Looking for ideas (Chosokabe Legendary): how to make Sogo and Miyoshi fight?

[Maltz]

I am at the beginning of the campaign as Chosokabe on Legendary.
It is now Turn 14. I have Tosa and Iyo (from Kono). Got 4 trade nodes west of Kyushu.

Sogo (of Sanuki) is my ally. Miyoshi is my trade partner. Both are at least friendly to me.
Sogo and Miyoshi used to be allied. But Sogo agreed to switch its alliance to me while dropping all ties to Miyoshi.
So now Sogo and Miyoshi dislike each other.

I thought this is enough reason for them to go to war. But it has not happened yet.
I tried to let the game continue to see what will happen. The two clans will hire a bit more army but will soon max out.
Then their army just stand there, doing nothing.

Any advise on how to make them fight each other, so my army can make things more interesting? :p

Note: My eventual goal is to wait until their main force leave their castle, use my ninja to immobilize them, and incite a peasant revolt to take over their rather defenceless castle. Strangely, when I get a rebel out in Miyoshi's main province with the full stack army still in the castle town, the huge main garrison army did nothing about it. Weird...

[spankythehippo]

I am at the beginning of the campaign as Chosokabe on Legendary.
It is now Turn 14. I have Tosa and Iyo (from Kono). Got 4 trade nodes west of Kyushu.

Sogo (of Sanuki) is my ally. Miyoshi is my trade partner. Both are at least friendly to me.
Sogo and Miyoshi used to be allied. But Sogo agreed to switch its alliance to me while dropping all ties to Miyoshi.
So now Sogo and Miyoshi dislike each other.

I thought this is enough reason for them to go to war. But it has not happened yet.
I tried to let the game continue to see what will happen. The two clans will hire a bit more army but will soon max out.
Then their army just stand there, doing nothing.

Any advise on how to make them fight each other, so my army can make things more interesting? :p

Note: My eventual goal is to wait until their main force leave their castle, use my ninja to immobilize them, and incite a peasant revolt to take over their rather defenceless castle. Strangely, when I get a rebel out in Miyoshi's main province with the full stack army still in the castle town, the huge main garrison army did nothing about it. Weird...

So, I'm assuming you want Sogo and Miyoshi to fight, without you joining the fray.

Say, when Sogo and Miyoshi fight, you'll want Sogo to win. So you marry into their clan. At the same time, cut off all relations with Miyoshi, and if possible, demand trade embargoes with other clans that are related to Miyoshi. So now Miyoshi is isolated. If done correctly, and with other factors in play, Miyoshi will dislike you. But they won't declare war on you. I'm pretty sure that Miyoshi will dislike Sogo, just for being affiliated with your clan, i.e. Chosokabe.

On many occasions, I have noticed that random clans I don't even know have "Marriage with enemy clan" thing. And the clans that I married into aren't even enemies with that clan. This lead me to believe that clans do not have to be at war to be enemies, and I believe there is more to the Friendliness of a clan. If a clan is friendly/very friendly, it is practically an ally, without being an ally. If they're indifferent, they're just there. And if they're unfriendly/hostile they're considered enemies. I used this to my advantage, and I wanted to do what you want as well. Cause fights and just watch. So I actually formulated a strategy on paper on who I should isolate. With my crude Clan Friendliness Theory, I decided to start doing occasional raid's with my ninja's on the clan I wanted eliminated. This is even more crucial on Legendary, since even the slightest actions can have the biggest consequences. I tried not to destroy clans with armies. I focused on destroying them from the inside. With this in mind, I tried not to get into the Hostile scale, in case war breaks out. Just sabotages on farms. Nothing else. Just enough to piss them off.

With my theory, I cannot validate it, but it did work for me.

EDIT: I just realised what your main goal was. Just to take over their provinces via revolts. So why do you want Sogo to be at war with Miyoshi? In one of my campaigns, I whittled down Kikkawa from 12 provinces to 3 with my monk-ninja partnership. Sabotage, incite revolt, destroy rebels, repeat. But it took a long :daisy: time.

[Maltz]

Thanks for the input.

The problem with Shigoku provinces is that they are too small.
The rebel of Awa (Miyoshi's closer province) gets stuck when revolted, doing nothing, if there is an superior army in the castle. So I have to move that army out of the castle first. (I guess you can call that a map bug.)

[spankythehippo]

Thanks for the input.

The problem with Shigoku provinces is that they are too small.
The rebel of Awa (Miyoshi's closer province) gets stuck when revolted, doing nothing, if there is an superior army in the castle. So I have to move that army out of the castle first. (I guess you can call that a map bug.)

Just a question. What is their temperament? When I was playing as Takeda, I controlled all of Japan, except for Honma, the little island. They were peaceful, but hostile. And they were at war with me, but didn't do anything.

[Maltz]

They are both the "nice guy" types. :sweatdrop:

[sassbarman]

I want a story Maltz!

[Gregoshi]

I want a story Maltz!
You already have it: Discharge the Honourable: Chosokabe (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?139997-Discharge-the-Honourable-Chosokabe-(Legendary-Domination)). :bow:

[Jacobin]

I've usually ended up allying with one and attacking the other and then packing off my early army to take the three rich provinces in the NW of Kyushu which I find absolutely crucial for winning with Chokosabe (and probably the other western clans if I get round to playing them) - in my current legendary Chokosabe campaign Sogo stayed loyal right up until Realm Divide and so gave me the benefit of trade and their stone resource without the need to occupy and defend it.

As regards them fighting each other that does seem purely up to chance - at least at legendary the AI seems much less prone to attack other AI clans of roughly equal size and military power and particularly after RD their alliances and trade agreements never seem to change.

I really do miss the greater diplomatic options from earlier TW games - particularly the option to give away and buy provinces.