View Full Version : EB2 Dev Blog discussion
Hello,
Topic founded on the discussion of Dev Blog :)
In my opinion this Dev Blog is what we were missing all this time.
Great units cards, especially Nabatean Early Lancer and Machimoi Phalangitai.
I'm really looking forward to next note :)
Brave Brave Sir Robin
07-29-2012, 13:58
I wonder though. Was the A-Team a popular theater show in Ptolemaic Egypt?
I don't understand what kind of question is that. Is it related to the Dev Blog? If not, then please change it to something meaningful or I will delete it because this is meant to be a serious discussion thread and not a circus for clowns.
EDIT: It seems the question was related to the Dev Blog. Good to know.
The Erínamesh ana-Arabim look great too!
BTW are the machimoi spearmen now or he's simply holding the javelin?
JMRC, I think Sir Robin was alluding to the fact he loves it when a plan comes together.
The Erínamesh ana-Arabim look great too!
BTW are the machimoi spearmen now or he's simply holding the javelin?
We can't have swords and spears in the same unit, M2TW engine limitation.
sephwhite
07-29-2012, 20:35
JMRC, I think Sir Robin was alluding to the fact he loves it when a plan comes together.
I think it's due to Mr T being on the shield :)
I think it's due to Mr T being on the shield :)
Apparantly Mr. T took his look from Bes, an Egyptian protector God.
We can't have swords and spears in the same unit, M2TW engine limitation.
Just a small clarification, to avoid some confusion: the engine allows having spears and swords in the same unit, but doesn't deal very well with it. He runs with one weapon, then switches to charge with the other, then switches again during the melee. So, we avoid this combination when we need a real spearmen unit. Still, we have a few cases where we kept the overhand spear and the sword in the same unit.
rickinator9
07-30-2012, 02:25
Just a small clarification, to avoid some confusion: the engine allows having spears and swords in the same unit, but doesn't deal very well with it. He runs with one weapon, then switches to charge with the other, then switches again during the melee. So, we avoid this combination when we need a real spearmen unit. Still, we have a few cases where we kept the overhand spear and the sword in the same unit.
Will the javelin-throw-before-charging move still work?
Brave Brave Sir Robin
07-30-2012, 13:51
Apparantly Mr. T took his look from Bes, an Egyptian protector God.
Sorry JMRC but I was joking about it since I'd never seen a symbol like that. Never heard of this god, I'll have to look him up. Thanks Moros!
Also the East Arabian Spearmen among others look fantastic!
Just a small clarification, to avoid some confusion: the engine allows having spears and swords in the same unit, but doesn't deal very well with it. He runs with one weapon, then switches to charge with the other, then switches again during the melee. So, we avoid this combination when we need a real spearmen unit. Still, we have a few cases where we kept the overhand spear and the sword in the same unit.
This sounds very similar, if not identical, to the way RTW's engine handles such units. For example, Solduros or Hypaspistai.
Nice, this is just what I was looking for. Regular mini-updates that don't require the huge masses of words and work that go into a standard EB update. Hope to see much more of this in the coming weeks. Good idea to whoever thought it up.
Wow! The sneak peaks look amazing (again) and the amount of work done is incredible.
Wow, this Hoplitai Epilektoi are amaizing. Really good stuff :D
https://i981.photobucket.com/albums/ae292/abdeldinar/screens/Sanstitre-2-2.jpg
If you have a 1080p version of this, I'd love to set it as my desktop background. :D
In the third pic of the new sneak (lol Reek rhyme XD), do the sarissa crisscross, due to the lack of a secondary weapon?
If so, I guess they are even more powerful from the front now :P
True arjos and they look awesome just the detail on them
Have to say history really comes to alive
Just looking the sarissa wall it seems so inpassable and makes me think that i would not charge that.
In the third pic of the new sneak (lol Reek rhyme XD), do the sarissa crisscross, due to the lack of a secondary weapon?
If so, I guess they are even more powerful from the front now :P
Yes to both questions.
Man those events and the tribal system are sexy!
I also love the buildings for the various tribes: can't wait to help some and prevent the extinction of my favourites :P
We got to see Bibracte ^^
Poor Bithynioi btw XD
Shadowwalker
08-11-2012, 11:00
It has been a while since I posted here in the EB/EBII forums, I have been following your progress closely though since this is still the mod I'm looking forward to the most (by far).
I remember posting my expectations for the mod a while back and mentioning there that I hope for the extensive use of the event mechanic introduced by MII TW, perhaps even a way to re-introduce the "Glorious Achievements" mechanic from MTW (my favourite feature from that game). Seems you are on your way to do exactly that, can't thank you enough for this. :bow:
That tribal system you just previewed will ensure that playing one of those factions will be so much more complex and rewarding. :yes:
I'd like to ask a few questions about that system though.
(1) Reading the preview about the system somehow gave me the idea that it may well be possible for a defensive/peaceful player (that, for example, doesn't expand much after initial consolidation) to not have/get any chieftains. Did I misunderstood something there or will it indeed be possible to extinct your own faction just because you don't fight enough battles and therefore get no chieftains at all anymore?
(2) Am I right to assume that the three factions you mentioned were only examples and that the system is used for Arverni, Pritanoi, Boii, Getai etc as well? And what about Massylia? The preview for them had plenty of tribes/ethnicities as well, will they get a similar system?
(3) Is it safe to assume that the tribal buildings will affect the availability/replenishment rates for certain units as well? Not in the initial release (since there may just not be enough units) but perhaps in a later version?
(4) I remember reading that the initial release will feature "only" a basic trait/ancillaries system, does this mean that the tribal system will be implemented in a later release only or will it work with the "basic" trait/ancillary system too?
Something different: just have to mention that the campaign map (as far as it has been revealed so far) looks ... well, "breathtaking" would be an understatement in my opinion. I am quite obsessed about campaign map eyecandy and the available screens of your map make me jawdrop over and over again.
And the few examples of events you posted at the end of the preview make me drool, seriously.
Anyway - I have said it a few times already: Take your time, EB Team. I will wait patiently for a few years more if necessary.
The more screenshots you show and the more features/systems you reveal the more I'm sure that EBII will be the definite mod for MII TW.
Oh one thing:
May I ask for a selected few building icons (not the stratmap models but the actual icons you see when you either check a settlement or choose a building option) for one of the next sneak peeks please?
Would love to see that. :yes:
LusitanianWolf
08-11-2012, 13:00
Many thanks you for the updates and the eyecandy! The tribal system realy sound interesting! Will there be a chance to unsatisfied tribes to rebel? I'm realy looking foward to see mechanics that will make large empires to become less stable, specialy when made from factions that are more like tribal confederacies. More internal struggle and less stack spaming, I hope :)
Shadowwalker
08-11-2012, 14:21
I just realized that 2 of my questions above are already answered in your post over at the TWCenter (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?p=11855381#post11855381), JMRC.
Nice to see a confirmation that this system will (eventually) work in a unique way for every fitting faction.
And even better to hear that defending your settlements has more reasons now than just "Damn! I'll lose income and perhaps a strategic position."
*rubs hands in anticipation*
Gaius Sempronius Gracchus
08-12-2012, 00:51
Yep, like others, the more I see the more wowed I am, and the more I want it NOW. However, there is something to be said for having little snippets like this to help build the antici pation.
Reading through some of the previews again, I'm looking forward to seeing how the outlying authority buildings will work with the central authority buildings. I like that the central authority buildings between the Romans and the Carthaginians offer different political structures to each other and trust that other factions will likewise be very different. As someone else asked, are there any plans for the 'tribal' system to be incorporated into more 'civilised' factions?
(1) Reading the preview about the system somehow gave me the idea that it may well be possible for a defensive/peaceful player (that, for example, doesn't expand much after initial consolidation) to not have/get any chieftains. Did I misunderstood something there or will it indeed be possible to extinct your own faction just because you don't fight enough battles and therefore get no chieftains at all anymore?
The engine will not let you get "extinct". Even if the player doesn't have conditions to raise Chieftains, when the faction leader dies the engine will choose one general at random (not sure exactly what's the criteria if all generals have no Authority) to become the new faction leader. This happens because the Chieftain is a feature of the mod and not of the engine. Even with little expansion and with just 2 tribes it's possible to roleplay and have a competition between them to get a Chieftain and then getting the FL place. The generals can become Chieftains by winning difficult battles, even if they are not sieges (no expansion), since they gain points with that.
(2) Am I right to assume that the three factions you mentioned were only examples and that the system is used for Arverni, Pritanoi, Boii, Getai etc as well? And what about Massylia? The preview for them had plenty of tribes/ethnicities as well, will they get a similar system?
As you said, I've cleared this issue in another thread: all celtic, germanic and even some nomadic factions will have this system, each with its own specific variant.
(3) Is it safe to assume that the tribal buildings will affect the availability/replenishment rates for certain units as well? Not in the initial release (since there may just not be enough units) but perhaps in a later version?
Yes, but only for those which are specific to that tribe. In the 1st release we have a few tribe-specific units.
(4) I remember reading that the initial release will feature "only" a basic trait/ancillaries system, does this mean that the tribal system will be implemented in a later release only or will it work with the "basic" trait/ancillary system too?
The system gets into the 1st release and it requires extensive changes in the ethnicity traits. The "basic" is always a very abstract concept. :)
May I ask for a selected few building icons (not the stratmap models but the actual icons you see when you either check a settlement or choose a building option) for one of the next sneak peeks please? Would love to see that.
We are going to start posting screens of the campaign map, specially since we're almost finishing the non-character models.
Will there be a chance to unsatisfied tribes to rebel? I'm realy looking foward to see mechanics that will make large empires to become less stable, specialy when made from factions that are more like tribal confederacies. More internal struggle and less stack spaming, I hope :)
This is a very interesting question. Surely it can be done easily: the tribal building produces unrest when an "unsatisfaction" event is active AND the generals with that tribe's ethnicity acquire an "unsatisfaction" temporary trait which reduces their loyalty. The thing is what leads a tribe to become "unsatisfied"? Being in the lower rank of the Achievements, perhaps?
The idea is interesting, I'll think more about it. Thanks. :)
As someone else asked, are there any plans for the 'tribal' system to be incorporated into more 'civilised' factions?
The non-tribal factions have other mechanisms at their disposal: trading/settler colonies, cultural reforms, etc. There is still a lot of room for improvements, so we will get very cool features for the non-tribals.
Shadowwalker
08-12-2012, 07:23
Thank you for that detailed answer. Much appreciated. :2thumbsup:
LusitanianWolf
08-12-2012, 11:18
This is a very interesting question. Surely it can be done easily: the tribal building produces unrest when an "unsatisfaction" event is active AND the generals with that tribe's ethnicity acquire an "unsatisfaction" temporary trait which reduces their loyalty. The thing is what leads a tribe to become "unsatisfied"? Being in the lower rank of the Achievements, perhaps?
The idea is interesting, I'll think more about it. Thanks. :)
Nice =)
More reasons that could lead to tribes to rebel: Rivalry between tribes and chiftains (a new faction leader being from a hated tribe), the player ignoring that tribe and tribal leaders goals (ex: a very warlike chieftain being kept doing housekeeping instead if headchoping)), historicaly disloyal factions growing too much on power, not being politicaly represented by any general, allying with traditional enemies etc.
Gaius Sempronius Gracchus
08-12-2012, 12:04
Thanks JMRC for your very detailed response.
This is a very interesting question. Surely it can be done easily: the tribal building produces unrest when an "unsatisfaction" event is active AND the generals with that tribe's ethnicity acquire an "unsatisfaction" temporary trait which reduces their loyalty. The thing is what leads a tribe to become "unsatisfied"? Being in the lower rank of the Achievements, perhaps?
The idea is interesting, I'll think more about it. Thanks. :)
Yes, I would have thought that never entering into any position of authority, always being the junior partner, might make a tribe a little ....resentful.
Looking forward to hearing more about the various game mechanics that are being implemented.
moonburn
08-13-2012, 02:19
on a new note i had assumed warhounds where out so ... what are the sauromtae doing riding them ?
Brave Brave Sir Robin
08-13-2012, 03:52
111 man horse archer units...(shudders...)
ziegenpeter
08-16-2012, 16:29
This is a very interesting question. Surely it can be done easily: the tribal building produces unrest when an "unsatisfaction" event is active AND the generals with that tribe's ethnicity acquire an "unsatisfaction" temporary trait which reduces their loyalty. The thing is what leads a tribe to become "unsatisfied"? Being in the lower rank of the Achievements, perhaps?
The idea is interesting, I'll think more about it. Thanks. :)
The non-tribal factions have other mechanisms at their disposal: trading/settler colonies, cultural reforms, etc. There is still a lot of room for improvements, so we will get very cool features for the non-tribals.
Couldnt the same system be used to represent different families for the romans, cities for the greek, ethnicities like in EBI for the successors, etc...?
https://img18.imageshack.us/img18/3493/celtic1.png
Hello, my most awesome new wallpaper :P
The officer shouting orders is so epic!
I love the colorfulness of the Aedui :) The graphics look amazing
moonburn
08-23-2012, 10:19
is it just me or did the elite spearman that we could only get in the east finally made it all across the celtic world ?
also the romans seems humbled in terms of armour the romans seem to be using the celtiberian breastplates only the triarii seem their old self except they have a more peacockish glare to them (the celtics always where peacocks so no need to state the obvious)
LusitanianWolf
08-23-2012, 13:22
Romans fighting against Aedui:
6585
Marvelous!
Persians sure knew how to dress back then ^^
Hotseat_User
01-30-2013, 10:55
the new photos in the EB2-SneakPeak-thread. Does this mean that one can crack his head at the walls of the sanctuary. I remember it shall be the poor ol' townsquare. That's one kind of beast-defense.
Red_Devil
01-30-2013, 21:14
it won't be the town center itself. It might(or might not be that will depend on the AI's behavior when testing pathfinding) be one of the buildings near the town center, else, it'll be just another random building on the map... ;)
Brave Brave Sir Robin
01-31-2013, 00:53
Keep up the great work Red Devil!
Brave Brave Sir Robin
02-07-2013, 13:33
Absolutely beautiful work Tux! Loving the unit cards! Also love the fact that horses (well most horses, not that British pony:clown:) are represented having realistic mass and size compared to us puny humans.
athanaric
02-07-2013, 13:51
Excellent work on the unit cards. However I suggest you get rid of the prickly pears (like the one in the Maure infantry picture) and other cacti, because those are American in origin and were introduced after 1492 AD. In their place, one could use succulents of the Euphorbiaceae group, which fill the ecological niche of cacti in the Old World.
Excellent work on the unit cards. However I suggest you get rid of the prickly pears (like the one in the Maure infantry picture) and other cacti, because those are American in origin and were introduced after 1492 AD. In their place, one could use succulents of the Euphorbiaceae group, which fill the ecological niche of cacti in the Old World.
Found out afterwards, thus for the moment they will be left as be and the cacti will not be used for future african units.
Keep in mind that there are 188 units for the first release, a render of that sort takes around 1-3 hours to make.
Now multiply with the number of units and see how many man hours does it take...
athanaric
02-07-2013, 14:07
a render of that sort takes around 1-3 hours to make. They do look rather awesome.
Well, if you or the rest of the team have any questions on neobiota or generally flora and fauna, you can always ask me.
They do look rather awesome.
Well, if you or the rest of the team have any questions on neobiota or generally flora and fauna, you can always ask me.
Glad you like'em.
So I presume that means your work is related to that?
athanaric
02-07-2013, 19:10
So I presume that means your work is related to that?
Not exactly, but I used to study that and it's still a private field of interest.
https://img32.imageshack.us/img32/1139/kingdoms201302252350127.jpg
Gaesatae ahoy!
(from the Sneak Peeks thread)
For the next sneak peek we would like to give the chance to everyone to choose what to preview.
Such as a specific faction vs faction battle, region shots of the campaign map and so on.
Ailfertes
02-26-2013, 12:22
The campaign map with the new borders and the regions controlled by all factions plox :bow:
That's overstretching it.:P
Such as a specific faction vs faction battle, region shots of the campaign map and so on.
Getai versus Romani, preferably showcasing units of drapanai. :yes:
Bosphorans vs a yet undisclosed faction :clown:
Any armoured horse archer will do for me :P
Seeing more of Pahlava, Baktria or Saka would be nice too...
As for campaign pics: Bouiroi, Lugiones or Nabatu, anything where there was substantial redrawing or additions really :)
Ailfertes
02-26-2013, 15:28
That's overstretching it.:P
I could try ;-)
I would like to see a battle between Lugiones and Bosporan Kingdom, OR between Nabataea and the Saba.
OR a portion of the map in the Caucasian region, because that way we see mountains, passes, seas, lakes, rivers, etc.
moonburn
02-26-2013, 19:49
i would like to see a horde of gaesatae charging from behinde a group of german screatching women (herm i think i saw that in a movie once ... )
Brave Brave Sir Robin
02-27-2013, 01:24
Bosporan Kingdom campaign shots please :bow:
Keep it going everyone as it's still hard to find a common request.
joshmahurin
02-27-2013, 22:55
Simply the campaign map overview of all the current province borders, no need to put factions on it as our unofficial map thread people will do that on their own ;)
Battle shots are fun, but not particularly informative. I'd like to see how the Nabatean's starting area has been remapped.
looking at that hill/mountain in the background, I do have one question:
any way to dictate the geology of the region? I refer specifically to rock types, the way they erode, etc. the ones I see could use improvement.
I've heard of Muizer's guide (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?55785-Muizer-s-guide-to-battlemap-modification) to battle-maps, but that was for RTW, and I don't know how well it could help. with this.
Gotta agree, the Bosphoran Kingdom is def my most anticipated faction. Unfortunately, we have had a total of 0 screenshots, while the Gauls, Sweboz, Nabbateans, Sabeans, Sauromate, Selukids, Epirotes, Makedons, Boii, Luigones, and others have had at least SOME coverage.
machinor
03-04-2013, 12:24
I second the request for some Armoured Horse-Archers or some ballsy armoured Eastern Horsemen in general! :verycool:
Haithabas
03-04-2013, 12:45
I second the request for some Armoured Horse-Archers or some ballsy armoured Eastern Horsemen in general! :verycool:
Hmm ...:wink2:
I'd like to see more of Massylia. There hasn't been any word on them since they were announced.
ayekides
03-05-2013, 19:52
I want to see some campaign map pics. It doesn't even need to have the factions on it. I just want to see some city locations and some PSF's so I can start plotting out some expansion plans. But really, any preview is a welcome sight.
Keep up the good work and don't rush it....I've got a Bactrian campaign to finish in EBI anyway.~:)
Thank you Tux!!! :O
The Bouiroi sure expand fast lol
I know understand the hinted "White Death", the team was dealing with XD
I particularly like the winter trees ^^
The cavalry kopides look amazing aswell!
Plus scales armoured HAs: YES!!!
Ailfertes
03-06-2013, 11:03
Gorgeous. I like some cool details like the mines almost atop mountain peaks in Spain, and much more...
Damn, I'm getting my hopes up again.
ayekides
03-06-2013, 22:27
Very nice!!! Thanks for the campaign pics Tux. I'm really liking the mountains around Medilanon, very imposing. Also, is that 2 PSF's I see around Pantikapaion?
The units look top-notch as always. Can't wait to see more.
No, those are watchtowers. PSF's aren't currently integrated in that area, we're currently placing them and deciding which and where to add.
Great stuff, I have to say, apart from Rivers, fords and water in general the Map really looks much like later(than M2TW) Total war games. The elevation, the scarcely farmland texture, really looks much more realistic than many M2TW mods.
Brave Brave Sir Robin
03-07-2013, 01:03
Awesome stuff! Thanks for the first info on the Bosporans since they were revealed:2thumbsup: Small little bonus, I like the way the border has been redrawn around Ak-Ink. It was a very strange province in EB.
Thank you guys so much for the great screenshots! Really like what you're doing with the campaign map; it looks beautiful. I do find it curious that there are two settlements in Gaul (Lugdunon and Uiennos) practically next to each other, as seen in the Alps screenshot. I'd personally rather have another settlement in Iberia, but I can't pretend to be an expert.
machinor
03-07-2013, 17:12
Those Eastern cavalry units look awesome! I planned to start my very first EB2-campaign as Carthage or Boii but I'm afraid I'll have to switch to Baktria instead.
Great stuff al around, you guys!
Brave Brave Sir Robin
03-08-2013, 01:49
Thank you guys so much for the great screenshots! Really like what you're doing with the campaign map; it looks beautiful. I do find it curious that there are two settlements in Gaul (Lugdunon and Uiennos) practically next to each other, as seen in the Alps screenshot. I'd personally rather have another settlement in Iberia, but I can't pretend to be an expert.
Well note that some of the Alpine settlements are no longer located there anymore so you may still get some extra settlements in Iberia.
Ailfertes
03-08-2013, 11:19
Well to me it makes an awful lot of sense to have both Lugdunum and Viennos.
The campaign map looks great. I like how dispersed the cities are in many areas. It gives more room for land battles. Oh, and the mountain ranges look absolutely fabulous!
Gaius Sempronius Gracchus
03-29-2013, 11:21
I'm liking the previews and sneak-peaks so far. If I would request anything other than what has already been requested it would be some sort of sneak-peak at some of the gameplay mechanisms; a little more about how government and associated buildings will work, for example, of PSFs etc.
Tyrfingr
03-31-2013, 18:04
Love the campaign map, but...
1) I notice that Jerusalem has disappeared? What gives with that?
2) Is the central, mountain part of Sardinia under "Eremos"-control?
Personally, I think they've gone overboard with permanent stone forts. Looks too clustered, and I fear that field battles (i.e., fun battles) are going to be extremely rare in certain regions. Welcome to siegeworld.
2) Is the central, mountain part of Sardinia under "Eremos"-control?
Yeah, they stated a while back that certain parts of the map that historically no one really bothered to conquer would be regulated to Eremos. Central Sardinia, western Ireland, and parts of Russia were amongst those areas. Not sure what purpose it serves in terms of gameplay, but I guess it's intended to be more accurate.
Personally, I think they've gone overboard with permanent stone forts. Looks too clustered, and I fear that field battles (i.e., fun battles) are going to be extremely rare in certain regions. Welcome to siegeworld.
Not at all. All those PSFs will have non-siege battles. Imagine them as settlements that the armies will move against, but then clash in a open field.
The big advantage of this is that now you can have "real" battles. Instead of having small-size stacks roaming the campaign map, we can make the AI consolidate in these positions, so when the players attack them, he will face enormous armies in a open battlefield.
1) I notice that Jerusalem has disappeared? What gives with that?
Because during most of EB's time period, the Ptolemaioi ruled this area, and their administrative center was the old city of Acre (which they called Ptolemais-Akko). We will have Jerusalem (Hyerosolima) and other important cities in this area, as PSFs.
Gaius Sempronius Gracchus
03-31-2013, 23:38
Not at all. All those PSFs will have non-siege battles. Imagine them as settlements that the armies will move against, but then clash in a open field.
The big advantage of this is that now you can have "real" battles. Instead of having small-size stacks roaming the campaign map, we can make the AI consolidate in these positions, so when the players attack them, he will face enormous armies in a open battlefield.
That sounds like a really well worked out solution. And the PSFs also offer economic benefits, I take it?
Not at all. All those PSFs will have non-siege battles. Imagine them as settlements that the armies will move against, but then clash in a open field.
The big advantage of this is that now you can have "real" battles. Instead of having small-size stacks roaming the campaign map, we can make the AI consolidate in these positions, so when the players attack them, he will face enormous armies in a open battlefield. GENIUS!! - tho sicily still really looks VERY crowded indeed.
I also like the idea of more "eremos" around the world, for gameplay this will probably mean, more reb... eleutheroi and not being able to build Guardtowers there. Will there be more regions like Sardina with a "mini-Eremos" that are not shown on the Map(you uploaded)?
Not at all. All those PSFs will have non-siege battles. Imagine them as settlements that the armies will move against, but then clash in a open field.
Fascinating! I'm very much relieved to know this, thank you. :2thumbsup:
And the PSFs also offer economic benefits, I take it?
Indirectly, perhaps. The engine doesn't recognize them as separated from the region's settlement economy, so if by chance we had a region with the settlement in faction X and a PSF in faction Y, any economical benefits would be directed to faction X and not Y. So, we'll need to consider another solution.
so no invisible immovable merchants in PSFs?
From what I can remember of the British Isles campaign in the Kingdoms expansion pack, PSFs gave free upkeep to a limited number of units stationed there. Is that particular form of indirect economic benefit going to apply to EB2?
M to the A
04-02-2013, 20:56
http://oi47.tinypic.com/34j3wbd.jpg
So would these be the starting positions? Anything should be different?
Almost. Pritanoi start in Arduon now, you need to move the Lusotanann into the province to the north of the one you have them in, and Aedui and Arverni are restricted to one province each.
EDIT: Also, the Bosporans only start with one half of the Crimea.
IIRC Sweboz only hold the upper province, Averni and Aedui territories do not touch, Pritanoi start in arduon, Boii do not have a province in northern italy also, you sure about Nabateans starting there? I thought they started in Edom. other than that good work!
Almost there.
It wouldn't be fun if we tell all the starting positions accurately. It would spoil the pleasure of discovery.
Almost there.
It wouldn't be fun if we tell all the starting positions accurately. It would spoil the pleasure of discovery.
Err, oops :p
Brave Brave Sir Robin
04-02-2013, 22:41
From screenies we've seen it looks like the Ptolemioi also start with Halicarnassus and Ephesus unless of course the team showed those screens from a few years in. Also, wonder if Baktria shouldn't get the province directly north, Oxiana I believe it is?
EDIT: Also, did the team consider making Gedrosia part of Eremos and adding another province elsewhere? It always seemed to me to be a very sparsely populated and more or less worthless area. That being said, I've never really read much about Gedrosia outside of Alexander's conquests and passing mentions in Seleucid and Persian histories.
So would these be the starting positions? Anything should be different?
Nabatu start in Edom, and I believe all the other responses are accurate too, based on screenshots. Also, I think the Arverni start in Aruernselua, while the Aedui start in Talaeduio. I personally suspect the Boii will only start with Boiotergion, but I could very well be wrong.
Also don't think Epirus starts with Dalmatia, at least not in EB1.
Did we not have a community map progression thread? posting it there might be a good idea so people who are looking for it will have less of a hard time finding it :)
QuintusSertorius
04-03-2013, 23:22
Almost there.
It wouldn't be fun if we tell all the starting positions accurately. It would spoil the pleasure of discovery.
What pleasure of discovery? I think that ship sailed a long time ago. I'm as supportive of this project as anyone here, but any sense of anticipation has long since ebbed away to nothing. Releasing snippets and breadcrumbs doesn't keep people keen, not after this length of time, it's more like an insulting attempt to string people along just a little bit longer.
It's not just here, either, I've seen other sorts of projects in other arenas take this same sort of approach and I really don't understand it. We can see the results of that with the way the main fora have pretty much died, compared to a few years ago. There's been a massive die-off in terms of interest, I'm sure a lot of people have forgotten about EB2 altogether, or dismissed it as vaporware.
Brave Brave Sir Robin
04-04-2013, 03:31
What pleasure of discovery? I think that ship sailed a long time ago. I'm as supportive of this project as anyone here, but any sense of anticipation has long since ebbed away to nothing. Releasing snippets and breadcrumbs doesn't keep people keen, not after this length of time, it's more like an insulting attempt to string people along just a little bit longer.
It's not just here, either, I've seen other sorts of projects in other arenas take this same sort of approach and I really don't understand it. We can see the results of that with the way the main fora have pretty much died, compared to a few years ago. There's been a massive die-off in terms of interest, I'm sure a lot of people have forgotten about EB2 altogether, or dismissed it as vaporware.
I don't think this is fair to the team Quintus. There have clearly been some delays and setbacks (ie change in project lead), of that I am sure. But in reality, its a little harsh to non-constructively criticize a group of people who are devoting part of their leisure time to create something which other people may play for free.
I personally would rather have snippets here and there to see that progress has indeed been made on the project, although if the presentation of this info comes at the price of slowing progress on the project itself, I would prefer that more time be spent on development instead.
As far as activity on the fora goes, RTW is how old? Almost 10 years I believe. And EB was never a "mass appeal" mod to begin with. To expect many people to still be playing the mod after 3 new Total War games have been released is a little optimistic. I still play, but to be honest, it was the MP aspect that pulled me back after a hiatus. It is tough to attract new players to an old game.
QuintusSertorius
04-04-2013, 11:05
I don't think this is fair to the team Quintus. There have clearly been some delays and setbacks (ie change in project lead), of that I am sure. But in reality, its a little harsh to non-constructively criticize a group of people who are devoting part of their leisure time to create something which other people may play for free.
I personally would rather have snippets here and there to see that progress has indeed been made on the project, although if the presentation of this info comes at the price of slowing progress on the project itself, I would prefer that more time be spent on development instead.
As far as activity on the fora goes, RTW is how old? Almost 10 years I believe. And EB was never a "mass appeal" mod to begin with. To expect many people to still be playing the mod after 3 new Total War games have been released is a little optimistic. I still play, but to be honest, it was the MP aspect that pulled me back after a hiatus. It is tough to attract new players to an old game.
I'm criticising the approach to communication; secrecy mixed with coy in-jokes and occasional misinformation. You don't need formal previews to be straight with people and give realistic expectations as to what's going on. All we need is a paragraph or two every now and then saying what's going on, and roughly what the activities left to complete are. Maybe even a tracker, "we're 60% of the way to completion" or something like that.
Delays and setbacks happen, that's life. What there is a serious failure of here is expectation management - because essentially there isn't any. It's just the same old "it'll be ready when it's done" and occasionally throwing out a preview.
EDIT: And so this isn't just some negativity, if the team want someone to do the forum-liason bit, telling people what's going on behind the scenes and responding to all the usual questions, I'd be willing to do that. I spend more than enough time on various fora just chatting about stuff to be able to devote some to doing something more focused here.
Quintus Sertorius, would a tracker of the sort you describe serve any real use? What is 60% of a project that can be expected to change in scope? New opportunities/challenges change the definition of what a 100% ready first release would be. A year ago you could expect medieval buildings in place for the foreseable future, now people are (happily) arguing about high status gallic buildings.
You might know what you expect to comprise a first release and plan your project around that, but big changes can and have taken place that make any statement other than "when it is done" a dishonest one.
There is a twitter feed that does post short notes on what is happening in the team. The last post was 2 days ago and the one before was only 2 weeks before that.
Formal previews can attract help in areas the team need to finish the job, as well as court would be players. That alone is worth supporting their use.
M to the A
04-04-2013, 18:52
Alrighty then, is this better?
http://oi49.tinypic.com/34gx4s5.jpg
ugh
Looks good except for one thing: I think you had Gandhara right the first time, with only two northern provinces. Though, if I understand the set-up correctly, they'll be representing a satrapy of the larger Indian empire, so the whole region may be under one faction, with some sort of split/rebellion occurring later in the campaign ... But the screenshots indicate what your first map showed.
also it is not "proven" that Baktria has the northern region aswell and Boii have only one region. But I think it's ok.
M to the A
04-04-2013, 19:54
Oh well, I just want to get somewhat of a picture what the campaign map will look like, don't think the Volcae were part of the Boii anyways. What are these Saami living in Oxeiane though?
Tyrfingr
04-04-2013, 20:12
Not at all. All those PSFs will have non-siege battles. Imagine them as settlements that the armies will move against, but then clash in a open field.
The big advantage of this is that now you can have "real" battles. Instead of having small-size stacks roaming the campaign map, we can make the AI consolidate in these positions, so when the players attack them, he will face enormous armies in a open battlefield.
Interesting, but if the AI will consolidate to the PSFs, won't that make the AI very defensive or will they just gather their armies at the PSF and then roll on?
As Brave Brave Sir Robin kindly pointed out, EBII is a labour of love. All of us are volunteers. Some of us are fortunate enough to be employed in professions which are directly related to their work on EBII, the rest of us make do with the jobs we have (I write this whilst wearing my supermarket uniform, my shift finished 30 min ago). Also, as we are a volunteer group we cannot hold team members accountable when they leave or go AWOL. This has been a major problem this year, indeed when the Arevaci preview was prepared it was a distress preview if you can call it that; we had lost so many older members that it didn't seem likely that EBII would be able to continue. However since then we have managed to attract some extremely dedicated members (I cannot thank V.T. Marvin and Saldunz enough for their tireless programming efforts, and the same goes for long time programmer Tellos Athenaios) also many of our historians took on more work than they were initially asked to do (for example I began as an advisor on Celtic religion, now I am responsible for the Boii, Pritanoi, Aedui, Arverni, Arevaci and if I can get some good literature the Lusotannan will hopefully be added to this list as well).
As Maeran pointed out our plans also change. This time last year we never expected we would be able to have barbarian buildings, we may also be able to have other cultures buildings if we manage to work out some personnel and collaboration problems. Likewise we are hoping to secure new music for EBII. Some aspects of our plan, such as coding for traits and ethnicities or creating new units, will always remain the same. But the team is always on the lookout for new things which we can add for the fans.
However, QuintusSertorius does have some valid points regarding our fan relations. The old approach of releasing a large preview every 6 months, although it generated a lot of excitement, was not the best approach. Hence we have the Twitter account (which we attempt to update at least once a fortnight, if not more frequently, and the Developer Blog). Would you guys be interested in a "An interview with...." sort of series or perhaps a bi-monthly mini-preview of a new feature of EBII? For example the new religion system?
I will also have a word with the team and see if we can't release a statement saying how far along we are with the mod so you can get an idea of how things are going.
I should also add, even if you guys are not members of the team you can still help us to help you; if you know programmers, coders, artists (both 2D and 3D) or specialist historians (Lusotannan, Numidians and Arab factions are currently short on historians) please tell them about our mod and see if they would be interested in helping us.
Finally I would like to say, on behalf of everyone in the team, past and present (and very hopefully future too) Thank you for sticking with us for so long! We couldn't ask for a more loyal fanbase.
Thank you Brennus for your post I must say I'm touched after reading it, that there are people like you and other members of EB team who have so much love and passion for something and are willing to share it with others. Thank you EB team! I wish you that you all will always have this passion in your lives with you! I cannot speak for whole community but I can wait for this mod another 5 years (Im lurker for more than 5 years now and check the page everyday).
QuintusSertorius
04-04-2013, 21:50
It's funny, immediately after I posted that, I had another look at the Dev Blog thread itself (ie the one this thread is for discussion of) and the first post had a very good summary of where things were up to 18 months or so ago. It's notable that nothing has been posted there for months, possibly because of the effort required to put a preview together that's consistent with the ones already in there. Now I'm not asking for a weekly update on that whole list in the first post, but maybe a monthly summary of the change highlights. Not more than a paragraph or two, or a few bulleted lists saying "here's the major things we accomplished this month".
I appreciate there's the Twitter feed, but not only is it possible people aren't following it (I don't have a Twitter account, personally), but it isn't really collected/compiled/constructed into something meaningful. If anything the disconnect is that you've got another source of information that, barring the occasional post in the Twitter thread, isn't making its way back here. Again, I'm personally less interested in previews (I got the one I was most keen on - Pergamon - right at the start), especially if the creation of them takes people out of working on the mod, but summaries of what's been going on help build confidence that the momentum is being maintained. That's not to say mini-previews won't interest other people, especially if they're frequent enough to start generating that buzz we used to have around here.
Just to clarify, I'm not suggesting the team rush this or anything like that. I've waited this long and can continue waiting (I'm a father now, which I wasn't back in 2007/8 when I was first playing EB1, I barely notice the days going by any more!) because I know the finished product will have been worth it. I'm relieved that the team have managed to get it back on track and are so dedicated to that vision. Hell, some of the delays have been through adding even more richness to the experience, who can complain about that?
Tellos Athenaios
04-04-2013, 23:10
Well since I am mentioned I thought I'd clarify:
We have basically two kinds of "programmers". Those who do useful work on the mod itself. And me.
Me, I sort of run the tools department. The tools are about replacing the game itself for creating various binary blobs that the mod needs, wherever possible. Well that's not quite true. What the tools really are about is two things:
Make sure that the mod actually will work out of the box when it is installed.
Pruning and refining the mod so we apply as much of the tools (and resulting binary blobs) during development as well. This causes the team both joy and grief: joy when it works (far better than the game engine and bugs get caught), grief when bugs in the tools mess up the workflow. This is also about eliminating old cruft from the mod which we no longer use (or should use).
If that all pans out according to plan, the idea is that you can install the mod and get something quite close to installing an official expansion package instead of a copy of a development tree snapshot. Which should hopefully mean that the mod works out of the box, and installation is reasonably fool proof.
Now there are currently two big obstacles in this path (quite possibly more but right now these two are so big they kind of obscure any other ones that exist as well). One is in the form of a bunch of bytes from a largely reverse-engineered CAS (animation) file format as part of the animation packs used by M2TW. The other is the format of the skeletons in the skeleton packs, which is largely (if not almost entirely) unknown stuff.
So what am I working on when I have the time? On improvements to the existing tools to speed up building of the binary blobs (and also to make building an installer easier).
burn_again
04-12-2013, 02:23
I just dug out some of my EB1 saves from a few years ago and played a bit and immediately got back into that EB feeling. It will always be one of my absolute favourites, I had so many great hours playing this game. Thanks for that. :bow:
I check this forum every few months for news about EB2 and I have to say it is really amazing that you guys have managed to keep this going. I haven't posted anything in recent years, but I'm really looking forward to play EB2 whenever it's ready. It must be really difficult to manage a project of volunteers, who have real lives and real jobs, over such a long time, I admire your dedication. So don't get upset when people complain about waiting or lack of updates, every progress is quite an achievement and when there is a release some day, I'm gonna feel the same childlike excitement I felt when EB 1.0 was released: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?93131-IT-IS-THERE!&highlight=
I'm a bit more patient nowadays and check only every few months instead of seconds, but I still do appreciate your work very much, EB team!
More frequent but smaller updates is the way to go IMO. That way, the community knows that progress is being made and can comment on the presented features. Personally, I'm most interested in the new gameplay elements. New units are great, but pretty much every mod has them. EB1 had some great new stuff that made the game challenging and flavourful and I hope to see sth similar in EB2. RTW Vanilla was very bland by comparison.
The good thing about smaller updates is that they are not as time-consuming as standard EB previews. Besides, I think that the team members would like to read what other users think about the stuff that has been made so far.
Skullheadhq
04-15-2013, 19:00
Make sure that the mod actually will work out of the box when it is installed.
Aha, so there will be a boxed version.
LusitanianWolf
08-09-2013, 18:32
Just to say I've been really enjoying the interviews! :2thumbsup:
Indeed. Very informative and entertaining. Who is next?
LusitanianWolf
12-20-2013, 01:57
Salveas!
As you all may have noticed we have stopped previewing our factions, that is because we are close to a release and also because we have covered most of them.
And for that reason we have decided to change other areas of the game which weren't previously planned for the first release, like the climates.
The climates suffered various changes, like new terrain textures, grass textures(with vegetation specific to the climate), geography changes(vegetation density, mountains and hills distribution, etc.) and in some cases even new vegetation.
First I will show a comparison with some of the vanilla climates and later I will continue covering(via eye-candy) the climates that you'll see in EB2.
So brace yourselves, image heavy
INCREDIBELICIOUSTASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:jawdrop:
BroskiDerpman
12-20-2013, 01:58
New textures and models!!!
How!?!?!?
Why you no tell us????? :2thumbsup:
New textures and models!!!
How!?!?!?
Why you no tell us????? :2thumbsup:
Christmas surprise! :P
moonburn
12-20-2013, 19:05
pretty cool but we still need the preview with the boii and the arevaci most elitist and aristocratic units i believe and ofc the 3rd roman preview (i like to see what i will be killing in droves thanks )
pretty cool but we still need the preview with the boii and the arevaci most elitist and aristocratic units i believe and ofc the 3rd roman preview (i like to see what i will be killing in droves thanks )
All the Boii and Arevaci units have been previewed. If we produce more previews we will have to push back the first release date again.
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