View Full Version : The Elephant in the room.
InsaneApache
05-11-2012, 11:01
Earlier this week a gang of Asian men were locked up for raping underage girls. It seems that things were brought to light over four years ago but nothing was done. I wonder why? Now that there has been a trial and convictions there is a lot of handwringing from the liberal elites. Initially the whole process was kept quiet. I wonder why?
Still celebrate that diversity chaps. I sure the raped kids were more than happy to be part of a vibrant culture.
As Louis used to say, in victimhood poker, racism beats sexism hands down. Everytime.
I just wonder why?
Asians are introvert silent guys who are good at maths, Starcraft and frying shrimps. What you English call Asians are Pakistani's and they aren't really good at anything except growing impressive beards and holding weird signs. Sometimes they drive taxi's but most live on welfare.
ICantSpellDawg
05-11-2012, 12:14
Asians are introvert silent guys who are good at maths and Starcraft and frying shrimps. What you English call Asians are Pakistani's and they aren't really good at anything except growing impressive beards and holding weird signs. Sometimes they drive taxi's but most live on welfare.
Ugh, I don't like this but I laughed. Most Pakistani's I've met are great people, maybe the quality increases with distance from Pakistan, what do I know? Corruption when left unchecked and treated with impunity will metastasize; irrespective of the ethnic background of the "corruptees". It's my new word for the day, which I've invented.
Ugh, I don't like this but I laughed. Most Pakistani's I've met are great people, maybe the quality increases with distance from Pakistan, what do I know? Corruption when left unchecked and treated with impunity will metastasize; irrespective of the ethnic background of the "corruptees". It's my new word for the day, which I've invented.
Very nice indeed
Only nineteen percent of Pakistanis have a negative view of Al Qaeda and by default the Taliban, whilst seventy-five percent wish to see Sharia law implemented. British-born Muslims make an estimated four hundred thousand trips a year to Pakistan, where as many as thirty threats against Britain are being monitored at any given time.
Thirty-three percent of Muslim students in Britain think killing in the name of Islam is permissible. Only thirty-seven percent oppose the introduction of Sharia law and only twenty-five percent oppose the creation of a worldwide Muslim caliphate.
MI5 believe there are up to four thousand potential terrorists and thirteen thousand Al Qaeda sympathisers living in Britain. The CIA devotes an astonishing forty percent of their anti-terrorist homeland security operations against suspects not in Afghanistan or Waziristan, but in Britain itself — a country described by one CIA operative as “a swamp of Jihadis.”
Barack Obama’s counter-terrorist advisor Bruce Riedel recently stated: “The British Pakistani community is recognised as probably Al Qaeda’s best mechanism for launching an attack against North America.”
Feel free to dispute any of this
Greyblades
05-11-2012, 12:39
twenty-five percent oppose the creation of a worldwide Muslim caliphate. Meh, this bit's abit less impactful, I'm sure you would find the same statistics if you asked any group if they oppose the idea of thier religion or country taking over the world. I dont dispute the rest though.
Only nineteen percent of Pakistanis have a negative view of Al Qaeda and by default the Taliban, whilst seventy-five percent wish to see Sharia law implemented. British-born Muslims make an estimated four hundred thousand trips a year to Pakistan, where as many as thirty threats against Britain are being monitored at any given time.
Thirty-three percent of Muslim students in Britain think killing in the name of Islam is permissible. Only thirty-seven percent oppose the introduction of Sharia law and only twenty-five percent oppose the creation of a worldwide Muslim caliphate.
When I googled that statement, I found some "British nationalists" site and some site called "angry white dude". But no source for those figures. What is the original source of those statistics, please?
When I googled that statement, I found some "British nationalists" site and some site called "angry white dude". But no source for those figures. What is the original source of those statistics, please?
Daily Telegraph that one
Meh, this bit's abit less impactful, I'm sure you would find the same statistics if you asked any group if they oppose the idea of thier religion or country taking over the world. I dont dispute the rest though.
The rest is more than enough imho, islam is a cancer.
Vladimir
05-11-2012, 13:01
The rest is more than enough imho, islam is a cancer.
Than cut it out: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/05/total-war-islam/
Greyblades
05-11-2012, 13:21
Daily Telegraph that one
...The daily Telegraph has a reputation of being biased against damn near everyone.
Vladimir
05-11-2012, 13:23
...The daily Telegraph has a reputation of being biased against damn near everyone.
That means they're the only ones you can trust.
...The daily Telegraph has a reputation of being biased against damn near everyone.
Good company than, but these figures come from you own governement. Yes it's that bad.
In America it isn't any different dear american posters, what is real here is real with you as well. Even Sweden doesn't have it dispite being oh so very flexible.
Unfortunately the sexual exploitation of young poor women and girls is common place around the world. In some cities in England it seems to be a group of men of Pakistani origin who are doing this. In other parts of the country, and the world, other groups exploit young women similarly. Albanian sex traffickers are a major problem in much of Europe. I dare say that if you were to examine the sex trade in South East Asia, you would see a majority of 40-60 year old European, American and Australian men paying for the sexual services of young girls.
Of course it's important to target the groups who do this in each context. However I think there are several elephants in several rooms.
Unfortunately the sexual exploitation of young poor women and girls is common place around the world. In some cities in England it seems to be a group of men of Pakistani origin who are doing this. In other parts of the country, and the world, other groups exploit young women similarly. Albanian sex traffickers are a major problem in much of Europe. I dare say that if you were to examine the sex trade in South East Asia, you would see a majority of 40-60 year old European, American and Australian men paying for the sexual services of young girls.
Of course it's important to target the groups who do this in each context. However I think there are several elephants in several rooms.
Well at least we agree on it being men of Pakistani origin..... Well let's skip that
Kralizec
05-11-2012, 14:07
Earlier this week a gang of Asian men were locked up for raping underage girls. It seems that things were brought to light over four years ago but nothing was done. I wonder why? Now that there has been a trial and convictions there is a lot of handwringing from the liberal elites. Initially the whole process was kept quiet. I wonder why?
Still celebrate that diversity chaps. I sure the raped kids were more than happy to be part of a vibrant culture.
As Louis used to say, in victimhood poker, racism beats sexism hands down. Everytime.
I just wonder why?
I realize that this isn't a problem for Fragony, but for some of us it's difficult to comment on a situation like this when we don't know anything about it. Link?
I realize that this isn't a problem for Fragony, but for some of us it's difficult to comment on a situation like this when we don't know anything about it. Link?
Awwwwwwww I got plenty of links I just stopped bothering posting them.
Wanting them = getting them
Rhyfelwyr
05-11-2012, 14:47
Here is a link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17989463)
8 of the men were Pakistani and one an Afghan.
They target white girls because they see them as sluts and don't value anybody outside their own community.
Religion of peace.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 14:53
I realize that this isn't a problem for Fragony, but for some of us it's difficult to comment on a situation like this when we don't know anything about it. Link?
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/tomchiversscience/100157378/race-rochdale-victim-blaming-and-a-liberal-blind-spot/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9253978/Keith-Vaz-says-child-sex-ring-case-not-race-issue.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9254982/Rochdale-grooming-trial-police-knew-about-sex-abuse-in-2002-but-failed-to-act.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9253250/Rochdale-grooming-trial-Police-accused-of-failing-to-investigate-paedophile-gang-for-fear-of-appearing-racist.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9252003/Rochdale-grooming-trial-Mohammed-Shafiq-the-campaigner-who-stood-up-to-the-abusers.html
The salient points are these:
1. The abuse was know about for 4-10 years (reports vary) but the Police failed to act.
2. There appears to be a sub-culture of Pakistani Muslim men who prey on white girls, but not girls from their communities.
The general consensus appears to be that the Police exercised "positive racism" in not investigating and the men convicted were racists because they assume all white girls are sluts.
Here is a link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17989463)
8 of the men were Pakistani and one an Afghan.
They target white girls because they see them as sluts and don't value anybody outside their own community.
Religion of peace.
Ohnoes, that simply cannot be
Not so streetwise Krazilec
Sasaki Kojiro
05-11-2012, 15:49
Did they "fail to act" or were they gathering enough evidence to actually convict?
They target white girls because they see them as sluts and don't value anybody outside their own community.
Religion of peace.
Gary Glitter thought the same about Vietnamese girls.
A minority =/= the majority.
Did they "fail to act" or were they gathering enough evidence to actually convict?
The issue is an old one, was in the press over a year ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-12141603
Greyblades
05-11-2012, 15:55
Gary Glitter thought the same about Vietnamese girls.
We must be the Nation of Peace.
I dont think that retort really works, some islamics say thiers is a religion of peace, yet I dont think anyone claims Britain is the Nation of peace.
Ah, I see you've edited it out.
Gary Glitter thought the same about Vietnamese girls.
A minority =/= the majority.
You must be from that special place called not here. You can not walk with your GF in an area where culture has been enriched without any musings about her profession, and it isn't assumed that she has a degree in arts from the antiquity.
Ah, I see you've edited it out.
Stupid comment on my part. Regardless, the thing with these articles is that they take a very small subsection of a far greater population and insinuate that all "muslims" are bad because of the actions of a minority. This applies to other minority groupings across the world such as the "blacks" in America.
The opening post suggests the "left" is knickers in a twist because it is an minority, if anything the "left" are facepalming about the fact there are multiple sex slaving rings operated by British Nations but if you stick a 'Muslim' in there, all hell breaks loose on the "Right".
Idaho has got it right. This thing happens all over the world and it is bad and should be tackled at every step, but really... "Muslim did something wrong?! Let's accuse the actions of a group of men to an entire population of a billion" is just a step too far.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 16:16
Stupid comment on my part. Regardless, the thing with these articles is that they take a very small subsection of a far greater population and insinuate that all "muslims" are bad because of the actions of a minority. This applies to other minority groupings across the world such as the "blacks" in America.
The opening post suggests the "left" is knickers in a twist because it is an minority, if anything the "left" are facepalming about the fact there are multiple sex slaving rings operated by British Nations but if you stick a 'Muslim' in there, all hell breaks loose on the "Right".
Idaho has got it right. This thing happens all over the world and it is bad and should be tackled at every step, but really... "Muslim did something wrong?! Let's accuse the actions of a group of men to an entire population of a billion" is just a step too far.
What you say may not be wrong, but the issue at hand which concerns those of us who might have white daughters/have white sisters is that we have a particular problem with Pakistani men in Britian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/may/09/grooming-girls-asian-men-barnados
So... it's an issue, that the Left is trying to talk away by saying, "In Eastern Europe..." In much of Eastern Europe people live in such poverty they sell their own daughters to pimps, but not in the UK. This wasn't the sex trade - this was a gang of predators from one ethnic group targeting another ethnic group.
Sasaki Kojiro
05-11-2012, 16:19
The issue is an old one, was in the press over a year ago.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-12141603
hmm, they should be more up front about the statistics rather than falling over themselves to talk about not stereotyping a whole community and how girls of all races are targetted. Parents having accurate information about what the threat to their daughters is is more important than some politicians anxiety about whether people will stereotype.
Stupid comment on my part. Regardless, the thing with these articles is that they take a very small subsection of a far greater population and insinuate that all "muslims" are bad because of the actions of a minority. This applies to other minority groupings across the world such as the "blacks" in America.
The opening post suggests the "left" is knickers in a twist because it is an minority, if anything the "left" are facepalming about the fact there are multiple sex slaving rings operated by British Nations but if you stick a 'Muslim' in there, all hell breaks loose on the "Right".
Idaho has got it right. This thing happens all over the world and it is bad and should be tackled at every step, but really... "Muslim did something wrong?! Let's accuse the actions of a group of men to an entire population of a billion" is just a step too far.
The outrage is over the (sketchy) allegations that the police didn't investigate because they were afraid of being accused of being racist. Their concern in this case should be entirely about the crime being committed, and yours should be as well, not hand wringing about how the "Right" will exaggerate it. Come to think of it, in any crime by a muslim there are going to be right wing people exaggerating it to all muslims, so we should just not report or tell parents about any of those crimes. Instead we should get right back to "tackling the problem at every step" whatever that means.
What you say may not be wrong, but the issue at hand which concerns those of us who might have white daughters/have white sisters is that we have a particular problem with Pakistani men in Britian.
So what? He'll never meet your sisters, what happens to them has no effect on him, but he will read headlines written by "right wingers" that "stereotype all muslims" and be annoyed. He just has his priorities set right surely.
What you say may not be wrong, but the issue at hand which concerns those of us who might have white daughters/have white sisters is that we have a particular problem with Pakistani men in Britian.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/may/09/grooming-girls-asian-men-barnados
So... it's an issue, that the Left is trying to talk away by saying, "In Eastern Europe..." In much of Eastern Europe people live in such poverty they sell their own daughters to pimps, but not in the UK. This wasn't the sex trade - this was a gang of predators from one ethnic group targeting another ethnic group.
Sure, if there is a current risk, then people need to be made aware that this happening. However, that doesn't mean the nice man from Pakistan who works in the local shop has a basement full of kidnapped white girls.
There is a clear difference between "being careful of acitivity x" and "all people are doing activity x, condemn them all!". That is the objection from my side. it is just totally wrong and vulgar. You wouldn't like it if some one ended up stereotyping you in such a way, and neither would I, simply because a minority group of British nations were doing the same in another country.
As it says in the Bible "Treat others as if you would like to be treated yourself", I believe you hold such a view and so do I.
The outrage is over the (sketchy) allegations that the police didn't investigate because they were afraid of being accused of being racist. Their concern in this case should be entirely about the crime being committed, and yours should be as well, not hand wringing about how the "Right" will exaggerate it. Come to think of it, in any crime by a muslim there are going to be right wing people exaggerating it to all muslims, so we should just not report or tell parents about any of those crimes. Instead we should get right back to "tackling the problem at every step" whatever that means.
Then that is what should be tackled, the failure of the action. However, the failure by one party doesn't give ground for widespread discrimination. Yes, the accused committed something terrible, people should have acted sooner. I don't think anyone would ever disagree on this point.
So what? He'll never meet your sisters, what happens to them has no effect on him, but he will read headlines written by "right wingers" that "stereotype all muslims" and be annoyed. He just has his priorities set right surely.
Yes, because clearly I would like to see harm to PVC's sisters, opposed to a reality where I hope such a thing would never happen to them, even though I have never met them, nor something I would ever wish to happen to anyone even people I might dislike.
Ja'chyra
05-11-2012, 16:22
I've read about this and it's one of the most disgusting things I've heard, the idea that the police let it go on, even on the grounds of building a case is just plain wrong, the overriding duty of any adult is to protect children. If my cousins had been put through this I would now be up for multiple murders, the very least they should get is chemical castration, if not castration performed by a drunk, blind alcoholic with a rusty knife.
There should also be an investigation into why the local community let this happen and if they approve of it, if so that society, whatever it's fundamental beliefs, should be torn down and the ground salted.
Stupid comment on my part. Regardless, the thing with these articles is that they take a very small subsection of a far greater population and insinuate that all "muslims" are bad because of the actions of a minority. This applies to other minority groupings across the world such as the "blacks" in America.
The opening post suggests the "left" is knickers in a twist because it is an minority, if anything the "left" are facepalming about the fact there are multiple sex slaving rings operated by British Nations but if you stick a 'Muslim' in there, all hell breaks loose on the "Right".
Idaho has got it right. This thing happens all over the world and it is bad and should be tackled at every step, but really... "Muslim did something wrong?! Let's accuse the actions of a group of men to an entire population of a billion" is just a step too far.
It did? I don't remember it. It's rather new and lefties don't like it as people might just get some doubts about multiculture. That happened here as the police so scared about the mlticultural left (with good reason) that they simply didn't act. They could lose their job because things just aren't the way people from 100% white neighbourhoods say you got to say it is. Buy a ticket for the Marry Poppins musical ffs I heard it is pretty good if you like that kind of thing
Vladimir
05-11-2012, 16:26
Here is a link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-17989463)
8 of the men were Pakistani and one an Afghan.
They target white girls because they see them as sluts and don't value anybody outside their own community.
Religion of peace.
So the Swedish rapes made it to England then.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 16:27
Sure, if there is a current risk, then people need to be made aware that this happening. However, that doesn't mean the nice man from Pakistan who works in the local shop has a basement full of kidnapped white girls.
There is a clear difference between "being careful of acitivity x" and "all people are doing activity x, condemn them all!". That is the objection from my side. it is just totally wrong and vulgar. You wouldn't like it if some one ended up stereotyping you in such a way, and neither would I, simply because a minority group of British nations were doing the same in another country.
As it says in the Bible "Treat others as if you would like to be treated yourself", I believe you hold such a view and so do I.
Nobody is saying "all Muslim" or "all Pakistanis" - nobody worth listening to at any rate - what people are saying is that this happened, and continues to happen, because these ethnic groups are not properly integrated into our society. They see white girls as fundamentally different to Pakistani girls, to the extent that they will do things to the former they would never dare do to the latter.
That's the definition of racism - these Pakistanis and those like them who abuse white girls are racists.
The attitude is endemic Sanjeev Bhaskar is on record saying his father told him, "you want to have fun, white girls ok, then you marry an Indian girl".
So the Swedish rapes made it to England then.
Make no mistake about these rapes it is a huge problem there. You are saver in Africa as a blond hot chick.
The attitude is endemic Sanjeev Bhaskar is on record saying his father told him, "you want to have fun, white girls ok, then you marry an Indian girl".
Is it racist though? He's basically stating a fact that if you're looking to have fun, you don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of getting it on with most Indian girls, and with White girls the chances are higher, which imho is correct. As for marrying into your own race and culture, that's what 95% of people already do anyway. He's just reasserting that trend.
what people are saying is that this happened, and continues to happen, because these ethnic groups are not properly integrated into our society. They see white girls as fundamentally different to Pakistani girls, to the extent that they will do things to the former they would never dare do to the latter.
That's the definition of racism - these Pakistanis and those like them who abuse white girls are racists.
The attitude is endemic Sanjeev Bhaskar is on record saying his father told him, "you want to have fun, white girls ok, then you marry an Indian girl".
Agreed, but racism doesn't call for more racism in return. That is the only objection from me in this thread. On the part about integration, I believe you already know my views on this, as for my preference of an open/assimilation society, to quote a historian speaking about Rome. "You have all these people coming here, bringing with them new ideas and customs, all these are effectively consumed by Roman society, taking bits and pieces then spitting out what is effectively Roman".
I have also been on the receiving end of such racism before seven years ago when I was dating a Greek girl, she was forced by her father to break the relationship since I wasn't a "Good Greek Boy".
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 16:40
Is it racist though? He's basically stating a fact that if you're looking to have fun, you don't have a snowball's chance in Hell of getting on with most Indian girls, and with White girls the chances are higher, which imho is correct. As for marrying into your own race and culture, that's 95% of people already do anyway. He's just reasserting that trend.
Not quite - Indian girls are hardly frigid, they're more tightly controlled by their parents/lie more. If you look up the actual quote, the subtext is "you can sleep with white girls, not marry them".
The point is that even in a moderate Indian household you have the same thinking - white girls are there to be used for fun, your own people aren't.
White girls are whores, because that's what a whore is, isn't ti - a woman you use for sex?
...Indian girls are hardly frigid, they're more tightly controlled by their parents/lie more.
Perhaps that's what White parents need to do as well. Otherwise, it's just a reflection of reality: it's easier to get a White girl in bed as opposed to an Indian girl.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 16:45
Perhaps that's what White parents need to do as well. Otherwise, it's just a reflection of reality: it's easier to get a White girl in bed as opposed to an Indian girl.
Got any stats on that?
You think Indian/Pakistani girls don't sneek out like white girls did 20-30 years ago?
Got any stats on that?
You think Indian/Pakistani girls don't sneek out like white girls did 20-30 years ago?
There's a huge difference between the White girls of today and the White girls of 30 years ago. The Indian girls of today might very well be like the White girls of 30 years ago. The problem is that the White girls of today aren't what they used to be.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 16:57
There's a huge difference between the White girls of today and the White girls of 30 years ago. The Indian girls of today might very well be like the White girls of 30 years ago. The problem is that the White girls of today aren't what they used to be.
You mean they no longer pretend to be virgins?
I'm shocked, shocked I say!
You mean they no longer pretend to be virgins?
I'm shocked, shocked I say!
Shocked or not, it doesn't help their reputation.
Ja'chyra
05-11-2012, 17:15
What, so a girl of, say for example, 18-20 goes out and gets laid she's a whore? Or maybe just gets a bad rep?
Shame on anyone who thinks this, she is just a girl doing what she wants with her body when she is old enough to make up her own mind. "Let he without sin" to quote another useless, in my mind and without wanting to cause offend to those who believe, religion.
What, so a girl of, say for example, 18-20 goes out and gets laid she's a whore?
To some people, absolutely.
...she is just a girl doing what she wants with her body when she is old enough to make up her own mind.
Sluts are also doing what they want with their bodies. They're still sluts though.
Ja'chyra
05-11-2012, 17:38
To some people, absolutely.
Sluts are also doing what they want with their bodies. They're still sluts though.
Small minded bigotry
Small minded bigotry
No, just truth.
Vladimir
05-11-2012, 17:42
Okay. It looks like productive conversation has come to an end.
:dancinglock:
rory_20_uk
05-11-2012, 17:45
In many parts of the world, you mess with the daughter and the Family / Clan will come and extract a blood debt. We don't do that sort of thing in the UK, we leave it to Social Services to ignore it, Police to not bother investigating and Politicians to brand all discussion implicit membership to the BNP.
Hence, it is a safe assumption that going after white girls is a safe course of action.
~:smoking:
In many parts of the world, you mess with the daughter and the Family / Clan will come and extract a blood debt. We don't do that sort of thing in the UK, we leave it to Social Services to ignore it, Police to not bother investigating and Politicians to brand all discussion implicit membership to the BNP.
Hence, it is a safe assumption that going after white girls is a safe course of action.
~:smoking:
Yes, looks like the British have become too civilized to defend themselves.
Strike For The South
05-11-2012, 18:06
No, just truth.
No, it's blaming the rape victims for not being pure enough.
It's shaming girls for an act that we exalt boys for
By your definition of slut, 90% of fathers instruct their sons to be sluts
I don't know why I am surprised. Stupid is as stupid does.
Strike For The South
05-11-2012, 18:10
Last time I checked rape is still a crime
The cops should be sacked and replaced with those whom wish to execute their duties
We can start their and worry about other things later.
This conversation ocilates between "blame those sluts" to "blame those muslims" I say we enforce our laws and be done with it.
Kralizec
05-11-2012, 18:17
The general consensus appears to be that the Police exercised "positive racism" in not investigating...
I only just read about this today, but the only thing I've come across so far that suggests this is a former Labour PM making that accusation.
ajaxfetish
05-11-2012, 20:15
[linguistic aside]
irrespective of the ethnic background of the "corruptees". It's my new word for the day, which I've invented.
A bold attempt, but not quite original. The Corpus of Contemporary American includes two instances of corruptee:
In order to have corruption in these unions, you need a corrupter and a corruptee -- we were the former and UNOC was the latter.
There is a corrupter and a corruptee involved in every bribe, and developed nations need to take the issue more seriously
And Google returns an estimate of 23,300 hits for "corruptee." Small, but present nonetheless.
[/linguistic aside]
Ajax
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 21:32
What, so a girl of, say for example, 18-20 goes out and gets laid she's a whore? Or maybe just gets a bad rep?
Shame on anyone who thinks this, she is just a girl doing what she wants with her body when she is old enough to make up her own mind. "Let he without sin" to quote another useless, in my mind and without wanting to cause offend to those who believe, religion.
You quoted it, so it's not useless - you obviously think the lesson should be taken on board.
Does it matter that these men are Muslims? I don't know, Muslims are Christians or "post Christians" - they have a different concept of morality, social behaviour, and most importantly Sin.
A Christian would say that no matter the Sin someone has committed, you shold not Sin against them - and that all Sins are equally painful for God. The motif in Islam is the older "scale" where your sins are weighed.
No, it's blaming the rape victims for not being pure enough.
It's shaming girls for an act that we exalt boys for
By your definition of slut, 90% of fathers instruct their sons to be sluts
I don't know why I am surprised. Stupid is as stupid does.
rvg presumably doesn't have any daughters, sisters, or cousins.
You are absolutely right though - it takes two to tango and what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
rvg presumably doesn't have any daughters, sisters, or cousins.
You are absolutely right though - it takes two to tango and what's good for the goose is good for the gander.
You're wrong, of course.
Sasaki Kojiro
05-11-2012, 21:51
I think people exaggerate the double standard on that stuff.
HoreTore
05-11-2012, 22:16
Pedo rings not restricted to just people of european descent?
Wow. That changes..... Well, nothing really.
And about the allegations that this was handled poorly because of the offenders ethnicity... Do I really have to point out that that allegation is completely unfounded and nothing more than the fantasy of one commentator? Since it reinforced existing prejudices, it hss persisted.
The fact of the case is that 9 men have been punished by the state for their crimes. They got no special treatment, in fact they got a harsher treatment because of their culture(ref verdict).
No doubt though, the fascist rethoric will continue and be as dishonest and ignorant as it always is.
As far as I can tell, no pedo stuff here.
HoreTore
05-11-2012, 22:25
As far as I can tell, no pedo stuff here.
I heard ages of 13-15... Am I wrong? If so, I change my statement to read "abuse ring", which also doesn't change anything.
Greyblades
05-11-2012, 22:31
...I guess if you want to be technical its actually called Hebephilia and Ephebophilia.
I heard ages of 13-15... Am I wrong? If so, I change my statement to read "abuse ring", which also doesn't change anything.
Pedo (http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/448575/pedophilia) is aiming pre-puberty aka ages ~11-12 and younger, and such people tend operate in very different ways; and the nature of the crime is also naturally different. Can't say I am familiar with the concept of abuse rings of teenagers, though; sounds more like something that has to do with human trafficking, which this case hasn't.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 22:35
Pedo rings not restricted to just people of european descent?
Wow. That changes..... Well, nothing really.
And about the allegations that this was handled poorly because of the offenders ethnicity... Do I really have to point out that that allegation is completely unfounded and nothing more than the fantasy of one commentator? Since it reinforced existing prejudices, it hss persisted.
The fact of the case is that 9 men have been punished by the state for their crimes. They got no special treatment, in fact they got a harsher treatment because of their culture(ref verdict).
No doubt though, the fascist rethoric will continue and be as dishonest and ignorant as it always is.
The fantasy of the local Pakistani PC?
What about the man from Bernado's who says Pakistani/Asian men are over-represented as abusers?
HoreTore
05-11-2012, 22:40
...I guess if you want to be technical its actually called Hebephilia and Ephebophilia.
A 14-year old is a child. Especially with regards to sexual relations. Especially the girls.
I have personal experience in this field, perhaps as the only one here? I've had a 14-year old girl come on to me, her 25-year old substitute teacher. And I have to say that anyone who gets turned on by their clumsy advances are deeply disturbed individuals. They're children. They might look old enough, but once they start their advances you realize that they have the sexual brain of a 4-year old.
So, pedo.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 22:43
A 14-year old is a child. Especially with regards to sexual relations. Especially the girls.
I have personal experience in this field, perhaps as the only one here? I've had a 14-year old girl come on to me, her 25-year old substitute teacher. And I have to say that anyone who gets turned on by their clumsy advances are deeply disturbed individuals. They're children. They might look old enough, but once they start their advances you realize that they have the sexual brain of a 4-year old.
So, pedo.
They're not children - quite a few 14 year olds are sexually active and aware, reproductively responsible etc. What you are describing is their lack of sophistication, which is what makes them unattractive to most grown men. However, if you see a woman as merely a sex object then you can see a 14 year old as a woman for that purpose.
HoreTore
05-11-2012, 22:45
They're not children - quite a few 14 year olds are sexually active and aware, reproductively responsible etc. What you are describing is their lack of sophistication, which is what makes them unattractive to most grown men. However, if you see a woman as merely a sex object then you can see a 14 year old as a woman for that purpose.
And that has what relation to a healthy view on sexual relations?
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 22:49
And that has what relation to a healthy view on sexual relations?
It relates to these men seeing white girls, but not Pakistani/Afghan girls, as sex objects.
This is a problem of race relations, specifically an extreme lack of integration.
It relates to these men seeing white girls, but not Pakistani/Afghan girls, as sex objects.
Do they view promiscuous Pakistani/Afghan girls any better? If they don't kill them that is.
HoreTore
05-11-2012, 22:55
It relates to these men seeing white girls, but not Pakistani/Afghan girls, as sex objects.
This is a problem of race relations, specifically an extreme lack of integration.
And they got a harsher sentence because of that.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 22:58
Do they view promiscuous Pakistani/Afghan girls any better? If they don't kill them that is.
These are 13 year old girls, they are unlikely to be promiscuous.
These are 13 year old girls, they are unlikely to be promiscuous.
I'm talking within the framework of the post below...
Nobody is saying "all Muslim" or "all Pakistanis" - nobody worth listening to at any rate - what people are saying is that this happened, and continues to happen, because these ethnic groups are not properly integrated into our society. They see white girls as fundamentally different to Pakistani girls, to the extent that they will do things to the former they would never dare do to the latter.
That's the definition of racism - these Pakistanis and those like them who abuse white girls are racists.
The attitude is endemic Sanjeev Bhaskar is on record saying his father told him, "you want to have fun, white girls ok, then you marry an Indian girl".
HoreTore
05-11-2012, 23:01
These are 13 year old girls, they are unlikely to be promiscuous.
13-year olds are actually bigger pigs than 14 and 15-year olds....
The proper answer to this thread though, is of course more feminism. We've emasculated the european male, now onto the next continent.
13-year olds are actually bigger pigs than 14 and 15-year olds....
The proper answer to this thread though, is of course more feminism. We've emasculated the european male, now onto the next continent.
If by the next continent you mean Africa, then yes, full speed ahead.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 23:17
I'm talking within the framework of the post below...
And yet - white boys have no problem marrying them. This was the attitude 30 years ago too - it's n't simple a reaction to modern sexual mores.
13-year olds are actually bigger pigs than 14 and 15-year olds....
The proper answer to this thread though, is of course more feminism. We've emasculated the european male, now onto the next continent.
Obviously not without less multiculturalism so that gender-equality is absorbed by immigrant groups though, right?
And yet - white boys have no problem marrying them. This was the attitude 30 years ago too - it's n't simple a reaction to modern sexual mores.
And that's White boys' business. White boys, like any other boys can marry whomever they manage to talk into it. They aren't required to marry anyone in particular though, nor are they required to be impartial and objective in their choices. Besides, ethnic subcultures tend not to intermingle with outsiders anyway, and there's nothing wrong with that, after all, that's what 95% of people end up doing.
HoreTore
05-11-2012, 23:28
And yet - white boys have no problem marrying them. This was the attitude 30 years ago too - it's n't simple a reaction to modern sexual mores.
Obviously not without less multiculturalism so that gender-equality is absorbed by immigrant groups though, right?
I have never in my life cared about culture.
A true commie knows that such nonsense belongs to the bourgeoisie.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 23:43
I have never in my life cared about culture.
A true commie knows that such nonsense belongs to the bourgeoisie.
Starting worrying - it is the issue in question.
Greyblades
05-11-2012, 23:47
A 14-year old is a child. Especially with regards to sexual relations. Especially the girls.
I have personal experience in this field, perhaps as the only one here? I've had a 14-year old girl come on to me, her 25-year old substitute teacher. And I have to say that anyone who gets turned on by their clumsy advances are deeply disturbed individuals. They're children. They might look old enough, but once they start their advances you realize that they have the sexual brain of a 4-year old.
So, pedo.
Not the point, I thought Viking was saying that there was no pedophillia because as a technical term a pedophile is one who sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children (13 years or younger), Hebephiles are sexually attracted to early pubescent children (11–14) and Ephebophiles are attracted to late pubescent (15 to 19). For myself I dont care what they are labled, they acted in a horrific manner and they deserve nothing less than the death penalty.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-11-2012, 23:53
Not the point, I thought Viking was saying that there was no pedophillia because as a technical term a pedophile is one who sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children (13 years or younger), Hebephiles are sexually attracted to early pubescent children (11–14) and Ephebophiles are attracted to late pubescent (15 to 19). For myself I dont care what they are labled, they acted in a horrific manner and they deserve nothing less than the death penalty.
Actually, aren't Ephebophiles attracted to teenage boys? An Ephebe is a beardless boy.
Ah, I see from wiki the term is corrupted. I can't help thinking we should use more precise terms for sexual perversions.
Greyblades
05-11-2012, 23:59
Sometimes I wish we didnt need any terms for sexual perversions more kinky than Urination .
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-12-2012, 00:01
Sometimes I wish we didnt need any terms for sexual perversions more kinky than Urination .
I often wish we still gelded perverts and hung them with iron chains.
Ah - back when the Church was righteous.
I often wish we still gelded perverts and hung them with iron chains.
Ah - back when the Church was righteous.
Occasionally things still get done right. This guy had a problem and did what any good father would do: he took care of it.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2068179/Father-George-Loader-killed-man-John-molested-daughter-3-scattered-dismembered-body-parts.html
Greyblades
05-12-2012, 00:07
You know I think Stan and Kyle say it best. (http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/104011/rightful-persecution)
Rhyfelwyr
05-12-2012, 00:19
The comparisons being made between this case and that of other abuse rings simply don't cut it.
First off, the victims were targeted solely because of their racial profile. Eastern Europeans women may become trapped in prostitution rings because of their poverty. Vietnamese girls may be targeted by European men because they are able to get away with it in that country. In these cases the ethnic group of the victims is not the reason why they were targeted. What makes the case with these Pakistani men unique is that they targeted their victims purely because of their race.
Secondly, another reason why the comparison doesn't work is the relationship of the perpetrators with society. European men have to travel to Vietnam to find their victims because that sort of thing would never be tolerated by European society. Pedophiles are completley ostracised, vulnerable to vigilante-justice and generally regarded as the scum of the earth. On the other hand questions are being asked about whether the nature of the Pakistani community in Britain allowed these men to operate unhindered for so long.
Thirdly, there is the question over whether political motivitions had an impact on the ability of the police to do their job. This point is still really speculation but it's worth considering, especially given that we know the police had been aware for some time that this ring was active. I find it hard to believe this is par for the course when it comes to gathering evidence - effectively sacrificing more young girls so that they could make a stronger criminal conviction. Really?
The comparisons being made between this case and that of other abuse rings simply don't cut it.
First off, the victims were targeted solely because of their racial profile. Eastern Europeans women may become trapped in prostitution rings because of their poverty. Vietnamese girls may be targeted by European men because they are able to get away with it in that country. In these cases the ethnic group of the victims is not the reason why they were targeted. What makes the case with these Pakistani men unique is that they targeted their victims purely because of their race.
Or is it religion? Or the fact that they thought they could do it to those girls without the fear of being lynched by their neighbors?
Secondly, another reason why the comparison doesn't work is the relationship of the perpetrators with society. European men have to travel to Vietnam to find their victims because that sort of thing would never be tolerated by European society. Pedophiles are completley ostracised, vulnerable to vigilante-justice and generally regarded as the scum of the earth. On the other hand questions are being asked about whether the nature of the Pakistani community in Britain allowed these men to operate unhindered for so long.Now this is a valid point.
Thirdly, there is the question over whether political motivitions had an impact on the ability of the police to do their job. This point is still really speculation but it's worth considering, especially given that we know the police had been aware for some time that this ring was active. I find it hard to believe this is par for the course when it comes to gathering evidence - effectively sacrificing more young girls so that they could make a stronger criminal conviction. Really?So who's the real monster here, the silent majority or the cops whose duty is to protect the people?
Rhyfelwyr
05-12-2012, 01:20
Or is it religion? Or the fact that they thought they could do it to those girls without the fear of being lynched by their neighbors?
Well religion is really synonymous with race for our purposes here, ultimately the Pakistani community as a whole regards white women as trash. Although they seem to frame it in racial terms themselves. As we heard earlier, "white women are for fun".
As to the perpetrators possibly picking white girls because their community would not allow them to attack their own, even if that was the case (which is unlikely given the above), it would only show how deep the racism was in the wider community.
So who's the real monster here, the silent majority or the cops whose duty is to protect the people?
Well we don't know the particulars yet, although it is possible that it is down to an accumulation of errors.
InsaneApache
05-12-2012, 01:54
Pedo rings not restricted to just people of european descent?
Wow. That changes..... Well, nothing really.
And about the allegations that this was handled poorly because of the offenders ethnicity... Do I really have to point out that that allegation is completely unfounded *and nothing more than the fantasy of one commentator? Since it reinforced existing prejudices, it hss persisted.
The fact of the case is that 9 men have been punished by the state for their crimes. They got no special treatment, in fact they got a harsher treatment because of their culture(ref verdict).
No doubt though, the fascist rethoric will continue and be as dishonest and ignorant as it always is.
I wish I had a 'handringing' smilie.
*Not true and you effin know it.
Well religion is really synonymous with race for our purposes here, ultimately the Pakistani community as a whole regards white women as trash. Although they seem to frame it in racial terms themselves. As we heard earlier, "white women are for fun".
Let me ask you this, would they have extended the same kind of treatment to muslim girls (of any race) or to Christian Pakistani girls(yes, they do exist)? Keep in mind that I'm not trying to sugarcoat what they did (personally, I'd rather see them dead or in an American prison picking up the soap for the aryan brotherhood), but there's a huge difference between a racial hatred and ideological one.
InsaneApache
05-12-2012, 02:11
It's not religious. It's cultural. rather explodes multi-culturism wouldn't you think?
It's not religious. It's cultural. rather explodes multi-culturism wouldn't you think?
Never been a fan of multiculturalism myself. Speaking of culture though, don't Italian men oftentimes act pretty much the same (i.e. like complete pigs) way if they see an unescorted blonde on the streets of, say, Naples?
I can buy the cultural argument, but I can't consider this to be an indication of racism.
Rhyfelwyr
05-12-2012, 02:34
Let me ask you this, would they have extended the same kind of treatment to muslim girls (of any race) or to Christian Pakistani girls(yes, they do exist)?
I'm well aware of Pakistani Christians, they make up 50% of the population in one of the cities there, can't remember what one.
And the answer to your question is "no", no they do not treat Pakistani Christian girls that way, there are quite a few of them in the diaspora in Britain.
In their eyes, white girls are trash and their white skin is a clear indication of their trashy status. Not Pakistani Christian girls. Not Jewish girls. Not East Asian girls. Not any other group of girls that don't happen to be Muslim. Just white girls.
Keep in mind that I'm not trying to sugarcoat what they did (personally, I'd rather see them dead or in an American prison picking up the soap for the aryan brotherhood), but there's a huge difference between a racial hatred and ideological one.
Speaking of prison gangs the Islamists are getting massive in the UK prisons. Forcing young inmates from their community to convert to al-Qaeda ideology, taking down posters of women, banning music on their wings, smuggling tapes of suicide bomber memorials etc.
From what I've heard UK prisons are starting to sound a lot more like American prisons. Divided along racial lines and nastier in general. Another things we can thank diversity for.
InsaneApache
05-12-2012, 02:54
Never been a fan of multiculturalism myself. Speaking of culture though, don't Italian men oftentimes act pretty much the same (i.e. like complete pigs) way if they see an unescorted blonde on the streets of, say, Naples?
I can buy the cultural argument, but I can't consider this to be an indication of racism.
Once you get away from northern europe/scandanavia women are, pretty much, in the main regarded as slabs of meat. To be used. At whim.*
*OK broad brush but made to make a point.
Speaking of prison gangs the Islamists are getting massive in the UK prisons. Forcing young inmates from their community to convert to al-Qaeda ideology, taking down posters of women, banning music on their wings, smuggling tapes of suicide bomber memorials etc.
Interesting. Citation needed?
Once you get away from northern europe/scandanavia women are, pretty much, in the main regarded as slabs of meat. To be used. At whim.*
*OK broad brush but made to make a point.
It worth mentioning that I was grabbed in the groin by a female totally unknown to me in London though. 'checking out your package'
Edit. hax you silly boy, don't know if I should give you a pet on the hat or slap you in your face
Furunculus
05-12-2012, 10:45
...The daily Telegraph has a reputation of being biased against damn near everyone.
Did they just make those figures up then?
HoreTore
05-12-2012, 10:45
I wish I had a 'handringing' smilie.
*Not true and you effin know it.
The perpotrators were caught by the police and sentenced by the courts. And they got additional sentencing because of their view on women.
Yes, what protection. So much for fascist paranoia.
The perpotrators were caught by the police and sentenced by the courts. And they got additional sentencing because of their view on women.
Yes, what protection. So much for fascist paranoia.
These things happen all the time, this just got in the news. Muslims are responsible for not 98, not 99, but 100% responsible for all streetrape in your own capital. Or aren't they
Furunculus
05-12-2012, 11:06
90percent of UK cases of child grooming for sex are against individuals from a west Asian ethnic/cultural background.
I am happy to conclude two things:
1) the culture is inferior in respect to British values, and assimilation ought to be a priority
2) immigration from these places should slow sufficiently to allow assimilation of those here already
I don't feel the same urge to apply this maxim to the finnish community.
This is discrimination, I am okay with that.
HoreTore
05-12-2012, 11:07
These things happen all the time, this just got in the news. Muslims are responsible for not 98, not 99, but 100% responsible for all streetrape in your own capital. Or aren't they
No, they are not.
But I have to admit, it makes such a good story, so why bother with the facts?
HoreTore
05-12-2012, 11:10
90percent of UK cases of child grooming for sex are against individuals from a west Asian ethnic/cultural background.
That kinda pulls the plug on the paranoia in this thread, that the police don't investigate muslims, doesn't it?
No, they are not.
But I have to admit, it makes such a good story, so why bother with the facts?
Yes, they are. And even if it was 99% it would be bad. Heck, if it was 80% it would be pretty bad. But it's 100% bad. A woman is more likely to get raped on the streets of Norway than she is when entering a township in South Africa.
HoreTore
05-12-2012, 11:16
Yes, they are. And even if it was 99% it would be bad. Heck, if it was 80% it would be pretty bad. But it's 100% bad. A woman is more likely to get raped on the streets of Norway than she is when entering a township in South Africa.
Considering that the norwegian police don't do statistics on religious affiliation, I'm not curious about where you got your number from, as I know it's fake, probably taken from some random racist blog.
As for the likelyhood of getting raped on the streets; it's insignificant. The last "rape-wave" was about 10 rapes or so in a months time, from a population of about 300.000 women. It's a higher risk than getting murdered though(20-30 murders per year in Norway).
Considering that the norwegian police don't do statistics on religious affiliation, I'm not curious about where you got your number from, as I know it's fake, probably taken from some random racist blog.
Comes from your own police in fact mia muca
HoreTore
05-12-2012, 11:20
Comes from your own police in fact mia muca
Then it's a garantueed fake, since they don't do statistics on religious affiliation.
Check thy sources.
Furunculus
05-12-2012, 11:26
That kinda pulls the plug on the paranoia in this thread, that the police don't investigate muslims, doesn't it?
Perhaps so, but that is not my concern.
My concern is why an immigrant group that makes up circa 5 percent of the population is responsible for 90 percent of child sex ring cases
Further, my concern is why it seems to matter so little when we all know that volume would be dialed up to 11 if this was catholic priests! I am not catholic, christian, or from a catholic country.
Inverse/positive racism does appear to be a problem, and a problem caused by the necessity to defend the creed of multiculturalism rather than expect assimilation from our many immigrant groups.
We are in effect electing to continue importing serious and socially divisive crimes, committed against british nationals! I am a civic nationalist, so it is the "british" part that I care about.
Again, to use the finnish situation, I know loads of them and many are friends, but they are always dispersed and never really socialize in clumps. Moreover, they appear to be responsible for an utterly negligible proportion of crime. They seem like an ideal immigrant group and I would discriminate in favorite of finnish nationals if we selected economic migrants.
Ergo, I would discriminate against other ethno-cultural groups. I am sure some useful criteria based on tendency to geographic dispersion and proportion of serious offenses could be drafted.
This of course being an entirely separate matter from asylum seekers.
HoreTore
05-12-2012, 11:27
The problem with the Catholic abuse wasn't the abuse itself, but the response from the church, ie. the cover-ups and internal investigations.
Then it's a garantueed fake, since they don't do statistics on religious affiliation.
Check thy sources.
I did. Did you. A little google will settle things really fast.
InsaneApache
05-12-2012, 11:54
The problem with the Catholic abuse wasn't the abuse itself, but the response from the church, ie. the cover-ups and internal investigations.
How ironic.
HoreTore
05-12-2012, 12:01
I did. Did you. A little google will settle things really fast.
This (http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.7856382) is a list of all the assault rapes/attempts from 1.1.2011 to november 2011. Enoug to prove your ststement wrong.
As for religious affiliation, as I have already said, there is no statistics collected on that.
This (http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/norge/1.7856382) is a list of all the assault rapes/attempts from 1.1.2011 to november 2011. Enoug to prove your ststement wrong.
As for religious affiliation, as I have already said, there is no statistics collected on that.
Disagree with the head of Oslo's police if you think my numbers are off.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-12-2012, 13:06
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9261748/Arrests-made-in-second-Rochdale-sex-grooming-scandal.html
And now the Scandal pulls in Afro-Carribeans.
It's because the girls are white, it's like that Chanel Four documentary that odious Black "journalist" did "White Girls are Easy".
Sure - the ones particularly looking for a black man might be.
Ser Clegane
05-12-2012, 13:12
I wonder if this article refers to these Oslo "statistics" (difficult to tell of course if no link is provided for the statistics...)
Norway: Gil Ronen distorts Oslo police report by claiming rapists are all muslims (http://baltic-review.com/2012/01/norway-gil-ronen-distorts-oslo-police-report-by-claiming-rapists-are-all-muslims/)
NB: I acknowledge that I do not know anything about the "Baltic Review" - so it might of course be leftist propaganda ~;)
I wonder if this article refers to these Oslo "statistics" (difficult to tell of course if no link is provided for the statistics...)
Norway: Gil Ronen distorts Oslo police report by claiming rapists are all muslims (http://baltic-review.com/2012/01/norway-gil-ronen-distorts-oslo-police-report-by-claiming-rapists-are-all-muslims/)
NB: I acknowledge that I do not know anything about the "Baltic Review" - so it might of course be leftist propaganda ~;)
You will find the police saying it themselve on youtube.
Ser Clegane
05-12-2012, 13:15
Link?
Ser Clegane
05-12-2012, 13:26
Cute ... and kind of predictable.
So, perhaps the videos that refer to "police statistics" are exactly in line with what is referred to in the article?
Cute ... and kind of predictable.
So, perhaps the videos that refer to "police statistics" are exactly in line with what is referred to in the article?
Ffs you will find it right there, I don't post links anymore. If you simply do a search you will find the official statement by Oslo's police.
Ser Clegane
05-12-2012, 13:54
:shrug:
Sorry - not going through all these videos that pop up from the usual suspects and that refer to the 5 assault rapes done by foreigners in 2010 (which seems to be the only kind of statistic that is out there) to provide you with a leg to stand on.
:shrug:
Sorry - not going through all these videos that pop up from the usual suspects and that refer to the 5 assault rapes done by foreigners in 2010 (which seems to be the only kind of statistic that is out there) to provide you with a leg to stand on.
I have yet to figure out how the copy paste function works, but the first video if you type in 'all rapes oslo' is the one you really don't want
Kadagar_AV
05-12-2012, 16:28
The article (http://www.dagbladet.no/2009/04/15/nyheter/voldtekt/innenriks/5759702/)
The clip (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evtwNVZXDYk)
Both sources quoting the Police Chief of Oslo. She states that the last 3 years 100% of the assault rapes have been commited by non-western immigrants.
Looks credible to me.
Cute ... and predictable
Shut up and kiss me
Ser Clegane
05-12-2012, 18:01
Shut up and kiss me
Hardly - so I see that HoreTore (as well as the article I linked to) are entirely correct with the statement that no religion at all was mentioned - no?
And that also your statement "A woman is more likely to get raped on the streets of Norway than she is when entering a township in South Africa" is complete hyperbole?
Sorry - no good night kiss for that, Frag - at least not from me ~:)
Hardly - so I see that HoreTore (as well as the article I linked to) are entirely correct with the statement that no religion at all was mentioned - no?
And that also your statement "A woman is more likely to get raped on the streets of Norway than she is when entering a township in South Africa" is complete hyperbole?
Sorry - no good night kiss for that, Frag - at least not from me ~:)
Of course it's hyperbole what good would it be if it wasn't. It are still solid numbers though
Kadagar_AV
05-12-2012, 18:15
That religion isn't mentioned isn't the same as it not being a factor though.
However, when they talk about non-western assault rapists, I am ready to bet pretty big money that they don't talk about Japanese Buddhists...
Ser Clegane
05-12-2012, 18:23
Well to quote from the other article on the 2010 numbers:
“Statistics regarding assault rapists:
The Oslo Police District has given a report of rapes in Oslo in 2010. The report shows that for all types of rape, except assault rape, European perpetrators are in the majority, and they are mostly Norwegian. Assault rapes covers only five identified unique person. These have all a foreign origin. The number is however, so low that it does not provide a basis for drawing conclusions with regard to country of origin. Two of them were very young (under 18) and two had severe psychiatric diagnoses and cannot be regarded as representative of their ethnic culture. It is highlighted in the report that generalizations like “Oslo’s rapists are foreigners”, which have been seen in media, are wrong. The report gives no statistics regarding religion of rapists.
Yours Sincerely,
Grethe Kleivan
Deputy Director General, “
So - based on that religion, culture etc. might or might not be a factor. You can of course speculate - but the claim that statistics prove that all assault rapes (and suggesting that all is a pretty massive number) are done by muslims is false - plain and simple.
HoreTore
05-12-2012, 18:27
That religion isn't mentioned isn't the same as it not being a factor though.
However, when they talk about non-western assault rapists, I am ready to bet pretty big money that they don't talk about Japanese Buddhists...
No, the main perps are easterrn europe, africa and the middle east.
And the number is 41 in three years. If we exclude serial rapists, that means at most 41 offenders, from an immigrant population of about 600.000. Yes, those 41 are obviously reason enough to throw out the other 599.959....
And as usual, the nonsensical rambling from the racists about "100% muslims" is utterly false. But having 100% muslims does make a good story of course, lies are usually good stories.
Kadagar_AV
05-12-2012, 18:39
You are of course right Ser Clegane.
It would have been better phrased "from the statistics it is safe to assume that a immigrant from a islamic country is several thousand percent more likely to commit rape than a Norwegian borne one". Depending on how you work the numbers, I get that they are between 2000% (if HoreTore would do the math) - 5000% (if Fragony did the math) more likely to commit a rape crime.
I'd estimate it to be around 3500% more likely, which is the number I got doing the math for Sweden.
So yes, of course no one would claim that only Muslim immigrants rape.
But isn't the real question why we allow a culture with several thousand percent higher rape statistics to take root in our society.
Kadagar_AV
05-12-2012, 18:44
No, the main perps are easterrn europe, africa and the middle east.
And the number is 41 in three years. If we exclude serial rapists, that means at most 41 offenders, from an immigrant population of about 600.000. Yes, those 41 are obviously reason enough to throw out the other 599.959....
And as usual, the nonsensical rambling from the racists about "100% muslims" is utterly false. But having 100% muslims does make a good story of course, lies are usually good stories.
No, the MENA immigrants should be kicked out for plenty of other reasons as well. That 41 of your fellow countrymen got their sexual lives destroyed because people like you are doing a social experiment is but a minor factor compared to the other problems.
Ser Clegane
05-12-2012, 18:45
I have to admit I'd be very curious to see your calculations...
Does "depending on how you work the numbers" include in this case the option to make up numbers based on what you feel must be true?
Well to quote from the other article on the 2010 numbers:
So - based on that religion, culture etc. might or might not be a factor. You can of course speculate - but the claim that statistics prove that all assault rapes (and suggesting that all is a pretty massive number) are done by muslims is false - plain and simple.
100% isn't straightforward enough for you tastes?
Kadagar_AV
05-12-2012, 18:50
Ser Clegane, I have been interested in these questions for years, so it's not a simple calc.
And again, depending on how you factor stuff in you get very different outcomes.
Run some numbers yourself, plenty of info out there.
Kralizec
05-12-2012, 18:51
And about the allegations that this was handled poorly because of the offenders ethnicity... Do I really have to point out that that allegation is completely unfounded and nothing more than the fantasy of one commentator?
I wish I had a 'handringing' smilie.
*Not true and you effin know it.
Like I've posted on page two, the only thing that suggests the police ignored the case because of their ethnic background is a former Labour MP making that accusation in the Telegraph- or at least, I've not found anything else. If there is actually any other evidence of it I'd certainly like to see it.
I take it you're basing all this on "common sense" as opposed to information, right?
HoreTore
05-12-2012, 18:53
Another interesting rape statistic:
99.99-whateverpercent of rapes(and similar for most other crimes, in fact) are committed by men. Why isn't the extreme right calling for severe limitations on the liberty of males? It would be silly, that's why. Just as silly as putting restrictions on any other group X.
Another interesting rape statistic:
99.99-whateverpercent of rapes(and similar for most other crimes, in fact) are committed by men. Why isn't the extreme right calling for severe limitations on the liberty of males? It would be silly, that's why. Just as silly as putting restrictions on any other group X.
I just happen to care more for the women who just want to do their thing than I care for men for men who won't let them. In the seventies I would be seen as extreme left, just saying
rory_20_uk
05-12-2012, 19:01
Another interesting rape statistic:
99.99-whateverpercent of rapes(and similar for most other crimes, in fact) are committed by men. Why isn't the extreme right calling for severe limitations on the liberty of males? It would be silly, that's why. Just as silly as putting restrictions on any other group X.
Is that reported cases of rape? Who would believe a man was rape by a woman? What man would come forward and admit such a thing? Domestic abuse is also massively underreported. Do the authorities help, as is the case when women are underreported victims? Nope. A NHS poster even used the female gender in all their ads
Women can claim rape based that they were too drunk to consent. And as far as I am aware, no man has ever stated he was rape as he was too drunk to consent. The alcohol tolerance of men is amazing!
~:smoking:
Kralizec
05-12-2012, 19:32
100% isn't straightforward enough for you tastes?
Read it again.
The report shows that for all types of rape, except assault rape, European perpetrators are in the majority, and they are mostly Norwegian. Assault rapes covers only five identified unique person. These have all a foreign origin. The number is however, so low that it does not provide a basis for drawing conclusions with regard to country of origin. Two of them were very young (under 18) and two had severe psychiatric diagnoses and cannot be regarded as representative of their ethnic culture.
Rhyfelwyr
05-13-2012, 01:21
Interesting. Citation needed?
Here you go (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7428933/Muslim-gangs-imposing-sharia-law-in-British-prisons.html). If you google "islamist gangs uk prisons" or something similar you will see plenty of articles.
Read it again.
I'll take the official statement of the police over that if you don't mind
Furunculus
05-13-2012, 09:38
mr hollande is sending us a boat load more immigrants:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/globalbusiness/9261905/High-earners-say-au-revoir-to-France.html
I am quite happy to receive them.
there taxes will be nice too. :)
Furunculus
05-13-2012, 09:40
But isn't the real question why we allow a culture with several thousand percent higher rape statistics to take root in our society.
indeed, that is THE question.
99.99-whateverpercent of rapes(and similar for most other crimes, in fact) are committed by men. Why isn't the extreme right calling for severe limitations on the liberty of males? It would be silly, that's why. Just as silly as putting restrictions on any other group X.
well, a simple difference is that we would not be talking about whether to keep on importing non-nationals men from outside , to rape passport-holding people on the inside.
Centurion1
05-13-2012, 09:51
The Hunk thread?
No I really havent heard of such a subforum. Theres not one the index page.
dear god boy!
we need to acclimate you to human sarcasm and give a brief lesson on interpreting it through writing. Did you think that Swift really wanted to eat Irish babies as well?
Strike if I may weigh in a little bit on your statement regarding statistical reckoning.... as someone who does stats and stares at excel all day for work I feel the need to point out to you that those numbers differences between each other are more than workable with. The math would be a bother and I would never do it because those two numbers aren't really enough for an accurate assessment but any individual who take a couple semesters of stats in university could do it with some references. The issue would be verifying the reports and dealing with the inevitable outliers.
That being said our dear friend Kadagar's numbers are in fact off. I doubt he took any of the variables you mentioned into account and probably did some basic division across the population parameters and didnt even account for a potential rejection of his hypotheses as well as likely operated under the assumption that the factors would all remain constant throughout the levels of population which of course they would not do.
The number of these immigrant groups (slav (that one hurts my heritage to write), muslim, african) would likely be higher but not that dramatically high of a number. I must say though I also expect rape victims that those kinds of men would find themselves most able to target (other poor immigrants from similar ethnic backgrounds) would be much more likely to under report than ethnic Norwegians.
Well im off to write a fifteen page paper in 36 hours. Kill me now.
indeed, that is THE question.
Easily answered, during the oil crisis in the seventies what was then the EU struck a deal with the Arab countries, we get their oil as long as we don't halt islam in any way. We basicly got sold out. And yes I got links for that
Kadagar_AV
05-13-2012, 11:29
Easily answered, during the oil crisis in the seventies what was then the EU struck a deal with the Arab countries, we get their oil as long as we don't halt islam in any way. We basicly got sold out. And yes I got links for that
But... Are they valid?
Kadagar_AV
05-13-2012, 11:44
Strike if I may weigh in a little bit on your statement regarding statistical reckoning.... as someone who does stats and stares at excel all day for work I feel the need to point out to you that those numbers differences between each other are more than workable with. The math would be a bother and I would never do it because those two numbers aren't really enough for an accurate assessment but any individual who take a couple semesters of stats in university could do it with some references. The issue would be verifying the reports and dealing with the inevitable outliers.
That being said our dear friend Kadagar's numbers are in fact off. I doubt he took any of the variables you mentioned into account and probably did some basic division across the population parameters and didnt even account for a potential rejection of his hypotheses as well as likely operated under the assumption that the factors would all remain constant throughout the levels of population which of course they would not do.
The number of these immigrant groups (slav (that one hurts my heritage to write), muslim, african) would likely be higher but not that dramatically high of a number. I must say though I also expect rape victims that those kinds of men would find themselves most able to target (other poor immigrants from similar ethnic backgrounds) would be much more likely to under report than ethnic Norwegians.
I based my math on state criminal reports, immigration data, local geographical data and so on...
I think that the very crude base - If I remember the BRÅ report correctly - data states that 0,7 out of 1000 people with Swedish parents are accused of rape, whereas 5,6 out of 1000 who are not borne here are accused of rape.
If you then factor in that the other nordic countries are big immigrant groups, and that we also have western immigration, you have to try to discern what different groups of immigrants are doing.
Asian (as by Frags wonderful definition of Asian) immigrants are, as an example, underrepresented. So some group must pick up that slack.
But... Are they valid?
Yeah this is just about the summary http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/?page_id=49 but you can easily find it, Strassbourgh 1976
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 12:22
Easily answered, during the oil crisis in the seventies what was then the EU struck a deal with the Arab countries, we get their oil as long as we don't halt islam in any way. We basicly got sold out. And yes I got links for that
Ah, the sweet, sweet scent of a paranoid mind....
Ah, the sweet, sweet scent of a paranoid mind....
Take it how you want it but it is very much real, islamisation is a EU project. Kinda a coincidence all of course.
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 12:45
Take it how you want it but it is very much real, islamisation is a EU project. Kinda a coincidence all of course.
Is "positive neutrality" a term you're familiar with, frags?
Is "positive neutrality" a term you're familiar with, frags?
There is nothing passive about Europe's immigration policy. There is even a quotum on how many immigrants are supposed to wash up here. Also check out EAD if you think I don't know my stuff.
Kralizec
05-13-2012, 12:56
1) the EU did not exist in its current form in 1976; it was called the EC
2) the "Parliamentary Association for Euro-Arab Co-operation" was not an initiative from the EC. It just has parliament members from EC member states in it, who don't even represent their entire respective parliaments.
Even if we were to assume that this PAEAC is the EU, and that it had the authority to do what anything you're accusing them of, there's nothing in that declaration that comes close to what you described.
As for that resolution itself, a google search only returns results that have Bat Ye'Or written all over it. Except maybe this one (http://www.medea.be/en/themes/euro-mediterranean-cooperation/euro-arab-parliamentary-dialogue/), which doesn't list a conference in Strasbourg that year.
1) the EU did not exist in its current form in 1976; it was called the EC
2) the "Parliamentary Association for Euro-Arab Co-operation" was not an initiative from the EC. It just has parliament members from EC member states in it, who don't even represent their entire respective parliaments.
Even if we were to assume that this PAEAC is the EU, and that it had the authority to do what anything you're accusing them of, there's nothing in that declaration that comes close to what you described.
As for that resolution itself, a google search only returns results that have Bat Ye'Or written all over it. Except maybe this one (http://www.medea.be/en/themes/euro-mediterranean-cooperation/euro-arab-parliamentary-dialogue/), according to which there wasn't a conference in Strassbourg that year.
I know the EU in didn't exist in the form it does now. Bat Yor is for the full 100% fully sourced by the way, there isn't a hint of a claim she was forced to take back. That you won't find it on your quality media doesn't really surprise me, they are kinda silent about the Euro Stability Mechanism they are going to fistfuck us as well.
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 13:06
There is nothing passive about Europe's immigration policy. There is even a quotum on how many immigrants are supposed to wash up here. Also check out EAD if you think I don't know my stuff.
Ah, you do not know the term. Figures. My question then, is this:
How can you claim to possess a deeper knowledge(one few people are aware of) of the policies of the mid-east in the 70's, when you do not even know about the very basic policies of that time period?
"Positive Neutrality", by the way, is the term given to Nasser's policy(no idea why it hasn't been called "the Nasser Doctrine") that he would cooperate with both blocs, but align himself with none of the two. It was a policy he actively tried to spread among the third world(third world refers to non-aligned countries), and he did manage to spread it to quite a few countries, most important among those is probably the Ba'ath movement.
Kralizec
05-13-2012, 13:07
Bat Yor is for the full 100% fully sourced by the way, there isn't a hint of a claim she was forced to take back.
That means nothing. You never take back anything, yet you are wrong all the time.
InsaneApache
05-13-2012, 13:15
For those in this thread that minimizes or otherwise deflects the issue of immigrants raping children, ponder on this.
A childs life was ruined. Never to be the same again. I have personal experience of this. It never goes away and causes emotional and psychological problems that manifest long after the event. This isn't some academic exercise in a third rate debating society. It's reality.
Hang your heads in shame.
That means nothing. You never take back anything, yet you are wrong all the time.
Can't just decide I am wrong, I would have to say something that isn't true to be wrong. This is the first time you heard about the Euro Stability System by the way isn't it
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 13:36
For those in this thread that minimizes or otherwise deflects the issue of immigrants raping children, ponder on this.
A childs life was ruined. Never to be the same again. I have personal experience of this. It never goes away and causes emotional and psychological problems that manifest long after the event. This isn't some academic exercise in a third rate debating society. It's reality.
Hang your heads in shame.
Nonsense.
Kralizec
05-13-2012, 13:38
No it's not, I've heard and read about it in quality media ~;)
For those in this thread that minimizes or otherwise deflects the issue of immigrants raping children, ponder on this.
A childs life was ruined. Never to be the same again. I have personal experience of this. It never goes away and causes emotional and psychological problems that manifest long after the event. This isn't some academic exercise in a third rate debating society. It's reality.
Hang your heads in shame.
Maybe I've missed a post or two, but I don't recall that anyone here said that child rape isn't bad or anything of the sort. That's not the issue that people are disagreeing with you about.
How about you hang your head in shame for making such a low accusation?
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 13:38
Can't just decide I am wrong, I would have to say something that isn't true to be wrong. This is the first time you heard about the Euro Stability System by the way isn't it
It's a new time for the both of you then; it's Krazilec's first encounter with a random crackpoot theory, and it's your first encounter with basic knowledge. You should do a dance together!
Nonsense.
Sure he is just making it up to rain redicule on your cranbeary meatballs.
Kralizec
05-13-2012, 13:45
It's a new time for the both of you then; it's Krazilec's first encounter with a random crackpoot theory, and it's your first encounter with basic knowledge. You should do a dance together!
My older brother believes in a lot of crackpot theories, and actively tries to convert everyone he knows, me included. It caused a lot of fights in our family; nowadays we usually manage to agree to disagree.
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 13:47
Sure he is just making it up to rain redicule on your cranbeary meatballs.
The appeal to emotions is nonsensical, as I know he would disregard it as "not his problem" if anyone pointed out the massive amounts of abuse and hardship many/most immigrants will be subject to if thrown out of Europe. Like Somali street kids, for example, the group most commonly wanted out of Norway.
People expect me to cry a river over a couple of europeans who get abused, yetthey care absolutely nothing about the tons of somalians who live in hellish conditions.
In short, such an appeal to emotion is pathetic, and more suited to a 15-year old.
My older brother believes in a lot of crackpot theories, and actively tries to convert everyone he knows, me included. It caused a lot of fights in our family; nowadays we usually manage to agree to disagree.
It's perfectly documented, or did your brother claim it wasn't.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-13-2012, 13:51
No it's not, I've heard and read about it in quality media ~;)
Maybe I've missed a post or two, but I don't recall that anyone here said that child rape isn't bad or anything of the sort. That's not the issue that people are disagreeing with you about.
How about you hang your head in shame for making such a low accusation?
This is an issue of immigration because the perpertrators all all immigrants - without our current immigration policies these men would not be here, or would have been forcefully integrated.
The point is - you have unintegrated immigrants in the UK and these immigrants are targeting the native white girls as "other" and basically less than human.
In that context, HoreTore's handwringing alternating with denial looks pretty pathetic.
Nobody's claiming we don't have native perverts - but we have managed to import this particular kind of pervert from outside.
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 13:55
If you can find a way to keep only the "bad" immigrants out, while letting all the "good" ones in, I'll be your campaign manager, believe me.
As such a thing seems impossible, however, I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep the many responsible for the actions of the few.
As an illustration of how ridiculous IA's emotional appeal is, consider the alternative version. Find a happy family, preferably with half a dozen children, where one parents is a native and the other an immigrant. Take a picture of the children with eyes like only innocent children can have, and add a text underneath that goes something along the lines of this:
"If you restrict immigration, my mommy and poppy would never have found love and happiness. I would not exist. Why, Mr. right-winger, don't you want children like me to be born and live a happy life?"
In short, a really, really low cheap shot.
Before or after I kick him in the face, we owe the world nothing
InsaneApache
05-13-2012, 14:19
If you can find a way to keep only the "bad" immigrants out, while letting all the "good" ones in, I'll be your campaign manager, believe me.
As such a thing seems impossible, however, I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep the many responsible for the actions of the few.
As an illustration of how ridiculous IA's emotional appeal is, consider the alternative version. Find a happy family, preferably with half a dozen children, where one parents is a native and the other an immigrant. Take a picture of the children with eyes like only innocent children can have, and add a text underneath that goes something along the lines of this:
"If you restrict immigration, my mommy and poppy would never have found love and happiness. I would not exist. Why, Mr. right-winger, don't you want children like me to be born and live a happy life?"
In short, a really, really low cheap shot.
The point is that these immigrants were not investigated properly for fear of committing offence. THAT is a direct result of left driven political correctness. If the police hadn't been kowtowed they would have done their job properly regardless of skin colour and creed.
Still find it ridiculous?
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 14:25
The point is that these immigrants were not investigated properly for fear of committing offence. THAT is a direct result of left driven political correctness. If the police hadn't been kowtowed they would have done their job properly regardless of skin colour and creed.
Still find it ridiculous?
The point is that that particular accusation is a paranoid delusion without basis in reality.
The fact is that the police caught them, they were convicted and they were given a harsher sentence because of the culture you claim the police are forced to protect.
InsaneApache
05-13-2012, 14:35
The point is that that particular accusation is a paranoid delusion without basis in reality.
The fact is that the police caught them, they were convicted and they were given a harsher sentence because of the culture you claim the police are forced to protect.
Nope. Reality.
There have been reports of this sort of behaviour for years. Nothing was done about it and it was swept under the carpet. A Labour MP raised concerns about the lack of action five years or more ago in the House of Commons. There was a police investigation in Leeds earlier in the last decade that was quietly dropped.
Reality? Are you sure what it is?
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-13-2012, 14:35
If you can find a way to keep only the "bad" immigrants out, while letting all the "good" ones in, I'll be your campaign manager, believe me.
As such a thing seems impossible, however, I see absolutely no reason whatsoever to keep the many responsible for the actions of the few.
As an illustration of how ridiculous IA's emotional appeal is, consider the alternative version. Find a happy family, preferably with half a dozen children, where one parents is a native and the other an immigrant. Take a picture of the children with eyes like only innocent children can have, and add a text underneath that goes something along the lines of this:
"If you restrict immigration, my mommy and poppy would never have found love and happiness. I would not exist. Why, Mr. right-winger, don't you want children like me to be born and live a happy life?"
In short, a really, really low cheap shot.
This isn't about keeping people out, it's about what we do with them when they get here - and the side issue of whether they should be allowed to stay.
These men saw a fundamental difference between white girls and girls of their own ethnic/religious group. Worse, the group they single out is the native one which implies something about the way they see the rest of us.
This is a problem of lack of integration - while the white majority is encouraged to see everyone without regard to race or creed the minority groups coming in look down on our children because they are white.
These immigrants are inherrently racist - and I doubt the perverts are the only ones, just the most exploitative.
That is the problem.
Having said all that, we could restrict immigration based on economic circumstances - if your country's economy is in the toilet and you are coming over here to be a waiter, no dice, we don't need to import kitchen staff. On the other hand, if you're coming over to be a software engineer or a surgeon, or a chemist - please, feel welcome.
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 14:38
This isn't about keeping people out, it's about what we do with them when they get here - and the side issue of whether they should be allowed to stay.
These men saw a fundamental difference between white girls and girls of their own ethnic/religious group. Worse, the group they single out is the native one which implies something about the way they see the rest of us.
This is a problem of lack of integration - while the white majority is encouraged to see everyone without regard to race or creed the minority groups coming in look down on our children because they are white.
These immigrants are inherrently racist - and I doubt the perverts are the only ones, just the most exploitative.
That is the problem.
Having said all that, we could restrict immigration based on economic circumstances - if your country's economy is in the toilet and you are coming over here to be a waiter, no dice, we don't need to import kitchen staff. On the other hand, if you're coming over to be a software engineer or a surgeon, or a chemist - please, feel welcome.
That's your stance, one I haven't been arguing against.
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 14:39
Nope. Reality.
There have been reports of this sort of behaviour for years. Nothing was done about it and it was swept under the carpet. A Labour MP raised concerns about the lack of action five years or more ago in the House of Commons. There was a police investigation in Leeds earlier in the last decade that was quietly dropped.
Reality? Are you sure what it is?
How many times do I have to repeat the fact that these men were caught, sentenced and given additional penalty because of their "culture"?
InsaneApache
05-13-2012, 14:45
They were allowed to get away with it for years.
Reverse the roles.
A gang of BNP skinheads went around 'grooming' young asian lasses, plying them with drink and passing them around like a bong. Do you really believe that nothing would be done for the best part of a decade?
A chance to stop the gang was missed in 2008 by the police and the Crown Prosecution Service who have apologised for failings. The Independent Police Complaints Commission is spearheading an investigation into the botched inquiry.
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/at-a-glance/main-section/asian-child-sex-gang-gets-up-to-19-years-jail-1-4531005
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-13-2012, 14:55
How many times do I have to repeat the fact that these men were caught, sentenced and given additional penalty because of their "culture"?
The issue was first raised in 2002, a report was passed to the Police in 2005 - they were not arrested until 2010, no operation was underway to investigate the issue until 2009.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9254982/Rochdale-grooming-trial-police-knew-about-sex-abuse-in-2002-but-failed-to-act.html
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18005266
(http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-18005266)http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-17853560
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9253712/Members-of-paedophile-gang-to-be-sentenced.html
There is an IPCC investigation on-going, this is an acknowledged issue now.
While we're here, let's look at this guy: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9252003/Rochdale-grooming-trial-Mohammed-Shafiq-the-campaigner-who-stood-up-to-the-abusers.html
He says it's a cultural problem - and presumably he's qualified to offer that opinion - but he also says it's not about religion or Pakistani culture - it's about how they see white girls.
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 15:10
That is, unfortunately, how sexual abuse is usually handled. They usually takes years, this case is rather normal. In cases involving minors, the norm is that nothing is done until the victims are well into their 20's, if indeed anything ever happens.
Thetheory about being overly sensitive to culture is simply an explanation which fits an existing negative view on immigrants, nothing more.
Water under the bridge.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-13-2012, 15:14
That is, unfortunately, how sexual abuse is usually handled. They usually takes years, this case is rather normal. In cases involving minors, the norm is that nothing is done until the victims are well into their 20's, if indeed anything ever happens.
Thetheory about being overly sensitive to culture is simply an explanation which fits an existing negative view on immigrants, nothing more.
Water under the bridge.
I dissagree - your paradigm is flawed, because abuse that happened 30 years ago was covered up because that was the "done" thing - the institional abuse in Plymouth at a toddler group was acted on relatively swiftly once it was discovered - not after a decade or so.
Even more turmoil in Oslo today. Traffic jammed for hours, all because of someone who really doesn't belong there. Police had no other choice than shooting it as he was on fire.
Wth is a moose doing the middle of Oslo hehe
InsaneApache
05-13-2012, 16:00
That is, unfortunately, how sexual abuse is usually handled. They usually takes years, this case is rather normal. In cases involving minors, the norm is that nothing is done until the victims are well into their 20's, if indeed anything ever happens.
Thetheory about being overly sensitive to culture is simply an explanation which fits an existing negative view on immigrants, nothing more.
Water under the bridge.
The police didn't want to investigate in case fingers were wagged and pointed with accusations of racism. It's been like this since the Macpherson report. Probably the most damaging rotten report ever commissioned by Parliament. The idea that racism is in your head and not that of the other is Kafkaesque.
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 20:10
I dissagree - your paradigm is flawed, because abuse that happened 30 years ago was covered up because that was the "done" thing - the institional abuse in Plymouth at a toddler group was acted on relatively swiftly once it was discovered - not after a decade or so.
Sadly, that Plymouth incident you refer to is the exception.
Find the statistic for number of people convicted of rape. Then compare that to the estimated number of rapes per year. The stats are horrible.
The only unusual thing about this case, is that someone were actually convicted. The majority of rapes are simply not reported. The majority of the rapes who are reported, end up being dropped. The majority of those who do end up in court doesn't get a conviction. That's the state of sexual crime.
That's what should be discussed, not crackpot theories from fascists.
Being called a fascist is kinda becomming a badge of honour really, mentally block problem all you want, changes nada. It's a typical leftist mistake to confuse how they want things to be and what simply is. And what simply is is that white girls are targeted by muslim immigrants.
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 20:27
Being called a fascist is kinda becomming a badge of honour really, mentally block problem all you want, changes nada. It's a typical leftist mistake to confuse how they want things to be and what simply is. And what simply is is that white girls are targeted by muslim immigrants.
That was the case here, according to the judge who gave them a harder punishment because of it.
That was the case here, according to the judge who gave them a harder punishment because of it.
They weren't exactly in a hurry to do so. There is an underlying problem here that simply needs to be adressed and that problem is muslim immigrants having absolutely no respect for western women, seeing them as whores that can be snatched at will. If you say that isn't a problem I really don't know what to say. If that makes me a fascist fine, it doesn't insult me in the slightest because I know how much it's worth.
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 20:54
They weren't exactly in a hurry to do so. There is an underlying problem here that simply needs to be adressed and that problem is muslim immigrants having absolutely no respect for western women, seeing them as whores that can be snatched at will. If you say that isn't a problem I really don't know what to say. If that makes me a fascist fine, it doesn't insult me in the slightest because I know how much it's worth.
I suggest you reread the thread.
I suggest you reread the thread.
I umderstand your position, they got trialed and sentenced. Looks good but only on the surface, the attitude towards women is in need of a serious overhaul in some communities. Sexual harrasment is a horrible thing, and rape is the worst of humiliations. It happens way too much and it are way too often men from a certain background.
I am not out for the muslims, just not looking away either.
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 21:10
I umderstand your position, they got trialed and sentenced. Looks good but only on the surface, the attitude towards women is in need of a serious overhaul in some communities. Sexual harrasment is a horrible thing, and rape is the worst of humiliations. It happens way too much and it are way too often men from a certain background.
I am not out for the muslims, just not looking away either.
I am fully in favour of more feminism, and I know it's urgently needed among immigrants. We also need to be better at handling sexual crimes.
What I have a problem with in this thread is the nonsensical, completely unfounded and ridiculous accusation being made.
Kralizec
05-13-2012, 21:13
There have been reports of this sort of behaviour for years. Nothing was done about it and it was swept under the carpet. A Labour MP raised concerns about the lack of action five years or more ago in the House of Commons.?
And again: the only source for the accusation is Ann Cryer's words, and they were recently uttered apparently.
I am fully in favour of more feminism, and I know it's urgently needed among immigrants. We also need to be better at handling sexual crimes.
What I have a problem with in this thread is the nonsensical, completely unfounded and ridiculous accusation being made.
Not unfounded it is your own police saying it. That's the rape part but the sad part is that women got kinda used to getting harrased, women dye their hair, don't wear skirts anymore. It's just racism. White women aren't the only victims, pregnant Marrocan women was attacked last week by 5 screwups because she was walking with a black, kicked the lights of her baby out. I think you mean well but don't really know what you are talking about.
Kralizec
05-13-2012, 21:20
26 march, actually.
26 march, actually.
Congratulations it's a fact. My bad it was reported last week
HoreTore
05-13-2012, 21:35
Not unfounded it is your own police saying it. That's the rape part but the sad part is that women got kinda used to getting harrased, women dye their hair, don't wear skirts anymore. It's just racism. White women aren't the only victims, pregnant Marrocan women was attacked last week by 5 screwups because she was walking with a black, kicked the lights of her baby out. I think you mean well but don't really know what you are talking about.
The accusation I referred to was not your misunderstanding of statistics and failure to read statements, but rather the one in the thread title.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-13-2012, 21:50
Sadly, that Plymouth incident you refer to is the exception.
Find the statistic for number of people convicted of rape. Then compare that to the estimated number of rapes per year. The stats are horrible.
The only unusual thing about this case, is that someone were actually convicted. The majority of rapes are simply not reported. The majority of the rapes who are reported, end up being dropped. The majority of those who do end up in court doesn't get a conviction. That's the state of sexual crime.
That's what should be discussed, not crackpot theories from fascists.
We are talking about under-age rape by an organised ring of abusers - a very distinct type of rape which is much easier to detect and prosecute than your communal-garden rape which tends to happen within relationships and involve both parties being intoxicated.
I've seen the statistics - I don't entirely buy into the standard interpretattion because they ignore that A: a proportion of rape reports will be malicious, and afterwards retracted or fall apart, and B: a proportion will be simply impossible to prove one way or the other, likely because the act was not itself clear cut. Added to that, unreported rapes are just that - unreported. If 1 in 4 or 1 in 3 women are "survivors" then at least 1 in 6 men much be rapists, and I frankly don't buy that.
InsaneApache
05-14-2012, 05:48
Trevor Phillips, the chair of the Equality and Human Rights Commission, said the fact that the men convicted were Asian and their victims white could not be ignored.
He expressed concern that the men came from closed communities which may have turned a blind eye to what was happening - either out of fear or because the girls concerned were from a different community.
And he said it would be a national scandal if it turned out the authorities had failed to intervene to protect the children because of fears that it would lead to the "demonisation" of the Asian community.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9263006/Rochdale-grooming-case-Trevor-Phillips-insists-race-relevant.html
Furunculus
05-14-2012, 09:43
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9263006/Rochdale-grooming-case-Trevor-Phillips-insists-race-relevant.html
he might be right, but i really don't care about the racial element.
what matters to me is that we are continueing to import, and incubate, cultures which appear to have a vastly higher proclivity to violent and socially divisive crime.
first principles: is the welfare and wellbeing of her majesty's subjects being advanced by this activity?
Ironside
05-14-2012, 20:09
I umderstand your position, they got trialed and sentenced. Looks good but only on the surface, the attitude towards women is in need of a serious overhaul in some communities. Sexual harrasment is a horrible thing, and rape is the worst of humiliations. It happens way too much and it are way too often men from a certain background.
I am not out for the muslims, just not looking away either.
You would probably do better by not going for the Muslim angle at all. It's not because they Muslims, it's because they've got backward traditions. Christian minorities are about as bad if coming from the same area, and Muslims from other areas aren't a problem.
It's way more accurate and is harder to make a counter argument about.
Kadagar_AV
05-14-2012, 20:37
You would probably do better by not going for the Muslim angle at all. It's not because they Muslims, it's because they've got backward traditions. Christian minorities are about as bad if coming from the same area, and Muslims from other areas aren't a problem.
It's way more accurate and is harder to make a counter argument about.
But... Backward tradition and religion, isn't that kind of the same thing?
The secular Iranians who came to Sweden during the cultural revolution has done well here, the muslim Iranians who has come lately - not so much.
Rhyfelwyr
05-14-2012, 20:44
But... Backward tradition and religion, isn't that kind of the same thing?
The secular Iranians who came to Sweden during the cultural revolution has done well here, the muslim Iranians who has come lately - not so much.
Well religion isn't inherently backward, at some points in history it could be seen as quite a progressive force (as much as I dislike the terms 'backward' and 'progressive', but you know what I mean).
It just so happens that Muslim immigrants happen to follow a religion (or at least an interpretation of it) that demands that they adhere to principles that we might find barbaric and repulsive.
Kadagar_AV
05-14-2012, 21:15
Well religion isn't inherently backward, at some points in history it could be seen as quite a progressive force (as much as I dislike the terms 'backward' and 'progressive', but you know what I mean).
It just so happens that Muslim immigrants happen to follow a religion (or at least an interpretation of it) that demands that they adhere to principles that we might find barbaric and repulsive.
My bad, "religion" was a poor choice of word. I should have been more specified.
Some religions are not.
However, you know that I have a hard time seeing a muslim or a christian and think they are not backwards. "Backwards" as in basing their lives around books written several hundred years ago.
You are of course right that both religions started out as progressive movements, but once they held a position of power the progression quickly died, no?
However, you know that I have a hard time seeing a muslim or a christian and think they are not backwards. "Backwards" as in basing their lives around books written several hundred years ago.
Works of Archimedes are thousands of years old, that does not make them backward.
Kadagar_AV
05-14-2012, 21:28
Works of Archimedes are thousands of years old, that does not make them backward.
Well, he was a scientist. He took his field of study further, and he could prove every step of his academical path. Scientists today still revise his work, and try to better it (as with PI).
So yes, of course he is not invalid just because he died several hundred years ago, as his work hold up to modern scrutiny. PI is still PI, and Archimedes himself would probably applaud the people who question his work and try to make it better.
That is not the same as a guy writing something about virgin birth, and then his followers being ready to go to extremes against anyone questioning it.
A slight difference, no?
HoreTore
05-14-2012, 21:34
Works of Archimedes are thousands of years old, that does not make them backward.
If you make Archimedes work alone the basis for everything you do in life, then yes, that would be backwards.
If you make Archimedes work alone the basis for everything you do in life, then yes, that would be backwards.
Do Christians base their life solely on the Bible?
HoreTore
05-14-2012, 21:42
Do Christians base their life solely on the Bible?
Some do, most don't.
Some do, most don't.
Which means that most aren't backward by this logic.
HoreTore
05-14-2012, 21:45
Which means that most aren't backward by this logic.
Never said they were.
Rhyfelwyr
05-14-2012, 21:47
However, you know that I have a hard time seeing a muslim or a christian and think they are not backwards. "Backwards" as in basing their lives around books written several hundred years ago.
I understand that. I guess it just depends on what parts of the Bible you are talking about. Refusing to make clothing out of a mixture of wool and linen would seem a bit silly nowadays.
On the other hand at least some of the ideas of marriage and things like that can surely still be relevant to contemporary life?
You are of course right that both religions started out as progressive movements, but once they held a position of power the progression quickly died, no?
But isn't this just a feature of any ideology or group that takes power? They can either try to hold onto power by maintaining the status quo, or they can try to stay relevant by adapting and going with the flow. Religious institutions have done both these things, even the Catholic Church adapted in response to the Reformation.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-14-2012, 21:50
My bad, "religion" was a poor choice of word. I should have been more specified.
Some religions are not.
However, you know that I have a hard time seeing a muslim or a christian and think they are not backwards. "Backwards" as in basing their lives around books written several hundred years ago.
You are of course right that both religions started out as progressive movements, but once they held a position of power the progression quickly died, no?
I think that you can't really look at religions as "regressive" when much of what their founders were railing against is mirrored in modern society. Jesus was basically setting himself against a culture which valued money and material possesions and glorified sex and violence.
That could just as easily describe Western culture today.
As an athetic and moral and spritual teacher the figure of Jesus is just as relevent today as it was then, and the circumstances of his birth are no more or less credible.
The problem with the concept of "progression" is that it concieves of civilisation traveling a line from start to finsih, and the further along the line we are the better our society. That kind of view took hold in the Renaissance and in philosophy and history it has been fairly well ripped to shreds - but it persists in the popular imagination.
I think there is definately a debate to be had about how we deal with sex in the West, especially in the Anglo-Sphere, but also now in the Franco-Sphere after the Strass-Kahn scandals.
I have to say, as a student of intellectual history that much of what is touted as "revolutionary" today has been done to death before, and if these "philosophers" had actually read their predecessors they would not waste quite so much time trying to re-invent the wheel.
Having said all that, I don't think the problem here is that these men are Muslim, I think the problem is how they view non-Muslims in a non-Muslim country (the UK).
One thing you see with these immigrant communities is how incredibly touchy and insecure some parts of them can be. The London bombings, for example, were as much an expression of cultural angst as they were any kind of political statement.
Kadagar_AV
05-14-2012, 22:06
I think that you can't really look at religions as "regressive" when much of what their founders were railing against is mirrored in modern society. Jesus was basically setting himself against a culture which valued money and material possesions and glorified sex and violence.
That could just as easily describe Western culture today.
This might be one of the best Christian arguments I have seen in my life.
Rhy, Philips, I will answer you as soon as I have the time to do it properly :)
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-14-2012, 22:16
This might be one of the best Christian arguments I have seen in my life.
Rhy, Philips, I will answer you as soon as I have the time to do it properly :)
I come here to practice, nice to know it's recognised.
I should also say that you are fundamentally correct in that many religions, perhaps especially Christianity, do handle power well - a faith which originated with slaves and vagrant preachers doesn't sit well with Emperors.
rory_20_uk
05-14-2012, 22:28
...And was brought to prominence by Constantine, who then moved the religion to be centred in Rome. Who then picked the whole hierarchy.
Christianity can be about God, but the higher churches (a misnomer if ever there was one) are far more focused on money, power and control.
~:smoking:
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-14-2012, 22:40
...And was brought to prominence by Constantine, who then moved the religion to be centred in Rome. Who then picked the whole hierarchy.
About 0% of that is statistically correct.
Constantine, if anything, "moved" it to Constantinople, he could not "bring it to prominence" because it was already so prominent he basiaclly needed to convert to secure the Empire and he had absolutely no way to choose the "whole hierarchy" because there wasn't one.
The only thing Constantine could, and did, do was evict Bishops from the cities containing their Sees - which was not really an effective tool for shutting them up, it didn't stop Athanasius, it didn't even stop Arrian.
I'll just say one thing and leave it at that: not everything Muslims do is Islamic. That'll be all.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-14-2012, 23:08
I'll just say one thing and leave it at that: not everything Muslims do is Islamic. That'll be all.
Fair enough, but if their identity as Muslims causes them to set themselves apart from majority "Christians", is that Islamic?
Major Robert Dump
05-14-2012, 23:19
Wouldn't this whole absurd debate we all know the answer to come to a swift end were we able to produce some examples of muslim men raping uslim women in manners that do not include family honor/debt type incidents. Like, how many incidents in the UK are there where muslim men rape muslim women for the sake of jollies?
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-15-2012, 00:06
Wouldn't this whole absurd debate we all know the answer to come to a swift end were we able to produce some examples of muslim men raping uslim women in manners that do not include family honor/debt type incidents. Like, how many incidents in the UK are there where muslim men rape muslim women for the sake of jollies?
None reported?
One of the articles I linked to is a Muslim activist and one of the ings he said was, "Asian girls aren't available to them".
Kralizec
05-15-2012, 01:04
Wouldn't this whole absurd debate we all know the answer to come to a swift end were we able to produce some examples of muslim men raping uslim women in manners that do not include family honor/debt type incidents. Like, how many incidents in the UK are there where muslim men rape muslim women for the sake of jollies?
I don't think there are any stats that can answer your question. But assuming your point is: "are muslims less inclined to rape a muslim woman than a native European?"
There's no doubt in my mind that these people, or more probably their parents, originate from a backwards culture. Pakistan presumably has evolved socially since they left, but that went by them completely because they don't live there, and since they didn't integrate into their new country's culture very well, they essentially fossilized into the backwardsness they were in when they left their country of origin. I say that because this pretty much applies to the Dutch-Turkish community - quite often they came from the most underdeveloped parts of Turkey; and while Turkey nowadays is the poster-child for the "islamic countries can be civilized, too" argument, some of our ethnically turkish population is significantly less "enlightened" than that (allthough to their credit, Turks in the Netherlands generally cause less trouble than Morrocans)
No doubt that the pedophiles in the OP didn't respect women, or girls very much. But then again, I doubt that rapists and/or pedophiles in general do. They specifically targeted white girls, which to me suggests that either:
A) they thought that Allah would send them to hell for raping an underage muslim girl out of wedlock, but thought that doing the same to white non-muslim girls would be halal
B) girls from their own ethnic background are less available and more difficult to groom
C) they feared social backlash and stigma if they did this to their "own community", and thought that police attention was less likely if they targeted white girls
Personally I'm guessing a combination of B and C.
In any case, apart from how terrible this incident is, most of the outrage here seems to be at the as-of-yet unsubstantiated claim that the police decided years ago they shouldn't investigate this case because they feared someone might cry "racist!". I'm no fan of the so called multicultural ideology, but I simply don't buy that accusation when there's nothing to back that up.
Kadagar_AV
05-15-2012, 02:11
MRD, that is not fair.
A muslim girl can, as I have understood it, not be raped.
If she has sex with someone she should not, it just means that the men responsible for her hasn't been controlling/protecting her enough, no?
Major Robert Dump
05-15-2012, 04:21
MRD, that is not fair.
A muslim girl can, as I have understood it, not be raped.
If she has sex with someone she should not, it just means that the men responsible for her hasn't been controlling/protecting her enough, no?
On one hand, yes, and if there are muslim-on-muslim rapes (that dont involve honer/revenge) then many of them don't get reported. I am leaving out the honor/revenge rapes because in most cases a non-muslim would not be a victim of such a thing so we remove it from the argument altogether since it is, in some cirlces, socially acceptable to punish women in this manner.
So yes, this can be considered a valid point, however, not every victim of muslim-on-muslim rape is going to come from a hard-line family that would keep it hush, and even if they did, I am sure there would be girls who depart from their family on these matters....
My point is that surely there are some examples of muslim men raping muslim women. There has to be in order to facilitate the idea that the victims in the OP crime were not chosen based on race/culture. I don't for a second by that it was just because they were easier victims to isolate. While this may be true, these guys also know that if they rape a muslim they would never even amke it to trial, and they have a fear of god that does not extend to victimizing infidels.
Show me the muslim rapes
Kadagar_AV
05-15-2012, 04:34
Word.
I was just strengthening your point :yes:
Major Robert Dump
05-15-2012, 04:54
I know. And I was stating that even with the cultural taboo of rape, some muslim girl somewhere in that country has to have had reported a rape at the hands of a muslim aggressor..... surely. Otherwise, it is obvious what is going on
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-15-2012, 10:06
I know. And I was stating that even with the cultural taboo of rape, some muslim girl somewhere in that country has to have had reported a rape at the hands of a muslim aggressor..... surely. Otherwise, it is obvious what is going on
They just get labled sluts and married off - there have been a few women who have subsequently come forward under condition of anonymity.
Ironside
05-15-2012, 18:43
But... Backward tradition and religion, isn't that kind of the same thing?
The secular Iranians who came to Sweden during the cultural revolution has done well here, the muslim Iranians who has come lately - not so much.
And how many of those sucular Iranians are Muslim enough to be insulted by being bundled together with some backward tribalists?
Religion in those regions are also some kind of halfway thing. Rather than being very religious, they're being religious because they haven't experienced anything else. The real fundamentalists are a different breed, even if they can recruit easiest from those regions.
No doubt that the pedophiles in the OP didn't respect women, or girls very much. But then again, I doubt that rapists and/or pedophiles in general do. They specifically targeted white girls, which to me suggests that either:
A) they thought that Allah would send them to hell for raping an underage muslim girl out of wedlock, but thought that doing the same to white non-muslim girls would be halal
B) girls from their own ethnic background are less available and more difficult to groom
C) they feared social backlash and stigma if they did this to their "own community", and thought that police attention was less likely if they targeted white girls
Personally I'm guessing a combination of B and C.
In any case, apart from how terrible this incident is, most of the outrage here seems to be at the as-of-yet unsubstantiated claim that the police decided years ago they shouldn't investigate this case because they feared someone might cry "racist!". I'm no fan of the so called multicultural ideology, but I simply don't buy that accusation when there's nothing to back that up.
It has rather to do with excusing themself with madonna and whore mechanisms. Since white girls are sexually liberated, they have to be whores and whores are worthless people you can do anything with. And that their cultural manly role is threatened by equal and independent women, making them less than men (you can see men who are feeling this even native Scandinavians occationally) and that they aren't exactly the most successful people, they try to be successful by very basic and pathetic means of dominance and oppression.
Backwards as heck.
I'm curious for what the Koran talks about female and female sexuality and it's consequences for their social status. Something for our residental Koran expert perhaps?
I'm curious for what the Koran talks about female and female sexuality and it's consequences for their social status. Something for our residental Koran expert perhaps?
Well, I never read the Qur'an in its entirety, as I don't find it all that interesting, and I don't think there are any experts on tafsir here anyway, so yeah. I might try to find something about it.
Also, you should probably realise that the Qur'an on its own isn't sufficient in order to live a life in which religion is integrated into most aspects of your daily life. For that there are hadith (plural ahadith), but they are tricky in more than one way.
EDIT: Also, rape is a no-go area. There's no difference here between Muslims and non-Muslims. The classical interpretation is that rapists should be stoned to death.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-15-2012, 22:26
EDIT: Also, rape is a no-go area. There's no difference here between Muslims and non-Muslims. The classical interpretation is that rapists should be stoned to death.
Not true - it's not rape if you are in an urban area and no one discovers you, because she obviously didn't cry out - which means she must have consented.
That's a Judaeo-Islamic one, that.
Funnily enough, that edict functions on a paradigm similar to the Western one where the welfare of all women is the concern of all men.
Did you misunderstand me? I said that rape is punishable by death. Whether or not a situation constitutes rape is not something I discussed, all I'm saying that if someone is convicted of rape, he is to be stoned.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-15-2012, 23:12
Did you misunderstand me? I said that rape is punishable by death. Whether or not a situation constitutes rape is not something I discussed, all I'm saying that if someone is convicted of rape, he is to be stoned.
I'm sorry, yes you are correct.
I should have been more specific - the point I was making was in relation to this case, in an urban setting, and how the perpetrators (and perhaps some in their community) might see the situation.
I.e. the fact that these white girls don't immidiately scream blue murder makes them sluts.
Did you misunderstand me? I said that rape is punishable by death. Whether or not a situation constitutes rape is not something I discussed, all I'm saying that if someone is convicted of rape, he is to be stoned.
If the victim has at least 3 Male witnisses (or was it five) it's 5:30 here and I need coffee, I am out of it. But if she doesn't have witnisses she will be killed or forced to marry. But that's in arabland not here
Major Robert Dump
05-16-2012, 05:45
So the offending parties who are still "believers" change the definition of rape and magic! it's not rape, just as the offending parties who practice homosexuality change the definition of homosexuality and magic! it's not gay.
I also seem to recall qoran passages where guidelines are laid forth is dealing with the looted/captured belongings of the enemy. Again, not syaing these guys were waging a holy war, but if one were willing one could fit the rapage of an infidel into that acceptable definition. I seem to recall a few years ago when a giant debate erupted amongst the fundies about sexual activity during Ramadan, and there was quite a colorful debate about what did and did not constitute masterbation and sexual activity, and some of the moderates tho poked fun at this debate were murdered. People will always try to find a way around the rules, just look at the catholics
I thought I would bump this thread with more stories of wealthy muslim men abusing and exploiting young poor white girls. This example is sadly much bigger than we thought. It's not just confined to a small corner of northern England:
Muslims Traffick White Christian girls in multi-million dollar industry of exploitation (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18144333)
I might have got my races and religions mixed up. If so, please forgive - but I thought the matter of exploitation was more important than giving the muzzers a kicking... eh? What do you mean it wasn't?
I guess that changes everything! I heard eskimo's build iglo's that's just cold imho
Vladimir
05-22-2012, 18:25
I thought I would bump this thread with more stories of wealthy muslim men abusing and exploiting young poor white girls. This example is sadly much bigger than we thought. It's not just confined to a small corner of northern England:
Muslims Traffick White Christian girls in multi-million dollar industry of exploitation (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-18144333)
I might have got my races and religions mixed up. If so, please forgive - but I thought the matter of exploitation was more important than giving the muzzers a kicking... eh? What do you mean it wasn't?
Looks like I waited until the appropriate moment to roll my eyes.
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-22-2012, 22:49
So what's your point?It happens to non-white women?Anyone here not know that?No? OK?Maybe we should talk about all the Muslim mem and women murdering their daughters for participating in Western culture instead.Another case is being tried as we speak.
Major Robert Dump
05-22-2012, 23:38
With all due respect, Idaho, we are not giving a free pass to non-muslim criminals of this type.
The free pass, it seems, tends to come from the left in regards to things muslims say and do. Even here in the states, while we openly lambast christians and jehovas and catholics and baptists and scientologists, if you make some comments about muslims oh no you are a racist. All I ask is that everyone plays by the same set of rules and uses the same standards, and if these men chose these girls specifically because they were NOT muslim, then this issue needs to be addressed as it reflects a very real and dangerous line of thinking
Doesn't the fact that you can openly say just about anywhere (which is what happens) that you can't criticise Islam kind of telling of the fact that you can and indeed should criticise Islam?
Major Robert Dump
05-23-2012, 03:50
I don't know what you mean by "just about anywhere." It certainly doesn't come from the run-of-the-mill US news agencies or pundits, and just because I can doesn't mean I won't be labeled as a racist prick for doing so. Not mutually exclusive, the two. This goes far deeper than just the topic at hand, in regards to american journalism, who has taken to leaving out the race and ethnicity of crime suspects in news stories where it is completely relevant, in an effort to promote "diversity."
Basically, Hax, I want to see Islam treated in pop culture and news reporting the same way the other religions are, and I want to see muslims suck it up and take it
What do you mean by race and ethnicity?
Also, to what extent is this actually true? I mean, especially with the idea that we have of America is that you can say anything anywhere all the time, so do you have any situations in which it's evident that media outlets avoid mentioning Islam and/or Muslims?
With all due respect, Idaho, we are not giving a free pass to non-muslim criminals of this type.
The free pass, it seems, tends to come from the left in regards to things muslims say and do. Even here in the states, while we openly lambast christians and jehovas and catholics and baptists and scientologists, if you make some comments about muslims oh no you are a racist. All I ask is that everyone plays by the same set of rules and uses the same standards, and if these men chose these girls specifically because they were NOT muslim, then this issue needs to be addressed as it reflects a very real and dangerous line of thinking
I don't think muslim criminals get any more of a free ride than christian ones. The point is that many on this board want to make the case that muslim criminal = islam is fundamentally evil; christian criminal = individual bad apple.
The truth is neither of these.
InsaneApache
05-23-2012, 10:57
I don't think muslim criminals get any more of a free ride than christian ones.
Unfortunately that's exactly what happened. They did get a free ride because of their ethnicity/culture/religion. It's not acceptable. Is it?
I guess that changes everything! I heard eskimo's build iglo's that's just cold imho
:laugh4:
With all due respect, Idaho, we are not giving a free pass to non-muslim criminals of this type.
The free pass, it seems, tends to come from the left in regards to things muslims say and do. Even here in the states, while we openly lambast christians and jehovas and catholics and baptists and scientologists, if you make some comments about muslims oh no you are a racist. All I ask is that everyone plays by the same set of rules and uses the same standards, and if these men chose these girls specifically because they were NOT muslim, then this issue needs to be addressed as it reflects a very real and dangerous line of thinking
Agree completly with this.
HoreTore
05-23-2012, 11:41
Unfortunately that's exactly what happened. They did get a free ride because of their ethnicity/culture/religion. It's not acceptable. Is it?
....says a couple of random commentators. The facts, however, state that they were caught, tried and convicted, with additional penalty.
But, because the commentators speaks to IA's existing prejudices, he easily disregards the facts in this case.
The point is that many on this board want to make the case that muslim criminal = islam is fundamentally evil; christian criminal = individual bad apple.
Oh. And where might that be
InsaneApache
05-23-2012, 12:56
....says a couple of random commentators. The facts, however, state that they were caught, tried and convicted, with additional penalty.
But, because the commentators speaks to IA's existing prejudices, he easily disregards the facts in this case.
Hmmmm...I'd say it's more people who think like you that are prejudiced.
Major Robert Dump
05-23-2012, 18:39
What do you mean by race and ethnicity?
Also, to what extent is this actually true? I mean, especially with the idea that we have of America is that you can say anything anywhere all the time, so do you have any situations in which it's evident that media outlets avoid mentioning Islam and/or Muslims?
Alright. Look dude. Once upon a time, when I was in college, a new trend was taking hold in local newspapers and univeristy curriculum that advocated leaving the race of SUSPECTS out of crime stories. This was a touchy feely way of being politically correct. They said the race was not relevant. They backed this up by saying the naked eye can be wrong about race, and that a guy described as hispanic could really be arab.
All of that is garbage. When running a crime story where the susepct is STILL AT LARGE, advertising the color/race of the person is as important as what he was wearing, the color of the car, the time of day etc. The public service is negated by running the story without this info. Who cares if I say "arab" and he turns out to be indian. We are trying to solve a crime. They will stop the brown guy. OR the aian guy. Or the white guy.
This trend has taken hold at the local level. No, it's not 100%, but the fact that some outlets do it is highly disturbing.
How does this relate to muslims? Because stories of honor killings will be reported as a homicide. Thats it, a "domectic dispute." Nevermind the the people involved were muslim, or immigrants, or that is was a religious family dispute. Lets call it a "homicide." Meanwhile, the homicide up the street that didn't involve the cause celebe minority will have a story with all sorts of juicy details that some might call irrelevant, or that some might call as relevant as the family in the honor killing being muslim. Again, not 100% all the time, but the mere fact that certain agencies choose to willingly omit this information is disturbing. Imagine taking the Catholic church out of the serial molestation debacle, and just calling the priests "community leaders."
Philippus Flavius Homovallumus
05-23-2012, 21:21
....says a couple of random commentators. The facts, however, state that they were caught, tried and convicted, with additional penalty.
But, because the commentators speaks to IA's existing prejudices, he easily disregards the facts in this case.
You mean the local MP and the Muslim activist?
Hardly "random" commentators.
That is not all we are discussing - we are also discussing the fact that these Muslim men picked white girls deliberately.
Kralizec
05-23-2012, 21:30
You mean the local MP and the Muslim activist?
Hardly "random" commentators.
That is not all we are discussing - we are also discussing the fact that these Muslim men picked white girls deliberately.
Former MP from a neighbouring constituency, actually. I never read anything or anybody else corroborating the statement, so who's the muslim activist?
Hmmmm...I'd say it's more people who think like you that are prejudiced.
Debating lefties is like pranking your girfriend they just don't get it.
Shaka_Khan
05-24-2012, 02:06
For a moment, I thought that the punishment for rape in a certain Asian country was to be locked up in a room with an elephant.
HoreTore
05-24-2012, 06:43
Hmmmm...I'd say it's more people who think like you that are prejudiced.
Yes, of course I am. That's why in this case, I disregard the obvious proven facts and turn to hearsay and commentary when explaining this case. No wait, that was you.
The sad fact is that England(yes, that means you english, not the EU or immigrantsor anyone else) has created a society where girls and women have very little protection from sexual and domestic violence. That's something the right doesn't want to discuss, so they blow up cases like this intead, so that they can discuss it like it was a foreign thing.
Sad fact is that 100% of all reported assault rapes in your capital are foreign. Not 98%, not 99%, 100%. England is sad by nature.
Don't remember the right craving multiculture
HoreTore
05-25-2012, 11:00
Sad fact is that 100% of all reported assault rapes in your capital are foreign. Not 98%, not 99%, 100%. England is sad by nature.
Don't remember the right craving multiculture
A lie doesn't become a truth just because you repest it over and over, frags. This statement was found false several pages ago.
I do, however, note that you have changed from "100% muslim" to "100% foreign", so I guess you're heading the right way.
Btw, the assault rapes in Oslo can't be 99% of anything, the data size is too small to affect sizes as small as 1%.
Hey I am just repeating the official statement of the head of Stockholm's police
That's something the right doesn't want to discuss, so they blow up cases like this intead, so that they can discuss it like it was a foreign thing.
no play
HoreTore
05-25-2012, 12:46
Hey I am just repeating the official statement of the head of Stockholm's police
Selective quoting is a lot of fun, but it's still counted as "lying". Perhaps you should quote the rest of what they said? Namely that the foreigners caught and sentenced numbered a grand total of 5 people(of which two were minors and two were insane), that this small ammount was no basis whatsoever to conclude that "foreigners were behind all assault rapes" and that they indeed had evidence of several assault rapes with norwegian suspects.
Also, get your geography straight.
Selective quoting is a lot of fun, but it's still counted as "lying". Perhaps you should quote the rest of what they said? Namely that the foreigners caught and sentenced numbered a grand total of 5 people(of which two were minors and two were insane), that this small ammount was no basis whatsoever to conclude that "foreigners were behind all assault rapes" and that they indeed had evidence of several assault rapes with norwegian suspects.
Also, get your geography straight.
Got it on video. They don't say that. You do. Talk about selective, sentenced and reported aren't the same thing mia muca. All reported assault rapes were commited by non-western immigrants, that's what they said, that only 5 were convicted is a different discussion. There were 86 reported and Oslo is hardly a big city.
Yeah I always mix up Stockholm and Oslo my bad but who sees the difference anyway
Edit, oh people will want the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVVvJIM5UI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
HoreTore
05-25-2012, 22:12
Got it on video. They don't say that. You do. Talk about selective, sentenced and reported aren't the same thing mia muca. All reported assault rapes were commited by non-western immigrants, that's what they said, that only 5 were convicted is a different discussion. There were 86 reported and Oslo is hardly a big city.
Yeah I always mix up Stockholm and Oslo my bad but who sees the difference anyway
Edit, oh people will want the video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiVVvJIM5UI&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Good boy!
No go see if you can fetch that statement the police made in reaction to that newsreport.
Now compare that reaction to my post above.
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