View Full Version : What can YOU do to help defeat communism?
truth1337
08-02-2012, 20:11
Many people believe in all sorts of crazy conspiracy theories, e.g. FEMA camps and that they will be fetched by black helicopters if they don't agree to the mainstream media lies, or if they protest against them. This is of course lunacy - communism is much weaker that it may seem in America, and not only that - there are thousands of ways in which we can all, in our everyday life, help defeating communism and its offshoots multi-culturalism, feminism, HBQT pride, abortions and satanism. Not all of us are brave enough to be heroes, but there is much we can do even without taking any risks, and that gives us all hope.
This thread is for discussing such techniques, by which we can all do those little things here and there that will help defeating communism, and make sure it never puts its hideos claws into our beloved nations.
1. Waking up
Just knowing about the horrors of communism, and how it operates, is the first step. With knowledge, you can avoid acting in ways, that (even though you didn't intend to), ends up helping communism. E.g. if you join the multi-culti praising, your helping communism. If you know the role of multi-culti in communism, you would instead praise diversity but not within nation borders. In short - knowing the truth is to win half the battle, as most of communism is based on people unknowingly helping them, under the belief that they're acting good! E.g. multi-culti is presented as "diversity", when in truth diversity comes from isolated development. Who would like to see the Galapagos islands filled with immigrants in the form of pigs and wolves in the name of "diversity"!
Knowing the main principles of how the communist virus is spread:
1. control over massmedia
2. cultural marxism and cultural infiltration, aka "the long march", as devised by the Frankfurt School. Examples: showing broken families in every movie that is produce, or showing cheating as if it is "something everybody does", or promoting superficial sexual relationships with people one would never be ready to have children with, or make the coolest guys/girls who get the sexiest girls/guys in movie use drugs, in order to make drugs look cool. Or, constantly showing the theme of black men getting white women (but of course never the opposite), to give white men a sense of "you can't protect your women".
3. controlling the opposition. Lenin's principle: "We shall control the opposition by leading it ourselves". Every opposition towards communism must therefore be scrutinized! An example is when you decide to boycott a newspaper that lies a lot, and end up choosing another that revealed much of the communist lies of the newspaper you just left. But once you have been attracted and have become their loyal reader, they suddenly gradually turn into the same newspaper you left. An example of this is RT (RussiaToday).
4. strawmans - all dangerous opposition ideas are presented in massmedia in ridiculous strawman versions, so you will laugh at the opposition thinking it is crazy. Example: the 9/11 truth. How many actually bother to read up on 9/11 from the actual truthers themselves? If you only get your information about other people's opinions through the filtering of their enemies, you will certainly think all opponents of your own newspaper are mad.
5. problem-reaction-solution, or the Hegel dialectic. This method was Hegel's shrewd way of avoiding the difficulties of forcing upon a population a policy they didn't like. The first step is to create a problem that makes people angry and demand a solution. When people react, you give them the solution, which is what you originally wanted. E.g. you create mass immigration of muslims to European countries, which causes economical losses and increased rape rates. People react and get angry. Rather than giving them the solution of repatriation and ended immigration, you give them the "solution" in the form of anti-muslim racist propaganda and wars against muslim countries (even though that's not what the people wanted - they merely wanted an end to immigration). Because people were crying for almost the thing you provided as solution, the effort of enforcing is much smaller, than if you had initially demanded wars against muslim countries.
6. divide and conquer - diving man against woman (feminism), race against race (multi-culturalism and immigration), and so on, to make people easier to control.
2. Spreading the truth
If you're slightly braver, you can spread the truth to others, so they also wake up! There's a simple principle worth remembering here. If you awaken 1 person, and he awakens 1 person, a chain of 6 billion steps is needed to awaken the world - that is no good. But note that if you awaken two, there will be an exponential growth - 1 awakened man will become 2, which will become 4, 8, 16, and so on. This chain only has 33 steps, until the entire world is awake! And the more you are prepared to awaken, among your friends, family or even strangers (but be aware of undercover communists!), the shorter the chain becomes and the faster the whole world will awaken against the communist menace!
3. Boycotting communist media
This helps you avoid being brainwashed and demoralized. The brainwashing can make you fall asleep again, and the demoralization can make you feel it is hopeless to fight. It isn't - the majority of people hate communism! As communist media loses watchers and subscribers, they lose the ability to have their lie "the majority agrees with us" believed, which they use even when it isn't true.
4. Vote bravely
Honestly, when communism controls all your major parties and they're run by the same advisors no matter who wins, it is worth the risk of "throwing away" the vote to try voting for a smaller party. After all what does it matter whether the worst or least bad of incredibly bad parties rule? This way we can kick out the commie infiltrators that are turning once good political parties into communist-liberal-feminist parties.
5. Standing up for your beliefs
This point probably mainly applies to Europe where freedom of speech hardly exists anymore, but America too in some places. The taboo on criticizing immigration is lifting in Europe now, for example, and it is only thanks to people raising their voice against political correctness. Therefore promote more jokes that break taboo, as well as honest opinions going against those of communist mainstream media. You may not dare to be the one sticking out the most, but here's a simple principle - stick out just A LITTLE more than the average guy. If all think that way, we will advance in unison against the communist menace. It is never dangerous to be slightly braver than average - if anyone is killed it will be the hero that runs miles ahead of others. Running ahead like a hero is not something you're required to do, but if you truly love your family and friends, and your children, stand up and be brave enough to be slightly braver than the average guy!
6. Taking part in politics
For the even braver, it is possible to take part in politics personally. Honestly speaking, it is not as dangerous as conspiracy nutters believe. Yes JFK was shot, but communists and others who hate mankind don't have a capacity to kill many more than one per decade anyway, without provoking an instant uprising. They know they live in a card house, and that they can't manouver that much in any direction without making it fall apart. The power lies in the hands of the masses, who don't want communism!
What other good tricks for defeating communism do you know about? Please share your ideas, so that we can all help spreading them to all other people who want to live in freedom and peace, rather than as human cattle in a communist Gulag farm!
Pro-tip:
7. Nothing
Communism defeated itself 20 years ago, so you really don't need to worry about it anymore.
truth1337
08-02-2012, 20:23
Pro-tip:
7. Nothing
Communism defeated itself 20 years ago, so you really don't need to worry about it anymore.
Not in Europe. It merely changed name to "liberalism", "multi-culturalism" and "feminism", and hate towards Jesus, among others. It is still the old principles of "the long march" that are being enacted. Additionally, the Kaufman/Ignatiev plan for extinction of white people, is present everywhere. The first attempt to extinct white people was made by the Gulags, where 60 million white Christians were murdered by Jew Lazar Kaganovich and Jew Lavrenti Beria. After seeing that it was still not possible to extinct the whole population, Kaufman wrote "Germany must perish" in 1941, detailing a plan for genocide by sterilization, arguing that it would be "easier to have accepted", than a genocide by violence. Note that this writing was made, before the alleged "Ze Final Solution" meeting. Even if that were not the case, it doesn't explain away the later, refined plan suggested in Noel Ignatiev's "Abolish the white race", where he suggests massive immigration and enforced race mixed marriage for white nations, and only white nations. This, my friend, is why communism must still be feared. Coming from a nation where the multi-culti madness is perhaps worse than anywhere in Europe, I know what I'm talking about. We of course don't want to hurt any Jews even though all the advocates of white genocide by coincidence happened to be Jewish, we merely want to ensure such people never hold positions of power. What is scary though, is that Ignatiev's article was accepted by Harvard magazine for publishing, in 2002.
Communism defeated itself 20 years ago, so you really don't need to worry about it anymore.
But apparently it had kids!
communism and its offshoots multi-culturalism, feminism, HBQT pride, abortions and satanism.
I, for one, welcome our new hippy overlords.
truth1337
08-02-2012, 20:40
Gulag
Replace "communism" with "corporate facism", then we will talk. Communism died years ago, there's no money in it.
not to sound conspiratory....but truth1337 sounds just like an agent provocateur :creep:
Hooahguy
08-02-2012, 22:00
Now I get it. Hes secretly an agent for the New World Order! Hes just trying to make us complacent!
Or, hes a troll.
Ironside
08-02-2012, 23:03
Many people believe in all sorts of crazy conspiracy theories, e.g. FEMA camps and that they will be fetched by black helicopters if they don't agree to the mainstream media lies, or if they protest against them. This is of course lunacy - communism is much weaker that it may seem in America, and not only that - there are thousands of ways in which we can all, in our everyday life, help defeating communism and its offshoots multi-culturalism, feminism, HBQT pride, abortions and satanism. Not all of us are brave enough to be heroes, but there is much we can do even without taking any risks, and that gives us all hope.
Actually, liberalism is the core and communism is an off shoot. And what's the core idea of liberalism? That every man is equal, before God or whatever. I can see how this contradicts Jesus' message of a tiered system ,where the leading groups are based on bloodlines.
Knowing the main principles of how the communist virus is spread:
1. control over massmedia
Actually it's spread through social disorder due to large groups of negleted unemployed people with too much time on their hands and too much frustration, but we can call that media if you like.
2. cultural marxism and cultural infiltration, aka "the long march", as devised by the Frankfurt School. Examples: showing broken families in every movie that is produce, or showing cheating as if it is "something everybody does", or promoting superficial sexual relationships with people one would never be ready to have children with, or make the coolest guys/girls who get the sexiest girls/guys in movie use drugs, in order to make drugs look cool. Or, constantly showing the theme of black men getting white women (but of course never the opposite), to give white men a sense of "you can't protect your women".
tvtropes.org/SortingAlgorithmOfMortality (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SortingAlgorithmOfMortality). I can see how successful that infiltration is. The virtous virgin girl survives. The last one doesn't even make internal sense, "can't protect your woman" is usually racist propaganda, used to incite aggression against mixed couples, blacks, immigrants etc.
3. controlling the opposition. Lenin's principle: "We shall control the opposition by leading it ourselves". Every opposition towards communism must therefore be scrutinized! An example is when you decide to boycott a newspaper that lies a lot, and end up choosing another that revealed much of the communist lies of the newspaper you just left. But once you have been attracted and have become their loyal reader, they suddenly gradually turn into the same newspaper you left. An example of this is RT (RussiaToday).
Nice to have Russia there. You know a pseudo-dictorship? One of those places where you could easily predict the who the president would be 10 years ago. It's also not a communist method, but a dictorship one.
4. strawmans - all dangerous opposition ideas are presented in massmedia in ridiculous strawman versions, so you will laugh at the opposition thinking it is crazy. Example: the 9/11 truth. How many actually bother to read up on 9/11 from the actual truthers themselves? If you only get your information about other people's opinions through the filtering of their enemies, you will certainly think all opponents of your own newspaper are mad.
Been doing that mostly with creationists. You can demolish most arguments with basic science, some you'll need to read up on for a few minutes and a few do have a point, but are going way, way above that point. The long march is an idea used by a German terrorist (who failed using the idea), that's true, but it doesn't prove anything about communists controlling the media. You're doing it a lot with this quoted text, which are a prime example of conspiracy theories. The good sources don't exist, so use obscure ones that prove your point if they were fully applied.
5. problem-reaction-solution, or the Hegel dialectic. This method was Hegel's shrewd way of avoiding the difficulties of forcing upon a population a policy they didn't like. The first step is to create a problem that makes people angry and demand a solution. When people react, you give them the solution, which is what you originally wanted. E.g. you create mass immigration of muslims to European countries, which causes economical losses and increased rape rates. People react and get angry. Rather than giving them the solution of repatriation and ended immigration, you give them the "solution" in the form of anti-muslim racist propaganda and wars against muslim countries (even though that's not what the people wanted - they merely wanted an end to immigration). Because people were crying for almost the thing you provided as solution, the effort of enforcing is much smaller, than if you had initially demanded wars against muslim countries.
Notable coherence. European countries haven't really gone to war with muslim nations have they? That's been the US mostly. Also falls under that idea of "wiping out white people" as a driving idea behind the immigration.
6. divide and conquer - diving man against woman (feminism), race against race (multi-culturalism and immigration), and so on, to make people easier to control.
Before feminism, there were no problems between the genders, because they were equal. And races lived in peace and harmony with eachother, because they lived in separate countries without any sort of immigration. And all natural resources were equally devided and people weren't greedy.
4. Vote bravely
Honestly, when communism controls all your major parties and they're run by the same advisors no matter who wins, it is worth the risk of "throwing away" the vote to try voting for a smaller party. After all what does it matter whether the worst or least bad of incredibly bad parties rule? This way we can kick out the commie infiltrators that are turning once good political parties into communist-liberal-feminist parties.
6. Taking part in politics
For the even braver, it is possible to take part in politics personally. Honestly speaking, it is not as dangerous as conspiracy nutters believe. Yes JFK was shot, but communists and others who hate mankind don't have a capacity to kill many more than one per decade anyway, without provoking an instant uprising. They know they live in a card house, and that they can't manouver that much in any direction without making it fall apart. The power lies in the hands of the masses, who don't want communism!
Funny stuff. They control the goverment. They control the media. Yet they have extremely limited power... What was the true political reason of the assassination of his brother Robert Kennedy btw?
Not in Europe. It merely changed name to "liberalism", "multi-culturalism" and "feminism", and hate towards Jesus, among others. It is still the old principles of "the long march" that are being enacted. Additionally, the Kaufman/Ignatiev plan for extinction of white people, is present everywhere.
"The long march" is from the sixties btw, not that old. Kaufman/Ignatiev are soo influential and Ignatiev would pass for a white.
The first attempt to extinct white people was made by the Gulags, where 60 million white Christians were murdered by Jew Lazar Kaganovich and Jew Lavrenti Beria. After seeing that it was still not possible to extinct the whole population, Kaufman wrote "Germany must perish" in 1941, detailing a plan for genocide by sterilization, arguing that it would be "easier to have accepted", than a genocide by violence. Note that this writing was made, before the alleged "Ze Final Solution" meeting.
Eh, you might need to read up on the numbers dead in Gulags. It's about 2 millions. And most people ending up in a Gulag survived, so they were quite ineffective death camps. Quite a few Jews ended up there as well. Kaufman was American (father was German) and pretty much a nutter without any support even before he wrote that book.
Even if that were not the case, it doesn't explain away the later, refined plan suggested in Noel Ignatiev's "Abolish the white race", where he suggests massive immigration and enforced race mixed marriage for white nations, and only white nations. This, my friend, is why communism must still be feared. Coming from a nation where the multi-culti madness is perhaps worse than anywhere in Europe, I know what I'm talking about. We of course don't want to hurt any Jews even though all the advocates of white genocide by coincidence happened to be Jewish, we merely want to ensure such people never hold positions of power. What is scary though, is that Ignatiev's article was accepted by Harvard magazine for publishing, in 2002.
While Ignatiev is certainly controversial, there's no book called "Abolish the white race". He has written a book called "How the Irish Became White" where there's a lot of talk about the white race as a social counstruct, not race. I haven't red his magazine Race Traitor, so I don't know what he said there. The article in Harvard magazine (http://harvardmag.com/pdf/2002/09-pdfs/0902-30.pdf) is talking about a book that is a collection of articles from Race Traitor and is focuesed on the destruction of the white race as a social construct.
Papewaio
08-02-2012, 23:33
What are these races? Is a black, brown and white horse a different race?
Do I switch races when I freckle?
More communism is the answer, communism comes from community and I think we can all agree on how important community is!
In communism all people are equal and that's a good thing. I once gave my friend half of my chocolate bar and it felt good!
The Capital only serves to divide us, causes jealousy and murder, we need to abolish the reign of the Capital and return to our spirit of community and welcome our brothers from differently coloured mothers!
Sarmatian
08-03-2012, 08:54
Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?
CountArach
08-03-2012, 16:19
The first attempt to extinct white people was made by the Gulags, where 60 million white Christians were murdered by Jew Lazar Kaganovich and Jew Lavrenti Beria.
That's just... wow...
You do know that they were white yeah?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfPx-f5Mpo4
truth1337
08-03-2012, 17:39
While Ignatiev is certainly controversial, there's no book called "Abolish the white race".
Ok two things:
1. I never claimed that the article was a book
2. is your main argument here that, because I claimed it was a book as opposed to an article (strawman warning: I never stated it was a book), I'm wrong about everything?
As for your "social construct" theory, the whole thing about saying "the white race doesn't exist" reminds greatly of when Golda Meir said "the Palestinians don't exist". We all know what happened after that. First of all - the white race exists and it is a biological fact, not a social construct. I'm not going to advocate hate towards Jews in my next statement, but just imagine replacing the word "white" with "Jew" in Ignatiev's article. Ignatiev is a racist extremist and if racism is bad - which it is - then Ignatiev should be thrown in prison and had the key thrown away.
Strike For The South
08-03-2012, 17:42
who is white?
who is white?
I am. Definitely me.
I know because I don't like rap music and people tell me I can't dance, but if not for that I would have had no idea.
truth1337
08-03-2012, 17:49
who is white?
Those who belong to the group that is 39 times more likely to be victims of interracial violence from blacks, than they are at making blacks victims of interracial violence. They don't have any choice, they're simply born into that group.
truth1337
08-03-2012, 17:51
I am. Definitely me.
I know because I don't like rap music and people tell me I can't dance, but if not for that I would have had no idea.
White people dancing. Oh, the horror!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myJj0mNNe1Y
Strike For The South
08-03-2012, 18:00
Those who belong to the group that is 39 times more likely to be victims of interracial violence from blacks, than they are at making blacks victims of interracial violence. They don't have any choice, they're simply born into that group.
But I don't like Slavs or Southern Europeans
Granted I would expect nothing less from someone who has Jewish blood coursing through his veins.
You are an infiltraitor of the highest order.
truth1337
08-03-2012, 18:04
But I don't like Slavs or Southern Europeans
Granted I would expect nothing less from someone who has Jewish blood coursing through his veins.
You are an infiltraitor of the highest order.
Damn, you really got me there
But I don't like Slavs or Southern Europeans
How do you feel about my half-Slav half-Irish with some German blood mixed in there ethnicity? Mixing the "races" (not actually that different, has more to do with nurture imo) is definitely beneficial for our survival as a species. It also tends to make some hilarious/interesting names for mixed-race children: i.e. Blasian for black/Asian. The name just tickles me pink
rory_20_uk
08-03-2012, 18:07
I prefer "wigger"
~:smoking:
Strike For The South
08-03-2012, 18:08
Damn, you really got me there
I will not save my race with a product of some bastardized copulation act which no doubt involved an alcohol soaked materess and coercion.
How do you feel about my half-Slav half-Irish with some German blood mixed in there ethnicity? Mixing the "races" (not actually that different, has more to do with nurture imo) is definitely beneficial for our survival as a species. It also tends to make some hilarious/interesting names for mixed-race children: i.e. Blasian for black/Asian. The name just tickles me pink
Half slav and Half Irish?
Is it possible to be that stupid and lazy?
Hooahguy
08-03-2012, 18:09
Truth1337, what country are you from?
Truth1337, what country are you from?
I'd say Sweden, mainly due to his choice of church posted in the other thread.
truth1337
08-03-2012, 18:22
Truth1337, what country are you from?
From the country of your Messiah
From the country of your Messiah
JUSTIN BIEBER IS SWEDISH?!?!?!?!?!
JUSTIN BIEBER IS SWEDISH?!?!?!?!?!
I literally burst into tears laughing, my neighbors had to check on me because of the sounds I was making. That, sir, was hilarious.
I thank you. :bow:
Hooahguy
08-03-2012, 18:28
My Messiah...
Well, Im Jewish, but my religious beliefs are Agnostic. Israeli? No way, you hate Jews too much. Im going to guess Swedish, but I still wonder why you wouldnt just come outright and say it? You didnt put down a nationality in the political beliefs thread, so Im wondering what you are hiding.
truth1337
08-03-2012, 18:54
I literally burst into tears laughing, my neighbors had to check on me because of the sounds I was making. That, sir, was hilarious.
I thank you. :bow:
I'm glad you survived, earth would have been a gray, empty place without you.
Sarmatian
08-03-2012, 18:57
Half slav and Half Irish?
Is it possible to be that stupid and lazy?
Okay, you're out of order here. Irish are not lazy!
truth1337
08-03-2012, 19:06
Okay, you're out of order here. Irish are not lazy!
It is often said, God invented alcohol to prevent the Irish from taking over the world!
Strike For The South
08-03-2012, 19:10
it's whiskey, not alcohol.
Just as a note, the topic is about "defeating communism". Whilst I am all for worshipping our octosquid overlords in opposition to this notion, this is still no grounds to boil down to racist remarks in this thread or others. Any such comments will be met with little messages from myself.
Ironside
08-03-2012, 20:46
who is white?
Spanish people. Except when they live in Mexico.
Ok two things:
1. I never claimed that the article was a book
2. is your main argument here that, because I claimed it was a book as opposed to an article (strawman warning: I never stated it was a book), I'm wrong about everything?
I've linked to the entire article in Harvard Magazine. It's a one page book review. It mentions nothing about "where he suggests massive immigration and enforced race mixed marriage for white nations, and only white nations.".So yes, your statement is incorrect. Does the book contain some statements that can be dubiously interpretated to what you said? No idea.
As for your "social construct" theory, the whole thing about saying "the white race doesn't exist" reminds greatly of when Golda Meir said "the Palestinians don't exist". We all know what happened after that. First of all - the white race exists and it is a biological fact, not a social construct. I'm not going to advocate hate towards Jews in my next statement, but just imagine replacing the word "white" with "Jew" in Ignatiev's article. Ignatiev is a racist extremist and if racism is bad - which it is - then Ignatiev should be thrown in prison and had the key thrown away.
Are Irish white? They weren't in the US. Spanish are white in Europe, their South American decendants are not. It's an inconsistant concept, so he certainly got a point.
I'd say Sweden, mainly due to his choice of church posted in the other thread.
I'm saying American. Some of the stuff shows that he's not particulary familiar with Swedish politics, and he's been talking about Obama and Jesus (Sweden is extremely secular). Odd usage of communist and satanism. Mixing zionism and left wing policies (the Swedish left is quite aggressive against zionism). That's one reason why I haven't been linking stuff that much. Most about Sweden is in Swedish.
truth1337
08-03-2012, 21:14
Are Irish white? They weren't in the US. Spanish are white in Europe, their South American decendants are not. It's an inconsistant concept, so he certainly got a point.
There is a problem with denying the existence of a race, and that is that you're free to extinct it without anyone being able to call you racist. I doubt you'd dare to say "Jews are an inconsistent concept", and then enforce racial mixing for all Jews, and state that "it is racist" for them to claim they exist. Or - use the word "blacks". There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for making such statements about white people if you don't have the guts to make them about every other race.
I'm saying American. Some of the stuff shows that he's not particulary familiar with Swedish politics,
My dear friend, I have personal relations with 11 of the highest politicians in Sweden. Unlike you, I read alternative media, not marxist media, and have been part of several political parties, so I have seen the inside.
I can really recommend you to start reading www.friatider.se or nationell.nu if you want to know what is really going on. Yes, many of the concepts they state will shock you as "racist" or "anti-this-or-that" at first, but if you give it some time and see how the articles connect as a whole, you will see that they are describing the different networks of corruption that exist in Sweden, especially within culture, quite well. The purpose of the programming in mainstream media that what they say is "hateful" will become clear, when you realize that admitting facts such that average IQ varies by race doesn't have the purpose of instigating violence, but to investigate what realistic ways for coexistence without false assumptions yields.
I'm not saying you have to agree with anything of what those alternative media say. I'm just saying you should try to read those papers for a few months and see if the information makes you change your mind about anything. If you think they're lying about anything, check their sources by doing some google research at the very least - but for each minute you spend investigating a claim from alternative media, notice that unless you're a hypocrite you should thereafter spend the exact same amount of time to investigate claims from mainstream media.
It is simply not a viable option these days anymore, to get one side represented by themselves, and the other side represented by ridiculed strawmen and deliberately modified quotations. Read both sides from their own viewpoint, and judge for yourself.
and he's been talking about Obama and Jesus (Sweden is extremely secular).
True, Sweden is quite secular.
Odd usage of communist and satanism.
Communism was founded by Mordechai Levy (aka Marx) and Moses Hess. Marx admitted he was a satanist numerous times, most well-known is the following quotation:
"Thus Heaven I've forfeited,
I know it full well,
My soul, once true to God,
Is chosen for hell."
Mixing zionism and left wing policies (the Swedish left is quite aggressive against zionism).
Expo and AFA are pro-zionist. V holds occasional anti-Israel rallies but they aren't that aggressive. S is mildly pro-zionist. Mp claims to be anti-zionist, but in their support of world government and massive immigration, they actually end up being pretty much a fanclub for the Federal Reserve.
Sarmatian
08-03-2012, 21:43
I'm saying American. Some of the stuff shows that he's not particulary familiar with Swedish politics, and he's been talking about Obama and Jesus (Sweden is extremely secular). Odd usage of communist and satanism. Mixing zionism and left wing policies (the Swedish left is quite aggressive against zionism). That's one reason why I haven't been linking stuff that much. Most about Sweden is in Swedish.
And Sweden is also a communist country so he couldn't be from there.
Communism was founded by Mordechai Levy (aka Marx) and Moses Hess. Marx admitted he was a satanist numerous times, most well-known is the following quotation:
"Thus Heaven I've forfeited,
I know it full well,
My soul, once true to God,
Is chosen for hell."
How can someone who totally negates the existence of God and anything God-related be a satanist?
truth1337
08-03-2012, 21:57
How can someone who totally negates the existence of God and anything God-related be a satanist?
A good point. The simple answer is that satanism can be many things, anything from leading people away from Christ towards atheism, to being in general a worshipper of evil and of doing everything the opposite of what is normal, to hatred for nature, to actually worshipping the devil. Laveyan satanism didn't exist at that time, but it is more about neo-paganism with indulgence and a superficial lifestyle, using the word satanism mainly to provoke. Marx falls into the first category obviously, the second possibly, and the third certainly. The fourth his quote implies but it could be "mere poetry". The fifth, no, since Laveyan satanism didn't exist at that time.
Moreover, if you think communists always mean what they say, then you are certainly naive! What other ideologies do you have such endless trust for, that you would believe everything they said? Judging from the massmurder of 60 million people and enslaving the rest under cattle-like conditions, they didn't really live up to their promise of being "for worker's rights" as they claimed in the USSR, did they?
Ironside
08-03-2012, 23:26
There is a problem with denying the existence of a race, and that is that you're free to extinct it without anyone being able to call you racist. I doubt you'd dare to say "Jews are an inconsistent concept", and then enforce racial mixing for all Jews, and state that "it is racist" for them to claim they exist. Or - use the word "blacks". There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for making such statements about white people if you don't have the guts to make them about every other race.
The problem is that the original source of what you said is corrupt and not saying what you said it does. Since twisting the original information or outright lies are common, a better source is needed.
My dear friend, I have personal relations with 11 of the highest politicians in Sweden. Unlike you, I read alternative media, not marxist media, and have been part of several political parties, so I have seen the inside.
I can really recommend you to start reading www.friatider.se or nationell.nu if you want to know what is really going on. Yes, many of the concepts they state will shock you as "racist" or "anti-this-or-that" at first, but if you give it some time and see how the articles connect as a whole, you will see that they are describing the different networks of corruption that exist in Sweden, especially within culture, quite well.
I'm more suprised that they have developed a separate terminology and rethoric compared to the mainstream with simular opinions. I'm not talking about journalistic media, I'm talking about forum posters and news comments.
And I have to test:
Språkförvrängningen beror på att jag verkligen vill kolla din svenska. Retoriken är faktiskt så främmande and det känns småbizzart.
Vad tycker du om Reinfelds nya term angående historiska blodsband? Problematiken kommer ifrån att den saknar bra definitioner. Räknas en viss melodifestivalvinnare som detta, eller bara till hälften? Jag antar att är bekant med Reinfelds egen historia, så räknas han? Det är en term som är enkel vid ändarna, men har massiva fluktationer i mitten.
The purpose of the programming in mainstream media that what they say is "hateful" will become clear, when you realize that admitting facts such that average IQ varies by race doesn't have the purpose of instigating violence, but to investigate what realistic ways for coexistence without false assumptions yields.
IQ is one of those concepts that get complicated pretty fast. For example, a genetically population A in country A will have an IQ of 100. It moves to country B and due to better education will have 110. Because of regional reasons, poplulation A splits into 2 groups, B and C. Only because of this, group B vill have a low social status, while C will have a high one. Now they score 100 and 120. Their genes never changed
Not counting the nice ones of can you coexist with people slighty stupider than you? You've survived this far haven't you (add that your mind will fake it and you'll be surrounded by idiots, even when they really are slightly smarter than you)? Racism and prejudeces will have a field day with this as well.
When the Arabs were better on science (and made their own contributions, used still today), than the European, were they also biologically smarter?
It has some points, but it's a quagmire. And it's only real influence would be on the really smart ones and the mentally handicapped and those are found out more and less by itself.
I'm not saying you have to agree with anything of what those alternative media say. I'm just saying you should try to read those papers for a few months and see if the information makes you change your mind about anything. If you think they're lying about anything, check their sources by doing some google research at the very least - but for each minute you spend investigating a claim from alternative media, notice that unless you're a hypocrite you should thereafter spend the exact same amount of time to investigate claims from mainstream media.
Communism was founded by Mordechai Levy (aka Marx) and Moses Hess. Marx admitted he was a satanist numerous times, most well-known is the following quotation:
"Thus Heaven I've forfeited,
I know it full well,
My soul, once true to God,
Is chosen for hell."
That sounds mostly an athiest statement, unless there's alot in the same vein. Yes, I know that you decided to define atheism as satanism.
I have to say, it should be interesting to read your own opinion on how society should look like. You did reject liberalism and a lot of the movements about every man being equal for example.
Sarmatian
08-04-2012, 00:46
A good point. The simple answer is that satanism can be many things, anything from leading people away from Christ towards atheism, to being in general a worshipper of evil and of doing everything the opposite of what is normal, to hatred for nature, to actually worshipping the devil. Laveyan satanism didn't exist at that time, but it is more about neo-paganism with indulgence and a superficial lifestyle, using the word satanism mainly to provoke. Marx falls into the first category obviously, the second possibly, and the third certainly. The fourth his quote implies but it could be "mere poetry". The fifth, no, since Laveyan satanism didn't exist at that time.
So, basically, every atheist is a satanist?
And that's easy compared to next question - what is normal?
Moreover, if you think communists always mean what they say, then you are certainly naive! What other ideologies do you have such endless trust for, that you would believe everything they said? Judging from the massmurder of 60 million people and enslaving the rest under cattle-like conditions, they didn't really live up to their promise of being "for worker's rights" as they claimed in the USSR, did they?
I don't believe that politicians ever mean what they say, communist or not. And don't go into 60 million people and cattle like conditions. It always ends badly.
That is not what a satanist is, you cannot make up a definition of satanism and use it to insult people in that way. So let's just say for argument's sake I was a monk who lived in practical isolation, living a life clean of any impurities (drug-related, sexual, or otherwise) and had never harmed another living thing in my life, but I took on a student and did not teach him about the teachings of Jesus Christ. Would that make me a satanist? I realize that's a horrible argument, but so is making up your own definition for a very controversial and well-discussed word such as satanist.
I've known a few satanists, not those who sacrifice virgins to create the Antichrist, but the ones that just live their lives the way they want to and let others do the same. Guess what, they were all better people than the fundies I've known.
truth1337
08-04-2012, 07:06
So, basically, every atheist is a satanist?
Another good point out of my slightly careless phrasing. The answer is of course no. Leading people away from God slash nature, towards unnatural things, can be seen as satanic only if it is combined with a compulsive belief that nature or God is evil and must be destroyed or changed beyond recognizeability.
I don't believe that politicians ever mean what they say, communist or not. And don't go into 60 million people and cattle like conditions. It always ends badly.
Great! I hope you are vigilant and be sure to learn of concepts such as the Hegel dialectic and false flag attacks, which are often used to bring about such conditions where massmurder is possible.
truth1337
08-04-2012, 07:08
That is not what a satanist is, you cannot make up a definition of satanism and use it to insult people in that way. So let's just say for argument's sake I was a monk who lived in practical isolation, living a life clean of any impurities (drug-related, sexual, or otherwise) and had never harmed another living thing in my life, but I took on a student and did not teach him about the teachings of Jesus Christ. Would that make me a satanist? I realize that's a horrible argument, but so is making up your own definition for a very controversial and well-discussed word such as satanist.
I've known a few satanists, not those who sacrifice virgins to create the Antichrist, but the ones that just live their lives the way they want to and let others do the same. Guess what, they were all better people than the fundies I've known.
I was once a satanist myself, so I know what I'm talking about. Secondly, I admitted and clarified my poor phrasing (due to late time of the day!) in the post just above this one. Not teaching about Christ is not satanism. Actively leading people away from Christ, isn't satanism. But compulsively wanting to destroy nature and God, being almost scared of the existence of natural things, and always wanting to turn everything natural as unnatural as possible, is satanism - because it is hatred for nature slash God.
truth1337
08-04-2012, 07:30
The problem is that the original source of what you said is corrupt and not saying what you said it does. Since twisting the original information or outright lies are common, a better source is needed.
I'm not your research assistant, look it up yourself if you doubt it. This is not a political discussion about who gets elected for presidency, but a discussion to widen one's views. If you're not shocked enough by the revelations I've make so far to look it up yourself, and in general starting to be curious to check such things up in general, I've failed my purpose of the discussion anyway even if I would convince you of this particular statement (which is true). In the same way, I don't want you to believe me without checking what I say. The purpose of the discussion is that noone should be trusted because they may be sheep in wolves clothing.
I don't care who gives the impression of "having won the discussion" in archaic pre-Socrates terms, I only want people to start realizing that mainstream media is lying to them - especially about multi-culti - and start doing their own research.
Despite all the proof I've given that massmedia claims must be double-checked before they are believed, you're still reluctant to the thought that mainstream media may be lying about anything. I'll leave fetching that source as an exercise. A hint is to visit youtube and use the search phrase:
"police confirm all assault rapists in oslo made by immigrants"
Since you trust mainstream news so much, I believe you'll like the first search hit.
Språkförvrängningen beror på att jag verkligen vill kolla din svenska. Retoriken är faktiskt så främmande and det känns småbizzart.
Vad tycker du om Reinfelds nya term angående historiska blodsband? Problematiken kommer ifrån att den saknar bra definitioner. Räknas en viss melodifestivalvinnare som detta, eller bara till hälften? Jag antar att är bekant med Reinfelds egen historia, så räknas han? Det är en term som är enkel vid ändarna, men har massiva fluktationer i mitten.
Reinfeldt är jude, precis som Sarkozy och alla andra som talar om rasblandning - medan de själva naturligtvis vägrar rasblanda sig - Sarkozy är t.ex. ihop med en kvinna som skryter om att hon inte har en droppe icke-judiskt blod i kroppen. Dessutom är Reinfeldts fras att etniska svenskar inte existerar kusligt lik Golda Meirs uttalande om att palestinier inte existerar. Vi vet alla vad som hände efter det. Jag kommer inte kunna övertyga dig med en miljon bevis, om du är låst i ett tankesätt att du måste försvara mainstream-medias åsikt. Därför tänker jag istället först fråga - vilken bevisning skulle vara tillräcklig för att du skulle anse det bevisat, att mainstream massmedia ljuger om syftet med multi-kulti?
IQ is one of those concepts that get complicated pretty fast. For example, a genetically population A in country A will have an IQ of 100. It moves to country B and due to better education will have 110. Because of regional reasons, poplulation A splits into 2 groups, B and C. Only because of this, group B vill have a low social status, while C will have a high one. Now they score 100 and 120. Their genes never changed
Yeah sure, all the things white people are good at are worthless. Thank good we have all these fast black runners, what would mankind do without them! Thank good for all black and hispanic inventors, without whose help we wouldn't have airplanes, cars, printing presses etc. Chinese and white people are - and this is not racism but fact - the people who have done the most for mankind in terms of technological inventions.
When the Arabs were better on science (and made their own contributions, used still today), than the European, were they also biologically smarter?
This is a common misconception fed to the Swedish people by mainstream communist media - that the whole muslim world was some kind of superior science center back in the days. Actually if you start looking, it was only small parts of the whole muslim world that was active with science in every time period, and one of the main centers of that science was not the purely Arabic areas, but areas such as Khiva and Samarkand, while in other parts scientists were persecuted. You need only read about the Ottoman attitude to Ibn Rushda's works, to see that Swedish massmedia is not merely exaggerating, but also lying. Not only that, but they also don't tell you how the khaliphate treated their slaves. You may think the mainly Jewish and partly white transatlantic slave trade (which people like Spielberg and Tarantino who produces for the Weinstein brothers tries to blame on whites only) was bad - but the reason the khaliphate slaves have no offspring to tell of the horrors was because they castrated all slaves, because they didn't want the risk of them having children with racially pure Arabs. The castration was immensly cruel, and cost 7 out of 8 their lives before they were even transported to their owners.
It has some points, but it's a quagmire. And it's only real influence would be on the really smart ones and the mentally handicapped and those are found out more and less by itself.
IQ is not perfect, but the denial of stronger intelligence of whites than many other people, is racist when you at the same time admit that black people run faster. Why the hypocrisy that all things whites are good at are to be called worthless?
You did reject [...] every man being equal for example.
Show me where I did this. Also, define your own view of what being equal means. Is it consequence ethical equality, or rule ethical equality? I.e. is the worth of each life the same, or should every decision treat everyone equal? In the former case, it means a murderer would lose his value and may be killed in self-defense because he is a treat to a greater number of equally worth people, than one who kills him. In the latter case, it means a murderer maintains his value and may only be captured alive. And if there is starvation and one of ten would die, the murderer would according to that view deserve as much chance to be one of the 9 that gets food, as all the others.
So, do you support rule ethical or consequence ethical equality?
Ironside
08-04-2012, 18:32
I'm not your research assistant, look it up yourself if you doubt it. This is not a political discussion about who gets elected for presidency, but a discussion to widen one's views. If you're not shocked enough by the revelations I've make so far to look it up yourself, and in general starting to be curious to check such things up in general, I've failed my purpose of the discussion anyway even if I would convince you of this particular statement (which is true). In the same way, I don't want you to believe me without checking what I say. The purpose of the discussion is that noone should be trusted because they may be sheep in wolves clothing.
I don't care who gives the impression of "having won the discussion" in archaic pre-Socrates terms, I only want people to start realizing that mainstream media is lying to them - especially about multi-culti - and start doing their own research.
It's mainly because I'm not wanting to dig through everything the guy has written to see the accurarcy of your claims, since the original statement was false. From what I can see, it shows up in Harward magazine to be thought provoking on that the concept of the white race is largely built on a social construct. Can a place who acclaims a lot on critical thinking recommend a book from an author with opinions that they disagree on, if the book still contains something of value? Yes. Are that author influencial? No. Are he completely considered a nutter (like the other one you mentioned)? No.
Despite all the proof I've given that massmedia claims must be double-checked before they are believed, you're still reluctant to the thought that mainstream media may be lying about anything. I'll leave fetching that source as an exercise. A hint is to visit youtube and use the search phrase:
"police confirm all assault rapists in oslo made by immigrants"
Since you trust mainstream news so much, I believe you'll like the first search hit.
I'm aware of that one. You don't think it's shown up here before?
Reinfeldt är jude, precis som Sarkozy och alla andra som talar om rasblandning - medan de själva naturligtvis vägrar rasblanda sig - Sarkozy är t.ex. ihop med en kvinna som skryter om att hon inte har en droppe icke-judiskt blod i kroppen. Dessutom är Reinfeldts fras att etniska svenskar inte existerar kusligt lik Golda Meirs uttalande om att palestinier inte existerar. Vi vet alla vad som hände efter det. Jag kommer inte kunna övertyga dig med en miljon bevis, om du är låst i ett tankesätt att du måste försvara mainstream-medias åsikt. Därför tänker jag istället först fråga - vilken bevisning skulle vara tillräcklig för att du skulle anse det bevisat, att mainstream massmedia ljuger om syftet med multi-kulti?
Där ser man.
Reinfeldts föräldrar är inte judar, men han kanske tillhör "kryptojudar". Senast jag såg någonting angående etniska svenskar så var det Reinfeldt som försvarade sitt användande av uttrycket. Det skulle kräva rätt tunga bevis, dvs erkännande mer eller mindre, av någon med reell makt och inte någon med marginellt till icke-existerande inflytande eller tydlig inkonsekvens ifrån vad de säger i jämförelse ifrån hur de handlar. För att ta dig som exempel. Jag finner idén om en judisk-marxistisk konspiration bizarr, men det betyder inte att jag antar att du ljuger om detta och har en annan plan istället.
Yeah sure, all the things white people are good at are worthless. Thank good we have all these fast black runners, what would mankind do without them! Thank good for all black and hispanic inventors, without whose help we wouldn't have airplanes, cars, printing presses etc. Chinese and white people are - and this is not racism but fact - the people who have done the most for mankind in terms of technological inventions.
It is. Did the Chinese become dumber when they stopped being in the technological frontier?
This is a common misconception fed to the Swedish people by mainstream communist media - that the whole muslim world was some kind of superior science center back in the days. Actually if you start looking, it was only small parts of the whole muslim world that was active with science in every time period, and one of the main centers of that science was not the purely Arabic areas, but areas such as Khiva and Samarkand, while in other parts scientists were persecuted. You need only read about the Ottoman attitude to Ibn Rushda's works, to see that Swedish massmedia is not merely exaggerating, but also lying. Not only that, but they also don't tell you how the khaliphate treated their slaves. You may think the mainly Jewish and partly white transatlantic slave trade (which people like Spielberg and Tarantino who produces for the Weinstein brothers tries to blame on whites only) was bad - but the reason the khaliphate slaves have no offspring to tell of the horrors was because they castrated all slaves, because they didn't want the risk of them having children with racially pure Arabs. The castration was immensly cruel, and cost 7 out of 8 their lives before they were even transported to their owners.
Andalusia and Baghdad was pretty big as well. But open-minded areas with a lot of mixing seems to've been most effective.
IQ is not perfect, but the denial of stronger intelligence of whites than many other people, is racist when you at the same time admit that black people run faster. Why the hypocrisy that all things whites are good at are to be called worthless?
Because it's one of those things that doesn't do well after simplification. Cultural values and attitudes are more important than the brainpower. Say that you know 100 blacks and 100 anglo-saxons. You'll find 1 more really clever among the white and one 1 more really stupid among the blacks. That's what it means. That's not what people are going to draw as conclusions.
Show me where I did this. Also, define your own view of what being equal means. Is it consequence ethical equality, or rule ethical equality? I.e. is the worth of each life the same, or should every decision treat everyone equal? In the former case, it means a murderer would lose his value and may be killed in self-defense because he is a treat to a greater number of equally worth people, than one who kills him. In the latter case, it means a murderer maintains his value and may only be captured alive. And if there is starvation and one of ten would die, the murderer would according to that view deserve as much chance to be one of the 9 that gets food, as all the others.
So, do you support rule ethical or consequence ethical equality?
You called liberalism and feminism as spawns of communism. I doubt you'll say anything different about socialism, anarchism and social democracy. What they do have together is the idea of equality. They do have very different ideals on focus, what it's means and how to reach it.
Ideally, the murder maintains his value. In reality, it won't always work and never will, but that's the ideal.
Sarmatian
08-04-2012, 20:52
Another good point out of my slightly careless phrasing. The answer is of course no. Leading people away from God slash nature, towards unnatural things, can be seen as satanic only if it is combined with a compulsive belief that nature or God is evil and must be destroyed or changed beyond recognizeability.
Why do you equate God with nature?
Great! I hope you are vigilant and be sure to learn of concepts such as the Hegel dialectic and false flag attacks, which are often used to bring about such conditions where massmurder is possible.
Mass murders weren't exclusive to communism.
Considering cattle like conditions, at the moment I'd very much like to trade my piss-poor, almost-starving paradise-like democratic conditions for a car, nice house, two holidays a year, free health care and free education cattle-like communist conditions.
truth1337
08-04-2012, 21:37
Andalusia and Baghdad was pretty big as well. But open-minded areas with a lot of mixing seems to've been most effective.
And what happened to "multi-cultural" Andalusia? Is that the way we want to go? Or, indeed, to the 7th generation immigrants in South Africa today? Or, what happened to the indians and the palestinians? As you see, multi-culti usually doesn't work so well.
Because it's one of those things that doesn't do well after simplification. Cultural values and attitudes are more important than the brainpower. Say that you know 100 blacks and 100 anglo-saxons. You'll find 1 more really clever among the white and one 1 more really stupid among the blacks. That's what it means. That's not what people are going to draw as conclusions.
Actually the whole bell curve is moved strongly to the left for blacks compared to whites. This is a fact, just as the whole bell curve is further right for blacks in terms of running.
and social democracy
Social democracy, like national socialism, was a reaction towards communism, i.e. giving roughly the same promises as communism, but actually following them instead of carrying out massacres and causing massive engineered famine disasters.
What they do have together is the idea of equality.
Ideally, the murder maintains his value. In reality, it won't always work and never will, but that's the ideal.
Interesting. That explains a lot of your philosophy. In short, anytime during Stalin's massacres of 60 million white Russians, if someone wanted to stop Stalin, he would be a really big "sinner" according to your moral philosophy, if he used lethal violence towards Stalin?
truth1337
08-04-2012, 21:39
Why do you equate God with nature?
Because that is what makes it easiest to understand what he is. He is everything that exists. That which is true, is God. The main difference, is that God is also a force that makes sure evil will always be defeated by those of pure heart.
Considering cattle like conditions, at the moment I'd very much like to trade my piss-poor, almost-starving paradise-like democratic conditions for a car, nice house, two holidays a year, free health care and free education cattle-like communist conditions.
Which communist dictatorship would give you that? The USSR, or North Korea, or Turkmenistan, or Burma, or Cambodia?
Sarmatian
08-04-2012, 22:43
Because that is what makes it easiest to understand what he is. He is everything that exists. That which is true, is God. The main difference, is that God is also a force that makes sure evil will always be defeated by those of pure heart.
Well said. Throw in "he's got them" and you can invade Iraq or alternatively "world peace" and you can become Miss America.
Which communist dictatorship would give you that? The USSR, or North Korea, or Turkmenistan, or Burma, or Cambodia?
I was mostly thinking Yugoslavia.
Kagemusha
08-04-2012, 22:52
truth1337 . One has to wonder.What is your opinion concerning National Socialism?
truth1337
08-04-2012, 23:00
I was mostly thinking Yugoslavia.
Now Yugoslavia was mild communism, leaning towards social democratic. Tito used the word communism mainly to keep the USSR off him. It was probably the best system they could make of Yugoslavia at that time, but the etnical mixing didn't work out that well, did it?
I personally believe current Serbia would have all the opportunities in the world unless the UN and EU were sabotaging. The theft of Kosovo from Serbia - thus giving the heartlands of traditional Serbia away to muslim immigrants - was criminal. That land should be returned, and the immigrants sent back home. With such a starting point, Serbia would have a great chance of turning into a great rich country. If you have the same type of bank gangsters controlling your banks as we do, you need to throw them out as well.
truth1337
08-04-2012, 23:19
truth1337 . One has to wonder.What is your opinion concerning National Socialism?
Verboten. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Holocaust_denial_law)
Tristuskhan
08-04-2012, 23:59
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?142164-What-can-YOU-do-to-help-defeat-communism&p=2053472880&viewfull=1#post2053472880
So, what's your opinion then? I have a great-grandfather who was deported in Buchenwald, was everything he told his family when he came back in summer '45 part of an hoax orchestrated by who knows who? Or maybe you know who?
You can speak freely here as far as I know.
Papewaio
08-05-2012, 06:24
Phone books.
What do thy do?
List phone numbers of course.
And address
And name.
Using phone books it was possible to compare and contrast populations Pre and post WWII. That's just one source.
You could of course use the IBM powered census.
Denying the holocaust is up there with denying moon landings or believing in a flat earth.
Hooahguy
08-05-2012, 06:49
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?142164-What-can-YOU-do-to-help-defeat-communism&p=2053472880&viewfull=1#post2053472880
Dude, seriously.
Look up Irving vs. Lipstadt. Then come back and stop being a moron.
I mean come on dude, you cant be that ignorant. Besides, Zundel's "research" has been smashed repeatedly. And the Canadian court didnt validate his claim.
Moron.
And of course 6 million isnt an exact number. It might be slightly more, or slightly less. There are still undiscovered mass graves out there. Plus the 6 million isnt including all the gypsies and other "undesirables" the Nazis murdered.
On a similar topic, what is your opinion about the Nazi Aktion T4 program?
Major Robert Dump
08-05-2012, 07:11
Truth1337 ic correct. People often forget about all the good things a person does because they make a few (million) slip ups in their life. And Genghis Khan baked some really mean cookies.
This is a common misconception fed to the Swedish people by mainstream communist media - that the whole muslim world was some kind of superior science center back in the days. Actually if you start looking, it was only small parts of the whole muslim world that was active with science in every time period, and one of the main centers of that science was not the purely Arabic areas, but areas such as Khiva and Samarkand, while in other parts scientists were persecuted.
Nobody is denying the contributions of Persian, Indian, Chinese and Greek writers and scientists to what we commonly refer to as the Islamic Golden Age. However, fact remains that the Abbasid caliphs in Baghdad and the Fatimid caliphs in Cairo were active patrons of science and scientists. The problem starts when you try to explain the general decrease of science in the Islamic world by linking it to something totally unrelated, such as religious fundamentalism. There are several factors that contributed to the decrease of scientific output in the Islamic world, even though it continued well into the 17th century.
Dude, seriously.
Look up Irving vs. Lipstadt. Then come back and stop being a moron.
I mean come on dude, you cant be that ignorant. Besides, Zundel's "research" has been smashed repeatedly. And the Canadian court didnt validate his claim.
Moron.
And of course 6 million isnt an exact number. It might be slightly more, or slightly less. There are still undiscovered mass graves out there. Plus the 6 million isnt including all the gypsies and other "undesirables" the Nazis murdered.
On a similar topic, what is your opinion about the Nazi Aktion T4 program?
Much more probably, the Polish Ukrainians and Russians had a taste for it as well.
truth1337
08-05-2012, 10:37
So, what's your opinion then? I have a great-grandfather who was deported in Buchenwald, was everything he told his family when he came back in summer '45 part of an hoax orchestrated by who knows who? Or maybe you know who?
You can speak freely here as far as I know.
No holocaust denial at the .Org.
truth1337
08-05-2012, 10:39
Denying the holocaust is up there with denying moon landings or believing in a flat earth.
I would say, the fact that revising the Holocaust is forbidden just like revising the idea that the earth is flat was forbidden to question back in the Medieval ages, says a lot more.
Hooahguy
08-05-2012, 11:54
Verboten. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_Holocaust_denial_law).
Way to ignore 95% of the evidence there buddy.
You love to prance around saying something is the truth while ignoring the evidence that contradicts you, while relying on false evidence.
The gas chambers were proven. The fact Jews were meant for extermination has been proven.
Also, German civilians were as thin as the inmates? Do you ignore everything that doesn't align with your world view? Are you that stupid?
Warning: graphic picture.
Sorry Hooah, the picture too graphic for the forum.
How can you even make such a claim.
Such a claim comes from two things:
1) You are indoctrinated.
2) You are a Neo Nazi.
I would say, the fact that revising the Holocaust is forbidden just like revising the idea that the earth is flat was forbidden to question back in the Medieval ages, says a lot more.
It's not forbidden here, it's perfectly legal. There is hardly any reason to do so though. Of the 100.000 jews that got hauled out here only a few survived it. Only a very small amount of them actually got killed in the gas-chambers, most just died doing forced labour, but they were killed nonetheless
"How can you even make such a claim.
'Such a claim comes from two things:
1) You are indoctrinated.
2) You are a Neo Nazi."
Not so much Hoaah, the gas chambers you will find today aren't real they were built by the Russians. They existed, but they were in Trablinka which is a few miles from Auswitz. It's all so much worse then the official 6 million probably, many many more.
taken from Source:
(http://www.unitedagainstracism.org/pages/thema02.htm)
The general aim of the Holocaust denial is to challenge and ridicule the history of Jewish suffering during the war. The deniers want to rehabilitate fascism by denying its past. Holocaust denial is the most extreme form of antisemitism and it shows how the system of antisemitic thought functions. Holocaust denial is therefore a result of classical antisemitism. As Ken Stern writes in his book Antisemitism Today, "Holocaust denial is about Jews, not about Holocaust" (2006).
1. WHAT ARE THE MAIN CLAIMS OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL?
The international movement of Holocaust denial uses several strategies and lines of argumentation. They use a range of tactics, from outright denial of facts of the Nazi genocide to various forms of minimalization and trivialization of the Nazi crimes.
The first, most extreme, strategy is explicitly denying the facts of the genocide of the Jewish people, which according to the deniers simply never took place and is a wholly fabricated story, which in their opinion was invented in the interests of the state of Israel and the international Jewish conspiracy. In particular, all evidence of killing people in gas chambers is disputed by the deniers. Of course, such extreme claims of the Holocaust deniers are easily defeated, simply by quoting the numerous testimonies of survivors and witnesses of the Holocaust. For this reason, the revisionists pay some attention to challenging the survivors' accounts, accusing them all of being motivated by self-interest or falsified. Similarly, a number of Holocaust deniers invested some energy into claiming the famous diary of Anne Frank is false and it was allegedly written after the war.
They tell stories which are simply self-contradictory. And applying to emotion here over some imaginary suffering is sick and disgusting
When they cannot refuse to admit that Jews and other victims of Nazism did die during World War II, the revisionists argue that the number of people killed was in fact much smaller than generally thought. Reports of atrocities and mass killing are considered exaggerated. They attempt to minimize the amount of suffering and destruction which resulted from Nazi policies in Europe, claiming the causalities were simply results of armed conflict and diseases, and not of an intentional policy of genocide conducted by Hitler and his allies.
Finally, in order to trivialise and relativize the Nazi crimes, the revisionists try to give them a kind of justification by claiming that Nazi brutality was not worse than alleged atrocities committed by the other side during World War II, the Allied bombing of Germany, especially of Dresden, being mainly exploited for this purpose (members of regional parliament of the rightwing extremist National Democratic Party of Germany even applied the term "bombing holocaust" when referring to the Allied bombing of Dresden).
many died due to starvation and typhus due to allied bomb raids.
The revisionists like to cite examples of other events in world history to show that brutality is "normal" throughout ages and the Nazis should not be blamed for using harsh methods. They often mention the crimes of communism and argue that the crimes of fascism were not unique and in some ways Hitler's war could be seen as defence of European values against communism.
Jews led the Bolshevik massmurder of 60 million white people
Finally, we have the question on the Operation Barbarossa - was that a pre-emptive strike against a 100% sure threat, or an imperialistic declaration of war by Hitler? Was his motives really Lebensraum, or the fact that the USSR was trying to take over all of Europe to spread Gulags and turn people into human cattle?
... [My] views, if they are true, depict him (Hitler) as an incredibly good philantropic fighter for peace and culture. On the other hand the mainstream media and hollywood and 40ies USSR version of it, accuse him of deeds that would make him a demon in anybody's view.
Holocaust denial comes in a variety of forms, however it is often more implicit than explicit. Subtle forms of Holocaust denial can also appear through discursive methods such as quotation marks, usage of the words 'claim', 'allege' etc. Today when outright denial is hardly credible, subtle means become more common practice.
2. WHO ARE THE MAIN EXPONENTS OF HOLOCAUST DENIAL?
The first Holocaust deniers were Nazis themselves. Today Holocaust denial is promoted by a small but internationally connected group of amateur historians and political activists. The international Holocaust denial movement has some leading figures such as David Irving in Great Britain, David Duke and Arthur Butz in the United States, Robert Faurisson in France, Ernst Zündel in Canada. They differ in the focus of their revisionist agenda, but what they share is a clear antisemitic political outlook, based on the desire to rehabilitate fascism and to promote the fight against a 'global Jewish conspiracy'.
This quiz is broken, where is David Duke? [...]
Holocaust denial is strongly linked with antisemitism. As there is no universally agreed definition of antisemitism, it is appropriate to present here the definition, which will fit to our understanding of the term in the context of the Holocaust denial phenomenon:
"Antisemitism is hatred toward Jews and is directed toward the Jewish religion, Jews as a people, or, more recently, the Jewish state. Antisemitism frequently charges Jews with conspiring to harm non-Jews and is often used to give an explanation for why things go wrong. It is expressed in speech, writing, visual forms, and action, and regularly employs stereotypes."
The majority of known Holocaust deniers have strong connections with political movements whose agendas are antidemocratic. A leading example is David Irving who has been described by a British court as a "Holocaust denier who associates with rightwing extremists promoting neo-Nazism". Other examples of known Holocaust deniers linked with political organizations include Nick Griffin, the leader of the extreme-right British National Party as well as David Duke, a former leader of the Ku-Klux-Klan. It is clear that Holocaust denial here is just an element of a much broader political programme directed against minorities and against democracy as such.
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4. LEGAL AND ACADEMIC RESPONSES TO HOLOCAUST DENIAL
In many countries in Europe the Holocaust denial is forbidden by law and, in fact, it can easily be condemned. Many states also have broader legislation against racial and ethnic hatred. European intergovernmental organizations passed resolutions and signed agreements to commemorate the Holocaust and to condemn its denial. It includes the Declaration of the Stockholm International Forum on the Holocaust; the European Parliament Resolution on remembrance of the Holocaust, antisemitism and racism; the various declarations of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (e.g. the Permanent Council Resolution in 2004, the Berlin Declaration in 2004, the Cordoba Declaration in 2005, the Brussels Declaration of the OSCE Parliamentary Assembly in 2006, the Bucharest Declaration in 2007).
Many states, especially in Western Europe adopted different approaches against Holocaust denial, including monitoring of Holocaust denial discourse by academic and non-governmental organizations, punitive measures such as fines, imprisonment and even deportations. Here are some examples of successful measures against Holocaust deniers.
Zündel Trial
German national Ernst Zündel living in Canada is known as an owner of the publishing house "Samizdat Publications" which is infamous for producing and disseminating Holocaust denial material. He is also a co-author of the book The Hitler we loved and why. Zündel propagates the notion that the world is controlled by an international "Zionist conspiracy" that is destroying the white race. Zündel also has a web-site which publicizes his antisemitic views. In January 2002, the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal found that his web-site propagating hate speech is against the Canadian Human Rights Act. Zündel was ordered by the court to stop hate messages. In February 2003 he was arrested in the United States and then deported to Canada. In Canada, before he was deported to Germany, he stayed in prison until March 2005. In February 2007 in Germany, Zündel was convicted on 14 counts of incitement under Germany's Volksverhetzung law, which bans the incitement of hatred against a minority of the population and was sentenced to five years in prison.
Irving Trial
In 1998 the most known Holocaust denier David Irving sued American scholar Deborah Lipstadt and Penguin publishing house claiming that they libelled him in her book Denying the Holocaust. He used Great Britain's loose libel laws to file a suit for defamation. In her book Lipstadt accused Irving of misrepresentation of evidence and called him, among other things, "one of the most dangerous spokespersons for Holocaust denial". She also pointed to his links with neo-Nazi figures and organizations. David Irving's purpose was to silence criticism and to publicize widely his ideas through the court case. Holocaust deniers appeal to the freedom of speech in case of refusal to present and discuss their ideas on an equal footing with others. As a result of work of Lipstadt and other historians, Irving's suit was dismissed. In November 2005 David Irving was arrested when he went to Austria to give a lecture to a far-right student group. He was accused of denying the existence of gas chambers at Auschwitz in his speech and interview in Austria in 1989. He spent a year in jail there before gaining early release.
Robert Faurisson Case
French Holocaust denier Robert Faurisson was suspended from his university teaching position and brought before a court for denying that the Nazi gas chambers had existed. In July 1981, the Paris Court of Appeal stated that his words "would arouse in his very large audience feelings of contempt, of hatred and of violence towards Jews in France."
There are not so many similar examples from Eastern and Central Europe, but still not all those denying the Holocaust are unpunished. Thus, for example, in 1999 Dariusz Ratajczak, a popular lecturer at the University of Opole was suspended from his university post following protests over his book Dangerous Topics. In his book Ratajczak claimed that for technical reasons it was impossible for the Nazis to kill people with Zyklon B and that Nazis did not have plans for the extermination of the Jews. Ratajczak was subsequently convicted by the court.
In Hungary the criminal proceedings were initiated against outright deniers Albert Szabo and Istvan Gyorkos, who claimed that the Holocaust is a hoax. Both of them were linked with US Nazi and Austrian neo-Nazi movements.
For example, in 2000, the Polish translation of David Irving's biography of Hitler's right-hand man Hermann Göring by a state-owned company was stopped by the joint efforts of anti-fascists from the "Never Again" Association and the media.
In May 2007, Holocaust denier David Irving visited the Warsaw International Book Fair. His aim was to promote his books, which question the important facts about the Holocaust, such as the existence of the gas chambers at the Auschwitz death camp. As a result of the media campaign initiated by the "Never Again" Association, Irving was immediately ejected from the Book Fair by the organizers.
Many countries in Eastern Europe have made some important gestures to recognize the facts of the Holocaust in the recent years. A number of public figures and scholars such as Holocaust survivor and Warsaw Ghetto Uprising leader Marek Edelman in Poland or Romanian-born Nobel Prize winner and Holocaust survivor Elie Wiesel speak out against Holocaust denial.
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It is not only the "Jews", "Russians", "Allies" and "Everyone Else" who speak out against the acts, even the SS members at the camps come clean about the acts.
Hans Münch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_M%C3%BCnch) - SS Physician at the Auschwitz concentration camp
so firmly determined that one cannot have any doubt at all
Oswald Kaduk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oswald_Kaduk) - German SS-Unterscharführer and Rapportführer at Auschwitz concentration camp
(Interviewer) Today there are many people that say Auschwitz was a lie, that nobody at all was gassed.
(Kaduk) I have to say, I do not consider these people normal. We have to stick to the truth. There are people denying it, but what happened, happened, and it is not up for dispute.
Josef Klehr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Klehr) - head of the SS disinfection commando at Auschwitz concentration camp.
Jews never gassed? No? Yes, I have already been asked about that. ...Three elderly ladies come to visit us here. That is such an official society. They always want to support us a little bit, to give us a present on our birthdays, and so on, and one of them asked me once if people were gassed in Auschwitz? I said - I will tell you openly and honestly, but if it were someone else, I would have answered that I did not know. But because it is you, I will tell you precisely, that people were gassed. And anyone who maintains that there are no gassing....Yes, I don't understand him, he must be crazy or on the wrong.... When you are three, four years in Auschwitz and experienced everything, then I cannot get myself to lie about it and say that no gassings were ever conducted.
Oskar Groning (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Gr%C3%B6ning) - former German SS-Rottenführer at Auschwitz concentration camp
I saw everything, the gas chambers, the cremations, the selection process. One and a half million Jews were murdered in Auschwitz. I was there
I would like you to believe me. I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematoria. I saw the open fires. I was on the ramp when the selections took place. I would like you to believe that these atrocities happened because I was there
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In short, this is a Total War website, not a forum for hate speech.
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