Star Wars: The Old Republic

[Veho Nex]

Greetings Jedi and Sith alike. This is your friendly neighborhood VehoNex here come to tell you about the great new online sensation. The old republic is the new Bioware/EA MMO that is trying its hardest to kill WoW.

But! Enough about the game! I'm here to shamelessly advertise my server, Warriors of the Shadow, and my guild, Black Sun.
I founded this guild on Warriors of the Shadow with my older brother and our half brother. If you play and would like to join us you can catch me on my main, Nexian (Server: Warriors of the Shadow) or my Alt, He-Man (Server: Warriors of the Shadow). Come play with us and we can take pleasure in destroying the Republic once and for all. Also, I hereby declare that Server: Warriors of the Shadow is the official .org server and that all orgahs young and old, extreme poster and lurker, gamer and history fanatic should join us on Warriors of the Shadow to either uphold the Republic or to fight for its destruction.

Server: Warriors of the Shadow

Mumble for Black Sun: Gnomely.No-IP.org:64738

[Vladimir]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?115549-Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic

[Veho Nex]

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?115549-Star-Wars-The-Old-Republic

Im not really into one month necromancy, they still reek of the dead. I prefer to start anew or revive threads where no one has posted for the last 6 years.

[Vladimir]

But you're Sith?!?

[Veho Nex]

But you're Sith?!?

Your point being?

[easytarget]

If I had to guess, his point is you should be into dead things. :rolleyes:

[Vladimir]

If I had to guess, his point is you should be into dead things. :rolleyes:

Yea, the whole evil dark motif.

A good friend of mine is playing a hot Imperial agent. Yes, the person playing her is a guy.

[Veho Nex]

Yea, the whole evil dark motif.

A good friend of mine is playing a hot Imperial agent. Yes, the person playing her is a guy.

My BH is a lady. Truth be told I prefer to stare at a girls butt even if its fake over that of a guys. Also, just because I'm sith doesnt mean i like dead stuff. Sith really isnt the whole evil dark motif, but one about power. Whats the point of being all powerful if you kill all your subjects.

[tibilicus]

Sitting firmly on the fence with this game. Going to see how it plays out.

[econ21]

I posted my first impressions based on the open beta here:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?139179-SWTOR-beta-impressions

Right now, I have a level 37 Jedi Guardian and am very happy with the game. I've been effectively playing it as a Kotor3, single player game, focussing on levelling. The story is pretty good and none of the quest dialogues I feel like space-baring through (except when it is non-English speaking aliens talking). The settings are quite varied and the quests, while they are conventional, are well motivated. I like the levelling system - a new talent point and typically a new skill each level, makes it rewarding. I like the system of having moddable gear, so you can customise your look and keep starter gear from being obsolete. Overall, I think the game works as a Kotor3. It is much longer than Kotor1 or Kotor2. The mechanics maybe better (the combat is more interactive). The companions are less of a feature (they were very pronounced in kotor1 and 2 as it was a single player game), although I like my Guardian's companions and am enjoying an ellicit romance, waiting to see if it will bring dark side points for being verboten.

I've not done much playing with other players. There are heroic 2 or 4 player quests, but I find they disrupt the flow of the story while levelling. There are "flashpoints", instanced 4 man dungeons, between planets but I tend to skip them as they are even more disruptive. There is no "looking for dungeon" tool like WoW has, so you have to hang around the fleet trying to form a group. Healers seem to be scarce. There are, if anything, too many tanks (my guardian is a tank). The community (I am on an EU RP server) seems decent: people persevere in groups and don't ragequit, unlike WoW. I have not tried PvP yet but my son likes it as a Bounty Hunter tank.

I am not sure how it will turn out. Worst best outcome, it will be a very nice atmospheric levelling experience - rather like Lord of the Rings online, but better. Whether it sustains a strong end game like WoW, is a tougher question, but the underlying mechanics (almost a clone of WoW) are solid so it has potential.

A big attraction is the difference of the class quests. It's kind of what Dragon Age Origins promised but failed to deliver: very different experiences for each class. It means that levelling an alt is attractive to me, whereas in a WoW type game, it would merely be a repetitive grind. I am not sure what my first alt will be. Playing a subversive light side Sith Warrior was immense fun in the beta. I've heard the Imperial Agent has a great "James Bond" style story arc. But I am not sure I could stomach serving the Empire for 50 levels - they are evil, in an unambiguous "destroy a planet of a billion souls" kind of way.

[Major Robert Dump]

I have around 90 minutes of uninterrupted free time a day, assuming my convoys dont get into fights and I dont get rocketed in the hooch which means I have to go count heads. So I bought the digital download, which with my big 30k connection, should take me onlu 9 more days to download haha, been going for 4 now.

Since my connection is slow and my attention is limited, I will probably play a few toons up to level 10, since I dont have the time for more advanced stuff and I dont want to have to make important decisions. Plus, the specialites will be nerfed and tweeked and I am waiting to see what comes in the next couple of months.

I have a pretty good idea of what I would like to do and with what, but I am a little put off because from my research and trolling I am gleaning that there are no non-saber melee weapons to be used by non jedi. I was really hpoing to make a melee BH. I know there are melee attacks that can be used in conjunction with other weapons, but I was really wanting to hack stuff as default attack, and I dont want to play a jedi.

I like what I see with the crafting and talents, but I am not a huge fan of the 10 points in x to get skill y type trees. I know this is the norm, I just dont like it.

I also think the class skills that come automatically from leveling are too many, and would prefer if you had to spend points to get those instead.

I was also hoping for race specific traits.

@Veho Nex: I was wanting to play republic, and probably still will, but I will come to your server and join your guild as a sith because I owe you one for sending me MB POP. Just don't expect much out of me with this slow bandwidth, I won't be back in the states until summer, and my power gaming days are over

[econ21]

I was really hpoing to make a melee BH. I know there are melee attacks that can be used in conjunction with other weapons, but I was really wanting to hack stuff as default attack, and I dont want to play a jedi.

My son levelled a BH to 50. He was also initially frustrated with the restriction to pistols (he wanted a carbine). But he was very happy with the class in power, gameplay and story.


but I am not a huge fan of the 10 points in x to get skill y type trees. I know this is the norm, I just dont like it.

Yes, it works out as "pick almost all the talents in your tree to get the ultimate talent; choose 10 from another tree" and thus provides very little actual choice or customisation. On the plus side, levelling is rewarding, getting a talent every level.


I also think the class skills that come automatically from leveling are too many,

They come fast up to about level 20, but those levels also go quite fast. Thereafter, you don't get many skills. Playing a Jedi Guardian (L41 now), I don't feel I have too many skills. It's very close to a WoW warrior and one of the things I liked about WoW warriors is having a full tool box of abilities you can use when the moment is ripe. I am using almost 36 buttons on my naga mouse though (12 + shift/ctrl versions).


I was also hoping for race specific traits.

Races are very bland, but at least you aren't forced to play race X to maximise your power. The Sith are racists, so it might be fun to play a non-human/non-Sith if you go Empire. Most Republic players seem to be human, as I am, and race never seems to matter.

[Monk]

Races are very bland, but at least you aren't forced to play race X to maximise your power. The Sith are racists, so it might be fun to play a non-human/non-Sith if you go Empire. Most Republic players seem to be human, as I am, and race never seems to matter.

There's only one, maybe two parts in the game where race is ever mentioned in the dialogue. Class choice is mentioned constantly, people react a bit differently to you if you're a Jedi as opposed to a Smuggler, for instance. Feels like a deliberate design choice to make race matter very little other than the obvious aesthetics.


Yes, it works out as "pick almost all the talents in your tree to get the ultimate talent; choose 10 from another tree" and thus provides very little actual choice or customisation. On the plus side, levelling is rewarding, getting a talent every level.

Surprisingly there are a few classes that can hybridize effectively. There's a popular mercenary build making the rounds that splits 25 points in heals and the rest in Arsenal, which some pvpers are using to top healing AND damage meters of the same game. Its quite interesting. Unfortunately not every class has that freedom.

[Major Robert Dump]

A Zabrak should have aim and agility bonuses. A Trandoshan should have mad hitpoints and strength. A human and twi lek shlould get diplomacy bonuses.

I'm just saying.

speaking of, I cant deal with the forums, there are like 5 new threads every 10 minutes..... can someone please explain to me how stat point allocations work? do you pick stats to start or as you level? wassup?

[econ21]

A Zabrak should have aim and agility bonuses. A Trandoshan should have mad hitpoints and strength. A human and twi lek shlould get diplomacy bonuses.

I'm just saying.

That's very sensible from a "world simulation" point of view, but I am not sure it works for an MMO. Powergaming is quite important in an MMO, whether competitively in PvP or "cooperatively" in raiding (being the best tank/healer/dps you can etc). What you suggest would put pressure on, for example, all Sith Warrior tanks to be Trandoshans. Either you succumb to this pressure to play something other than you want, or you feel aggrieved for being gimped for playing the race you want. I've played MMOs where my chosen race (Elf in LOTOR, for example) is the worst suited for my chosen class (guardian ie tank) and it's not fun. TOR may have gone too far in making race just cosmetic, but any racial bonuses probably should just be "flavour" things rather than have a marked effect on your power.


speaking of, I cant deal with the forums, there are like 5 new threads every 10 minutes..... can someone please explain to me how stat point allocations work? do you pick stats to start or as you level? wassup?

You pick your talents as you level. You don't directly pick your stats. Those come from your class and, especially, from your gear. It's very much following the WOW model: your gear is everything. You can customise much of your gear to get the stats you want (e.g. a guardian can put might (strength heavy) mods or more defensive ones in their heavy armor depending on whether they are following a dps or tanking build).

GC: you can't be a Wookie or a Trandoshan (or a droid). You are limited to very human-like races: Twileks and Zabraks (Darth Maul types) are perhaps the most distinctive; many others seems merely blue/green/grey/blind ugly-looking humans. However, smugglers get a Wookie companion; BHs get a Jawa; JGs an R2-D2 type droid; JCs get a Trandoshan etc.

[Monk]

GC: you can't be a Wookie or a Trandoshan (or a droid). You are limited to very human-like races: Twileks and Zabraks (Darth Maul types) are perhaps the most distinctive; many others seems merely blue/green/grey/blind ugly-looking humans.

I'm still holding out hope that when the legacy system finally gets introduced we'll see extra race options being unlockables. Nothing ridiculous, but i'd love to have a bit more variety.

And don't knock Miraluka! Come on man.

[Beskar]

The game initial start-up cost is a big no for me. I don't simply have that money and it is almost twice the price I paid for Skyrim on release.

[Major Robert Dump]

The race thing is a mistake. The bonuses could be so small that they are almost negligible, but a human or sullistan should be a better crafter than a lizard man. It would actually add to variety if you provided a manner in which to balance, such as opposing penalties implemented through stats or gear limitations. for example, a wookie has more HP but gets very little armor. A twilek cant wear a full helm. etc etc

Not looking at it from a real world stand point, I just don't like cookie cutter. I dont like when I can tell exactly what a class, build and gear loadout is the first few actions of the fight based on sparkly animations and sounds.

Still bought the game though, but gonna hold out on any leveling past 10for a couple months in hopes they add melee weapons

this is of course if I can ever get it downloaded..... still trucking along

[econ21]

The game initial start-up cost is a big no for me. I don't simply have that money and it is almost twice the price I paid for Skyrim on release.

Well, Skyrim is very good value for money but TOR is no rip-off. The game is massive. Each class has their own class quest chain - i.e. the main quest chain - lasting throughout the 50 levels (class quests maybe around 1/5 of all questing time). Republic and Empire don't share side quests. If you were to have a month of vacation or something, you'd be hard put to beat TOR for value for money for that month. I've had it for three weeks, have only one character (who is now level 44) and have played well over the advertised amount of playtime in Baldur's Gate, for example.

Of course, the initial start-up cost may be very small relative to what you have to pay for subscription fees. But even then, when I look at my WoW playtime relative to the financial cost, it compares well with even the old school RPGs like BG1. I'm not sure I will stick with TOR like I have stuck with WoW. The end-game is currently underdeveloped. But if the game earns enough money, there is potential. I'd say it's a safe buy for someone who wants a Kotor3 (or even eight Kotor3s). Whether it is for someone who wants a WoW 2.0 is yet to be proven.

[Lemur]

this looks like an MMO that is favorable for casual players
That perked my ears up. I gave up on MMOs because I could not compete with people who did not have jobs, families, etc. If BioWare has cracked the code of offering a competitive experience for those of us who have lives, ergo limited gaming time ...

[johnhughthom]

Anybody any advice on how to find out if latency fluctuation is a problem on my end and how to fix it? I'm a bit of an MMO noob. Been playing since Wednesday and it was fine until yesterday, usually around 50 ms. Since yesterday it has starting jumping between 50 and around 600, with occasional jumps to silly numbers like 30,000. I'd like to check if it's a problem with my comp or connection before I bug customer service. Nobody else on the server seems to be having any problems.

Really enjoying the game, currently level 25 with a Jedi Consular. I've heard it's probably the weakest storyline, but I'm finding it okay as gaming storylines go. I'm playing it as a singleplayer RPG with multi-player elements, only done one 2 player heroic and one 4 player heroic, and to be honest I think it's more than value for money on that basis. Not sure I'll keep playiing (and paying) once I play through the storylines though.

[Monk]

Sometimes you will time out from the servers - during which your ping will jump to insane amounts (like 50k) while your connection is attempting to reset. Your ping isn't really that high, its just the game trying to deal with the fact its lost connection to the server and estimating that as a new ping rate.

As a rule, http://pingtest.net/ is a good place to start for figuring out the stability and speed of your line. If the problem is more than just random disconnects and persists to the point it hinders your enjoyment, giving CS a ring is probably a good idea. Just be prepared - Bioware CS for swtor is not that good..

[econ21]

Sorry, GC - I am on a different server, Euro side. And I would not party with dastardly Sith anyway!

How are you finding your juggernaut? I have not been brave enough to take my JK tank into many instances but just finished my class quest today and was very satisfied with the levelling experience. I really like soloing as a tank - especially now that I have taken to bringing the healer as my companion. It feels quite balletic and fast paced. However, I can envisage it being a challenge in an instance to keep aggro and to stay alive.

[econ21]

If I was gonna play on the Republic side, it'd be a toss-up between Trooper (I like the idea of being part of a special-forces-in-space thing) or I'd make a Jedi Knight since i'm already quite comfortable with the Sith Warrior mechanics (exactly the same as the Jedi Knight, just different names for the skills).

I have a similar dilemma. I can say that the Jedi Knight story is excellent imo, if you want a fairly straightforward epic "saving the galaxy" experience. If you try it, at least play until the second planet (Coruscant) as it was one of the best whereas the starter planet was among the weakest.

My son really liked the Bounty Hunter mechanics (as well as story) though, so I may go for a trooper next. I also like the trooper premise, although the JK was much more military-oriented than I expected. One thing I missed from the JK story is when the war breaks out - apparently, the trooper story is the clearest in showing that transition.

My limited taste of the Sith Warrior was very tantalising though - playing a light side role in such a dark setting was delicious and felt wonderfully subversive, but I don't know how far I could get without feeling morally compromised (I am not a fan of playing evil characters in RPGs).

[Major Robert Dump]

My light side Inquisitor is not going so hot. I am totally broke.

My Light side bounty hunter is actually doing quite well.

Instances kill my frame rate and my slow internet doesnt help, but outdoors everything seems to run smooth, so I am just play testing builds and farming NPCs outside.

[Kekvit Irae]

My light side Inquisitor is not going so hot. I am totally broke.

I'm playing a LS Sith Inquisitor (Assassin) and money generally isn't an issue. If you're running low on credits, try picking up three gathering crew skills (Slicing gives credits directly, everything else gets you crafting materials) and just run around the world looking for gathering nodes. Once you've collected a good amount, put them up on the auction house at the default price and you'll be rolling in cash in no time. Just be sure to open up the lockboxes you get from Slicing, since they give credits directly and you cant sell lockboxes.
I'm currently level 30, and the majority of my income comes from selling my now-worthless Underworld Trading and Scavenging crap on the AH after I increase my Cybertech skill to the point where lower tier metals have no use to me. I supplement my income with doing the space battle dailies, including the bonus objectives in each mission. Once you finish Chapter 1, you'll get your own spaceship and can run dailies. You'll also get a free companion to help with gathering too. The free droid you get is also a good healer if you're running solo and aren't going Sorcerer, provided you either craft or buy his armor upgrades, and he will do crafting/gathering/missions just like your tank companion.

Cybertech works out just fine for me since I can craft purple armor mods and normal mods and put them on the AH. I can also craft level 2 spaceship upgrades, which are vastly more powerful than the level 3 upgrades you can buy. Going this route has benefited me in many ways, such as keeping a set of low-level orange custom armor and then just upgrading it whenever I can with my armoring and mods. No need to buy more armor unless it's orange. With a decent amount of Cybertech, your custom armor will be vastly better than loot armor of the same variety. Using this method, I choose commendations over other rewards for quests in case I stumble upon a really good enhancement on the commendation vendor, or a piece of orange armor I absolutely need.

EDIT: I'd also like to expand on the whole idea of running space battle dailies. They give huge amounts of money (relatively) for little effort. For example, Sarapin Assault, unlocked at level 24, has you go up against a disabled Republic destroyer. At level 30, the mission reward is around 600 credits (it's much greater at higher levels), and the bonus objective for killing 60 fighters is around 300. However, the key here to getting money is to throw all missiles you have at the command deck (the raised portion on the top of the destroyer in the middle) until it goes boom. That's the super secret bonus objective, and gives a whopping 2700 credits, even at my level. Sadly, you only get this reward when you are on the mission daily, so it's not repeatable. But 2.7k for about five minutes work is definitely something you want to look into if you're hurting for money. The Cartel Listening Post, unlocked at level 20, has a similar secret bonus objective, which is the comm relay on the tower below the station. Again, throw missiles at it until it dies. Easy money.

[econ21]

I am totally broke.

I think you said you would keep low level for a bit, so that may partly account for your financial woes. I never felt I had alot of credits, but at near end level, they really started pouring in just from questing (timely as I think you are expected spend nearly 400k on the final speeder skill and vehicle).

While levelling, I don't think I bought anymuch at all - there were some vendors, but their prices seemed high given all the great stuff you get from quest rewards.

One purchase I would recommend though are the upgrades for the ships. You can get a near full set from vendors at low level. Having the most basic ones really helps you get started and does not cost much (quickly recouped). And upgrading when you can makes the later missions doable - the missions even warn you, you are expected to have ship upgrades of a certain tier (levelling gives you access to harder space missions, but does not make you any better at them unless you buy the upgrades unlocked by level requirements).

[rvg]

I have a question about this game. Is this basically World of Old Republicraft or does it have significant gameplay differences?

[Voigtkampf]

I suppose on any other forums people might scream "trollz!!!" and aim their flamethrowers at you.

But it is indeed a legitimate question, and as much as one may like or dislike the game, the answer is "yes". The developers themselves have said that they weren't trying to reinvent the wheel and, more so, that they were specifically taking WoW as their model to base their development upon. Which is neither odd nor is it stupid, WoW ruled for a reason, and one should explore the reasons why that game has, after some eight years of existence, about ten million active subscribers.

I couldn't fall in love with ToR. I saw nothing that deviated from the WoW MMORPG formula except the heavy reliance on the spoken dialogs. It lacks many of winning features of WoW and currently has no end game. Also, BioWare has proven that they cannot really manage an MMO community (Ilum patch 1.1 PvP disaster is one "shiny" example of their inability to act if anyone should require one pointed out).

That all being said, ToR is a fun game, a new game, and deserves a try. I unsubbed after the first month, but I know I'll try the game again at some point, after it had some more time to "ferment". Sadly, at this specific moment, it is not what I hoped for, and it doesn't really give me an incentive to stay subscribed to it.

[econ21]

I have a question about this game. Is this basically World of Old Republicraft or does it have significant gameplay differences?

It's more like Warcraft than Warcraft it, I think. That's to say - it is like old style Warcraft, when talent trees were real talent trees, tanks were real tanks and sexy blue humanoids were real sexy blue humanoids. No, sorry, I got carried away there. But ToR has somethings that WoW either had in the past and discarded, or is about to discard. Threat is still a big issue for tanks (they get 150% threat in ToR compared to dps, 500% in WoW) and levelling is still substantial, engaging and challenging with a risk of death if you under-perform. Conversely, as Voigtkampf says, it lacks some of the features that WoW has acquired that almost invaluable - like threat meters and other add-ons, Looking for Dungeon Queues etc.

I think you would have to look at the different classes to see if the mechanics are very different. I have only played a Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior tank and it is so similar to a WoW protection warrior, you would think Blizzard could sue. However, I suspect some of the other classes may be more innovative - for example, some healers shoot to heal, which sounds neat while the "ranged tank" of the Trooper/Bounty Hunter sounds a lot of fun, even if it is not really "ranged".

As Voigtkampf says, the biggest distinctive feature of ToR is the spoken dialogs and one should not under-estimate that. Levelling is a lot of fun in ToR (I used to like levelling in WoW, but nowadays, aside form whatever is the current expansion, levelling in WoW is so accelerated and nerfed, it is would be tedious - if it were not so accelerated). Levelling a character in ToR is very like playing a meaty single player RPG like Dragon Age or Kotor. It takes a while but eventually you are at the end game and as Voigtkampf says, you are left with an end-game that is not very distinctive from WoW and currently inferior to it. I am sure Bioware will improve and expand the endgame, but I doubt it will be more than World of Old Republicraft.

[Kekvit Irae]

I would say that, right now, SWTOR is World of Warcraft Lite. It doesn't have many of the great features WoW has, is extremely buggy, and isn't that engaging except for conversations. I would suggest just waiting until a few months until the game is fully polished enough to be worth your time if you are too used to WoW.

[Voigtkampf]

I have only played a Jedi Knight/Sith Warrior tank and it is so similar to a WoW protection warrior, you would think Blizzard could sue.

Speaking of which, I saw this picture a while ago and thought I might share this comparison between WoW and ToR warrior... (Click until fully enlarged)

3607

[Kekvit Irae]

Speaking of which, I saw this picture a while ago and thought I might share this comparison between WoW and ToR warrior... (Click until fully enlarged)

3607

Don't get me started on how "similar" the Sith Assassin is to the Rogue.

[econ21]

I will say that, at least compared to Burning Crusade (which was the last Expansion I played for WoW) that the Sith Warrior is a lot easier. The way you fight battles in KotOR is very different than in WoW, simply because most of the trash mobs are ranged and the battlefields are relatively large and spread out. For some reason, I never feel like I'm taking a very big risk when i go solo questing in TOR, whereas solo questing with a warrior in WoW could get pretty dangerous.

Well, I take your point but Burning Crusade came out about 4 years ago and there have been two expansions since. I do remember first arriving in Hellfire Peninsula - it was quite brutal, under-geared, stumbling among closely packed groups of hell boars, with massive fell reavers criss-crossing the lands and threatening to one shot you if you did not get out of their path. The dungeons were even more brutal. I am afraid you don't get that experience anymore in WoW. Levelling in current content (L80-85) is by the numbers; levelling in old content (L1-80) verges on the inane. They tried to make the heroic dungeons in the recent Cataclysm like Burning Crusade, and succeeded, but sadly there were too many complaints (and loss of subscriptions) so future ones are going to be dumbed down. It's like Blizzard are rushing players up to max level, then quickly gearing them up for raids, which are still a challenge but one which the rest of the game really does not prepare you for anymore.

Maybe I am just bad at Swtor, but I invariably find if I accidentally pull two packs I(hard to do, as you say, because of the spacing but it can happen if you try to skip packs), I die. If I fight two elites, I die. If I fight one elite and one strong opponent, I am likely to die unless I am very lucky. Even lesser fights, if I play less than optimally (e.g. let my companion pull aggro and die), I might die. I like it, I think you need some feeling of risk in an RPG but it is not a feeling I am familiar with from WoW. It may depend partly on your companion - healers make you feel secure in normal fights (you are getting healed and they are not, it scarcely feels fair), whereas with a dps, it feels more of a tense race to see which side drops first.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Been watching a live streamer named Towelliee on Twitch.tv play ToR for a while now to see what the game is like. Looks broken with recent patches fixing some stuff barely. Apparently according to Toweliee bags dropped solely on a random number generator and you could go for weeks without getting one new piece of armor or you might get the same thing again. Why would people even try if there is no guaranteed reward?

Oh also, /v/ seems to think that the "ToRtanic" is happening, but I don't where any numbers indicate that membership dropped after the trial month ended.

[Kekvit Irae]

I do have a problem with crafting. My Juggernaut is a Synthweaver, and i've yet to make anything worth equipping.

I'm Cybertech, and I'm the opposite. I craft armoring and mods all the time when I gain new levels. Since I'm running in mostly orange armor, it works out fine since I almost never need to upgrade equipment with found loot. Though, some of the crew skills do need balancing. I'm seeing a LOT of end game players running with nothing but Biochem.


My only real complaint with the game so far is the lack of any kind of a decent look-for-group system.

Dear god, yes. I want a dungeon finder just like WoW, but expanded so that you can choose companions if there are less than the required number of people for a flashpoint.

[Voigtkampf]

Yeah, the class mechanics will be nothing new to anyone who's played an MMO in the last ten years. I will say that, at least compared to Burning Crusade (which was the last Expansion I played for WoW) that the Sith Warrior is a lot easier. The way you fight battles in KotOR is very different than in WoW, simply because most of the trash mobs are ranged and the battlefields are relatively large and spread out. For some reason, I never feel like I'm taking a very big risk when i go solo questing in TOR, whereas solo questing with a warrior in WoW could get pretty dangerous.

A lot has changed since TBC in WoW. Last time I played my frost mage in arena, warriors would break my snares within seconds, and now, as a frost mage, you can spam frost snares basically every few seconds. Also, I am leveling my warrior, she is almost 82 now, and I am using the prot spec for it. Unlike before, its just as viable as arms or fury. Have I mentioned the self-healing ability of warriors these days? I won't even speak about the same thing for rogues now...

ToR related - as G-Cube mentioned, the lack of looking for group system is discouraging.

Oh, and a completely inoffensive name seems to have addressed me as /v/, I suppose.


Oh also, /v/ seems to think that the "ToRtanic" is happening, but I don't where any numbers indicate that membership dropped after the trial month ended.

I said nor claimed no such thing. I said that ToR, at this specific moment (probably in future as well) isn't interesting to me at all. As for the manipulation with sub numbers, everyone plays that game, so I don't care if ToR has 1, 2 or 5 million subscribers. I don't measure my personal (dis)like towards an MMO by the number of subscriptions. ToR will, in all probability, run for much longer, will earn their masters a lot of cash and will probably be the number 2 P2P MMO for years to come. But don't trust companies throwing numbers in your face. personally, I couldn't care less if WoW is being played by 10 or 100 or 1 million players, as long as I myself enjoy playing it.

As for the "haters", well, I wanted to love ToR, I really did. Was hoping that it would drag me away from WoW to something new. But after all the troubles I've had with Origin installation, the game activation (having played and reviewed most of MMO's out there, I got quite some experience in this) that was the most bugged and longwinded affair ever, the credit card issues, forced subscription to start playing (regardless of gametime of one month that comes with the game), response time from the support was a joke (rather poor one) and so on, I've lost my happy thoughts. To add to that BioWare banning people because of the dancing bug, the mysterious loss of the unsubscribe option from players accounts one month after the launch and banning of all who posted direct links on forums how to unsubscribe and deletion of those links, the horribly poorly management of the Ilum patch 1.1 PvP exploit and BioWare freezing in sight of the fiasco like a deer in front of the incoming car lights...

I don't hate ToR. I would have preferred KoToR 3 now, in the light of this game, but back in the day, I was looking forward to it. I simply think that the game is not good enough - at least at this point in time - to deserve an active subscription from me. Too many bad things in this game and the management around the game itself made me pass.

[Kekvit Irae]

Have I mentioned the self-healing ability of warriors these days? I won't even speak about the same thing for rogues now...

When I was playing my 85 Rogue in that Egyptian city dungeon whose name I forgot, our group had a bad pull, and everyone wiped except for me. I couldn't act like a coward and use my combat stealth to reset everything since I used it during the fight to ramp up the DPS, and I didn't want to accept defeat, so I stuck around and tanked all the mobs around me. Thanks to Cloak of Shadows, my interrupts and stuns, and Recuperate, I was actually doing quite well. It gave the Shaman enough time to self-rez himself and help out with healing me until everyone got back. Unfortunately, once my stuns wore off, the mobs I didn't engage went straight for the Shaman, so not only did I have to keep myself alive, I also had to keep the Shaman alive too. When all was said and done, both the Shaman and myself were still kicking (no pun intended) and all the mobs were dead at our feet. Everyone in the group was stunned to see how well Rogues could offtank in a pinch. Best quotes of the day were "oh wow" and "Rogues are OP :D"

Recuperate was one of the best things to happen to Rogues in a long time. While we have extremely high burst damage, we're also melee. Which means we are just like Warriors, only with crappy leather armor and low hit points. Having that self heal was vital to keeping us alive in heavy fighting when the AoEs started to hit. I'm not too keen on the nerfs Recuperate received, but I'll live. Especially since I don't play WoW anymore :P

[Voigtkampf]

I absolutely love open-world PvP, and my level 34 Sith Juggernaut has only encountered two republic players. I ganked them both, and it was fantastic, but one thing I've loved about every MMO I've ever played was the constant threat of higher level characters trying to kill you--and that's also just not there in this game.

Too much instancing/phasing. Age of Conan had that as well, and I didn't like it. When I recall the golden days of WoW, the fights in Southshore, Crossroads, Ashenvale... Open world PvP before there was any benefit from PvP, as well as no battlegrounds... To recall someone in Gchat calling out that he/she was being ganked, going over there to help, meeting more players from the opposite side, fighting four hours simply because it was fun!

Kekvit, just for clarification, I got nothing against Recuperate and rogues, I just mentioned that as an example how drastically WoW has changed during the years. Imagine anyone saying during vanilla "in TBC, rogues will have Recuperate", people would be on the street with pitchforks in a heartbeat, heh. Oh, I circumvented the "the game is broken and your class/spec is OP" argument entirely by simply leveling all the classes there were to max (or at least close there of). In that way, I never felt like I was a spokesman for a single class/spec. I enjoyed and still enjoy all the game's aspects.

[Kekvit Irae]

Kekvit, just for clarification, I got nothing against Recuperate and rogues, I just mentioned that as an example how drastically WoW has changed during the years. Imagine anyone saying during vanilla "in TBC, rogues will have Recuperate", people would be on the street with pitchforks in a heartbeat, heh. Oh, I circumvented the "the game is broken and your class/spec is OP" argument entirely by simply leveling all the classes there were to max (or at least close there of). In that way, I never felt like I was a spokesman for a single class/spec. I enjoyed and still enjoy all the game's aspects.

I know, I just felt like relating my own little nostalgia story. :P

[Voigtkampf]

Heh, I am probably threading all too carefully recently. Been following the angry crowds at various MMO portals all too closely recently. And yeah, it is nice to be a bit nostalgic from time to time.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Oh, and a completely inoffensive name seems to have addressed me as /v/, I suppose.
No. /v/ is a video game community from 4chan.org. Sorry about the confusion, I thought most people had heard of /v/.



I don't hate ToR. I would have preferred KoToR 3 now, in the light of this game, but back in the day, I was looking forward to it. I simply think that the game is not good enough - at least at this point in time - to deserve an active subscription from me. Too many bad things in this game and the management around the game itself made me pass.

I agree with this 100%. You sir, are right about everything.

[Voigtkampf]

No. /v/ is a video game community from 4chan.org. Sorry about the confusion, I thought most people had heard of /v/.

Aaah, that explains it, I fear 4chan and dare not thread anywhere near it. :sweatdrop:


I agree with this 100%. You sir, are right about everything.

Why, thank you, sir! But also, shame on you for introducing me to the temptation to put this in my signature. Must...try...stay...apparently...humble... :wall:

[johnhughthom]

As the first mmo I've given a fair crack of the whip, I've found SWTOR pretty enjoyable so far. Played a Consular up to level 38 or so, didn't do many Heroics as the server rarely had decent numbers on each planet. Decided to swap servers as I was pretty much playing a single player RPG and thought I may as well try to play it the way it was intended. Found a much more populated server and have reached Tatooine having done all the Heroics, one Flashpoint and all the space missions. The problem is, I'm now totally over-levelled, reached Taris five levels to high and thought it would drop down. Hitting Tatooine, I'm still four levels too high. I've read of other people complaining about this and the common answers seem to be don't do Heroics, don't go for bonuses (most of which you hit doing the quests naturally) and don't do space missions. My Consular, where I didn't do space missions, and only did a few heroics seemed to level up more in line with the area progression. Looking at the other players questing around me, most of them are a level or two below me, not as over-levelled, but still generally higher than the quests they are doing.

I doubt I'll bother playing any other characters if this is what comes from what I consider to be playing through the content naturally, I like at least some challenge to my games, and SWTOR could hardly be considered difficult even when levelling with the games intended progression.

[econ21]

John, I had the same problem being overlevelled around Taris. It bugged me a lot, especially early on, but you do get half experience for green quests, iirc, so to some extent it is self-correcting. I got to 50 on the last planet, so at the end, it did not feel too badly out of sync. I suspect it's less of a problem with alts, as you may have done many side quests on your main and are probably willing to be more ruthless moving on when quests turn green. My son felt less compelled to rescue every cat stuck up a tree (I guess that comes with playing a DS BH rather than LS JK) and if anything found the opposite to me - he needed to grind and backtrack a bit to get up to level.

[Major Robert Dump]

I am over leveled too because I take every quest and because I tend to spawn camp bosses when short on time, as going indoors is too laggy and I try not to group due to this, which means a lot of failed heroics, which means grinding my way through again and again until I am level high enough to mush the opposition. Right now I find I can solo 4+ heroics and flashpoints at @ 4 levels over if I play smart, but again the lag is an issue

[Kekvit Irae]

at @

http://www.pjlighthouse.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/at-star-wars-at-at-revell-star-wars.jpg

:)

[johnhughthom]

So the latest installment in my epic story of overlevelling. I've just reached Alderaan, recommended level of 28. I'm no longer four levels too high, nor five, yes I'm six levels above the quest zone. My own fault this time though, as I went on a Companion quest and ended up doing the Nar Shadaa bonus series, which is quite a chunky bit of content. I would only have been three levels over otherwise, so hopefully the gap will start to close. It was nice playing the game at the respective level for the content, not exactly difficult, but I couldn't charge in to every fight without even looking at the enemy.

[Kekvit Irae]

So the latest installment in my epic story of overlevelling. I've just reached Alderaan, recommended level of 28. I'm no longer four levels too high, nor five, yes I'm six levels above the quest zone. My own fault this time though, as I went on a Companion quest and ended up doing the Nar Shadaa bonus series, which is quite a chunky bit of content. I would only have been three levels over otherwise, so hopefully the gap will start to close. It was nice playing the game at the respective level for the content, not exactly difficult, but I couldn't charge in to every fight without even looking at the enemy.

Overleveling is not a bad thing if you're going solo. Some of the sidequests and class quests can be tough if you don't level up or bring a friend. Wait until you get to Hoth, then you'll wish you were overleveled. :P

[johnhughthom]

That video has made me want to start new characters, I hardly recognised any scene or character. Shows how much content there actually is.

You were right about Hoth, Kekvit. I stopped playing my Consular soon after I arrived there, so can't remember if the difficulty ramped up there, but it certainly is more enjoyable, combat wise, for my Trooper. With the stronger enemies I have to actually use some tactics to win battles, my rotation of two of my companions between planets has helped as well, I'm using the carbon copy of myself on Hoth, when the healer would be much more useful.

[Kekvit Irae]

I've played my Sith Assassin as a WoW Rogue for 44 levels, and my roommate (Sith Marauder, DPS) and I still couldn't finish the Foundry flashpoint. I switched to tank, and the difference is like night and day. Not only did we finish the Foundry, we got through with only two wipes.

And as for the Foundry itself...
OH
MY
GOD.
The inner Star Wars KOTOR fan in my squealed in delight. Not gonna spoil it, but the flashpoint is DEFINITELY worth running through if you're a fan of KOTOR (and you should be).

[Kekvit Irae]

Or you could read torhead :P

http://www.torhead.com/guide/leaks

[johnhughthom]

Choopah da poochy na way. Dweep Dweepay. Utini!

Translation:

I was enjoying it, despite being overlevelled the entire game, and was considering subscribing for at least another month playing through the Imperial storyline. Then I hit Corellia. Now pretty much every planet could be called dull and lifeless, but it was bearable, Corellia has bored the life out of me, so much so I've skipped the side quests after the first zone and stuck to the story quests, I never do that. It's supposed to be a war zone, but it's more of a ghost town. The final stage of the storyline should be epic, with more attention to detail than the previous, more incidentals, bigger set pieces. Instead it's as if they gave up and threw together the most boring piece of crap they could. On the last quest, will finish that and see how I feel.

edit: Okay, final battle on Corellia for the Trooper is a buggy mess. Constantly unable to target enemies right in front of me as I cannot see them apparently, then they will suddenly get full health and start attacking me, then it happens again. Sub cancelled.

[johnhughthom]

I don't think I've ever played a game where I've changed my mind about it so often in a short period of time. I decided to have a quick look at an Imperial playththrough before my subscription expired, and I was shocked at how many more players there were than on the Republic side. I knew it was more popular, but not that it was so lop-sided. Grouping is so much easier, virtually no waiting around, compared to the Republic where you generally had to ask 3 or 4 times at least before finding somebody. Decided to give the game another month, I can't say I've found the Bounty Hunter questline any more interesting than the Trooper's, though at least it's not the Mass Effect storyline regurgitated, like most people say, early days though.

[johnhughthom]

Playing on The Progenitor, EU rp server. I considered rolling on a US server, as I play in the early hours of the morning quite a lot and the US servers appear to be busier (never seen a queue on an EU server), when I was switching after my first character but decided against it. Nothing at all to do with my opinion of Americans as loud and brash who will spoil my immersion in the game... :clown:

I've always been a goody two shoes in rpgs, and thought most people were the same, which is why the imbalance surprised me. As an example of my two shoedness, I've completed the Baldur's Gate games at least ten times right through, but only managed an evil character to the end of the first game. I do wonder how many Imperial players are playing a light sided character?

Nice to see Bioware engaging with the community, though I'm sure people will find some reason to complain that they answered 12 questions instead of 10. I do so love whiny forums for a bit of a giggle, SWTOR forum is among the best.

[Kekvit Irae]

Honestly, I can't think of a worse forum. It's awful. :dizzy2:

WoW forums during Wrath of the Lich King.
Check and mate.

[johnhughthom]

After finding the Bounty Hunter a very different playing experience, abilities wise, from the Trooper, despite supposedly being mirror classes, I decided to have a go at trying the opening classes through the opening planet. I have to say I was impressed with the different feel of each, there is more replay potential in the game than a lot of people give it credit for.

[Kekvit Irae]

Finished up the Sith Inquisitor storyline after a two week hiatus, then canceled my account. I don't think I'll be going back.

[Major Robert Dump]

Since I really couldn't "play" due to bandwidth and lame laptop (as I found out when I got to Tatooine and tried to PVP), I hedged my bets and found an RP PVP server that had a decent forum community. I started 5 chars with dabbled around to get each past the second planet, to the point of getting the ship droid.

Then I began leveling all of my gathering and crafting, while using my "main" to get money on space missions. I did no side missions up to this point so he is not overlelvled.
Also, this main is all gathering skills to provide for the crafters

Meanwhile, with all toons at the level 16 mark, I have a cybertech, armstech,amormech and biotech all in the 250+ range, my investigation, diplomacy and 2 underworld traders are at 325+, and my two slicers (one my main) are pushing 400, My mains bioanlysis and scavenging is in the 300s, and my alts scavengers are in the high 200s. I based the crafting skills on what classes got what bonuses, with 2 smugglers, 2 troopers and 1 JK. I have no interest in doing a jedi sage.

So pretty much all I do is hop from alt to alt and craft, RE, and sell stuff. It's really the only way I can play with such crap facilites and less than an hour to burn each night if even that. The whole goal here was to be able to provide for my own equipment once I got to the point where I could play for reals and start doing pvp, at which point that will probably be how I level everyone except my main, because I kind of like the smuggler story.

[Voigtkampf]

The word is out on the virtual street that the Bioware is considering converting TOR to F2P. Surprised much? (http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/06/15/bioware-considering-free-to-play-for-star-wars-the-old-republic/)

[Beskar]

It has been confirmed by EA.

I am so happy I didn't buy it.

[johnhughthom]

It has been confirmed by EA.

I am so happy I didn't buy it.

Why exactly does the game going free to play make you happy you didn't buy it? I got a good three months play time out of the game, and mostly enjoyed it, the purchase price and sub was was more than good value for the hours I got out of it. My subscription has just expired and I doubt I'll be back, even if it does go free to play. The fact that it is going F2P has absolutely no bearing on the enjoyment I had playing the game, so how does it validate your decision not to buy it?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It has been confirmed by EA.

I am so happy I didn't buy it.


So am I, but I do believe this news may spell the end of my degree!

[johnhughthom]

Don't want to spoil it, but I'm wondering if this "going F2P" that's been mentioned is just the free play to level 15 that was announced a while ago?

[Chaotix]

Why exactly does the game going free to play make you happy you didn't buy it? I got a good three months play time out of the game, and mostly enjoyed it, the purchase price and sub was was more than good value for the hours I got out of it. My subscription has just expired and I doubt I'll be back, even if it does go free to play. The fact that it is going F2P has absolutely no bearing on the enjoyment I had playing the game, so how does it validate your decision not to buy it?

You might have missed what he was getting at here...

I think Tiaexz meant something along the lines of "so glad I didn't spend ~$80 on it when I can get to play it for free". A sentiment I kind of agree with. Charging a hefty price tag like that and then a subscription on top is just a little be asinine (which is what EA is known for).

I got super-hyped when the game first came out, but the price shot down my hopes - there were better, cheaper games out there. But if it is really going to be F2P like they claim, then... I'd love a chance to try it out. In fact, I would probably buy the game full price if I didn't have to pay a monthly subscription, too.

[Voigtkampf]

Don't want to spoil it, but I'm wondering if this "going F2P" that's been mentioned is just the free play to level 15 that was announced a while ago?

Nope, this is more of the line of "going free to play all the way".

The question, however, is how will they make their F2P model. Considering who their bosses are and Bioware's complete ignorance in the MMO genre, the switch to F2P model might kill the game even quicker than leaving it on subs. Star Trek Online model would be fine, but I somehow got the feeling that the game will be F2P with the "amazing additional option to purchase the ability to move to your left, and not only to your right!!!"... :on_void:

[Beskar]

You might have missed what he was getting at here...

I think Tiaexz meant something along the lines of "so glad I didn't spend ~$80 on it when I can get to play it for free". A sentiment I kind of agree with. Charging a hefty price tag like that and then a subscription on top is just a little be asinine (which is what EA is known for).

I got super-hyped when the game first came out, but the price shot down my hopes - there were better, cheaper games out there. But if it is really going to be F2P like they claim, then... I'd love a chance to try it out. In fact, I would probably buy the game full price if I didn't have to pay a monthly subscription, too.

You got my sentiment exactly right. :bow:

[Voigtkampf]

That actually wasn't the real problem with TOR. The problem was, in relative terms, that TOR copied WoW and did a bad job at it. There was no endgame. There were no LFG tools. A mere ton of features and content were missing from the game that should have been there from the start.

To make an easy reference, let us say both BioWare and Blizzard were making cars. Blizzard made WoW-mobile and kept working on it, releasing new upgrades and versions all the time, and at the end, we had a full, mature vehicle. BioWare said, oh, we gonna copy that car and make it even better! The problem was, when it came out, the Bio-mobile didn't have AC, no MP3 player, no adjustable seats and no fifth gear. That about sums it up. People didn't drop TOR cause it was like WoW - hell, I would love another game of the scope and technical manner of WoW! - but because it actually failed to live up to all he features that WoW has and has also underperformed in the areas BioWare hinted they would excel at (storyline and narration, oh boy)...

For the record, I am not a TOR hater - I wanted this game to be good very badly. But TOR is a fail in so many aspects that it makes me a really, really said bear...

[Monk]

You're right, of course. On release it was more of a WoW: TBC clone than a WoW: Everything Else clone. TBC was the last expansion I played for WoW, so it took me awhile to realize the game's problems.

It doesn't help that Bioware-Austin is incompetent. I played for a good number of months as a closed beta tester, not just a weekend tester. Some of the bugs I reported over 8 months ago are still in the game to this day. Laziness or incompetence, take your pick. I was absolutely dumbstruck when I poked my head in around April when they gave everyone free play time and saw the very same bugs.

Sights like this (note the message of the day):

https://i.imgur.com/8DrmU.jpg

Are common in the game - SWTOR isn't in beta anymore and it shows no signs of getting any better which is really the crux of why i decided to leave around February

While I enjoyed my time in both the beta and in the retail game earlier this year, I'm extremely disappointed in Bioware by their handling of their first, and hopefully last, MMO. I didn't even mind the fact it was a wow clone due to how the classes worked and the story and questing system. Healing as an operative was probably the most fun i've ever had as an mmo healer, and i've had my share of experience in that area.

I think SWTOR could have been a great game even being a wow-clone, but it will never get there as long as Bioware is in charge. Maybe the game going F2P will change that, but I doubt it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

You know, the more I think about it the more I think the problem is that it just isn't KOTOR4, with KOTOR3 being the time period they showed in the FMV trailers - the game they should have made.

[Voigtkampf]

Well, it is official now, TOR is going free-to-play. (http://www.strategyprime.net/star-wars-the-old-republic-going-free-to-play/)

[Major Robert Dump]

I forgot I owned this game. Damn, I think I have been paying monthly for it and didn't even realize. I lost focus when I got back to the states.