has no scrap of decency about it. It is just outright barbaric.

There isn't really a "humane" way to kill an animal. Practically, I have to agree with PJ, if the Hog is properly doped he isn't going to suffer any more than at the slaughterhouse, probably less because during slaughter they use a bolt gun.

[Vuk]

Ok, I see there are some concerns, so let me answer them. First of all, I am not even sure I am gonna do any tests. I am simply looking into the possibility. I am reading up as much as I can on the subject, and am looking at existing tests. So far I have found them all to be lacking in certain areas, and thus had the idea to test variables that they did not. Of course I will do my research and make sure I am not breaking laws.
As far as animal cruelty goes, there is nothing cruel about killing an animal. I have butchered tons of animals for meat before, as well as killed plenty of animals hunting; how is this any different? I know how to give an animal a quick, clean, relatively painless death. (nothing like a 12 gauge slug to the base of the neck for this)
I have not decided what materials I will use for any test I do or the nature of the tests, I was just looking into one possibility. I understand that some people may think that killing an animal to test the effectiveness of certain rounds under certain conditions may be wrong, but just think, what I learn will then help me to kill other animals more humanely when I hunt! ~;)
You know, in nature no predator is concerned about their suffering, so they are a heck of a lot better off dying for something like this than how they would die in nature. Have you ever seen a rabbit after a coyote got it? Crotch and stomach ripped apart, innards emptied after he stuck his snout in there and pulled everything out. Definitely not a pretty picture. So Count Arach, go tell it to the wolves and coyotes, not me. I kill, but I don't kill unnecessarily and I kill humanely and try to minimize any suffering. (Yes, I consider research necessary) That is a much better shake than what they would get otherwise.

[Major Robert Dump]

You have issues.

The research has already been done. You will not get any sort of permit to do this unless you have a university or commercial backing. Posting it on YouTube will cause you some problems, and probably would get yanked anyhow.

Also, 100 pounds does not qualify as a "large" hog.

I just find it amusing that someone who is concerned about the price of a hog (in other words, you are broke) is planning on getting a live one and firing rounds at it all in the name of acedemia.

[Tellos Athenaios]

There isn't really a "humane" way to kill an animal. Practically, I have to agree with PJ, if the Hog is properly doped he isn't going to suffer any more than at the slaughterhouse, probably less because during slaughter they use a bolt gun.

Which is designed so that it will knock out the brains at once, which is both a lot less messy and more “humane” than letting it bleed half to death. The trauma of slaughterhouses is in the transport and attending stress, not the actual killing.

[Fragony]

Which is designed so that it will knock out the brains at once, which is both a lot less messy and more “humane” than letting it bleed half to death. The trauma of slaughterhouses is in the transport and attending stress, not the actual killing.

Says who, they can smell the blood, they know what is happening

[Hax]

and attending stress

Isn't this what you mean?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Which is designed so that it will knock out the brains at once, which is both a lot less messy and more “humane” than letting it bleed half to death. The trauma of slaughterhouses is in the transport and attending stress, not the actual killing.


Says who, they can smell the blood, they know what is happening

I'm sorry, but I agree with Frag, and in any case what they don't show you on documentaries is the bit between the bolt gun and the actual slaughter. Often as not the gun doesn't work properly, and the animal either regains conciousness or, at best, starts fitting.

The only way to "knock out" a brain is to starve it with oxygen, and that only happens once the bloodflow stops, when they're dead.

Killing is nasty, I'm been involved in slaughter a couple of times and it makes me feel pretty sick, but that's mostly because I'm trying to imagine what it would feel like for me.

[Beskar]

I think this topic served it's original purpose at least. If you want to continue into the subject of animal cruelty, please feel free to open a new topic on the subject matter. :bow: