Playing the bad guy in video games

[Major Robert Dump]

I cannot do it anymore. Not in Fallout-type RPGs, not in MMOs, and I lose immediate interest in a game where the main character is bad by default.

This is not to say I always play as an angel, but their is a huge difference between looking out for number one and being a meanie. In fact, even in games like Fallout 3, where you can level faster and get better loot if you just killed EVERYHTING, I found I cannot do it anymore.

Am I getting old? Am I going crazy? I actually feel guilty about something I do to a make-believe computer NPC, and get angry when I am nice to an NPC and they stabs me in the back or use my kindness to hurt others. I have never been the pull-the-wings-off-the-fly type of guy like some of the sociopaths here, nor have I ever been the type to look for a fight, but I am a text book sleazeball with a heart of gold, and I don't take crap off of people.

I don't understand. Am I dying? Could I be Jesus returned?

[Montmorency]

It's simple: kill them all.

If and when they murder you, the carnage stops.

[Vuk]

Play DX or Thief, you will be the good guy.

[TinCow]

This is not to say I always play as an angel, but their is a huge difference between looking out for number one and being a meanie. In fact, even in games like Fallout 3, where you can level faster and get better loot if you just killed EVERYHTING, I found I cannot do it anymore.

I don't tend to play evil, but I don't specifically because I feel there's not enough of a reward for doing so. I disagree that you level faster and get better loot, in fact it seems to me that there's little to no difference in any game about the rewards for good or bad actions. That's my main problem. Playing selfishly should provide far more benefits than playing altruisticly, which is inherently supposed to be its own reward. I've never understood why every peasant in every village is willing to give some ultra-special family heirloom that has been passed down for generations to the first random guy who wanders along and clears out that nearby monster-infested cave. On top of that, I find that 'evil' is portrayed very poorly in most games. For some reason, few writers seem capable of understanding that there are forms of 'evil' that don't involve being an insulting psychopath who murders everyone who looks at him. The closest I've seen are the Mass Effect games, in which the 'evil' version is essentially just a jerk and a bully. I find that far more realistic than the evil options in most other games. Even the Sith don't slay every single person they come across and steal their stuff. There's such a thing as tact and intelligence in villainy, and it is sorely missing in gaming.

[Tuuvi]

I feel guilty doing bad things in video games too, I've never been able to be the bad guy. Sometimes I feel like I'm missing out, the thieves guild and dark brotherhood quests in Skyrim seem like some of the funnest ones.

[Montmorency]

Being "evil" is about having fun in spite of the boring worms who would restrain you.

Toy with them.

[Centurion1]

Nothing to do with age

I am never capable of being evil. I play like myself not perfect and a little Cold but inherently a decent person who struggles nOt to do the right thing.

[Andres]

For some reason, few writers seem capable of understanding that there are forms of 'evil' that don't involve being an insulting psychopath who murders everyone who looks at him.

I love playing an insulting psychopath who muders everyone who looks at him :shrug:

[Peasant Phill]

I always try to play the opportunist. Never outspokenly evil but also not bound by morals or ethics. I havened played a game (apart from strategy games) where that actually got me ahead like it does in real life (not saying I'm actualy that way in real life). It seems in most games you must be the paragon of good or the ultimate evil to get the most benefits. That's quite boring.

[Graphic]

I don't have a problem with playing a bad guy in games in theory, but the problem is the bad guy options are usually mustache-twirling, silent movie villain type evil instead of something more complex. If you want to be evil your only option is to basically be a completely psychotic sadist who drinks panda blood and stomps kittens, like some avatar of Khorne or a devil worshiper. Its all black and white.

Video game writing for the most part hasn't matured enough to allow for the player to play as a villain as complex as say Hans Landa.

[seireikhaan]

Usually, I play as the self-absorbed type of character. Usually ends up being a jerk, but a pragmatic one who will do the nice things if it's the best way to get something done. Usually I don't have a problem with doing "bad" things in video games, ala selling out children's souls to demons in Dragon Age. Video game is a video game. But there's a particular renegade option in Mass Effect 3 that I just don't think I could bring myself to do, regardless of it all being fictional, it's just that bad. Imo, anyways.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Try evil on a truly grand stage - conquer the world in (just about any) Paradox game.

[phonicsmonkey]

I love playing an insulting psychopath who muders everyone who looks at him :shrug:

Me too - first thing I did in FO3 was lolmurder everyone in Goodsprings with a tire iron

[Fragony]

Being the badguy is always so poorly motivated, there is never really a good reason to be evil, apart from being evil. Being the good guy never breaks the game for me.

[HopAlongBunny]

I find that 'evil' is portrayed very poorly in most games. For some reason, few writers seem capable of understanding that there are forms of 'evil' that don't involve being an insulting psychopath who murders everyone who looks at him.

This. The most chilling display of evil I have ever come across was in a Russian novel. (sorry no clue what it was) The character was a minor player interacting between the 2 major characters. All he ever did was facilitate and aid others...never harmed a fly. The results of all this kindness was to lead each of the others into a sort of moral wasteland, where of course they destroyed themselves. Changed my conception of what "evil" might look like...

[rory_20_uk]

Computer games are a great way of relieving stress for me (dealing with patients in 10 minute slots who often attend with 2 or more problems), and it is the one place where wanton mayhem is OK. No one minds if I hurl some nukes or pick off civilians with a sniper rifle.

~:smoking:

[rajpoot]

Heh, I've never been able to play the bad guy in video-games either. It just not the same as playing a good samaritan, which gives this fuzzy feeling.

Although I guess it also depends a lot on the video game in question. In a well written game which can actually make you feel as though you are a part of the world, one gets more immersed so one simply plays as one would in RL. In a poorly written game it is easier to go against natural instincts.

Edit:

Although I do love going on rampages in GTA games.


But there's a particular renegade option in Mass Effect 3 that I just don't think I could bring myself to do, regardless of it all being fictional, it's just that bad. Imo, anyways.

Killing Mordin? :grin:

[Peasant Phill]

Try extra credits (http://www.penny-arcade.com/patv/show/extra-credits)

There should be an episode in there about moral and ethics.

(sorry don't have acces to videos I'm at work)

[seireikhaan]

Killing Mordin? :grin:
110%.

[Vladimir]

Do you know what I liked best about Halo? Guilt-free killing. That said, I always felt bad playing multiplayer. Something about shooting your friends in the face with a shotgun never appealed to me. :shrug:

[Kagemusha]

Play Red Orchestra 2 and you can concentrate on the essential aka: KILL!KILL! KILL! Give machine gunner some ammo and KILL some more!

[PanzerJaeger]

I've always been drawn to the 'bad guys' in fictional and historical media, whether it be film, literature, or video games. Tincow is right, though. Evil is too often one dimensional. Such characters are much more interesting when their motivations are complex and even relatable.

[Monk]

Killing Mordin? :grin:

Anyone who takes that option is an absolute monster and probably tells young children that Santa Claus doesn't exist. :snobby:

[TinCow]

I've always been drawn to the 'bad guys' in fictional and historical media, whether it be film, literature, or video games. Tincow is right, though. Evil is too often one dimensional. Such characters are much more interesting when their motivations are complex and even relatable.

Well-written evil characters can be seen in Baldur's Gate 2. In that game, there are several evil NPCs with fully fleshed out back stories and personas. Some are a bit superficial, but there are also characters like Edwin and Viconia. Edwin is evil in that he is entirely selfish, loves power, and thinks he's superior to pretty much everyone in the world. However, he's not a fool. He gets involved with major criminal organizations and gains power through manipulation and intellect. He uses his power to kill when necessary to achieve his goals, but he's not a murderer. Edwin's character also changes over the course of the game, when he has to begrudgingly admit that perhaps he's not superior to the PC, who turns into a demigod. Viconia is evil in that she does not value the lives of others and believes that many people deserve death, but she also doesn't murder for the sake of death alone. She has very strong reasons for acting the way she does, namely a great deal of experience with racism and abuse. Those characters were both extremely interesting and fun to play with. Why can't we have evil paths for main characters written like that?

[Craterus]

Agree with most of the comments about evil being too one-dimensional.

The other thing that has always bothered me is that most characters seem to be good guys by default. The best example that comes to mind is Red Dead Redemption. You could spend all your off-time killing civilians but, in the missions, John Marston always came off as pretty decent guy. So, even if you were to take the cartoonishly evil route while free-roaming, it always felt like a break from reality because you'd be back to helping farmers round up their lost cows by the next mission.

[Major Robert Dump]

I was really hoping for people to tell me I am Jesus returned. Guess not

[Beskar]

Being Evil =/= Being a complete immoral :daisy:. Neither is coming up with the most :daisy: plans saying one-liners like "Complete Global Saturation (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DrawJosmfP8)"

Sometimes in games like Mass Effect 3, the Renegade action "works" and is logical. But outside of that, I have never been "evil". Like some guy crying about the world is going to end and isn't going to save his family. Punch him in the face then family saved.

[Ironside]

Well-written evil characters can be seen in Baldur's Gate 2. In that game, there are several evil NPCs with fully fleshed out back stories and personas. Some are a bit superficial, but there are also characters like Edwin and Viconia. Edwin is evil in that he is entirely selfish, loves power, and thinks he's superior to pretty much everyone in the world. However, he's not a fool. He gets involved with major criminal organizations and gains power through manipulation and intellect. He uses his power to kill when necessary to achieve his goals, but he's not a murderer. Edwin's character also changes over the course of the game, when he has to begrudgingly admit that perhaps he's not superior to the PC, who turns into a demigod. Viconia is evil in that she does not value the lives of others and believes that many people deserve death, but she also doesn't murder for the sake of death alone. She has very strong reasons for acting the way she does, namely a great deal of experience with racism and abuse. Those characters were both extremely interesting and fun to play with. Why can't we have evil paths for main characters written like that?

Agreed, even if I belong to the "can't really play evil" camp normally. Not during my first playthrough. Maybe later, to play all versions and often when getting more gamey and less personal. Did enjoy Dungeon Keeper a long time ago though, so some evil works.

I would also find a game where being good is it's own reward would be interesting to play, in particulatr the tough version. Normally a more real life type of good and evil would be gratitude and hatred, with a few being able to repay in kind later on.

But the tough version would be that most NPC are "racist jerks" (as in activly downplaying your good actions because of some irrelevant reason). Now the interesting question is, can you keep up being good in such an environment, or will you stop caring or worse after a while?

[Fragony]

Being good could use some ambiguity as well. It would be cool if 'good' decisions have horrible consequences, you know it but you 'feed' on being good and are ultimately too selfish to do a little bit of evil for the greater good. These morality systems could never really satisfy me (haven't played Mass Effect). Kotor 2 tried I'll give them that.

[rajpoot]

Being good could use some ambiguity as well. It would be cool if 'good' decisions have horrible consequences, you know it but you 'feed' on being good and are ultimately too selfish to do a little bit of evil for the greater good. These morality systems could never really satisfy me (haven't played Mass Effect). Kotor 2 tried I'll give them that.

That's actually one my gripes with the morality system in games. It is predictable. Doing good always results in good outcomes. Never has it happened that doing something good came back and bit me in butt.

Then again I doubt that many people would be happy if they got nasty surprises where their well intended actions had unexpected outcomes.

[Beskar]

Then again I doubt that many people would be happy if they got nasty surprises where their well intended actions had unexpected outcomes.

I am sure I have played a game where that happens... but my memory is too fuzzy.

[Montmorency]

Jade Empire?

[Ibrahim]

Jade Empire?

personally, I was thinking some of the stories from SpoonyOne's counter monkey recollections* (i.e. D&D style games), and the Ultima series (to a limited extent).



*while OT, there was a series of particularly gruesome actions in one match led to the defeat of the arch-villain in a particular scenario. one who was supposedly invincible.

[naut]

The "bad guy" options are usually so inconceivable, they lack any sort of logic or rationale. Sure sadistic psychopaths are evil, but, subtler evil is so much more fun.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The best kind of villain is the one who is utterly convinced that he's either a hero, or a pragmatic fighter working toward the greater good, and he's also making certain moral sacrifices to achieve his ultimate goal.

Basically, we're talking about a politician. Except with a laser sword.

[Fragony]

That's what made Ozzymandias from Watchmen such a chilling character. A shame you don't see the carnage in the movies, the streets should be covered with blood and entrails