SAB'YN CAMPAIGN [Archive]

PelicanMan

01-13-2012, 17:41

Hey everybody,

After much deliberation, I decided to not finish my Casse campaign because I felt about 90% sure that I would have breezed through the rest of it. I didn't want to get bored.

So, I played Saka for a bit, decided that I will go all out on that campaign on a later date. That leads me to this campaign.

I have selected Saba, M/M and have played 5 years so far.
Below you will see my current status and a legend in the bottom right hand corner of what is going on.

https://i44.tinypic.com/2ag90g8.jpg

I have a Diplomat in the AS & HAYA border establishing trade rights, alliances, and so on.
I have another diplomat on his way to AXUM to bribe the town and build an allied state. What I really want to do there is setup a small faction and basically with the remaining funds for my Faction will be used on that smaller faction. I need a name for that mini Faction, so if anybody has any ideas, post them.

I have two small armies, the First army which contains my Faction Heir, is taking over all of the cities around the desert. small force, but very stingy and he is currently a 2 star with 6 influence and a few cool traits (pic to be uploaded on a later date).

My second general has been brought up through the ranks, and he is basically cleaning up any rebel forces on my lands. I plan on using him in future campaigns, but first I want to establish a good economy.

I have only 1 spy, and a few in Queue for training so my security isn't the greatest at the moment (being upgraded of coarse)

I do have a few issues though. I cannot build fleets. I have 5 ports, but I cannot upgrade them to build fleets. Could I get some advice here please?

Also, take a look at the map and let me know what you guys think I should do. I currently know my first goal, which is to secure the coastal regions and setup my mini faction; but I cannot decide on where to go after.

Thanks!

THE P-MAN

Arjos

01-13-2012, 17:57

Saba are pretty tough, later on when the Ptolemaioi and the Seleukoi expand in Sinai, Nabataia, Tadmor or Gerrhaia, locals will most likely rebel in your favour, but making you declare war on the two super-powers...
That happens everytime in VH for me, maybe with M less often; anyway be prepared for such a situation...

As for goals you'll need one hellenic province at least in order to build Pantodapoi Phalangitai, their pikes are going to be very useful, since except for your bodyguards, your infantry is pretty weak in melee...
Best solution once you have secured the coast is to build an army with lots of archers and skirmishers: throwing all you've got at the enemy, isolating some units and routing them or retreat and use the refilled ammo...
Dorkei HaYam Ha'Adom together with Hoplitai Troglodutikes are going to be your best units in Arabia, but iirc you won't be able to afford too many of them at the beginning...

I'd say go for the Red Sea and Nubia, avoid building roads in Gerrha and hope that no enemy gets there or at least gets delayed...

Brave Brave Sir Robin

01-13-2012, 18:27

I played a Saba campaign on Hard difficulty and somehow managed to avoid war with either Ptolemies or Arche Seleukia. Bostra rebelled to me but I offered it back to the AS in return for peace and they accepted. I played until 230, took all the provinces you currently own plus Meroe and Axum and had lasting peace which made for an interesting campaign.

Also you can build a port in the city directly south of your starting town. Two levels of ports are available. Perhaps the lvl 3 government is preventing you from building it or you havn't built the mercentile port yet.

Titus Marcellus Scato

01-13-2012, 18:49

If you can arrange matters so that you are only fighting one superpower at a time and are allied to the other one, that might help. Preferably fighting the Ptolemies and allied to the Seleucids. Perhaps it might be worth allowing the Seleucids to take Gerrha without retaliation for a while, just to keep them happy while you're fighting the Ptolemies.

Maybe you could help defeat both the Ptolemies and Seleucids by using numerous spies and assassins to help forment rebellion in their towns, rather than relying on sheer brute force to fight them off? Keep them busy fighting rebels, as far as possible.

For strategic objectives, how about liberating the native Egyptians from their Macedonian overlords as the first priority, and only going after the Seleucids later? Let the Ptolemies attack the rebel towns, and then take them from the Ptolemies.

Blxz

01-13-2012, 19:25

Brave Brave Sir Robin is right, I think the town is called Tamane or something. It should be able to build ships. Maybe you need to upgrade the town level first though? I've done a good many saba campaigns and it can be worthwhile to expand into nubia. Since that region is actually your homeland region maybe in the future you can turn that 'mini faction' into an incorporated part of your tribe.

From there, once you have power either northwards into egypt is easy enough of you can fortify and the go eastwards to India. Can be very fun to set up a nice coastal Indian ocean empire.

You will notice that winning battles is very easy once you get the right mindset. Avoid melee in most cases until you can get your red sea axemen involved. Get them on the flank to attack and their AP weapons can chop through phalanx easily. Also I HIGHLY recommend as many archer spearmen as you can get. They are a phenomenal unit. Mildly capable in melee and decent at range but so cheap and with great retraining radius (anything that borders arabia, even babylon and seleukia). Very handy to soak damage while your better units flank. Plus your units are so fast, even when on foot. Get local battle superiority and use your advantages.

athanaric

01-13-2012, 20:30

You should build the highest available government type in all Arabic regions. Also, you should level up your regional MIC in your starting province up to tier 3 (yes that works with Type I govt., but only with Semitic factions and Pahlava). This will cost a little bit but will provide you with levy phalanxes, an excellent addition to your army. Also they have a pretty skin for Saba. Don't do this in Ma'in or the more eastern Arabic provinces though, those particular provinces don't have any foreign troops for you.
Archer-Spearmen, Red Sea Axemen+Hoplites, and Arabian Skirmishers have IIRC all be mentioned, but don't forget Sabaean Nobles. They are a good unit regardless of what some people say.

PelicanMan

01-13-2012, 20:31

Saba are pretty tough, later on when the Ptolemaioi and the Seleukoi expand in Sinai, Nabataia, Tadmor or Gerrhaia, locals will most likely rebel in your favour, but making you declare war on the two super-powers...

I plan on taking Gerrhaia and Charax and setting up shop @ Charax. There seems to be great defensible terrain there.
As for Petra, I will let the Phtoemaioi keep it until I can make it rebel; then I think I will concentrate on Ptolemaioi. Yeah. I think that is the direction I should go.

As for goals you'll need one hellenic province at least in order to build Pantodapoi Phalangitai

Do you happen to know which one that could be? I went through the EB Recruitment program for Regional & Native and the only unit I could find is the Red Sea Hoplites. Maybe that program is a bit old... I am not to sure.

If you can arrange matters so that you are only fighting one superpower at a time and are allied to the other one, that might help. Preferably fighting the Ptolemies and allied to the Seleucids. Perhaps it might be worth allowing the Seleucids to take Gerrha without retaliation for a while, just to keep them happy while you're fighting the Ptolemies.

I will definitely try attacking one and staying allied to another. I will though have to fork out a tribute to AS so that they do not attack Gerrha and Charax. I want those towns whether they like it or not. Will see if that works out.

Maybe you could help defeat both the Ptolemies and Seleucids by using numerous spies and assassins to help forment rebellion in their towns, rather than relying on sheer brute force to fight them off? Keep them busy fighting rebels, as far as possible.

I will definitely use that strategy to some extent; I wont go all out with spies and assassins, but I will have a small group known throughout the Saba community :2thumbsup:

Also you can build a port in the city directly south of your starting town. Two levels of ports are available. Perhaps the lvl 3 government is preventing you from building it or you havn't built the mercentile port yet.

Brave Brave Sir Robin is right, I think the town is called Tamane or something. It should be able to build ships. Maybe you need to upgrade the town level first though? I've done a good many saba campaigns and it can be worthwhile to expand into nubia. Since that region is actually your homeland region maybe in the future you can turn that 'mini faction' into an incorporated part of your tribe.

From there, once you have power either northwards into egypt is easy enough of you can fortify and the go eastwards to India. Can be very fun to set up a nice coastal Indian ocean empire.

Well then, I wish I knew that!!! But I think I will continue with my plan of bribing Axum; Kinda want to role play it. Also, I think I do have to build the town upgrade for the port.
But first, I want to invest on building those mines first; yes, they are ridiculously expensive, but it definitely will fuel the machine for establishing Charax as a start point for invasion (after I turtle there for a while) of AS and also setting up my Mini Faction across the Red Sea.
Also I wanted to point out, when looking at the EB Recruitment and Charax has a few good choices for Regional Units. That could get interesting.

You will notice that winning battles is very easy once you get the right mindset. Avoid melee in most cases until you can get your red sea axemen involved. Get them on the flank to attack and their AP weapons can chop through phalanx easily. Also I HIGHLY recommend as many archer spearmen as you can get. They are a phenomenal unit. Mildly capable in melee and decent at range but so cheap and with great retraining radius (anything that borders arabia, even babylon and seleukia). Very handy to soak damage while your better units flank. Plus your units are so fast, even when on foot. Get local battle superiority and use your advantages.

So as soon as I found out which region contains the phalanxes, I will create an army something along these lines:

2-3 Red Sea Axemen
2-3 Archer Spearmen
3-5 Light Spearmen
3-4 Pantodapoi Phalangitai (as soon as I could find them)
1 General
1 Noble Infantry
1-2 Skirmisher Cavalry

That will most likely make up my Main Army.

I do not want to go too unrealistic, so I definitely will only allow my next army to be no more then 1/2 that size; same goes with the Third army.

Let me know what you guys think of all that.

= )

THE P-MAN

Arjos

01-13-2012, 20:40

Do you happen to know which one that could be?

Checked and you can actually recruit them even in Saba, Qataban and Hadramaut, will need the lvl 3 local barrack (7500 mnai one I think)...

PelicanMan

01-13-2012, 21:03

You should build the highest available government type in all Arabic regions. Also, you should level up your regional MIC in your starting province up to tier 3 (yes that works with Type I govt., but only with Semitic factions). This will cost a little bit but will provide you with levy phalanxes, an excellent addition to your army. Also they have a pretty skin for Saba.

Checked and you can actually recruit them even in Saba, Qataban and Hadramaut, will need the lvl 3 local barrack (7500 mnai one I think)...

Do you happen to know the name of the unit? Also, I recall there being a program in which you can check out all the info on each unit. Does anybody have a link to that?

Thanks!
THE P-MAN

athanaric

01-13-2012, 21:06

Pantodapoi Phalangitai.
https://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6329/sabapikeman.jpg (https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/156/sabapikeman.jpg/)

And this:

http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/

Arjos

01-13-2012, 21:07

There's the Recruitment Viewer installed with EB...
Unit is Pantodapoi Phalangitai (Hellenic Native Phalanx)...

PelicanMan

01-13-2012, 21:45

Pantodapoi Phalangitai.
https://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6329/sabapikeman.jpg (https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/156/sabapikeman.jpg/)

And this:

http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/

There's the Recruitment Viewer installed with EB...
Unit is Pantodapoi Phalangitai (Hellenic Native Phalanx)...
Sweet...
Thanks guys. I guess my wife will have a frown tonight. Ah well. Can't wait to continue the campaign!!!
Hopefully I should have an update Monday

Let me know what else you guys think I should do... feedback is always appreciated!!
THE P-MAN

Kull

01-14-2012, 00:05

Yep, Saba campaign was one of my all-time favorites:

1) Could never maintain peace with the Seleukids, so the strategy was to keep fighting defensive battles in the Persian Gulf provinces of North Arabia. Destroy incoming stacks, rinse/repeat. That's because the real goal was...

2) Destroy the Ptolemaics. Come up and around the Red Sea coast and ALSO launch an invasion up through Nubia. The only rule here was to make sure I never had a border with The Carthies or Seleukids (i.e. a second border in Syria).

3) Some serious, cataclysmic battles are de-rigeur, and you are facing best-in-game-class elites. Lots of fun, and once you have cut the heart out of the Ptolies you can then focus all your efforts on the Seleukids (it's even worth it to leave the Ptolies alive in the poor western provinces as the border block to the Carthies).

4) Battles are crazy fun when your army is basically all skirmishers - this will test your EB skils to the max. It gets easier once you have the Pantodapoi Phalangitai, as then you can use the standard "hold em from the front and hammer the flanks and rear". It's almost too easy, once you've got the tactics down. By contrast, the almost-all-skirmishers vs. Ptolemaic elites battles are never-to-be forgotten and require a different approach almost every time. Terrain differences and enemy force composition really matter, and they force you to alter your tactics from battle to battle - even more than normal.

You'll have fun with this one.

Shadowwalker

01-14-2012, 02:20

Finished a Sab'Yn campaign about 1 month ago and while there was a lot of luck involved (like ptolemaic halfstacks with elite units sitting right next to a town I besiege but then wander away instead of joining the sally the same turn) I found out a few more or less useful things.

(1) Ethiopian heavy cavalry is surprisingly useful. Looking at the stats I didn't expect much from them, but having two of them in my king's army saved his ass more than once, even the elite phalanxes can be broken with a rear charge. :shocked2:

(2) Taking Gerrha and trying to defend it can sometimes lead to very frustrating moments. Two reasons for that. First - you can't own Gerrha and have peace with the Arche Seleukeia. Even without building a road they attack within the blink of an eye. Second - The Seleucids attack (of course) from the north, which leads to a sally battleground that heavily favours them. After losing the town three times I gave up and defended the next province to the south by field battles (using hit-and-run-armies, later in the campaign I hired some scythian riders .... yes, I sailed all the way up to Kallatis for them and made it back safely. Did I mention that I had a lot of luck in this campaign? :laugh4: )

(3) It proved very smart to build up Maryab, Tamane, Sabata and Carna as far as possible before doing anything else. For the first about 40-50 years I did absolutely nothing (except building some watchtowers north of Carna and occasionally fighting back rebels of course) but to have minimized garrisons and to focus on population growth and income. I only started to expand further after having build all possible mines, ports, markets, farms etc there. And of course the MIC's....

(4) Starting the invasion of Egypt from Nubia was not that bad a decision, a combined attack on the Nile delta and Nubia probably would have been even better though.

(5) Don't extinct the Ptolemaic Empire, leave them with Kyrene (unless you feel like fighting a grey and a white death at the same time ...). But make sure to raid and burn it beforehand. Kyrene is one of the very few places where they can recruit elite phalanxes....

(6) Sab'Yn bodyguard infantry is - especially in the early game, but also when facing Thureophoroi for example - pretty good. Makes for very fearsome flankers too...

My king's army for the invasion in Nubia (and on until I reached Alexandreia/Memphis) consisted of:

2 generals (one of them the FL)
4 levy phalanxes
2 arabian slingers
2 archer-spearmen
2 ethiopian archers
2 sabaean archers
2 sabaean spearmen
2 red sea light infantry
2 ethiopian cavalry

Later on I heavily used mercenaries and of course the Kretan archers...

Was a very fun campaign but much, much harder than Hayasdan for example. :yes:

Brave Brave Sir Robin

01-14-2012, 07:13

I don't know how I managed to maintain peace with both superpowers in my game. One of the great mysteries of life I suppose. Shared a border with both for over 30 years and no attack. I did enjoy just roleplaying my regional empire though.

PelicanMan

01-16-2012, 15:30

Hey Guys,

Well, I plated about 14 turns since the last update and I have managed to come up with this update:

https://i44.tinypic.com/2551k42.jpg

My 2nd general army won a battle in Ma'in against a force about 900 men strong, and I had very little casualties. I decided to disband the army at my capitol and bam, a second rebel army popped up in the province of Hadramaut. So right now I built a small force to deal with that rebel army (400 men should be enough to beat 800 men)

I took the advice of building archer-spearmen and wow, they are pretty sweet for such a cheap unit. Should have thought of that at the beginning of the campaign. You live and you learn.

Anyways, I took the city of Homna and I am making my way to Gerrhau at the moment. But I first will have to deal with the Rebel General in that province before I take the city.

I have lost Bostra twice; once to the AS which I destroyed every building I could and gave it back to them for peace and trade rights; they did not want to fork up any money, but instead asked for tribute (2400 mnai for three turns!!!!) I settled with a cease fire and trade rights. Then Ptolemaoioi lost the city to me through rebellions and they wouldn't take it back through negotiations so I had to attack their army and deplete it as much as I could before they took over it. So now, I have peace with the AS and I am at war with the Pyramid worshipers.

I have build the first mine in Tamane, started building the second level mine in Maryab (20 turns!!! wow.) and I have build the naval port in Sabata. The extra cash from the mine in Tamane has definitely helped out.

As for the bribing mission, well, it failed. I offered 10,000 mnai and it wasn't enough. I did look up what type of troops I could recruit there, but I didn't have much interest in what they had t offer, so now I have decided to build up a force and land an army to take Erythraia (which currently has about 1700 Ptoleis) so that will be an exciting battle. They also have their faction leader there so I cannot wait to fight him.

In conclusion, not everything has went the way I wanted it, but there is progress and I feel that I have met the goals that I thought I could meet. Too bad I could not bribe Axum, would have made for an exciting mini faction. I think though once I take Erythraia, I will still try to setup the mini faction in Axum after I take it and let it build up to take the western towns (Meroe, Pselkis).

BTW, my faction heir got the trait Dessert Warrior, and wow has his movement increased!!! it may be only 15%, but that does a lot in the desert regions.

He also has one unit of light horsemen that I have now up to 8 exp and they definitely help turn the tide in a lot of battles.

The one thing that I do not like is the fact that Watch towers are extremely expensive compared to other factions; 1500 Mnai!!!!! damn. I think that I should build them only by the roads since the span is sooo far between cities I do not want to invest in seeing every spot on the map.

Sorry for the long post; wanted to give all the details.

Also, I will post the army compositions for the next update. Maybe Wednesday or Thursday (have personal stuff to take care of)

Feedback is appreciated and if you have any tips, let me know.

Thanks!!!

Sylon

01-16-2012, 16:59

Watch towers seem to be 1500 mnai for most factions; certainly, it costs as much in my current Epeiros campaign. I believe steppe factions get them cheaper, however.

Don't bother attempting to bribe settlements. Most Eleutheroi settlements are garrisoned with FMs with ridiculously high stats, making them extremely expensive to bribe.

Build up your settlements on the Red Sea coast; you want those axemen as soon as possible now that you're facing the Ptolemaioi. They're one of the few troops you get that can actually put a dent in their heavy forces; especially once they start spamming Klerouchoi Phalangitai and those dreaded Klerouchon Agema. If you build up further, you can get access to Red Sea Hoplites, which are one of the heaviest units you'll be getting in this campaign. Also, in Egyptian regions, you can recruit Machimoi with a level 2 or 3 regional MIC; these have AP weapons, making them a good replacement for axemen.

Also, Arabian light cavalry have AP lances, so feel free to use them against phalangitai.

Brave Brave Sir Robin

01-16-2012, 19:17

In Egyptian regions you can recruit Galatians. If you can get to this point, feel free to dominate the entire Mediterranean.

PelicanMan

01-16-2012, 22:36

Watch towers seem to be 1500 mnai for most factions; certainly, it costs as much in my current Epeiros campaign. I believe steppe factions get them cheaper, however.

I guess I should not have used Casse as my only example. I think Saka also has them @ 1000. Anyways, so if most of them do have that, then I won't complain about that again.

Don't bother attempting to bribe settlements. Most Eleutheroi settlements are garrisoned with FMs with ridiculously high stats, making them extremely expensive to bribe.

Build up your settlements on the Red Sea coast; you want those axemen as soon as possible now that you're facing the Ptolemaioi. They're one of the few troops you get that can actually put a dent in their heavy forces; especially once they start spamming Klerouchoi Phalangitai and those dreaded Klerouchon Agema. If you build up further, you can get access to Red Sea Hoplites, which are one of the heaviest units you'll be getting in this campaign. Also, in Egyptian regions, you can recruit Machimoi with a level 2 or 3 regional MIC; these have AP weapons, making them a good replacement for axemen.

Also, Arabian light cavalry have AP lances, so feel free to use them against phalangitai.

Well, I think the best way to penetrate Ptolemaioi is to have a decent bankroll behind it; so in saying that, I will wait for the 20 turns of my big mine to be completed and then I will go for an all out war with the Ptoleis. Right now, I think I should continue investing in infrastructure and economy instead of war mongering. = )

In Egyptian regions you can recruit Galatians. If you can get to this point, feel free to dominate the entire Mediterranean.

Sweet... tanks with swords. I need those and Red Sea Infantry to take on those pesky phalanxes. Will definitely get interesting as I make my way up there. I guess in 25 years I will have access to those units.

Feedback is appreciated.

Thanks!
THE P-MAN

Sylon

01-17-2012, 01:55

Brave Brave Sir Robin

01-17-2012, 03:57

Teching up to elephants in Axum is another good idea. The weaker Forest ones take a lvl 3 local MIC I believe. A line of Sabaen levy infantry with Red Sea Axes and Arabian Infantry in reserve and a unit of elephants to run down the oppositions line is effective.

Jive

01-17-2012, 07:24

You will notice that winning battles is very easy once you get the right mindset. Avoid melee in most cases until you can get your red sea axemen involved. Get them on the flank to attack and their AP weapons can chop through phalanx easily. Also I HIGHLY recommend as many archer spearmen as you can get. They are a phenomenal unit. Mildly capable in melee and decent at range but so cheap and with great retraining radius (anything that borders arabia, even babylon and seleukia). Very handy to soak damage while your better units flank. Plus your units are so fast, even when on foot. Get local battle superiority and use your advantages.[/QUOTE]

Interesting comment Blxz. What difficulty level do you fight your battles on? Seems to me that playing most any campaign on VH/H would be quite challenging. Or no?

Blxz

01-17-2012, 08:12

Interesting comment Blxz. What difficulty level do you fight your battles on? Seems to me that playing most any campaign on VH/H would be quite challenging. Or no?

Indeed. Thats why I don't play on VH/H. I play M battles and H campaign with the saba.
The thing is that forming a line and trying to hold while you rush around the back and pepper them is using the Sabyn in their weakest possible role. Even the steppe factions are better at this because they can have large numbers of swift cavalry to run behind quickly. The saba are possibly the worst line holders in the game.

Their strength is generally good stamina, especially in deserts; speed of their infantry units, even when exhausted they can outrun other exhausted troops; and the fact that a majority of their units have a ranged attack of some sort.

By avoiding melee as much as possible and using your speed to your advantage you can pull big ai army lines apart and surround them with superior numbers. By using your missiles into their backs as a single unit runs and the rest fire. Once it is depleted enough any melee unit (I recommended archer spearmen in my first post but anything heavier works wonders too) can engage them to draw their focus while you send a red-sea axemen unit into their back. This should hopefully crush them.
If you can do this simultaneously at about 3 sites across the battlefield then you can rip apart most armies. May not work against a human player with sufficient ranged units.

Also, the main reason I recommend the arabian archer spearmen is their massive retraining zone. This allows them to be used for the fodder they are but to be ready for the next battle. Also note that many of the towns already have a Saba barracks built so you can even attack and then retrain upon conquest. Convenient.

If you want me to go into MORE depth I will, but this should suffice to explain some of my tactics and the different mind-set required to use the saba effectively.

PelicanMan

01-17-2012, 15:37

Well, it's up to you how you wish to conduct the campaign, but I will give a word of caution here: During those 5 years while you wait for that mine to finish, the Ptolemaioi will be spamming troops from several of their cities with their infinite bankroll. I made the mistake of over-roleplaying a Saby'n campaign once, only expanding outward in the 250's and 240's. I had to face an endless torrent of stacks, containing the aforementioned Kelrouchoi units, Galatian Heavy Infantry, Thorakitai, and eventually even stacks containing hetairoi. Having to grind down every single one of those stacks with nothing but skirmishers and the occasional axeman is still a source of trauma for me today.

Alright, so I guess your advice would be to hit them hard and sooner the better. Ok, I think I know what I plan to do. I'll create on stack and basically roam it around and destroy their stacks as much as possible. Every so often pick up a City. You know what, I guess I can do something while I am waiting for the Mine to build. By then I should have conquered most of the cities by the Red Sea, and hopefully I can begin my conquest. I just do not want to run into the damn Stack after Stack. That to me starts to get a bit annoying.

Teching up to elephants in Axum is another good idea. The weaker Forest ones take a lvl 3 local MIC I believe. A line of Sabaen levy infantry with Red Sea Axes and Arabian Infantry in reserve and a unit of elephants to run down the oppositions line is effective.

Elephants in Axum??? Hmmm..... Maybe I should get that first and invest in Local MIC's. I'll have to definitely think on that. If I need an advantage, Elephants definitely help.

Indeed. Thats why I don't play on VH/H. I play M battles and H campaign with the saba.
The thing is that forming a line and trying to hold while you rush around the back and pepper them is using the Sabyn in their weakest possible role. Even the steppe factions are better at this because they can have large numbers of swift cavalry to run behind quickly. The saba are possibly the worst line holders in the game.
Well, maybe I should have started the game as M battles and H campaign. I will definitely consider that when I startup another campaign after this adventure.

Their strength is generally good stamina, especially in deserts; speed of their infantry units, even when exhausted they can outrun other exhausted troops; and the fact that a majority of their units have a ranged attack of some sort.

By avoiding melee as much as possible and using your speed to your advantage you can pull big ai army lines apart and surround them with superior numbers. By using your missiles into their backs as a single unit runs and the rest fire. Once it is depleted enough any melee unit (I recommended archer spearmen in my first post but anything heavier works wonders too) can engage them to draw their focus while you send a red-sea axemen unit into their back. This should hopefully crush them.
If you can do this simultaneously at about 3 sites across the battlefield then you can rip apart most armies. May not work against a human player with sufficient ranged units.

Also, the main reason I recommend the arabian archer spearmen is their massive retraining zone. This allows them to be used for the fodder they are but to be ready for the next battle. Also note that many of the towns already have a Saba barracks built so you can even attack and then retrain upon conquest. Convenient.

Well I kinda expected that with the Saba. They kinda remind me of the Numidian Style game play whenever I played them in Darthmod. Hit and run tactics.

Another way of a battle I could do is setup in a Hammer and anvil tactic. Put my most experienced spearmen/phalanx on my left flank so that they hold up long enough until the Elephants arrive. Use my archers as much as possible and then use them as support. Hopefully the Elephants will help break up their formations so that my red sea infantry can wrap around and flank them. As soon as they pin them up from both sides, and I can return my elephants on their return trip home and hopefully break them.

This is what I am thinking:

https://i40.tinypic.com/2qs3r41.jpg

something along those lines... let me know what you guys think.

Brennus

01-18-2012, 02:07

PelicanMan

01-18-2012, 12:37

This is a really well documented campaign PelicanMan, really enjoying it (alas I can offer no advice on how best to use the Sabeans).

I wanted to ask what difficultly your Casse campaign was played on?

Also, I do like your battle plan. My only worry is that it could prove a bit too ambitious although if you have no objection to using the pause button you could manage it. Just pay attention to your pachyderms, Diadochi do like their peltasts.

Thanks for the positive feedback!! = )

The Casse campaign was Medium Battles and Hard campaign. It is definitely one that I am going to do again but next time I will start writing Guides because I get to write about it more in depth. I really like explaining what is going on and like hearing advice because it helps me develop as a player. I try to stay away from the pause button because it kinda shows the craziness that could happen as if in real life. If I used the pause button, battles would get pretty boring and repetitive.

As for that formation, my backup plan was that if they have a lot of skirmishers, then my archers will take them out first; those units are dangerous when used correctly and definitely dangerous to my formation. I don't mind the fighting units because I know I can rout them if I run it properly. As you know, if I can get the elephant unit to do is due diligence, I will definitely disrupt their formations to the point where they will have no cohesion and my red sea infantry can come in and clean up. I would put my most battle hardened spearmen/phalanx on the right flank just so they could hold out the longest and the Elephants can make their way there. My Right cavalry unit is basically to take care of the General and lead him off coarse (if he bites of coarse) that way all bonuses from him can be thrown out the window.

BTW, the General unit for Saba is pretty awesome; I know they do not have much in units, but man, I use him all the time. I know it takes a chance on losing him, but those bodyguards look like they want to cut somebody up.

Funny thing is, and my wife thinks I'm crazy for it, I printed the detailed map (with all the trees and mountain ranges) on a Sheet that is 24" Wide by 34" wide (Since I do Process Engineering I have access to a plotter that has color) I actually have taken the units from the board game "Risk" and used it to deploy my army turn by turn. She thinks I am crazy but I only play this game maybe 2 times a week (family life and all). Its pretty neat actually; Instead of moving the arrow around the screen to view the current campaign situation, I can get a better overview on the printed out map. Man, if she read this she would just laugh and call me a loser. :laugh4: ah well.

Anyways, blabbered a bit long there.

Feedback is always appreciated!!!

Thanks,

THE P-MAN

Brennus

01-19-2012, 01:23

PelicanMan

01-19-2012, 02:31

Fantastic! I think the only other thing you could do to immerse yourself any more would be to play in costume (which I have considered myself). I can't help but feel humbled by your success with the Casse, so many times I have tried and given up.

If your wife is worried about you now, just wait for EB II.

lol
I definitely won't wear a costume. But I definitely cannot wait for EB II. That is going to be something else. Numidians will be the first faction I play without a doubt.

THE P-MAN

Moros

01-19-2012, 02:54

Just wait till I finally get round finishing the Arabian preview.

Blxz

01-19-2012, 05:58

Just wait till I finally get round finishing the Arabian preview.

Ahh, 楽しみ。
I wonder if it is a new faction? Since you said arabian and not saba I am inclined to think that, yes, yes it is!

Brave Brave Sir Robin

01-19-2012, 06:19

Or it could just be similar to the peoples of North Africa preview. But whatever, I've given up on trying to figure anything out regarding EBII, it just leads to brain hemorrhaging.

PelicanMan

01-25-2012, 14:29

Hey Guys,

Haven't been able to play much, a lot going on in the real life. I was able to sit down and play about 12 turns last night and made a bit of progress.

Here is what I have accomplished so far:

https://img823.imageshack.us/img823/5968/saba261bc.jpg (https://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/saba261bc.jpg/)

As you can see, I have been starting to recruit spies and have been sending them out to Petra and Charax. a few have died already but I now have one in Petra, and I have 4 making their way to Charax.

The Seleucids were besieging the town of Gerrha with a full stack but no general, and they were defeated by a half stack and a rebel general. So they were sent back to their borders in Charax. I besieged the town and took it over with about 1100 men (half Stack) and right after that, AS besieged my port. So now I am at war with AS and Ptole. This sucks. lol It definitely will make for an interesting campaign.

I have the smaller mine @ Tamane, Maryab is still building the 20 turn mine,and I just put on build a mine in Carna. Once those are finished building, I should be able to field 2 nice size armies. I have started to build the first army in the capitol so once that is finished (10 turns or so) both mines will be ready to go. I plan to attack Theron with that army and my second army which is already half built will be attacking Charax. All diplomacy is lost when it comes to those two factions because they do hate me quite a bit now. They won't accept any deal for a ceasefire. So its either I turtle and deal with a crap load of stacks later, or slap those **tches and tell them who their daddy is. Yeah, that's right, Daddy is bringing home the bacon; and nobody is going to stop me.

After invading Theron I will setup shop @ Axum and continue with the plan of a sub faction that will ease its way into the southern regions of Africa. The main army will leave them at peace and I will give them Theron (of coarse role playing) and go for Diospolis-Megale. That will be part of the future Empire of Saba.

Now, I will have some issues along the way, but as of right now, I can only wait for the Mining Complex in Maryab to finish before I build the next military complex that will give me Phalanxes. That will eventually be my Faction Leader's army (Third Army). That should be enough to start doing some serious Damage.

SO, that is what is going on so far.

If you guys have any advice, let me know.

Thanks!!!
THE P-MAN

athanaric

01-25-2012, 15:03

PelicanMan

01-25-2012, 15:17

You shoulda built the mines in Carna first. They're twice as effective. Also, why Type III govts. in those Arabic cities? They make no sense tech wise (nor recruitment wise. You can get phalangites with a Type i government). Unless you're roleplaying, of course.

Bear in mind that one of Saba's chief weaknesses is law boni (in that they don't get any aside from garrisons and temples). This'll limit your effective income, especially as your empire grows larger. Distance to capital is a b****. Same for nomadic factions, of course. And Koinon Hellenon, astonishingly.

Why Carna? I really don't know why they would be twice as effective.

Well, the type three Governments are for role playing; after the buildings that are in queue are finished for the Type III governments are finished, I will be upgrading them to Type II.

In regards to law bonuses, what do you mean? Is it tied with the government levels? sorry, I wasn't sure if you were continuing on from your first point.

In the future, I plan to Make Either Petra or Charax my capitol. I would make Charax my future capitol for defensible purposes, but I think I will have it at Petra because of my future expansions into Egypt. That is a few years away though.

Regards,
THE P-MAN

athanaric

01-25-2012, 18:26

Why Carna? I really don't know why they would be twice as effective.Because Carna has two mining sites, meaning you get 1200 mnai/turn from a "simple mine" instead of 600 (like in Sabata or Maryab). And 3000 instead of 1500 from an upgraded mine.

In regards to law bonuses, what do you mean? Is it tied with the government levels?Tech tree. Sab'yn generally get few law boni, regardless of government type. I think the maximum is +25% or +30%, if you build tier 2 garrisons plus a maximum level tempel of Athtar, that is. By comparison, (even) the Swêboz get +30% for a much lower expense.

PelicanMan

01-25-2012, 19:27

Because Carna has two mining sites, meaning you get 1200 mnai/turn from a "simple mine" instead of 600 (like in Sabata or Maryab). And 3000 instead of 1500 from an upgraded mine.

Tech tree. Sab'yn generally get few law boni, regardless of government type. I think the maximum is +25% or +30%, if you build tier 2 garrisons plus a maximum level tempel of Athtar, that is. By comparison, (even) the Swêboz get +30% for a much lower expense.

Ahhh.. I didn't know that they had two mining sites. Thanks for the tip! I will definitely keep that in mind when I do another campaign of theirs on my future new computer. YA!!!! can't wait.

As for the Tech Tree, what I understand from your statement is that if I build level 1 government for the cities around Maryab, I can build the highest level temple for the added law bonuses. Alright, I get it now.
I plan on doing that, but I want to role play otherwise things will just get boring. I do not want to make it difficult on myself, I just want to stay interested in the campaign.

I think My next update will most likely be on the weekend because I am partying tonight for my birthday (which is tomorrow) and also partying Friday cause my family will celebrate it then. After that, probably Sat or Sun I will play and provide an update. Hopefully I get a few good hours of playing.

Also, any other advice is appreciated.

Cheers!
THE P-MAN

athanaric

01-25-2012, 20:02

As for the Tech Tree, what I understand from your statement is that if I build level 1 government for the cities around Maryab, I can build the highest level temple for the added law bonuses. Alright, I get it now.
No no, I meant that Saba is generally lacking in buildings that provide law boni (they don't have paved roads, bath houses, or large stone walls). Also, the maximum temple level isn't affected by government type (one of the few buildings that isn't). Other happiness or law increasing buildings are, though.

PelicanMan

01-25-2012, 20:16

No no, I meant that Saba is generally lacking in buildings that provide law boni (they don't have paved roads, bath houses, or large stone walls). Also, the maximum temple level isn't affected by government type (one of the few buildings that isn't). Other happiness or law increasing buildings are, though.

Well, that certainly does change things; I guess I will have to make Petra my new capitol since I will be going after Egypt. Otherwise Distance to Capitol will be a killer in terms of unrest. I'll have to leave influential governors just to keep peace in Maryab, Carna, etc. when I do take over Egypt (hopefully. who knows, I still could loose this campaign.

Thanks for the tips!!!

Any more advice is greatly appreciated.

THE P-MAN

athanaric

01-25-2012, 21:06

PelicanMan

01-25-2012, 22:48

Tier 4 (IIRC) regional MIC in Alexandria will grant you access to Kretan Archers, Galatian Heavy Swordsmen (same dudes that the Ptolies get), and Panda Phalanx (with a nice factional Saba skin). Probably also Katapeltai. Definitely an incentive to capture that province.

Definitely. Especially splitting up the Ptole's land in two. That might cause some damage. I am definitely excited about the Galatian Heavy Swordsmen and Kretan Archers... those will be pretty sweet.
THE P-MAN

Blxz

01-26-2012, 04:19

Happy birthday for tomorrow. How old will you be?

PelicanMan

01-26-2012, 16:56

29
and wow is my head pounding right now at work. lol

PelicanMan

01-27-2012, 20:59

Hey Guys,

I want to show you guys what I meant with the map that I printed out on a plotter (24" x 36") so I am going to provide you with my immersion into the game. I have basically used Risk pieces for the markings, and I will better explain what each piece represents.

Here is the Map:

https://i44.tinypic.com/zjjjfm.jpg

https://i44.tinypic.com/iy0kuf.jpg

https://i44.tinypic.com/2cyl24j.jpg

As you can see in the first picture, I have also shown the building browser that I have printed out on 12" x 36". I have color coordinated faction and army location too.

GREEN - Saba
YELLOW - Ptolei
BLACK - AS
RED - Rebel
BLUE - Spies

The Three Star pieces represent cities, and the Five Star pieces represent armies that can only be seen at the current state.

I have also begun sending out spies everywhere. I still have not made a city rebel, but I am getting real close with Alexandrea. Also I am trying for Charax to rebel too... that one is a tough cookie.

Sometime this weekend I will provide another update; I have plated 10 turns since last update so a few more and I will provide a lengthy update next time.

Hope you all enjoyed this!

Any Feedback is more then welcome and advice is always considered and appreciated!!!

(of coarse, no costume wearing... lol Sorry Brennus :2thumbsup:.)

THE P-MAN

EDIT: - I JUST BOUGHT MY NEW COMPUTER!!!!! - YAY
Alienware X51
Intel® Core™ i5-2320 3.0GHz (6MB Cache) with Turbo Boost Technology 2.0
Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64Bit, English
8GB Dual Channel DDR3 SDRAM at 1333MHz
1000GB SATA 3 hard drive (7200RPM)
1GB GDDR5 NVIDIA® GeForce® GTX 555
Slot-Loading Dual Layer DVD Burner (DVD±RW, CD-RW)

Monitor - http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors_Flat_Panel_Widescreen/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=320-2807

3 weeks delivery = :sweatdrop:

Arjos

01-27-2012, 21:02

You are crazy!!!

In the most awesome way though :D

PelicanMan

01-27-2012, 21:18

Thanks Arjos...

I updated the post; I just bought a new computer!!!! finally I get to play on a decent rig with a decent monitor.
Can't wait!!!

THE P-MAN

Moros

01-27-2012, 22:58

This threads makes me smile. Great to see you having such a great time with the mod. :2thumbsup:

Titus Marcellus Scato

01-27-2012, 23:47

PelicanMan

01-28-2012, 04:46

Fantastic map printout! I wish I had one, I'd frame it and hang it on my wall!

The Risk pieces are a good idea too, bring the map to life. Although I'd put the three-star pieces the other way up, so they look like a house roof, that way they'd be easier to distinguish from the five-star armies.

Where's your goblet of wine and plate of dates and figs? Every general deserves refreshment ;)

I'm Polish... Tonight I proved it with Shots of vodka and home made kielbasa (me and my dad make it fresh)

Anyways, this is drunken jabber (family is over to celebrate my birthday) and my wife is making fun of me. lol
Ah well.

Hope you guys enjoyed the map!!! I will definitely consider the three star pointing up.... good point.
THE P-MAN

Blxz

01-28-2012, 04:50

Oh. My. God.

You are a dedicated fan alright and I am mightily impressed. Also the building tree down the bottom of the map. Cool reference.
And I can see why your wife is making fun of you :yes:

EDIT: Actually, you have given me the motivation to continue one of my EB games. Much appreciated. Keep these Saba updates coming!!

Brave Brave Sir Robin

01-28-2012, 16:24

:2thumbsup:
I whole heartedly agree with Moros. I'm smiling.

Btw, how was the homemade Kielbasa? Always wanted to make my own sausage.

PelicanMan

01-28-2012, 16:51

:2thumbsup:
I whole heartedly agree with Moros. I'm smiling.

Btw, how was the homemade Kielbasa? Always wanted to make my own sausage.

Thanks for the positive feedback Sir Robin

As for the Kielbasa, my dad has been making it for about 10 years now, and I just got involved about two years ago. It tastes great!!! I live in Windsor, Ontario and everytime we go to a Polish Wedding or an event, me and my dad make the deli meat portion of it (its called Kolacje - late night meal) and everybody is aware of the quality of the meats. Let's just say everybody that has tried it or heard about it gives absolutely great reviews or they can't wait to try it.

We also make smoked hams, turkey, Krakowska Kielbasa (its like 2" in diameter), double smoked bacon, all types of fish (in a separate smokehouse not to stink up the meats) including whitefish, trout, salmon, etc.

Its always a good time making it too... me and my dad also drink a little too while we make it (home made alcohol which is served at Christmas, Easter, birthdays, etc). We also try to make it on a day where there is Hockey throughout the day or a football (american) game. Summer months my family is with us and they go swimming while we are smoking the meats.

Anyways, I should have an update sometime Monday; I plan on playing tomorrow night or even tonight if I don't drink too much (My birthday this past Thursday, my father-in-law's birthday today, and my Brother-in-law's wife's birthday I think on Sunday... It'll take me a couple days to recover from all of this...) After this weekend, no drinking for like a month. lol

THE P-MAN

moonburn

01-28-2012, 18:38

considering the dates i think your family really really really really enjoys spring

Kull

01-28-2012, 19:41

Great thread! :2thumbsup: :pop2:

PelicanMan

02-01-2012, 05:53

I lost everything.... I hate computers.

Its a good thing my new one is coming in a couple weeks.
ah well. It was fun while it lasted. CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! POOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! %&$*%&%^$*%*&^%*&%$&*^&%*&!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry to disappoint.

THE P-MAN

Moros

02-01-2012, 08:38

Andres

02-01-2012, 13:56

Sorry to hear that, P-MAN ~:(

I can only echo Moros and hope to see you back here soon with pictures of maps. In the meanwhile, you now have more time to eat kielbasa, so not everything is bad ~:cheers:

PelicanMan

02-01-2012, 13:57

I will... Thanks.

What sucks is that I spent alot of time writing all this up and getting immersed into this campaign and for what!?!? Damn computer.

THE P-MAN

d'Arthez

02-01-2012, 14:46

Sorry to hear that. Just remind yourself that your new rig will be with you soon. Enjoy your next campaign.

XSamatan

02-01-2012, 21:37

Did your PC blow up or is it related to EB?

PelicanMan

02-01-2012, 21:55

well, it puffed the magic dragon. lol it did blow up. It was an OOOLLLLDDDD Rig... not even a gaming computer. So I definitely cannot wait for the Alienware X51 to come in.

Nachtmeister

02-02-2012, 01:02

XD You ordered yourself an Alienware computer. Wow. Um... remind me to congratulate you *after* it arrives, because doing so now would be inviting bad luck iirc. But big congratulations *will* be due when it does arrive.
Your campaign and the beautiful documentation made me start a Sab'Yn campaign of my own, on VH c, M battles, huge unit size. This is probably my tenth campaign with the Sab'Yn, but I never finished one before because they all got tedious at some point (AI stackspamming and uncontrollable huge foreign culture cities due to too much turtling in the first 30 years), bad strategic decisions, or over-rushing the AI (moving faction leader around the east of arabia up to the gulf, conquering everything, then gutting the AS, razing Seleukeia, Persepolis, Susa, then slaughtering the hordes of levies...)
In case the HDD with your campaign is still intact, I am putting forth my experience so far, hopefully some of it might be useful for your campaign - or otherwise, the next one you start =)

1) I took Qataban on the first round using the spy and the faction heir with a severely outnumbered force of 2 units of arabian infantry and 1 unit of slingers, recruited a unit of slingers in Mariab, sieged Carna with the rest of the starting army and the faction leader, built roads in Maryab.
During the AI turn, the garrison of Carna sallied and I slaughtered them, taking that settlement also.

*EDIT* - they each gained a "decorated hero" ancillary for this, which at this point had a serious impact on my campaign because it lowered the cost for recruiting units to 80% */EDIT*

2) On turn 2, I disbanded all the survivors of the battle for Tamane, making it grow to a large town and started expanding the governor's palace there, moved the survivors from the battle for Carna to Maryab and disbanded them there, started recruiting arabian archer-spearmen (and retrained those from the starting army plus the arabian infantry and the cavalry) and gained a new general by marriage. Gave him the drillmaster ancillary of the faction leader.

3) Moved new general with 2 archer spearmen, 1 arabian infantry and the cavalry on his way to Sabata.

4) Took Sabata, moving fresh archer spearmen from Maryab to join forces.

5) Moved on towards Ubar... Since the new general had the "selfish" trait and was of that tribe that is best used for commanding armies (no farming, trading, engineering skills...), I decided to use him for the conquest of the rest of Arabia since it would probably make a warmonger of him and thus put his ethnic traits to the best use.

...

I started building a naval port as soon as Tamane was finished upgrading to a large town, kept moving the new general on towards Homna except for 1 turn of resting in Ubar because he got exhausted from the forced marching back at Sabata, fought the Maketan army in defense from higher ground and with a unit of mercenary slingers to support them, neglected all but the most basic buildings (military occupation and a healer's house in Maryab) to save for mines in Carna.

And the second army, which I started training on turn 11: 2 units of archer spearmen, 1 arabian infantry, 1 cavalry. Plus the unit of archer spearmen that didn't make it to the movementpoint-boosted unification army on the way north-east which was now instead boosting the garrison at Sabata for highest tax rates.

On turn 13, the port was finished and I started building a bireme fleet.

On turn 14, Petra rebelled to me from the Ptolemies; I disbanded all but 2 units of spearmen and alternated taxes between stable and red-high, managed to build a basic factional MIC before a yellow army arrived and took it back. I made a very fragile peace with them a turn after.

On turn 16, I took Homna.
On the way there, I kept moving my spy in and out of eleutheroi settlements to skill him up, so I had a 60% probability for opening gates at Homna.

Got a couple of additional generals back in my home territory in the mean time, kept everyone around Carna, Maryab and Tamane, formed the new army up around one of them with some influence who had become the suspect of rumours about his wife's "availability", set out for Axum with them to compensate for his wife-related personal problems with some conquest to take out his anger on the unfaithful people of D'mt who had not paid their taxes for a long time. Decommissioned the fleet as soon as it had transferred them at the nearest port.

Finished building mines at Carna on turn 20...

...

Took Axum on turn 23 and started setting up forts with single units of slingers garrisoning them at the river fords west and north to buy some time in case the Ptolemies decided to attack and by now, the severely depleted unification army was on it's way back to the home territory.
After retraining, I sent them over to D'mt with 2 more units of archer spearmen and a unit of light red sea infantry and the faction leader to reinforce the colonial army and get even with the Ptolemies for subjugating Petra.

...

I made D'mt a client kingdom and built roads, a coastal clearing and roads as fast as possible, then started work on the factional MIC to reach lvl3 as soon as possible.

On turn 35, I had taken Ptolemais-Theron and had a yellow full stack sieging the western fort of D'mt, moved most of the army on their way there.

This is how forts can save a campaign: the army there decided to occupy the fort and halt their advance towards Axum for a turn after sieging it for 3 turns, giving my army time to get there before them and sieging them in said fort. With an army that is composed entirely of missile units except for the general's bodyguard and a unit of red sea light infantry, a full stack of low to medium armored units in a fort is mostly target practise. I got 2 units of slingers and 1 unit of arabian infantry from Axum to support my force, and a unit of mercenary swordsmen, entered the fort with my spy, then attacked. After some shooting and moving the cavalry around the gates on the other sides of the fort, an opening appeared. I rushed in my general and the swordsmen, set them to defend and let the enemy come, presenting their weapon side to my missile forces outside of the fort...
In a field battle, the enemy general's bodyguard alone would have been enough to severely deplete my army, but due to the slaughter of D'mt the Ptolemies are open to attack since their southern border is completely defenseless.

3529
(I hope clicking this will yield a better picture of what's going on since I dismally failed to fit in a full-size image)

Now, it is the summer of 261 BC and the uniter of Arabia is on his way to Pselkis to begin liberating Egypt with the united armies (2 Arabian infantry, 1 red sea light infantry, 2 light cavalry, 4 archer-spearmen) while the faction leader is waiting for reinforcements from Arabia, to be recruited as soon as the lvl4 barracks are finished at Maryab and the conqueror of D'mt is expanding the Arabian colonies around Erythrea (building a large town governor's seat) to pacify the region and prepare it for it's future purpose as a military base to supply the first elephants to the army.

When the third army is ready and sets out across the red sea, the faction leader will first take them to Petra, liberate it and bolster his forces there, then if nothing unforeseen happens he will march for Alexandreia to exact terrible vengeance on the hellenic ruling class for their imposing conduct (he is going to enslave the population of Alexandreia).

BTW, I like your signature :clown:

Blxz

02-02-2012, 12:33

I spent alot of time writing all this up and getting immersed into this campaign and for what!?!?

THE P-MAN

Much like life itself, the fun is the journey there rather than the destination. I've yet to actually make the victory screen pop up once in any total war game. I tend to get distracted and head off into the steppes for some fun. But either way, hoping you will have some more of this mini AAR style write-up when your new rig arrives; I thoroughly enjoyed it.

PelicanMan

02-02-2012, 14:03

Hey Guys,

Nachtmeister, you seem to have done things differently this time around starting this campaign. I guess no more turtling!! lol.

I like the way you wrote out what you did; It has definitely given me some ideas. I won't turtle for my next campaign, but I will definitely not blitz; I frankly do not want to deal with AI stack spamming. Once it gets to that point, the battles will become tedious and I will lose interest quickly. I'm all about the build up.

Which leads me to my second point - Blxz hit it right on the head. For me it is the fun in the journey rather than the destination. Blxz, my complain was about continuing the journey because it was going sweet and I invested quite amount of time; that is why I was a bit bitter. Anyways, the next campaign will definitely be sweet; I just do not know who to play as. Sooooo many to choose from. lol

Just a quick update, I received my new speakers in yesterday (nothing crazy; a set of Logitec speakers with a sub) and it definitely blew my mind (hooked up to my laptop). Even my wife was impressed. Now she wants a set for herself. Maybe I should give her this set and invest in a surround sound.... hmmmm.... how to play this one out....

My monitor is coming in Today so I will give you guys an update on how it is when I test it out. A couple more weeks and I should have my computer in!!!!! Can't wait!!!

THE P-MAN

Nachtmeister

02-02-2012, 17:36

Heh XD no more turtling indeed!
Although things are beginning to slow down a bit by now. It is something like 259 or 258 BC now and the uniter of Arabia is now also the punisher of the Ptolemies, having raided every settlement all the way up to Alexandreia. At Diospolis-Megale, he was no longer just expelling the inhabitants but enslaving them instead, same at Memphis and finally, Alexandreia. He had to recruit a number of mercenary units to replenish the severely depleted ranks of his army several times but was moving so fast that the fresh army from Arabia and the faction leader could not keep pace with him even though they were traveling by sea.

I noticed three things that might be of strategic interest:

1) apparently, blocking river fords or passes and thereby cutting off all relatively direct land paths to somewhere does something to AI pathfinding. I noticed a Ptolemaic three-quarter-stack in the middle of Kush on my way to Pselkis. As long as my fast-moving (boosted by drillmaster ancillary) army was in sight, they would follow them - afterwards, they apparently went back to where they had been before that and just stayed put. My admittedly somewhat jumped conclusion would be that the AI "clicks" on the next target settlement directly, finds it's army going in the wrong direction and goes back to the original position on the next turn, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, ri----
You see, one turn, I sent a unit of slingers "through" my forts in northern Dm't to be disbanded at Ptolemais-Theron, but they went east, on the nearest "un-blocked" path to their destination instead of automatically entering and exiting the forts.
This would be even more likely to be bugging the campaign map AI if the blocking forts are not within their sight range.
In that case, it would be kind of an exploit, but since it seems to be a potential partial solution to the issue of stack spamming, I thought you might want to try it. Otherwise, holding on to Dm't and P'Theron without *second* level mines all over Arabia would be impossible if you want to have forces free for offensive action.
... And by then, you'd have huge AI cities all over the place and get into severe economic trouble pacifying them because you'd have to move your capital to keep the first new conquest, exploding corruption in your previously highly profitable home quartet of provinces.
Having to sustain at least one decent offensive army to deal with yellow full stacks and raising bigger garrisons at home to uphold public order and increasing corruption levels in the economic basis of your empire could run you into serious debt and thus make even setting up military occupation in newly conquered regions impossible.....

2) sending an army through enemy territory and raiding settlements on the way counters AI population booms effectively, albeit only for a limited time for any given raid and technically prevents stack spamming by deprieving the AI of it's mass recruitment facilities (raze their barracks, set taxes to maximum, leave the settlement to rebel after two turns *EDIT* - that is, leave immediately and then after you have been away for two turns it will rebel, don't stay in the settlement because your troops will suffer casualties from putting down revolts and in the worst case even your general could get killed, so just keep moving - */EDIT* and let the enemy pick up the pieces until you return with a proper conquest force (for something as big as Egypt, you would need one stack for fighting and three full stacks for garrison units).
This also seems to keep AI recruitment in places you have not yet "visited" in check a bit since they gain a full stack of highly expensive Apeleutheroi every time and they don't disband those --- btw, does anyone here happen to know if such rebellion stacks are taken from the settlement's population count or if they are just "spawned" with no subtraction from the population? When the northern Arabian provinces rebel to me, I am never quite certain about that since the Diadochoi capitals are so close that a distance to capital plus culture penalty for under 2000 inhabitants would hardly warrant riots beyond tax-lowering control unless they leave them without a garrison but on the other hand I have difficulty imaginging them growing to such sizes as 3500 judging from the population growth at normal taxes when I gain the settlements (0.5-1%).

3) upon enslaving the Hellenes of Alexandreia, I looked at the city details on the campaign screen and browsed through my general's traits...
The public order is on a level where I could keep the settlement (if I had enough forces to defend it in the area) without riots with a severely depleted 3/4 stack (resulting in a 1/4 stack on campaign map) due to a "population boom" (growth rate is at 5% with very high taxes and this general holding it is certainly no farmer) and due to several "wealthy" levels from all the enslavements, because the "wealthy" trait decreases unrest.

Alexandreia still has a population of about 7000 and my capital is still Maryab, so I was really surprised to see this. Plus, it is not yet a huge city which makes for great potentials as a future strongly loyal "home" province. But since the population was at roughly 28000 when I attacked, I am assuming that it was close to upgrading to a huge city, so the hastened attack was indeed none too soon.
I am currently not very thrilled by the idea of doing this all over again immediately on AS territory (I am at peace with the Seleukids at the moment and somewhat tired of fighting battles and triple-checking exact enemy positions and movement ranges and on every single turn), but it may be necessary to even send two directly consecutive punishing armies through at least to Persepolis just to counter the insane growth rates of those AI cities.

... well, I definitely agree with you that the journey is the goal in any EB campaign.

AND, congratz on the new sound system! I think Logitech ones are quite swell as they are. If you want to go all-HiFi, you would also need a matching 4000$ vinyl record player and a matching vinyl music library... Right? My point is, I think for listening to music from a computer, those 2-speaker-1-woofer combos are something like the golden cut of performance and price tag. Then again, for watching movies at home, and playing Urban Terror and the likes, a 3D sound solution would probably be very immersing... Myself, I am going to build my own huge speakers and get a Technics 2000 at some point, when/if the right time for it comes. But that's just my personal opinion on audio equipment. In the mean time, I might yet upgrade to a Logitech system like the one you described because my Philips system is starting to get a bit old because I have taken it on several moves and the contacts are not really made for a whole lot of plugging and un-plugging and mainstream speaker-woofer systems have improved somewhat since 2006 when I bought it... Although it has been very faithful and I even repaired it once, sucking the subwoofer membrane back into shape with a vaccuum cleaner after getting it dented on one of the moves, and repairing things makes me bond with them somehow... Anyway, big congratz on your new audio environment! Hey, test it with "In My Dreams" or "Questions" from Crosby, Stills & Nash, and also with "Holy Diver" and "Beirut" from Steps Ahead and "Informer" (the DJ Aphrodite D&B remix) ;)
... Also, that way your wife would have to be nice to you always to use your sound system! :clown:
How's that monitor coming? I'm crossing my fingers for a brilliant result.

PelicanMan

02-02-2012, 19:49

Nach,
well, if you want to know, here is the monitor that I am getting:
http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Monitors_Flat_Panel_Widescreen/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=320-2807

The speakers that I got are:
http://accessories.dell.com/sna/products/Laptop_Notebook_Accessories/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=cadhs1&sku=A2977234

The X51 that I got is:
http://www.dell.com/ca/p/alienware-x51/fs
I picked the third one from the left (upgraded ram to 8gb for free!!!!.... I love negotiating)

And since the computer is great for setting up a connection to the tv, here is a pic of my Man Cave:
https://i40.tinypic.com/axe4q1.jpg

took me three months to build it, but it turned out just the way I wanted it. :yes:

Anyways, Thanks for the tips Nacht.

I still haven't decided as to which faction I will play as....

THE P-MAN

Blxz

02-03-2012, 06:26

Very jealous about that man-cave. And....is that a real fire underneath the TV?

PelicanMan

02-03-2012, 14:56

Yes it is!!!!

I designed it that way... Also, with the TV, if it ever over heats due to it being surrounded by walls on all sides and a fireplace underneath, I have a thermostat behind the TV built into the framing that turns on two super quiet fans and sucks in the cold air from the front.

Here is a better description:
https://i41.tinypic.com/9vee7b.jpg

I spent a bit of time designing this setup and built it in three months. Right now I am working on its brother, the Bar. Just wait until you see those pictures :yes:

Anyways, hope you like!!!! I sure do.

THE P-MAN

Andres

02-03-2012, 15:41

Sweet!

And you built that all by yourself? That's impressive :bow:

d'Arthez

02-03-2012, 15:52

Nice man cave. Any upsurpers in the picture yet (also known as sons)?

PelicanMan

02-03-2012, 16:07

I have a 4 year old Daughter and 18 month old Son. He is quite devious... that's forsure.
They are freakin awesome though; My daughter already speaks 3 languages (Fluent in Polish, English and French) and my Son is well... a trouble maker. I could see him in the slammer one day. lol jj

Moros

02-04-2012, 16:02

:jawdrop: