EBOT 2012 July

[vartan]

Europa Barbarorum Online Tournament 2012 July

EDU
3.4

Network
ID: 100-792-846
Pass: eb

Points
A win grants one point. A loss deducts one point.

Registration
Sign up by replying to this post. Announce your faction. You may only change your faction if you have yet to play your first battle. You may register at any time before or during the month.

Ladder (http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder)
The ladder is also where you report your games. It can be found on the EBO website here (http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder).

Reporting Games (http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder)
Winners must report their games on the ladder above. On the report form, make sure to browse for and upload your replay file. Winners are also recommended to reply to this post announce their victory and who the opponent was, but this is not mandatory.

Appeals
You may appeal a loss in the form of a reply to this post. Players other than the two from the battle in question can review the replay and take note of any relevant violations that may disqualify the victory.

Griefers
Press ~ to expand the chat log and take screenshots of the text. Send a PM with screenshots and your complaint and we will deal with it accordingly.

Registered Players



No.
Player
Faction


1
Arjos_Suadurix
Pahlava


2
BraveSirRobin
SPQR


3
Capo
Casse


4
ebrocks
Arche Seleukeia


5
gamegeek2
Baktria


6
Kival
Sweboz


7
Sith7DarthLazy
Carthage


8
LMT
Baktria


9
Quetzalcoatl
Epeiros


10
Stormrage
Koinon Hellenon





Score Report
https://i.imgur.com/9F9BR.jpg

[Vega]

Beautiful, im in of course, dunno with which faction yet..... Probably SPQR, Saka or Aedui... :P

[lmt96]

LMT's classic, I'll play as Baktria :D

[capomafioso]

i think i might shake it up a little and go as AS


just kidding can you put me down as casse please?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I think my abortive attempt as the Lusos last August deserves another go around. We'll see how those pesky Iberians can do.

[Kival]

I'll be using Sweboz then if Robin doesn't.

[Lazy O]

Qart hadastim

[Vlixes]

Epeiros.

[Vega]

TBA.

What that means? Anyway I will play as S.P.Q.R..... :)))))

[vartan]

What that means? Anyway I will play as S.P.Q.R..... :)))))

The old Vega is back. It's good to see you again, Roman =)

[gamegeek2]

Baktria.

[-Stormrage-]

i'll take Koinon Hellenon

EDIT: On second thought, Getai. The Getai will be victorious. Beware our ultra High accuracy Javs and arrows.

[Vlixes]

Epeiros.

[Seba_Fallus_3_Wielki]

Seba_Fallus_3_Wielki Ptolemaioi

[vartan]

Could your username be any more convenient?

*sigh* welcome aboard...

EDIT: Cutting you a deal you can't refuse. Going to call you Seba for purposes of convenience. And by 'call' I mean on any files or posts that have your name on them. Seba-Vega.rpy if you catch my drift. All those underscores...

[Arjos]

For the moment, I will take Pahlava ^^

[Yavana]

I cant decide my faction^^

[Vega]

The old Vega is back. It's good to see you again, Roman =)

Not at all Vartan, i changed my mind, Im going with Macedonia this month..... :)

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

For the moment, I will take Pahlava ^^

Hmm, if you take 20 Mardians you might be able to beat Lusos.

[Arjos]

I like that most players are taking factions with very few battles in tournaments so far :)

[The Celtic Viking]

I'll not disappoint then and pick Hayasdan. ^^

[Arjos]

If you wanna count it or not lol

Arjos vs The Feathered Serpent #1 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dszgivlo7g9s3kt/Zi6xeB0Jja/Arjos-Ulysses_2012-07-01.rpy)

Here's the story of the grivpanvar XD

[Vega]

If you wanna count it or not lol

Arjos vs The Feathered Serpent #1 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dszgivlo7g9s3kt/Zi6xeB0Jja/Arjos-Ulysses_2012-07-01.rpy)

Here's the story of the grivpanvar XD

I watched it and i still cant believe, can imagine ulysses face after that battle lol ....

[gamegeek2]

Ulysses played well until all of Arjos infantry was dead, then he made a LOT of mistakes.

EDIT: gamegeek2 defeats stormrage. I can't find the file after I posted it in the dropbox.

[Arjos]

Arjos vs Stormrage #1 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dszgivlo7g9s3kt/neB0k8Vsp6/Arjos-Stormrage_2012-07-02.rpy)

Straight and True, Our Arrows Fly :P

[vartan]

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dszgivlo7g9s3kt/Rt12iJqVh2

I can see your file here gg2. As you see I keep renaming them so they don't have the date at the end.

P.S. I'm working on implementing a ladder on the EBO website that would let you directly upload replay files on the same form where you would report a game.

EDIT: Posted thread on new ladder (http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder).

EDIT 2: Oh, and please post any of the few July battles you may have had on the ladder. Rule to remember is that the ladder doesn't ask you when you played your game. So report games right after you play them. It records report date and time. So as long as you report it in July, I count it for July.

[EB rocks]

put me down as the AS.

[Vlixes]

If you wanna count it or not lol

Arjos vs The Feathered Serpent #1 (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/dszgivlo7g9s3kt/Zi6xeB0Jja/Arjos-Ulysses_2012-07-01.rpy)

Here's the story of the grivpanvar XD

I want to apologize for my behaviour. I willing to do what is right, you have that battle point waiting.

[Arjos]

I willing to do what is right, you have that battle point waiting.

Ugh, we have a new ladder now and I don't even have that replay anymore to report it...
It wasn't a big deal to begin with, would've asked to just skip it lol
If you wanna do what is right, keep on playing and stop quitting in a tantrum ^^

[Velho]

Ill be in but ill get eb working first and look what faction suits me best

Edit: Eb working like a dream :)

[EB rocks]

ill be the Arche Seleukia.

[vartan]

ill be the Arche Seleukia.

Hi, are you getting that Alzheimer's checked? Just kidding. That's not even funny at all. I've got you down as the AS.

[capomafioso]

vartan you heartless bastard

speaking of heartless bastards (me), casse remorselessly held onto to a victory against ulysses
http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/gamehistory.php?reporteddirection=&reportdate=&winner=capo&loser=&winnerratingdirection=&winnerrating=&loserratingdirection=&loserrating=&replay=&submit=Update+Search&playerand=AND&ratingand=AND

gg buddy

[vartan]

Don't you mean:

http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-02+21%3A58%3A11

[Arjos]

Arjos vs Capo #1 (http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-04+08%3A27%3A39)

Arjos vs Capo #2 (http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-04+08%3A31%3A19)

Crassus here I come! XD

[Kival]

Kival's Sweboz wins against capo's Casse #1: http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-05+00%3A28%3A20

Kival wins against capo #2. http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-05+00%3A30%3A17

[Velho]

Ill be saka rauka

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Saka are clearly the new Rome:clown:

[Yavana]

Arche S

[Arjos]

Arjos vs Stormrage #2 (http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-06+18%3A29%3A36)

Not even the Agrianai can withstand the Pahlava horse archers :P

[capomafioso]

http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-08+01%3A44%3A00

a brutal victory against the Arche Seleukeia, gg

[Kival]

Kival wins vs Ebrocks



http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-08+23%3A35%3A19



EDIT: Is it only me or do replays downloaded from the website not work for anyone else, too?

[The Celtic Viking]

No, they seem to crash RTW every time I try to load them.

[capomafioso]

mine seemed alright

[Arjos]

EDIT: Is it only me or do replays downloaded from the website not work for anyone else, too?

Haven't experienced anything of the sort so far...

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Work for me as well.

[vartan]

Kival, TCV, and now me. Granted I only had time last night to try and load only one replay, but that one replay crashed as soon as I clicked on the button to load the battle. I'll look into this. Perhaps the file needs renaming?

[Arjos]

Don't know exactly what's happening to you guys, but afaik there's the possibility of a random crash loading replays, just like the pre-battle CTDs...

[The Celtic Viking]

Don't know exactly what's happening to you guys, but afaik there's the possibility of a random crash loading replays, just like the pre-battle CTDs...

It's not that. I tried the same one 3-4 times, and I've tried every one in this thread. I've tried going directly to the ladder and getting replays from there; I've tried renaming them manually too. Always crashes immediately after I click to load, while other replays work fine.

[-Stormrage-]

try clicking the arrow button, maybe the load button is being naughty.

[vartan]

Alright. Listen up people. If you would like to view any of the replays posted on the ladder, you must download them in a non-Firefox browser. So far I have only confirmed IE to work, so use that. The reason is that currently, if you download using Firefox, a piece of code (not harmful) is added to the end of the file (see attached image).

As you can see, it's a non-harmful code that the web host uses to keep statistics and check for activity. I can't tamper with it and it'll remain until I migrate the site (hopefully will fix this for F-Fox users). Until then, you'll have to use IE to grab the replays. Sorry for the trouble and inconvenience.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I can confirm Google Chrome works as well.

[vartan]

Alright. I don't plan on migrating the website until after this year's tournament season is over, the main reason being I do not want to give you guys any down-time. Sorry Firefox users.

[Kival]

I'll never use IE, but I'll see if Opera works.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I hereby renounce the Lusos for July. I'm switching factions since i haven't started although nobody wants to play this month anyway :p.

[Kival]

I hereby renounce the Lusos for July. I'm switching factions since i haven't started although nobody wants to play this month anyway :p.



Pah, last part is not true!

[Arjos]

Ahahahahahah I ROFLed @ Rob :D


I'll never use IE

Join the darkside! XD

[Lazy O]

The darkside declares that IE is heretical .

[capomafioso]

Pah, last part is not true!

lol noone wants to play against 16 HAs arjos

[Arjos]

lol noone wants to play against 16 HAs arjos

Ah! Every day they grow in number, by the end of the month they shall be 40! XD

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Switched to Rome and my first victory against Kival is on the ladder.

[Vega]

Switched to Rome and my first victory against Kival is on the ladder.

Thank you

[Seba_Fallus_3_Wielki]

Sory guy's i must resign tournament . I haven't time ;/

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

No prob Seba. If you can't play again, not a big deal. If you find time its great. We're pretty casual here.

[helenos aiakides]

Can I register as the Arverni?

[Kival]

Can I register as the Arverni?

There should be no problem with that.

[helenos aiakides]

Cheers!

[Kival]

3rd victory over capo:


http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-14+02%3A17%3A01


Thank you for the tourney matches, capo!

[Lazy O]

Victory vs Kival .

*Someone check Numidian Nobles for balance*

[Lazy O]

Win vs Capo .Imma beat robin's streak nao :P

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Whats wrong with Numidian Nobles?

[Lazy O]

They are the stuff of legend and nightmares alike .

Victory vs Stormrage .

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Victory against Capo and then a loss against him. Poor Camillans had absolutely nothing to kill off Ebherni if I get sloppy with cavalry.:clown:

[capomafioso]

first win against robin and his camillan romans
http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-18+02%3A58%3A30

[-Stormrage-]

first win against robin and his camillan romans
http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-18+02%3A58%3A30

wow, well done.

[Arjos]

Camillan Syriakoi, that made me giggle XD

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Victory against Storm up on ladder.

[vartan]

Victories...against...Robin? The world really is turning on its head! (=

[Kival]

He's only using Camillian and Polybian Romans, no wonder he's losing.

[Arjos]

Arjos vs Brave Sir Robin #1 (http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-19+11%3A24%3A37)

Yup he's using those and just for that he gains +100 respect from me :P
On other news, horse-archers keep up their frustrating game XD

[Vega]

No wonder Steppe OP

[Arjos]

No wonder Steppe OP

Said the Saka spammer XD

[Vlixes]

Said the Saka spammer XD

Just spam naked indians with cataelephants, get Ulysses as ally and win. :D

Flying digital bodies, bowling championship: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/85882654/eleinsanity.rpy

[Vlixes]

Arjos vs Brave Sir Robin #1 (http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-19+11%3A24%3A37)

Yup he's using those and just for that he gains +100 respect from me :P
On other news, horse-archers keep up their frustrating game XD

I'm crazy or Arjos is bringing this game to noobishness for all?

[Arjos]

I want those accuracy tweaks, if this is the only way to get them, so be it XD

Anyway, what a pack of sore losers lol

[Lazy O]

Arjos, you have earned yourself an 8 cretan army .

[capomafioso]

chaotic win against LMT his elephants threw my men all over the place
http://ebportal.tk/ebo/ladder/download-replay.php?reported_on=2012-07-20+09%3A39%3A25

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Arjos, you have earned yourself an 8 cretan army .

It won't help. If 4 Syrians and 2 Cretans aren't enough, I don't know what is.

[Kival]

It won't help. If 4 Syrians and 2 Cretans aren't enough, I don't know what is.

Archers with higher accuracy than medium might help ~;)

[capomafioso]

the only archers with higher accuracy than medium also have no armor, and would get charged once and run

[Arjos]

More to the reason why HAs need to be statted as the harassers they were and not mounted sharpshooters with sniper rifles XD

[gamegeek2]

If you think HAs are bad now, play vanilla for a spell and you'll see how far we've come...

[Lazy O]

Vanilla has a limit of 2 horse archers. I think they are fine right now , Of course when you let yourself get surrounded by an army of them you are asking for trouble .

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

And the old legacy rules for EBO restricted just how many you could bring and also forced you to bring some infantry IIRC. With no infantry to attack, there is really nothing you can do now except hunker down and wait out an arrow storm. Recreating Carrhae is not the most fun thing to do.

[Lazy O]

Not quite correct, taking arjos as an example, his army quite clearly revolves around 3 units of cataphracts .

[gamegeek2]

And the old legacy rules for EBO restricted just how many you could bring and also forced you to bring some infantry IIRC. With no infantry to attack, there is really nothing you can do now except hunker down and wait out an arrow storm. Recreating Carrhae is not the most fun thing to do.

Regardless of whether individual battles are "fun" or not (that of course is entirely personal perception though I generally agree with you), the current situation is an huge improvement over vanilla EB. If this becomes a legitimate problem, where everyone decides that HA is the best strategy and brings 5+ of them to a battle every time they can, then we can address is, but right now I don't feel it's nearly that much of a concern.

However with the legacy rules, every battle using a steppe faction that I played was a Carrhae re-enaction. No exceptions. Now you have flexibility and you have competent foot archers to counter annoying HA.

[Arjos]

Now you have flexibility and you have competent foot archers to counter annoying HA.

But with such high accuracy, HAs have really little to no problem, unless incredibly outnumbered by foot...
I remember reading of bands repelled by a handful of archers lol
And anyway that an horse archer has that accuracy is sci-fi, they shot towards concentrations of enemies: the law of great numbers did the killing (even though, really was just harassing, heavy lancers did the dirty work), not the accuracy...


Not quite correct, taking arjos as an example, his army quite clearly revolves around 3 units of cataphracts.

Shhhh! Don't say it out loud, people are still mesmerized by the smoke screen of infantry or horse-archers XD

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Haha, I know his army revolves around cataphracts but they are impossible to catch and kill by nearly all cavalry without infantry support. And if you wildly chase after them, you get shot up by the shadowing horse archers. With the removal of ap from the kopis, the list of cavalry that can actually defeat cataphracts 1v1 in melee is probably only 2 or 3 anyway.

The other issue here is that cataphracts don't tire as fast as they should nor move as slowly as they should but that is not easily correctable, or in the case of tiring, hardcoded.

The other problem with HA as they currently stand is a weight of numbers issue. The 73 man and 66 man units create some issues because in a giant cavalry swarm, they outnumber anything civilized factions can hope to bring to bear and often can rout opposing cavalry simply through the weight of numbers morale penalty. In my battle with Arjos, you may notice that my generals BG turns to countercharge an incoming mass HA charge of probably 300-400 cavalry men and even though only about 6-7 of the bodyguards die in the charge, they rout even standing immediately in front of my infantry. I don't think the numbers should be changed, but this only adds to the current issue.

[Arjos]

I don't think the number of cavalrymen is a problem, lots of units will always be lots of units anyway...


With the removal of ap from the kopis

Aye, that's part of the "saddest days in EBO history" :P

[Lazy O]

Get ap back then . And make jav cav as cheap as horse archers .

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Light jav cav (ie Numidians) are already cost effective against anything other than horse archers. They don't need a discount, horse archers just need an accuracy reduction. Basically, in order to have a decent amount of accuracy, horse archers should have to be moving within 30 meters of their target, not running at 80 and picking guys off.

On a side not, managed to defeat Capo again. Victory on the ladder. Lets get some more tournament matches going this month guys! I need to catch Arjos in +/-!

[Lazy O]

Light jav cav (ie Numidians) are already cost effective against anything other than horse archers. They don't need a discount, horse archers just need an accuracy reduction. Basically, in order to have a decent amount of accuracy, horse archers should have to be moving within 30 meters of their target, not running at 80 and picking guys off.

On a side not, managed to defeat Capo again. Victory on the ladder. Lets get some more tournament matches going this month guys! I need to catch Arjos in +/-!

Nein !!! This only becomes apparent when you go full steppe, in a normal army with infantry, they will be underpowered for no reason at all .

[gamegeek2]

Aye, that's part of the "saddest days in EBO history" :P

Are you freaking kidding me? Do you remember how lopsided the battles were between the otherwise rather comparable Brihentin and Hippeis Xystophoroi? How the Azad cataphract unit was made utterly unplayable except against barbarians by armor-piercing kopides? How in general cataphracts were considered rather useless before this change (if I recall correctly)?

AND it makes no sense for the thing to have AP.

[The Celtic Viking]

Are you freaking kidding me? Do you remember how lopsided the battles were between the otherwise rather comparable Brihentin and Hippeis Xystophoroi? How the Azad cataphract unit was made utterly unplayable except against barbarians by armor-piercing kopides? How in general cataphracts were considered rather useless before this change (if I recall correctly)?

AND it makes no sense for the thing to have AP.

Except for that last sentence, I wholeheartedly agree. I'd have preferred an attack/lethality loss, though; now they're just on the other side of the spectrum instead.

Edit: oh, and except for that point about cataphracts though. The scary cataphracts were more OP than anything else, so while they had that trait I'm glad the kopis was OP too. It gave non-cata factions a chance. In this case, a second wrong didn't exactly make a right, but it did lessen the impact of the first.

[Kival]

How the Azad cataphract unit was made utterly unplayable except against barbarians by armor-piercing kopides?

I disagree. Cataphracts were not useless, the Azad cataphract unit just was not good in melee (!) against armoured cavalry with kopides.

[Arjos]

What's wrong about keltic cavalry losing to armour piercing weaponry? Afaik the former was renowned for the trimarkisia (each "knight" supported by two mounted attendants), so basically numerical superiority and they performed pretty badly against germanic cavalry: I really don't see the "Brihentin should be the non plus ultra" point...

As for cataphracts, in what fantasy world did you pick that they were invulnerable in melee? They had weight in the charge and were basically missile proof, but when caught by more agile cavalry in melee, they got shredded...


AND it makes no sense for the thing to have AP.

In your preferential view sure, in reality no :D

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Are you freaking kidding me? Do you remember how lopsided the battles were between the otherwise rather comparable Brihentin and Hippeis Xystophoroi? How the Azad cataphract unit was made utterly unplayable except against barbarians by armor-piercing kopides? How in general cataphracts were considered rather useless before this change (if I recall correctly)?

AND it makes no sense for the thing to have AP.

I think you may be referring to Lonchophoroi because they are a more similar unit to Brihentin but I personally have no issue with Brihentin losing to Lonchophoroi or for that matter any upper tier Greek Cavalry. They were better against light cavalry if that was any consolation.

The Azad cataphract used to be the most popular of the cataphract units back when fear existed for these units. They were cheap and excellent chargers. All that heavy armor is a detriment in a close melee. Which brings me to your next point, cataphracts should be bad in melee, especially against cavalry with ap weapons. And cataphracts were never considered useless, in fact many of us refused to use them because they were so strong with the fear attribute.

And finally, while I'm not firmly against the kopis losing ap, I did actually prefer when the weapon had the ap quality. You used to tout that units like Hetairoi could beat cataphracts in melee, somewhat of a selling point for such an expensive unit. Well, they get ground to pieces by cataphracts now.

[Arjos]

in a normal army with infantry, they will be underpowered for no reason at all.

That's just wrong, 2 riders are deadly, since everyone picks the uh or h ones and for a reason: sharpshooters on horseback XD

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

That's just wrong, 2 riders are deadly, since everyone picks the uh or h ones and for a reason: sharpshooters on horseback XD

Playing as AS, I regularly rack up 400+ kills with just 2 units of Dahae Riders in one of my standard armies. I'd like to see heavy cavalry do that on a normal basis!

[Arjos]

BTW just for a laugh, since most of the posts gave me that reaction anyway :P

One is AP and the other isn't, spot the differences!

(little hint there isn't any XD)

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/250/9/f/iberian_falcata_by_solrac1993-d2y908u.jpg

http://www.forensicfashion.com/files/BC490GreekHopliteSwordKopisMet01.jpg

[gamegeek2]

I would like to remove AP from falcatas as well, but I'm afraid there would be an even bigger shitstorm.

And if you look at cavalry kopides they aren't nearly as curved.

https://img18.imageshack.us/img18/4482/65272801.jpg

[Arjos]

For cavalry I might even agree, but infantry should have it and if the distinction can't be made, they should keep AP or at least give them decent stats, right now a kopis has like 10 attack at best lol!

[Kival]

Why should Cavalry-kopides and infantry kopides even considered the same weapon when they are so different? Only because the same name is used? If gamegeek's picture of cavalry-kopides is accurate for the average cavalry kopides, I would vote for no-ap for cavalry kopides but ap for infantry kopides (and falcata).

[The Celtic Viking]

Agreed from my side as well.

[Arjos]

Whoever made that model had a sabre in his mind...

http://comitatus.net/images/research_greeksword9.jpg

Both these are cavalry kopides, as you can see even the longer "slender" version, still has more weight on the tip...
I don't know if in melee it's somewhat less effective, compared with the momentum of a running horse, so I honestly don't know if it "loses" the AP effect in that case (since the hit would be slower)...

Maybe we can stat the cavalry kopis as a longsword, bringing back the AP to the infantry kopis; mind you I don't even know if it's possible :P

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Why wouldn't that be possible? All stats are tied to the edu entry for each specific unit.

Would anyone be opposed to lowering the cost of the heavy Hellenistic cavalry in this case too as well as some of the more elite Gallic/German cavs? Units like Remi, Galatian Heavies, Hetairoi, Thessalians, Molosson, etc are far too expensive compared to the lesser cavalry, especially compared with cataphracts. This is part of the problem especially for factions like Makedonia and Epeiros in that their elite cavalry is relatively fragile and extremely expensive.

[Arjos]

I thought weapons' stats were fixed :P

Anyway, yes certain heavy cavalry is way too pricy, so are light archers over 1k too...
Also the Roxolani and the Sauro BG aren't cataphracts at all lol (not nearly as missile proof as what basically is the same unit in another faction)...

But let's move to a different thread, this is going way too off-topic :D

[gamegeek2]

still has more weight on the tip...

Is this really a passable argument for the dramatic game-changing effect you're trying to push? A little tip-weight leading to a weapon being decisively less effective in a fight between naked men compared with a simple straight sword but far more effective than a straight sword when each has a helmet, breastplate, and greaves? I thought tip-weighting was supposed to improve slash damage when one comes into contact with flesh?

The infantry-cavalry distinction I don't mind. Just note that the kopis and falcata are fine stabbing weapons and work a lot more like swords than axes, though they can have the bite of the latter.


right now a kopis has like 10 attack at best lol!

Hmm, let's take a gander:




type hellenistic cavalry generals bodyguard
stat_sec 15, 22, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.24

type hellenistic cavalry hellenikoi kataphraktoi
stat_sec 13, 25, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.24


If you are referring to infantry well then...



type roman infantry auxilia peditesextraordinarii
stat_sec 12, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, slashing, sword, 0 ,0.24


Aside from this unit there are no Tier 4 (EB stat-wise) infantry armed with kopides. So that explains your statement, along with the fact that only Celts, Germans/Balts/Slavs, and Celticized Iberians receive the "barbarian bonus" to atk/def.

[Arjos]

I thought tip-weighting was supposed to improve slash damage when one comes into contact with flesh?

I was speaking of the cavalry longer ones, and I SAID I'm not sure if it happens or not, but I would imagine it was designed to work with the horse's run momentum...
The weight distribution helps the slash and gives a greater impact force...
But as you pointed out (even though with a poor image), the blade is different and in a chaotic close-quarters struggle, I figured the longer sword, wouldn't make it easier to strike with a full arc...


A little tip-weight leading to a weapon being decisively less effective in a fight between naked men

That's an engine issue, if you can give them accurate stats without AP, go ahead, but looking at what the kopis became (a useless weapon), there's need for more work, imo it's the tier that limits everything...


Just note that the kopis and falcata are fine stabbing weapons and work a lot more like swords than axes, though they can have the bite of the latter.

Exactly why no one is speaking of giving it axe-like stats, but a shared feature...


Aside from this unit there are no Tier 4 (EB stat-wise) infantry armed with kopides.

I had in mind troops like the Samnitici, Thorakitai Hoplitai etc...
And my stance on the tier system is well known XD

[gamegeek2]

Kopides are useless but straight swords and gladii aren't? Were spears pushed too much?

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Compare Samnitici Milites and Neitos for example. Kopides are basically longswords with -1 attack. Also Thorakitai Hoplitai don't perform nearly as well as they used to (regular Thorakitai are substantially more useful now it seems).

Also, not true that Pedites are the only tier 4 kopis unit. Basilikon Agema also fit that criteria. But they are used to being overlooked. Those poor guys couldn't even get good stamina.:clown:

And we like the useful spears. At least I do. They're great.

[The Celtic Viking]

Thorakitai Hoplitai gets crushed by Milnaht when using the kopides but wins against them when using the spear.

[gamegeek2]

Kopides are basically longswords with -1 attack

That's misleading. It's that the units with kopides do not receive the "barbarian bonus" to attack and defense that the longsword-wielding Gauls do.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Gah and just realized Pedites Extraordinarii don't have good stamina either. These are the only non-tank infantry units that don't have good stamina and both happen to use the kopis. Conspiracy anyone? :laugh4:

[Lazy O]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/203/685/conspiracy-keanu.jpg?1321901003

[gamegeek2]

Sounds like a job for...

...me I guess

[antisocialmunky]

It looks like they *sunglasses* got tired to being nerfed.

[vartan]

It looks like they *sunglasses* got tired to being nerfed.

Alright Caruso, why haven't you been active lately? No time for play?

[vartan]

http://ebportal.tk/wp/2012/08/01/ebot-2012-august-more/

Released July score report and replay pack. August now in session.

[-Stormrage-]

Yah about that. I'm not going to be playing his month :)

See you guys around.