American Theocons and Muslims Agree: End Hotel Porn!

[Lemur]

It's nice to see the theocons and imams finding common ground: Ending the pernicious evil of hotel porn (http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2012/07/5815). See, renting screens for private porn is JUST LIKE segregation, 'cause it is.

We write to ask you to stop offering pornographic movies in your company’s hotels. [...] We are, respectively, a Christian and a Muslim, but we appeal to you not on the basis of truths revealed in our scriptures but on the basis of a commitment that should be shared by all people of reason and goodwill: a commitment to human dignity and the common good. As teachers and as parents, we seek a society in which young people are encouraged to respect others and themselves—treating no one as an impersonal object or thing. We hope that you share our desire to build such a society. [...]

[W]e trust that you need no reminding of the fact that something’s being legal does not make it right. For example, denying black men and women and their families access to hotel rooms—and tables in restaurants, as well as other amenities and opportunities—was, for countless shameful years, perfectly legal. In some circumstances, it even made financial sense for hotel owners and operators in racist cultures to engage in segregationist practices even when not compelled by law to do so. However, this was deeply morally wrong. Shame on those who denied their brothers and sisters of color the equal treatment to which they were morally entitled. Shame on you if you hide behind legality to peddle immorality in the pursuit of money.

[HoreTore]

I love the term "Theocon". Thank you, Lemur.

[Major Robert Dump]

Porn is not treating someone as an impersonal object. There is nothing more personal than intercourse. These people are stupid. Without porn, men would go crazy and go on shooting rampages when their wives get fat and grew beards. There are those who say "well he could have sex with his wife" to which I respond LOLZOR

[drone]

I fail to see how hotels make any money on PPV pr0n when most hotels offer free wifi. :inquisitive:

[Vuk]

Porn is not treating someone as an impersonal object. There is nothing more personal than intercourse. These people are stupid. Without porn, men would go crazy and go on shooting rampages when their wives get fat and grew beards. There are those who say "well he could have sex with his wife" to which I respond LOLZOR

Men would go on shooting rampages when their wives got fat? That is 10000 million times more ridiculous than the article in the OP ever could be. And then to think that two members were thankful for it! LOL!
The fact that someone would say something like seem indicative to me that he is way too obsessed with sex...probably as a result of watching too much porn, and is now grasping at straws to make arguments in favor of keeping up his habit.

[Lemur]

keeping up
Heh heh. You said "keeping up."

[Major Robert Dump]

I fail to see how hotels make any money on PPV pr0n when most hotels offer free wifi. :inquisitive:

PPV Porn is an "event" where you invite the guys and the family over, just like UFC or the Super Bowl.

When looking for something more personal with the lady, shopping for the right movie to watch during your date, is not unlike the two of you shopping for a new bed together, or browsing the produce section for the perfect eggplant. Once you read the descriptions and find the right pornographic movie, it is the perfect compliment for a sexy hotel stay while enjoying Carls Jr takeout and sipping ice cold Schlitz.

These are things mountain men like Vuk will never understand

[Vuk]

Oh yes major dump, Vuk will never understand how a guy would be completely justified in murdering his wife because she got fat if he could not watch porn. Mr. Women's rights to the rescue!

[Centurion1]

Vuk tames his wild sexless soul by growing corn which by the by makes him the strongest man in the world.

Did you know Vuk fought both Klitschko brothers and beat them using only punches straight to the forehead and with one hand tied behind his back since he said his farm labor training regimen was an unfair advantage. His hands remain unbroken.

[Fragony]

PPV Porn is an "event" where you invite the guys and the family over, just like UFC or the Super Bowl.

When looking for something more personal with the lady, shopping for the right movie to watch during your date, is not unlike the two of you shopping for a new bed together, or browsing the produce section for the perfect eggplant. Once you read the descriptions and find the right pornographic movie, it is the perfect compliment for a sexy hotel stay while enjoying Carls Jr takeout and sipping ice cold Schlitz.

These are things mountain men like Vuk will never understand

There are also some things you don't understand, porn is a harsh world, not everybody is in it for the fun

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/2145601/36e45c84/mishandeling_op_de_pr0nset.html

[Major Robert Dump]

There are also some things you don't understand, porn is a harsh world, not everybody is in it for the fun

http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/2145601/36e45c84/mishandeling_op_de_pr0nset.html

Cry me a river. And here I thought it was all pecan pie and puppy dogs. People are selling their bodies. Some enjoy it, some don't. Read the fine print on your contracts, just like in the real world.

If they want to regulate the "workforce" then they should. But thinking women will stop selling their bodies to old men anytime soon is retarded. Google yourself Backpage + any major US city and check the escorts section. There are hundreds of ads PER DAY. In fact, if they legalized prostitution in the puritanical country, we might see the porn industry simmer down and perhaps become a legitimate form of work.

[Fragony]

Cry me a river. And here I thought it was all pecan pie and puppy dogs. People are selling their bodies. Some enjoy it, some don't. Read the fine print on your contracts, just like in the real world.

If they want to regulate the "workforce" then they should. But thinking women will stop selling their bodies to old men anytime soon is retarded. Google yourself Backpage + any major US city and check the escorts section. There are hundreds of ads PER DAY. In fact, if they legalized prostitution in the puritanical country, we might see the porn industry simmer down and perhaps become a legitimate form of work.

Sure all that, but it's not harmless fun. I like harmless.

[Lemur]

Sure all that, but it's not harmless fun. I like harmless.
Your iPad was made by enslaved hobbits in a post-industrial wasteland Shire. Deal with it.

Porn, like any industry, has its dregs and losers. But I'd be willing to bet you see more real work done to create real products in the San Fernando Valley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Fernando_Valley#Adult_entertainment) than I did in my eight years on Wall Street (http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/03/is-wall-street-full-of-psychopaths/254944/).

[Fragony]

Your iPad was made by enslaved hobbits in a post-industrial wasteland Shire. Deal with it.

If you take that statement and apply it on the porn-industry, does it feel right to you

[Kralizec]

Of course not. Why would Lemur be interested in porn made with hobbits?

[Fragony]

Of course not. Why would Lemur be interested in porn made with hobbits?

Was a major hit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4QAlt4Sfl7Q&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[Lemur]

Why would Lemur be interested in porn made with hobbits?
Uhh ... no reason .. that would be absurd ...

https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v489/Lemurmania/samfrodo.jpg

[Tellos Athenaios]

Your iPad was made by enslaved hobbits in a post-industrial wasteland Shire.

Your iPad was made by people who quite likely chose that line of work as it pays rather better and comes with benefits and such than you could dream of for most white collar work you could ever hope to get fresh out of university with a degree. Foxconn may not be panda hugging hipsters who only require you to grow some bamboo whilst meditating on your balance with nature or some such but they are not comparable to the porn industry either. Rather more comparable to moaning about those poor overworked Wall Street types who take to various unhealthy substances to relieve stress and have to suffer New York, or some such. Hence why we don't (should not) look to China for moral guidance or inspiration on how to deal with the workforce.


Deal with it. Now that I would agree with if it weren't for the fact that we're quite obviously not talking about the "Vanilla" style of porn.

Watched that clip, the point is not that people don't chose to go into the line of work, or don't understand it's not going to be "easy" or even remotely enjoyable. Regardless of whatever else you may think of the Theocon undertones of that clip Fragony posted, the point is that often enough the not so vanilla stuff comes with something (especially attitude) that in all other lines of work would be classified as "abuse".

It's pretty much recognised in all lines of work that if you subject people to stress, dangerous and potentially fatal conditions that employees and employer have a basic responsibility to treat each other with concern for safety, health and well being. Issue is that in porn (and prostitution for that matter) there are plenty of outfits that fail to observe that basic principle, so calling for regulation is not wrong per se.

Now you could argue that uhm, yeah, that's what she signed up for so she should deal with it. The counter point to this is that abuse remains, well, abuse and as far as I am aware (or concerned) that remains "wrong". We have all sorts of protection clauses in most line of work to prevent employers from shafting employees with small print, and outright ban abuse -- I don't see why the same shouldn't be enforced in porn.

[Montmorency]

We write to ask you to stop offering pornographic movies in your company’s hotels. [...] We are, respectively, a Christian and a Muslim, but we appeal to you not on the basis of truths revealed in our scriptures but on the basis of a commitment that should be shared by all people of reason and goodwill: a commitment to human dignity and the common good. As teachers and as parents, we seek a society in which young people are encouraged to respect others and themselves—treating no one as an impersonal object or thing. We hope that you share our desire to build such a society. [...]

[W]e trust that you need no reminding of the fact that something’s being legal does not make it right. For example, denying black men and women and their families access to hotel rooms—and tables in restaurants, as well as other amenities and opportunities—was, for countless shameful years, perfectly legal. In some circumstances, it even made financial sense for hotel owners and operators in racist cultures to engage in segregationist practices even when not compelled by law to do so. However, this was deeply morally wrong. Shame on those who denied their brothers and sisters of color the equal treatment to which they were morally entitled. Shame on you if you hide behind legality to peddle immorality in the pursuit of money.

:thinking:

So that's what Sasaki Kojiro has been up to lately.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Well that's another thing of course. It all smacks of typical "theocon" (rather like that word) desire, if not hunger, to appropriate all aspects of public life without regard to the fact that they might just be a different world out there full of people who'd much rather they all went away instead of "taking their liberties".

You've got to give them credit for cynically appropriating the whole segregation thing though. I mean it's almost funny in a Blackadder II sort of way, but without the subtlety.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBhTIoIXoTI

[Viking]

Hobbits.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IqSwPlFkb8I

Christians and Muslims uniting for particular causes? I expect more of it, so much in common. We'll see more PDA.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Hotels can ban porn and then deal with the ramifications (positive and negative) from their guests. There is no reason why a privately owned chain should be unable to decide what channels it put into it's rooms or internet services to provide. If guests like it, they can stay, if not, they can not stay. No government order should force them to provide it or to ban it, however.

[Moros]

I like redheads and bubble buts. Am I going to hell?

[Greyblades]

You are if you use bubble but in your vocabulary.

[Moros]

You are if you use bubble but in your volcabulary.
:inquisitive:

Then we shall meet again.

[PanzerJaeger]

Now you could argue that uhm, yeah, that's what she signed up for so she should deal with it. The counter point to this is that abuse remains, well, abuse and as far as I am aware (or concerned) that remains "wrong".

Define 'abuse' in this context, please.

[spankythehippo]

Watching porn is just like maintaining a factory. Every once in a while, you should release the valves.

Everyone should wear a PSI meter on their crotch. When the needle goes into the red zone, take a moment and excuse yourself. Thank you Louis CK, for empowering masturbation everywhere.

[Greyblades]

:inquisitive:

Then we shall meet again.

Ah if only this was the "cure for nazism" thread; then me calling you a grammar/spelling nazi would be funny instead of whiney.

[Sarmatian]

Well, it's hard to worry about women being abused when you're watching Abused Women #53.

I say ban those two guys who wrote the letter. Since it's one Christian and one Muslim, no one could accuse anybody of racism.

[classical_hero]

I just love how your urges are very important, and yet the industry is basically the most abusive one in the world. I know who to ask for advice for help. :rolleyes:

[Lemur]

the industry is basically the most abusive one in the world.
Needs citation, as the Wiki kids would say. More abusive than child soldiers (http://www.child-soldiers.org/childsoldiers/child-soldiers)? More abusive than hand-mining (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/01/12/mercury-gold-mining-a-third-world-toxic-threat.html)? And what's your metric for "abusive," anyway? Are we talking about physical danger? 'Cause if that's the case, deep-sea fishermen have every profession beat. Or ... what?

[HoreTore]

Needs citation, as the Wiki kids would say. More abusive than child soldiers (http://www.child-soldiers.org/childsoldiers/child-soldiers)? More abusive than hand-mining (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/01/12/mercury-gold-mining-a-third-world-toxic-threat.html)? And what's your metric for "abusive," anyway? Are we talking about physical danger? 'Cause if that's the case, deep-sea fishermen have every profession beat. Or ... what?

Abuse in an industry has of course nothing to do with physical harm or injuries. It has to do with the power-relations between employee and employer etcetera. Fishermen have proper working conditions; they have contracts which specifies their terms, unions to call in for assistance, an opportunity to go on strike, and so on.

While I have no desire to shut down the porn industry, it could most certainly require some regulation. There are plenty of undesirable things going on there, and it's not hyperbole or hysteria to want to some more control and government oversight.

[Strike For The South]

I just love how your urges are very important, and yet the industry is basically the most abusive one in the world. I know who to ask for advice for help. :rolleyes:

I love how your indignation is so very important. Hating porn is so second wave feminism. Third wave feminism is all about sexual empowerment.

You sound like an aging hippie.

[Vuk]

I love how your indignation is so very important. Hating porn is so second wave feminism. Third wave feminism is all about sexual empowerment.

You sound like an aging hippie.

And everyone knows that if something is not popular at this moment, it must be wrong! Let's see...rape jokes are popular now, so I guess that means they are all good, right Strike?

[Centurion1]

And everyone knows that if something is not popular at this moment, it must be wrong! Let's see...rape jokes are popular now, so I guess that means they are all good, right Strike?

Right! Just like using farm work as a method of training your body to be superior to all those inferior modern athletes!!!!!


alas what do I know i'm just a pudgy man whos never done anything but fight my brothers in my backyard and post indignant online rants.

oh wait....

[Strike For The South]

And everyone knows that if something is not popular at this moment, it must be wrong! Let's see...rape jokes are popular now, so I guess that means they are all good, right Strike?

Who said anything about rape? You're disgusting!

[Major Robert Dump]

I just love how your urges are very important, and yet the industry is basically the most abusive one in the world. I know who to ask for advice for help. :rolleyes:

Then clean it up. It's not unlike the issue of "illegal" drug use. Politicians just avoid the topic altogether, or they outright try to ban it.

The mainstream film industry is unionized through and through. One thing that needs to happen is they need to clamp down on western productions companies travelling to third world countries and paying women pennies on the dollar, and they have even less protection there, then they come back and sell the porn to the west. Maybe Romney and Obama can discuss this in their outsourcing debate.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Define 'abuse' in this context, please.

Have you ever seen "Milk Maidens 6"? Pretty sure their health insurance doesn't cover rampant, violent, yeast infections.

Also, when you play 18 rounds of anal mini golf, the elasticity of the human butt muscles are over extended. Trust me about that one.

[Montmorency]

Trust me about that one.

I didn't realize you were having that much trouble with tuition bills...

[a completely inoffensive name]

I didn't realize you were having that much trouble with tuition bills...

It's easier and more exciting than trying to teach senior citizens how to computer.


Also, nice birdie on the 14th hole buddy.

[Major Robert Dump]

Have you ever seen "Milk Maidens 6"? Pretty sure their health insurance doesn't cover rampant, violent, yeast infections.

Also, when you play 18 rounds of anal mini golf, the elasticity of the human butt muscles are over extended. Trust me about that one.

Again, all voluntary.

** edit
Mostly voluntary.
I know a lot of females are ambushed with anal sex on their first shoots. They can decline. Maybe there is threat not to get paid, which boils down to contracts and girls not knowing what they are getting in to. But in the end, in most cases it is voluntary


As for the milk thing, they knew what they were doing

[a completely inoffensive name]

Again, all voluntary.

Pretty sure the bacteria are an unwanted 3rd party.....

[PanzerJaeger]

Have you ever seen "Milk Maidens 6"? Pretty sure their health insurance doesn't cover rampant, violent, yeast infections.

Also, when you play 18 rounds of anal mini golf, the elasticity of the human butt muscles are over extended. Trust me about that one.

I'm guessing that's not my kind of film.

In any event, that is exactly what I mean. Abuse is much less clear cut in porn than other industries. As discussed in Sasaki's thread, sexual tolerances vary by person. What you may consider abusive, I may enjoy - or at least find tolerable in exchange for a sum of money.

That's why the line in the sand on porn should be choice.

[Moros]

Those who never masturbated to some form of digital media, cast the first stone.


Females don't count obviously...

[a completely inoffensive name]

Those who never masturbated to some form of digital media, cast the first stone.


Females don't count obviously...

If you replace "to" with "on" that may make the conversation a lot more interesting.

[Montmorency]

If you replace "to" with "on" that may make the conversation a lot more interesting.


Those who never masturbated on some form of digital media, cast the first sonne.

Sonne is German for sun. Now it's basically an exhortation to masturbate directed at autoerotic initiates.

Very clever, ACIN.

:2thumbsup:

[Major Robert Dump]

Pretty sure the bacteria are an unwanted 3rd party.....

Thats like someone paying you 20 dollars to eat a turd and then when you get hepatitis C blaming someone else.

I find it hard to believe that an adult woman is not aware that putting certain things in her no-no can result in certain nasty side effects. Bring me a third worlder and I will believe it, but not western girls.

[Centurion1]

Thats like someone paying you 20 dollars to eat a turd and then when you get hepatitis C blaming someone else.

I find it hard to believe that an adult woman is not aware that putting certain things in her no-no can result in certain nasty side effects. Bring me a third worlder and I will believe it, but not western girls.

Sir, I call that into contention. If you mean to tell me a farm raised girl, which I know on good authority results in supe rintelligent and incredibly fit specimens wouldn't know that sticking goat milk in her hoo hah was bad for her I question your intelligence sah.

No in all serious I would imagine a third worlder would know better than anyone milk does not belong in her marianas trench (im running out of silly names)

[Montmorency]

No in all serious I would imagine a third worlder would know better than anyone milk does not belong in her marianas trench (im running out of silly names)

"Ladies shouldn't be drinking that kind of milk with their lower mouths..."

[Fragony]

Needs citation, as the Wiki kids would say. More abusive than child soldiers (http://www.child-soldiers.org/childsoldiers/child-soldiers)? More abusive than hand-mining (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2009/01/12/mercury-gold-mining-a-third-world-toxic-threat.html)? And what's your metric for "abusive," anyway? Are we talking about physical danger? 'Cause if that's the case, deep-sea fishermen have every profession beat. Or ... what?

That's there, here's here. If there is any abuse we ought to do something against it, it's just the best we can do.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Solution for Theocons and Muslims: Don't watch porn.

Some religious people turn to the pages of the Bible for inspiration. After a long and very hard day, I sometimes wax my carrot, and I also turn to certain pages for inspiration. The trouble is, over time, the pages get hard to turn, and that is why I learned how to computer.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Uh oh, here's trouble. Now my web pages are sticking together.

[Papewaio]

Well webs are naturally sticky.

As for milk causing yeast infections, not 100% convinced.

But isnt natural yogurt a cure?

So with one dairy product it giveth he other it taketh away.

[rory_20_uk]

Webs are not naturally sticky. The glue on the webs is.
Yeast causes yeast infections.
Natural yogourt provides bacteria to compete with the yeast.

~:smoking:

[Noncommunist]

Those who never masturbated to some form of digital media, cast the first stone.


Females don't count obviously...

I don't do that.

[Sarmatian]

I don't do that.

You don't masturbate at all or you simply prefer good ole hard cover?

[Moros]

You don't masturbate at all or you simply prefer good ole hard cover?
Or he doesn't mind spending a lot of money. ~;)

[Major Robert Dump]

It's not called "hard cover"

We call it "analog" these days

[Askthepizzaguy]

It's not called "hard cover"

We call it "analog" these days

I hope he at least sands it down and polishes it first.

[lars573]

I don't do that.
50% of men masturbate, the other 50% are liars.

[Kadagar_AV]

Once again, I never understood why people need to interfere with what other people do?

Ok, so you dont like porn. Don't watch it then.

Sometimes it's just as simple as that.

[Major Robert Dump]

Because people of religion need brownie points, which you get from purifying the world.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Once again, I never understood why people need to interfere with what other people do?

Ok, so you dont like porn. Don't watch it then.

Sometimes it's just as simple as that.

Life is a bit more complicated than that at times. The line certainly isn't drawn at porn, but there is a line.

[Kadagar_AV]

Life is a bit more complicated than that at times. The line certainly isn't drawn at porn, but there is a line.

Agreed, that's why we have democrazy and stuff.

I for one am utterly disturbed by fat women with low cut jeans and small tops. Seeing that fat bump stick out makes me actually want to kick them in the face.

HOWEVER, I wouldnt.

I wouldnt make a fuss about it either. Ok so it disturbs me, but THEY would get more disturbed if I called disturbance... If you get what I mean. Just live and let live... And accept that people are allowed to be different from you, as long as they don't hurt others.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I wouldnt make a fuss about it either. Ok so it disturbs me, but THEY would get more disturbed if I called disturbance... If you get what I mean. Just live and let live... And accept that people are allowed to be different from you, as long as they don't hurt others.

Define "hurt others".

[Kadagar_AV]

Define "hurt others".

Doing something to others they do not wish nor ask for.

[Major Robert Dump]

I will define "hurting others."

Seeing front butt in sweatpants resting on the ground as it laps over the chair on the bench at wal mart, and then seeing said front butt owners thong and upper buttocks/lower back area when she stands up to move to her fat people cart in her low rider sweatpants with the word JUICY on the butt.

Children should not bear witness to such things.

I might also add that she is probably on medicaid and SSI, living on the public dime, and being too fat to work is also on food stamps.

But eating herself into obesity is perfectly legal, whereas people on this board advocate that women whould not be ble to voluntarily engage in P4P.

Give me a break

[a completely inoffensive name]

Doing something to others they do not wish nor ask for.

Define "something". Bear with me, my point will become clear.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I will define "hurting others."

Seeing front butt in sweatpants resting on the ground as it laps over the chair on the bench at wal mart, and then seeing said front butt owners thong and upper buttocks/lower back area when she stands up to move to her fat people cart in her low rider sweatpants with the word JUICY on the butt.

Children should not bear witness to such things.

I might also add that she is probably on medicaid and SSI, living on the public dime, and being too fat to work is also on food stamps.

But eating herself into obesity is perfectly legal, whereas people on this board advocate that women whould not be ble to voluntarily engage in P4P.

Give me a break

This is why "something" needs to be defined.

EDIT: To explain, obviously using "something" creates a very vague definition. Almost every action someone makes will impart an effect on someone. Is "something" confined merely to physical effects, mental effects, economic effects, a mix of all or some?

[Major Robert Dump]

A Gunt is a deadly weapon when wielded properly

[Kadagar_AV]

This is why "something" needs to be defined.

EDIT: To explain, obviously using "something" creates a very vague definition. Almost every action someone makes will impart an effect on someone. Is "something" confined merely to physical effects, mental effects, economic effects, a mix of all or some?

I see where you are going, but it just doesn't work in this case.

When you do porn, you have to sign about umpteenth contracts saying you are OK with it.

I would most def NOT like someone to go monkey on my bum, but know what, if I was so stupid I had signed several contracts allowing him to do just that, I wouldn't complain about it.

Heck, it probably wouldn't even make the top list of weird things in my life :laugh4:

[a completely inoffensive name]

I see where you are going, but it just doesn't work in this case.

When you do porn, you have to sign about umpteenth contracts saying you are OK with it.

I would most def NOT like someone to go monkey on my bum, but know what, if I was so stupid I had signed several contracts allowing him to do just that, I wouldn't complain about it.

Heck, it probably wouldn't even make the top list of weird things in my life :laugh4:

We already agreed that porn is not where the line is drawn. I am just trying to get the argument for "why not?" to move beyond a simple feel good statement.

[Major Robert Dump]

Well I suppose we could have mandatory counseling sessions and universal porn contracts that warn of the dangers involved.

But golly wouldn't that fly in the face of people who approve of abortion-on-demand? All that "it's my body" talk and look where it gets us.

So what's more psychologically damaging, being buggered on film for $5000 or aborting your unborn child?

[Lemur]

It's probably just that I'm tired, but I don't see how you go from universal porn contracts to abortion. There seems to be a missing link there. Feel free to clarify.

Also feel free to bring up gun control, Hitler, global warming and Ron Paul, as necessary.

[Major Robert Dump]

It's probably just that I'm tired, but I don't see how you go from universal porn contracts to abortion. There seems to be a missing link there. Feel free to clarify.

Also feel free to bring up gun control, Hitler, global warming and Ron Paul, as necessary.


The freedom to make decisions about your own body. Seems like a fairly obvious connection to me.

[a completely inoffensive name]

It's probably just that I'm tired, but I don't see how you go from universal porn contracts to abortion. There seems to be a missing link there. Feel free to clarify.

Also feel free to bring up gun control, Hitler, global warming and Ron Paul, as necessary.

If it wasn't for gun control, Ron Paul would have killed Hitler before he started his global warming machine at the center of the earth.

[Kadagar_AV]

ACIN, fair point.

I don't know what to say... We have a juridical system to deal with some things. We have a democrazy to deal with other things...

What these people are trying to do is something in between, moral pressure on business owners.

I WOULD say I think it's wrong but then, I don't. I work as a teacher, educating the young people of today in history among other subjects. My best friend did Battlefield Vietnam, where the same said kids learn that the US troopers were buff guys with an average age of 30ish, and that that war was about gloriously even battles.

His yearly bonus was more than my years salary last time I checked.

It's a ****** up world...

[Major Robert Dump]

If it wasn't for gun control, Ron Paul would have killed Hitler before he started his global warming machine at the center of the earth.

Yeah. Yuk it up. I can kill myself with food, alcohol, cigarettes and even get abortions. But god forbid someone pay me for sex, that is just too self destructive.

Or is this just a woman thing?

Yeah, I notice no one sticking up for those sad little gay boys who are tricked into doing movies and ruining their lives. Not that I have caught a lot of gay porn lately, but I would imagine that in most someone is playing the catcher, so to speak. Where is the outraaaaaaage? Surely those gay boys don't do that sort of thing in their personal lives, don't even go there, they are just doing that for drugs and money and because they were abused as kids.

Just admit it.

We all want to have our cake and eat it, too.

An obese guy preaching about the dangers of porn. And an alcoholic stumping about the dangers of marijuana.

Americans are nothing of not hypocrites.

[a completely inoffensive name]

ACIN, fair point.

I don't know what to say... We have a juridical system to deal with some things. We have a democrazy to deal with other things...

What these people are trying to do is something in between, moral pressure on business owners.

I WOULD say I think it's wrong but then, I don't. I work as a teacher, educating the young people of today in history among other subjects. My best friend did Battlefield Vietnam, where the same said kids learn that the US troopers were buff guys with an average age of 30ish, and that that war was about gloriously even battles.

His yearly bonus was more than my years salary last time I checked.

It's a ****** up world...

I think it is acceptable by internet standards to simply say that by engaging in the act of prostitution, you are certainly not enacting a negative effect economically on someone, the sex industry is a healthy part of the larger economy and having it grow sets no one back. Physically there is no harm on another person, the two having sex are consenting adults. Psychologically there is the argument to be made that no mental scarring or damage is actually being done upon others, merely disgust from people who find the industry distasteful. The psychological argument is the most gray because to dismiss it entirely means dismissing the damage that extreme acts such as suicide imparts on others, but being too lenient makes it rife for abuse.


Yeah. Yuk it up. I can kill myself with food, alcohol, cigarettes and even get abortions. But god forbid someone pay me for sex, that is just too self destructive.

Or is this just a woman thing?

Yeah, I notice no one sticking up for those sad little gay boys who are tricked into doing movies and ruining their lives. Not that I have caught a lot of gay porn lately, but I would imagine that in most someone is playing the catcher, so to speak. Where is the outraaaaaaage? Surely those gay boys don't do that sort of thing in their personal lives, don't even go there, they are just doing that for drugs and money and because they were abused as kids.

Just admit it.

We all want to have our cake and eat it, too.

An obese guy preaching about the dangers of porn. And an alcoholic stumping about the dangers of marijuana.

Americans are nothing of not hypocrites.

What exactly is the world you are arguing to live in?

[Major Robert Dump]

Uranus

[Fragony]

Yeah. Yuk it up. I can kill myself with food, alcohol, cigarettes and even get abortions. But god forbid someone pay me for sex, that is just too self destructive.

Or is this just a woman thing?

Yeah, I notice no one sticking up for those sad little gay boys who are tricked into doing movies and ruining their lives. Not that I have caught a lot of gay porn lately, but I would imagine that in most someone is playing the catcher, so to speak. Where is the outraaaaaaage? Surely those gay boys don't do that sort of thing in their personal lives, don't even go there, they are just doing that for drugs and money and because they were abused as kids.

Just admit it.

We all want to have our cake and eat it, too.

An obese guy preaching about the dangers of porn. And an alcoholic stumping about the dangers of marijuana.

Americans are nothing of not hypocrites.

It's not exclusive

[Moros]

6341
:shrug:

[Strike For The South]

I don't think porn is a good thing. I don't think it is a moral thing.

I am also extremely worried that the lions share of porn viewers are young men and they get their social cues about how to treat women from these films.

I also can't swallow Lemurs anecdotes about his GenX, Bohemian, liberal arts buddies working in a positive sex industry. I realize they, and some get out unscathed but on the whole this is not the case.

But now I find myself agreeing with Vuk and that causes palpations

[Strike For The South]

Yeah. Yuk it up. I can kill myself with food, alcohol, cigarettes and even get abortions. But god forbid someone pay me for sex, that is just too self destructive.

Or is this just a woman thing?

Yeah, I notice no one sticking up for those sad little gay boys who are tricked into doing movies and ruining their lives. Not that I have caught a lot of gay porn lately, but I would imagine that in most someone is playing the catcher, so to speak. Where is the outraaaaaaage? Surely those gay boys don't do that sort of thing in their personal lives, don't even go there, they are just doing that for drugs and money and because they were abused as kids.

Just admit it.

We all want to have our cake and eat it, too.

An obese guy preaching about the dangers of porn. And an alcoholic stumping about the dangers of marijuana.

Americans are nothing of not hypocrites.

A cynic?

How cool!

[Major Robert Dump]

Saying that young men get their social cues on women from porn is the same as saying XBOX games turn kids into violent criminals.

Yes. There will be some. I have met some. Particularly prevelant in rural, uneducated and inner city, uneducated circles.

And that should not ruin it for the rest of us.

And yes, I am a cynic. I suppose you are suggesting it's just a phase?

[Strike For The South]

No it's not. I think video games on the whole can be detrimental, but that is another thread.

Internet porn is a game changer and it permeates the entire society. I have my ear to the ground on other sites which would be considered macho and on all of them groups have popped dealing with internet porn. Many young men, are beginning to realize the depression/ADD they were diagnosed with really stems from a habitual use of internet porn. Sex is primal and it releases dopamine in the brain at scary levels, especially when novelty (tube sites) gets thrown into the picture. You might be willing to chalk this up to weak will on the part of the men whom inhabit these forums but that would require an indictment of a lot of men who are very successful in other aspects of life.

We are seeing the first results of people raised on the internet and by consequence, its porn. Studies come down the pike every year documenting ED in young men with internet porn at its center.

The other larger social impact of porn is objectifying women. I am no fan of some of things feminists tout but some good changes that we have witnessed in the past few decades are in danger of being undone because the internet is big into co-modifying women as things that only exisist for male pleasure. This is rampant on the internet as a whole but porn is a center piece of it.

I do not think it should be illegal, as occasional viewing and fapping is a natural part of a healthy libido but we are seeing young men who have been inundated since pubetry with the stuff developing real issues. You can not tell me something isn't rotten in the state of Denmark.

[Major Robert Dump]

Of course things are rotten. And of course I think people with these problems are weaklings.

Back when I ws a young man before the internet, if I wanted romance I had to listen to girls rant about NSync, take them to Sonic, meet their parents. It was truly exhausting.

But what about gay porn and women who watch porn?

I wonder how many women hate porn because it means they cannot control their man with their vagina anymore? Worth a look.

I like porn because it saves me time. Cruising for hookers is so time consuming and dangerous, and the cost of gas now is crazy.

Regulate away. No problems with that at all. But the people calling for its abolishment are hypocrites.

[Strike For The South]

I never called to abolish or regulate anything. It would be a futile endeavor anyway.

People are sexual beings, it would stand to reason that all types would indulge in porn at some point. The problem is these young men do it from a young age and habitually. Women are certainly not using it to that degree. I will admit the gay community is a blind spot for me but I will ask around.

Men and women whom seek to control the other gender are equally wrong. The second wave feminism that gave us 20 years of terrible sitcoms with the dimwitted husband and hot wife are finally being critiqued on that plank of the platform. Relationships should not be centered around control and leverage.

Both feminism and the mens rights movement can be summed up in a single sentence. A breakdown in bonding and communication has led to both genders being disappointed with their courtship and sex lives; some have found the convenient way out, which is to blame the other sex. Now of course both sides do bring up valid points about some of the various inequities of society.

The bigger problem is we fed bullshit caricatures of what a man and woman should be like, the internet has only exacerbated these and young men are the target audience of its most vicious agent, porn.

[Major Robert Dump]

I know you were not calling for the abolishment. I am referring to the Ghost People and The Man.

Porn was bound to go mainstream when women are objectified at lesser levels since our youth in the form of cheerleaders, ring girls, strip clubs, random tits in maintream 80s movies, mens magazines, the sitcom characters you speak of. We have to look all the way back to those things, although they are obviously far less abusive and damaging.

[Strike For The South]

I agree with you to an extent. Older forms of objectification are subsiding.

I think the internet has changed the parameters and fear my generation will lack some basic social skills. I see more women now whom base their value around sex and use it, like you alluded to for control and advancement. I also see men who fail to realize women are in fact people. I firmly belive this comes from over saturation of carictured genders in the media. Unfortunately my generation is always with these things, its in our pockets.
a
We have a society that is on the verge of life imitating art. immoral and unethical behaviors are shown as the norm. I don't like it.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Sexual identity is only a Victorian era construct that should be abolished. Sexual desires are on a continuum not placed into categories.

I read this from an article by a guy who said he read Foucault, so now I am smarter and thus must try to interject my new knowledge into this conversation.

[Strike For The South]

Sexual identity is only a Victorian era construct that should be abolished. Sexual desires are on a continuum not placed into categories.

I read this from an article by a guy who said he read Foucault, so now I am smarter and thus must try to interject my new knowledge into this conversation.

Everyone has a sexual identity. The Victorian "spheres" that are oft referenced are overplayed and generally juxtaposed to our time only. Looking at a larger swath of history the Victorian era can be seen as a largely liberating time period. I haven't read Foucalt so I can't comment on that.

Do you have anything constructive to add?

[a completely inoffensive name]

Everyone has a sexual identity. The Victorian "spheres" that are oft referenced are overplayed and generally juxtaposed to our time only. Looking at a larger swath of history the Victorian era can be seen as a largely liberating time period. I haven't read Foucalt so I can't comment on that.

Do you have anything constructive to add?

Ummmmmmm, sure.

In all honesty, I think the problems regarding gender relationships you see stemming from the internet are not set in stone among the young men you claim are tainted by the availability of porn.

In what little amount of time we have to base off of, I think that there is a large possibility that what we see is nothing more than the established tradition of mainstream appeal of a previously isolated subculture. Elders worried about the "fast and loose" nature of the rock and roll scene of the 1950s and I think the same is happening with the internet culture that has pervaded this generation of youth. The originators of today's internet culture as we know it (since "internet culture" was never a static thing) come primarily from the really socially inept kids of the recent past in places like 4chan and like minded boards. As what happens with any culturally strong sub group, others want to join the bandwagon and partake in the in-jokes not realizing the consequences of joining.

Just as previous sub-cultures that were popularized had youth stapling their faces with metal and/or wearing all black with spiked shoulders, the socially inept standards of the modern internet culture are now adapted by regular kids who try to communicate on that level not because they genuinely are socially inept but because society dictates that that is the mainstream way of showing how in tune and cool of a person you are.

The reality behind the scenes is usually much more egalitarian than we think. An example is the idea of video games as a youth oriented activity dominated by males. The stats show that a percentage not that far away from 50% of gamers are indeed girls. And the average age of someone who partakes in playing video games regularly is in the upper 20's to lower 30's.

I have a feeling that when internet memes and culture subsides, we will see people behaving much more accordingly to what we hope to see in regards to gender treatment.

My evidence is anecdotal but I have to say, I have never met someone who had the balls to follow through on the dark side of what internet culture promotes when face to face with a real live person who actually has a sliver of self esteem within him/her.

EDIT: What does this specifically have to do with porn? Well, the prevalence of porn on the internet is tied into the larger internet culture, and once the idea that becoming an expert on sasha gray through her years is more weird than awesome, the amount of porn watching that males go through will decrease as well.

Also problems with excessive porn watching tie into the lack of activities that modern youth have due to various factors. Boring suburban towns with curfews and helicopter parents make kids under the age of 16 choose between playing video games/porn all night or doing drugs and breaking laws.

[Strike For The South]

Video games, rock music, etc are all ways in which we divy up our leisure time that was bestowed upon us by the industrial revolution. The problem is, it is now literally on our hip and we become consumed by it.

Sex is primal, and porn can tap into that. I'm interested in the results of consumption, and the trends are worrying.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Video games, rock music, etc are all ways in which we divy up our leisure time that was bestowed upon us by the industrial revolution. The problem is, it is now literally on our hip and we become consumed by it.
Sex is primal, and porn can tap into that. I'm interested in the results of consumption, and the trends are worrying.

Could you explain what these trends are? Every time I hear someone talk about the violence promoted by video games I seem to recall the FBI department of statistics reporting that violent crime in the US has continued to decline since the early 1990s.

[Strike For The South]

I am not talking about violence in video games. If a kid wants to shoot Zombies instead of playing baseball, that's fine. He is just reallocating his leisure time.

I am talking about porn, its habitual use, and the effects of that habitual use one the brain. I also have many ideas about how this is playing in modern society. I have gone over them though.

[a completely inoffensive name]

I am not talking about violence in video games. If a kid wants to shoot Zombies instead of playing baseball, that's fine. He is just reallocating his leisure time.

I am talking about porn, its habitual use, and the effects of that habitual use one the brain. I also have many ideas about how this is playing in modern society. I have gone over them though.

I know strike, the point I was making was an analogy between the effects of rising consumption of violent entertainment with the effects of rising consumption of pornography. Violence is just as primal as sex, both have been around since the human race broke off from its ancestors.


Please whack my head with a newspaper like a dog and direct me towards some articles or statistics that highlight the trends you are seeing so that I may learn more. Just like you tried to do to Centurion about those food deserts.

[Strike For The South]

I know strike, the point I was making was an analogy between the effects of rising consumption of violent entertainment with the effects of rising consumption of pornography. Violence is just as primal as sex, both have been around since the human race broke off from its ancestors.
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201203/recent-internet-addiction-studies-include-porn

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201106/ominous-news-porn-users-internet-addiction-atrophies-brains

At least 15-20 studies in those articles alone. Some of the first results that popped up on google



Please whack my head with a newspaper like a dog and direct me towards some articles or statistics that highlight the trends you are seeing so that I may learn more. Just like you tried to do to Centurion about those food deserts.

Are government studies not good enough for you people anymore?

I gave him data like I'm giving you data.

I also could rant about the falbitly of measurement but if the STEM major wants his numbers I will give him his numbers

[Strike For The South]

I can also give you more studies, but like Cent I expect you to stick your head in the sand.

I also don't like that fact Panzer is thanking your posts but that's just me being selfish

[a completely inoffensive name]

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201203/recent-internet-addiction-studies-include-porn

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/cupids-poisoned-arrow/201106/ominous-news-porn-users-internet-addiction-atrophies-brains

At least 15-20 studies in those articles alone. Some of the first results that popped up on google




Are government studies not good enough for you people anymore?

I gave him data like I'm giving you data.

I also could rant about the falbitly of measurement but if the STEM major wants his numbers I will give him his numbers

Thank you for the articles. Yes, I want my damn numbers, you have your way of understanding the world and I have mine.

Being a renaissance man is fucking difficult and my training is narrow. Blame the university system for making general education requirements a joke.

[Strike For The South]

I know that feel bro.