Barbarian faction opinons

[PureEvil[PIE]]

I have completed the campaigns for Casse and Sweboz, and have started the Aedui and Arverni campaigns. I have to say I love the barbarian factions, the way they fight through skilled melee combat and all out offensive aggression is fantastic. I have played Saba, Carthage, Rome (almost finished Carthage) and I have started Saka Rauka. But I still prefer the barbarian factions, a great deal more in fact (with the Casse being my favourite for having champions, the most unique strategy to fighting out of all the Europa Barbarorum factions I've played in my opinion). Just wondering what your opinions on the barbarian factions are compared to the other factions :>

[Fluvius Camillus]

Barbarian factions certainly get nice armies, with the noble/hero/elites being really awesome. Especially if you compare the possibilities of RTW barbarians with EB, the team has done a splendid job.

The only barbarians I have really played are the Arverni, which I really liked at first, uniting Gaul. Then I established a sturdy border at the Elbe and the Ebro and destroyed the Romani. Although I could invade Britain and expand in the Mediterrean I don't really get the imperial feel from midgame I get with the Romani, Hellenic and Eastern factions. It's easier to roleplay huge empires with those in my opinion.

Happy campaigning!

~Fluvius

[PureEvil[PIE]]

I totally agree with you about the "imperial feel", it does feel a lot more...realistic and easier roleplaying wise to continue with Carthage and Rome to make huge empires than it does with the barbarian factions.

[Frtigern]

I love variety and that's what barbarians are good at. I love the sight of axes upon Roman heads and limbs. I also love ordering a charge of fanatics to crush enemy lines, I can taste the fear in their ranks. Two handed weapons make for an awesome sight.

[PureEvil[PIE]]

Totally agree with you, who needs shields and armour when you've got your trusty human-sized sword and your brother in arms by your side :>

[Ca Putt]

I really like to play as one of the "barbarian" factions in EB once in a while, a real fan of Sweboz and Getai. A nice thing about Sweboz are the "local" variants of your basic units, something I love roleplaying with. Whereas Getai... Super skirmishers, Hoplitesque Line holders, Super cheap Choppaz and even acces to light lancers and HAs, now that's a great roster!

One thing I really like about these armies is the totally different view on enemy troops: romans eg. With Carthagians or greeks: the thing my soldiers "fear" are regiments of Pedites extraordinari whereas ranged troops are more of a nuisance to keep away from your backside but otherwise perfectly harmless.
With Sweboz or Getai my soldiers (or rather I) think: 'YAY shiny armor, that will look great between the other trophies!' but as soon as ranged troops in form of Sotaroas or Toxotai pop up I'm all 'cautious stay out of range, take cover in forests, don't show them your rightside, NO!!!!! RUNAWAY!!!' or rather 'charge! before they get to fire a second salvo, you're local troops anyway'

[konny]

Although I could invade Britain and expand in the Mediterrean I don't really get the imperial feel from midgame I get with the Romani, Hellenic and Eastern factions. It's easier to roleplay huge empires with those in my opinion.Absolutly. With the Romans, one of the Successors or the Parthians you have some kind of "mission" to subdue large parts of the maps that's somehow lacking when playing a Barbarian faction. For example, it does feel somewhat odd when creating something like the Ottonian Empire with the Sweboz, try to unite all Celts across the map with the Aedui or hopping over to Africa with the Lusotans.

I have now (re-)started a Casse campaign. This time I did not disband my ship and army but crossed the channel to get my hands on Belgia proper. So far I am enjoying it very much and I am looking foreward to the "Hundred Years Wars" with the Aedui while at the time very slowly expanding in Britain.

[Brennus]

I love the barbarian factions. The Casse and Aedui being my favourite along with AS and Sauromatae. The unit variation which people have been discussing is certainly one of the main attractions with the barbarian fwctions, not to mention some of the units available to barbarian factions like the Belgic Minhalt, Leuce Epos, Cidanh (there is nothing better for dealing with light cav) and Venetic ships. My main drawback when playing as the barbarians is I am not very good at it. I have got close a few times with the Casse and my current Aedui campaign has already seen the sacking of Rome but I always find myself in a Sweboz-Roman vice with an economy insufficient to enable a counter offensive.

[PureEvil[PIE]]

I have got close a few times with the Casse and my current Aedui campaign has already seen the sacking of Rome but I always find myself in a Sweboz-Roman vice with an economy insufficient to enable a counter offensive. I had this problem with the Aedui, that's the main reason I haven't completed that campaign yet. I was too busy fighting the Arverni and Lusotann I was taken by surprise when I suddenly saw brown armies peering into view :<.

[Brennus]

Sorry to sound rude but how long have you been fighting the Arverni for?

[PureEvil[PIE]]

Not sure in years/seasons, but I did put them down quite early, I was just fighting Lusotann and Romans (towards the most recent of my campaigning with Aedui), I didn't venture far North so I didn't notice the Sweboz getting stronger. How could you sound rude o.o

[Brennus]

;2053420325']Not sure in years/seasons, but I did put them down quite early, I was just fighting Lusotann and Romans (towards the most recent of my campaigning with Aedui), I didn't venture far North so I didn't notice the Sweboz getting stronger. How could you sound rude o.o

I was just worried when you said you were fighting the Lusotanni and Arverni you meant at the same time, either meaning that the Lusotanni had blitzed up to Gaul or you were taking a long time to beat the Arverni. I didn't wan't to cause offence by saying "You should really have the Arverni beat in the first 2 years" and have you say something along the lines of "Serious!?". A little trick for you when playing as the Aedui, once you have beaten the Arverni there is no better time to invade Rome. The Romans are occupied with the Epirots in Tarentum and by hugging the Appenine mountains you can fight your battles defensively, let the legions wear themsevles out climbing to meet you and then smash them with a charge of botroas. This way I managed to sneek into Italy, sack Rome and burn the Capitol. In honour of my namesake I got them to pay me to go away and using a non-agression pact they were more than happy to sign I was able to get back across the Alps with my army in tact.

Venturing north as the Gauls is a very good idea, IMO, it opens up more ports ot trade with the Britons (lots of lovely tin to be had) and gives you access to three of the best troop types available to the Celts: Remi cavalry, Belgic spearmen (impassable) and Belgic swordsmen (unstoppable). It does mean you keep having to watch the Sweboz border but with Belgic troops its possible to break pretty much any German invasion. It's the Romans who you have to be wary of.

[athanaric]

I was just worried when you said you were fighting the Lusotanni and Arverni you meant at the same time, either meaning that the Lusotanni had blitzed up to Gaul or you were taking a long time to beat the Arverni. I didn't wan't to cause offence by saying "You should really have the Arverni beat in the first 2 years" and have you say something along the lines of "Serious!?".Depends. I like to press the Arverni eastwards (after having taken Viennos and Gergovia) to create a buffer between me and the Suebi. Doesn't always work though. In one campaign (abandoned due to corrupted savegame files) the Arverni just didn't fight the Swêboz. In fact, they surrendered faster than their descendants did in WWII. It was really awful. It works well though when I'm playing the Swêboz, and using the Arverni as a shield to the West and South.



It's the Romans who you have to be wary of.Especially seeing as you don't have dedicated AP troops. Teceitos are only recruitable in some border provinces and become unavailable after the second reform. Tekastos and Appea Gaedotos are good but only regionally available as well. Not to mention they're not really Gallic (meaning it doesn't feel right to use them in "royal" armies or to spam them like Gaelaiche or Bataroas). Likewise for Illyrian clubmen (with the additional problem that they're useless against other barbarians). Sure, slingers and cavalry have AP attacks, but they aren't too terribly effective vs Romans as main damage dealers. This is what I dislike about the Gallic factions. All other barbarians have some basic anti-armour unit that is widely available in their homeland (Casse - Teceitos; Getai - Drapanai/Kostobok axemen; Lusotannan - Caetrannan; Swêboz - Sloxonez).

[Blxz]

and gives you access to three of the best troop types available to the Celts: Remi cavalry, Belgic spearmen (impassable) and Belgic swordsmen (unstoppable).

I am a little suspicious of bias due to your field of study. :clown:

[Brennus]

I am a little suspicious of bias due to your field of study. :clown:

lol. :balloon2: for paying attention to my posts. Thank you.

[rickinator9]

I haven't played any barbarian faction as of yet. I like the civilised nations with their heavy armor a lot more. Does any one of you know a nice barbarian faction for a player like me?

[Sylon]

If you're particularly attached to armoured infantry, I would suggest either the Getai or the Lusotanna. All the barbarian factions have armoured units, of course, but the Germans and Britons tend to be poorly armoured (with only a handful of exceptions) while the Gauls are so-so.

[Arjos]

while the Gauls are so-so.

O.o

Arverni and Aedui are the most armoured factions of the barbarian culture slot with their third reform...

Getai and Lusotannan, have huge shields and pectorals at most, except for the Ischyroi Orditon or the Loricati Scutari...

[athanaric]

I haven't played any barbarian faction as of yet. I like the civilised nations with their heavy armor a lot more. Does any one of you know a nice barbarian faction for a player like me?Gauls. They also have the best economy&infrastructure of all barbarian factions. (Not pictured: more Celtic auxiliaries with medium armour).
36513652365336543655

[Sylon]

O.o

Arverni and Aedui are the most armoured factions of the barbarian culture slot with their third reform...

Getai and Lusotannan, have huge shields and pectorals at most, except for the Ischyroi Orditon or the Loricati Scutari...

True, but you're hardly going to make armies consisting mainly of Solduros or Druids, now, are you? My definition of an armoured faction takes into account not the heaviest armoured unit a faction has, but how much armour a regular army would possess. The Gallic elites may have more armour than the Lusotannen ones, but your average Gallic army is going to consist largely of lightly-armoured spearmen and swordsmen, while an average Lusotannen army is going to consist of medium-armoured Lusotannen and Iberian infantry.

Of course, a large portion of this is down to personal playstyle- that is to say, how much you tend to use elites.

EDIT: Though, looking up the updated EB unit list, it seems that Lusotannen spearmen got a nerf in the armour department in 1.2. Also, I missed the existence of Neitos, which would be fairly affordable heavy infantry. My bad.

EDIT 2: Edited in a quote to make it clearer who I was speaking to.

[team_kramnik]

Lusotannan Medium Spearmen still have their eleven armor. I depending on how you select the unit sometimes the stats don't update from the last selected one. Atleast I also got some strange stats as well. Anyway:
http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/index.php?mp=unit&unit=iberian%20infantry%20scortamavera%20merc&text=&ownership=any&class=any&category=any

Anyway no matter their armor Lusotannan, Getai and Sweboz troops have always made a more professional impression on me. I think it depends on the prefered playing style. Celts depend on the charge. Sweboz duke it out in line-battles. Luso are my favourites.You can either ambush the enemy and try to lure it into traps on the battlefield. Or block the enemy with your heavy troops and then use your various specialists to destroy them. Getai of course kill the enemy before you can even make a plan.

Edit: reread the question: yes Gauls have most armour of the barbarian faction. And you get more and more of it with reforms.

[konny]

I am a little suspicious of bias due to your field of study. :clown:
That, but indeed I too find the Belgic Swordsmen one of the best units the Barbarians can get their hands on. I don't know what makes them so special because their stats are not that exceptional, but I find them regulary cutting through everything that comes popping up along the Channel. They even can give Rycalawre (what I had made the Casse bodyguard instead of chariots) a serious headache toe to toe, for example in a town square.

The spearmen are not that dramatically good, but they are level 1(!) where you otherwise get just Lugoae.

[athanaric]

True, but you're hardly going to make armies consisting mainly of Solduros or Druids, now, are you? My definition of an armoured faction takes into account not the heaviest armoured unit a faction has, but how much armour a regular army would possess. The Gallic elites may have more armour than the Lusotannen ones, but your average Gallic army is going to consist largely of lightly-armoured spearmen and swordsmen, while an average Lusotannen army is going to consist of medium-armoured Lusotannen and Iberian infantry.
Fair point - the Gauls hardly have medium spearmen with basic armour (Gaelaiche are good but they only have a shirt). Lusitanians and Getai do. However, in late campaign, you can field decent numbers of Neitos and Arjos with some justification (your faction getting rich, contact with Romans that necessitates an core of armoured line infantry, etc.).
Furthermore, the economy is an argument. A player coming from the more civilized factions will find the Celts easier to manage than the other "savages" (including nomads here). The fact that the Lusotannan are situated in one of the (potentially) richest regions in the game tends to hide the fact that their tech tree is really inferior to almost any other faction (excluding Saka and Sauromatae). Getai are just as weak in this respect, their redeeming feature being the extremely varied roster which makes it easy to conquer Greece or other rich neighbourhoods.

The problem with Lusitanian troops is also that they have two weaknesses - one being missiles and the other close combat.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

That, but indeed I too find the Belgic Swordsmen one of the best units the Barbarians can get their hands on. I don't know what makes them so special because their stats are not that exceptional, but I find them regulary cutting through everything that comes popping up along the Channel. They even can give Rycalawre (what I had made the Casse bodyguard instead of chariots) a serious headache toe to toe, for example in a town square.

The spearmen are not that dramatically good, but they are level 1(!) where you otherwise get just Lugoae.

Belgic Swordsmen are so good because of their spacing. Line them up next to Bataroas or Botroas and look at the difference. Every one of their opponents is facing two Milnaht basically, although they will be more easily flanked because of this. Spacing gives them a lot of pushing power as well so they generally have their opponents moving backwards. Also the big shield helps against javelins.

I too would advise Gauls for someone who prefers civilized factions. They have more armor than other barbarian factions and (a huge plus in my book) can build nifty paved roads.

[athanaric]

Belgic Swordsmen are so good because of their spacing. Line them up next to Bataroas or Botroas and look at the difference. Every one of their opponents is facing two Milnaht basically, although they will be more easily flanked because of this. Spacing gives them a lot of pushing power as well so they generally have their opponents moving backwards. Also the big shield helps against javelins.
That's the same reason why Swêboz units are astonishingly powerful. Even their skirmishers have relatively tight spacing. Don't forget the morale and discipline of the Belgian troops though, which is what makes them so reliable.

[Frtigern]

I look for high morale (16+), highly trained, and impetuous. Also like to make sure I have axemen or falxmen in my armies so I can send them specifically against armored infantry. I like the Iberian troops because of their armor piercing swords and their real effective javelins. Never underestimate superior numbers of alpine shortswordsmen against lesser numbers of heavier armored swordsmen. I always try to make the heavy infantry tired with skirmishers and cavalry with slingers firing on their flanks first and then charge them with my mass of crazed wildmen!

[Blxz]

lol. :balloon2: for paying attention to my posts. Thank you.

Much appreciated; they tend to be interesting posts. My first balloon also.



can build nifty paved roads
Hit the nail on the head here. I lately have been sticking with paved roads factions just because building up infrastructure is fun.

[Brennus]

Does anyone have any tips on just how to get the Gallic economy moving?

[athanaric]

Does anyone have any tips on just how to get the Gallic economy moving?
The problem with the Gauls is, as you know, that they have a difficult start. I tend to get into huge debt with the Aedui at the start, much worse than with Swêboz. Of course you know the relevant stuff, like disband your fleet, use up your armies to defeat the rival faction, and take one or two Eleutheroi settlements. Once you've got to the point where you're in the plus, you should focus on getting paved roads. They're the most cost-efficient building in EB and also help with public order issues. Apart from that (and in first place in those settlements that aren't cities yet), sea ports, healers, and tier 2 farms are important. After these, look to markets and river ports. Of course you'll need to keep a tight regimen, which means taxes at max, small armies with only a few swordsmen and cavalry units, and so on.

If you can take Helvetis, it will provide you with two silver mines (apart from the obvious kickass auxiliaries).
Tolosa has a mine and a pre-built tier 1 (which you can upgrade to tier 2) sea port (and a few goodies).
Same for Burdigala, except the mine of course. Tolosa can also have a tier 2 military port.
Darioritum can be taken easily and comes with a pre-built tier 2 port, which can be upgraded to tier 3.
Massilia has a pre-built tier 1 port which can be upgraded to tier 3 with a Type I or II government. Unfortunately, Aedui can only have a Type III government in Massilia, which only allows for tier 2. Also, the Romans love Massilia, so you'll need to develop your MICs there (native one first, since it has Botroas and other choppy blokes) and possibly crank out some Sphendonetai.

[Arjos]

With Keltoi, all you need are 3-4 Botroas or Bataroas and 1 FL or FH, with that set-up you can conquer all Gallia, with the enemy sallying forth...
It's not even funny, poor AI, how much we abused it XD

As athanaric pointed out, what matters are mines and ports; cut expenses on units that you really don't need, sticking to Iaosatae and Bataroas...

[Blxz]

Indeed. Cutting expenses is the main thing here. Once you get some development going in 20 years or so down the track then the heavy units can come pouring out. Until then you are looking at family member cavalry and smallish armies of low level troops. Often lowering taxes is worth more than higher taxes with a larger garrison in the early game.

And don't be afraid to go into some massive debt. Its easy enough to get 20K or so in debt but if you use that time fighting and taking a few cities your cost goes down and income goes up. Just get it slightly positive and then stay alive.

[athanaric]

What I actually meant to say (it probably came out wrong) is that you can't (or shouldn't) afford many Leuce Epos and Bataroas in early game. Although both units are so cost-efficient it isn't even funny. Apart from the lack of AP units, the Gauls also lack good spearmen in early game - those Lugoae are useful, but they aren't very versatile or reliable compared to other spearmen. Gaeroas are better, but only available in some border regions. This tempts the human player to abuse Bataroas, which leads to slightly derpy stacks of several units of longswordsmen with little else attached except for slingers. Thus, I'm always torn between my interpretation of historical accuracy (more spearmen) and efficient gameplay. It gets better with Gaelaiche, of course. But then you'll lose the chariots...

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Go for the two Alpine provinces to the south-east as Aedui, the Helvetii province and the Rhaetic province. Both have mining income and wonderful auxiliaries. Alpine Phalanx, Rhaetic Axemen and the super Mori Gaesum are all phenomonal units. Once you are strong enough you can attack the super Eleutheroi at Iuvoaeta and move on into Central Europe.

[athanaric]

Once you are strong enough you can attack the super Eleutheroi at Iuvoaeta and move on into Central Europe.
... And meet the Black Death there. Or alternatively, the Teal Death. Either way, you'll have to fight those battles manually. Not to mention hordes of Romans and Germans on your flanks (Tekastos are great against Romans though). Central Europe does present its own challenges...

[Arjos]

This tempts the human player to abuse Bataroas, which leads to slightly derpy stacks of several units of longswordsmen

I spoke of 3-4 units, that works just right with a chief's warrior class minority armed with swords...
In a full stack you would have 8 levy/youths spearmen, 3 warriors spears, 3 warriors swords, 2 heavy spear and sword nobles, 2-3 light cavalry and 1-2 heavy cavalry...

That always sounded about right to me...

[team_kramnik]

Go for the two Alpine provinces to the south-east as Aedui, the Helvetii province and the Rhaetic province.

Those 2 are also a great location to migrate as Seleucids with a resulting very odd greek-celtic roster.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

... And meet the Black Death there. Or alternatively, the Teal Death. Either way, you'll have to fight those battles manually. Not to mention hordes of Romans and Germans on your flanks (Tekastos are great against Romans though). Central Europe does present its own challenges...

Well if you are strong enough to take on the rebel full stacks of doom you should have at least bottled up the Romans and sacked a few of their cities, or destroyed them entirely. The Lusos are annoying to fight against so I usually attempt to assist Carthage instead in a war between the two, take the northern Iberian cities and fort up a few river crossings. And the Sweboz, well, once your economy is up and running they don't present much of a challenge if you have plenty of javelin and longsword infantry. Central Europe more importantly gives you provinces needed for victory reqs and also helps you unite the Celtic homelands as well as getting you mining income and some unique Celtic infantry units to play with.

[Brennus]

I will post a picture of my Aedui game if people like and you can critique me on what i'm doing.

[Blxz]

Post away.

[Brennus]

Here is the Aedui Confederacy of Brennus:

3703

I delinated the border so as to show the extent of my territory. For some reason Patavium rebelled to me recenly, I doubt I will be able to hold it.

The army selected is my main force, currently retraining in Bibracte. I have already destroyed the Arverni and ten years earlier I managed to sack Rome (I still have a save game so I can go back and do it all over again!).

EDIT:

Also a screen showing my territories in Gaul itself (seemed a better idea than a shot of Patavium)

3704

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Nice shots, Brennus. What was the Heroic Victory near Bononia? Was that yours?

Nice Aedui empire in Gaul, too. My own Aedui game is less advanced, since after the initial war in 272-270 I chose to leave the defeated Arveni alive in Gergovia, and made peace with them using the Force Diplomacy mod. Since then, they've been attacking the Eleutheroi in southern Gaul, while I've been attacking Eleutheroi in northern Gaul.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Nice Aedui Empire Brennus. If I were you, I would kick the Sweboz out of the Alps in Rhaetia and take the Celtic town across the Rhine from the Sequanian province. That town actually gives good recruitment options for Gallic factions and gives you a base across the Rhine to hold down the Sweboz from. It looks like the Romans are still strong...did you sack Capua too? That is a must, just lower than Rome on the priority list or else you will be facing full stacks of Triarii and PE which is never fun when you lack ap units. In this order I would:

1. Send some units from the northern army south to recapture Mediolanium and hopefully meet up with the Patavium garrison. Focus on building this army a bit with the "Cisalpine" Gallic units like Botroas and Gaeroas and use this southern army to be the shield against Rome instead of having to run your northern army south all the time. This army can be about 8-9 units strong.

2. A smaller northern army of 10 units or so will be enough to deal with Sweboz, considering you won't need to storm anymore rebel towns that army size should be fine. Send them to take Rhaetia first, then north to take whatever that town is called east of Vesontio. This town will be the rock the Sweboz tide breaks against.

3. After you retrain your northern and southern armies, an assault on Bratosporios will help you financially, this town pulls in tons of cash from sea trade and gets you those nifty Belgic units. You can take the easternmost Belgic town afterwards. The southern army should try to sack Capua, or at least form a new southern line at Bononia and Segesta so that Mediolanium and Patavium can both advance.

4. After you have defeated the initial Sweboz push and limited the Romans, the world is truly your oyster. Just keep an eye on the Lusos. I like to wait until the Time of Soldiers, raise a nifty army of a Merc General and plenty of Neitos and ship them across the Mediterranean to interfere in Hellenistic affairs. Playing both sides of the wars between the Ptollies and the AS from afar is always fun! Not to mention how fun it is to see your brave Gauls charging through the gates of Alexandria and sacking the untold riches it holds. Rabo!

[Blxz]

I wonder, do you really need an army that powerful? You could split that army in half and still be very effective; especially considering that, including the family members, you have 6 units of cavalry. This would definitely increase your options in terms of effective mobility.

Also, are you in a consolidation or expansion phase?

EDIT: On second thoughts, if you were to split the army I would consider bulking it up with the cheapest units you can find. Maybe more slingers could be useful? That army exactly in half with an additional 2 or 3 slingers added to each half would be very effective for this stage of the game. Should allow you to hold against one faction while you pummel the other....or siege creep or whatever your tactic is.

[A_Dane]

exactly what happened to mediolanum? You gave it up, or did the romans actually do something smart? (last time I played as the gauls, it was as the Arverni. I decided to do a little hannibal tactic and went through the alps.. where I somehow ran into a roman army heading the other way. Never seen the AI do that, they usually just exhaust themselves on Masillia.)

[artavazd]

;2053420089']Totally agree with you, who needs shields and armour when you've got your trusty human-sized sword and your brother in arms by your side :>

The ones that could afforded prefered shields and armour :)

[Brennus]

Nice shots, Brennus. What was the Heroic Victory near Bononia? Was that yours?

Nice Aedui empire in Gaul, too. My own Aedui game is less advanced, since after the initial war in 272-270 I chose to leave the defeated Arveni alive in Gergovia, and made peace with them using the Force Diplomacy mod. Since then, they've been attacking the Eleutheroi in southern Gaul, while I've been attacking Eleutheroi in northern Gaul.

It is indeed! That is where I met a full stack Roman army heading North, can't remember the exact details of it but when I had knocked it out of the way the road was open to Roma.

I would love to see some pictures of your game for comparison!


Nice Aedui Empire Brennus. If I were you, I would kick the Sweboz out of the Alps in Rhaetia and take the Celtic town across the Rhine from the Sequanian province. That town actually gives good recruitment options for Gallic factions and gives you a base across the Rhine to hold down the Sweboz from. It looks like the Romans are still strong...did you sack Capua too? That is a must, just lower than Rome on the priority list or else you will be facing full stacks of Triarii and PE which is never fun when you lack ap units. In this order I would:

1. Send some units from the northern army south to recapture Mediolanium and hopefully meet up with the Patavium garrison. Focus on building this army a bit with the "Cisalpine" Gallic units like Botroas and Gaeroas and use this southern army to be the shield against Rome instead of having to run your northern army south all the time. This army can be about 8-9 units strong.

2. A smaller northern army of 10 units or so will be enough to deal with Sweboz, considering you won't need to storm anymore rebel towns that army size should be fine. Send them to take Rhaetia first, then north to take whatever that town is called east of Vesontio. This town will be the rock the Sweboz tide breaks against.

3. After you retrain your northern and southern armies, an assault on Bratosporios will help you financially, this town pulls in tons of cash from sea trade and gets you those nifty Belgic units. You can take the easternmost Belgic town afterwards. The southern army should try to sack Capua, or at least form a new southern line at Bononia and Segesta so that Mediolanium and Patavium can both advance.

4. After you have defeated the initial Sweboz push and limited the Romans, the world is truly your oyster. Just keep an eye on the Lusos. I like to wait until the Time of Soldiers, raise a nifty army of a Merc General and plenty of Neitos and ship them across the Mediterranean to interfere in Hellenistic affairs. Playing both sides of the wars between the Ptollies and the AS from afar is always fun! Not to mention how fun it is to see your brave Gauls charging through the gates of Alexandria and sacking the untold riches it holds. Rabo!

Ambitious, but I like the sound of it! I did not take Capua I am afraid, if I manage to link up with the Patavium garrison and liberate Mediolanum I will try and snake through the Appenines and let the Campanians feel the sharp (archaeology joke here) end of a Gallic broadsword.


Also, are you in a consolidation or expansion phase?

EDIT: On second thoughts, if you were to split the army I would consider bulking it up with the cheapest units you can find. Maybe more slingers could be useful? That army exactly in half with an additional 2 or 3 slingers added to each half would be very effective for this stage of the game. Should allow you to hold against one faction while you pummel the other....or siege creep or whatever your tactic is.

What tactics should I employ with such an army?

Pretty much consolodation phase, trying to rack my economy up as much as possible, want to turn it into a milk cow so I can steam roll over the Sweboz and then deal with the Romans on their side of the Alps rather than mine.


exactly what happened to mediolanum?

I pulled my garrison out to press it into service against the Arverni and Gallic Eleutheroi. I destroyed all the buildings to help my debt situation and hoped the town would rebel, it didn't and so the Romans just occupied it.

I will keep everyone updated with new shots if you like (this is when you get to see Gaul become increasingly brown and red :p)

[Blxz]

What tactics should I employ with such an army?

Pretty much consolodation phase, trying to rack my economy up as much as possible, want to turn it into a milk cow so I can steam roll over the Sweboz and then deal with the Romans on their side of the Alps rather than mine.

You should be able to win battles (on medium I guess) with just a halfstack or so. If split your full stack and add some bulk you would have 2 effective armies. One can be used for garrison duty to hold the sweboz back if they are pressing you. Alternatively you could send them around the alps and attack from multiple sides effectively forcing the romans to also split their forces (or lose towns). The final choice is to abandon the roman front temporarily and just use your stacks to raze some german towns. Your unit choices are terrible in germany so holding the land isn't useful but taking and burning about 5 or 6 towns should slow that border down for a while. That would allow you to then recover anything on the roman front and push them back further.

Its up to you I guess. But if you can win the battles then 2 armies are better than 1.

[Brennus]

You should be able to win battles (on medium I guess) with just a halfstack or so. If split your full stack and add some bulk you would have 2 effective armies. One can be used for garrison duty to hold the sweboz back if they are pressing you. Alternatively you could send them around the alps and attack from multiple sides effectively forcing the romans to also split their forces (or lose towns). The final choice is to abandon the roman front temporarily and just use your stacks to raze some german towns. Your unit choices are terrible in germany so holding the land isn't useful but taking and burning about 5 or 6 towns should slow that border down for a while. That would allow you to then recover anything on the roman front and push them back further.

Its up to you I guess. But if you can win the battles then 2 armies are better than 1.

Currently trying to hack three legions to pieces who have appeared over the Alps. I was going to try and sail an army to Capua and have some fun there but then these full stacks appeared, have routed one, detroyed a second one but need to deal with the thrid before I can put any grand plans into action.

[Kleitos]

I haven't played any barbarian faction as of yet. I like the civilised nations with their heavy armor a lot more. Does any one of you know a nice barbarian faction for a player like me?
well me too, i had bias for the barbarian factions and so played mostly greeks, parthians or the hayasdan - but as allways when playin´a new faction, inspired from all the infos you get when you play this awesome game i make researches for them to be able to enjoy roleplayin more.

the celts (continent celts - in game Aedui, Arverni) at this time are considerd a step before high culture ...so i guess you should try them.

and - it´s just real fun - to have an campaign with so much different units available with so much skill ... great skill and very good stamina. ..for me there is nothing much above this ...since playin these factions i dont look much for armour anymore.

these two qualities beat good an expensive armour in my opinion. ..i always play vh/vh so no need to hesitate about lack of armour - of course hit an run tactics are inevitable at least with the slingers and such in the skirmish phase...

just some hint - use the recruitment viewer and the EB Units list http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/index.php? to plan which units you will definitely use and therefore maybe where to move first.
forget about units with only good stamina when you can have the ones with very good. ..so i guess - owning the belgae provinces therefore is a very good thing - the Belgians just rock!

o.k. teceitos with AP attributes (but "only" good stamina) are very useful and cost effective ...used them largely in my first Arverni campaign ...until i noticed in late campaign that in Cantabria and Asturia (northern spanish Atlantic-coast) are Axefighters available with very good stamina and more skill, the "Clona Tekonac" - also they are available after the time of soldiers reform.
now in my Aedui Campaign i moved quickly after subdue the Arverni to Cantabria ..it takes some time anyway until the level 4 MIC is build.

but i wonder if it only happen to me? : i never got time to unite all of Gaul in early game like Brennus did - after destroying the rival Gaul faction - i was quickly at war with the Romaioi (even when i abstained from taking Massalia) ...so i had to concentrate to conquer them ..in the end (since the Romaioi never give up) it was necessary to take all off italy ...then in both campaigns the Sweboz attacked me to - so same thing.. the culture diversity is not so big - so pacifying the population is easier as with Rome.
my expansion always lead me into the east in early or midgame. ..uniting the rest of Gaul was only possible for me after that in a consolidation phase when not at war with any Faction.

[The Stranger]

you play VH/VH that makes a big difference undoubtly.

[Kleitos]

...well i dont mind to micromanage battles, in fact i enjoy it - so in my opinion vh battles are not to be afraid of. ..except until i tried the celts the first time - thought maybe vh battles with their lack of armour could be not so fun - but they are. ..as long as not in dense forrests.

the vh on campaigns i use to hopefully encounter some unexpected naval invasion or getting besieged from Rebels (as stated from some members somewhere) - but until now it never happened...

or do you mean that the Romans will not attack a celtic faction so soon when using e.g. medium campaign level instead?

[The Stranger]

well most ppl play VH/M, You play VH/VH. the campaign AI is equal, only it is easier to defeat bigger stacks on M battle difficulty. in time this will accumulate and speed up their conquest while you have to struggle more and will have less men after a battle to do the conquering.

if you have 2000 vs 2000 on m battle i can win it with 1800 men left and kill atleast 1900 enemies if i have fast cav chasing the routers. on VH battle difficulty i think it will be much harder, and if i have a 1000 left i will have to wait, retrain my army etc and this will take more time.

[Kleitos]

guess i still use the smallest army size?. dont know the game intern name for it - but use the army size where 60 (or 62) men form one
Phalanx or one unit of Pantodapoi or Lugoae and such. Milnaht and Hoplitai about 40.

in percentages - my loss in battles range from about 8% until 25% where the latter only happens with real strong adversaries i.e. very good Generals and, or or very good troop compositions - happens more likely when fighting against the Romaioi. - i find they remain the toughest nut to break.
killing rate is much like you described - but also often 100% if i have enough Cavalry... i know thats cruel ;-) - but else i have to fight them again.
so actually i can live with the losses - and can care for replenishment.

another thing which i like with the celtic factions: with those skilled swordfighters its also fun to attack and defend stone walls.
thats what i found annoying for instance with the Koinon Hellenon units - even the Spartiatai just suck on walls. whereas Milnaht or the like just hack their way through.

[The Stranger]

what size you on doesnt really matter, i just gave a number that is common in most stack vs stack battles. its like 10-15 units each.

what i mean to say is that when you play on lower difficulty for battle you are most likely going to lose less men and so in time this men you havent lost will accumulate and give you an army which you can use to conquer more places and the process continues. but i just played a few battles on VH and its not that more difficult, so I dont know :P

[The Stranger]

how do you effictively use british chariots? i mean fighting in barbarian cities is hell even with tight infantry formations.. but these chariots just cant be controlled :S atleast i dont know how...

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

The key is to charge -through-; not into. As long as the chariot stays moving, it will stay to be deadly.

Think of it this way: a bunch of psychotic drivers in bling adorned Ferraris and Lamborghinis with gun mounts plowing into masses of less wealthy (and jealous) people. They can wreak havoc and sow panic as long as they step on the gas. The moment they stop moving, the masses will gang up on them, flip the car over or drag the poor driver out and kill him...

[team_kramnik]

So like a zombie movie basically?

[Frtigern]

I use chariots to flank and hammer and anvil (charge repeatedly) into their backsides. Or chase down skirmishers, slingers, archers, and light cavalry. They will make skirmishing cavalry run off but I don't give chase. if there are heavy cavalry around I skirmish with them with my chariots and usually the heavies will give chase but will get tired and be very vulnerable to a spearmen unit hiding while I draw them to them. I tend to control my chariots if they are on heavy cavalry ambush duty, meaning I disable skirmish mode and put them in guard and manually move them to my desired place (right next to a hidden spearmen unit). Do not charge a general chariot unit into an army composed mainly of skirmishers. Those masses of javelins will ruin your chariot's day. Also masses of slingers are to be avoided if their number of units outnumber your chariots considerably. But they do wreck havoc upon the rear of infantry that are tied up in melee with you infantry. With enough chariots hammer and anvil-ing enemy lines, they don't stick around long. For me they are more important to me in the second half of a battle where I am in the process of enveloping the enemy with infantry and enemy cavalry and missile units are taken care of. The first half of the battle they just sit on the flanks frightening the enemy.

[The Stranger]

The key is to charge -through-; not into. As long as the chariot stays moving, it will stay to be deadly.

Think of it this way: a bunch of psychotic drivers in bling adorned Ferraris and Lamborghinis with gun mounts plowing into masses of less wealthy (and jealous) people. They can wreak havoc and sow panic as long as they step on the gas. The moment they stop moving, the masses will gang up on them, flip the car over or drag the poor driver out and kill him...

well its impossible on VH battle difficulty :S i tried but they just get owned..

even on normal vs lugoae they lose... they just get stuck and wont move. and the charge doesnt even kill a single unit unlike a heavy cav charge which easily kills 40 on initial impact :S

and if i then click to move through the unit they immdiatly rout... i dont understand these units -_-


hmm they totally butcher cavalry tho :P

[The Celtic Viking]

well its impossible on VH battle difficulty :S i tried but they just get owned..

even on normal vs lugoae they lose... they just get stuck and wont move. and the charge doesnt even kill a single unit unlike a heavy cav charge which easily kills 40 on initial impact :S

and if i then click to move through the unit they immdiatly rout... i dont understand these units -_-


hmm they totally butcher cavalry tho :P

Yeah, their charge doesn't kill much, it's true, but if you can keep them moving they'll do wonders at routing the enemy. Make sure you don't click to charge the nearest unit, click to charge the unit furthest away, so that they have to run through enemy units first. Use your right mouse button as a whip to remind them of their orders, and make sure that before they hit the last unit you just double-click on the ground beyond it. That's the best way to ensure they don't get stuck, though it can still happen.

[Vilkku92]

Chariots get even more effective if you can gharge your infantry or cavalry into the enemy units right after the chariots have ran trough them. With the enemy's formation disrupted and morale weakened you are bound to do heavy damage amongst them.

[PetiteWolf]

I primarily use chariots to A) frighten the enemy B) murder enemy cavalry stupid enough to get mixed up with my Chariots and C) hit engaged infantry from behind. I play on Hard battle difficulty - considering bumping it up to VH - And I find that if I use my chariots correctly I win battles that by all rights I should have lost. Their charge in to the back of an engaged enemy unit is great for damaging morale. Just make sure to never let them stay still, as they'll start dropping like flies.

edit: and as someone else mentioned, Chariots break up enemy formations amazingly well, which in turn helps your own infantry gain an advantage.

[seleucid empire]

one charge with chariots is enough to rout an army. take ur starting casse army of 4 units of infantry and ur faction leader and go to the nearest town to besiege it. they will sally out with about 12 units of elites and semi elites. simply, line up your infatyr in front of gate and when they charge ur weak line, send ur chariot in. make sure it keeps moving and after 2 seconds most of the rebel units are routing. in VH i suspect chariots wont work as well (or at all) because they get a lot more morale, and so are harder to break and thats the real point of the chariots. they dont kill much but they can rout an army instantly

[PetiteWolf]

And that is why they are so useful, SE :). They help to win battles that you shouldn't be able to win, simply because of the damage to morale they do.

[Brennus]

Celtic chariots are probably one of the most discussed issues on this forum. A favourite unit of mine I might add.

[Nightmare]

there's no way celtic chariots will ever do anything on my game except just die. even if i just instantly retreat them from battle (which is what i do now) they just die. for instance the last time i did it he was retreating as the battle started, then all of a sudden the wheels fly off the chariot, the general hurls headlong into the air with the camera zooming in on him, and i'm like "what happened?!?! did he hit a rock? was there some random arrow that got him? some hidden enemy ninja with a javelin?" i mean they just suck utter and complete fill-in-the-blank.

they can't even charge into the backs of defeated enemies without instantaneously routing and dying. sometimes i wonder if people aren't playing a comletely other game than me, or we are all in the twilight zone.

actually, sometimes i have strong suspicions that the game plays severely differently on different people's systems. the stranger and i have confirmed that his cost efficiency unit tests play out differently than mine. his koinon hellenon campaigns act ridiculously different than mine do. people talk about how awesome celtic chariots are but i can't keep them from dying even if all i do is retreat them upon start of battle. i have wondered if unit sizes has anything to do with these different outcomes, because it seems most people play on huge settings, and i always play on normal.

[Nachtmeister]

I play on huge settings and at first, I was really disappointed with the Cidainh, but now, after several re-starts of the Casse campaign to see which moves are the best for opening it, I have gotten used to using them correctly. Sometimes, especially in siege battles, you have to resort to maniac-clicking a far-away corner of the city to keep them moving. They still take casualties, so it is usually best to only move them into the city after all infantry units are engaged and moving them in is a move to speed up enemy routing, not a last-ditch attempt to reinforce your own troops.
In field battles, they are total steamrollers, also in siege battles where the enemy sallies.
In the latter case, I have found that chariots can cause a lot of enemy casualties, quite contrary to what other people have been saying here - or at least they make infantry get more kills out of the enemy unit they are fighting but I really think it was the chariots making those numerous kills going by the battle results scroll (and the infantry unit in question here was a unit of britons shortswordsmen fighting belgian spears, so they should normally have gotten obliterated in no time). I didn't have the chariots attacking most of the time - just auto-firing and moving around behind the enemy unit, just skirting their rear ranks. Somehow, the result was a bit as though they had skythes on the wheels; the rear enemy lines were more or less getting mowed down and occasionally one or two chariots would break out of the formation and plunge into the enemy unit and come out at the flank... After three passes behind the enemy army in this manner, they chain-routed.
Even balroae, who should be *the* counter-chariot unit, routed in one field battle in light woods when I just ran my chariots through their loose formation and they had lost about a quarter of their men (something like 30) from that one pass after my slingers had slightly reduced their numbers as they were still closing to javelin range.
So, regarding chariots I must say, they are extremely powerful on my computer, and it gets even more so with some experience - my faction leader routed and slaughtered a unit of drwdae in a siege battle today... Alone. With hardly any previous casualties from slingers etc on the not even exhausted drwdae unit and with few if any casualties on my cidainh. I was just clicking into the opposite city corner to get them the hell out of there and then I noticed the druids were falling but not killing my unit and then they routed... It seems that both the javelin throwing and the splash damage attack do not require the chariots to be explicitly "attacking" or "fighting" the opposing unit in terms of "alt-clicking" on them. They also kill them when you send them somewhere else but they are still in contact.

Oh and on the original topic about which factions are fun etc - I didn't think I would ever say this in the past, but Casse are awesome great fun.
You just have to do the right opening moves:

Recruit a unit of gaeroas and send all except for the FM who is neither king nor heir to Bratosporios with the fleet, take the settlement, then disband what you can to get out of dept and build the pre-government and a coastal clearing to get the ridiculously lucrative dover-calais trade route going. A occasionally, for a few turns the Eleutheroi fleets will disrupt it but most of the time they will leave your ports alone and from there, you will have no financial recruitment or building problems at all for the rest of the campaign, just make sure that you don't deplete any cities and if you do - hey just hire mercenaries and disband them in the cities to replenish or even boost population, you have to put all that cash somewhere...
Really, it's just sit and push end-turn and occasionally conquer a settlement when you feel like it from there.
The other gauls will completely leave you alone and honour their alliance with you and you can even take the other Belgae settlement (Bagacos, I think) and the Sweboz will take ages to even get all the border territories between you and them, giving you the options to
- kill off their full stack before they conquer anything
- buy their full stack as soon as they leave it without a FM for a turn (yes, you get that rich)
- let them grow for a future challenge.
You can also take other Eleutheroi settlements that should be on the Aedui or Arverni hit list and they won't do anything about it for a long time...
The only annoying thing is that the romans eventually make the Aedui a protectorate and thus cause peace between them and the Arverni and more or less halt any changes to the political landscape in Gaul.
Do be mindful to keep your starting fleet safe in ports at ends of turns though as it is your only means of transport for quite a while. Just taking Darioritum or Ictis will not instantly give you recruitment options for ships and if you want ships that will stand a chance against the pirates, you need (in turns for construction): 4 (town upgrade), 2 (clearing), 1 (pre government), Darioritum 6 or Ictis 10 (proper government), 4 (trade port), 4 (military port), 6 (bigger military port), and maybe another 6 for a blacksmith, makes an absolute minimum of 16 for the minimum port with a type 4 government (which I think is stupid if your faction is building its novel fleets there and on a level 1 port you can only build the flimsy skin boats that can't fight at all) or 31 for a type 1 government in Ictis with proper warships, plus 6 (makes 37) for this with a blacksmith... But at least 16 turns AFTER you take Ictis for flimsy skin boats that die from pirate attacks just to move units back and forth, IF you lose your starting fleet. So don't lose it and bear the upkeep, is my suggestion.

Also, Casse family members get wicked good traits for governing cities and if you take Ynys-Mon, you get a much more potent "Agoge" that gives your FMs druidic traits, influence, management and command boosts AND high-level super ancillaries like the "geographer", even on sharp/charismatic/vigorous FMs.
They are just not as decadent and wasted as the mainlanders. ^^

The only thing that can spoil a Casse game is expanding too fast because it destroys the feeling of heroic conquest and turns the campaign into a subject-processing, uh, process.

Oh and you get to keep the chariots after the reforms it seems. And if you don't rush the other gauls, you can later recruit Brihentin from their lvl5 MICs when you finally do conquer them. And you can also build temples to Andraste. Wicked. :skull:

[seleucid empire]

yeh nightmare has been complaining about chariots since he joined the forum. as petite wolf said, they win battles you shouldnt be able to win and allow you to conquer all of britain with your tiny starting army. I believe the best way to play casse (im talking about quickest way to build a powerful empire. not roleplaying) is to blitz all of britain using that starting army. Some people decide to send their forces to mainland europe because the rebel cities there are easier to take (british cities are full of fullstacks of elites) but with chariots, you can take britain in like 5-7 years anyway

[The Stranger]

i have no doubt they can be good. i just have no clue how to use them.

[The Stranger]

one charge with chariots is enough to rout an army. take ur starting casse army of 4 units of infantry and ur faction leader and go to the nearest town to besiege it. they will sally out with about 12 units of elites and semi elites. simply, line up your infatyr in front of gate and when they charge ur weak line, send ur chariot in. make sure it keeps moving and after 2 seconds most of the rebel units are routing. in VH i suspect chariots wont work as well (or at all) because they get a lot more morale, and so are harder to break and thats the real point of the chariots. they dont kill much but they can rout an army instantly

this must be on medium because i tried it on vh and my army just died...


they do totally massacre cavalry tho... perhaps i should just use them as such but it makes them quite limited :S


i guess i just prefer heavy cavalry or better yet armored horse archers... those saka/sarmatian/pahlava bodyguards can steamroll empires

[athanaric]

this must be on medium because i tried it on vh and my army just died...


they do totally massacre cavalry tho... perhaps i should just use them as such but it makes them quite limited :S
Well obviously the game was balanced for Medium battles (as stated in the FAQ), so anyone playing on H or VH is doing so at their own risk. Those settings reward missile spam while rendering historically accurate compositions ineffective.

That said, I've even had success with these guys when playing Aedui and Arverni (they're hard to get for those factions because they are rendered unavailable by the first reform, which tends to occur early on). I've won a battle outside Gergovia where I was badly outnumbered, had one unit of Gaesatae (the Aedui had four), some Gallic and Greek slingers, archers, and spearmen, an FM who wasn't in charge, a unit of Leuce Epos and one of Cidainh. The enemy had a full stack comprised mostly of Gaesatae, Gaedann, Gaeroas, and Botroas. I was on low ground and the Aedui were deployed in one of those retarded Californian Redwood forests. My chariots managed to rout all enemy Gaesatae units and massacred the Aedui faction heir.

[The Stranger]

my chariots just get stuck even if i tell them to keep moving...-_-

too bad.

[Intranetusa]

I'm surprised that people are saying Spain is hard to play and doesn't have good elites. I thought they had the heaviest elites of any barbarian faction and on average the heaviest rank and file troops? They also have heavy cavalry lancers.

The Lusotannans have Ambakaro, Loricati Scutari, and Dunaminica - all elite infantry with heavy armor and I think all or 2 of them have AP weaponry. And they have the Dosidataskeli (or did the EB v1.2 remove them), the heaviest heavy infantry in the game with the best armor except with the exception of the Seleucid version of heavily armored Elite Spearmen.

[The Stranger]

the dosidataskeli are better than the seleukid version in all aspects. but ye they were taken out in 1.2

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

The only thing that can spoil a Casse game is expanding too fast because it destroys the feeling of heroic conquest and turns the campaign into a subject-processing, uh, process.


Nice description of your Casse campaign, Nachtmeister! Thanks for posting it.

I'm definitely not spoiling my latest Casse campaign with blitzing expansion! In this game, it's 246 BC, and I've conquered no provinces and fought no battles! I'm making money by staying at peace with the Eleutheroi. It's an M/M campaign, so they're not aggressive, they haven't attacked me. I've been able to build up Camulosadae into a major city of over 13,000 citizens. My army is two swordsmen, one spearman, one slinger, and six FM's. Enough to deter the two small rebel armies from attacking me. It's lovely and peaceful here in Britannia.... I don't mind if it takes Casse 50 years to conquer one province, there seems no reason to hurry. The Romans are far away in Massilia and the Sweboz haven't yet conquered any of the three towns between them and the Belgae.

It's been a great campaign, where I've played EB without sitting at the computer. All I do is construct buildings, move my diplomat, and click end turn, then I can do my ironing while the PC runs through the AI factions.

[athanaric]

my chariots just get stuck even if i tell them to keep moving...-_-

too bad.
Yeah that's quite normal. Using them properly is difficult and depends on experience as well as preference (either you like this kind of unit or you don't).



The Lusotannans have Ambakaro, Loricati Scutari, and Dunaminica - all elite infantry with heavy armor and I think all or 2 of them have AP weaponry. And they have the Dosidataskeli (or did the EB v1.2 remove them), the heaviest heavy infantry in the game with the best armor except with the exception of the Seleucid version of heavily armored Elite Spearmen.
Dunaminica use the gladius hispaniensis - which is basically the point of this unit (you gotta represent the original inventors of this weapon type. Of course, there's other good reasons for their inclusion). Their javelins are indeed AP, though. And they have three of them.
You have to remember though that the "proper Iberian" units (including vital units such as lancers) are counted as auxiliaries, which requires the Lusitanians to construct an additional set of MICs to access them, consuming time and money.

[Frtigern]

The only thing that can spoil a Casse game is expanding too fast because it destroys the feeling of heroic conquest and turns the campaign into a subject-processing, uh, process.


I prefer to expand quick with the Casse. No sense in letting all the rebels have it easy, and I want their units in my armies! Building alone is boring to me. I am the conquer and build type. You can easily conquer the Isles by 250 and then go take the two rebel Belgae towns. It just becomes a matter of keeping the Sweboz at bay and that's where I play defensive ambush. They intrude and are ambushed by chariots and belgae swordsmen. Love it! In my Casse campaign I am focusing on taking all coastal towns from Bagacos to Burdigala as well as Tolosa. Now I've got Romans and Lusotanans in play against me With the Arverni and Sweboz in suit. So it's been very fun and challenging fighting all four at once! I will go for Gawjam-Skandzwarjoz and Gawjam-Gotanoz just for the hell of it and it fits my goal of being the sole naval power of the game! I am limiting myself to conquering only coastal towns, thus reaping the trade for me and denying it for them.

[seleucid empire]

this must be on medium because i tried it on vh and my army just died...


they do totally massacre cavalry tho... perhaps i should just use them as such but it makes them quite limited :S


i guess i just prefer heavy cavalry or better yet armored horse archers... those saka/sarmatian/pahlava bodyguards can steamroll empires

yeh i dont play VH battles on EB. i use to on vanilla but on EB ur looking at 1 hr battles and combined with VH campaign its gonna take you so many hrs of playing just to get to victory conditions

[The Stranger]

i like them, atleast i cannot just steamroll everything with a few horse archers, tho it can be frustrating at times definitly when facing enemy missile troops because thats where it really goes bad... my archers do like 1/10 the damage their archers do :S luckily i outmass their archers so its usually fine but fighting on the steppes is hard!

[Vilkku92]

It's strange how there have been so little talk about Swebos. Can't see why, since they are pretty much the most "barbarian" of all the barbarian factions in the game: heavy hitting close combat and ambush specialists with little to no armour and underdeveloped infrastructure. They are - along with the Arverni and Koinon Hellenon - one of those factions I seem to be especially fond of. They are the only faction with wich I have had the nerve to play until 190 BC - and that was with my old computer wich was so slow I could practically make coffee while the start screen was loading. I in fact did that a couple of times. Tells something.

What can I say about them? First of all, they are tougher than they look like. When you look at their stats they seem so weak, with low armour and only medium sized shields, while being armed most of the time with not-the-most-offensive weapons such as spears, and javelins with high damage but short range. Still they are able to beat the living daylights out of most of the troops they will face in western europe, including Romans if you know how to use them correctly. They are tough even in AI's hands: in my current Casse campaing they have given the toughest fights of all the barbarian factions I've faced, and aren't too far behind the Romani.

Darn they are fun to play...

[PetiteWolf]

It's strange how there have been so little talk about Swebos. I haven't been playing EB all that long, honestly. The Sweboz are one of the factions I plan on playing, but right now I'm loving my Casse campaign. Its 258 BC and I just conquered Attuaca a turn or two ago. But yeah, I have a fondness for barbarian factions. Sweboz or Getai - or both at once - are who I'm going to try next I think.

[The Stranger]

i like the hellenic factions more i think (except ptolemaioi and makedon for some reason...) and i do like the steppe factions but their campaigns are quite boring

[moonburn]

sweaboz have that special batle philosophy wich i have mixed feelings about

the upclose and personal kind of batle if they get near you enough they are like lions stalking a prey 30 centimeters closer and you´re toast only way to deal with them is lead bullets beteween the eyes so slingers are a must \o and thus the reason why it´s important to keep your distance

the one unit i like the least are the clubmen :\ i don´t know if it´s the crazy gay shirts their alchool abuse or their crazy attempts to get girls druged but i tend to deslike the club dudes

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

I love the clubmen. Them boyz hit yer wen youz not lookin', den dey hitz youz 'ard wen youz are! Waaagh!!! (AP helps.) :clown:

[Vilkku92]

I personally think the clubmen are little overrated. They have wide spacing and low defense and attack, so they usually get killed very quickly against most enemies without doing that much damage. People have been reportedly been talking about them "eating" armoured enemies, but I usually have them lose almost as much men as they kill, and that is counting the chase. They come dirt cheap though, and the Swebos are usually quite low in cash, so it increases their usefulness. They are also very good in semi-forested maps, where they can ambush the enemy from behind - deadly especially if you have hired some of those wolf mercenaries. Still, they are overrated, and I prefer to use the Baltic axemen when I have a chance.

Missiles are the Sweboses nemesis and Achilles's heel, but can be countered with screen of Jugundziz and/or fast advance. This makes it harder to use ambush tactics though, so when facing missile troops you have to choose between two not-that-good options: Quick head-on assault and casualties while slugging it out, or staying put and casualties while being fired upon by slingers/archers/both. Ah well, you can't have everything.:shrug:

[Ca Putt]

crazy gay shirts? they don't wear shirts :D tho that could be the point aswell^^

Personally I preffer their local youngster variant. Cheap, die like flies but deal with those Evil tin cans, plus they seem wilder, may be the haircut may be the laughably small shield and as Sweboz temples boost groth rather than law the AOR is not a biggie.
The Baltic axemen ARE better but where you can train them few people have heard of armor at all :/

Arrows are the Arch nemesis of all Sweboz armies. However don't fear to engage the enemy head on, Dugunthiz and their local variants all have a good charge bonus and are good line holders. As soon as they are in running distance a head on charge is not that bad an idea, provided the enemy does not field phalangites and you can quickly deploy your clubmen to ... well kill them^^.

[moonburn]

some people seem to phail miserably on the joke part about club dudes :\ go watch vice city the show from the 80´s to understand what i mean about clubmen (dudes who attend the clubs not dudes who use clubs)

[Ca Putt]

sorry, but that's none of the things I have knowledge of. Make a Monty Python quote and I'll respond with the something from exactly that sketch.

[moonburn]

i meant miami vice i made a mistake XD but still club men are wierdos :|

[seleucid empire]

i like the hellenic factions more i think (except ptolemaioi and makedon for some reason...) and i do like the steppe factions but their campaigns are quite boring

i dont like ptolemaioi either. for some reason i find them the hardest hellenistic faction to play on H/M. even though it has the easiest difficulty rating of all the greek factions, i seem to run into a slogfest with grey death and carthage. it also might be due to the fact that there are so many rebel stacks in egypt which you have to fight off before consolidating your kingdom, namely the rebel general from kyrene and he other one from ethiopia which in all of my games surprise me at around 260 BC by attacking nubia. On M/M though the ptolemaioi are really easy

[d'Arthez]

Ptollies are just a bit too boring campaign wise. AS has Pontos, Hayasdan, Pahlava, Baktria and possibly Saka to contend from the get go with in addition to the Ptollies. The Ptollies only have AS and possibly Pontos, if they do surprisingly well. By the time you face someone else, you should have your act together, and ripped the guts out of the Arche.

For the same reason campaigns with Casse and Sweboz hardly interest me. They are just too far removed from other factions for my liking.

[FinnishedBarbarian]

Sweboz aren't that removed it's just that that their initial neighbors (Aedui/Arverni) never seem to get their act together to resist their onslaught, their most dangerous foe romani gets wiped out by Carthage or Lusos and then only opposition comes from whoever controls the balkans (usually Epeiros or Maks after they steamroll Getai).

Sweboz probably have the easiest victory conditions of all factions and only true challenge for them is those boii überstacks.

Casse benefit too much from their starting position (don't know about BI and alex if gauls and others stage naval invasions) and by the time the isles are subdued gauls have fought each other to standstill making them easy pickings.

If there weren't limited amount of slots, rival to them (goidilis maybe) would certainly make their campaign far more intresting.

Actully geographic wise the saka have most remote starting position off all yet no one ever broughts this up (and yes I know that to them that distance ain't a big deal).

Greatest thing about "barbarian" factions is that they have much diversity in factional ethnicities which allows great roleplaying possibilities for example you can form chatti army (consisting mostly of chatti dugundiz/jugundiz) with chatti fm and go plundering gaul and if he achieves great victories you can roleplay those as chatti tribe gaining influence in the suebic conferation and who knows maybe if he's elected druhtinaz there won't be suebic confederation anymore but chatti confederation.

To me for example Makedonia doesn't offer much interest in it's fm ethnicities you have royalty, eastern comebacks, sheep herders, hellenes etc. point being that of those peoples the only royalty made faction spanning decisions all the others being mostly subjects to Antigonid family.

[Nachtmeister]

For the same reason campaigns with Casse and Sweboz hardly interest me. They are just too far removed from other factions for my liking.

It really depends on how you play the campaign.

Example:
In my current Casse campaign, I have taken the Belgian settlements and modern Normandy as well as the lands of the Pictones but honoured my alliance with the Aedui and Arverni.
Now I am helping them against the Romans.
So I marched a 3/4 stack of different spearmen, axemen and swordsmen with a general and a unit of light skirmisher cavalry to "Gallia Cisalpina" and taken Segesta, Patavium and Bononia and am holding off the Romans while developing the military infrastructure to play those settlements into the hands of the Aedui or Arverni, depending on how their internal war goes. The challenge is that I have an extremely long distance from any reinforcements and have to simultaneously fight a war against the Sweboz in Belgium before they get too powerful to contain, while I build up the military infrastructure in northern Italy.
Of course, the Aedui and Arverni are not helping me a great deal because they are now busy infighting.

Also, I have not conquered all of Britain as that would have been too easy; I have only taken the homeland settlements and Cairn-Brigantae.

[seleucid empire]

Ptollies are just a bit too boring campaign wise. AS has Pontos, Hayasdan, Pahlava, Baktria and possibly Saka to contend from the get go with in addition to the Ptollies. The Ptollies only have AS and possibly Pontos, if they do surprisingly well. By the time you face someone else, you should have your act together, and ripped the guts out of the Arche.


i find potlies much harder than arche and their lands lack mines

[d'Arthez]

Sweboz aren't that removed it's just that that their initial neighbors (Aedui/Arverni) never seem to get their act together to resist their onslaught, their most dangerous foe romani gets wiped out by Carthage or Lusos and then only opposition comes from whoever controls the balkans (usually Epeiros or Maks after they steamroll Getai).

How often do you see Aedui or Arverni moving beyond Belgica, to Gawjam-Heruskoz, or one of the other two settlements (forgot the names) in current day northwest Germany? Not that often in my games. Hence you can turtle along, ascertain your economy is rock solid before you have to face either the rain of arrows on the steppe or one of the Gallic factions.

Once you have an empire of 10-15 provinces you can hardly lose unless you have completely depopulated your cities (which is a possibility for the Sweboz on huge units). Most of your initial conquest will never be border areas with other AI factions, unless you really turtle along or battle AI on steroids.

It makes little roleplaying sense to rush Gaul with the Sweboz, but turtling along does make sense.

Casse over a bit more flexibility as Nachtmeister points out. There is the Belgian option, honouring the alliance with the Gauls, and potentially an early invasion of Iberia. There is little role playing reason to invade Germany as it has limited wealth unlike Iberia.

With the Saka you are immediately up against the Seleukids, and either Baktria or Pahlava. Distances may be big between provinces, but you can't rest on your laurels for too long with them.

What the game is really missing is factional rebellions and the like, or a persistently hostile Eleutheroi faction (it makes no sense to me that you can lightly garrison border towns as if your Eleutheroi neighbours might not be tempted?). That sadly is not possible with the RTW engine, and would definitely spice up those factions for me.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

What the game is really missing is factional rebellions and the like, or a persistently hostile Eleutheroi faction (it makes no sense to me that you can lightly garrison border towns as if your Eleutheroi neighbours might not be tempted?). That sadly is not possible with the RTW engine, and would definitely spice up those factions for me.

Agreed.

However, something else that is missing with the RTW engine is the Eleutheroi provinces not fighting each other as well as the bigger factions, which many of them would have been doing in reality. One roleplaying reason that a strong Eleutheroi garrison doesn't invade your weakly-garrisoned border town might be that it is worried about being invaded itself by someone else the other side of it.

Something I do in my campaigns is weaken strong Eleutheroi garrisons on my borders by attacking them with a weaker force so that they sally out immediately when I end the turn. But I don't take the town, I withdraw after inflicting heavy losses (or I get defeated.) An Eleutheroi town that's fought one costly battle already won't be in a hurry to fight another for a while, even if it won the battle.

[moonburn]

herm technically regions in eb wheren´t fighting each other they where normally fighting each other inside that same province with some exceptions

a region normally had an x amount of diferent tribes and clans in it for instance the arevaci where just 1 or 7 celtiberian tribes in the region that as numantia as a capital

probably one of the rare exceptions are the gauls wich where all allied and entangled diplomatically with one another picking sides on the ongoing wars and proxy wars for influence inside the greater keltika wich was being made by the arverni and the aedui while the eastern kelts where united trying to hold their ground against the counter attack that all the other people where making against them for previous crimes comited

[ViriathusTheDestroyer]

I'm surprised that people are saying Spain is hard to play and doesn't have good elites. I thought they had the heaviest elites of any barbarian faction and on average the heaviest rank and file troops? They also have heavy cavalry lancers.

The Lusotannans have Ambakaro, Loricati Scutari, and Dunaminica - all elite infantry with heavy armor and I think all or 2 of them have AP weaponry. And they have the Dosidataskeli (or did the EB v1.2 remove them), the heaviest heavy infantry in the game with the best armor except with the exception of the Seleucid version of heavily armored Elite Spearmen.


I've been using them on very hard/medium and their very effective, It's just I don't think most people know how to use them right.

Basically almost all of your (early) troops are skirmisher/infantry hybrids which means using them for just one role won't be the most effective. I place my like infantry in front (fire at will on), and then have my dedicated skirmishers in back throwing there jav as the enemy approaches once there out of javelins I use them as surprisingly effective reserve infantry.Slingers too are really useful for attacking towns as the AI is so dumb they just stand their while they get pounded by lead or and rocks.

The general cav are pretty bad for head on attacks , but there useful for skirmishing and be used to distract enemy units by having them chase after you.

[Brennus]

Love the Casse advice Nachtmeister! I will try it our when I get a chance and play the game as if I am the Atrebates/Bellovaci.... wait a minute, considering how much I chat about the Belgae in the EBII forum why didn't I think of this earlier?