Offspring

[Kadagar_AV]

I posted this article (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/398913/20121027/chinese-man-divorce-sues-wife-ugly-child.htm) in News Of The Weird...

But it gave food for thought, and I wanted to highlight a part of it.

How important is it for you, that your offspring look somewhat like you?

I was startled a couple of years ago when I was together with an asian girl. A girl asked me; "Do you really want asian looking kids?"

I was absolutely dumbfounded by the question. It hit me hard. When I thought about it, I always envisioned my kids to look somewhat like me. So yeah, I would very much prefer the future mother of my children to at least be of the same vague race.

This is what my gut tells me is right, but I cant defend the position intellectually. In fact I find myself wrestling with it.

Same goes for adoptions. I can not, ever, see myself adopting a kid. It wouldn't be MY kid, so why would I invest all my love and efforts into it? I want me to do it, but I honestly can't say I would.

Lately this view of mine has got me in trouble with my family. My sister got together with a guy who had two kids since before. She now has a kid with him. I see that kid as part of my family, but not the other kids. I have no bloodline with them what so ever.

So I offer to help my sisters kid with his skiing, but I don't extend the favour to the two other kids. This caused an emotional uproar in that family, and I felt like an absolute ****. But hey, at the end of the day, I have to stick to my beliefs.

Yes I do care about my sisters son because it is my sisters son.

No I don't care about these two other kids she has made part of her family, as they are no family of mine.

Don't get me wrong, if I happen to have a day off I would of course help them to ski.

But with HER son I would make sure I had time, and also sort all equipment and everything else around it. IfYouGetIt...

Am I alone feeling this way?

[rvg]

Am I alone feeling this way?

Hardly. Blood matters. Before I became a father it didn't hit me just how much it matters. To put it simply, my daughter is one of the two people on this entire planet for whose sake I would kill and die without hesitation.

[Strike For The South]

If you spent half as much time worrying about the inside of your child as you did the outside, you might make a half decent father.

People who care about "blood" generally grew up in a house with stable "blood"

As an adopted child, I will probably end up adopting children, blood be damned

[Kadagar_AV]

If you spent half as much time worrying about the inside of your child as you did the outside, you might make a half decent father.

People who care about "blood" generally grew up in a house with stable "blood"

As an adopted child, I will probably end up adopting children, blood be damned

I don't know if your theory is correct. I grew up with a half-brother and half-sister on my mothers side, I was my dads only child (possibly...?)

I think that it was my fathers death, more than anything else, that made me more centered about who is family and not. Having to share the grief and his assets with "siblings" who had a whole other view of him and relationship to him than I had, was very painful.

After that, I realized that nothing can make up for the natural bond between parents and their children. SFTS, I hope you dont get offended being an adoptee. I understand that it's sensitive to you, but I have to be honest.

[Strike For The South]

Clearly it something that is highly colored by perception.

But blood is only as special or as important as you make it

[Kadagar_AV]

Clearly it something that is highly colored by perception.

But blood is only as special or as important as you make it

Euhm... Yes and no...

With "blood" I of course talk about DNA, genetics and so on... And there I would have to argue against you. Genetics DOES matter. I for one could never be the best soccer player in the world, ever. My mum and dad just didn't give me that ability.

They gave me kick *** balance though, so skiing is a breeze :)

So again, genetics does matter. The carte blanche doesn't exist, do you really claim otherwise?

[Strike For The South]

Genetics matter.

But not in the way you think they do.

Entire scientific theories based on supposed human lineage have been debunked

[Kadagar_AV]

Genetics matter.

But not in the way you think they do.

Entire scientific theories based on supposed human lineage have been debunked

So explain it then...

Where I come from, genetics are extremely important in deciding a child's future. Sure, environment has a big impact, say.... roughly half or so? But environmental factors is not A-Z in deciding factors here, is it?

[Strike For The South]

So explain it then...

Where I come from, genetics are extremely important in deciding a child's future. Sure, environment has a big impact, say.... roughly half or so? But environmental factors is not A-Z in deciding factors here, is it?

Well where I come from its not.

Plenty of people with supposedly great lineage have fizzled
Plenty of people with supposedly shite lineage have blossomed
What people often ascribe to genetics are really far reaching societal or cultural mores that are so large and intertwined in everyday life people don't notice it

I don't really understand what you're getting at.

[Beskar]

Blood doesn't matter. Afterall, you don't marry Family members since you can only love them, right?

You can and do form bonds with people who do not share the same genetic material. I even have friends who I love more than family members. I even thought my step-fathers family was closer then my fathers side, I loved them as I loved my aunts/uncles, etc. Even called his mother "Nana". It simply depends on the environment the kids are raised.

It was when I ended up hitting around 16-17 is when this changed. It seems it was far easier to be accepted when I was a child, but later on, these arguments came in, I wasn't a "real family member". Then members of my step-fathers family, people who I accepted as if they were 'blood' were distant and cold about it, and that was terribly heartbreaking to simply end up rejected so majorly.

So fostering and adoption.. it really is taking on a child and raising them as your own, it is the joys of having that close relationship with some one and it is perfectly viable and possible. In a way, it is like owning a pet. Pet's become "members of the family" and they are an entirely different species!



So I offer to help my sisters kid with his skiing, but I don't extend the favour to the two other kids. This caused an emotional uproar in that family, and I felt like an absolute ****. But hey, at the end of the day, I have to stick to my beliefs.
I put it this way. Imagine that family together, then you simply take that one kid out of the three and they get to go Skiing, etc. How do you make the other children feel? Jealous? Rejected? They are no longer with their mother and you felt the need to rub it in, because they are not blood. It is perfectly possible for you to be an uncle to them, they might even end up viewing you as their favourite and you having a healthy relationship with them.

Want my honest opinion? Is it just your sisters son with her and her husband, or the three of them? if it is just him, then you can do just him sort of guilt free. If it is the three of them, then you should take all three.


Where I come from, genetics are extremely important in deciding a child's future. Sure, environment has a big impact, say.... roughly half or so? But environmental factors is not A-Z in deciding factors here, is it?

No, 90% of it is environment, 10% is genetics.

[rvg]

Blood doesn't matter. Afterall, you don't marry Family members since you can only love them, right?
There's a difference though. Relationship with a spouse is a two way street. Parents' love for their children is unconditional.


You can and do form bonds with people who do not share the same genetic material. I even have friends who I love more than family members. I even thought my step-fathers family was closer then my fathers side, I loved them as I loved my aunts/uncles, etc. Even called his mother "Nana". It simply depends on the environment the kids are raised.
That might be the case for a small nuclear family. In large close knit extended families blood is paramount.



It was when I ended up hitting around 16-17 is when this changed. It seems it was far easier to be accepted when I was a child, but later on, these arguments came in, I wasn't a "real family member". Then members of my step-fathers family, people who I accepted as if they were 'blood' were distant and cold about it, and that was terribly heartbreaking to simply end up rejected so majorly.
See? Blood matters.


So fostering and adoption.. it really is taking on a child and raising them as your own, it is the joys of having that close relationship with some one and it is perfectly viable and possible. In a way, it is like owning a pet. Pet's become "members of the family" and they are an entirely different species!
Would you die for your pet though?


No, 90% of it is environment, 10% is genetics.
Except that environment favors the genetics. Not being of the same blood as the rest of the clan is hardly an advantage.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I posted this article (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/398913/20121027/chinese-man-divorce-sues-wife-ugly-child.htm) in News Of The Weird...

But it gave food for thought, and I wanted to highlight a part of it.

How important is it for you, that your offspring look somewhat like you?

I was startled a couple of years ago when I was together with an asian girl. A girl asked me; "Do you really want asian looking kids?"

I was absolutely dumbfounded by the question. It hit me hard. When I thought about it, I always envisioned my kids to look somewhat like me. So yeah, I would very much prefer the future mother of my children to at least be of the same vague race.

This is what my gut tells me is right, but I cant defend the position intellectually. In fact I find myself wrestling with it.

Same goes for adoptions. I can not, ever, see myself adopting a kid. It wouldn't be MY kid, so why would I invest all my love and efforts into it? I want me to do it, but I honestly can't say I would.

Lately this view of mine has got me in trouble with my family. My sister got together with a guy who had two kids since before. She now has a kid with him. I see that kid as part of my family, but not the other kids. I have no bloodline with them what so ever.

So I offer to help my sisters kid with his skiing, but I don't extend the favour to the two other kids. This caused an emotional uproar in that family, and I felt like an absolute ****. But hey, at the end of the day, I have to stick to my beliefs.

Yes I do care about my sisters son because it is my sisters son.

No I don't care about these two other kids she has made part of her family, as they are no family of mine.

Don't get me wrong, if I happen to have a day off I would of course help them to ski.

But with HER son I would make sure I had time, and also sort all equipment and everything else around it. IfYouGetIt...

Am I alone feeling this way?

OK - first off, you are a normal man.

Blood matters, no doubt.

Having said that, it isn't everything. Step-siblings are actually really tricky because they aren't something you or your parent chose, they're part of a package deal when two people with children get together.

Adoption is a lot simpler, really, when you choose to adopt a child you are making a commitment to that child which is of the same value as the one you make to your bloodkin, and your bloodkin had better well fall in line behind that or they aren't worth having.

How I think this relates to your situation and what my advice is - if your sister has adopted these other two children then she has given them equal status to her own child and you should respect that and do the same. If she hasn't then I don't think you have any special obligations. Take the children as you find them, if you like them then extend them whatever support you deem appropriate.

After all, supporting your sister's step children won't harm her son, will it?

As far as the future speculative mother of my children - the last girl I had a thing for (not the one I made a thread about) had roughly the same Anglo-Scandinavian-Welsh background I do. Her eyes have more gold in than mine, her hair is a few shades lighter and her cheeks are rosier, but yeah, we look like we're the same tribe.

[ajaxfetish]

I put it this way. Imagine that family together, then you simply take that one kid out of the three and they get to go Skiing, etc. How do you make the other children feel? Jealous? Rejected? They are no longer with their mother and you felt the need to rub it in, because they are not blood. It is perfectly possible for you to be an uncle to them, they might even end up viewing you as their favourite and you having a healthy relationship with them.

I think this is the key part, Kadagar. However much you feel the blood relationship matters to you, you also need to pay due attention to tact. Based on your own views, your sisters family will be all the harder to forge into a unit, since two of the kids lack a blood bond to one of the parents. If you, the extended family, are excluding them, you're weakening the part of their family bond that needs the most support. That's just rude. Deep down, you don't need to feel the same connection to them that you do to their sibling. But on the surface, you need to treat them like you do.

Ajax

[rvg]

Deep down, you don't need to feel the same connection to them that you do to their sibling. But on the surface, you need to treat them like you do.
Tact is one thing. There's little need to fake a bond that isn't there. Those kids aren't stupid, they can spot insincerity.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I think it is impossible to know if there is a difference unless you have raised both biological and adopted kids. Who knows, there may well be foster parents that love their kids as if they were their own. Although I would think you would have to raise them from pretty young to have a proper parent-child relationship.

And although your feelings are normal Kadagar, you should try to include those kids even if they are not blood, things have probably been hard enough on them already. Even if you don't feel it, you owe it to them to try.

oh and inb4 irony of me giving advice on anything to do with human interaction...

[spankythehippo]

Nature Versus Nurture. Nurture wins.

I grew up in an Asian family. I don't hold the same views, and couldn't care less about the lineage of my offspring (although I highly doubt I will have any). Of course, my parents want me to settle down, and have a family of my own. What they don't say, but imply, is "Spanky, get a Japanese wife".

If I ever get married, which I also highly doubt, the race of my potential significant other is irrelevant. If I like her, then it doesn't matter where she's from.

[rvg]

Something like 90+% of people marry into the same racial, ethnic, religious and social group they were born into.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The "if I like her" is far more likely if you come from the same ethnic and social group - because you will have more in common.

[spankythehippo]

The "if I like her" is far more likely if you come from the same ethnic and social group - because you will have more in common.

I'm a hairy Japanese guy with long hair and a beard that listens to death metal. How much more un-Asian can you get?

In my case, the same social group is a more viable factor than same ethnic group. I cannot say the same for the majority of other people, though.

[rvg]

I'm a hairy Japanese guy with long hair and a beard that listens to death metal. How much more un-Asian can you get?

In my case, the same social group is a more viable factor than same ethnic group. I cannot say the same for the majority of other people, though.

Just don't bring home a Chinese or a Korean girl...

[Papewaio]

Something like 90+% of people marry into the same racial, ethnic, religious and social group they were born into.

In Australia 80% of Indian women marry an Indian man, whilst only 10% of American women marry another American.

Chinese men are 91% likely to marry a Chinese woman.

Overall it hits around 40% mixed marriages.

[Ironside]

Tact is one thing. There's little need to fake a bond that isn't there. Those kids aren't stupid, they can spot insincerity.

True, but it's not that hard to treat other people's children decently. In this case, it's not to pedistal the favorite.

[Kadagar_AV]

Thanks for the replies :)

SFTS, anecdotal evidence wasn't really what I was after here...

Tiaexz , You talk about how adoptees become part of the family, before going on how the other family members grew cold and distant to you... Wouldn't that strengthen my point?

Also, I don't get what you meant drawing the parallel of getting a pet... Most parents would take a bullet for their kid, how many would take a bullet for their dog, or cat?

PVC, My sister and her guy has been together 3 years, but I have only been around them for 2 years as I used to live in Austria. The two other kids my sisters BF brought from his past relationship are 9 and 13. They live with their mom every other week.

There is just no chance I can see them as my family.

Not only do we not have any genetic scraps in common, they have also been raised by non-family, and continue spending 50% of the time in another family.

So... my half-sister have two "plastic kids" (Swedish term, what is the correct english one?) every other week... I do feel it hard to see much (or any) of my familys nature OR nurture in them.

The fact that the boy is a whiny girlieboy of course doesn't help, I feel like bonking him on the head when I see him.

My sister has not adopted these kids, but in Sweden it's culturally accepted that their arrangement gives her equal status in society's eyes (Sweden, remember? Basically imagine famlily views drafted HoreTore).

Ajaxfetish, as someone mentioned, I think the kids can read insincerity. Also, when I take on a child and make it my family, it means I would do ANYTHING for this kid. I just... do... not... feel.... like doing that with these 2 others.

I'm not rude to the two other or anything, I help them and behave around them like I would with, say, the kids of a work mate that you like. I take interest in them, I can toss them a favour.... But I would not let their well being and education interfere too much with my life.

Rhyf, It's not like I exclude them. If I am at their place I treat them like I do any kids (generally go down on their mental level and have fun). I'm talking about the bigger things, like, taking my youngest kid skiing for a weekend and such. I don't mind having one kid along, 3 is a whole other deal... And if two of them are ill raised "strangers"... Then...

[rory_20_uk]

I want my own children.

My son's mother is not the same race as me. He is clearly my son. He is not the same colour but that is only one facet.

~:smoking:

[Sigurd]

Right... so you take a 2 year old skiing? A bit on the early side...

[Kadagar_AV]

Right... so you take a 2 year old skiing? A bit on the early side...

He'll be 2,5 this winter... It's not too early, starting that young is in fact great, as the kids don't have any fears yet. So you can just hook them up to a line, lock the tips of their skis together so they cant do anything stupid, and then you can take them on any run (You just have to make short turns behind them to control their speed as you hold a line attached to their harness).

I can honestly say that I am a very very good ski instructor. I take pride in few things, but that is most def one.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I'm a hairy Japanese guy with long hair and a beard that listens to death metal. How much more un-Asian can you get?

In my case, the same social group is a more viable factor than same ethnic group. I cannot say the same for the majority of other people, though.

Find a Japanese metal fan, guarantee you'll have a broader gambit of stuff in common with her than a white metal fan.


In Australia 80% of Indian women marry an Indian man, whilst only 10% of American women marry another American.

Chinese men are 91% likely to marry a Chinese woman.

Overall it hits around 40% mixed marriages.

10% of American women in Australia?


PVC, My sister and her guy has been together 3 years, but I have only been around them for 2 years as I used to live in Austria. The two other kids my sisters BF brought from his past relationship are 9 and 13. They live with their mom every other week.

There is just no chance I can see them as my family.

Not only do we not have any genetic scraps in common, they have also been raised by non-family, and continue spending 50% of the time in another family.

So... my half-sister have two "plastic kids" (Swedish term, what is the correct english one?) every other week... I do feel it hard to see much (or any) of my familys nature OR nurture in them.

The fact that the boy is a whiny girlieboy of course doesn't help, I feel like bonking him on the head when I see him.

My sister has not adopted these kids, but in Sweden it's culturally accepted that their arrangement gives her equal status in society's eyes (Sweden, remember? Basically imagine famlily views drafted HoreTore).

Ah - I get it. The boy's a whiny little bitch and you want to slap him into being a man, but you can't.

But also - she didn't marry this guy when she took on his kids? Did he marry the other woman?

Sounds dodgy to me.

[Kadagar_AV]

Find a Japanese metal fan, guarantee you'll have a broader gambit of stuff in common with her than a white metal fan.



10% of American women in Australia?



Ah - I get it. The boy's a whiny little bitch and you want to slap him into being a man, but you can't.

But also - she didn't marry this guy when she took on his kids? Did he marry the other woman?

Sounds dodgy to me.

Oh... He was VD of a large company, my sister was working for him... He was married and had two kids, but are now together with my sister and they have a child together. I don't respect him OR my sister for that, it very much goes against my moral principles.

But I am sidetracking the issue (maybe?).


I am proud of my family name. I have a proud family history, so of course I see it as a mission to make all parts of the family a proper [insert surname here]. But how am I supposed to do that with two kids who are NOT [insert surname here]?

[Montmorency]

Not only do we not have any genetic scraps in common,

99.999% is not enough for you?

[Sigurd]

He'll be 2,5 this winter... It's not too early, starting that young is in fact great, as the kids don't have any fears yet. So you can just hook them up to a line, lock the tips of their skis together so they cant do anything stupid, and then you can take them on any run (You just have to make short turns behind them to control their speed as you hold a line attached to their harness).

I can honestly say that I am a very very good ski instructor. I take pride in few things, but that is most def one.

You are the instructor and I can't say what is norm. But I didn't start my career until I had finished devloping my motory skills and was able to ski on my own. That was the philosophy of the generation of my parents and produced great skiiers like Lasse Kjus and Kjetil Andre Åmot. Then it was all about letting the child keep balance on their own and use no aids.


I went up against Lasse when young. We were about the same height, weight and age.
Since I am from the west, we tend to be more focused on freestyle, and I did train with the national freestyle team when in highschool, but I was a bit heavier than the average freestyler and preffered downhill. No one dared to take me on amongst the people I socialized with then. The Navy took me out of active training and I am kinda inactive these days, being a casual skiier... taking a few breaking turns when the ski partol is around :sneaky:

[Kadagar_AV]

99.999% is not enough for you?

Now you are grasping at straws... No, I do most def not feel as connected to asian kid as I would my own kid, just because we share human DNA. You would, or what was your point?


You are the instructor and I can't say what is norm. But I didn't start my career until I had finished devloping my motory skills and was able to ski on my own. That was the philosophy of the generation of my parents and produced great skiiers like Lasse Kjus and Kjetil Andre Åmot. Then it was all about letting the child keep balance on their own and use no aids.


I went up against Lasse when young. We were about the same height, weight and age.
Since I am from the west, we tend to be more focused on freestyle, and I did train with the national freestyle team when in highschool, but I was a bit heavier than the average freestyler and preffered downhill. No one dared to take me on amongst the people I socialized with then. The Navy took me out of active training and I am kinda inactive these days, being a casual skiier... taking a few breaking turns when the ski partol is around :sneaky:

Those both were the generation above me, so we probably haven't met on the slopes then.

Basically, if you can walk you can ski. We have equipment we use today we didn't have when you were young, and we also teach more developed techniques..

Don't get me wrong, a 2,5 yo is by no means optimal, for group lessons I would say 4 yo minimally. But now we talk about a kid having a dedicated personal instructor with a safety harness and skies you can't cross. Kids that small have no weight, so controlling them on a elastic leash is no problem what so ever.

They wont learn short turns anytime soon of course, the main reason I'd take kids that young is that skiing should be something they "just do", it shouldnt be something they "learnt". You basically remove all elements of fear from skiing, which in the long run will enhance their skiing progress a LOT over the years :)

So we who are into skiing doesnt start our kids young to enhance their technique short term, the training is directed towards eleminating fear and making skiing a natural mean of movement rather than something "special you occasionally do".

My dad was a ski instructor, and he changed diapers on me up on the glaciers.

[Beskar]

Tiaexz , You talk about how adoptees become part of the family, before going on how the other family members grew cold and distant to you... Wouldn't that strengthen my point?

No, it doesn't strengthen your point, it weakens it immensely. Because the fact that the child in this case (me) loved non-blood family members as much as my blood ones. It was only those who focused on that point who grew cold, but those close to me still retained their bonds.

It is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You think it will be an issue, so you see it as an issue.

Also, since you now provided information, the children live with their mother. You can feel safe not seeing them as part of your family as they are not involved with your family. If the children were living with your sister, it is an entirely different point.

I did get along with my step-mothers family, but it was nice gestures and hellos. You don't need to go "out" of your way for them, but it might be nice to be at least pleasant towards them.

[ajaxfetish]

Ajaxfetish, as someone mentioned, I think the kids can read insincerity. Also, when I take on a child and make it my family, it means I would do ANYTHING for this kid. I just... do... not... feel.... like doing that with these 2 others.

I'm not rude to the two other or anything, I help them and behave around them like I would with, say, the kids of a work mate that you like. I take interest in them, I can toss them a favour.... But I would not let their well being and education interfere too much with my life.

I expressed myself poorly there. I don't mean you need to try to deceive them into thinking they mean as much to you. The idea is one of equal treatment. Think of employers, who are legally allowed to despise any class of people they like, but still may not discriminate against them in hiring or treatment on the job. The same kind of principle applies.

Ajax

[Kralizec]

I think this is the key part, Kadagar. However much you feel the blood relationship matters to you, you also need to pay due attention to tact. Based on your own views, your sisters family will be all the harder to forge into a unit, since two of the kids lack a blood bond to one of the parents. If you, the extended family, are excluding them, you're weakening the part of their family bond that needs the most support. That's just rude. Deep down, you don't need to feel the same connection to them that you do to their sibling. But on the surface, you need to treat them like you do.

Ajax

This pretty much captures my thoughts on the issue. Kadagar, while your feelings are understandable, treating your biological nephew as a favourite amounts to sabotage of their new family. I wouldn't expect you to fake affection for the other two kids but you should not openly show the way you feel.

Don't take this the wrong way, but openly favoring your nephew without regard to how this looks to your sister's spouse and his kids is a little egocentric.

[Veho Nex]

My dad remarried a few years ago with a lady who had 3 kids from a previous husband. The problem with these kids is that I'm supposed to treat them like brother and sister, but 2 of them are drug addicts without a H.S. diploma and the other is a college dropout who got knocked up by some hippy who left her for a different woman.

If I knew these people in any other situation I'd look down on them. I don't see them as relatives in any sense of the word, but, I'm supposed to treat them like they are my brothers and sister.

For my other siblings I'd take a bullet for, even my half older brother who has a different dad, heck we practically look like twins. The other kids though, I wouldn't take the time to hand them a kleenex unless they specifically asked for it using my name.

[Papewaio]

Stats I provided were for couples in Australia.

=][=

KAV you do seem to be acting like a mother-in-law from hell. "No one is good enough for my family" and giving all the non related family members the cold shoulder.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What I'm hearing is that Kadagar doesn't respect his sister's boyfriend, doesn't much like how they got together and doesn't like the guys kids.

I've gotta be honest - I'm with the gigalo here.

What's he supposed to do? By the sounds of it the older children wouldn't benefit as much from the offer anyway.

[Strike For The South]

What I'm hearing is that Kadagar doesn't respect his sister's boyfriend, doesn't much like how they got together and doesn't like the guys kids.

I've gotta be honest - I'm with the gigalo here.

What's he supposed to do? By the sounds of it the older children wouldn't benefit as much from the offer anyway.

Why?

[Papewaio]

Sins of the father?

Look at it from the kids point of view. Someone has come into their parents relationship, torn it apart, had a child with their dad and now they the children get the cold shoulder because of their dad and step mums actions.

Sounds like the kids are getting multiple punishments from adults for actions other members of their group performed. That's called prejudice.

Adults should lead the way and not punish children for another adults action. Otherwise you end up with horrible outcomes such as this: http://m.smh.com.au/world/children-begged-for-lives-as-mother-stabbed-son-100-times-20121102-28nny.html

Stepmothers in fairy tales always are portrayed as horrible. Guess what the most likely female murderer is a step mum. Either we mature as a society and treat our extended families with more humanity or we can expect horrible outcomes as the consequences.

[Kadagar_AV]

I don't think I've done a very good job explaining the situation.

My sisters boyfriends two kids live with them every other week, and with their mom every other week. The family is thus already divided, not much I can do about it.

I mean, I see my nephew (more than) twice as much as the other kids regardless.

Also, don't get me wrong. When I am there, and all the kids are around, I do my best to try and give the other kids attention too... But... they... are... so... annoying...

I just have no idea how to relate to them. They are raised so fundamentally different from myself, that my attempts at being nice often goes wrong. As an example, both my grandfathers were ranking chess players. They started me on chess from... as long as I can remember really.

They both absolutely trashed me. Repeatedly. Over and over again. It wasn't until I was like 14 and a ranking player myself that I started to even come CLOSE to having a chance, and I never beat anyone of them before they died.

So, my sisters BFs oldest (a boy) says he is really good at chess, and wants to play me. So we play, and I beat him in 4 turns. He gets shocked as he never lost against grownups before (!!??), and wants a rematch. We play again and this time instead of beating him fast I focus on eliminating his pieces while not losing my own, to drag it out and make the game last longer (and give me more challenge and some fun). When he realize he is obviously utterly beaten again, he... starts to cry. And runs to his daddy for hugs and cuddling... He was 11 at the time.

How am I supposed to work with that?

I come from a male line of race car drivers, anti-nazi freedom fighters, mountain climbers...

Their dad puts helmets on the kids before they can climb trees. Compare that to my dad finding me on the middle of a cliff side, only commenting "A child could climb that" (I was 6 at the time). LOL.

It's not like I avoid the kids, or am mean to them.

It's just that I don't want to bond with them. I have absolutely no interest in taking them in. If I visit I can sit down and play monopoly with them.

The PROBLEM is that my sisters asks stuff off me. "Oh, why don't you take [oldest son] out some day and teach him to inline?"

My honest answer would be: "Why I don't? Because he is a girlie boy with no motoric ability, and given the amount of padding I am sure he would come packaged in, I would be ashamed to be seen with him on town".

That is, of course, not what I have answered... I have said "Sure, let me get back to you..."

But that starts to wear thin. I can only get away with excuses for so many years.

GAH!!

[Strike For The South]

Sins of the father?

Look at it from the kids point of view. Someone has come into their parents relationship, torn it apart, had a child with their dad and now they the children get the cold shoulder because of their dad and step mums actions.

Sounds like the kids are getting multiple punishments for actions other members of their group performed. That's called prejudice.

Well that's just it. The kids get a raw deal. The new mommy and new daddy aren't really new mommys and new daddys.

It's a shit hand all because some people cant get over the fact these children, who did nothing wrong, didn't pop out of a familiar vagina.

Simian behavior at its worst, deemed somewhat ok in society by some archaic western standard of how to pass down property.

[Kadagar_AV]

Well that's just it. The kids get a raw deal. The new mommy and new daddy aren't really new mommys and new daddys.

It's a shit hand all because some people cant get over the fact these children, who did nothing wrong, didn't pop out of a familiar vagina.

Simian behavior at its worst, deemed somewhat ok in society by some archaic western standard of how to pass down property.

I'm not sure "caring for your offspring" could, or should, be shrugged off as simian behavior at its worst.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Why?

Because there's only so much you can do with someone else's child.

What?

He takes his sister up on her request, he decides to take the boy skiing. The kid turns up wrapped like a Christmas present, and Kadagar being him takes it all off. Off they go, Kadagar teaches, the boy learns - he goes home and tells daddy how his girlfriend's brother is either

A: Actually awesome, because he let him ski without all that stupid stuff on or

B: Crazy for the same reason.

Either way - dad is now pissed.

Or, Kadagar could leave the wrapping on, the boy is encumbered and Kad gets frustrated and it's unpleasant all round.


Sins of the father?

Look at it from the kids point of view. Someone has come into their parents relationship, torn it apart, had a child with their dad and now they the children get the cold shoulder because of their dad and step mums actions.

Sounds like the kids are getting multiple punishments from adults for actions other members of their group performed. That's called prejudice.

Adults should lead the way and not punish children for another adults action. Otherwise you end up with horrible outcomes such as this: http://m.smh.com.au/world/children-begged-for-lives-as-mother-stabbed-son-100-times-20121102-28nny.html

Stepmothers in fairy tales always are portrayed as horrible. Guess what the most likely female murderer is a step mum. Either we mature as a society and treat our extended families with more humanity or we can expect horrible outcomes as the consequences.

Well - family is basically positive discrimination - the only person inflicting anything on the children really is the father, everyone else is basically just along for the ride.

[Strike For The South]

I don't think I've done a very good job explaining the situation.

My sisters boyfriends two kids live with them every other week, and with their mom every other week. The family is thus already divided, not much I can do about it.

I mean, I see my nephew (more than) twice as much as the other kids regardless.

Also, don't get me wrong. When I am there, and all the kids are around, I do my best to try and give the other kids attention too... But... they... are... so... annoying...

I just have no idea how to relate to them. They are raised so fundamentally different from myself, that my attempts at being nice often goes wrong. As an example, both my grandfathers were ranking chess players. They started me on chess from... as long as I can remember really.

They both absolutely trashed me. Repeatedly. Over and over again. It wasn't until I was like 14 and a ranking player myself that I started to even come CLOSE to having a chance, and I never beat anyone of them before they died.

So, my sisters BFs oldest (a boy) says he is really good at chess, and wants to play me. So we play, and I beat him in 4 turns. He gets shocked as he never lost against grownups before (!!??), and wants a rematch. We play again and this time instead of beating him fast I focus on eliminating his pieces while not losing my own, to drag it out and make the game last longer (and give me more challenge and some fun). When he realize he is obviously utterly beaten again, he... starts to cry. And runs to his daddy for hugs and cuddling... He was 11 at the time.

How am I supposed to work with that?

I come from a male line of race car drivers, anti-nazi freedom fighters, mountain climbers...

Their dad puts helmets on the kids before they can climb trees. Compare that to my dad finding me on the middle of a cliff side, only commenting "A child could climb that" (I was 6 at the time). LOL.

It's not like I avoid the kids, or am mean to them.

It's just that I don't want to bond with them. I have absolutely no interest in taking them in. If I visit I can sit down and play monopoly with them.

The PROBLEM is that my sisters asks stuff off me. "Oh, why don't you take [oldest son] out some day and teach him to inline?"

My honest answer would be: "Why I don't? Because he is a girlie boy with no motoric ability, and given the amount of padding I am sure he would come packaged in, I would be ashamed to be seen with him on town".

That is, of course, not what I have answered... I have said "Sure, let me get back to you..."

But that starts to wear thin. I can only get away with excuses for so many years.

GAH!!

Oh, this has nothing to do with you inability to connect with a new extended family.

You are just alpha bro


I come from a male line of race car drivers, anti-nazi freedom fighters, mountain climbers...

Is this the line that makes all the housewives drop trou?

[Kadagar_AV]

Oh, this has nothing to do with you inability to connect with a new extended family.

You are just alpha bro



Is this the line that makes all the housewives drop trou?

I think you read to much bragging into what I wrote...

Being a ski instructor is by no means "better" than being VD of a major company. I brought it up to highlight the different approaches to raising kids families can have.

Some families wrap their kids up till they look like the Micheline Man before any sort of physical activity, some families don't. From what I have seen, the first type of family can produce great academical minds. The other type of family can foster an adventure seeker.

One is not "better" than the other, just different.

But I, very personally, have a hard time trying to bond as family with someone NOT from my family, as there is a clear and wide gap in how we behave, and what we find important to pass on to a child.

EDIT: Also, the motoric skills of his two kids are under all critique... I honestly don't know where to begin.

And they are not exactly the sharpest tools either... When I was eleven I didn't brag to grownups that I was good at chess, yet I would have kicked my own behind badly had I played myself now when I was 11 years old. I was so much quicker in the head back then :)

[Papewaio]

Btw what does VD stand for... I've only seen it used for Veneral Disease

[Kadagar_AV]

Btw what does VD stand for... I've only seen it used for Veneral Disease

Sorry, bad Swenglish of me...

In Sweden, for the term CEO, we use the term "Vice Director"... As it is English I assumed it was a direct loan word. Guess I learnt my new thing of the day then :)

So HIS family have CEO's... MY family is the one with VD's. Sorry for the obvious confusion :clown:

EDIT: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/vice_director

Guess I wasn't completely stupid. Just rather stupid.

[Centurion1]

psh im part mexican asian and a butt load of different europeans east and west. Screw it. I identify most with being slavic so those are the girls i like but I could care lessl no women are off limits. And i would love to adopt; id adopt strike if he wasnt an alcoholic. Blood and ethnicity is irrelevant who cares if you look like your parents all that matters if you raise them and at the end of the day when your dying they are at your bedside saying i love you dad.

also is the swede serious about this? jesus internet anecdotes ftw

another edit: i guess my father doesnt love me because im not irish enough and am a dirty croatian. Kadagar you just drip scandinavian racism.

[Kadagar_AV]

psh im part mexican asian and a butt load of different europeans east and west. Screw it. I identify most with being slavic so those are the girls i like but I could care lessl no women are off limits. And i would love to adopt; id adopt strike if he wasnt an alcoholic. Blood and ethnicity is irrelevant who cares if you look like your parents all that matters if you raise them and at the end of the day when your dying they are at your bedside saying i love you dad.

also is the swede serious about this? jesus internet anecdotes ftw

another edit: i guess my father doesnt love me because im not irish enough and am a dirty croatian. Kadagar you just drip scandinavian racism.

It might do you good in further debates - if you don't FIRST explain how you have no family tradition before bashing people feeling a loss of theirs. Might make people read what you write with more interest, you know.

EDIT: Slavic? And here I thought you were negroid.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Too much Alpha in this thread. How is a beta poster supposed to contribute here?

[Kadagar_AV]

Too much Alpha in this thread. How is a beta poster supposed to contribute here?

Second one now.

Ok, so maybe my family traditions are meant to foster alpha men... Is that bad by any means?

To use your terminology then, eventhough I don't really believe in it: Can you understand the difficulty of a person raised to be an alpha to accept that he is expected to take care of a beta child and treat it in the beta way?

"Oooooh, did that bad bad boy say something nasty to you son? Come here *warm hug* There there... There is nothing wrong with crying.... just let it out... Ooooooh my poor baby boy. I will call the other boys parents and express my feelings, I am sure they will handle it accordingly."


Sorry, not my style.

I am more the type of guy who would access the kids abilities, give them proper training, and then throw them in the deep end of the pool. I would of course be ready to jump in, but the kid should swallow some gallons trying before i would.

But then, I am used to boys in my family line jumping in at the deep end of the pool when they feel the lust, regardless of age or flotation. I mean, surely, if others can do it so can you? Right?

Sorry for just talking about boys, but we have, like, no girls on my male family line. The closest we got is my cousin, but then she is overly lesbian and in the national hockey team. Don't get me wrong, I love her! Best wing man EVER!!!

EDIT: I don't like terms such as alpha aso... It just doesnt adhere to reality as i see it. Plenty of people are "alpha" in school, to then be complete losers in life. Plenty of people are "beta" in school, and go on to be cool disc jockeys or whatever...

I think everyone is an individual, and the alpha and beta brushes are a bit to broad to use when talking about my specific case. Sure the terms are valid when you talk about the bigger picture, but not when you talk about a single family.

I might be wrong though?

[Centurion1]

oh i have a family tradition and a pretty deep pride in my lineage. I'm in touch with my roots. I simply think your a racist xenophobe. But its okay besides for Horetore the peace loving viking most of you Scandinavians are. Like are you even aware of how ridiculous what you are saying is, you sound like a jagoff.

And guess what most Americans are like me. We don't come from racially homogenous countries with no diversity.

Edit: when he calls you alpha hes talking in a 4chan sense its mocking you I wouldn't try to turn it into part of your argument. Also did you guys know that good white europeans produce tougher more resilient children. I cried alot when I was a little boy.

[Centurion1]

Too much Alpha in this thread. How is a beta poster supposed to contribute here?

<have child
<child has dark skin
<throw it off cliff
<thisissparta.jpg
<alpha as ****

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

oh i have a family tradition and a pretty deep pride in my lineage. I'm in touch with my roots. I simply think your a racist xenophobe. But its okay besides for Horetore the peace loving viking most of you Scandinavians are. Like are you even aware of how ridiculous what you are saying is, you sound like a jagoff.

And guess what most Americans are like me. We don't come from racially homogenous countries with no diversity.

Edit: when he calls you alpha hes talking in a 4chan sense its mocking you I wouldn't try to turn it into part of your argument. Also did you guys know that good white europeans produce tougher more resilient children. I cried alot when I was a little boy.

You're the kind of American who has no concept of what Europe is - where I come from everybody is Anglo-Saxon, not white, Anglo-Saxon. The number of Scots and Welsh I knew growing up I can count on one hand - there was one black child, one middle-eastern Muslim girl and two people whose parents were Chinese, out of 1,000 children. Granted, I live in a particularly homogeneous area but in Britain that's hardly unusual.

Kadagar is normal - he isn't a racist xenophobe.

In the US you have towns split down the Middle Black/White - people go to different Churches and shops - so off the high horse.

[Kadagar_AV]

I dare you to go to a slavish nation and proclaim you are slavish.

You call ME a racist xenophobe. That is OK, it says more about your education - than my political or moral beliefs.

However, let me assure you that the lineage you seem to be proud of are the people that I would deem racist. Good luck being non-white trying to find your roots in Slavic nations.

Also, are you aware that the term "slave" comes from the "Slavic" people?

This is fun in a loop that goes on and on. WELL DONE YOU!! Why don't you write a childrens book about a Negroe who wants to be Slavic, with all the pitfalls the story would entail?