Forge bonus?

[Damnas]

Hi,
I keep seeing some temples having a forge bonus, but I have no idea what it is or does. I've looked around but can't find any clear answer. Far as I understood, it gives bonuses to weapons and armours, but at the same time I saw in the EB FAQ that such bonuses had been removed for the sake of realism. Help appreciated ;p

[Ca Putt]

What faction are you playing? Does the bonus show up amongst the other boni aka + 20 public order through law etc. or is it listed in the discription text(in this case it only applies to mining traits of FMs)? When you que it, do you get extra income from mining?

[Grygus]

I am pretty sure that "boni" does not mean what you think it means. I am starting to see this a lot on these boards. The word you're looking for there is "bonuses."

[Lysimachos]

I am pretty sure that "boni" does not mean what you think it means. I am starting to see this a lot on these boards. The word you're looking for there is "bonuses."

Boni is the latin plural of bonus. Bonuses is the anglified version. Both are correct.

[Alrik]

Boni is the latin plural of bonus. Bonuses is the anglified version. Both are correct.

Sure, depending on what language you are speaking.
Seeing as most of the posts here are in English, I assume that's the case in the other cases Grygus is referring too, as it is in this thread. Throwing the odd word in from a different language is considered weird, when you know the word in the language otherwise used.

[Alrik]

EDIT: Weird dubblepost... dunno what happened...

[Ca Putt]

Sorry for replacing a dreadfull anglified version of a word with the much more appealing latin plural in a forum mostly about a Strategy game mod that focuses on Historically accurate depiction of Ancient warfare and consequently also houses some discussions on Hellenistic Antiquity in general. I am deeply sorry to confuse you with the awfully long, complex and hard to decipher word "boni" and most of all I'm Terribly sorry that I was actually trying to help the poor Damnas with my post, something I should probably avoid in future.

[moonburn]

the boni in the late roman repulic was a senatorial faction that considered themselfs the rightous amonst wich stared aeonarbus or cato and most of the old traditionalists patricians (including the brutii)

they always used the Mos Maiourum as an excuse to persecute all of those they considered the next sulla

so bonii can have many meanings in a strategy game that regards historical acuraccy

[Ca Putt]

Well It's clear I do not speak about the Optimates.

And I don't see your post helping Damnas in any way.

[Nachtmeister]

Come on! Let's not bash boni. Take it out on the Ptolemaioi instead. ;)

I am not such an awesome temples specialist as LUDENS, and I am not citing any sources except for my gameplay experience with various factions.
I have never encountered a settlement where I could train troops with anything other than experience --- *augmentations* and blacksmith-conferred +1 modifications to (un-ranged) attack and (armour) defense.
The only units in my campaigns with silver or gold weapons or defense upgrades were rebellion-spawned troops in rebellious settlements, sometimes (as Sab'Yn) settlements rebelling to me. I don't think those were connected to temples because the settlements in question rarely ever had a temple in them (I destroyed the ptolemaic cities' temples to Ptah upon conquest because they don't have any effect for the Sab'Yn faction other than maybe a negative effect of public order due to foreign culture.
I am thus assuming that if there are any such "forge" effects in the game, it is likely a bug and using them would be an exploit, but I don't think it is even possible.

Off topic - by the way, does anyone know why Ludens' guide to temples was removed from the helpful PDF documents download section on the EB website?

[Damnas]

Easy guys, it's all good :)

I'm playing as the Romans right now, so the temple in question was the one to Minerva which also provides law and happiness bonuses, but no moral for military troops. Hence why I'm confused as to the bonus it gives. I haven't noticed any differences in a city's income after building the temple, asides from the minor differences occurring due to troops being made or population increasing/decreasing. I also haven't noticed any particular ancillary, but I could have missed that - I'm still relatively new to EB and learning the ropes here...

[Nachtmeister]

mmm... I can't say I tried it myself, but going by what I've heard so far I usually don't bother with tax temples.
IMHO the most productive approach to temples is selecting them for construction by priorities:

- close to capital: trade bonus, population growth bonus (esp. when playing with huge unit size)
- rest of the world: law bonus

this is because corruption will seriously damage the income in cities and law helps public order the same way that happiness does but at the same time it reduces corruption drastically. Take a look at settlement details scrolls from the build menu; on the income section (lowest) you can mouse-over the "grubby hands of corruption" and see how much the local administration is squandering with bakshish. Then, set up a law temple in the building cue and compare the blinking hands' value and the remaining ones' value - the amount of money lost is going to be reduced to the second of the two values. Calculate the difference and you'll have the amount the temple is practically going to "produce" for you every round. (That's only the *first* level of the temple, it increases as the law bonus increases with consecutive temple levels of course...)
Thus, in most of your provinces, you are going to want to have law temples, the exception being those that are so close to your capital that they are free of corruption.

... Some factions have access to temples that have both trade and law effects, such as Poseidon (Koinon Hellenon; "battle temple" btw) or Hawbas (Sab'Yn, "farming"). These make sense especially in provinces that are in the mid-range area, with some distance to the capital but not so far away that they would benefit from the full law bonus capacity of a maxed temple...

With KH, I also like to role-play that Poseidon must be extremely important as the faction is practically dependant upon sea dominance to hold all the places in their VC unless you go and blitz the whole map with them, or, in role-playing terms, the sea is the connection keeping their far-spread people in touch and the sea trade is what gives them prosperity.

With the Sab'Yn, the only temple that really makes sense to build at the start of the game is the law temple (Athtar - sp?), since the settlements are so far between that even in the process of uniting just southern and eastern Arabia, or claiming back a part of the homeland territory across the red sea, you beging to incur serious levels of corruption and when you try to press on the campaign for victory, you must move your capital to Egypt or Homna or Charax, depending on the order of your expansion.

... At the start of a campaign with Arche Seleukeia or the Ptolemaioi (any large empire faction), it makes some sense to tear down several existing non-law temples and replace them with law temples on the first round of the game...

Despite the heavy modding ("battle god" Poseidon no longer confers morale and weapon upgrades but trade and law boons instead), it does still seem to have an effect what kind of temple you have in engine-terms ("battle", in this case) - because it can affect certain traits in governors who are inside the settlement with the temple. Poseidon temples apparently can cause governors to get the "anger" trait.

... And that's all I can think of regarding temples... Here, check this awesome guide by Ludens (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?96629-Guide-to-Temples-in-Europa-Barbarorum).

[Grygus]

Boni is the latin plural of bonus. Bonuses is the anglified version. Both are correct.

Incorrect. Boni is the plural of bonus in Latin, but bonus in Latin is not the same word. It does not mean the same thing, nor is it the same part of speech. The manner in which you are using it is strictly an English construct, and Latin rules cannot be correctly applied. Feel free to look this up; the information is easily available.


Sorry for replacing a dreadfull anglified version of a word with the much more appealing latin plural in a forum mostly about a Strategy game mod that focuses on Historically accurate depiction of Ancient warfare and consequently also houses some discussions on Hellenistic Antiquity in general. I am deeply sorry to confuse you with the awfully long, complex and hard to decipher word "boni" and most of all I'm Terribly sorry that I was actually trying to help the poor Damnas with my post, something I should probably avoid in future.

You perceive a personal attack where there is only an attempt to impart knowledge. You do not have to thank me, but this reaction is not constructive. I have no problem with using Latin here, since as you note the environment is appropriate, but surely you would want to know if you are making a mistake. If you called a hoplon a hoplite, would you not expect correction? I do not see why this is any different. No offense was intended.

[Nachtmeister]

:balloon2: Here Grygus, have a baloon for the ultimate clarification.

...
..
.
*TROLL*
Although one could argue that latin grammar application would be valid even building up on your argument since "bonus" came to be used in english language with new connotations and those could hold for the plural form as well. Since it is perceived by some to be so, it would become a question of statistics.
Hey we could have a brawl about which new word to use whenever we encounter a specific need for expression that is not directly covered by an existing word. Myself, I think the word "sug-sug" confers the meaning of "casual coitus" very well. And it even upholds the alliteration. Who's with me? :clown:

[Lysimachos]

Incorrect. Boni is the plural of bonus in Latin, but bonus in Latin is not the same word. It does not mean the same thing, nor is it the same part of speech. The manner in which you are using it is strictly an English construct, and Latin rules cannot be correctly applied. Feel free to look this up; the information is easily available.

Thank you for the correction. I was going from a false assumption, because in my native language "bonus" is used the same way as in english, but the plural can indeed correctly be formed in the latin way as "boni". I just assumed it would be the same in english, because the meaning of the word went through the same modification.

[Ca Putt]

Sounds valid, thank you for the insight(no sarcasm this time^^) but I still find it rather rude to post grammer corrections without actually contributing to the Topic at hand, or even attemting the same. A "I have never seen such a bonus in EB and am pretty sure it does not exist" would have been perfectly adequate and would justify any further corrections.


Thank you for the correction. I was going from a false assumption, because in my native language "bonus" is used the same way as in english, but the plural can indeed correctly be formed in the latin way as "boni". I just assumed it would be the same in english, because the meaning of the word went through the same modification. Here aswell.

[Andres]

It seems like some worked their fingers to the bonus to elaborate on some latin grammar issues. That's a nice bonus to this informative and bonus thread.

I'm here all day.

[Blxz]

It seems like some worked their fingers to the bonus

Haha. I see what you did.

[moonburn]

as best as i´m aware the morale bonus do not work in eb someone broke the damm thing

as for the best alliteration for the casual coitus sug-sug seems rather naive
i would stand with the black slang of the 50´s "rock and roll" wich as you know ended up naming a kind of music to get into girls panties

ofc we´re talking english here so a proper word in deustch can be complicated to find i just normally refer to it as flick altough it doesn´t have the same innuendo (meaning)

[Damnas]

I'll do a few experiments with the temple and try and figure it out. Thanks for the assistance and the linguistic lesson ;p

[athanaric]

Myself, I think the word "sug-sug" confers the meaning of "casual coitus" very well. And it even upholds the alliteration.
In which language?



ofc we´re talking english here so a proper word in deustch can be complicated to find i just normally refer to it as flick altough it doesn´t have the same innuendo (meaning)
You mean "flicken" (to repair) as a substitute for ":daisy:" (to copulate)?

This is your boring moderator speaking: Let's be careful with the language here. F-bombs, even in a different language, are a big no-no here at the .Org - Andres :bow:

[moonburn]

deustch is like my 5th language so yeap flicken repair that .... porn with mechanics, repairmen and such probably had some wierd effect on my views on sexuality wich made me wanna be a washing machine repairman instead of a lawyer or a police officer (and still i ended up in college )

[Nachtmeister]

In which language?

My communication background is a mix of english and german.

Sug-sug is not an original idea of my own though. I encountered it in an english trash movie where a bunch of cave-men find a grrrl and have a discussion about what to do about this strange, interesting being. One of them (Jackie Chan, I think) is talking english all the time and offers an assortment of english words that suggest a less direct approach, but one of the guys starts getting louder with his own suggestion ("SUG-SUG!! RRRRAAAAAWWWRRRRHHH!!") and hefting his cave-club, so the english talking guy eventually says, "all right, fine. Sug-sug."

You could also spell it "Zoog-zoog".


... And I like the part about dishwashers and good music there.


as for the best alliteration for the casual coitus sug-sug seems rather naive
i would stand with the black slang of the 50´s "rock and roll" wich as you know ended up naming a kind of music to get into girls panties

ofc we´re talking english here so a proper word in deustch can be complicated to find i just normally refer to it as flick altough it doesn´t have the same innuendo (meaning)


deustch is like my 5th language so yeap flicken repair that .... porn with mechanics, repairmen and such probably had some wierd effect on my views on sexuality wich made me wanna be a washing machine repairman instead of a lawyer or a police officer (and still i ended up in college )

A true proper work motivation. Helps you get up in the morning and leave the EB computer for a while. So you can work to pay for the electricity bills... I think I'm going to get myself an old dishwasher to learn how to repair dishwashers.

:> Guten Tag. Ich bin gekommen, um ihren Geschirrspüler zu flicken. *lblblblblbl*

Good day. I have come to patch up your dishwasher. *lblblblblblbl*

Awesome.

Oh you meant washing machines. Nevermind, I think dishwashers are better since you get the kitchen boards to do your work and the living room is probably close by with a couch and carpet and you can send the guy watching TV in there to get your beer after you are done.