RPG anyone?

[Nightbringer]

Lords of the Danube.

A Hungarian RPG using SS 6.4


Here is a brief summary of the overall structure of the game.

Each players funds will be tracked separately. They will receive income equal to whatever settlement they own, and pay for whatever forces they control. Each player would declare their expenses, and the sum income of their provinces, and keep a tab of their funds each time they submit their save. Players who go into debt may risk having soldiers in their pay rebel, depending on the amount and length of the dept.

Any characters without a province may be adopted by another player, who will pay all of their expenses. If no player adopts them, they will have no income, and will have to earn a title if they wish to support troops. They may still be put in charge of troops if another player allows it.

Currently, every character but one control's a province, and the King controls two. This leftover character would count as "adopted" by the King (although the King player may cancel this if he wishes), and could be given control of either of the two provinces the King controls if the King wishes it so.

As for the setting, the game is starting in 1222, the year Hungarian nobles historically forced the King to sign the Golden Bull. This was the result of a short uprising, and effectively gave the Hungarian nobility much greater freedom from the King. I intend to create several rebel armies in Hungarian lands to represent the leftovers of this revolt, and the player characters represent appeased, although not necessarily happy, nobles who have re-aligned with the King now that he has signed this bull.

Also significant, Hungary has just recently liberated Constantinople from the Cuman Khanate, part of their long war with the Pagan nation. The city is currently under de-facto ownership of the King, as the general who captured the city died in the siege without leaving a clear heir, but it is a prize that is certainly worth argument for. I hope that this, the remnants of the civil war, and the war with the Cumans should provide plenty to keep people busy right from the start.



Myth - King Pozsony
Duke of Varad, and nominal ruler of Constantinople
Titles: King
Funds:1000
Armies: the garrisons of Varad and Constantinople, the army led by Mikan a Bogatradvany nembol
Vassal: Mikan a Bogatradvany nembol

Phonicsmonkey -Junior King Bokeny
Junior King
Titles: Duke of Zagreb
funds:1000
Armies: the garrison of Zagreb

House Stark - Vata a Kacsics nembol
Emir of Targoviste
Titles: Lord High Marshall
Funds: 1000
Armies: the garrison of Targoviste

Zim- Demeter az Aba nembol
Duke of Kassa
Titles: Master of the Horse
Funds: 1000
Armies: the garrison of Kassa


Other Characters

Bokony a Huntpaznan nembol
Duke of Brasov
Titles: Palatine

Andras a Zah nembol
Duke of Sofia

Mikan a Bogatradvany nembol
Vassal of the King


Enemies
The Cuman Khanate
The Fatimid Caliphate
The Golden Horde

Allies
The Republic of Genoa
The Kingdom of Denmark
The Grand Duchy of Kiev



Game Rules

1. Mod and Game Settings
1.1 Stainless Steel 6.4
1.1a Early Era Campaign
1.1b Savage Ai
1.1c BYG’s Grim Reality II
1.2 Very Hard Battles
1.3 Very Hard Campaign
1.4 Manage all Settlements
1.5 Defensive Battles Enabled
1.6 Battle Timer On
1.7 Hotseat Game

2. General Rules
2.1 Transported units may not exceed 2 times the number of ships in the fleet
2.2 “Merchant forts” may not be used
2.3 Agents may be destroyed by surrounding them with armies (represents extensive military operation to root out and kill the agent. Be warned, the GM shall ensure that other factions react to this as a hostile action
2.4 Do not exploit the naval movement bug

3. The Game Master
3.1 Nightbringer is the Game Master (GM)
3.2 If Nightbringer can no longer be the GM, or if >50% of the players vote for him to step down, a new GM may be chosen by player vote
3.3 The GM will not take control of a character
3.4 The GM has the right to (and likely will) exert any amount of control deemed appropriate over non-player factions in the game

4. The Save
4.1 Only the GM may end the turn, unless permission is specifically given to a player.
4.2 The save shall be named in the following format: game name_turn #_# of players who have played turn
4.3 Players shall have 48 hours to player their turn after the save has been uploaded
4.4 The GM shall have 24 hours after this to return the save to the players
4.5 A player shall have 24 hours to play any defensive battles
4.6 After playing a defensive battle, the player must save the game immediately and return the save to the GM
4.6a Due to the lack of turn scrolls, a faction’s turn may begin after a defensive battle, if this is the case, the player should not take any action or look at this faction’s position. Doing so will only decrease that player’s enjoyment of the game.

Player Rules
5. Role-play
5.1 Players are encouraged, but not required, to write battle reports and other in context (IC) stories
5.2 Players should post only IC posts in IC threads
5.3 Players should post only out of context (OOC) posts in OOC threads
5.4 Lies and other “immoral actions” performed IC should not be held against the player, and should be regarded as purely the action of their character

6. Battles
6.1 Players should play out all battles since auto resolve may be used to exploit horse archer armies, or prevent general death
6.2 Players should refrain from using Ai exploits as much as possible, this will not be enforced, but using exploits will only serve to break player immersion in the game

7. Finances
7.1 The faction money total should be ignored, if more money is required to meet individual finances, the GM shall add it
7.2 No money is owned by the faction
7.3 Every character has a personal supply of money
7.4 A character’s money supply is determined as such
7.4a At the beginning of the game, each character starts with 1000 florins.
7.4b Any new character will start with 1000 florins
7.4c During the turn, the cost of any unit, ship, agent, or building recruited/constructed by a character will be deducted from that characters funds
7.4d At the end of every turn, the total upkeep of all units, ships, and agents a character owns and the cost of any deals/agreements will be deducted from that character’s funds
7.4e At the end of every turn, the total income from all provinces a character owns, the income from any merchants that character owns, and their income from any deals/agreements will be added to that character’s funds
7.4f The King also adds the King’s purse to their income
7.4f If a character’s funds would drop into the negative they instead stay at zero
7.7 If a player fails to deliver a report, the GM will do it for them, but repeated offence may be grounds for expulsion from the game
7.8 Each player must declare where their money is kept, this may be either a province or with their character, this location may be changed at the end of any turn (unless it is within a besieged province)
7.9 If the province where a character keeps their money belongs to another player, that player may seize the entire sum whenever desired
7.10 If the province where a character keeps their money is captured by an enemy faction, 75% of the money is lots, while the other 25% is allocated to a new location by that character’s player
7.11 If a character who is keeping their money with them is defeated in battle, 50% of their money is lost.
7.12 Any financial deals with other factions must be paid by characters, but the expenses can be divided as desired between characters.
7.13 If a character refuses to pay their part of a deal with another faction, the GM will ensure that the faction responds appropriately to the lack of payment.
7.14 Any character may make private deals with other factions through the GM
7.15 Characters may transfer money between each-other as desired according to the following rules
7.15a The player giving money deducts the transferred money from their funds in their end of turn financial report
7.16b The player who is receiving money adds that to their income in their end of turn financial report
7.16c This means that the receiving player is not able to see this money till their next turn
7.16 Each player is responsible for delivering an accurate report of their finances to the GM every turn, either in private or in public when they post the save

8. Property
8.1 Nothing is owned by the faction
8.2 Every province, unit, ship, and agent is owned by a single character
8.2a Anything owned by a character may only be controlled by that character’s player, unless that player gives express permission to another
8.3 Provinces, units, ships, and agents will be allocated to characters at the start of the game by the GM
8.4 Units, agents, ships, and buildings may only be recruited/built in a province by the owner of that province, from that character’s personal funds
8.5 Units, agents, and ships recruited in a province are owned by that province’s owner
8.5a Any recruited, adopted, or born generals become the property their adoptee, recruiter, or oldest male relative, or of the King if this is not possible to determine, until they are controlled by a player
8.6 The owner of a province may allow another character to recruit/build in his province, or to take ownership of units built in that province
8.7 A character may only recruit/build as much as he has funds to pay for
8.8 A character may only recruit a number of agents equal to the number his provinces support (i.e., a character owning 1 province with 1 church may only recruit a single priest)
8.9 Each player is responsible for keeping track of which units, agents, ships, and provinces belong to him/her, any disputes will be resolved by GM decree
8.10 The owner of any unit, ship, or agent, is responsible for paying the upkeep of that unit/ship/agent
8.11 If the owner is unable to pay the upkeep for units during a turn, the GM has the right to take any action with these units between turns, and may remove or give ownership of the unit/ship/agent as wished
8.12 The owner of any unit, ship, agent, or province may transfer that property to another player in their end of turn financial report, as per the rules for money transfer
8.13 Any new settlements conquered become property of the character whose troops (or agent, if bribe) conquered this settlement
8.14 Any bribed troops become the property of that diplomat’s owner
8.15 Princesses are automatically the property (in game rules only, not in an ethical sense) of their oldest male relative, or of the King if this is not possible to determine.

In context rules
These rules are all to be regarded as in context, and may be broken by players at will, with only in context consequences as penalty


Currently existing Titles

The Palatine (in game, Lord High Chancellor)
The principal manager of the King's properties (no game effect), and the judge of legal matters among the nobility.
They are chosen by the King. Aside from being a high honor, this position allows the character to be the final decider in all IC legal matters. However, they would only have the right to impose penalties on the nobility with the explicit permission of the King.

Lord High Marshall
The chief commander of Hungary's armies. They are chosen by the King. This man is responsible for co-ordination of all Hungarian military efforts, and, if supported by more than half the nobility, may legalize the capture of any territory.

Master of the Horse
This man oversees the Kingdoms horse breeding and the appointment of cavalry officers. They are chosen by the Lord High Marshall. This title gives the character a slight chance of having any cavalry unit owned by an enemy turn over to him in the event of a civil war. This reflects the intimate relationships the Master of the Horse has with cavalry officers. (% chance of occurring for each unit = ((commands *s of character - command *s of unit owner) x 5). Other than this, this title has no in game effect.

Master of the Treasury (no ancillary representation)
This man is responsible for ensuring that the economy of Hungary runs smoothly, and does not leave certain critical areas underfunded. They are chosen by the King. This title makes the character responsible for overseeing financial deals between characters and with other factions, and for proposing such dealings when deemed necessary for the good of the Realm. This title allows the character to propose and accept financial deals with other factions if supported by more than half the nobility.

Lord Privy Seal
This man bears the private seal of the King, and is chosen by the King. This title is a great honor the King may bestow upon a character, and the title only exists when the King wishes it to. However, their is no direct benefit of having this title.

Laws of the Realm

I. The Noblemen are declared to be exempt from the payment of taxes, nor will money be collected from their treasures. Neither will their residences be occupied, nor their villages, and these may only be visited by those who have been invited. No taxes will be levied on the Church.

II. If any nobleman dies without a male heir, his daughter will receive a quarter of his funds (disappear from game); the remainder of his property shall pass into the hands of his closest living relative; if this is not possible, then the King shall inherit them.

III. If the King wishes to send his armies outside of the Kingdom the Noblemen will not be under obligation to go with him, if the monarch doesn't pay them. However if an invading army enters in the Kingdom, all of them must serve to expel it.

IV. The Hungarian Palatine may judge everyone in the Kingdom without any differentiation; but he cannot try any nobleman without the King's approval.

V. Hungarian properties cannot be given to foreigners.

VI. No title (offices, not dukedoms or the like) or public charge can be inherited.

VII. No character may hold more than a single title.

VIII. No settlement may be taken without the permission of the King.

IX. No war may be started without the permission of the King.

X. No financial deals with other factions may be made without the permission of the King.

XI No man may lay claim to a settlement unless it is given to him by the King.

[phonicsmonkey]

You should allow multiple options

[Nightbringer]

hmm, good point, but I don't seem to be able to edit the poll...
I figured only allowing one would let me see the number of people interested.

[phonicsmonkey]

Ok I picked Rusichi as Hungary, but I would also have picked:
- Rusichi as other faction
-Stainless Steel as Hungary
- Stainless Steel as other faction

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I picked Stainless Steel game as other faction. There have never been any RPG-s as one of the Muslim factions. Would like to see one. ~:)

[phonicsmonkey]

I picked Stainless Steel game as other faction. There have never been any RPG-s as one of the Muslim factions. Would like to see one. ~:)

Me too! In fact I would love to see a game as the Abbasid Caliphate in Broken Crescent. I have a deep and abiding love for that faction. Maybe in one of the older versions though, I hear the newest cut isn't that good.

welcome back The King, am I right in saying you were a throne roomie long ago and before my time?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I was a throne roomie once, yes, but not that long ago.. I just changed my name.. ~;)

Edit: I have also wanted to see a RPG using Broken Crescent mod.

[phonicsmonkey]

hey IK, I didn't recognise you! Nice to see you.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

It's good to be back!

[Zim]

I voted forSS game as Spain (Americas campaign could be interesting as well) but I'd be up for any of them, with a preference of a faction either on the periphery of Europe or outside it.

[Nightbringer]

I think the Abbasid Caliphate game sounds like a lot of fun, and have always wanted to try Broken Crescent.

[phonicsmonkey]

I think the Abbasid Caliphate game sounds like a lot of fun, and have always wanted to try Broken Crescent.

Hmm, I wonder if we could just play on from the final save of Commanders of the Faithful - it would be good because there would be a whole history there already for the world and the characters in it, as well as a pretty challenging starting position with both the Seljuks and the Rajputs very powerful..

it's also in probably the best version of Broken Crescent, v1.05

[Nightbringer]

Hmm, I wonder if we could just play on from the final save of Commanders of the Faithful - it would be good because there would be a whole history there already for the world and the characters in it, as well as a pretty challenging starting position with both the Seljuks and the Rajputs very powerful..

it's also in probably the best version of Broken Crescent, v1.05

I think that could be fun, but I see two problems.

1. Where is it possible to download BC v1.05?

2. The history of the game could be prohibitive to having new people join in. New players would have to red up on things, and might not feel any particular love for those events. Additionally, players might miss some factions that have been eliminated.

I would be game for it if people want it though.

[Nightbringer]

From downloading and looking at Rusichi some more, it looks like playing as Hungary in it could be inadvisable, as it seems like they left hungary pretty bare bones and the scripts is all about the Russian factions.
I would be quite excited to do a game in it as one of those three however, especially if the rebellion script works as advertised.

I also downloaded BC 2.3 and took a look. The battles and graphics seem quite nice, but I haven't had time to really test out the campaign yet. I think the Abbayids would be a nice choice for that as they have a good central position, various enemies, and cool units.

[Myth]

I'd only ever join something that uses the 100 years war as a setting, and only if the admin plays the opposing faction. I disliked KotN because mostly we sat around bickering about laws and edicts and some of the people didn't even see what consequences those would have, but they voted anyway. We spent a lot of time groveling before the player who was Basileos and too little time putting up a joint effort of fighting the enemy. Everyone was concerned with getting the most money for their character, be it via trade or lands, or sacking etc. instead of actually doing something worthwhile. The basileos included.

I'm not sure how the other RPGs progressed but if that's what they're all about I'll pass.

[phonicsmonkey]

I think that could be fun, but I see two problems.

1. Where is it possible to download BC v1.05?

2. The history of the game could be prohibitive to having new people join in. New players would have to red up on things, and might not feel any particular love for those events. Additionally, players might miss some factions that have been eliminated.

I would be game for it if people want it though.

I had thought it would enrich the experience to have a backstory but you may be right. I would be happy to write a truncated version of it with links to the major stories, if people are interested in exploring the idea. The starting map would be this one here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?99702-Broken-Crescent-Hotseat-Commanders-of-the-Faithful&p=2321960&viewfull=1#post2321960).

Also I think I have bc1.05 burned to a cd here somewhere....apparently the newer versions are kinda wack with annoying things like dirt roads costing way too much and factions having unreasonably small AOR.

[Nightbringer]

I'd only ever join something that uses the 100 years war as a setting, and only if the admin plays the opposing faction. I disliked KotN because mostly we sat around bickering about laws and edicts and some of the people didn't even see what consequences those would have, but they voted anyway. We spent a lot of time groveling before the player who was Basileos and too little time putting up a joint effort of fighting the enemy. Everyone was concerned with getting the most money for their character, be it via trade or lands, or sacking etc. instead of actually doing something worthwhile. The basileos included.

I'm not sure how the other RPGs progressed but if that's what they're all about I'll pass.

I don't have a ton of experience with RPG's, but my goal would be to present the players with a significant challenge from the ai factions, controlled in part by myself, so that they must work together to defeat the enemy, while simultaneously navigating the political system and trying to get their avatar ahead without letting the faction fall apart.

In terms of game, would people be more interested in general with mods they already have, (everyone seems to have SS and kingdoms for example), or would people enjoy going for the exotic mods like Rusichi or BC?

Is the added depth for those specific factions worth downloading and installing more stuff to you guys?

[Nightbringer]

I had thought it would enrich the experience to have a backstory but you may be right. I would be happy to write a truncated version of it with links to the major stories, if people are interested in exploring the idea. The starting map would be this one here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?99702-Broken-Crescent-Hotseat-Commanders-of-the-Faithful&p=2321960&viewfull=1#post2321960).

Also I think I have bc1.05 burned to a cd here somewhere....apparently the newer versions are kinda wack with annoying things like dirt roads costing way too much and factions having unreasonably small AOR.

That looks like a fun map to play off if people don't mind downloading BC 1.05 from your CD. :)

[Myth]

What's wrong with Kievan Rus / Novgorod in SS? I might be up for that. Never played Rusichi but the mod has been abandoned (check the TWC) and those mods that focus on one or two factions usually are very biased.

If you want hard, set up a SS 6.4 game with RR/RC, longer assimilation and BGR IV, we won't last 10 turns :laugh4:

[ArcturUs]

I voted for SS game with any other faction, but, I wouldn't mind if the polls went in favor of spain.

[Myth]

BTW I think Europa Barbarorum is awesome and all that, but the names are really off-putting for me. As I said, it's getting tiring to lead armies of "Aslkleziordify Warriors" and your characters being named "Zoltanskrotiyoy"

How about a good ol RTW RPG? OR a BI RPG as the Western Roman Empire? That should be a fun one, with the Huns and ERE trying to kill us, and half of the avatars being pagan and the other half - Christian.

[Nightbringer]

BTW I think Europa Barbarorum is awesome and all that, but the names are really off-putting for me. As I said, it's getting tiring to lead armies of "Aslkleziordify Warriors" and your characters being named "Zoltanskrotiyoy"

How about a good ol RTW RPG? OR a BI RPG as the Western Roman Empire? That should be a fun one, with the Huns and ERE trying to kill us, and half of the avatars being pagan and the other half - Christian.

I would enjoy a BI RPG, and there is a mod that spruces it up a little without going overboard, its called The Fall of Rome. (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1347)

I think BGR IV might get in the way of the players, and it is sounding like SS 6.4 as one of the factions from the east side of the map is the most popular.

Unless anyone speaks up for something else, how about SS 6.4 with BGR II as one of the following three.

Fatimid Caliphate

Hungary

Novgorod

[Myth]

I am prepared to give a long speech of how to restore the glory of Rome and to reject this new meek religion of Christos, and instead to follow Jupiter and Mars to the bright future of a new, larger and stronger Roman Empire!

In other words, I really, REALLY want a BI game (or TFOR) In fact, that mod looks all kinds of awesome. The only thing is that it's not mod-foldered, but it's not like I'm playing much BI anyway.

[phonicsmonkey]

I'd be up for any of those suggested SS games

[Nightbringer]

I am prepared to give a long speech of how to restore the glory of Rome and to reject this new meek religion of Christos, and instead to follow Jupiter and Mars to the bright future of a new, larger and stronger Roman Empire!

In other words, I really, REALLY want a BI game (or TFOR) In fact, that mod looks all kinds of awesome. The only thing is that it's not mod-foldered, but it's not like I'm playing much BI anyway.

Well, you can always just copy past your RTW folder if you've got the hard drive space, that's what i did. In fact, I believe I have 4 RTW folders on my comp.

We have one advocate of BI (Myth), and several people who have expressed interest in a SS game. If anyone else wants to try the BI game let me know, otherwise I will pick one of those 3 SS factions and start drafting rules later this week.

[Myth]

I'm up for SS as well. Perhaps just with RR and Longer Assimilation, and leaving BGR out? It has a steep learning curve and doesn't really benefit RPing all that much. The Admin can just create/move some enemy stacks to make it harder for us.

Also, fast-forwarding would be great with RR on. Oherwise say hi to 180 turns of spear militia and peasant archers. Perhaps using one of the WotK saves Monkey has? Though those have the Ai scripts disabled and that's going to make the AI suck.

I can fast-forward a game for you if Monkey tells me how to make it stop at the year 1280 or something.

[phonicsmonkey]

I can fast-forward a game for you if Monkey tells me how to make it stop at the year 1280 or something.

The only way to stop it at a particular year is to set one of the emergent factions to human control so the game stops when they are spawned. Mongols and TO are around the same time, Timurids later.

Otherwise it's just guesswork - logging into the console while the wheel is spinning and setting a random faction to human control so the game stops and you can check the year.

[Nightbringer]

The only way to stop it at a particular year is to set one of the emergent factions to human control so the game stops when they are spawned. Mongols and TO are around the same time, Timurids later.

Otherwise it's just guesswork - logging into the console while the wheel is spinning and setting a random faction to human control so the game stops and you can check the year.

Sure, it should create some interesting situations. Let it stop at whatever random year, send me the save, and I will take a look and decide the faction and draft some rules.

Just make sure it is a hotseat game as I intend to control some of the other factions. Also, you will have to tell me how to change or set the admin password for the console as I have never done that before.

[phonicsmonkey]

Sure, it should create some interesting situations. Let it stop at whatever random year, send me the save, and I will take a look and decide the faction and draft some rules.

Just make sure it is a hotseat game as I intend to control some of the other factions. Also, you will have to tell me how to change or set the admin password for the console as I have never done that before.

The admin password is set in the preferences file and is fixed once you start the game (ie. it cannot be subsequently changed)

So for security reasons it would be best for you to try to set it up yourself (otherwise someone else would know your console pw) - it's very easy and there's a step-by-step guide in the FAQ thread.

Then you'd just start a hotseat with one human faction, then switch that faction to Ai control using the console and the game will start to run in autopilot until you stop it by logging in and switching any faction to human control.

Let me know if you need help with anything.

[Nightbringer]

The admin password is set in the preferences file and is fixed once you start the game (ie. it cannot be subsequently changed)

So for security reasons it would be best for you to try to set it up yourself (otherwise someone else would know your console pw) - it's very easy and there's a step-by-step guide in the FAQ thread.

Then you'd just start a hotseat with one human faction, then switch that faction to Ai control using the console and the game will start to run in autopilot until you stop it by logging in and switching any faction to human control.

Let me know if you need help with anything.

Sounds easy enough, I will do it tomorrow night. I shouldn't use up my time on it before my finals tomorrow.

[Myth]

What are finals compared to M2:TW?

[Nightbringer]

okay, I've got it up and running, will have to check on it in a while.

[Nightbringer]

Okay, I have got a save that I think will work quite well for a Hungarian game.

Feel free to download and take a look at the save here. (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9759)

If I get at least 3 players interested in doing a Hungarian game off that save, I will make a draft of the rules for people to look over.

Here are my ideas about rules and setting so far.

http://www.cai.org/files/images/teaching-pages/heritage/hu/hungary-1.jpg

I am considering is tracking each players funds separately. They will receive income equal to whatever settlement they own (are duke or whatever of), and pay for whatever forces they control, starting with whatever is literally inside their province. Each player would declare their expenses, and the sum income of their provinces, and keep a tab of their funds each time they submit their save. Players who go into debt may risk having soldiers in their pay rebel, depending no the amount and length of the dept.

Any characters without a province may be adopted by another player, who will pay all of their expenses. If no player adopts them, they will have no income, and will have to earn a title if they wish to support troops. They may still be put in charge of troops if another player allows it.

Currently, every character but one control's a province, and the King controls two. This leftover character would count as "adopted" by the King (although the King player may cancel this if he wishes), and could be given control of either of the two provinces the King controls if the King wishes it so.

As for civil wars, I will attempt to simulate civil wars at appropriate times through the use of rebel armies, but in the event of player vs. player battles, I think I will attempt to use a "tabletop game" version of the battle, where I send players involved a map, and then send me their deployment, and general orders for the battle. I would then play out the battle as fairly as possible, and declare a winner.

As for the setting, the game is starting in 1222, the year Hungarian nobles historically forced the King to sign the Golden Bull. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Bull_of_1222) This was the result of a short uprising, and effectively gave the Hungarian nobility much greater freedom from the King. I intend to create several rebel armies in Hungarian lands to represent the leftovers of this revolt, and the player characters represent appeased, although not necessarily happy, nobles who have re-aligned with the King now that he has signed this bull.

Also significant, Hungary has just recently liberated Constantinople from the Cuman Khanate, part of their long war with the Pagan nation. The city is currently under de-facto ownership of the King, as the general who captured the city died in the siege without leaving a clear heir, but it is a prize that is certainly worth argument for. I hope that this, the remnants of the civil war, and the war with the Cumans should provide plenty to keep people busy right from the start.

[ArcturUs]

@Night All is well, but I couldn't get the player vs player battle thing. Could you explain more about it?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I think he is thinking tabletop battles like they were played out in previous RPG games. For example The Battle of the Iron Bridge (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?115096-The-Battle-of-the-Iron-Bridge) from LotR(Last of the Romans).

[phonicsmonkey]

Looks and sounds great NB, count me in!

I like the starting position - we have a decent income, we're only at war with one neighbouring faction but we have a couple of precarious and valuable outposts in Zagreb and Constantinople, we're in decent nick with the Pope and we have some sizable armies to play with. My only concern is that we only have two family members, so we'd have to be really careful in case we suddenly became extinct...

[Nightbringer]

@Night All is well, but I couldn't get the player vs player battle thing. Could you explain more about it?

Looking it it more closely, I think what I was trying to say might be a bit too complicated and time consuming. Instead, I propose resolving player vs. player battles as follows.

Lets say there are two player led armies which wish to fight.

army A is composed of
1 general (G)
1 unit of knights (K)
2 units of horse archer (H)
1 ~ half unit of horse archer (h)
4 units of spear militia (S)
1 ~ half unit of spear militia (s)
2 units of archers (A)
and 1 catapult (C)

the player of army A would send me a pm of his deployment, with EEEEE representing the general location of the enemy army.
(letters represent units, and may be whatever the players choose to assign those units, as long as it is a single character)

lets say player A sent me this as his deployment.

EEEEEEEEEEE


SSSS K HHh
s CAA G

He is telling me that he is deploying his spear militia opposite his opponent, extra thick on the left, with his knights and horse archers off to the right, and archers and catapult behind his spear men.

He might also include something like. "The spear line holds while the knights engage enemy cavalry and horse archers try to get behind opponent."

Player B would send me similar instructions.


I would then, based on these deployment, and the player orders, attempt to play out the battle as accurately as possible. It would not be the most accurate system, but there really isn't any good way to deal with PvP as far as I know, and my experience with historical battles and war games should give me at least a semblance of an ability to fairly decide the outcome.

[Nightbringer]

If players wish, and if PvP is a reasonably rare occurrence, we could do it in the more complex style of those previous hotseats.

[Myth]

Hmmm... Of course PvP battles as such can be very historically accurate. Espeicially if you include the baggage train, camp site, camp followers etc. Battles for the most part were rare though, during the period. Armies would do a lot more of sitting around or maneuvering, and a lot less of dying. Not that there were no exceptions however. But such battles would eliminate the battle map advantage of certain setups.

In a MP battle the guy with 19 stacks of Hungarian Nobles would curbstomp that stack you described, even tough IRL such horsemen would not be effective at breaking a larger, well rounded army.

How about we just do it the good ol' fashioned way? We roll a die at ivnisible castle or something (1d2) and just go with that. Whomever gets "heads" gets to lead the battle.

[Nightbringer]

Hmmm... Of course PvP battles as such can be very historically accurate. Espeicially if you include the baggage train, camp site, camp followers etc. Battles for the most part were rare though, during the period. Armies would do a lot more of sitting around or maneuvering, and a lot less of dying. Not that there were no exceptions however. But such battles would eliminate the battle map advantage of certain setups.

In a MP battle the guy with 19 stacks of Hungarian Nobles would curbstomp that stack you described, even tough IRL such horsemen would not be effective at breaking a larger, well rounded army.

How about we just do it the good ol' fashioned way? We roll a die at ivnisible castle or something (1d2) and just go with that. Whomever gets "heads" gets to lead the battle.

That is another possible option.

[phonicsmonkey]

Hmmm... Of course PvP battles as such can be very historically accurate. Espeicially if you include the baggage train, camp site, camp followers etc. Battles for the most part were rare though, during the period. Armies would do a lot more of sitting around or maneuvering, and a lot less of dying. Not that there were no exceptions however. But such battles would eliminate the battle map advantage of certain setups.

In a MP battle the guy with 19 stacks of Hungarian Nobles would curbstomp that stack you described, even tough IRL such horsemen would not be effective at breaking a larger, well rounded army.

How about we just do it the good ol' fashioned way? We roll a die at ivnisible castle or something (1d2) and just go with that. Whomever gets "heads" gets to lead the battle.

Bit too random for my liking. And there are dice rolls and terrain in the PvP battles which were fought in the old RPGs. They seemed to work pretty well, with detailed orders submitted by both sides at the start and at key points in the battle. Zim has more experience of them than I have but I think there was a fairly well developed and road tested rule set for them.

I certainly think they add something really special to the RPG PvP concept which you just wouldn't get by essentially flipping a coin and then massacring the AI.

The other option which hasn't been discussed is to fight a MP battle and then make the in-game adjustments to reflect the outcome. While this might be hard to arrange for every battle it could be done for the big decisive ones.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I doubt that there would be that many PvP battles so that we can't use MP to fight them out.

[Nightbringer]

Bit too random for my liking. And there are dice rolls and terrain in the PvP battles which were fought in the old RPGs. They seemed to work pretty well, with detailed orders submitted by both sides at the start and at key points in the battle. Zim has more experience of them than I have but I think there was a fairly well developed and road tested rule set for them.

I certainly think they add something really special to the RPG PvP concept which you just wouldn't get by essentially flipping a coin and then massacring the AI.

The other option which hasn't been discussed is to fight a MP battle and then make the in-game adjustments to reflect the outcome. While this might be hard to arrange for every battle it could be done for the big decisive ones.

Yet another option!
Multi-player battles would be best for accuracy, perhaps that can be the ideal, but if players are unable to do so within a reasonable time frame one of the other methods would be used.

In other words, if convenient players will fight it out in MP, otherwise, we will use the board gaem or die roll, depending on what people prefer.

[Myth]

It's nigh-on-impossible for me to get enough time on a fixed date and hour when someone in the USA or Australia will be up. Board game sounds good though, I read the account of the end for that RPG which Cecil wanted the Sigismunt von Mahren set for. It seems really detailed and nice.

[Ignoramus]

Myth, you should read the Cataclysm of KotR - one of the best things that ever occurred in the Throne Room!

[Nightbringer]

So, I believe the following people are wanting to join this game, please correct me if I am wrong.

Phonicsmonkey
Zim
The King
Myth
Ezilkannan

That should be a good number to get started, so I will start working on the rules tonight.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I'm interested. So the mod is Stainless Steel 6.4? Need to download it though..

[Nightbringer]

yes, ss 6.4

[Nightbringer]

Here is a basic set of rules for the game. I have not yet gone into in-context rules for the game (offices, laws, etc...). For those, I was hoping that people with more experience in RPG games might help me come up with good ones. I also thought it might be fun to allow them to be generated to some degree in context.
The concept of actively determining how the political structure works in context is a possibility, especially since this is a period of some amount of political reform in Hungary (with the passing of the Golden Bull), but it would be good to have some general structure lain out first.

Any feedback is appreciated!



Game Rules

1. Mod and Game Settings
1.1 Stainless Steel 6.4
1.1a Early Era Campaign
1.1b Savage Ai
1.1c BYG’s Grim Reality II
1.2 Very Hard Battles
1.3 Very Hard Campaign
1.4 Manage all Settlements
1.5 Defensive Battles Enabled
1.6 Battle Timer On
1.7 Hotseat Game

2. General Rules
2.1 Transported units may not exceed 2 times the number of ships in the fleet
2.2 “Merchant forts” may not be used
2.3 Agents may be destroyed by surrounding them with armies (represents extensive military operation to root out and kill the agent. Be warned, the GM shall ensure that other factions react to this as a hostile action
2.4 Do not exploit the naval movement bug

3. The Game Master
3.1 Nightbringer is the Game Master (GM)
3.2 If Nightbringer can no longer be the GM, or if >50% of the players vote for him to step down, a new GM may be chosen by player vote
3.3 The GM will not take control of a character
3.4 The GM has the right to (and likely will) exert any amount of control deemed appropriate over non-player factions in the game

4. The Save
4.1 Only the GM may end the turn, unless permission is specifically given to a player.
4.2 The save shall be named in the following format: game name_turn #_# of players who have played turn
4.3 Players shall have 48 hours to player their turn after the save has been uploaded
4.4 The GM shall have 24 hours after this to return the save to the players
4.5 A player shall have 24 hours to play any defensive battles
4.6 After playing a defensive battle, the player must save the game immediately and return the save to the GM
4.6a Due to the lack of turn scrolls, a faction’s turn may begin after a defensive battle, if this is the case, the player should not take any action or look at this faction’s position. Doing so will only decrease that player’s enjoyment of the game.

Player Rules
5. Role-play
5.1 Players are encouraged, but not required, to write battle reports and other in context (IC) stories
5.2 Players should post only IC posts in IC threads
5.3 Players should post only out of context (OOC) posts in OOC threads
5.4 Lies and other “immoral actions” performed IC should not be held against the player, and should be regarded as purely the action of their character

6. Battles
6.1 Players should play out all battles since auto resolve may be used to exploit horse archer armies, or prevent general death
6.2 Players should refrain from using Ai exploits as much as possible, this will not be enforced, but using exploits will only serve to break player immersion in the game

7. Finances
7.1 The faction money total should be ignored, if more money is required to meet individual finances, the GM shall add it
7.2 No money is owned by the faction
7.3 Every character has a personal supply of money
7.4 A character’s money supply is determined as such
7.4a At the beginning of the game, each character starts with 1000 florins plus the displayed combined income of any provinces they own.
7.4b Any new character will start with 1000 florins
7.4c During the turn, the cost of any unit, ship, agent, or building recruited/constructed by a character will be deducted from that characters funds
7.4d At the end of every turn, the total upkeep of all units, ships, and agents a character owns and the cost of any deals/agreements will be deducted from that character’s funds
7.4e At the end of every turn, the total income from all provinces a character owns, the income from any merchants that character owns, and their income from any deals/agreements will be added to that character’s funds
7.4f The King also adds the King’s purse to their income
7.4f If a character’s funds would drop into the negative they instead stay at zero
7.7 If a player fails to deliver a report, the GM will do it for them, but repeated offence may be grounds for expulsion from the game
7.8 Each player must declare where their money is kept, this may be either a province or with their character, this location may be changed at the end of any turn (unless it is within a besieged province)
7.9 If the province where a character keeps their money belongs to another player, that player may seize the entire sum whenever desired
7.10 If the province where a character keeps their money is captured by an enemy faction, 75% of the money is lots, while the other 25% is allocated to a new location by that character’s player
7.11 If a character who is keeping their money with them is defeated in battle, 50% of their money is lost.
7.12 Any financial deals with other factions must be paid by characters, but the expenses can be divided as desired between characters.
7.13 If a character refuses to pay their part of a deal with another faction, the GM will ensure that the faction responds appropriately to the lack of payment.
7.14 Any character may make private deals with other factions through the GM
7.15 Characters may transfer money between each-other as desired according to the following rules
7.15a The player giving money deducts the transferred money from their funds in their end of turn financial report
7.16b The player who is receiving money adds that to their income in their end of turn financial report
7.16c This means that the receiving player is not able to see this money till their next turn
7.16 Each player is responsible for delivering an accurate report of their finances to the GM every turn, either in private or in public when they post the save

8. Property
8.1 Nothing is owned by the faction
8.2 Every province, unit, ship, and agent is owned by a single character
8.2a Anything owned by a character may only be controlled by that character’s player, unless that player gives express permission to another
8.3 Provinces, units, ships, and agents will be allocated to characters at the start of the game by the GM
8.4 Units, agents, ships, and buildings may only be recruited/built in a province by the owner of that province, from that character’s personal funds
8.5 Units, agents, and ships recruited in a province are owned by that province’s owner
8.5a Any recruited, adopted, or born generals become the property their adoptee, recruiter, or oldest male relative, or of the King if this is not possible to determine, until they are controlled by a player
8.6 The owner of a province may allow another character to recruit/build in his province, or to take ownership of units built in that province
8.7 A character may only recruit/build as much as he has funds to pay for
8.8 A character may only recruit a number of agents equal to the number his provinces support (i.e., a character owning 1 province with 1 church may only recruit a single priest)
8.9 Each player is responsible for keeping track of which units, agents, ships, and provinces belong to him/her, any disputes will be resolved by GM decree
8.10 The owner of any unit, ship, or agent, is responsible for paying the upkeep of that unit/ship/agent
8.11 If the owner is unable to pay the upkeep for units during a turn, the GM has the right to take any action with these units between turns, and may remove or give ownership of the unit/ship/agent as wished
8.12 The owner of any unit, ship, agent, or province may transfer that property to another player in their end of turn financial report, as per the rules for money transfer
8.13 Any new settlements conquered become property of the character whose troops (or agent, if bribe) conquered this settlement
8.14 Any bribed troops become the property of that diplomat’s owner
8.15 Princesses are automatically the property (in game rules only, not in an ethical sense) of their oldest male relative, or of the King if this is not possible to determine.

[Myth]

Great except the BGR-II part. SS has a titles as ancillaries system, you can use the console to add or remove them as you like it. You can also wipe/add traits, I suggest allowing the players to remove one trait from their chosen character and to allow them to get traits based on their IC actions.

[Nightbringer]

Great except the BGR-II part. SS has a titles as ancillaries system, you can use the console to add or remove them as you like it. You can also wipe/add traits, I suggest allowing the players to remove one trait from their chosen character and to allow them to get traits based on their IC actions.

Sure, I can allow that (traits modification), but what is wrong with BGR-II?

If players don't want it, I believe simply not ticking it will cause it to go away.

[ArcturUs]

ya, I too think that BGR-II is not necessary here.

[Nightbringer]

So, a few questions for the players, which PvP system would you like, and do you want to use BGR, so far it seems like the latter is a no, but the former is unclear.

Also, I think that I should increase the time for the GM to return the save to 48 hours, since 24 might be a bit unrealistic. I will attempt to do it as quickly as possible though.

Also, what would people like to do with non-player controlled characters, as in, the generals + family members that are not claimed by anyone at the start. New ones during the game go to the person who birthed/adopted them, but that is not possible with the starting ones.
Should they go to the king to control? to their nearest older relative? to the GM? what do you think?

[Zim]

Hungary in SS? Sounds like fun.

I like most forms of pvp. Tabletop is fun, especially for really big battles. I also now have a connection that can handle regular mp battles when needed.

I'd say just let the gm control npcs, or just have them hang around their spawning settlements until they get a player.

[Nightbringer]

So for pvp battles we will do the following
Normal PvP battles should be fought as online multiplayer battles, if one or more players is unable to do this, if there are especially large battles (more than two armies), or if all players vote to do so, the battle may be fought in one of the following two ways.
1. Tabletop battle, as seen in previous M2TW games.
2. Abbreviated Tabletop battle (like the above, but with only one "turn.")

As for the extra NPCs, I will control them, but they will be pretty passive.

So what do everyone want the laws and titles of the Realm to be? I can try to come up with some on my own, but I would really appreciate some player feedback on this.

[phonicsmonkey]

I thought the V&V rules were pretty good with a couple of things we could tighten up such as:

- clearer distinction between IC and OOC rules and the abilities of players/characters to ignore or disobey 'IC' rules, punishments or consequences thereof
- need rules to determine which character takes precedence if they both try to do the same thing on the same turn (think Leo and Lothar at Milan)
- some kind of collective tax for communal defence capability (a la the Reichsmarschall)

[Myth]

I'd appreciate it if we figured out a way to make it more similar to real life feudalism. All the land belongs to the king, who then hands it down to Dukes who have vassal lords, who hand it down to vassal knights, who hand it down to the peasants.

[Nightbringer]

I thought the V&V rules were pretty good with a couple of things we could tighten up such as:

- clearer distinction between IC and OOC rules and the abilities of players/characters to ignore or disobey 'IC' rules, punishments or consequences thereof
- need rules to determine which character takes precedence if they both try to do the same thing on the same turn (think Leo and Lothar at Milan)
- some kind of collective tax for communal defence capability (a la the Reichsmarschall)


I agree very strongly with the first point. I feel it is very important that there is a clear line between these two, and to make it clear that no breaking of IC rules will have any consequence for the player, only for the character. I also feel that punishments for breaking IC rules should be largely player generated. Breaking an IC law that a Duke is not to start a war with an outside faction should not have GM action involved, it should be up to the other characters, and especially the King, to impose punishments on that player.

As for the laws themselves, I feel that they should be largely player generated as well. A basic structure is needed at the start, and a clear definition of the existing titles, but if players wish to create a new title, or create a new law, I want that to be entirely feasible, and actually encouraged, by the rules.

I think for the basic structure, it should certainly be feudal, but it is also important to me to reflect the increased freedom of the nobles granted by the Golden Bull.

For reference, here is a link to the text of the Golden Bull
It contains some lines that could work quite well as direct IC laws.

http://books.google.com/books?id=W80fvKC5YS0C&dq=golden+bull+hungary&jtp=129#v=onepage&q=golden%20bull%20hungary&f=false

And here are some of the main points of the Bull, for easier reading.

I. No nobleman may be arrested (in an unfair way), nor can he be oppressed by the desire of any higher power.
II. The Noblemen are declared to be exempt from the payment of taxes, nor will money be collected from their treasures. Neither will their residences be occupied, nor their villages, and these may only be visited by those who have been invited. No taxes will be levied on the Church.
III. If any nobleman dies without a male heir, his daughter will receive a quarter of his possessions; the remainder of his property shall be given to others, but if, as a result of their deaths, they cannot take possession of these properites, then these properties shall pass into the hands of their closest living relative; if this is not possible, then the King shall inherit them.
IV. If the King wishes to send his armies outside of the Kingdom the Noblemen will not be under obligation to go with him, if the monarch doesn't pay them. However if an invading army enters in the Kingdom, all of them must serve to expel it.
VII. The Hungarian Palatine may judge everyone in the Kingdom without any differentiation; but he cannot take try any nobleman without the King's approval.
VIII. If foreigners arrive in the Kingdom, they must not receive honors and public positions without the Royal Council's approval.
XI. Hungarian properties cannot be given to foreigners.
XXVI. No title or public charge can be inherited.
XVI. No-one, besides the Hungarian Palatine, the governors of Croatia and Slavonia, the King and the Queen Consort, can have more than one title or honor.
XXIV. Nor Jew or Ismaelite, can hold a public position (job). The Nobles of the Chamber, those working with monies, tax collectors and toll-keepers may only be Hungarian noblemen.
XXX. In order for this document to be lawful, and put into use for the future, seven copies, each sealed with the Golden Seal, will be made of it. The first will be sent to the Pope, the second to the Knights of Saint John, the third to the Templar Knights, the fourth to the King, the fifth to the archbishop of Esztergom, the sixth to the Archbishop of Kalocsa and the seventh to the Hungarian Palatine, so that these writings won't be falsified or confused.

From this, I see one important title.

The Palatine
They were the principal manager of the King's properties, and a judge of legal matters, and could be property owners on their own.
They would be chosen by the King. Aside from being a high honor, this position would allow the character to be the final decider in all IC legal matters. However, they would only have the right to impose penalties on the nobility with the explicit permission of the King.

[Nightbringer]

Well now that the holidays are winding down, how would people like to get the game started with the rules posted so far, and we can add and modify as things come up.

This (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9759) save should work so people who are interested should take a look and make a post of the character they are interested in. As far as settlements are concerned, the character with the ancillary for a settlement owns that settlement, and the King owns Constantinople. The one character who does not own a settlement is a vassal of the king.

Also, anyone have suggestions for a name?

[House Stark]

I'd be interested in playing this, if there are any spots still open. I'm new to this forum, but I've be playing Total War for years and I've played a couple of these types of game before.

I have a question regarding SS 6.4. It looks like I have to download 6.3 install it and then patch it with 6.4, is that correct? Is SS 6.4 compatible with other mods or do I need to uninstall Broken Crescent first?

As for a name, perhaps "Lords of the Danube"?

[phonicsmonkey]

Welcome to the Throne Room and to the Org!

[Nightbringer]

I'd be interested in playing this, if there are any spots still open. I'm new to this forum, but I've be playing Total War for years and I've played a couple of these types of game before.

I have a question regarding SS 6.4. It looks like I have to download 6.3 install it and then patch it with 6.4, is that correct? Is SS 6.4 compatible with other mods or do I need to uninstall Broken Crescent first?

As for a name, perhaps "Lords of the Danube"?

Sure, there should still be some avatars available.

I like "Lords of the Danube, and it is especially fitting with the current territory Hungary controls.

As for SS, yes, you patch 6.3 to 6.4, and it is mod foldered so you shouldn't need to uninstall broken crescent.

And welcome!

[House Stark]

Welcome to the Throne Room and to the Org!

Thanks!


Sure, there should still be some avatars available.

I like "Lords of the Danube", and it is especially fitting with the current territory Hungary controls.

As for SS, yes, you patch 6.3 to 6.4, and it is mod foldered so you shouldn't need to uninstall broken crescent.

And welcome!

Excellent, I'll get SS 6.4 installed tonight or tomorrow and let you know which character I would like to play as.

[Myth]

Heh I was at the Danube not 10 days ago, watching her get smaller during the winter. We have players from the other side of the world, who've never seen the river, yet they are ready to RP in such a game. The internet has made the distances between locations, nations, cultures smaller than they have ever been!

[Myth]

I would take the King. Please remove the trait that makes him a horrible cav leader. Also, not all settlements are owned. The King is in another town currently, I'd want to combine his army with the stack from Constantinople, he will have to hoof it I suppose?

FYI there's a mistake in SS. Sofia has never been a Muslim province, hence there is no "emir" of Sofia (I live in the city right now, so you can take my word). Cosnsidering that they took it from the ERE/Bulgarians, the ruler of the city being Hungarian however, would be probably a baron or whatever tittle corresponds to baron in Hungary.

[phonicsmonkey]

I don't mind which character I take but I can express a preference if you need me to, just let me know

[Nightbringer]

Constantinople is technically owned by the King. Another noble could move into it and take control of it, but this would be treason against the King.
As for the bad traits, I kind of like leaving them in as I personally find negative aspects to be great for roleplay, but if it is a huge issue, or if people generally want to do a little editing on the starting characters, that is fine by me.

Phonics, would you like to get a random assignment?

[phonicsmonkey]

Phonics, would you like to get a random assignment?

Let's see what others want to do and maybe I'll make a pick when a couple other people are done picking

[Nightbringer]

sounds good

[Myth]

I picked the King based on you allowing the removing of one trait we dislike. If it's not allowed, I'll change my choice. Also, you should just use the console to give him the ancillary that signifies the ownership of Constantinople. Same for anyone else who is to own a settlement but doesn't.

[Nightbringer]

I picked the King based on you allowing the removing of one trait we dislike. If it's not allowed, I'll change my choice. Also, you should just use the console to give him the ancillary that signifies the ownership of Constantinople. Same for anyone else who is to own a settlement but doesn't.

Okay, I had left that off just in case I changed my mind about him owning it, but he will have the trait when the game starts.

[House Stark]

I'd like to play as Vata a Kacsics nembol, if that would be acceptable with everyone.

[ArcturUs]

Im gonna have to drop out of this, due to my exams.

[Zim]

I'll take Demeter az Aba if he's available.

[Nightbringer]

sounds good zim and house stark, sorry to hear you can't play ezilkannan.

[Nightbringer]

Well, if that is everyone that is interested.
phonics, why don't you pick your avatar then we can get started. Also, those of you who have picked a character can choose 1 trait to remove if they wish. (and haven't already picked one)

[phonicsmonkey]

I guess I'll take the Junior King then

[Nightbringer]

sounds good, do you mind creating a subforum for the game in the RPG section phonics?
I will post the save for the first turn tomorrow night and we can get started!

[phonicsmonkey]

What are we calling it again? Kings of the Danube? I have to get the tech admins to create the sub-forum so it might not be up before you want to start, but we can move threads in there afterwards

Sorry, I see - Lords of the Danube

[Nightbringer]

I'll wait for the subforum to create a new thread, but for the time being, rules are as they are in the first post of the thread, and here is the information for your characters.
Myth, I couldn't give you control over Constantinople as you are full on ancillaries, but as you have yet to assert direct rule by entering the province I think it is okay that you lack the title.


Myth - King Pozsony
Duke of Varad, and nominal ruler of Constantinople
Titles: King
Funds:4624
Armies: the garrisons of Varad and Constantinople, the army led by Mikan a Bogatradvany nembol
Vassal: Mikan a Bogatradvany nembol

Phonicsmonkey -Junior King Bokeny
Junior King
Titles: Duke of Zagreb
funds:2586
Armies: the garrison of Zagreb

House Stark - Vata a Kacsics nembol
Emir of Targoviste
Titles: Lord High Marshall
Funds: 1515
Armies: the garrison of Targoviste

Zim- Demeter az Aba nembol
Duke of Kassa
Titles: Master of the Horse
Funds: 1947
Armies: the garrison of Kassa


Other Characters

Bokony a Huntpaznan nembol
Duke of Brasov
Titles: Palatine

Andras a Zah nembol
Duke of Sofia

Mikan a Bogatradvany nembol
Vassal of the King


Currently existing Titles

The Palatine (in game, Lord High Chancellor)
The principal manager of the King's properties (no game effect), and the judge of legal matters among the nobility.
They are chosen by the King. Aside from being a high honor, this position allows the character to be the final decider in all IC legal matters. However, they would only have the right to impose penalties on the nobility with the explicit permission of the King.

Lord High Marshall
The chief commander of Hungary's armies. They are chosen by the King. This man is responsible for co-ordination of all Hungarian military efforts, and, if supported by more than half the nobility, may legalize the capture of any territory.

Master of the Horse
This man oversees the Kingdoms horse breeding and the appointment of cavalry officers. They are chosen by the Lord High Marshall. This title gives the character a slight chance of having any cavalry unit owned by an enemy turn over to him in the event of a civil war. This reflects the intimate relationships the Master of the Horse has with cavalry officers. (% chance of occurring for each unit = ((commands *s of character - command *s of unit owner) x 5). Other than this, this title has no in game effect.

Master of the Treasury (no in game representation)
This man is responsible for ensuring that the economy of Hungary runs smoothly, and does not leave certain critical areas underfunded. They are chosen by the King. This title makes the character responsible for overseeing financial deals between characters and with other factions, and for proposing such dealings when deemed necessary for the good of the Realm. This title allows the character to propose and accept financial deals with other factions if supported by more than half the nobility.

Lord Privy Seal
This man bears the private seal of the King, and is chosen by the King. This title is a great honor the King may bestow upon a character, and the title only exists when the King wishes it to. However, their is no direct benefit of having this title.

Laws of the Realm

I. The Noblemen are declared to be exempt from the payment of taxes, nor will money be collected from their treasures. Neither will their residences be occupied, nor their villages, and these may only be visited by those who have been invited. No taxes will be levied on the Church.

II. If any nobleman dies without a male heir, his daughter will receive a quarter of his funds (disappear from game); the remainder of his property shall pass into the hands of his closest living relative; if this is not possible, then the King shall inherit them.

III. If the King wishes to send his armies outside of the Kingdom the Noblemen will not be under obligation to go with him, if the monarch doesn't pay them. However if an invading army enters in the Kingdom, all of them must serve to expel it.

IV. The Hungarian Palatine may judge everyone in the Kingdom without any differentiation; but he cannot try any nobleman without the King's approval.

V. Hungarian properties cannot be given to foreigners.

VI. No title (offices, not dukedoms or the like) or public charge can be inherited.

VII. No character may hold more than a single title.

VIII. No settlement may be taken without the permission of the King.

IX. No war may be started without the permission of the King.

X. No financial deals with other factions may be made without the permission of the King.

XI No man may lay claim to a settlement unless it is given to him by the King.


Enemies
The Cuman Khanate
The Fatimid Caliphate
The Golden Horde

Allies
The Republic of Genoa
The Kingdom of Denmark
The Grand Duchy of Kiev

[Nightbringer]

and here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/local_links.php?action=jump&catid=205&id=9829)is the save for the first turn.
As we are just starting, and so players can get their bearings, this first turn will have a maximum time limit of 72 hours from this post.

and please remember, do not end the turn, I will do that after all players have taken their moves.

[Myth]

I would request the honour of having the first IC post. Do I do that here?

[Nightbringer]

Here, I will start an IC thread which we can move later.

[House Stark]

Shouldn't starting funds be 1,000 + the income of any provinces we control?

[Nightbringer]

Shouldn't starting funds be 1,000 + the income of any provinces we control?

yes, thank you for pointing that out. I forgot to include that.
I will edit the first post to reflect this.

[phonicsmonkey]

yes, thank you for pointing that out. I forgot to include that.
I will edit the first post to reflect this.

I thought the income from provinces would only be added to our treasuries after the end of the first turn.

So starting money is 1000 and the starting money for the next turn would be 1000 less first turn expenditure plus income from provinces

[Myth]

I thought the income from provinces would only be added to our treasuries after the end of the first turn.

So starting money is 1000 and the starting money for the next turn would be 1000 less first turn expenditure plus income from provinces

That makes more sense. Does the King get his King's Purse?

[Nightbringer]

I don't think that is exactly what I stipulated in the rules, but looking back I think it works out better the way you put it.

So yes, the financial report at the end of turn one should be

1000 - expenditure + income = total1

total1 would then replace 1000 during the turn 2 financial report, so

total1 - expenditure + income = total2

[phonicsmonkey]

EDIT: and here it is back

Got the subforum up and running now so feel free to start a new OOC game thread (use the new prefix LotD) and I'll move it (and the IC thread) in there and also move posts from this thread (rules, character starting positions, saves) into the new one

[Myth]

Taking le save.

Questions:

1. can we hold off on moving our characters/armies until we hold the first meeting of the nobility? It is very important for us to decide our attitude towards Venice and the ERE.

2. Can I disband units freely?

3. If we attack a neutral faction, do you leave the AI to do it's decision making or do you take command of them to do what makes sense (like hitting an undefended city of ours etc.)?


"It was raining again, but rain was much more tolerable than snow. The King rode on his muscly, brown destrier, clad in plate and mail and with the royal coat of arms across his tabard. There was not much conversation going on between his loyal retinue and the nobility that followed him, in fact the drumming of raindrops across steel shoulder pads and vambraces was by far the most prolific sound to be heard. The horses bore the weather and their amroured riders stoically, only the occasional whinnying or snorting could be heard. The scenery was typically rural, with a muddy roadway leading trough sloped fields littered with patches of snow. Soon the cold rain would turn back to snow and the mud would freeze over, but the King was hoping to be besides a warm fireplace at that point.

King Pozsony was a handsome man, or so his wife would tell him, and even at the advanced age of thirty eight his robust stature and great health made him into a fierce warrior when needed. He towered over the other riders by at least half a head, and his armour gleamed with silver and gold etched along the edge of the collar. Deep inside, the King felt himself to be more of a scholar than a leader of soldiers, however he had been cunning enough to recognize Hungary's need for a strong military leader. Such were the times, that learned men scarcely became Kings, and if they happened to chance upon the crown, they soon had to learn the crafts of war or find themselves short of a head or a kingdom. Often both.

"What is Adelhaid doing right now?" he found himself thinking of his sister as Varad's walls appeared on the horizon. She was six years his elder and if not for her remarkable beauty she would have been sent to a nunnery long ago. She was at Bordeaux, on the other side of the world, speaking with the French on some minor matters the King himself had no time to discuss.

Maria, his wife, found less space in the King's thoughts. She had been instructed to go to Sofia, despite the province being occupied still by Orthodox Romans and Bulgarians. It was safer than the border cities and Constantinople had long been a den of vipers, deadlier than the plague itself. Before King Pozsony asserted his rule over the city it was as safe as keeping a rabid dog as a pet.

They passed by some serfs who were pushing an ox cart loaded with firewood, which had sank quite severely in the unpleasant mud, and thretened to tip over and spill the logs and sticks that filled it's entirety. The commoners cursed in some local mongrel tongue and their dirt covered faces and damp clothes made them seem wretched. The King signaled two of his knights to dismount and give them assistance. He would have to send them wine later tonight, least they curse him for a week. They failed to understand that it was the serfs who worked the land and toiled to provide food, cloth and taxes. Not a single sword could be forged without someone working for it's price and a smith to craft it. And knights were neither smiths nor working men, though their service was unquestionably vital to the survival of Hungary and indeed any kingdom. He would need every mounted warrior of able body and appropriate age, if he was to push back these mongrels that called themselves Romans.

The Golden Bull had just passed, barely at that, but such was the price of peace. The King had no desire to slaughter his kinsmen and vassals, nor did he wish to vanquish families who had lineages ranging back to the time of Árpád and his Magyars. Still, while they had been bickering and squabbling over rights and taxes, Hungary had grown weak. Had it not been much weaker and divided by constant civil war and treachery, the Eastern Roman Empire would have stomped his nation under a steel boot, much the same as they had done with the Bulgarians.

Now, Hungary stood with weakened defenses, a sorry lot of impoverished Barons, with a horde of greedy Venetians in the east waiting to strike and an elite force of Romans reportedly prowling around Constantinople. Peace was tenuous at best, and only a fool trusted his neighbors. If said neighbors were the Republic of Venice and the so-called Eastern Roman Empire, then suspicion became as mandatory as breathing.

The wild, unwashed Cumans to the North poached and poked around Hungary's borders, and they too had to be taught a lesson. So many problems and so little ways to solve them, bar the extinguishing of yet more Hungarian lives. Mika had been an eager lad and a decent general. The Kng's hopes largely lied with him, but now he had to prepare for the meeting with the other nobles. "First among equals" he reminded himself. He still held absolute power, but such an attitude would win them to his side. He needed someone on his side besides one twenty eight year old general.

The horses hooves clattered as the riders went trough the gate and onto the slightly crooked cobblestone path that was leading towards the inner keep and the meeting hall. The rain made the locals miserable and they regarded the mail clad and richly dressed Hungarian nobles with suspicion and fear behind locks of drenched hair. "They need hope and stability, a means to survive the winter, sow in spring, reap in summer and marry their children in the autumn. I give them taxes, sieges and levies. And my blue eyes, as that is all I have left."

The serfs would have to bear it, just as everyone else did. The King had suffered so much ill fate, after all. It was time to change Hungary's fate however, and the first step was securing the earnest allegiance of proud and powerful men, whom only recently had raised armies against him."

[phonicsmonkey]

We need a story thread

[House Stark]

1. can we hold off on moving our characters/armies until we hold the first meeting of the nobility? It is very important for us to decide our attitude towards Venice and the ERE.

Seconded.

[phonicsmonkey]

1. can we hold off on moving our characters/armies until we hold the first meeting of the nobility? It is very important for us to decide our attitude towards Venice and the ERE.

This seems like an IC question that we should discuss in the IC thread. Why not post there as the King and make a request?

[phonicsmonkey]

I'm closing this thread now as I have created the subforum (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?378-Lords-of-the-Danube) and we now have three threads to meet our immediate needs:

OOC thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?139706-Lords-of-the-Danube-OOC-thread), for rules, recruitment of new players, OOC discussion and savegames

Courtroom (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?139689-Lords-of-the-Danube-Courtroom), for IC discussion including the council of nobles

Story thread (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?139707-Lords-of-the-Danube-Story-Thread), for stories!

Other threads can be created in that forum as necessary.