Because Assange believes Sweden has a more brutal and corrupt government than the UK

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

For those coming late to this particular party:

Julian Assange - computer hacker etc. - founded Wikileaks - released classified/confidential US documents in cluding diplomatic cables - got Bradley Manning arrested - jetted around Europe to plaudits - is accused of rape and sexual assault after visiting Sweden - has been fighting extradition to Sweden because he says he fears being sent to the US and executed.

We are here:

After 18 months his attempts to fight extradition seemed finally dead unless he submitted to the ECHR in the next few wekks, so the genius has now taken refuge in the Ecuadorian Embassy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9347660/Julian-Assange-could-be-locked-up-if-Ecuador-bid-fails.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9347660/Julian-Assange-could-be-locked-up-if-Ecuador-bid-fails.html)

The punchline?

As he is now in breach of his £240,000 bail not only has he upset many of the Great and the Good who posted it for him, but no matter what happens he will be arrested for breach of the Bail Act.

What gets to me most, though, is the frankly moronic claim that he would be more likely to be extradited to the US from Sweden than the UK, that the Swedish Prosecutor has manufactured the charges, and that either the UK or Sweden would allow extradition without a garrentee from the US that he would not be executed.

My view of this man is that he is either guilty as sin ( possible given his self importance and disregard for boundaries and social propriety) or that he is just a dangerous loon.

[Fragony]

He will actually be send to the US the second he steps on Sweden soil.

I don't like him either, yeah there's somthing wrong with him, it's in every movement he makes.

[rory_20_uk]

He has been accused in Sweden, but I was not aware that charges had been filed. At that point I do wonder why we are extraditing him in the first place.

The UK only extradites white software hackers, not known Islamic terrorists so on that one he's lucky to still be in the UK.

The "Great and Good" who coughed up the money deserve to loose it.

~:smoking:

[drone]

Charges have not been filed in Sweden, the extradition was for further questioning about the case. I didn't know about the bail issue, but this just validates my theory that regardless of what is actually happening, Assange himself really believes he is US-bound if he goes to Sweden.

And he didn't get Manning arrested. Manning did that all by himself. :yes:

[rory_20_uk]

No charges = no case. If the "victims" won't press charges there is nothing to do. Can I be dragged off to Sweden to havea chat based on nothing? Either get the detectives to come over here, get UK detectives to interview or... Use a Phone.

~:smoking:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

No charges = no case. If the "victims" won't press charges there is nothing to do. Can I be dragged off to Sweden to havea chat based on nothing? Either get the detectives to come over here, get UK detectives to interview or... Use a Phone.

~:smoking:

Someone else may be able to shed further light on this but I believe the issue is a peculiarity of Swedish Law - something about the case having to come to court within a set period after charges are filed. Basically, if they had filed charges by the time they got him to Sweden they would have lapsed or some such.

If the situation were reversed, then charges would have been filed - so I am given to understand.

Frags - I can see litterally nothing stopping him from being extradited from the UK, except the Swedish case. In fact, I can't see any country with an extradition reaty with the US not extraditing him, provided garrentees were given that he would not be executed. He's certainly not safer in the UK than Sweden.

[Tellos Athenaios]

It's kind of important that it all started with a European arrest warrant. That is not a request for extradition, not in the slightest.
For all intents and purposes it is the same as a British arrest warrant, when in Britain; or a Dutch warrant when in the Netherlands.

When plod find him, they're supposed to arrest then and hand him over to the officers from the country where he is wanted. No question.

Why you ask? Because the UK, the Netherlands, Sweden et. all recognise each other as being basically a-OK when it comes to the whole
due process thing.

[Fragony]

It's kind of important that it all started with a European arrest warrant. That is not a request for extradition, not in the slightest.
For all intents and purposes it is the same as a British arrest warrant, when in Britain; or a Dutch warrant when in the Netherlands.

When plod find him, they're supposed to arrest then and hand him over to the officers from the country where he is wanted. No question.

Why you ask? Because the UK, the Netherlands, Sweden et. all recognise each other as being basically a-OK when it comes to the whole
due process thing.

Speak for yourself, a country is a sovereign nation not a province of a even greater idea. Will be eventually but not now.

You are kidding yourself

[rvg]

He'll get what's coming to him. Eventually.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Speak for yourself, a country is a sovereign nation not a province of a even greater idea. Will be eventually but not now.

You are kidding yourself

So a country may voluntarily sign a treaty with other countries and decide that (a) they each have all the bases covered, and (b) that it is worthwhile to give up a little bit of the freedom to "don't care about others" in return for an equally more cooperative attitude on the other end. It is a quid pro quo.

The fact that Assange contested the decision in court is just down to the fact that sovereignty is not in any way/shape/form compromised by the treaty. Britain could still opt not to care about the treaty. The fact he lost is down to the treaty and the fact Britain does care.

He's now officially wanted in both Sweden and Britain. Ecuador is not a solution, the guy cannot get out without the help of British consent or incompetence, and getting out would mean committing a crime under British law.

[rory_20_uk]

There are always ways. He can get out via a "diplomatic pouch" which can not be tampered with.

~:smoking:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It's kind of important that it all started with a European arrest warrant. That is not a request for extradition, not in the slightest.
For all intents and purposes it is the same as a British arrest warrant, when in Britain; or a Dutch warrant when in the Netherlands.

When plod find him, they're supposed to arrest then and hand him over to the officers from the country where he is wanted. No question.

Why you ask? Because the UK, the Netherlands, Sweden et. all recognise each other as being basically a-OK when it comes to the whole
due process thing.

This is a good point - indeed, we arrest people over here before we charge, sometimes too often. The question raised (which I think was worth considering) was whether Britain should accept a warrent not issued by a Judge, but instead by a Prosecutor. It was decided that we should respect said warrent.

As has been noted - plod will nab him before he gets to the Diplomatic car, the only way he can get away with it now is to stay in the embassy until the statute of limitations runs out. That would effectively mean he would be under house arrest for the next few years.

[rory_20_uk]

He's issued with a passport from Equador and made a diplomat. The best we can do is make him Persona Non Gratia and send him "home".

There are always ways if one wants.

~:smoking:

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

He's issued with a passport from Equador and made a diplomat. The best we can do is make him Persona Non Gratia and send him "home".

There are always ways if one wants.

~:smoking:

For that he would need the approval of the Foriegn Office - and he won't get it. It's the UK Foriegn Office that chooses whether or not recognise Diplomatic Passports in the UK - that's how come they can revoke them (but not without cause).

The only way he could pull that plan off would be if he became their new ambassador to the UN, apparently.

You also have to ask - how much does Ecuador want to upset the UK and Sweden, especially when the crime involved is rape and then contempt of court?

[Ja'chyra]

For me this has always been a tough one.

On one hand the guy was a bit of a knob for posting secret stuff all over the web, but on the other does anyone really think the US would tell others the truth, or that they should get away with their heavy-handed politics? On the other, there is no way to tell if this really is trumped up charge or whether it just didn't come up until he popped into the limelight. My view would be to send him to Sweden on the understanding that we wasn't sent on to the US and let due process take it's course.

The idea he would be tried for treason in the US is, to my mind, ridiculous, treason implies you are from the country in question.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well depends on how you look at it. Smoke and mirrors. If you need a proper whistleblower site, try http://cryptome.org/ (Cryptome has been around since 1996)

[Ja'chyra]

Wikileaks was an awesome idea, and I still fully support the idea of exposing every single lie possible told by any government, anywhere. Transparency is the key to freedom, and all that.

That said, Assange is obviously an unstable individual. Innocent men don't skip bail, change tactics mid-stream, and then try to seek asylum in Ecuador of all places. Rape and sexual assault are serious charges, and they undo any of the good he might have done with wikileaks. I just hope others carry on the idea of wikileaks after he's been locked up.

High profile embarrassment needs high profile mud

[Fragony]

Wikileaks was an awesome idea, and I still fully support the idea of exposing every single lie possible told by any government, anywhere. Transparency is the key to freedom, and all that.

That said, Assange is obviously an unstable individual. Innocent men don't skip bail, change tactics mid-stream, and then try to seek asylum in Ecuador of all places. Rape and sexual assault are serious charges, and they undo any of the good he might have done with wikileaks. I just hope others carry on the idea of wikileaks after he's been locked up.

I dunno, maybe Swedish chicks expect different things when they get invited into your hotel-room, but I would expect to get laid. It's smelly. I mean the rape case.

[Husar]

I dunno, maybe Swedish chicks expect different things when they get invited into your hotel-room, but I would expect to get laid. It's smelly. I mean the rape case.

Does that mean once they enter they are not allowed to change their mind?

The funny thing is that Assange said something about being able to work in freedom in Ecuador, a country that jails journalists for "slandering" the president...

As much as I agree about treating him for treason in the US being ridiculous, he does seem rather pathetic himself.

He should face the swedish charges without extradition to the US.
For now, Ecuador seems to be testing his case though, I wonder how they will decide after the charming words he had for them. :laugh4:

[Fragony]

Does that mean once they enter they are not allowed to change their mind?

i would be surprised to say the least. I wouldn't volunteer to be mauled by the system so I don't blame Assange for it no matter how I think of him. And what I think of him isn't very nice by the way.

[InsaneApache]

It a sight I would never have thought to have seen in my lifetime. What sort of country have we become when someone has to take refuge in a foreign embassy?

[Fragony]

It a sight I would never have thought to have seen in my lifetime. What sort of country have we become when someone has to take refuge in a foreign embassy?

Que since when is England not a totalitarian state in disguise. All monarchies are like that

[Greyblades]

Way to project your hatred of your royal family on to all monarchies frags.

[Brenus]

“The funny thing is that Assange said something about being able to work in freedom in Ecuador, a country that jails journalists for "slandering" the president...”
In France, Sarkozy did the same thing. He was the only President who used this Law. So, you may argue that France is not a true Democracy (and as we see with what happened to the French NO that become a YES), this is not a proof of dictatorship.

[Fragony]

Way to project your hatred of your royal family on to all monarchies frags.

Make that 'disgust', the French found a perfect solution for dealing with it, even if it's not exactly a clean shave

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It a sight I would never have thought to have seen in my lifetime. What sort of country have we become when someone has to take refuge in a foreign embassy?

It's about the same as the Polish man a few years ago who took refuge in a Church and had a heart attack when he was dragged out by the Police.

As has been pointed out - we did sign up for this EAW business, so it should be hnoured and I personally see nothing wrong with thew Swedish justice system or Swedish government that indicates he will be treated worse there than here.

That's the key point - I think if the US asked for Assange we would give him to them, and I do think there is a case to answer because I'm not sure Wikileaks passes the general "public interest" defense for whistleblowing.

We should not confuse public titilation at diplomatic cables with public benefit.

[Furunculus]

Well depends on how you look at it. Smoke and mirrors. If you need a proper whistleblower site, try http://cryptome.org/ (Cryptome has been around since 1996)

agreed, i have had it bookmarked since about 2002.

[Papewaio]

Surely a more efficient system for these warrants would be to get the evidence where the person is?

If all you are after is information, and criminals here do teleconferences fron prison and sick people give evidence from hospital. Why not just a video call? Is the data invalid?

If the warrant has been served and then the data shows reason to charge then go to the cost and hassle of extradition. As for the clock counting down it should never include time outside the country either on the lam or fighting extradtion.

=][=

Now the Australia. Government appears to have done less for Assamnge then a drug runner . They have appeared to do the absolute minimum required.

=][=

The diplomatic cables leaked made the US come across as erudite and on the ball.

They might have also contributed to the Arab Spring.

So 2 to nil transparency vs obfuscation.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Surely a more efficient system for these warrants would be to get the evidence where the person is?

Well, in theory maybe. In practice however you would be introducing a whole lot more scope for things to go wrong and we are still talking about different jurisdictions, possibly with fundamentally different laws (think France versus Britain). So a simpler design is to be preferred.