Why the constant need to bow to the outrage of the few? [Archive]

Kadagar_AV

06-15-2012, 00:57

This is more an USA thing in my eyes, but it has started to spread a bit in Europe as well..

There a possibly billions of examples, but I will lead with this one:

Some of the best skiers decided to hold a stupid competition earning "points" on the slopes, this was in California. They got points for different stuff, ie, talking with your mum on the phone while doing a crazy line - or skiing down nude.

Someone, or a few, got upset by this horrible naked skiing. And the management ordered all their lift cards taken. They then sent a crew out to interview people on town, but after a whole long day, they didn't find a single person opposing it. Not... One... Single... Person...

Also, imagine the "value" for the resort at large, some of the worlds best skiers doing absolutely crazy lines down, butt nekkid. They will go home and be like "Wow man, you have no idea what's going on there, you should give it a try".

Afterwards, it turned out that 2 (TWO!) people had called in about it.

And somehow that outweights the hundreds of people high fiving it.

This is just a stupid example, I know. But the pattern at large can be seen everywhere...

Why this tendency to bow to a loud morally uproared minority? Why does a small minority have precedence over what people at large would chuckle at?

This is more common in the states than here, thankfully. But it IS slowly spreading. Europe is getting more cooperate by the day...

drone

06-15-2012, 03:26

You are obviously not thinking of the children.

rvg

06-15-2012, 03:50

Why this tendency to bow to a loud morally uproared minority?...

What makes you think it's a minority?

Montmorency

06-15-2012, 04:07

They then sent a crew out to interview people on town, but after a whole long day, they didn't find a single person opposing it. Not... One... Single... Person[...]Afterwards, it turned out that 2 (TWO!) people had called in about it.

Because he says so.

rvg

06-15-2012, 04:12

Because he says so.

Without looking at the big picture... the overall majority of people in America is unlikely to approve of this kind of behavior. If this makes its way into the news channels (which it would, if they didn't put an immediate stop to it), it would cost the resort its reputation, i.e. clients, i.e. money. Businesses do not like losing money, so they put a stop the kind of behavior that might eat into their profits.

Papewaio

06-15-2012, 05:31

I'm pretty sure naturalist camps exist in the US.

Fragony

06-15-2012, 07:23

Why ski naked it's silly, if you still want to do it in a naturalist camp. I certainly won't like it if they do a naked marathon here, you can of course I wouldn't object but it's so pointless. What is the point anyway

Major Robert Dump

06-15-2012, 08:07

In some cases it is all about politics and fear of fallout from offended customers etc.

But there are plenty of cases I am sure of just knee jerk owners/managers who do not understand their customers or have bad business sense.

I have this little Iranian friend, interesting fellow, who owns part of a restaurant with another friend. They have for years sold little mini 12 ounce fountain drinks for 25 cents that you could pick up on dine in or delivery. My friend wanted to go to bottles, because the fountain drinks are a nightmare: ice machines are health hazards and targets for inspectors, soda fountains are a mess to maintain, customers would order obscene amounts of these little drinks and the employees hated transporting them, plus unsealed fountain drinks being delivered are in my opinion just gross. Also, they made no profit on the drinks at all, due in part to having to pay for cups and labor.

Iranian friend was terrified that they would lose customers because people want the little drinks.

This place has really great food and awesome prices for everything, and outpaces all their competition by a long shot, and this guy thought it was the end of business as he knew it if they went to soda bottles, all because one soccer mom with 5 kids expressed disappointment when he told her one day that he was thinking of changing to bottles. In the end, he was 60% owner and he decided not to eliminate fountain drinks, but to add bottles as well. Their fountain drink sales disappeared over night, and everyone started ordering bottles, which were more expensive and had a bigger profit margin. Finally, the little douche got rid of the fountains altogether.

Just because you own/manage a business doesn't necessarily make you smart. Even dummies can succeed if they show up at the right time.

Kadagar_AV

06-15-2012, 08:52

You are obviously not thinking of the children.

In what way would this hurt the kids?

What makes you think it's a minority?

Again, they couldn't find a single person opposing it. One dear old lady came close, she explained that she was a grandmother and were afraid that they might freeze their bits, but she said it with a grin.

Without looking at the big picture... the overall majority of people in America is unlikely to approve of this kind of behavior. If this makes its way into the news channels (which it would, if they didn't put an immediate stop to it), it would cost the resort its reputation, i.e. clients, i.e. money. Businesses do not like losing money, so they put a stop the kind of behavior that might eat into their profits.

I honestly think the resort would profit from it making the news.

In some cases it is all about politics and fear of fallout from offended customers etc.

But there are plenty of cases I am sure of just knee jerk owners/managers who do not understand their customers or have bad business sense.

10-15 guys do a naked run (and want to).
Hundreds of people cheering them on.

vs

2 morally outraged people.

May I add that this was freeriders. I would have some kind of understanding if they hit the slopes nude, skiing nude among the tourists. But these guys hit the off pist, and could only be seen from a distance from the lifts.

As to why they did it. "Because they could" I assume.

I've been skiing naked, once because I lost a bet, once because I just felt like it (and I was skiing with two very pretty girls who went along with it).

Fragony

06-15-2012, 09:12

Kadagar_AV

06-15-2012, 09:18

You also can't walk te street naked, in public territory you just don't walk around naked. I also just don't see the point of it, why ski naked. Is there a greater understanding of something I am missing or is it just stupid.

Partly because it's stupid (and doing stupid stuff is fun once in a while)...

Partly because of a sense of freedom...

And I guess partly because it raises the challenge (you really don't want to fall)...

And again, this wasn't among people...

Fragony

06-15-2012, 09:38

Partly because it's stupid (and doing stupid stuff is fun once in a while)...

Partly because of a sense of freedom...

And I guess partly because it raises the challenge (you really don't want to fall)...

And again, this wasn't among people...

There are perfectly fine nudist camps where you can do naked stuff, naked barbecue, naked jeu de boules, it is all perfectly possible because nudist camps are allowed. Buy a mountain if you want to ski naked, it will be all yours if you do

Skullheadhq

06-15-2012, 09:42

Skiing or walking the street naked is stupid, but if people want to do it let them. But I can imagine seeing naked landwhales isn't a pretty sight.

Kralizec

06-15-2012, 09:52

And I guess partly because it raises the challenge (you really don't want to fall)...

This. I wouldn't ski naked for the simple reason that I don't want to fall and land on my unprotected junk.

Otherwise, meh.

HoreTore

06-15-2012, 17:46

Because some people just can't accept people who do not conform to their norms.

I could write for a day about this, but I won't since I get angry just thinking about it. These people are the reason I became a leftie, btw, I really can't stand the buggers.

a completely inoffensive name

06-15-2012, 21:47

Because they have a "right to not be offended".

I was told that by one of my high school vice principles. No joke.

Kadagar_AV

06-16-2012, 01:30

Because they have a "right to not be offended".

I was told that by one of my high school vice principles. No joke.

Again, let us do some very simple math:

10 people want to ski nekkid. As a sidenote, they also did this on the "locals" day's where there are the least amount of random tourists, and the slopes are mainly filled with people who are, actually, specifically on the slopes to cheer them on.

2 people do not want to see it.

The thousands of others on the slopes either cheered them on, didn't even notice, or didn't care as all they saw was some pink blurr hitting radical lines at top speeds.

So again, why is the voice of the two people more important?

And as for the children's argument, I think it cause a child more hurt to grow up in a world where random stuff doesn't happen. If I had kids and were out on the slopes, I wouldn't give a flying **** about someone skiing nekkid.

Again though, I think this might, in some respect, be a difference between the US and Europe.

Over there people own the mountains.
Over here THE people own the mountains.

Fragony

06-16-2012, 02:13

Skiing naked remains stupid, why would you ski naked. What am I missing here. You have a right to be free not to do what you want just for the sake of it, and skiing naked is just stupid

Kadagar_AV

06-16-2012, 02:18

No, skiing is stupid.

Skiing is a dangerous sport, heck, it is THE most dangerous sports among the big sports (olympic).

Skiing without a helmet is also stupid. The feel of the wind in your hair does not equate with the extra burden you put on the taxpayers if you get injured because of it.

When did you get all communistic on me?

Fragony

06-16-2012, 02:32

Who cares? Let em ski. What happened to live and let live? We're all grown-ups, we can dislike something without needing to destroy it.

I wouldn't destroy it but it's still stupid

Kadagar_AV

06-16-2012, 02:44

Kadagar_AV

06-16-2012, 03:00

Should add:

If I do gates: I have leg protection, upper body protection, a back shield, a helmet with not one but two bumpers (watch the eyes as well as teeth) and also protection for my hands as I hit the poles.

If I do slope runs, I have helmet and back shield.

If I do slope runs with beginners, I have back shield on. The risk of me not having a helmet outweighs the fact that I can actually hear what happens with the beginners behind me for their safety. Also, it goes so slow collision with other skiers is the only danger for me, and if that happens I prefer to be between my guest and the idiot. So again I need my ears.

If I go extreme skiing, I have back shield, a helmet with an ultra bumper, and full avalanche equipment to boot.

If I once in my life want to **** it all and feel the wind. Who are YOU to stop me?

Fragony

06-16-2012, 05:41

YES!!

It IS stupid.

But sometime's you just want to feel alive, do something you have never done before, show the WORLD you DO something THEY have never done before...

Again, when did you go all commie on me dude?

Call it commie if you want but I just don't like imposing myself, it's just decency to not impose. Ski naked somewhere else, why insist on doing it where it isn't apreciated. But that is part of the fun isn't it, just provoking.

Kadagar_AV

06-16-2012, 05:47

Call it commie if you want but I just don't like imposing myself, it's just decency to not impose. Ski naked somewhere else, why insist on doing it where it isn't apreciated. But that is part of the fun isn't it, just provoking.

How much "somewhere else" can you go but the offpist lines a tourist wouldn't even dream about going?

EDIT: We talk about deep snow with the occasional 5-10 meter drop.

Fragony

06-16-2012, 05:49

How much "somewhere else" can you go but the offpist lines a tourist wouldn't even dream about going?

What good is skiing naked

Kadagar_AV

06-16-2012, 06:22

What good is skiing naked

From the other thread, I forgot to add: I also don't actually care about what you think and will just skip your posts.

Major Robert Dump

06-16-2012, 07:06

Did the guy actually realize 100 people approved vs 2 people compaining? Because I ws thinking maybe he over estimated how offended people will be.

Or maybe he is just a fuddy duddy.

that is always an explanations for a lot of things: fuddy duddy.

a completely inoffensive name

06-16-2012, 07:43

Again though, I think this might, in some respect, be a difference between the US and Europe.

I'm not going to lie. You seem to not know anything about america. I mean I don't know anything about sweden. but I dont piss outside and complain your snow is yellow.

Fragony

06-16-2012, 09:03

From the other thread, I forgot to add: I also don't actually care about what you think and will just skip your posts.

But that would really hurt my feelings

Sarmatian

06-16-2012, 10:07

I'd hate to think what the draft might do to your dingle-dangle. Take care of your dingle-dangles and they will take care of you...

CBR

06-16-2012, 17:12

Why this tendency to bow to a loud morally uproared minority? Why does a small minority have precedence over what people at large would chuckle at?

This is more common in the states than here, thankfully. But it IS slowly spreading. Europe is getting more cooperate by the day...
It is an interesting question. Maybe it is normal to listen to complaints and try to go for a middle way, but that is increasingly becoming an issue because everyone seems to be offended by even small things. Maybe a side effect of this era of individualism and cultural clashes.

Fragony

06-16-2012, 17:41

It is an interesting question. Maybe it is normal to listen to complaints and try to go for a middle way, but that is increasingly becoming an issue because everyone seems to be offended by even small things. Maybe a side effect of this era of individualism and cultural clashes.

It's just about politeness imho. If something isn't apreciated somewhere why do it there, world is big enough to do it somewhere else. I don't give a crap about naked skiing myself but if it isn't apreciated I just wouldn't do it. What is this fight about anyway, skiing naked.

CBR

06-16-2012, 18:32

It's just about politeness imho. If something isn't apreciated somewhere why do it there, world is big enough to do it somewhere else. I don't give a crap about naked skiing myself but if it isn't apreciated I just wouldn't do it. What is this fight about anyway, skiing naked.
That is just his example. Whether it was a good or bad example is not important to me. It is the question about the general tendency of increasing political correctness and its impact that I focus on.

HoreTore

06-16-2012, 19:01

It's just about politeness imho. If something isn't apreciated somewhere why do it there, world is big enough to do it somewhere else. I don't give a crap about naked skiing myself but if it isn't apreciated I just wouldn't do it. What is this fight about anyway, skiing naked.

Out of curiosity...

Just where do you draw the line, Frags? How much behaviour can I demand stopped before you think I'm limiting their freedom?

As an example: can I stop a music event if the music and/or stage show offends me?

(but please don't restrict yourself to just my example in your reply, do come up with your own)

Fragony

06-16-2012, 20:13

Out of curiosity...

Just where do you draw the line, Frags? How much behaviour can I demand stopped before you think I'm limiting their freedom?

As an example: can I stop a music event if the music and/or stage show offends me?

(but please don't restrict yourself to just my example in your reply, do come up with your own)

Whatever is reasonable should be fine

HoreTore

06-16-2012, 20:46

Whatever is reasonable should be fine

Yes, I know that. That's why I asked you how you define reasonable...

HopAlongBunny

06-16-2012, 20:51

Because people who don't care often really don't care.

People who care, shout, moan, rage and go through twists and tangles to make sure YOU know they care. They get a reaction.

As a manager, you grease the wheel that squeaks.

Fragony

06-16-2012, 20:53

Yes, I know that. That's why I asked you how you define reasonable...

Depends each time, being reasonable is not being a jerk, if someone is offended you ought to be respectful of their feelings, what good is provoking by intention

HoreTore

06-16-2012, 20:56

Depends each time, being reasonable is not being a jerk, if someone is offended you ought to be respectful of their feelings, what good is provoking by intention

So..... Drawing comics of some random religions holy prophet(s) should be banned, eh?

Fragony

06-16-2012, 21:10

So..... Drawing comics of some random religions holy prophet(s) should be banned, eh?

I am ok with just about everythinng as long as mutual respect remains a deal, I have no interst whatsoever in how you live your life, just don't bother me that's all

HoreTore

06-16-2012, 21:43

I am ok with just about everythinng as long as mutual respect remains a deal, I have no interst whatsoever in how you live your life, just don't bother me that's all

Who is this centre-liberal(or christian-democrat, perhaps?) who has hijacked Frag's accont?

But just as with liberals, this doesn't make any sense(the liberals who make sense call themselves socialists, of course...).

First, you say it's okay for a couple of people to take an interest in other peoples lives and bother them, then you say it's okay as long as nobody bothers anyone?

Also, post #39 could just as well have been written by one of those people you refer to as multicultis, dhimmis, etc.