McKinnon Extradition Halted

[Fisherking]

Gary McKinnon's Extradition is Halted after a decade in court.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2218786/Gary-McKinnon-Theresa-May-courageously-decides-Aspergers-sufferer-NOT-extradited.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

I am American but I think this is a good thing.

Your thoughts?

[InsaneApache]

Time for a bacon sandwich and a cup of tea.

[Fragony]

Gawd that's undoable

[Ronin]

If he is aware of what he did, (and the fact he is aware [and concerned] he could be deported indicates he is) he should be deported.

having said that, just as a matter of principle, in practical terms, this issue in on page 87 of my list of issues I care about, it comes right after "are we eating too much garlic as a society?".

[Rhyfelwyr]

Why is everyone saying he would have suffered inhumane/degrading treatment in the US?

[Greyblades]

The CIA has a reputation of having No sense of humor when it comes to hackers here, it's feared he'll be given too harsh a sentance for something that was stupid and illegal but pretty much harmless. At least that's how I see it.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Why is everyone saying he would have suffered inhumane/degrading treatment in the US?

It's America, the entire Justice System is inhumane.

[Strike For The South]

hy·per·bo·le/hīˈpərbəlē/

Noun:


Exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

hy·per·bo·le/hīˈpərbəlē/



Noun:


Exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.







America: Only Western "Civilised" nation with the death penalty.

I'm sorry, but if you guys didn't speak English, wear suits and have a majority-white population Europe wouldn't look at you.

[Strike For The South]

look at us for what?

[Beskar]

Why is everyone saying he would have suffered inhumane/degrading treatment in the US?

Private Mega-Prisons, the conditions are very bad. Makes Shawshank redemption look like paradise. Anyway, he should have been tried in Britain and sentenced in Britain and serve any time if needed in Britain, there is no need for an extradition.

[rvg]

America: Only Western "Civilised" nation with the death penalty.

Yeah. We're awesome like that.

[Kralizec]

The way I understand it is that the guy is mentally unstable and extradition would exacerbate his suicidal tendencies. Extradition to the US in this particular case would be inhumane, not in general.

It's also noteworthy that in order to refuse extradition the Home Secretary willfully used the Human Rights Act, which she repeatedly bashed on other occasions when it got in the way of extraditing brown people.

[rory_20_uk]

The way I understand it is that the guy is mentally unstable and extradition would exacerbate his suicidal tendencies. Extradition to the US in this particular case would be inhumane, not in general.

It's also noteworthy that in order to refuse extradition the Home Secretary willfully used the Human Rights Act, which she repeatedly bashed on other occasions when it got in the way of extraditing brown people.

Yeah, those who arrange acts of terrorism / incite violence are completely equal to a hacker looking for data on UFOs... the only difference is the colour of their skin!

Racist!! Raaaaaacist!!!

~:smoking:

[Kralizec]

Not so much. The nature of the crime for which extradition is requested isn't really relevant; if McKinnon was wanted for a much more serious crime the reasoning would have been just as valid. Allthough it admittedly is hard to picture a timid nerd with asperger syndrome as committing an act of terror or whatever.

The phrasing ("brown people") was meant to be trollish, glad to see I succeeded :thumbsup:

[rory_20_uk]

I think the nature of the crime should have a bearing - especially if the nature of the crime is not recognised in the UK.

We should have done what Germany did when one of their doctors accidentally killed two patients in the UK on the same shift. They tried him over there and gave him some pathetic slap on the wrist for a double manslaughter. So, we try him for this and give him say 12 weeks community service. Since he has been "punished" for his crimes, end of matter.

~:smoking:

[Kralizec]

That's a dilemma. You could argue it's ridiculous to allow extradition for crimes that don't have an equivalent in your own system, but on the other hand people are generally expected to obey the laws of the land they happen to be on. McKinnon did not physically visit the USA, but the impact of his actions was in the USA, which I expect is the reason why the USA claims jurisdiction (and the UK doesn't deny it)

I'd be surprised to learn that hacking into MI6' computer systems would not technically be punishable under UK law.

...

Is that this guy? (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8195113/Disgraced-doctor-found-guilty-of-gross-negligence-manslaughter-allowed-to-practice-in-Germany.html)

It's hard to commment except by saying that he comes across as a dangerously incompetent/lax "doctor" whose formal qualifications are in doubt. I don't know the facts of the case, what Germany's motives were to keep him from British justice, or more generally what Germany's policy on extradition is.

It reminds me of a Dutch neurologist who falsely and deliberately diagnosed dozens of patients with Alzheimer and other ailments and gave them treatments they didn't need. I don't think I ever read anything definitve, but there was speculation that his motive was monetary; with the money from treatment he could fund his own drug addictions. The neurologist was scrapped from the register but about a year later he was found to be working at a German hospital. I'm pretty sure there were plans to prosecute him for this and some other stuff, but I don't know what happened since.

[rory_20_uk]

America claims juristiction over everyone, everywhere. It also refuses to recognise juristiction of anyone else, anywhere, be that drone flights, special forces insertion or the International Courts.

I imagine hacking MI5/6 would be treason if nothing else (if they wanted it to be - lets face it, in the UK terror laws are used to investigate where people live for applications to school and to remove people from conferences when they are heckling).

~:smoking:

[Tellos Athenaios]

A 12 months' prison sentence seems likely. At least that is what the SIS employee got (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/03/mi6-worker-jailed-sell-secrets).

Then again maybe he got time off for trying to sell to the Dutch. As per his lawyer:

From: http://www.smh.com.au/world/graduate-recruit-carried-secrets-out-of-mi6-20100715-10crf.html#ixzz29fxIfjDg

Houghton's lawyer, Michael O'Kane, said the thought of some foreign spy agencies gaining the information ''would send a shiver down the spine of everyone in this courtroom. The Dutch do not fall into that category.''

[Furunculus]

Private Mega-Prisons, the conditions are very bad. Makes Shawshank redemption look like paradise. Anyway, he should have been tried in Britain and sentenced in Britain and serve any time if needed in Britain, there is no need for an extradition.

it had already been agreed that any custodial sentence would have been served in the UK apparently.

not often i agree with alan johnson, but this argument might cover it:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9617793/Theresa-May-took-the-easy-way-out-over-Gary-McKinnon.html

[Beskar]

Though for the sake of argument, couldn't they held the trial in an US Embassy? Even then, there didn't even need to be a trial since it is a guilty plea. I just have a preference for people to have the option of serving time in their respective countries opposed to foreign ones. So if Furunculus was getting tried in Russia for a crime, I believe he should be allowed to come to the UK to serve it out.

[rory_20_uk]

Though for the sake of argument, couldn't they held the trial in an US Embassy? Even then, there didn't even need to be a trial since it is a guilty plea. I just have a preference for people to have the option of serving time in their respective countries opposed to foreign ones. So if Furunculus was getting tried in Russia for a crime, I believe he should be allowed to come to the UK to serve it out.

I'm less convinced - why should you go home to some sort of very loose "house arrest" when otherwise you'd be under lockdown for 23 hours a day... and as in the case of the UK, why should we have to foot the bill for every person who commits a crime abroard?

~:smoking:

[Beskar]

I'm less convinced - why should you go home to some sort of very loose "house arrest" when otherwise you'd be under lockdown for 23 hours a day... and as in the case of the UK, why should we have to foot the bill for every person who commits a crime abroard?

~:smoking:

Depends on the nature of the treaty and with which countries, obviously. Typically within "Western" nations, they usually have binding agreements which they stick to.

[Shokifer]

I'd just like to imagine what would happen if Britain just told the Americans to sod off.

USA: hey we want this hacker guy who's in your country.

UK: lol nope. fuck you.

The political ramifications would be beautiful to behold.