Considering Ptolomai campaign at some point

[Nightmare]

I've got several other campaigns going at the moment, so this will have to wait, but I'm considering a go at Ptolomai at some point. The reason (so you know what's motivating me) is that I'd like to give one of these successor states a go, but the Selucids are always the big bad guy in all my campaigns (ha) so I'd rather play someone "not them."

I'd like to know the pros and cons of these guys, comparing them with the Selucids or Macadonia or a "similar" faction (don't know if the Epirotes would qualify). My guess is that there is a rather large core of troop types that are in common with all these successor states (levy pikes etc), and perhaps some faction specific troops?

The main question I have is whether the Ptolemai are "suckier" from a troop aspect (troop types, faction-specific/exclusive troops), or lack stuff the others get - say heavy cavalry or cataphracts or whatever. If they are lacking in some area, is it made up in another area?

I guess a final question would be for you to rate this campaign in terms of being "interesting" or not.

Thanks.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I have never played the Ptolemioi and it wouldn't surprise me if many others have not as well considering they always seem to dominate the AS in my experience and well, they are comparatively easy to play. However, I can say this about their troops from fighting them in campaign but also from multiplayer experiences. Recruitment is a little more difficult for them since they use Machimoi Phalangites as their levy and these are only available in Egypt, not sure about the Levant. Otherwise their armies are similar to AS with three exceptions: far different auxiliaries based on their starting regions, lack of superheavy cavalry, and different elites. The Basilikon Agema I actually prefer to the typical Hellenistic elites because they have an AP secondary attack but you will regret the fact that they are only retrainable in Egypt. Those missions to Macedonia and Babylon won't be nearly as fruitful unit-wise for the Ptollies as they might for other Hellenic factions. You will also lean heavily on Galatikoi Klerouchoi for good reason. They are one of the best heavy infantry units in the game; basically Neitos on steroids. Ptollie cavalry is good but not as good as AS. Comparative to Makedonia and Epeiros I would say as their Agema cavalry is relatively useful but again limited recruitment-wise. This being said, Ptollies can get decent auxiliaries like Iudioi, Machimoi, and Ethiopian Archers. Just don't expect the dominant auxiliaries that the AS gets access to such as Dahae horse archers or Guild Warriors.

[seleucid empire]

i dont think ptolemy is easier on harder difficulties. I always thought ptolemies would be easier than AS but when i played H/M i had the worst time and quit in 250s. The AS always bribes side and sidon and takes tarsus. its impossible to rush antioch because theres this rebel stack lead by a general from kyrene who beseiges parantion and several rebel half stacks who attack dispoles and memphis so it takes 4 years to deal with all of that and by that time they've taken side, sidon and tarsus which means you need to attack cyrene for more income and then carthage comes along

[seleucid empire]

oh and also at that point the AS becomes grey death and sends stacks of better quality phalanxes which your early cavalry dont have much effect on

[rickinator9]

Tarsus and side are dead meat anyway. Seleucids will take the anyway. Now you will want to take out Antioch as quickly as possible, as the seleucids can recruit pezhetairoi from start there.

To the OP, why don't you try Bactria, they mostly have the same unit roster as the seleucids and I found them a lot of fun to play.

[Arjos]

Ptolemaioi have quite a secured base, once you control the whole north-east Africa...
There are scripted invasions at Kyrene by the Karthadastim and the Seleukidai will knock on your door constantly, with the Sabyn joining the party later on...
In overall they are a very rich faction with decent units, but their gov expansion is quite limited compared to other Epigonoi...
But they all share culture, so you could let your enemies build up their infrastructures while you conquer in Africa (that's what I did)...

In the end, like all factions, they have their own flavour and make an interesting game...
It's a dealer's choice though, if you don't like them, you can always change :)

[seleucid empire]

even after i conquer all of eastern africa including meroe and nubia im still short of cash and the AS conquer bostra so they can bypass jerusalem and sneak an army into alexandria

[Nightmare]

I have never played the Ptolemioi and it wouldn't surprise me if many others have not as well considering they always seem to dominate the AS in my experience and well, they are comparatively easy to play. However, I can say this about their troops from fighting them in campaign but also from multiplayer experiences. Recruitment is a little more difficult for them since they use Machimoi Phalangites as their levy and these are only available in Egypt, not sure about the Levant. Otherwise their armies are similar to AS with three exceptions: far different auxiliaries based on their starting regions, lack of superheavy cavalry, and different elites. The Basilikon Agema I actually prefer to the typical Hellenistic elites because they have an AP secondary attack but you will regret the fact that they are only retrainable in Egypt. Those missions to Macedonia and Babylon won't be nearly as fruitful unit-wise for the Ptollies as they might for other Hellenic factions. You will also lean heavily on Galatikoi Klerouchoi for good reason. They are one of the best heavy infantry units in the game; basically Neitos on steroids. Ptollie cavalry is good but not as good as AS. Comparative to Makedonia and Epeiros I would say as their Agema cavalry is relatively useful but again limited recruitment-wise. This being said, Ptollies can get decent auxiliaries like Iudioi, Machimoi, and Ethiopian Archers. Just don't expect the dominant auxiliaries that the AS gets access to such as Dahae horse archers or Guild Warriors.

Hmmm, sounding less and less like my cup of tea. For one thing, I certainly don't want an easy campaign (one of my current ones is Koinon Hellenon). Also, doesn't seem like the units are interesting enough, the cavalry seems lacking, etc.

How about Baktria? Would you recommend them? I'm guessing they are kinda-sorta successor, but probably have some twists like very heavy cavalry, elephants, and a challenge perhaps?

[Nightmare]

To the OP, why don't you try Bactria, they mostly have the same unit roster as the seleucids and I found them a lot of fun to play.

Ah, didn't see this the first time, but it seems like my thoughts exactly! (see above)

[Ca Putt]

Baktria are a bit more challengeing, they have a great unit roster which also includes alot of "odd" units, they don't have Elite phalanxes tho. "downside" is that they have quite annoying neighbors - the AS and the Saka rauka, the Parthians could be annoying but they seldom are.

The reason for Ptolemies being considered easier(than the Seleucids) is quite simple: they have less and less dangerous enemies, that do not directly threaten their coreland. The Arche has to cope with Hay, Pahlava, Balkh, Ptolemies and pontos from the beginning and Koinon Hellenon, saba and Saka rauka once they get past initial problems. the Ptolies actually have direct acces to the Seleucid core lands, in Syria and mesopotamia. The only initial enemy of the Ptolemies is the Empire, who don't threaten egypt but the levant and Asia minor. Later on conflicts with Saba and Karchedon are likely but the Carthagians are far away and the Sabeans, well they have skirmishers.
And about the roster, it's somewhat a toned down AS roster, apart from galatians there is not much new to find but you initial possibilities are just as good. The AoR of most units is worse than their regular counterparts, which really does hurt expansion. The Pharaos may not be able to train Cataphracts, but at least they get the Hellenic heavy lancer which many people prefer over actual cataphracts and the semi hellenic light lancer which is only availible there and in Illyria.

[athanaric]

How about Baktria? Would you recommend them? I'm guessing they are kinda-sorta successor, but probably have some twists like very heavy cavalry, elephants, and a challenge perhaps?
A Baktrian campaign can be very easy (after a challenging start) or very hard, depending on your luck and your expansion policy.
Unit wise, they're different from other Hellenistic factions in that they
- have a stronger Iranian and Indian component (also mixed ethnicity units)
- are the only Hellenistic faction with factional horse archers (which are also well armoured and carry an AP sword, making them a unique unit in EB)
- are more heavily (hurr derp) involved with cataphracts and other armoured cavalry, their reformed bodyguard being the best armoured unit in the game and arguably the toughest bodyguard unit
- possess no elite phalanx unit, their best phalangitai being Pezhetairoi (which are still quite powerful). They get a bunch of funny hoplite variants instead.
Also two versions of Peltastai, the regular one and one (Indohellenikoi) with a spear. And easy access to Elephants and other Indian stuff... once you get past some very nasty Eleutheroi garrisons.

If you want to make insane heavy metal armies, Baktria is probably a good choice.

[Blxz]

Don't listen to the haters =)
Ptolomies are actually quite fun. They are a successor state but with just that hint of variety to make them fun. In terms of auxillaries they have access nearby to nubian and ethiopian units of varying types (spears and bows). The saba are just across the pond and the seleucid empire shares the same barracks as you so expansion in that direction can be quite nice in terms of seeing your units available.

The ptolomies main weakness of course is recruitment. And if you wait until EB2 comes out I expect that weakness will double due to the speed of replenishment of units. In hostory they needed troops so badly and the natives were so unreliable that they resorted to importing and settling galatians in the Fayuum depression. This creates an interesting game in that you can very easily have celtic components, wild native nubian components and phalanx component armies.

Their main strength is both their easily defensible position and sickenly wealthy northern cities.

[athanaric]

IIRC the Ptolies can also train African Bush Elephants. They're the least reliable unit in the game (pitiful morale), but also the physically most powerful one (together with Indian Cataphract Elephants, who have superior armour and morale though). Certainly a hilarious and very challenging unit which I've had mixed success with when playing Saba (with Saba, they're actually less funny because Saba can't afford to lose battles). You can either use them as an absurdly expensive missile platform or as a mobile ram that might or might not end up as a suicide bomber. With good support they can be very effective though.

[Nightmare]

Baktria are a bit more challengeing...

"Challenging" is my middle name. That's what I like. I blow through most of these campaigns so fast on VH it's not even funny.


If you want to make insane heavy metal armies, Baktria is probably a good choice.

Heavy metal is my other middle name :-) Both music variety and army variety.

@whoever was talking about bush elephants, I put those to great use in my Carthage campaign.

[stratigos vasilios]

"Challenging" is my middle name.

Danger is my middle name...


Heavy metal is my other middle name :-) Both music variety and army variety.

You should join the EB Metal Heads group (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/group.php?groupid=142).

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

If you like a challenge and metal try out Hai. They get cataphracts and are much more of a challenge then any Hellenistic faction.

[seleucid empire]

what about their economy?? ptolemies have no mines unless they spend time going into ethiopia. im having financial difficulties form just supporting an army of levies and a half stack in cyrene against carthage

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I think one of the Nile regions gets mines, Memphis or the settlement south perhaps? Also you get crazy tax income and trade income from Alexandria and the Eastern Mediterranean is incredibly profitable. I recommend attacking Rhodes early and then re-allying with the KH.

[Blxz]

Danger is my middle name...



Frederick is my middle name. Not quite so daring as 'Danger' or 'Challenging' but far more useful when applying for a job. =)

[seleucid empire]

I think one of the Nile regions gets mines, Memphis or the settlement south perhaps? Also you get crazy tax income and trade income from Alexandria and the Eastern Mediterranean is incredibly profitable. I recommend attacking Rhodes early and then re-allying with the KH.
you dont get trade income cause the trade routes from alexandria go to sidon and antioch which the seleucids control (sidon gets bribed)

[Blxz]

Trade routes are not fixed. They will go between whatever coastal cities they can find that are eligible. If need be just get trade rights with the Macedonian and KH. Problem solved.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

you dont get trade income cause the trade routes from alexandria go to sidon and antioch which the seleucids control (sidon gets bribed)

I found making peace with the Seleucids very early on in the campaign can be just as profitable as taking towns from them, since Ptolemies don't need a huge army if they are not at war with Seleukia. Giving me time to build up my towns. I took Damascus very early, and then made peace for a while, waiting until they attack me again.

[Blxz]

I found making peace with the Seleucids very early on in the campaign can be just as profitable as taking towns from them, since Ptolemies don't need a huge army if they are not at war with Seleukia. Giving me time to build up my towns. I took Damascus very early, and then made peace for a while, waiting until they attack me again.

Force diplomacy?

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Force diplomacy?

Yes, usually. I try to recreate the history of the numerous Syrian Wars and have the wars ending on the historical dates. I like lots of short wars with the AI, instead of one long war.

[seleucid empire]

i really dont like using fd, it tempts me to cheat and make parthians my protectorates. i used to use it on carthage cause i saw no reason that they should attack cyrene when they have 4 provinces in span and own all of sicily. and also i just build 8 untis of pandopti phalanx and autocalc when they attack cyrene. they are now gold chevroned and have beaten about 20 full stacks of carthage. the carthage ai is srsly retarded

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

I think using FD is best used as a reasonable, sensible trade-off. I get peace with the AI whenever I want, but in return, I don't blitz or destroy them. So although as Ptolemies I get peace with Seleucia using FD, in return, I don't take Antioch off them. Which for Seleucid AI is a big advantage, since that is a rich city with excellent recruitment.

I don't use FD as a means of saving myself when the AI is about to wipe me out - that's cheating. Only strong factions are entitled to have good diplomatic outcomes - the weak must suffer.

I've never tried making an AI faction a protectorate - but if I did, I would then have only minimal garrisons on its borders, so that the AI would be tempted to betray me in the future.

[Sapper]

I have never played the Ptolemioi and it wouldn't surprise me if many others have not as well considering they always seem to dominate the AS in my experience and well, they are comparatively easy to play. However, I can say this about their troops from fighting them in campaign but also from multiplayer experiences. Recruitment is a little more difficult for them since they use Machimoi Phalangites as their levy and these are only available in Egypt, not sure about the Levant. Otherwise their armies are similar to AS with three exceptions: far different auxiliaries based on their starting regions, lack of superheavy cavalry, and different elites. The Basilikon Agema I actually prefer to the typical Hellenistic elites because they have an AP secondary attack but you will regret the fact that they are only retrainable in Egypt. Those missions to Macedonia and Babylon won't be nearly as fruitful unit-wise for the Ptollies as they might for other Hellenic factions. You will also lean heavily on Galatikoi Klerouchoi for good reason. They are one of the best heavy infantry units in the game; basically Neitos on steroids. Ptollie cavalry is good but not as good as AS. Comparative to Makedonia and Epeiros I would say as their Agema cavalry is relatively useful but again limited recruitment-wise. This being said, Ptollies can get decent auxiliaries like Iudioi, Machimoi, and Ethiopian Archers. Just don't expect the dominant auxiliaries that the AS gets access to such as Dahae horse archers or Guild Warriors.

With all due respect to Sir Robin I think you should be careful in taking the advice of someone who freely admits he has never actually played the Ptolomaioi. I have played them a number of times and I feel that they are certainly worth considering. However, before looking at the strategic aspects, Sir Robin makes some good points about Ptolomaioi units and I would like to add my halfpenny worth to that first.

The Ptolomaioi are of course Diadochi and therefore their unit list has all the usual suspects of Hellenic troops plus Makadonian style phalangists but there are some interesting variations, and not just in elites. So that you get Red Sea Hoplites as well as Galatian Heavy Swordsmen and Native Egyptian Cavalry, which are pretty good. The Machimoi Phalangites and the Ptolomaic Elite Phalanxes can indeed only be recruited in Egypt, but so what? Isn't that realistic? When playing any of the Diadochi the core of my "everyday" armies are largely Klerouchoi Phalangitai and Thorakitai anyway and the Ptolomaioi can recruit these as widely as anyone else. As regards heavy cavalry you do get Ptolomaic Heavy Cavalry which although not quite as good as Lonchophoroi Hippies are pretty good and do look cool. The Ptolomaic Royal Guard are an excellent Hoplite like unit. Finally, access to Ethiopia and Arabia allows for some very interesting and useful auxiliaries plus elephants.

Strategically the Ptolomaioi are quite well placed. They have a rich and secure base in the Nile Valley and a number of rebel settlements close by ripe for conquest. However, war with the AS is almost inevitable (almost, but see below!) and Side and Tarsos are dead meat as a result. Carthage will fall out with you over Kyrene at some point too. The war with the AS can be fun and is certainly demanding, depending on the level you play on. Capturing Antiocheia early is a given I believe and the real problem then becomes the inability to end the war (without Forced Diplomacy) anywhere short of complete conquest of the AS. In most of my campaigns I have ended up being drawn further and further into the AS and not necessarily in directions I would have chosen to go. Fighting the same types of troops over and over again can get a bit tedious too.

In my latest campaign I decided to have a change. I retrenched at the outset (aka retreated!), allowing Side and Tarsos to go and gave both Sidon and Hierosolyma to Carthage, which they eventually accepted. Result - no border with the AS, and peace! I then concentrated on expanding to the south, the rebel elephants in Ethiopia were great fun to fight, Akontistai proving to be useful after all! Then I invaded Arabia, in the process finding out you cannot build ships in any of your Red Sea ports but the Nile Canal allows ships to move down from the Med. Its now 229BC, I am finally at war with Carthage and on my way to take Lepki, and still at peace with the AS. My plan is to conquer Arabia and then sail to India eventually taking on the AS through Persia. I am fighting a lot of different troop types and also getting access to new auxiliaries. As a Diadochi its good to be fighting Carthage for a change and I am also looking forward to India as I had great fun there in a previous Baktria campaign.

My advice would be to give the Ptolomaioi a go, they have everything a Diadochi has to offer plus some interesting variations in units and geography and some different enemies.

[athanaric]

My plan is to conquer Arabia and then sail to India eventually taking on the AS through Persia. I am fighting a lot of different troop types and also getting access to new auxiliaries. As a Diadochi its good to be fighting Carthage for a change and I am also looking forward to India as I had great fun there in a previous Baktria campaign.Ptolemaioi recruitment options in India are not nearly as good as those of the AS, Saka, Baktria, Pahlava, or Saba, though.

[Nightmare]

You should join the EB Metal Heads group.

We'll do! Thanks!

So I started a Baktria campaign. Took a look around the map, and any neutral cities around just seemed way too heavily-garrisoned and too far away to go that route. So I split my starting army up into two groups. Sent one north and took two Selucid cities there (the ones that look like Saka tribal cities) and one south and took about 3 Selucid cities all in a line.

That's about all I've done so far. Am I doing this right?

[Sapper]

We'll do! Thanks!

So I started a Baktria campaign. Took a look around the map, and any neutral cities around just seemed way too heavily-garrisoned and too far away to go that route. So I split my starting army up into two groups. Sent one north and took two Selucid cities there (the ones that look like Saka tribal cities) and one south and took about 3 Selucid cities all in a line.

That's about all I've done so far. Am I doing this right?

Looks good to me. Baktria is one of those factions where attacking the rebels first is not optimal. You are always going to get into a war with AS so do it on your terms. My advice is to make Baktra as strong as you can, the AS will attack it at every oportunity, build mines as soon as you can too, and Kophen should be the first rebel city you take for just that purpose, and get into India because its rich. Also, plan to be fighting the AS for ever because without resorting to forced diplomacy you are doomed to do so.

[athanaric]

We'll do! Thanks!

So I started a Baktria campaign. Took a look around the map, and any neutral cities around just seemed way too heavily-garrisoned and too far away to go that route. So I split my starting army up into two groups. Sent one north and took two Selucid cities there (the ones that look like Saka tribal cities) and one south and took about 3 Selucid cities all in a line.

That's about all I've done so far. Am I doing this right?No. The Saka will attack you.
But you can still win the campaign. Just make sure to garrison your two northern cities with some archers and/or slingers and spearmen (preferrably Parthian Spearmen). Persian Archers, Persian Archer-Spearmen, Eastern Slingers or Hellenic Slingers are good, but don't use Toxotai. They look nice but are almost useless against the Saka.
Also try to build stone walls in your frontier cities, to provide better platforms for your missile troops.

It was a good idea though to send the other army south. You should be able to defeat the Seleukids there, moreso if you can keep your alliance with Parthia.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Ptolemaioi recruitment options in India are not nearly as good as those of the AS, Saka, Baktria, Pahlava, or Saba, though.

I don't think India is part of the Ptolemy victory conditions, though, so I guess Ptolemies don't really need good recruitment there. There's always mercs.

[Ca Putt]

For baktria:

North - dangerous
East - Ideal
South - good
West - DO NOT GO WEST!

at least not at first, or if you cant resist, you will have to whipe out the Pajama Pahlavi quick but they generally dislike you, when you take antiochia margiane, or however that temptingly close settlement to the west is called. War with the Seleucids comes either way, the saka are a very likely enemy but the Pahlava are not likely to attack you if you leave your hands of that city. Afterall that would rob you of all the fun you'd have fighting them Cataphract vs Cataphract^^

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I did this before as AS when I took Egypt so I think the same would work for Ptollies. Leave Cyrene rebel and instead build a few forts in the gaps between mountains and the sea around the city so that Carthage can't fit any armies in that way. They won't attack you since you don't share a border and instead will stand there and eventually wander off. It will cost about 1500 a turn in Pantodapoi or Akontistai upkeep, something you may come close to recouping through trade with Carthage's cities themselves. It also allows you to focus solely in one direction; for my AS empire that was into Greece, for the Ptollies that would be against the AS.

[Nightmare]

Looks good to me. Baktria is one of those factions where attacking the rebels first is not optimal. You are always going to get into a war with AS so do it on your terms. My advice is to make Baktra as strong as you can, the AS will attack it at every oportunity, build mines as soon as you can too, and Kophen should be the first rebel city you take for just that purpose, and get into India because its rich. Also, plan to be fighting the AS for ever because without resorting to forced diplomacy you are doomed to do so.

By the way, Sapper, thanks for those words on the Ptolemai campaign. Will definitely give them a whirl too.

I always plan on fighting the AS forever anytime I'm anywhere near them. That never changes. Also, I never use forced diplomacy because I don't even have the mod which allows that.

[moonburn]

with the baktrians i use the clam aproach i take marakanda and gava haomavarga with proper usage of the lower level phalangitai and then go for kophen the saka are hard to kill but they are diplomatically weaklings so you can normally get peace and a few setlements aslong as you´re not at war with anyone else (i got sulek like that and was able to break their nomadic alliance no allies and having to fight you while they´re your only enemy turns them into pushovers) ofc once you go to war with the seulekids you´re screwed everyone will turn on you i normally do an anphibean attack land around charax and go for babylonia seulekeia and antiocheia once those mics are destroyed and those cities sacked and with every single last building destroying the seulekids can no longer send at you their elites and you get the money needed for the mine upgrades

[Nightmare]

So I started up a Selucid campaign just so I can get a look at the start position. I must say I'm not used to running such a huge empire right at the start - my previous campaigns include such massive starting empires as Casse and Koinon Hellenon!

At any rate, hypothetically-speaking, were I to take the "advice" (cough) of some and contemplate starting up such a campaign as the evil Arche Selukids (NOT SAYING I WOULD!), could you throw me some opening moves or strats (cover several), some things to watch out for, some pitfalls, some inevitable things that are gonna happen, etc? My guess is, blitz someone if possible (Pahlva, Pontos, etc), or pull back to a defensive position?

Just off the top of my head, it looks like those 2 small towns bordering the Saka are gonna be toast sooner rather than later. For me, were I to make an opening move now (NOT SAYING I WILL!) I'd probably pull all the garrison troops, destroy whatever buildings I could, raise taxes to 100%, and watch the fireworks from afar. Comments? What say you?

Next thing I'm noticing is the Pahlva breathing down my neck at the city bordering his lands. Don't know if it's possible to scrape together enough forces from the hinterlands to send over there in time or not. My first guess is pull most of the garisson, leaving 1 cheap unit there, and see what could arrive from other cities within the next several turns? What say you?

I guess the 3rd and 4th things to deal with in the open would be Pontos and Egypt. Don't really have many ideas there except "send troops from within to those borders."

Unlike some campaigns, looks like this one could be one starting out as "pull back, lick your wounds, shore up some defenses, and proceed from there?" Retrenchment!

Your thoughts?

[Ca Putt]

As far as I know Pulling back and regrouping is one of the most popular and probably most effective start for the AS, some people prefer to use the troops there to whipe out Pahlava or hold out but I think letting them go does not hurt toomuch afterall all your usefull provinces lie westwards of Persepolis. Some people even abandon everything but mesopotamia^^.
(as you already noticed) With the AS you start as the big bully who everyone (but macedon) hates you have the strongest troops and the biggest territory to start with.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

My two tips for starting an AS campaign are:

Turn 1. Move your archer unit out of Asaak and attack the nearby Pahlavan army. Either fight this hopeless battle or withdraw immediately. Because you attack first, proving your determination to fight, this allows you to keep Bactria, Pontos and Hayasdan as your allies instead of them all deserting you when Pahlava attacks you first at the end of the first turn. Also, recruit a diplomat in Antiochia-Margiane.

Turn 2. Destroy all buildings in Marakanda and Alexandria-Eschate and pull out the garrisons. Move the new diplomat to Bactra and give the rebellious, worthless towns to your Bactrian allies. (You may need to use Force Diplomacy to get them to accept.) Now defending those towns from the Saka juggernaut is Bactria's problem, not yours - and you can make peace with the Saka since you don't have a border with them anymore. And this will keep Bactria occupied too.

[Stark]

What's the benefit of being allied with someone? They don't go to war with you, which would be the obvious perk. I know you can fight battles together, but that's extremely rare situation. I assume you get some relations bonus, but does someone know the exact benefits of alliance status?

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

What's the benefit of being allied with someone? They don't go to war with you, which would be the obvious perk. I know you can fight battles together, but that's extremely rare situation. I assume you get some relations bonus, but does someone know the exact benefits of alliance status?

Military access, allowing you to move armies through their territory without them getting upset, seems to me to be the main benefit of having allies.

[seleucid empire]

i think you start off with military access to pontus bactria and parthia but if you break alliance with them it is almost impossible to get access back even if you ally with them again. i dont see why you would need military access tho, has anyone here found it useful? i imagine there would be some trade bonuses if you border them? but im just guessing

[athanaric]

Turn 2. Destroy all buildings in Marakanda and Alexandria-Eschate and pull out the garrisons. Move the new diplomat to Bactra and give the rebellious, worthless towns to your Bactrian allies. (You may need to use Force Diplomacy to get them to accept.) Now defending those towns from the Saka juggernaut is Bactria's problem, not yours - and you can make peace with the Saka since you don't have a border with them anymore. And this will keep Bactria occupied too.
Better idea yet - leave those garrisons where they are and offer the settlements to Baktria as a gift, along with a small sum of money or map information. For some reason, the AI only accepts this if the garrison is in place and not roaming around the province. If Baktria accepts, your garrisons will pull out automatically.

[Nightmare]

So I gamed this out a bit just to see what was possible. My objective this test session was to simply see if I could shore up my borders without a fight. Of course Pahlva attacks you at Asaak the first round. How to avoid this? By giving it away, but how? Your only diplomat must get to another faction before this round is over, and the only faction in range is... the Ptolomies! So I went to him and asked him to take it. He refused, so I asked him again, also offering 3000 credits (all I had) plus map. He took it, LOL.

After giving Marakanda and Alexandria-Eschate to Bactria the next round as suggested above, that almost shored me up completely. Unfortunately, within a round or two Pahlva attacked a guy I had standing outside Antiocheia-Margaine and another guy I had at the border of Zadrakata. This tells me that I need to attempt giving away those cities to Bactria as well, and see what happens.

I'll game it out later and report back, unless someone here already knows what happens.

[Sapper]

Better idea yet - leave those garrisons where they are and offer the settlements to Baktria as a gift, along with a small sum of money or map information. For some reason, the AI only accepts this if the garrison is in place and not roaming around the province. If Baktria accepts, your garrisons will pull out automatically.

Now this is very interesting. As someone who does not use Forced diplomacy I always offer money along with a settlement as a gift. No chance of the AI accepting without the money it appears. But I had not considered that the garrison would also have an effect. Thanks.

[Brennus]

the AI only accepts this if the garrison is in place and not roaming around the province. If Baktria accepts, your garrisons will pull out automatically.

Ahhhh. Learn something new every day.

[Nightmare]

Are jew spearmen any good? Are they similar to those spearmen that can throw javelins that the hellenic powers can recruit, or are they something different? Since they have around the same cost as a levy pike, I just jeep recruiting levy pikes, but I'd like to know.

[Lysimachos]

Are jew spearmen any good? Are they similar to those spearmen that can throw javelins that the hellenic powers can recruit, or are they something different? Since they have around the same cost as a levy pike, I just jeep recruiting levy pikes, but I'd like to know.

They are a decent unit. They are indeed spearmen who also have javelins and being cheaper and more numerous (I'm not sure about this; I'm answering from memory) they can be a budget alternative to Thureophoroi or Thorakitai. Compared to levy pikes they are less suited for the centre of the line, but more versatile and still able to hold their ground well.

[seleucid empire]

more vulnerable to missiles but better morale than thureos

[Blxz]

Definitely one of my favourite units in the area.

[Sapper]

Are jew spearmen any good? Are they similar to those spearmen that can throw javelins that the hellenic powers can recruit, or are they something different? Since they have around the same cost as a levy pike, I just jeep recruiting levy pikes, but I'd like to know.

Ioudaioi Taxeis, aka Jewish Spearmen, are an excellent unit to recruit in the Levant. They are indeed similar to Thureophoroi and Thorakitai (those spearmen that can throw javelins that the hellenic powers can recruit) having javelins and a spear but they also have a few differences. Their cost lies between the two Hellenic troop types, as does their morale. They have the same number of javelins, 3, but they are slightly weaker, 5 as against 6 attack, but longer range, 45 as against 35. They have the same melee attack and charge bonus as Thureophoroi and are therefore a bit weaker than Thorakitai. Their defence is weaker than Thureophoroi, but is the same as Peltastai, who of course have swords and not spears as their secondary weapon. But there are two areas where they really score: they only require a level 2 Native MIC to recruit, as opposed to level 3 or 4 for T & T, plus you get more men, 200 on huge as opposed to 160 for T & T, or P! You can recruit them in Sidon, Heirosolyma, Antiocheia, Damaskos and Petra and in my view, you should! The AI tends to like them too.