View Full Version : Deus Ex
I just played Deus Ex again, and I just gotta say "DARN!"
Every time I play that game I am amazed all over again. It never seems to lose its wonder. You could teach a college course with a game like that.
Why don't they make games like that anymore? It was commercially successful, and has one of the most devoted fanbases imaginable!
Voigtkampf
03-03-2012, 22:24
They do make games like that still. Check out the one called Deus Ex: Human Revolution. :yes:
They do make games like that still. Check out the one called Deus Ex: Human Revolution. :yes:
Sorry bro, but there is no comparison between the two. HR is as much DX as Skyrim.
Did you play HR or are you just assuming that because it's new? Once you got to wander around Detroit it felt exactly like Deus Ex to me.
Did you play HR or are you just assuming that because it's new? Once you got to wander around Detroit it felt exactly like Deus Ex to me.
Yes, I did play it, and no, it was nothing like DX. I love the assumption that I am closed-minded and wouldn't like a game just because it is new. EM loves to say that to make an excuse for letting their fans down.
Kekvit Irae
03-04-2012, 01:06
Deus Ex Machina
https://i42.tinypic.com/2eg8cci.jpg
Sorry bro, but there is no comparison between the two. HR is as much DX as Skyrim.
Yes, I did play it, and no, it was nothing like DX. I love the assumption that I am closed-minded and wouldn't like a game just because it is new. EM loves to say that to make an excuse for letting their fans down.
I'm not sure what game you played in all honesty.
Deus Ex Machina
https://i.imgur.com/pgWl4.png
Yes, I did play it, and no, it was nothing like DX. I love the assumption that I am closed-minded and wouldn't like a game just because it is new. EM loves to say that to make an excuse for letting their fans down.
I didn't assume anything, that's why I asked the question.
I don't know what "EM" is.
I'm not sure what game you played in all honesty.
This.
Voigtkampf
03-04-2012, 10:12
I assumed he was talking about the first Deus Ex (which is simply called Deus Ex, and there was an exp called Invisible War few years later, IIRC), not Deus Ex Machina, the Greek theatrical concept.
EM is probably Eidos Montreal, the Canada studio that developed Deus Ex: Human Revolution.
Human Revolution's end was disappointing in it's lack of solid consequences, but then it's what is to be expected from a prequel to a game that came out more than a decade ago.
Aside from that I found the game itself a lot of fun. The gameplay was pretty solid whether you went in stealth or guns blazing or a mixture of both.
The only real complain most people had were the boss fights but then we know the reason for those.
I'll tell you why I didn't like HR.
1) It was fantasy. It felt like fantasy. Never at one time in that game did it feel like I was in the real world or talking to real people I may meet on the streets. In DX, you felt like your world was in utter chaos and turmoil. In this, you feel like you are on a different planet, and so it loses a lot of its gravity. Also, the world is not just so foreign, but so unlikely and bizarre (even the way people dress) that you have a hard time imagining that it could exist on another planet.
2) It lacked all subtlety. If they want to portray something, they put it in massive red letters and smash it into your face. The real world is not like that. DX was not like that. Often times DX never told you who was right and who was wrong, and fans would argue about that later. It was not narrated to the player. HR assumes that you have the intellect of a 2 year old though.
3) It lacked all realism. DX was about a probably reality, and kept its world, its people, its style, its weapons, etc. as realistic as possible. Even the fantastical elements such as augs they tried to explain in a realistic and plausible way (and did a really good job too). HR was absurd in its characters, absurd in its style, absurd in its weapons, etc etc. No real attempt was made at realism, and everything was fantastical and exaggerated. (even the human proportions on many bad guys) Fantasy is one thing, but it has to be plausible fantasy. HR (which considering the dates in which the story takes place, should have been even more tied to reality) is not plausible at all.
4) The texts and conversations in the game were naive and stupid. Everything from the blinding you with the obvious conversations to the weapon mod descriptions which demonstrated an incredible lack of scientific knowledge. DX was full of philosophical enlightening and technologically plausible conversations and texts. You could learn a lot just by playing the game. HR was just a big, stupid, popular political message excused as a game. No intelligence went into its design, and you could end up stupider for playing it instead of smarter.
5) It did not fit the DX universe at all. Not only was the style and architecture absurdly implausible for something that soon before DX (funny you never see ruins of buildings like those in DX, and that robot and mech tech only got worse), but the storyline did not fit at all. If you are making something that does not feel or look like DX AT ALL, and that does not fit its storyline, what right do you have to call it DX? It was a new game, and they needed to do their own thing. I get that. There was plenty they could have done, however, that was in the framework of what was describe in DX as happening in that time-frame and that did not contradict the DX storyline or make it seem implausible. It just wasn't part of DX. They should have named it something different and just marketed it was their own game. Heck, they could have even said it was inspired by DX if they wanted to and left it relatively unchanged!
6) I could go on and on, but to be quite honest, the game is simply not worth be devoting this much time to. It is not a game in the spirit of DX. Lots of good games have had good sequels that I have enjoyed. They were new. They were not carbon copies of the old games, but they also did not throw the old games out the window, nor were they geared toward the lowest common denominator in society. HR was a prequel that was not worthy of the DX series (the DX series being, IMHO, DX. HR and IW don't even count, because the both were garbage).
Didn't like HR either, oddly enough I did like Invisable War. HR just didn't was so mysterious, better than most games but not as good as the first two
Didn't like HR either, oddly enough I did like Invisible War. HR just didn't was so mysterious, better than most games but not as good as the first two
I will admit, I liked IW a lot more than HR (which is to say that IW did not irk me nearly as much). While IW made many of the same mistakes as HR (such as an even worse lack of subtlety), it did not make as many.
I do not usually judge a game by its graphics, but IW seems almost like they deliberately made things look as retarded as possible. Also, the whole thing was just incredibly petty (coffee house conspiracies and stuff) and really lacked the incredible depth and sense of reality that the first one had.
I will give IW this, while Thief DS did a lot better with the story line and making it fit into the original world, I could play through IW, but DS's gameplay and voice acting was so awful that I could not even play through it. I had to watch a video playthrough which somehow I found a lot less annoying.
Petty things yes, but still a lot of things to do, and some really interesting augmentation, it was just fun to mess around with the game and see what happens, My favourite game on the xbox, despie feeling cheated at first it had some great moments. Loved the hologram in Upper-Egypt for example. There were little 'WUT?? moments' but the coldness of everything did slowly get under your skin, big imho, but a criminally underrated game by Deus Ex -fans, a bit is always better than nothing at all and what else was there to play for a fix
Petty things yes, but still a lot of things to do, and some really interesting augmentation, it was just fun to mess around with the game and see what happens, My favourite game on the xbox, despie feeling cheated at first it had some great moments. Loved the hologram in Upper-Egypt for example. There were little 'WUT?? moments' but the coldness of everything did slowly get under your skin, big imho, but a criminally underrated game by Deus Ex -fans, a bit is always better than nothing at all and what else was there to play for a fix
Nah, if you keep settling for less, pretty soon you will be getting nothing of substance at all. I agree that some of the augs were really cool (like the remote control of robots and turrets), and the game had some potential, but it was pulled off awfully. I honestly didn't even expect one half as good as the first, but I did expect them to put the effort into making one as good as the first. You could tell though that not a lot of effort was put into it. (esp not into making it worthy of the first game)
I cannot forgive them for either game. As far as I am concerned, there is no DX series. There is DX, and that is all. I am willing to count Thief DS in the Thief cannon, simply because the story line was not that bad, they had Stephen Russell voice acting, they had at least one good, Thief-like level, etc. It was close enough. It disappointed me (esp the gameplay and voice acting), but I do count it part of the Thief series. IW and HR however I don't think are worthy of being part of the DX series.
johnhughthom
03-05-2012, 17:15
There are a lot of Deus Ex fans at the org, most of them appear to be ignoring this thread. Interesting, whatever could that mean?
I'm going back to ignoring it.
Thief DS can burn in hell. With IW I can see what they tried, but people just don't want that flexibility in playstyle, I want to be really fond of my lovingly upgraded mini-crossbow I don't to be able to carry around a rocket launcher with it. In DX it was of no use in doing that if you hadn't invested any oh so precious mods in the rocket launcher and upgraded heavy weapons skill. Game failed there for me, not the gameworld itself which was really interesting
There are a lot of Deus Ex fans at the org, most of them appear to be ignoring this thread. Interesting, whatever could that mean?
I'm going back to ignoring it.
But you being here is of so much importance to us, please don't go
heh you just read that
But you being here is of so much importance to us, please don't go
heh you just read that
One may ask, why did he even post?
Thief DS can burn in hell. With IW I can see what they tried, but people just don't want that flexibility in playstyle, I want to be really fond of my lovingly upgraded mini-crossbow I don't to be able to carry around a rocket launcher with it. In DX it was of no use in doing that if you hadn't invested any oh so precious mods in the rocket launcher and upgraded heavy weapons skill. Game failed there for me, not the gameworld itself which was really interesting
I agree that the role-playing elements in the first DX was its weakness. I honestly think that DX had quite a few gameplay flaws that could have been fixed in a sequel.
You are a super agent who thinks 87% faster than the average person, and you just got out of the Academy where you received top notch training, and you still cannot shoot a pistol to save your life!
If they wanted to include some role-playing stuff in it, and let your character get slightly better over time, that would be one thing, but the system they had seriously hurt the gameplay and detracted from the realism IMHO.
Also, it would have been awesome to have your weapons behave more realistically in the use and capabilities, to let you use iron-sights, etc, etc.
That said though, the combat was still fun, even if not perfect. I would expected a sequel to be an improvement, but it proved to be the opposite.
That said, even with imperfect combat and slightly less-than-it-could-be gameplay, DX was still the best game ever made just for its captivating game world. IW and HR did not have that going for them though, and the gameplay became even worse in them.
IW made a few improvements to gameplay, but regressed in many other areas. HR was just pure lousy.
HR was just pure suck <- you really arent doing yourself a favour.
you really arent doing yourself a favour.
huh?
huh?
It's a good game, can't say it isn't. Got anything better.
It's a good game, can't say it isn't. Got anything better.
I will say that it is a game with high production values, but IMO it is certainly not a good game. I found it quite boring and too much like the run of the mill console garbage out there today. I can see why others (who like the boring run-of-the-mill console garbage out there) would like it, but I personally did not think it was a very good game. (heck, I enjoyed PoP and Uncharted a lot more than that)
As far as it being a DX game: no. Not at all.
Got anything better? Unfortunately it seems that the golden age of gaming was in the late 90s and early 2000s. The only games that really struck me as excellent or original lately were HL: Episode 2, Portal, Mirror's Edge, and Darkest of Days. Unless I am forgetting something, that is all. All were excellent games for one reason or another, and though I enjoyed DX far more, they are models of things done right IMHO. Just because very few good games have been coming out lately does not mean that one of the typical, boring games which is a cut above the others is suddenly a good game.
What we need is a Computer Gaming Renaissance, and to start letting designers make their art rather than investors telling producers and directors to follow a boring, brain-dead, yet commercially successful cookie-cutter model. I get that millions of dollars go into these games, and that people want to make sure they make a profit, but business is about risk. The industry is just to risk-adverse. They have to start hunting for vision, trusting in it, and investing in it, instead of hiring a bunch of zombie college kids to turn out the same game made time and again with small variations.
Computer games aren't just a business, they are an art. You need artists.
The Wizard
03-21-2012, 17:18
Very few games count as art, though, even from that era. Besides DX (which I have yet to play), I can only really think of two games, both from the adventure genre: Grim Fandango and The Longest Journey. Perhaps Another World, just for its visionary visuals (yes, I did just make that alliteration), though it isn't from that period.
And the thing is that the industry has only gotten more dominated by a couple giant publishers, who have to cope with game development processes that are exponentially more expensive than they were back then. So isn't that vision a bit naive? Also because there were plenty of publishers and developers who churned out plenty of mediocre and crap games back then. You shouldn't romanticize the period, much as you'd like to. I mean, don't get me wrong -- I have the same feeling that you do, that in the late 90s and early 2000s the best games of all time were developed, and that there was generally a greater will to experiment than there is now. But I'm not sure if that's just me being jaded, not to mention nostalgic for my childhood, or if that's objective truth.
Very few games count as art, though, even from that era. Besides DX (which I have yet to play), I can only really think of two games, both from the adventure genre: Grim Fandango and The Longest Journey. Perhaps Another World, just for its visionary visuals (yes, I did just make that alliteration), though it isn't from that period.
And the thing is that the industry has only gotten more dominated by a couple giant publishers, who have to cope with game development processes that are exponentially more expensive than they were back then. So isn't that vision a bit naive? Also because there were plenty of publishers and developers who churned out plenty of mediocre and crap games back then. You shouldn't romanticize the period, much as you'd like to. I mean, don't get me wrong -- I have the same feeling that you do, that in the late 90s and early 2000s the best games of all time were developed, and that there was generally a greater will to experiment than there is now. But I'm not sure if that's just me being jaded, not to mention nostalgic for my childhood, or if that's objective truth.
I think you are forgetting Thief and Thief 2.
Sure, you had mediocre and crap games, but you do now too. You had many more good games back then than you do now.
gaelic cowboy
03-21-2012, 18:23
You shouldn't romanticize the period, much as you'd like to. I mean, don't get me wrong -- I have the same feeling that you do, that in the late 90s and early 2000s the best games of all time were developed, and that there was generally a greater will to experiment than there is now. But I'm not sure if that's just me being jaded, not to mention nostalgic for my childhood, or if that's objective truth.
Indeed for every Deus Ex there was a Daikatana and that was from the same company
The Wizard
03-21-2012, 21:34
Ion Storm also made Anachronox, a true blue cult classic if there ever was one. Anybody know if it was any good?
I think you are forgetting Thief and Thief 2.
Sure, you had mediocre and crap games, but you do now too. You had many more good games back then than you do now.
I have yet to play Thief, too, though you're probably right. But I don't think you can actually say the proportion of "good" to "bad" has changed. Perhaps creativity has suffered in mainstream gaming, but I don't know if the same can be said for the amount of good games. Mostly because I don't know if that's just me (and the fact that due to a crappy PC I haven't played many of the major releases of the past 5 years) or not.
You also gotta remember that at least in some cases, creative and unique games that are classics in their own right, sometimes even works of art, were such commercial flops that nobody dared to take a leap of faith again. Grim Fandango, after all, was a major reason the adventure gaming genre was eclipsed. Even if it was a work of art. That was the flipside of this period: production costs were rising, but many of the classics developed then could not cover them through sales.
Ion Storm also made Anachronox, a true blue cult classic if there ever was one. Anybody know if it was any good?
I have yet to play Thief, too, though you're probably right. But I don't think you can actually say the proportion of "good" to "bad" has changed. Perhaps creativity has suffered in mainstream gaming, but I don't know if the same can be said for the amount of good games. Mostly because I don't know if that's just me (and the fact that due to a crappy PC I haven't played many of the major releases of the past 5 years) or not.
You also gotta remember that at least in some cases, creative and unique games that are classics in their own right, sometimes even works of art, were such commercial flops that nobody dared to take a leap of faith again. Grim Fandango, after all, was a major reason the adventure gaming genre was eclipsed. Even if it was a work of art. That was the flipside of this period: production costs were rising, but many of the classics developed then could not cover them through sales.
Yes, art does have to appeal to the public, and if it doesn't and flops, then you learn your lesson for that game. You still have to be willing to take risks though. Also, one of the reasons that production costs have went so high is because game companies have been trying to hide the lack or depth in their games behind shiny visuals (which often do not help to make the game world look any more realistic or natural). Their priorities are wrong, and they treat humans like fish who are easily distracted with something shiny that moves a lot. Sure, you got a lot of kids like that, but I refuse to believe that majority of PC gamers would prefer shiny visuals over a deep, engaging game.
frogbeastegg
03-22-2012, 13:14
Ion Storm also made Anachronox, a true blue cult classic if there ever was one. Anybody know if it was any good?
I loved it, IMO it is the best thing Ion Storm produced by a very long way. Been wanting to replay it for years but couldn't due to compatibility woes. It was smart, inventive, amusing, and a whole lot of fun. At the time it was cinematic in a new way, with camera angles and cuts given a lot of attention. The plot contained a few good surprises, and was coherent enough that fans made a successful hour long movie out of it. It wasn't too combat heavy IIRC, and battles were turn-based so you had full control of your party. Some people dismissed it because it had a few JRPG stylings - their total loss.
GoG.com now has it for $5.99, fully functional on modern PCs. Go on, you know you want to. You get an entire planet in your party, and an old man whose special attack involves talking people to death with his boring life story ...
I have yet to play Thief, too
Gah! GoG.com again.
I have yet to play Thief
You wut
sigh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppV2EMfbk0w <- intro to get in the mood
The Wizard
03-31-2012, 16:08
Gah! GoG.com again.
You wut
sigh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppV2EMfbk0w <- intro to get in the mood
Let me rephrase... I've played it, but I never got beyond the second level. Plus I was in my early teens so barely got an inkling of the story ~;)
I've been playing a lot of golden oldies that I never got around to back in the day in the past months (KOTOR, The Longest Journey, Grim Fandango, Beyond Good & Evil, and now Deus Ex itself) anyhow, so I might as well add Thief to the list.
Let me rephrase... I've played it, but I never got beyond the second level. Plus I was in my early teens so barely got an inkling of the story ~;)
I've been playing a lot of golden oldies that I never got around to back in the day in the past months (KOTOR, The Longest Journey, Grim Fandango, Beyond Good & Evil, and now Deus Ex itself) anyhow, so I might as well add Thief to the list.
You won't regret playing Thief. It is, as Britt Reid would so delicately put it, 'the balls'.
You won't regret playing Thief. It is, as Britt Reid would so delicately put it, 'the balls'.
^- this man speaks the truth. Graphics will grow on you, I love them even if they are butt-ugly. Why oh why didn't they just optimise the Dark-engine :sweetheart: for Thief 3 is beyond me, especially if you see what the absolutely rabid fanbase managed to squeeze out of it. If you like the game you are in luck, as there is a wealth of lovingly crafted fanwork. Some are so good that they were hired (awesome that the makers actually play the fanwork)
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