LA BELLE EPOQUE (a sequel to the CONCERT OF EUROPE)

[Franconicus]

Intro

It is January 1847.

During the last years it became more and more evident that the Concert of Europe came to an end. Although the five Grand Powers came to an amicable arrangement in the Balkans affair, Great Britain soon played its own melody, which was guided by the trade interests in the Eastern Mediterranean. Other conflicts like the Schleswig-Holstein affair or the future of Italy kept unsolved. Nationalistic and social problems are ignored.
So in 1847 the new order seems to be that England does not care any longer about what is going on on the continent and concentrates on her colonies and the oversea trade. The remaining four Grand Powers form the HOLY ALLIANCE to keep order on the continent and to free the Balkans from the heathens.
The growth of the industries is still unbroken and so is population growth. Never before it was so simple to get rich. Investments in railroad companies fly high on the stock exchange market. On the other side, many artisans cannot keep up with the new speed of production and poverty spreads even faster than richness.
The performance of this alliance against the Turks and their ally is amazingly poor. The war consumes an enormous amount of money and even the neutral states suffer from it. Furthermore the apparent incompetence of the governments and their staffs raises the unhappiness of their people. Many European countries saw a bad harvest in 1847 and the increase of the food price makes life harder for the poor.

Due to the investments in new industries and the war, it is getting harder to borow money, esp. for countries with high debts and small growth.
The United Kingdom under the government of Queen Victoria is getting stronger year by year. It left the struggles about Ireland and India behind. England is the leader in technology, it has the biggest railroad net and its industrial production is beyond any comparison. Although many say that the quality of the new machined products is poor compared to the traditional goods, the prices are ridiculous low. English goods flood the markets of Europe and the world.
Although England is in an excellent position, not all English are satisfied with the government. Part of the middle class is concerned about the isolation and fear that England will lose the European market. Others blame the Queen for the passive attitude in the Eastern Med. The war cut off important trade routes, esp. those for cotton. These let to an enormous increase in the price of American cotton. Several textile factories already released thousands of workers, the rest decreased wages. This, combined with the increase in food price, mobilizes political parties and unions. In December, more than 20,000 workers and their families gather at St. Peter's Filed near Manchester. They send a note to London demanding minimum wage, reduced price for food, the right to go on strike and changes in the voting right. The administration sends thousands of police and army forces, but it hesitates to attack. This upsets the contractors. They send a note to London demanding to arrest these bunches of criminals and threaten with forming their own securities.

France is the strongest power on the continent and in many things the antipode of England. If England has the biggest industrial production, France has the biggest market. And it does everything to improve in technology and industry. Due to the national railroad program Etoile de France the countries railroad net is growing faster than anywhere else. This gives trade and industry a kick. France produces almost as many steam engines as England these days and the textile industry is growing too. The owners of factories may not make as much profit as their English competitors, but working conditions and wages are much better. Paris is developing to the most shining and glamorous capitol of Europe.
Although the government of King Louis-Philippe was very liberal and improved the living conditions a lot, it failed in the war against the Turks. Although almost 200,000 soldiers were sent to the orient, there is almost no progress. News about the latest battles decreased the popularity of the King and his ministers drastically. After the so-called “Spanish Wedding” affair and the scandal at the Netherlands about 50,000 demonstrated at Paris. The Royal Guard moved into the capitol to restore order, the protesters built barricades and it seemed as if there was once again a political bloodbath at Paris. However, Louis-Philippe decided to give in. He retired and before he left to his English exile he laid the power into the hands of the parliament. Within one week the national parliament passed a republican constitution – once again – and nominated Napoleon, a nephew of the former emperor, to become president of the Republic of France.

Prussia is ruled by King Friedrich Wilhelm. He does not fulfill the expectations of his subject. Many had hoped that after the liberation from Napoleon, Friedrich Wilhelm would unite Germany and lead the country into a new democratic era. The Schleswig-Holstein affair decreased his popularity and after his unsuccessful engagement in the war against the Turks the liberals blame him for sending the army into the wrong war and for being the servant of Austria. The new tax system and the railroad programs develop the industry, but the country is still far behind England and France.
The government tries to protect the economy with import fees, but nevertheless cheap products from England and France threaten the existence of many artisans. The increase of food price makes this even worse.
In December hundreds of Silesian weavers organize and assault factories to destroy the machines. They demand a stop of textile imports, lower food prices and to stop the building of new railroads.

Ferdinand, the ruler of Austria, moved the focus of is policy from the former Holy Roman Empire to the Balkans, where he wants to become heir of the Ottomans. However, this policy is not accepted by all Austrians. Basically, three groups oppose the policy of the Emperor. First of all, there is the German majority, which things that Austria has a holy mission to rule over Germany. Then there are the Hungarians, which fear that new provinces on the Balkans will decrease the already small influence of Hungary. And finally there are the liberal, which think that it is a waste of resources to try to conquer some undeveloped regions instead of modernizing the country. All three think that the failures of the campaigns are nothing but a just sentence by God.
Although the government tried to support the development of the country, progress is slow. Cheap imports from England and rising food prices decrease the happiness of the people, although it is still quiet in the realm – with one exception: south of the Alps, the Italian subject of his majesty protest. They suffer most from the breakdown of the Mediterranean trade. They block the ports and the roads across the mountains.

The Russian Czar Nikolai Pavlovich Romanov is the ruler of 85 million subjects. This giant realm is hard to rule and even harder to develop. Although the Russian made some remarkable progress, the war against the Ottoman Empire discovers the weakness of the huge Russian army. Maybe the alliance with the Western European countries may help to accelerate the development.
The Czar gives the Poles a lot of independency and so far this has avoided many problems. The Kremlin has to worry, however, about the growing influence of the English at Asia. Russian participation of the Black Sea trade and the Mediterranean trade broke down completely.

The Ottoman Empire is very isolated and there is little information. Of course, the war against almost all European countries is the main problem of the Sultan. He struggles for the survival of his realm. But even if this war is successful, he has still more than enough trouble. Egypt is demanding more and more parts of his realm and the trade across the Ottoman Empire is getting more and more unimportant and unprofitable. And the gap in technology compared to the Europeans is getting bigger.

Egypt managed to defeat the French hordes and this certainly boosts moral of the population. But Alexandria and most of the coast is still occupied by the Christians. If Egypt wins, it may raise to a new Great Power in the southwestern Med. If not, it may soon disappear.

Greece is more or less a puppet in the game of the Great Powers. The war against the Ottoman Empire may make the country grow drastically or it may destroy the nation. Unfortunately, Greece has little input on the outcome of the war.

China is the new superpower in the east, at least regarding size. But it may not be able to keep pace with the west.

The United States of America are a still rising star in the western hemisphere. Some say that it is going to be a future Great Power, but this is certainly a bit too optimistically. Right now it has to solve a couple of problems, first.



England has 27 million citizens (including Ireland, but not the other colonies), tax income is 123 million per year, the nation has a debt of 317 millions. The British Army is about 100,000 soldiers, the Royal Navy has about 120 warships all over the world.
France has 35 million inhabitants and a tax income of about 124 million. The debt is 275 million. The army has about 600,000 men and the navy about 40 ships.
Prussia has 15 million people. The income is 38 million and the debt 125 million. The army is about a quarter of a million and the navy has just a handful of ships.
Austria has 32 million people, 78 million income and a national debt of 235 million. The army has about half a million soldiers and the navy has a dozen ships.
Russia has 60 million people, with an income of 85 million and a debt of 195 million. The army has 600,000 men and the navy about half a dozen ships.
Ottoman Empire has 11 million subjects, an income of 9 million and a treasure of 50 million. It has 150,000 soldiers and fleet of about 20 ships.
Egypt has 3 million people and an income of 3 million. The treasure is still 20 million. The army is about 100,000 and the navy about a dozen ships.
Greece has a population of 1 million. Income is 1.5 million and debt is 10 million. It has less than 50,000 soldiers and only a couple of ships.
China has a population of 430 million. Income is 70 million and it does not have debts. The army has 2000000 soldiers and the fleet is not worth mentioning.
USA have a population of about 17 million. The army has 150,000 men and the navy between 30 and 40 ships. Income is 30 million, debt 50 million.

[Franconicus]

Player list:


England Greybaldes
France Csargo
Austria Prince Cobra
Prussia Swordsmaster
Russia Arjos
Greece rickinator9
Ottoman Empire Kival
Egypt Peasant Phill
China The Stranger
United States of America Celtic Viking

[Peasant Phill]

I still need to catch up with the last thread.
Give me some time.

[The Stranger]

this should make it more readable :P we start this weekend? (should be enough time to read up eheh)

i noticed that UK and France list as Tax income while the others just have income, does that mean that the UK and France have more income? or did you just not bother to write tax for the other nations?

England has 27 million citizens (including Ireland, but not the other colonies), tax income is 123 million per year, the nation has a debt of 317 millions. The British Army is about 100,000 soldiers, the Royal Navy has about 120 warships all over the world.

France has 35 million inhabitants and a tax income of about 124 million. The debt is 275 million. The army has about 600,000 men and the navy about 40 ships.

Prussia has 15 million people. The income is 38 million and the debt 125 million. The army is about a quarter of a million and the navy has just a handful of ships.

Austria has 32 million people, 78 million income and a national debt of 235 million. The army has about half a million soldiers and the navy has a dozen ships.

Russia has 60 million people, with an income of 85 million and a debt of 195 million. The army has 600,000 men and the navy about half a dozen ships.

Ottoman Empire has 11 million subjects, an income of 9 million and a treasure of 50 million. It has 150,000 soldiers and fleet of about 20 ships.

Egypt has 3 million people and an income of 3 million. The treasure is still 20 million. The army is about 100,000 and the navy about a dozen ships.

Greece has a population of 1 million. Income is 1.5 million and debt is 10 million. It has less than 50,000 soldiers and only a couple of ships.

China has a population of 430 million. Income is 70 million and it does not have debts. The army has 2,000,000 soldiers and the fleet is not worth mentioning.

USA have a population of about 17 million. The army has 150,000 men and the navy between 30 and 40 ships. Income is 30 million, debt 50 million.

[Franconicus]

You are right, income is income. Well, it is a kind of netincome = income of taxtes and customs minus cost for admin. From this you pay army, fleet, research, social programs etc.

You have all freedoms a real ruler has: change taxes, promote people, make treaties with other countries, declare war etc. But watch out, this is 19th century, there are papers and public opinion counts.

I suggest to have a diplomatic phase to discuss the relationship between the players and their nations until Christmas and then one week to send me your orders.
All non-players-factions are controlled by me!
Of course you can post every question and noncofidential stuff here.

I will send a pm to everybody asap, to tell him the real army and navy size.

[The Stranger]

But watch out, this is 19th century, there are papers and public opinion counts.


not in china.

[Arjos]

New map as of 1847, with the domains of Egypt separated (I think by the ceasefire with the Ottomans, it is now independent):

https://img189.imageshack.us/img189/9581/coeworld.png

I hope this will help the new players ^^

[Franconicus]

(I hope it will help new hosts too)

Patuleia

Civil war breaks out at Portugal. Queen Maria asks the Concert of Europe for militaty help!

[Peasant Phill]

New map as of 1847, with the domains of Egypt separated (I think by the ceasefire with the Ottomans, it is now independent):

I hope this will help the new players ^^

It certainly helped me. Thanks.

[Franconicus]

I thought Crete was Egyptian!

[Kival]

I thought Crete was Egyptian!

That would have been an even worse decision from the Sultan. He'd have no connection between west and east of it's empire left.

[The Stranger]

(I hope it will help new hosts too)

Patuleia

Civil war breaks out at Portugal. Queen Maria asks the Concert of Europe for militaty help!

maria vs miguel?

ps Arjos can u put the pic in a spoiler? it takes me ages to scroll :P

[Arjos]

I thought Crete was Egyptian!

Iirc, no allied (frech, greek, austrian or russian) forces ever "liberated" it and an egyptian fleet was simply spotted near it...
Then a ceasefire was reached and it stated that the Sultan ceded the Levant...
For example I know that I fought with those Egyptians, the following year, so I figured Crete remained part of the Ottoman lands...

Ofc I can change that asap, just let me know :)

[The Stranger]

Emperor TS of China invites all nations to start peaceful diplomatic relations. If no delegation of diplomats can be sent to China, then China will send diplomats to them if they wish.

[rickinator9]

Emperor TS of China invites all nations to start peaceful diplomatic relations. If no delegation of diplomats can be sent to China, then China will send diplomats to them if they wish.

I would like to send diplomats to the barbar-peaceful chinese tribesme-people, but I cannot afford to send them. I would like to ask the evil-kind emperor TS to either send compensation for their journey or send his own diplomats to Greece.

- King Otto of Greece

[The Stranger]

*Host, how do we know the cost of such things?

[Arjos]

Joyful news for Europe and Asia!

His Imperial Majesty, Czar Nikolai; His Imperial Majesty, Kaiser Ferdinand; His Imperial Majesty, Sultan ‘Abdü’l-Mecīd-i evvel and His Majesty, Basileus Othon have signed a peace treaty, ushering a new era of peace and prosperity for all!


- Austria is granted and recognized possession of Bosnia, Serbia and Albania.
- Russia is granted and recognized possession of Moldavia, Wallachia, Bulgaria and Armenia.
- Greece is granted and recognized possession of Epirus, Thessaly, all the Aegean Islands and Northern Greece.
- Ottomans, will maintain possession of Istanbul and the european adjacent territory.

- Muslims and Jews in the ceded territories, will be allowed to emigrate to Ottoman lands, if they wish so.
- Christians (particularly Greeks and Armenians) in Anatolia, will be allowed to emigrate to their homeland regions in the christian empires, if they wish so.
- All Prisoners of War will be exchanged, irregardless of their number.

- Austria and Russia will each pay 5 milion talers to the Sultan, as compensation for the lost territories.
- Religious freedom must be granted in the ceded territories and in Ottoman lands.
- In the Aegean Sea, free trade must be assured and no military vessels permitted.

May God bless this newfound friendship and understanding!

His Imperial Majesty, Czar Nikolai, hopes that a peaceful negotiation between France and Egypt can be reached and offers the services of State Chancellor, Aleksandr Gorchakov, to help in any mediation.

[The Stranger]

i want to see the new map :D

[Prince Cobra]

- Austria is granted and recognized possession of Bosnia, Serbia and Albania.
- Russia is granted and recognized possession of Moldavia, Wallachia, Bulgaria and Armenia.
- Greece is granted and recognized possession of Epirus, Thessaly, all the Aegean Islands and Northern Greece.
- Ottomans, will maintain possession of Istanbul and the european adjacent territory.

- Muslims and Jews in the ceded territories, will be allowed to emigrate to Ottoman lands, if they wish so.
- Christians (particularly Greeks and Armenians) in Anatolia, will be allowed to emigrate to their homeland regions in the christian empires, if they wish so.
- All Prisoners of War will be exchanged, irregardless of their number.

- Austria and Russia will each pay 5 milion talers to the Sultan, as compensation for the lost territories.
- Religious freedom must be granted in the ceded territories and in Ottoman lands.
- In the Aegean Sea, free trade must be assured and no military vessels permitted.

The Austrian Empire welcomes the peaces treaty and hopes peace and stability will endure!

Prince Klemens von Metternich, Chancellor of Austria and servant of His Imperial Majesty Ferdinand von Habsburg

OOC: if Ferdinand is back then so should be Metternich. :P

[Prince Cobra]

- Austria is granted and recognized possession of Bosnia, Serbia and Albania.
- Russia is granted and recognized possession of Moldavia, Wallachia, Bulgaria and Armenia.
- Greece is granted and recognized possession of Epirus, Thessaly, all the Aegean Islands and Northern Greece.
- Ottomans, will maintain possession of Istanbul and the european adjacent territory.

- Muslims and Jews in the ceded territories, will be allowed to emigrate to Ottoman lands, if they wish so.
- Christians (particularly Greeks and Armenians) in Anatolia, will be allowed to emigrate to their homeland regions in the christian empires, if they wish so.
- All Prisoners of War will be exchanged, irregardless of their number.

- Austria and Russia will each pay 5 milion talers to the Sultan, as compensation for the lost territories.
- Religious freedom must be granted in the ceded territories and in Ottoman lands.
- In the Aegean Sea, free trade must be assured and no military vessels permitted.

The Austrian Empire welcomes the peaces treaty and hopes peace and stability will endure!

Prince Klemens von Metternich, Chancellor of Austria and servant of His Imperial Majesty Ferdinand von Habsburg

OOC: if Ferdinand is back then so should be Metternich. :P

[Kival]

Let it be known that the current Sadrazam Mehmed Emin Rauf Pasha stepped down from his office of Grand Vizier because of his failures in the current Balkan crisis. Koca Mustafa Reşid Paşa will be called back from his post as ambassador in Paris and as the former Vizier of Foreign Affairs will be appointed the new Sadrazam to start a new era of Tanzimat and reformation. Mehmed Emin Aali Pasha will be called back from his post as ambassador in London to aid as the new Vizier of Foreign Affairs.

In the name of 'Ala Hazrat-i-Aqdas-i-Hümayun (His Sacred and Imperial Majesty) Sultan ‘Abdü’l-Mecīd-i evvel, Padishah and Hünkar-i Khanedan-i Âl-i Osman.

EDIT: PS: New ambassadors will be sent, just don't know their names (yet).

[rickinator9]

Greece is very happy with the treaty. We wish to thank everybody who helped us in this war. May we liberate everyone from the Turk!

- Basileus Othon

[Greyblades]

Britain would like to see an actual map of the changes to the region this treaty's dictating, if only because there is quite a bit of contention in real life of the borders of the balkan states being mentioned.

Also on the new map: the area around the future Suez canal is British.

[Greyblades]

Hang on.

France has 35 million inhabitants and a tax income of about 124 million. The debt is 275 million. The army has about 600,000 men and the navy about 40 ships.
France was going through this last turn:


French Strike

While the French workers in the south are no longer 'revolutionary' as such their ports have been closed and shipping taken and a large part of the south has declared itself 'on strike'. Some civil disturbances have been reported and when the Foreign Legion has attempted to restore order barricades have been built. The leaders of the strike demand land redistribution, a Parliament and compensation for the losses of trade due to closed ports and some 'impressed' shipping. They are not anti King but anti his advisers who they think are making money at their expense.

Economics

It has been an unstable year for France in general. New taxes have decreased French exports (as they are now more expensive) and taxes on trade from non French colonies have cut imports (as they are now also more expensive). France is relying on it's domestic market to take up the slack but with shipping nearly extinct in the French Mediterranean and ports closed and the strike it has been unable to do so. The interest on debts has risen sharply since the news of the retreat from Homs was heard. In general France is regarded as a 'risky' investment.
How did France go from this to making more money than me in a turn? Having a bigger market doesn't mean that it can not only shrug off but grow from a year of being cut off from naval trade and having half its workers on strike. And what happened to my 10 million investments in the industry and rail companies in Britain if it's not affected my income from last turn? It worked out the last two times I did it.

[Franconicus]

I put the input of investments in industry and research very low. Sorry for this, but the change of host leas always to losses, tried to minimize them. There had been only little strikes in the south of France and they ended before the new year started. France made some good business last year.
England was affected by the lack of cotton. It has the biggest textile industry and depends on mass production. No cotton from Egypt and less and more expensive cotton from the USA is a problem.

I am amused to see that the big war ends as soon as real players take responsibility. Gives some hope for the world peace. However, I wonder where France and Egypt are going.

[Greyblades]

Bah, the whole point of putting 40 odd ships in the med was to make sure that the cotton kept flowing,

I am amused to see that the big war ends as soon as real players take responsibility. Gives some hope for the world peace. However, I wonder where France and Egypt are going.

Well should everyone agree to that peace treaty they should really have no reason to keep fighting.

[Franconicus]

Bah, the whole point of putting 40 odd ships in the med was to make sure that the cotton kept flowing,


Well should everyone agree to that peace treaty they should really have no reason to keep fighting.

:rolleyes:

[Greyblades]

:rolleyes:
Gonna have to explain the smilie there.

[Kival]

Also on the new map: the area around the future Suez canal is British.

Egypt has no right to sell imperial land!

[rickinator9]

Egypt has no right to sell imperial land!

Well then Sultan, get off your dicke Arsch and get that imperial land!

- Basileus Othon

[Greyblades]

Egypt has no right to sell imperial land!

Indeed? Well we were in the impression that Egypt and the ottomans were separate entities until about a week ago, an impression your predecessor gave.

Well, if you want to come to an agreement for the true ownership of disputed resources it seems to be a good time to take into account the assets you owe us.
Britain is going to want those ships, rifles and Cannons back, with this new peace treaty the terms of their lend lease have expired, also there's the costs of all the gunpowder and shot that we've given you that cant be recovered for obvious reasons, and the expenses for all the ships we deployed to defend the shipping in the east med, mostly your shipping if I'm not mistaken. The amount of fortification and development that has been applied already to the Suez we obviously want paying for, there not being any real way to repossess effort or architecture, plus the expenses the Suez garrison accumulated maintaining order to the Suez and Damietta.

The cost upon final count amount to about 50 million pounds, to be paid upfront, no credit.

Oh, and the amount paid for the use of the Suez we will want repaid, seeing as the people who received the funds were apparently under your jurisdiction it is up to you to refund us the 45 million. You could try to take it back from the Egyptians, though after two wars the amount that is likely to have been spent by the time you regain control of their coffers.

We expect the 50 million at the end of the year (in game) and 45 if/when you win your war.

Or you could allow our possession of the Suez to continue, you keep our lent weaponry+ ships, we can allow your debts be forgotten and we will allow you to take in credit the parts of the 45 million you do not reclaim from the Egyptians, plus the 25% of the travel fees to be collected from the upcoming Suez canal. assuming you do win.

[SwordsMaster]

The Kaiser is pleased with the triumph of the arms of the princes of Europe, and wishes to commemorate the german blood spilled to achieve such a momentous outcome.

- Minister of Foreign Affairs

Joseph von Radowitz is, from now on, Minister of Foreign affairs, and plenipotentiary negotiator towards the German Confederation. May his service aid all the Germans. Alexander von Schleinitz is ambassador to the courts of Bavaria, Baden, Hesse, and Frankfurt.
- Wilhelm IV

[Franconicus]

Gonna have to explain the smilie there.

I do not want to get involved into this discussion. I just thought that this applause about the peace treaty is a bit to hasty. I haven't heard anything from Egypt and France, which seem to be major participants in this war. And there seem to be some issues undiscussed, like the status of Cyprus, the French claims at Levante, the British claims at the Suez.

Besides this I am taken by surprise that the British announce that they supported the Ottoman so massively. Had't they agreed not to sopprt them?

I am looking forward to see how this will go.

[Greyblades]

Dude, shh. :P


Either way, I said I wouldn't support them I didn't say I wouldn't rent out British guns and ships on credit to be paid back when they were in the position to pay it/when I felt like demanding it.
Giving it for free is support, renting it for later payment is merely a business transaction.

Edit: Wait a minute, french claims at levante? That means the french were attacking the egyptians not as a part of the ottoman war effort but as their own war?

[Franconicus]

Well, I always had difficulties to understand the finesse of British diplomacy.

French invaded the Levant to support his allies and to free the Arabians from Ottoman slavery. :2thumbsup:

[The Stranger]

how do we figure out what all kinds of stuff costs? or how long it takes to travel from place a to b by means of c?

[Greyblades]

Well, I always had difficulties to understand the finesse of British diplomacy.

French invaded the Levant to support his allies and to free the Arabians from Ottoman slavery. :2thumbsup:

Interesting, that means that France either changed the agreed war goals of the alliance to include the Levant, which wasnt covered on their side of the agreement we made and making me not obligated to not interfere with that part of the conflict, or France started their own little war which my agreement of non involvement does not apply and I have no obligation to stay out of it. Either way it makes the diplomatic gymnastics I had to do, to keep the french from sinking what was left of the cotton trade without taking a side, pointless too.

Thank you, you've been a help.

[Peasant Phill]

Egypt has no right to sell imperial land!

The British don't own the Suez area. It's a lease.


I thought Crete was Egyptian!

It is as far as I know.

I'll give a IC speech corcerning my views on certain points later today.

[Greyblades]

The British don't own the Suez area. It's a lease.

Honestly bought and paid for, with expectations of paying for it's renewal in 100 years.

[The Stranger]

so its a lease with a long term...

[Franconicus]

like Hong Kong?

[The Stranger]

Hong Kong was not leased it was taken from us after the most unjust war ever fought by a strong nation against a weaker one.

[Greyblades]

Actually the island of lanatu, part of hong kong, was leased for 99 years
Franconius: Kinda, though I doubt that I'd let it go without at least attempts on a new lease, assuming by some miracle we reach the 1940's.

[Peasant Phill]

Honestly bought and paid for, with expectations of paying for it's renewal in 100 years.

I'll have to check but wasn't it for 50 years?

BTW where is Csargo?

[The Stranger]

Actually the island of lanatu, part of hong kong, was leased for 99 years
Franconius: Kinda, though I doubt that I'd let it go without at least attempts on a new lease, assuming by some miracle we reach the 1940's.

ooc: you dont have that yet, that arrangement wasnt made untill 50 years into the future.

[Greyblades]

I'll have to check but wasn't it for 50 years?

BTW where is Csargo?

OOC: I believe you are right with that one.
Edit: yep, 50. Was tempted to just take it at gunpoint at that price, but you know, that would have been helping France. :P

[Csargo]

I'll have to check but wasn't it for 50 years?

BTW where is Csargo?

I'm here, just trying to process all the information.

[Peasant Phill]

I'm here, just trying to process all the information.

I was waiting for a first IC statement from you before I made mine.

P.S. Franconicus I would still like a public confirmations that Crete is Egytian.

[Arjos]

In 1840, Egypt was forced by Palmerston to return Crete to direct Ottoman rule.


Egypt has entered the war with 25,000 men and are fighting the Turks. No major battle yet in 1843 but Turks are figuring out what to do.


The Ottoman Sultan and Mohammed Ali of Egypt, while the Concert were discussing the future in Frankfurt, signed a peace Treaty in February

Crete it's not egyptian.

[Greyblades]

Crete it's not egyptian.
While it might not be Egyptian officially it is occupied by Egyptian forces that removed the french ones a turn or two ago.

[Franconicus]

I fear Arjos is right, although the situation is a bit confusing. Crete belongs to the sultan, but I assume that the complete Egyptian fleet is there. Do not know who has claims on Cyprus (beside Greece and France), but it is definetly occupied by Egyptian soldiers.

[Kival]

Egypt anyway has to follow the peace treaty or it is violating his dutys as vassal.

[Greyblades]

Is the french ban of luxury imports still going on?

[Peasant Phill]

Egypt anyway has to follow the peace treaty or it is violating his dutys as vassal.

I'm not entirely sure I'm still a vassal in the strict sense of the word. Mohamed Ali did agree to support the Ottoman Empire but I don't think he was bound by anything more than his word. Beside I, as his son Ibrahim Ali, am not bound by my fathers promises.

[Franconicus]

Is the french ban of luxury imports still going on?


There has never been a ban on any kind of imports, just a general tax on the consume of any luxary good (imported or home produced). This was cancelled after one year because of a problems in the administration and replaced by a simple tax on land.
So as long as Napoleon does not change a thing, England can export as many luxaries as it likes.

Peasant Phill is right.The relationship between Ottoman Empire and Egypt is very complex. Titular, he is a vasall of the the Porte. Both sides were at war some years ago. Between the Sultan and his father there had been an agreement, that Mohamed Ali (not the boxer!) would get Palestine, Syria and Lebanon. Together with Egypt, these countries should be heritable. In return, Mohamed Ali promised to send troops to the defence of the Ottoman Empire.
Now some pre-conditions changed. First, Mohammed Ali is gone. Second, the war of the Ottomans against the Christians is over, though there are still French troops at Egypt. So there are several issues to solve:
1) Does the Sultan accept Ibrahim Pasha as heir of Egypt?
2) Does he also keep to the treaty and accept him as ruler over the Levant?
3) Does he accept that Mohammed Ali sold (or leased) land to the English?
4) Does Ibrahim feel tied to the treaty with the English at all?
5) Does anyone of both have the militaty power to defend their claims?
6) Would the Sultan support Egypt, if the war between Egypt and France would continue)

Another unclear point is the support of the English for Egypt and Ottoman. Greyblades sent me some info regarding Egypt, which I forwarded, but I only know that England sent weapons to the Sultan before the agreement of the Concert. What happened afterwards and which was the price for the help - I do not know.


Another open issue is the relationship between Egypt and China. Where do we start from. Before or after the first opium war? Maybe Greybaldes and the Stranger can discuss this.

[The Stranger]

i dont understand what you mean exactly, what special relationship do i have with egypt that it needs to be discussed? also i thought the year was 1847, that is 5 years after the first opium war, and i thought this was long passed and resolved? or am i understanding your question wrong?

[Peasant Phill]

i dont understand what you mean exactly, what special relationship do i have with egypt that it needs to be discussed? also i thought the year was 1847, that is 5 years after the first opium war, and i thought this was long passed and resolved? or am i understanding your question wrong?

I believe Franc meant England instead of Egypt.
Though we can still be BFF's if you want.:on_wink:

[The Stranger]

hehe clearly i prefer before :D there is no way that under my sound leadership China wouldve gotten into this debacle in the first place!

[The Stranger]

I believe Franc meant England instead of Egypt.
Though we can still be BFF's if you want.:on_wink:

ofcourse, you bring the shisha for tea today? I have some nice tobacco! we could also invite Greybaldes, maybe he can bring some opium...

[Franconicus]

Go on making chokes at my cost!
:sweatdrop: :whip:

[Peasant Phill]

Your Eminences,

You may have known my father, Mohamed Ali, as a great statesman. A man who led Egypt to its stature that it is now.
Some may also have known defeat at the hands of my armies. As I step into my father’s shoes as statesman, I aspire to continue the progress towards the great Egyptian nation my father had envisioned.

However, in order to do so, I may have to undo some works and deals of the great Mohamed Ali. My father was ill these last few months. It is entirely possible that some negotiators have taken advantage of the fragile mental state that had befallen the great Mohamed Ali. As such I don’t feel bound by promises made these last months.
I am, if nothing else, both realistic and accommodating. Everyone can reestablish talks and present their case to me. I’ll reconfirm past agreements if I deign them fair at the time they were made.

Furthermore, I like to stress that Egypt can be considered a separate entity from the Ottoman Empire. I do not deny the close bond history, religion and demography has posed on us. I intend to continue to act with this special bond in mind. I will NOT, however, let it endanger or curtail the progress to a greater Egyptian Nation.

On another note, I welcome the new peace. War has always been a high risk low pay-off affair. The Concert of Europe has, so far, been successful at keeping European soil free of the ravages of war.But let us not be ignorant to the fact that war itself has continued. Only the battlefield has shifted elsewere. The fight for influence, resources and land has continued outside of Europe relentlessly. My country is one of those places war had shifted to. As if directing your hunger and rivalries elsewhere is a solution for the powder keg that Europe still is. I assure you, only withholding from trying to trump one another will ensure lasting peace and prosperity.

With highest regards,
Ibrahim Ali
Khedive of Egypt
Protector of Crete and Cyprus

[Greyblades]

If it helps I found this trawling through my pms, it might help explain why the french strike happened:





Fran seems to like 'all the detail' (probably changed his mind now as his economy isn't doing too well)What do you mean by that presicely?

Well it's not hard to work out... He allowed the 'right to strike' for starters, then 'closed' the main ports in the south and took all the shipping so trade drops and alot of people can't make a living. He then raises new taxes on luxury goods (which he exports more of than imports) and on cheap goods from non French colonies... Strike they will!

Another open issue is the relationship between Egypt and China. Where do we start from. Before or after the first opium war? Maybe Greybaldes and the Stranger can discuss this.
Considering the historical opium war was started before my run on the game first began and I let it end historically without my input, I say after.

[The Stranger]

i think we need a second war to settle this

:P

nah im fine with after (i would steamroll everyone otherwise and it wouldnt be a fun game ;))

[Franconicus]

That strike thing wasn't a great deal. And he got me wrong with the tax on luxuries (not a customn fee!), so I dropped it.

[Franconicus]

Alright, gentlemen, I think the diplomatic phase is going well. I still need some answers from some players and I hope that France will finish the reading of all relevant documents soon.
So let's go to the next phase, orders for the next year. Is it o.k. to set the deadline to Januar 1st?

Your orders for the next year may include:

Title (English orders for 1847)

1) Budget: spendings for military, research, infrastructure etc as well as introduction of new taxes; some of them may be uncertain, so just guess
2) Policy: new laws, reforms etc.
3) investments: in railroads, chanels, etc.
4) research: like "10 million for the research of a long distance rocket able to cary 1 t of black powder from Belfast to New York)
5) army: new recruitments (keep in mind that it takes time!), organisation and deployment, orders and campaign (again it takes time for orders to travel and for armies o move, do not forget logistics)
6) navy: basiclly the same
7) the rest; spies, diplomacy etc.

The income I gave you is the income of last year (!), this can be changed by changes in taxation or in economy.

You would do me a favour if you keep to the order above.

So enjoy the holidays!

[The Stranger]

new recruitments > does that mean i will constantly have to recruit soldiers to keep my army at a certain strength? or if i say i want my army to be 100k then it will just be maintained at that strength and recruitment means more i want 100k more than i want to replace the 1k who died of flue on the march?

[Greyblades]

new recruitments > does that mean i will constantly have to recruit soldiers to keep my army at a certain strength? or if i say i want my army to be 100k then it will just be maintained at that strength and recruitment means more i want 100k more than i want to replace the 1k who died of flue on the march?

I think we should minimize the micromanagement. Reinforcement and resupply during peace time seems like something the lower members of government should be able to handle without our direct input.

[Franconicus]

GB is right. Recruitment means more that you have to tell if you want to enlarge (or reduce) your army. A different thing is if you loose big parts of your army in battle, so that you have to set up new divisions or corps.

[The Stranger]

ok, i prefer that too :P

[rickinator9]

Title (English orders for 1847)

1) Budget: spendings for military, research, infrastructure etc as well as introduction of new taxes; some of them may be uncertain, so just guess
2) Policy: new laws, reforms etc.
3) investments: in railroads, chanels, etc.
4) research: like "10 million for the research of a long distance rocket able to cary 1 t of black powder from Belfast to New York)
5) army: new recruitments (keep in mind that it takes time!), organisation and deployment, orders and campaign (again it takes time for orders to travel and for armies o move, do not forget logistics)
6) navy: basiclly the same
7) the rest; spies, diplomacy etc.

So is this for everyone or just for England?

[Kival]

You should of course use your countries name instead of england.

[The Stranger]

if anyone cannot or doesnt want to send diplomats to China, please send me a message so we can work something out.

[Arjos]

Russia welcomes the new Khedive of Egypt, hoping for him and the Sultan, to be able to define their relation.

But His Imperial Majesty, Czar Nikolai, wished to inform His Highness, Ibrahim Pasha, that Crete doesn't require his protection. Since by the Second Treaty of Edirne, it was granted to the Greek Kingdom of His Majesty, Basileus Othon.
We'd like for Egypt, and any other country, to respect the demilitarized waters, north of the island.

State Chancellor,
Aleksandr Gorchakov

[Greyblades]

Can we get a confirmation on this peace treaty please, I cant make any proper plans with such a point of divergance still unresolved.

[Kival]

Can we get a confirmation on this peace treaty please, I cant make any proper plans with such a point of divergance still unresolved.

Confirmation by who?

[Arjos]

It would seem the British are in De Nial :D

[Greyblades]

Confirmation by who?
France, or whoever we are waiting for before saying "war over!"

It would seem the British are in De Nial :D
..."Nested Interactive Array Language"?
You mean De-Nile?

[The Stranger]

The Emperor of China wishes everyone a "Melly Chlistmass".

[Greyblades]

Blarg.

Britain, spreader of the christmas traditions wishes you all a merry christmas, 'Blarp' and has got the post feast pains.

Oh god. My stomach's beating up my kidneys for being scabs, I shouldnt have made strikes actions legal. ow.

[Franconicus]

Can we get a confirmation on this peace treaty please, I cant make any proper plans with such a point of divergance still unresolved.

The situation is plain to see: Ottoman made peace with Russia, Austria and Prussia. Greece agrees. Egypt welcomes this treaty, whatever this means. France says nothing at all.

By the way, I received already order from to players :2thumbsup: , one sent me already an extension :dizzy2:

[The Stranger]

when is the deadline?

[Arjos]

when is the deadline?


So let's go to the next phase, orders for the next year. Is it o.k. to set the deadline to Januar 1st?

:bow:

[Greyblades]

Dont expect mine to be early, christmas has been kinda crazy, and I've still got new years! :party3:

[rickinator9]

Basileus Othon is now recruiting a bodyguard from all orphans. They will need to endure a certain Agoge before they can join though.

[Greyblades]

The situation is plain to see: Ottoman made peace with Russia, Austria and Prussia. Greece agrees. Egypt welcomes this treaty, whatever this means. France says nothing at all.

OK then,

Dear... whatever the leaders of france are calling themselves these days.

When Britain acquired the suez it was at the cost of 45 million Talers, it was also at the cost of becoming allies with Egypt once the "ottoman and christian alliance" war ended, it has now concluded and you are currently ravaging our ally. Declare peace with egypt and withdraw your troops immediately, failure will result in Britain ending your little crusade, sinking every french ship afloat and consigning your campaigning troops to a slow death of attrition a long way away from home.

Regards
Prime Minister of the United Kingdom
Robert Peel.

PS: Send the Pope our regards.

________


As for the rest of you, I have been putting up with your war long enough and have lost enough money that I am starting to think it would be cheaper in the long run to sink every ship in the Med than risk leaving you the capacity to start another, once this ceasefire is in effect any warships found firing so much as a funny look in the mediterannian will be sunk and the government billed for the munitions used to do it.

[rickinator9]

As for the rest of you, I have been putting up with your war long enough and have lost enough money that I am starting to think it would be cheaper in the long run to sink every ship in the Med than risk leaving you the capacity to start another, once this ceasefire is in effect any warships found firing so much as a funny look in the mediterannian will be sunk and the government billed for the munitions used to do it.

I think this 'Robert Peel' should be less arrogant and more polite in further messages. If I see a letter with such a funny message again, it will be promptly torn apart and the government billed for the effort used to do it.

~Basileus Othon

[Greyblades]

Dear Othon

It is only arrogance when your talk is disproportionate to your power, and try to remember who ensured you got that nice new land, it most assuredly wasn't gained through Austrian or Russian generosity.

...And I apologise if there was something in the message that insulted you, but getting the message across clearly is more important than bruised feelings.

Regards.
Robert Peel.

[The Stranger]

ROTFL LMAO. We no Ships in Med XD

[The Stranger]

imo the deadline of 1 jan is too soon :S can we do friday 4 jan?

[Franconicus]

Because of the long and slow line of communication between the Forbidden Town and the Centre of the World deadline shall be Friday 4th.

Hurry, friends. It looks as if the world is running into misery. Don't miss it!

[The Stranger]

:S its more that half the players arent really active.

[Franconicus]

That is a pain. Hope it will go better, if the holidays are over.

[SwordsMaster]

Apologies for long absence gents, I will also be unable to provide anything meaningful until the week of the 7th to 11th. Tough dates, and I'm on the road so little opportunity to devise strategy.

[Prince Cobra]

Orders of Austria will be on until 4th of January, maybe earlier. If somebody wishes to discuss some last thing with the Danube Monarchy, he is welcome... By the way, can we put the territorial sitituation on a map?

P.S. Sorry for the abseenteism.

[Franconicus]

I received orders from Greece, Austria, Russia and China.
Prussia and France promised to send this week.
What about the rest?

[Greyblades]

I was waiting on your PM and france's response to my ultimatum. Give me a day or so.

[Csargo]

I don't have a reply to it.

Sorry to everyone for not replying to them in a timely manner and for not being more active in the thread.

[Greyblades]

Well if you dont, I'll have to destroy you ability to wage war, unless you declare peace with Egypt my fleet will be ordered to destroy yours and make your egypt army starve.

[King Kurt]

Well if you dont, I'll have to destroy you ability to wage war, unless you declare peace with Egypt my fleet will be ordered to destroy yours and make your egypt army starve.

So good to see that the King Kurt softly softly diplomatic approach has been picked up by my heir to the British Empire!!

Greetings my fellow IHers - after over 6 months I thought it was time to look in and see what had happened. I found 5 PMs - my apologies for the non reply - if anybody feels the need to pick my brains, I will attempt to reply.More pleasingly, I found that my old friend, Franconius, has revived the COE and moved it on to just before the year of revolutions - interesting times indeed. Perhaps Franc I could join the game as Karl Marx - he was a frequent visitor to the Isle of Wight while he was writing the Communist manifesto.

For the moment, I will sit on the sidelines and observe - and occasionaly chuckle as the nations of Europe battle against the odds.

[Franconicus]

Great to see the "Hammer of the East" back home!!!!

USA left the game :no:

Still waiting for England, France, Prussia, Ottoman and Egypt to send orders. Hurry, gentlemen, I can hardly wait any longer :bounce:

[Greyblades]

I don't have a reply to it.

I kinda need at least some response, peace or war either way means an entirely different set of orders and it'll hold the game up even more if I have to do both.

[Franconicus]

Got orders from Prussia!!

Still waiting for England, France, Ottoman and Egypt to send orders. :whip:

Hurry, men, I think we all want the game to start!

[rickinator9]

I don't get how you can go 2 weeks over the deadline of the first turn(if we count this as a new game).

[Greyblades]

It's very easy when we require responses from absent players before making decisions.

[Franconicus]

I don't get how you can go 2 weeks over the deadline of the first turn(if we count this as a new game).


You are right. This is a very bad start. Csargo hasn't been in the forum for more than a week. Last time he promised me to send orders the next days. Kival and PP haven't been around for almost a week! Greyblades is around, but hasn't sent his orders. Therefore the four countries at war are missing. I cannot replace them by doing their job.!!

[Csargo]

I kinda need at least some response, peace or war either way means an entirely different set of orders and it'll hold the game up even more if I have to do both.

We're no longer at war.

Franconicus I was waiting for PP but I'll send my orders today.

[Greyblades]

We're no longer at war.

..? This is news to us, there's "almost 200,000" french troops making a mess of Egypt that seem to disagree and I see no "france agrees to peace" posts.

[Csargo]

..? This is news to us, there's "almost 200,000" french troops making a mess of Egypt that seem to disagree and I see no "france agrees to peace" posts.

Egypt and France have reached a peace agreement. So, we are no longer at war.

[Greyblades]

Egypt and France have reached a peace agreement. So, we are no longer at war.

Nice to finally be informed, where is this peace agreement?

[Franconicus]

So no war? Anyway, this gives me new opportunities :idea2:

So we are still waiting for UK, Egypt and Ottoman?

[Greyblades]

It would appear so.

I must say it is very irregular, I've heard of secret alliances and covert wars but secret peace treaties?

Wierd. Anyway, I'll get my orders in tonight.

Oh and if france needs any help getting it's troops out of egypt we are willing to lend the use of our transport ships, we expect french troops out of the area at the end of the turn.

I also repeat: anyone found trying to continue the naval war after peace is declared will recieve a bill for ordinance expended in their 'pacification'.

[Greyblades]

Orders are finally in. :sweatdrop:

[Kival]

Hi, i was at first in holidays (end of dezember), but the real problem was, that I was/am ill since then and have to finish my bachelor thesis atm. Before the 5th February I won't have time for this game again :(

[Franconicus]

Great to see you are alive! I hope you are fine now and good luck for your exams.

[The Stranger]

so how are we going to deal with that?
Kival, gl with your exams ïndeed

[Franconicus]

Am already working on the new chapter. Hope to release first things next week. You can do your diplomcy anyway!!

[Franconicus]

1847

January:

Napoleon, the former nephew of the great emperor, is elected as new president of France. High expectations are connected to this nomination. The former King leaves the country and lives from now on at the English exile.

The new Danish constitution comes into effect. From now on Schleswig and Holstein are part of the Danish realm. There a protests among the German population of Schleswig-Holstein.

The Russian government announces a peace treaty with the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire. The Porte gives up any claims on European territories except Istanbul. This declaration is unexpected and causes some irritation, but finally it causes jubilance all over Europe. With some delay, Austria, Greece and Prussia accept that treaty. It seems, though, that it was a diplomatic coup by the Russian Czar. There are parties all over Europe, especially in the freed territories. France and England do not make any statements.

The news of the peace inflames the finance markets. The Sues Channel Company stock price win three times his values within a couple of days. The company reports that it will need 30 millions more capital, but has no problem to get this on the market. Stock quotations of all English railroad, mining and producing companies raise.

The expectations of a new era of peace also reaches the stock markets at Amsterdam, Brussels, Paris, Berlin, Vienna and Petersburg, even if not in the same degree as at London.

The jubilance is decreased by the hunger crisis, which rules all over Europe, but with outmost brutality at Ireland. The English government tries to react by forbidding the export of food. However, it does nothing to increase the imports. But even this law goes too far in the eyes of some Manchester liberals.
At the same time the protests at Manchester continue. Police withdraws and mercenaries of plant owners begin to attack the workers with clubs and sabers. But this time, the workers are better prepared than the last time. They build barricades and defend themselves with stones. Soon the first shot bursts. In a bloody battle 40 men are killed and many more are wounded. Finally the government decides to stop this and sends a cavalry division to stop the riots. However, the workers are not willing to leave. Only after the government promised to pass new electoral laws with equal vote the workers agree to return to work.

Texas becomes part of the United states of America. Frictions about the new frontier between the USA and Mexico lead to an armed accident which causes a declaration of war by the Congress of the United States.


February:

The United States of America quickly recruit new soldiers and built up an army under the command of Winfield Scott.
At Manchester, a new party is found: the radical liberals. Their aim is a free and wealthy nation. They attack the government and blame it for being socialistic, corrupt and despotic.

China passes a law to restrict heroin trade.

Ten thousands demonstrate at Berlin against hunger and poverty.

The English spend several millions to lower the price of food at Iraland.

March:

An English paper, which refers to governmental sources, reports that the English government spent over 50 million talers to support Egypt and the Ottoman Empire in their war against the Holy Alliance. A speaker of the government tells, that the Empire did nothing that had not been in agreement with its international commitments.

There are anti-English protests at France, Prussia, Austria, Russia, Savoy and Sicily. French protesters demand sanctions against la perfide Albion.

East India Company expects decrease of profit for this year. It asks the government for help against the new Chinese laws.
Stock quotation of the East India Company is going down.

England starts to enlist new recruits.

Disbanded foreign volunteer regiments decide to go on pilgrimage to Jerusalem. Soon, 60,000 are heading south. After they pillaged Alexandretta, the other local governors decide to support them with free food .

April:

Algeria: There is a riot against the French occupiers. Under the leadership of Abd el-Kader French settlements and posts are burned down.

The English government passes a number of new laws. One of them introduces a equal votes to all who pay taxes. Therefore many workers and all unemployed still do not have the right to vote. This causes new protests in the industrial cities.
There is also a law which gives all colored subjects the right to get promoted in administration, army and navy. Several officers lay down their ranks and leave the army, because they cannot serve under this conditions any longer. The 1st admiral tries to mediate. He says: "Our captains were always recruited among the finest English families. This is the secret of the strength and success of the Royal Navy. And I will be damned if I have the intention to change this."
There will also free education for all children.

Arabia declares itself independent.

At the parliament there is a hard dispute between the government and the opposition. Even several members of the governmental party do not support the new course of the "communist" government.

Bad weather all over Europe makes it clear that there will be another bad harvest this year.

The English government spends money to feed the poorest in Ireland. Yet, many die. Ten thousands leave to find more luck in the United States of America.

There is a big victory celebration at Belgrade. The mob proclaims the free Kingdom of Serbia.

At Athens, there is a big national celebration. Speakers demand to reunite all Greek territories.


At China, the head of the Emperor's government makes a speech to prepare the people to a new era of Chinese supremacy. Western influence shall be pushed back. He also announces the building of a new railroad from Nanchang via Shanghai to Beijing.

May:
Tunis, Libya and Tripoli declare that they will no longer be part of the Ottoman Empire.

Moslem preachers at Sudan call all believers to free Egypt from all Western occupiers. They turn the jihad against the English possessions at the Sues and all their supporters.

The USA send convoy with food to support the suffering Irish people.

Spanish troops enter Portugal and end the upraise there. The conservative government and constitution is reinstalled.

Russia begins with the construction of the railroad Petersburg - Helsinki.

A man tries to assassinate Queen Victoria. Fortunately, the crime can be prevented and the man is arrested. The court finds out that he is insane.

The textile worker go on strike. Their goal is to set up a minimum wage so that every worker shall pay enough taxes to have the right to vote.

Four Russian divisions begin an invasion against rebellious Tartars.

At Crete, rebels take the fortress of Sfakia. Turkish patrols are attacked all across the island.

A Russian military mission under General Annenkov arrives at China.

A new railroad will be built to connect Paris, Brussels and Berlin.

Bavaria calls all European nations to help the reconstruction of Greece. Munich will send 1 million talers.

Austria announces to send weapons to equip and modernize the Greek army.

There is a celebration at Vienna to honor the victory against the Turks. The Austrian monarch announces the annexing of the occupied provinces on the Balkans. He gives himself the additional titles "Prince of Serbia" and "Duke of Kosovo and Austrian Macedonia". Several nationalistic politicians demand to "solve" the German issue, now.

Saxony makes a trade agreement with Vienna and joins the common market.

There is unrest at Beijing caused by the introduction of paper money. Merchants and workers refuse to take this new kind of "money".

June:

The Hungarian parliament protests against the new structure of the Austrian Empire. They impend to leave the realm if there will not be reforms to strengthen their autonomy.

Due to the ongoing textile crisis and the strikes several textile factories have to be closed. The railroad company of Manchester announces that it will make a deficit this year.

Mining worker join the strikes of the textile worker.

There is a big victory celebration at Petersburg. In this frame, Grand Duchess Olga Nikolaevna marries the Knyaz of Bulgaria and Grand Duchess Alexandra Nikolaevna marries the new King of Armenia.

The Russian Czar introduces a new constitution, transforming his empire into a Federal Empire.
Hamburg-Amerikanische Packetfahrt-Actien-Gesellschaft and the Ocean Steam Navigation Company start regular service between the USA and Prussia.

Siam and China sign a military pact.

California declares itself independent.

There is still no statement of France regarding the war in the east. The English government passes an ultimatum. It declares that England is an ally of Egypt and that it will attack any ship in the Mediterranean Sea if it has hostile intentions.
The English foreign minister retires. Queen Victoria expresses her concerns about political situation.
This, of course, causes new protests in France. Most of the French people see this as a declaration of war and the papers demand that the president orders the navy to attack the British Med.Squad: "Revanche pour Beirut! Revanche pour Alexandria!" However, Napoleon stays quiet.

There are riots at Sicily. The British position ends the hope of the people that there will be peace after an Egyptian defeat. Two English ships in the harbor of Palermo catch fire. Policemen, trying to fight the fire are attacked by the crowd. Protestors soon take control of the city. The King of the Two Sicilies is forced to withdraw. Protests reach Naples and spread soon further north.

All over Europe, papers report of the threat of a new war between England and France. The stock market at London breaks down, textile and railroad stocks loose incredibly. Many men of the middle class lost all of their fortune within months. Only some stocks like steel and ship yards are stable.

At Paris, the situation is similar. However, due to the share held by the states, the railroad shares do not fall so much.
Belgium and Luxembourg make a joint statement, declaring that they are determined to fulfill their commitments and will support France in case of war.

The Netherlands declare, that being a French ally, they ask both sides to solve the conflict peacefully. Spain makes a similar announcement.


July:
Napoleon declares that the war against Egypt has come to an end and that France will retreat his troops. In return Egypt gave France favorable conditions for the cotton trade.

At Paris, more than 50,000 protest against this new peace. They demand to declare war against England.
England sends military advisors and weapons to China.

There is an article in a London newspaper arguing that questioning the rights of the noble men also includes questioning the rights of the Royal Family and is certainly a case of high treason.

At Vietnam, three French missionaries are murdered. The church asks the French parliament for support and protection of the mission at Far East.

US forces win the battle of Monterey.

Tartar rebels bow to the Russian Czar.

Russia annexes the peninsula of Sakhalin.

The borders to Persia are still closed.

The Emir of Bukhara besieges the city of Khiva.

The English War Minister meets with the leaders of the Royal Navy and the Army. There seems to be an agreement, how the promotion shall be handled in the future.

August:
French troops return from the Egyptian front. They are welcomed by ten thousands. The arrival turns into protests against England.

Sardinian troops with their Prince also return home, welcomed by ten thousands Italians.
Newspaper report that France tests a new steam driven battleship in the Mediterranean Sea.

September:
The French General Bugeaud claims, that Egypt would have been defeated even in the first war of war, if the English would not supported it massively. He also argues, that victory had been close and inevitable, when Napoleon made peace and called the troops home.

1,000 German radical democrats meet at Offenbach, Baden, to demand a constitution similar to the US constitution.

October:
Heppenheimer meeting: parliamentarians from all over Germany meet and demand the creation of a German national state, including Austria and guaranteeing human rights.

The French General Bugeau, veteran of the Near East Campaign, announces that he is going to candidate as President next year.

November:
The Russian Alaska expedition returns home.


December:

Iowa joins the United States of America.

Mexican defense collapses.

The President of the United States holds a speech where he demands the west for the United States. To the English government he says: "Fifty-Four Forty or Fight!"

German citizens of Schleswig-Holstein assault the barracks. Many soldiers join them. The rebels prepare themselves for defense and ask all German states for support.

Communist Manifest is released. 




This is it. I am going to send you personal info as soon as possible!

[Greyblades]

I find myself getting constantly bitten because I didn't think of things that seem obvious in retrospect or otherwise dont think of.

[The Stranger]

we want more months :D

[Franconicus]

Your wish is my command!

[Arjos]

I'm loving these econo-political reports, Franc ^^
It's nice to read about the people's feelings...

Just a question for map drawing purposes, the self-declared Arab state, does it incorporate the Red Sea coast aswell?

[Franconicus]

No!

[SwordsMaster]

Why are them prussians protesting? They just got healthcare, and education!

[Greyblades]

Tell me about it!

There are riots at Sicily. The British position ends the hope of the people that there will be peace after an Egyptian defeat. Two English ships in the harbor of Palermo catch fire. Policemen, trying to fight the fire are attacked by the crowd. Protestors soon take control of the city. The King of the Two Sicilies is forced to withdraw. Protests reach Naples and spread soon further north.Address to people of europe fearing more war IE the press: "The french invasion of Egypt is now redundant, the war is won yet French troops are still there long after peace was declared, still raping and pillaging the egyptians. Britain has vested interests in egypt being peaceful and ignoring it would be potentially worse in the long run for us than war, Britain most dearly desires a peaceful resolution but our continued requests for parley have gone unanswered and a ultimatum was the only recourse left. If you really wish to see an end to the threat of conflict; protest the French government's continued reluctance to so much as acknowledge our concerns."


All over Europe, papers report of the threat of a new war between England and France. The stock market at London breaks down, textile and railroad stocks loose incredibly. Many men of the middle class lost all of their fortune within months. Only some stocks like steel and ship yards are stable.

At Paris, the situation is similar. However, due to the share held by the states, the railroad shares do not fall so much.
Belgium and Luxembourg make a joint statement, declaring that they are determined to fulfill their commitments and will support France in case of war....I spent 15 million a turn investing in my economy, specfically my railroads, what did france do that gave them a benefit that I didnt get?


There is also a law which gives all colored subjects the right to get promoted in administration, army and navy. Several officers lay down their ranks and leave the army, because they cannot serve under this conditions any longer. The 1st admiral tries to mediate. He says: "Our captains were always recruited among the finest English families. This is the secret of the strength and success of the Royal Navy. And I will be damned if I have the intention to change this."Can I get a rundown of what problems they say they have with it? I kinda would like to address it before the turn ends.

[Greyblades]

Probably should have done this earlier but...

June 18th, anouncement from parliament

The british government officially extends an invitation to the new government of France to discuss the situation in Egypt and ensure the continuation of this newfound peace. We also officially apologise for being too forceful in previous demands, we now realise that such demands were unneccissary and more likely to extend instead of expedite matters and spread feelings of resentment. We hope that the government of France will accept our apology and meet with us on this matter.

As for the issue of the new regulations of advancement of those of coloured status it is felt that the admiralty is under the impression that we wish to undermine those Englishmen who we owe so much of our security to, not so, we place no quota or obligation upon the admiralty or millitary to recruit or promote officers of inferior quality but to open the way for those who are not fortunate enough to be born anglo saxon and whose ability and loyalty is so exemplary that to deny them higher opportunity would be to Britain's detriment. We have no new expectations of the armed forces and expect them to maintain a high level of quality, we only wish to provide the power should such be needed.

HM Government

[Franconicus]

This is my view on 19th century English society:

You have basically three social classes.

Bottom up, let’s begin with workers, small farmers, artisans and unemployed. They are the losers of the industrial revolution. Machines significantly worsened their working conditions and their incomes. As long as they are able to work and have a job, they work all day long trying to make a living. Sometimes they fail. They have no share of the growth of the nation, neither of the growing industrial production nor of the colonies. If they lose their jobs, get ill or old, they may lose the base of their existence. Chances to rise into another class are marginal. These workers do care little about patriotism and politics, as they have no time for this. The nation and the government is something far away, and something you cannot expect any good to come from. Workers do not have access to papers. They do not have a voice. With the strikes, this may change. Workers may become more aware of their situation and unions may win more supporters and more influence. Of course, workers would not only try to get their share of the industrial production, but would also try to stop or at least slow down the change. They also demand work safety and social security. Moderate leaders will try to achieve this by a democratic system, where the workers can influence the policy, because they are the biggest class by numbers. More radicals do not trust in democratic changes. They aim to change the constitution and the social system by violence.

Next, middle class. Due to their education and their money they these people are the winners of the industrial revolution. They see life as a fight man against man, where the strongest earns to get it all. They are patriots and fell that they are the backbone of the nation. Their main goal is to make the step into the first class, their nightmare is to fall into the working class. Most of them prefer a radical liberalism, which they see as human right. The government should keep out of the economy. Public funding is thievery of taxes. So is social support. If workers die from hunger, than it is because of a natural law. All the middle class wants is that the government protects their freedom and safety (personal and of their property). They would like to see more transparence between the middle class and aristocracy.
The middle class controls most of the press and the House of Commons. Should the government not be able to protect them and their properties, they may organize themselves.

Finally, the aristocracy. England is a monarchy and the aristocrats are the most valuable part of society. Noble men led the country, from the times of William the Conqueror to the Napoleonic Wars. They earned their privileges through the centuries. The new times are confusing, as there are many changes. But the aristocracy guarantees stability and continuity. It holds the leading positions of the government, administration, army and navy. Giving these positions only to the noble men is the concept that made England the leading country in the world. The opposite concept would be egalitee, which the English fought in the wars against the French republic and empire. Successfully, of course, due to the supreme leadership of the aristocratic nation. The noble men look at the wealth gaining middle class with distrust. Some of these middle class men may be allowed to rise to the aristocracy, but in general the traditional monopole of the upper class has to be untouched.
Aristocracy controls the House of Lords, some papers, the administration and the armed forces.

[Greyblades]

Ah... I think I went a little too Liberal, bother.

[The Stranger]

hmpf... heroine?

[Greyblades]

If wikipedia is to be believed heroin is produced from opium.




...through techniques not developed before 1874.

[Franconicus]

so there is a difference between opium and heroin? I gotta check this! :book2:

The year is complete now. I am going to send you personal details as soon as possible (may take a week or so). Still waiting for Kival to send his orders!!

[The Stranger]

China is outraged by the Russian annexation of 库页/Kuye (Sakhalin). Kuye is our heritage, from back in time when the great Khans roamed the steppe and boasted fear into all mortal hearts! To annex this island without even any diplomatic token to the rightful owners of Kuye is despicable. We call General Annenkov to the court to explain this situation immediately.

[Franconicus]

Japan is outraged by the Russian annexation of Sakhalin, which is Japanese heritage, from back in time when the great Khans roamed the steppe and boasted fear into all mortal hearts! To annex this island without even any diplomatic token to the rightful owners is despicable. Japan will freeze al agreements, until there is an explaination from Russia.

[The Stranger]

China is outraged that Japan claims to have any heritage of the great Khans. China threatens to throw a nuclear bomb on Tokyo unless they decide to alter their previous statement.

(this is a joke ofcourse, OOC)

[Greyblades]

The President of the United States holds a speech where he demands the west for the United States. To the English government he says: "Fifty-Four Forty or Fight!"
The British government reply: "It is against current british policy to acknowledge unbased nationalistic rhetoric as a negociation point. We find the current american government too likely to abuse and misuse the land and it's natives at this time to entertain the idea of american soverignty.

We also implore the United States to end thier practice of owning slaves and thier particularly poor treatment of the native americans, such practices are a black mark on a nation and intolerable for one who would call themselves civilized in this age."

[Prince Cobra]

Franc, (als du Deutscher bist) ist es moeglich den Bericht in Deutsch an mich zu senden? Ich will mein Deutsch ueben... Und glaube ich, dass mein Spiel mehr realistisch sein wird. Danke schoen! ;)

P.S. Du hast auch ueber de Oesterreichische Besetzung von Krakow vergessen.

(Sorry guys, that's coded message ~:D ( tip: use google translate )

...Vienna is currently studying the complicated situation in Europe and will make an announcement soon. If in the meantime, there is somethin you wish to discuss with Prince von Metternich, please be free to do so via your ambassadors in Vienna.

[Arjos]

Neither the Tokugawa Bakufu nor Emperor Daoguang, possess rights to the ownership of the Sakhalin Island. If the Zijin Cheng mentions a succession from the Great Khans, then the Palace must've forgotten how the Great Qing are manchurians, who claimed the Tiānmìng. That right exdents over chinese lands, Russians are as much descendants of the mongol Uls as the Manchu are. The people of Sakhalin are joining the Federal Russian Empire and will represent its citizens in the Federal Assembly. They are free and legislating over themselves, His Imperial Majesty, Czar Nikolai, hopes that this diplomatic mishap will be resolved, but Russia has no intention of respecting reduntant claims and rights, other than the local people's of Sakhalin.

State Chancellor,
Aleksandr Gorchakov

[Arjos]

BTW here's the map as of 1847 ^^

https://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9581/coeworld.png

[Greyblades]

Awesome work! Odd, the hudson bay company should have started to colonise the unclaimed western americas by now.

[Arjos]

Argh, yes, knew I missed something, thanks for pointing it out: all fixed now :)

[The Stranger]

Neither the Tokugawa Bakufu nor Emperor Daoguang, possess rights to the ownership of the Sakhalin Island. If the Zijin Cheng mentions a succession from the Great Khans, then the Palace must've forgotten how the Great Qing are manchurians, who claimed the Tiānmìng. That right exdents over chinese lands, Russians are as much descendants of the mongol Uls as the Manchu are. The people of Sakhalin are joining the Federal Russian Empire and will represent its citizens in the Federal Assembly. They are free and legislating over themselves, His Imperial Majesty, Czar Nikolai, hopes that this diplomatic mishap will be resolved, but Russia has no intention of respecting reduntant claims and rights, other than the local people's of Sakhalin.

State Chancellor,
Aleksandr Gorchakov

Russia has no claim to Kuye at all, if anything Kuye is part of the Chinese heritage and otherwise they are a free people unlawfully subdued by the Russian usurperer and we shall defend their freedom. If the Czar, who so insultingly claims to be the descendant of the great Genghis Khan, will not respect this then our nations will be in state of conflict. However this is not our wish, therefor we call upon the Russian ambassador, General Annenkov, to meet at the imperial chambers in the Forbidden City, for a meeting in which we hope to resolve this problem.

[Greyblades]

Argh, yes, knew I missed something, thanks for pointing it out: all fixed now :)

We didnt restrict ourselves to the historical borders, we are currently taking as much of the unclaimed area as possible, that's why the americans are getting jumpy.


I'm rather confused as to why they are risking annoying me when they are already embroiled in a war in mexico, didn't they see what british support did for the ottoman war effort?

[Arjos]

If that is the case, as the third party involved in the Anglo-Russian Convention of 1825, any violation of the agreed latitude by the British, will be recognized as a breach of contract and will be taken as an act of war.

State Chancellor,
Aleksandr Gorchakov

[Franconicus]

We didnt restrict ourselves to the historical borders, we are currently taking as much of the unclaimed area as possible, that's why the americans are getting jumpy.


I'm rather confused as to why they are risking annoying me when they are already embroiled in a war in mexico, didn't they see what british support did for the ottoman war effort?

They did see thatthey defeated the British in the last war - and that the Lodon got Canada back somehow!

[Greyblades]

Indeed the economic slump of 1840, engineered by my predecessor no doubt, combined with threats to cut off thier cotton industry from thier buyers made america relent any gains they had made, the score still has to be settled but it is not as one sided as previous.

If that is the case, as the third party involved in the Anglo-Russian Convention of 1825, any violation of the agreed latitude by the British, will be recognized as a breach of contract and will be taken as an act of war.

State Chancellor,
Aleksandr Gorchakov
Alas, In this timeline Britain was actually at war with america at the very time when that treaty would have been made, so as far as I am concerned there is no treaty to break, and besides, I doubt the russian tzar would have wanted a repeat of the casualties of the ottoman campaign with the seemingly upcoming ruso-sino wars.

Funnily enough the lack of treaty also hase a nice effect of making the americans claims on the land somewhat diminished aswell.

[Arjos]

OoC: The historical timeline was adopted with SoFarSoGood (that's why you have Canada again) and has been used since, to make it easier for all the new players...

[Greyblades]

OOC: well ultimately it is down to Franconius, I would prefer that the old guard's generation wouldn't be retconned out of existence entirely, but I cant help but feel that if the treaty really restricted me to such extent there wouldn't be any border disputes in real history.

[Kival]

So I finished my bachelor thesis and will try to come back into this here. I may need a few days though.

[Greyblades]

Franconius?

[Franconicus]

Greyblades?

[Greyblades]

Oh good, worried for a moment there you went the way of SFSG.

[Franconicus]

SFSG may disappear,, popes may retire ...

[Greyblades]

Announcement:

To facilitate the bettering of relations with China, joint ownership of the British district of Hong Kong has been declared, both nations flags will be raised above the district and a representative of the chinese Emperor and British Crown will attend future local government meetings. This will not cause any real changes for the local laws currently being used but Britain hopes that it will be seen as a good will gesture to accompany a request of britain to negiociate over the matter of thier new opium laws.

HM Government.

[The Stranger]

We graciously accept this well intended gesture and we invite the British Ambassador to discuss terms for our mutual benefit in the future.

Chinese Emperor

[Franconicus]

I am still waiting for Kival to finish this round.
My mailbox is filled and I fear that I will not have much time next week. I promise to do my best.

Do not hesitate to go on with your diplomacy!

[Greyblades]

OOC: Hm... how to conduct diplomacy when I have no idea what everyone else thinks is worth talking about...

..."Hey France, that's a nice colonial empire you got there, shame if something was to happen to it."

Yeah, that works.

[The Stranger]

the game is indeed kind of silent :S

[rickinator9]

How about we all go conquer the expansionist revolutionaries against whom the british were too weak to even defeat militias?

~ Basileus Othon

[Greyblades]

OOC: Eh, no thanks letting you lot take that chestnut would mean I'd have to share the land gained, or worse yet not get a piece at all.

[Franconicus]

Well, one thing I still owe you is an answer about the north america agreement. Well, obviously, there is none. I suggest to discuss the future borders between the US, GB and Russia. I guess Mexico is out of the game.

There is still the affair about Denmark. And do not forget that next year is 1848 - historically the year of revolutions. Ireland, England, Hungary, the Balkans.

And remember the old wisdom "after war make alliances"

[The Stranger]

i hope you do not mean that usa gets ALL of mexico =_=

[rickinator9]

I hope you mean the US gets none of Mexico. They have no claim to any of Mexico's lands.

~ Basileus Othon

[Greyblades]

They're fighting over Texas and the rebellion in California means they'll end up taking the historical USA territory if we do nothing.

[Arjos]

Well, one thing I still owe you is an answer about the north america agreement.

As far as Sankt-Peterburg is concerned, the matter was (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Saint_Petersburg_(1825)) resolved and Russia will make sure it is respected.

[Greyblades]

I dont think the Alaskan border was ever under dispute in this game.

[Kival]

I should be able to write my orders until friday. Not sure if i can manage it earlier.

[Arjos]

I dont think the Alaskan border was ever under dispute in this game.

Do I really need (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-American_Treaty_of_1824) to link all the treaties (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adams%E2%80%93On%C3%ADs_Treaty), leading to the Anglo-Russian Convention?

[Greyblades]

...What has any of that got to do with British claims on the Oregon territories?

[Arjos]

Nothing, in as much Britain doesn't have any, while the US were granted the rights by the Spanish Crown...

[Greyblades]

Nothing, in as much Britain doesn't have any, while the US were granted the rights by the Spanish Crown...

...so? The Spanish crown's claims are just as flimsy as mine, transferring theirs to the USA means as much as Greece's.

[Arjos]

The Vicar of God, granted them to Spain.

So today and me as myself, sure I agree. Then and in the game, completely different picture.

[Greyblades]

The policy of Great Britain is and has always been that the vicar of god has no claim to anything but his chair.

[Arjos]

Looking at the dates, that papal bull, was before the Act of Supremacy. Also I'm not entirely sure, but the latter should all come down to ecclesiastical matters only and not legal.
In any case, President Polk answered "Fifty-Four Forty or Fight!" and Russia recognizes the US rightful claims.

[Greyblades]

OOC: Aww, cute, he thinks he matters. He's also a bit dense if he thinks he can intimidate me while his armies are a year away from finishing the Mexican war

[Greyblades]

All right gents, I'm once again faced with an interesting situation, I want to set a minimum wage so my guys don't starve as easily over the coming years of famine, something you guys might also be thinking about, unfortunately with that comes the usual "business owners will go elswhere in search of cheap labour" problem everyone will be dealing with over the next few decades.

Now I dont want to lose jobs or industrial expertise to more profitable american/chinese/whoever's labour any more than you do so we can do what everyone else did when they finally caved to minimum wage historically: start giving tax cuts and other goodies to businessmen so they'll find it as profitable in our nation as anyone else's, or we could go with an idea that has been kicking about in my head the last few days: every player nation agrees to a world wide minimum wage and preassure the rest of the world into adopting it, say require them to be baned from doing buisness with us if they dont or something, with nowhere to get cheaper labour in places without a minimum wage we could improve our working class' quality of life (subsiquently making them less likely to rebel) and not have to worry about our middle classes outsourcing labour.

Thoughts?

[SwordsMaster]

Or, you know, it could do what it historically did, and push up inflation.


All right gents, I'm once again faced with an interesting situation, I want to set a minimum wage so my guys don't starve as easily over the coming years of famine, something you guys might also be thinking about, unfortunately with that comes the usual "business owners will go elswhere in search of cheap labour" problem everyone will be dealing with over the next few decades.

Now I dont want to lose jobs or industrial expertise to more profitable american/chinese/whoever's labour any more than you do so we can do what everyone else did when they finally caved to minimum wage historically: start giving tax cuts and other goodies to businessmen so they'll find it as profitable in our nation as anyone else's, or we could go with an idea that has been kicking about in my head the last few days: every player nation agrees to a world wide minimum wage and preassure the rest of the world into adopting it, say require them to be baned from doing buisness with us if they dont or something, with nowhere to get cheaper labour in places without a minimum wage we could improve our working class' quality of life (subsiquently making them less likely to rebel) and not have to worry about our middle classes outsourcing labour.

Thoughts?

[Greyblades]

Please explain why that would be better, historically we are still dealing with this problem with no success due to said non minimum wage nations being uncooperative.

[Franconicus]

Declaration of the President of the United States of America:

The occasion has been judged proper for asserting, as a principle in which the rights and interests of the United States are involved, that the American continents, by the free and independent condition which they have assumed and maintain, are henceforth not to be considered as subjects for future colonization by any European powers.

We owe it, therefore, to candor and to the amicable relations existing between the United States and those powers to declare that we should consider any attempt on their part to extend their system to any portion of this hemisphere as dangerous to our peace and safety. With the existing colonies or dependencies of any European power we have not interfered and shall not interfere. But with the Governments who have declared their independence and maintained it, and whose independence we have, on great consideration and on just principles, acknowledged, we could not view any interposition for the purpose of oppressing them, or controlling in any other manner their destiny, by any European power in any other light than as the manifestation of an unfriendly disposition toward the United States.



Interview of James Polk:

We are taken by surprise and alienated by the latest announcings from Europe. Although we do not intend to interfere or comment the internal affairs of any European country, we must declare that neither our nor any other government of the United States of America will ever have the intention to support any communist ideas. We declare that we will neither introduce something similar as a minimum wage for workers nor will agree to such an international treaty.
We will go on offering workers and businessmen endless opportunities.

[Greyblades]

...dang it, I must remember to state when my posts are supposed to only go to the player countries.

Also polk needs to update his definition of communism.

[The Stranger]

OOC: eh... were in 1847 there is no such thing as communism yet =_= marx just posted (yes posted, like on an online forum XD) his manifest but it is hardly something known to the great public i guess, nor seen as a threat to a nations such as 'Merica!

[Franconicus]

The United States of America comdemn each kind of socialism. Of course the United States Government knows everything about this socalled Communist Manifest. We will fight it, as it is in clear contrast to our idea of freedom, which we believe is given by God. Of course we know that other countries have governments which do not share the idea of freedom and these may be more attracked by these strange new ideas.

[Greyblades]

Freedom of a slave state. America jumped forward 70 years ago in the field of "freedom" and then stagnated as the rest of the world surpassed them to the point where the "tyranny" they rebelled against became more liberated than the "land of the free".

OOC: You'd think he'd be going on at me more for giving the vote to women and coloureds who can pay the bills than percieved communism.

[Franconicus]

Polk:

I am taken by surprise by the harsh words from the UK. Although there are many issues we have different opinions the government of the United States of America would not comment the internal affairs of a foreign country.

[Greyblades]

When a man realizes he has done a wrong he must endeavor to reverse as much damage he has caused in his unenlightened state as he can. Britain as a whole accepted that slavery is wrong 30 years ago and we must endeavor to right that wrong. If in the process of righting the largest blot on our record we find ourselves unable or unwilling to use direct power and have to resort to shaming the United states with harsh words into rectifying those wrongs then so be it.

Slavery's proliferation was our sin, but its continued practice is yours, do not lecture us about freedom when you continue to deny it to your fellow countrymen.

Peel.

[Franconicus]

England is talking about freeing slaves, and while they are saying this they are using violence to increase their colonies. I wonder what the Indians say about this. Or the people in south Africa. Or the people on the Sinai. Or the people of Hong Kong. Or the people of Ireland.

We know pretty well that the the English Queen is currently trying to increase her territories in Northern America, to lead more people into slavery. We tell her, if you want to stop slavery, free the people in your colonies!

[Greyblades]

England is talking about freeing slaves, and while they are saying this they are using violence to increase their colonies. I wonder what the Indians say about this. Or the people in south Africa. Or the people on the Sinai. Or the people of Hong Kong. Or the people of Ireland.
Presumably the same as any nation taken over by another country, "same routine different flag, at least these ones dont rape our women, put our men in chains and force us to work for no pay". African americans deserve the same.


We know pretty well that the the English Queen is currently trying to increase her territories in Northern America, to lead more people into slavery. We tell her, if you want to stop slavery, free the people in your colonies!
The people in our colonies are paid for thier work, they aren't shackled, sold, beaten, raped, bred for physical attributes, the law doesnt allow us to kill them on a whim, if they wish to move around they can and if they commit a crime we actually allow them the protecion and judgment of the law. We can say that for every man and woman in our realm not in prison, can you say the same for yours?

[Greyblades]

Um... hello? Please tell me that im not the only one still here

[rickinator9]

Um... hello? Please tell me that im not the only one still here

I am. But then again, I submitted my orders on the 11th of february, so I don't have that much to say. I don't get how some people can't even submit their orders within two weeks.

[SwordsMaster]

Hi lads,

I'll be honest - I'm losing interest. Having 1 month or more between turns is removing all sense of temporal continuity, or decision making. To be blunt - I feel this game is too complex to be handled by 1 person. I feel like different people should be in charge of combat, diplomacy on different continents, etc, and that level of complexity is unattainable for a forum game. Not that franc, or anyone else are not doing a good job, but i feel the game has grown too large for the level of responsiveness and information that most players are looking for.

So I will play along this turn, but it will be my last.

[Greyblades]

I am. But then again, I submitted my orders on the 11th of february, so I don't have that much to say. I don't get how some people can't even submit their orders within two weeks.
I think we were waiting for the guys who have turned out to have quit without telling us.

[The Stranger]

well i havent submitted my orders yet, if this is the 2nd round of orders but im still waiting for important pieces of info... and i cant seem to get a hold of anyone but greyblades :S

im sad to say but i kinda agree with swordsmaster, tho im not ready to give up on it yet.

[Arjos]

Since major players already left and more are going to, I don't see the point in continuing...

Thank you for the ride everyone ^^

[Kival]

Sorry everyone I had to leave the game, because I couldn't find back into it after my pause. I told it Franconicus some time ago but missed his question to reconsider. Sorry about that, it wasn't meant to be this time from my side.

[The Stranger]

Since major players already left and more are going to, I don't see the point in continuing...

Thank you for the ride everyone ^^

isnt there a way to salvage? im willing to become one of the major factions in europe.

[Arjos]

isnt there a way to salvage? im willing to become one of the major factions in europe.

Imo a global scenario is too large:

We lost Egypt and the Ottomans, the whole Islamic World is NPC.
The US have become NPC aswell.

We'll be losing Prussia and if you replace it, Asia will be fully NPCed too.
Also the sentiment seems widespread, so probably more people will leave...

[Kival]

Ya, maybe it was a better solution when the game was focused on Europe.

[Greyblades]

I think the problem is that the entirety of central europe's powers were pretty much silent. When was the last time Prussia, Austria and France said anything in character in this game about... well anything? I mean Great Britain and Russia were the only Euros talking regularly and they are colonial powers with more interests in asia and america to argue with eachother over than europe. Without someone to anchor us to Europe the intended focus point of the game got sidelined. Basically, I think we need more talkative germans in this game.

As for me, I think this game is amazing and I dont want it to end here, We resurrected an awesome game and it seems undignified to end something with this much love and effort put into it this way.

[SwordsMaster]

I think the problem is that the entirety of central europe's powers were pretty much silent. When was the last time Prussia, Austria and France said anything in character in this game about... well anything? I mean Great Britain and Russia were the only Euros talking regularly and they are colonial powers with more interests in asia and america to argue with eachother over than europe. Without someone to anchor us to Europe the intended focus point of the game got sidelined. Basically, I think we need more talkative germans in this game.

As for me, I think this game is amazing and I dont want it to end here, We resurrected an awesome game and it seems undignified to end something with this much love and effort put into it this way.

Part of the problem is there are too many germans, and whenever I pose a question to the NPC germans it takes sometimes weeks for me to get a response, if I even get one. Which is what brings me to say that with so many majors in the game, one person is not enough to keep track of all the mini-diplomacies.

I agree it is a shame to let it die. I would suggest a more focused effort, however. Whether it is a Europe/Rest of the World breakdown, or something else, I believe the thing has just grown too big and complex for one person.

[Franconicus]

I agree with you all, this just does not work. So far as I can judge there were only two really active players: England and China. There had to be at least five.

If I understand you right, an interactive game should be limited to a smaller area, faster, with less diplomacy and flexible to changing number of players and time to spend. Right?

Well we had something like this before. I have to think!!

P.S.: Let's end the old game officially.

[SwordsMaster]

I agree with you all, this just does not work. So far as I can judge there were only two really active players: England and China. There had to be at least five.

If I understand you right, an interactive game should be limited to a smaller area, faster, with less diplomacy and flexible to changing number of players and time to spend. Right?

Well we had something like this before. I have to think!!

P.S.: Let's end the old game officially.

IMO, the problem is not so much that there is too much diplomacy between the players - not sure about others but Prussia has barely been approached diplomatically. A smaller area would definitely be better - less countries concerned both from the NPC perspective and also to force the players to interact - when you share borders you must talk to your neighbours.

Responsiveness is definitely a big one, both from other players and NPCs for all my clever attempts at political/economic manoeuvring, if i never get answers from minor potential allies/enemies, they never come to fruition.

[Kival]

I agree with you all, this just does not work. So far as I can judge there were only two really active players: England and China. There had to be at least five.

If I understand you right, an interactive game should be limited to a smaller area, faster, with less diplomacy and flexible to changing number of players and time to spend. Right?

Well we had something like this before. I have to think!!

P.S.: Let's end the old game officially.

Don't forget the Russians but despite that I don't think less diplomacy between players is the right way. A smaller Core-Area might clearly help though.

[Franconicus]

Currently we can expect to have three, maybe four permanent players and a maybe two or three which may like to join from time to time.
So let's discuss what we can do with it.

We could select a small, limited area with only four factions and no non player factions. Let's say we take an Ancient theatre, maybe Greek in the time of the first Persian wars. So we would have Athens, Sparta, Persia and maybe another Greek city or the Ionic Alliance at Asia Minor. Maybe limited period and goals for each player.

Pros: This would limit the game somehow, no technological developments, only limited trade effects, limited diplomacy, maximum wars.
Cons: If a major faction is passive (for example the Persians) the game collapses immediately. The game would be limited to four players.


Alternative would be a round based campaign game in the original Kraxis style. The group of players leads one factions, maybe the Greek before Marathon or one party in the American Civil War.

Pros: No diplomacy. The group could be open, so everybody could invest as much time as he wants. Even if one steps out, the game would continue.
Cons: No diplomacy. All players are only part of the team. All are playing against the host.

[Greyblades]

If we are going to do over in a new setting I have a suggestion:the game of thrones universe, it would be easy to get players for and if we ask nicely we might be able to get the guys who hosted the two gameroom versions to help cohost.
:D

...:)

:/

Please?

[rickinator9]

I would like a 'greece before Marathon' scenario. There are no real dominant states yet(except persia) and thus plenty of possibilities for the players.

[Arjos]

I'm fine with any scenario, although I had hopes for the comeback of "De Bello Gallico" :P
As for playstyle, I'd prefer each player controlling a faction...

Also I have no problem whatsoever in being Persia, making sure I'm present and the game keeps on going ^^

[SwordsMaster]

The other option is to break this down to a lower level: tactical: no economic/technology advances, only single army campaign control.

[The Stranger]

If we are going to do over in a new setting I have a suggestion:the game of thrones universe, it would be easy to get players for and if we ask nicely we might be able to get the guys who hosted the two gameroom versions to help cohost.
:D

...:)

:/

Please?

2 of these games gone south (or north) already... it would be epic but it indeed needs atleast 1 if not 2 co-hosts.

i would prefer the games to be less complex tho because its no fun for anyone if u have to type or read huge orders. imo only diplomacy + army control with limited subterfuge. no economy and no need to be overly detailed imo crude orders and just ask for further details if needed.


personally i would like a dark ages/medieval setting. or in light of the next tw title, a RTW game :p

[Arjos]

The other option is to break this down to a lower level: tactical: no economic/technology advances, only single army campaign control.

I think such a game for the 19th century, would be missing the point entirely for that period...

[Franconicus]

As far as I can see, most players would like to see a round based game with one player per faction and concentration on diplomacy and war. Is this correct?

So how many factions would be right? Would Ionian Revolt be the right theatre?

[Greyblades]

Basically what we were doing?


2 of these games gone south (or north) already... it would be epic but it indeed needs atleast 1 if not 2 co-hosts.
...like Tiaexz and johnhughthom?

[Arjos]

As far as I can see, most players would like to see a round based game with one player per faction and concentration on diplomacy and war. Is this correct?

So how many factions would be right? Would Ionian Revolt be the right theatre?

I'd also like the possibility to perform reforms, be that political, economical or military...
But again, what I really care for is a sustainable game, which is stress-free for the host :)

I think at least me, The Stranger, Greyblades and rickinator9 would like to play...
SwordsMaster and Kival, seem interested aswell...

[Greyblades]

I still say Game of thrones, but I'll settle for Ionian revolt if we dont do it.

[The Stranger]

but would we be doing the war of the 5 kings again?

i would then prefer roberts rebellion or something.

would we play as characters or as factions? (because i think its more the former which attracts people to that universe but its also harder to manage)

[Greyblades]

I think the second iteration worked well enough.

[The Stranger]

there should be clear victory conditions then for each faction, but unique too.

[Franconicus]

I still say Game of thrones, but I'll settle for Ionian revolt if we dont do it.


Tell me more about it.

[Greyblades]

Tell me more about it.

The game of thrones game we played or the setting?

[Franconicus]

Thrones game itself. Is it somehow historical?

[Arjos]

Thrones game itself. Is it somehow historical?

It's set in a fictional medieval world, based on the serie "A Song of Ice and Fire" and run away Franconicus! They want to suck you in the largest game concept ever :P

[Greyblades]

It couldn't get any bigger than what we were doing.
Here's the story thread for the game: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?139816-Game-of-Thrones-Game-Thread-%28In-Character%29
The mechanics, factions etc is here: https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?139698-Game-of-Thrones-Game-Mechanics-Out-of-Character
And if you want to know the series it's based off of without reading an entire book series you can watch these:http://www.mytvline.com/watch-game-of-thrones-online/

[Arjos]

For a moment consider it objectively: he doesn't know the lore and the characters, just to act properly as House Arryn, he'd need to read quite some. And that's for the most passive NPC there is...
Any of us sending him orders about Dorne, that's a huge amount of reading. Anything specific a particular character (Mance Rayder, Jeor Mormont etc...) added with all those he could receive in a single turn and you can imagine the amount of work...

This is already troublesome for a single host, who knows the books, if you think is so easy, start one ^^

[Greyblades]

Maybe we could persuade Jan or Tiaexz to do the lore while Franconius did the game mechanics?

:sigh: the Game of thrones games were the best I've ever played, if I could ever get a chance to play again I'd jump at the chance, and even if I were to forsake said chance to host one myself I couldn't ever do it justice...

Ah well ionian rebellion should do nicely.

[The Stranger]

im so glad you enjoyed playing games in which i was beating everyone :D

[Franconicus]

So we got a plan!

I am already gathering some data for the game. Maybe some of you find time to check to help me.

[Prince Cobra]

I am really sorry for not being very active... :shame: I think it's time to go back in the shadows and once things calm down a bit around me, I can think of returning. I will try to have a look on the new game, though.

[Kival]

So we got a plan!

Which plan?

[Franconicus]

Here is what I found so far:

Naval warfare:

Is based on the triremes, a ship type well-known for all parties.

The triremes is fast and high maneuverable. However, it is not built to withstand storms and its capacity to carry troops or goods is limited.

Standard crews consist 200 men, including 170 rowers and between 18 marines. Vessels can also carry horses. The more it carries, the slower the ship gets and the more likely it is to sink.

Ships from Athens usually carry 14 hoplites and 4 archers. Persians usually have 40 marines.
Admirals from Athens try to out-maneuver their enemies and sink them by ramming while ships from other regions – Persia or Sparta – prefer to fight with the infantry.

Triremes can also be used as transports, and then they have only 60 rowers. Then they are able to transport up to 100 soldiers.

So a fleet of 200 triremes with 40 soldiers on board of each ship can transport 8,000 soldiers.

The triremes carry food and water for one day. Then they have to stop and get new supply. They also have to look for shelter if there is a storm coming. If a triremes stays in the water for several day, it becomes slow. So it is reasonable to carry them on the beach each night.

For these reasons, campaigns on sea depend strongly on bases, where the ships can find shelter and supply.

Question:
What is the average distance, a fleet of triremes can travel at one day?


Warfare on land:

Greeks rely mainly on hoplites combined with psiloi, some light troops (slingers, archers or peltasts). These troops can be professionals, militias or mercenaries. Besides the Spartan army, there were only little professionals. Cavalry does not play any role.

Persia had an army composed of soldiers from different nations. Infantry was lighter, although there were some similar to the hoplites, just with shorter lances. Then a lot of light soldiers with javelins, archers etc. Plus cavalry, maybe the strongest part of Persian army.


possible Factions:

Maybe
Ionia
Aeolia
Hellespont
Cyprus
Caria

And Persia

Persia coul be divided into three parts.

Of course this would be too many factions!!

[Arjos]

Average speed, taken from Xenophon, is about 8 knots over a 236 km distance. Taking "a long day's voyage", that is 16 to 18 hours, counting a midday meal.
Thoukydides records also a non-stop 340 km voyage, in little over a day. But this would tire the men incredibly and they wouldn't be battle-ready.

Also the Peltastai for the Greeks is a bit too early. They were adopted as a consequence of the Persian Wars and the athenian expansion (especially in Thrake and Anatolia). Still I see no problem with very light, but in no way professional, javelin throwers for the 5th century BCE in Hellas.

[Greyblades]

Wow... I had no idea how much Triremes suck compared to ships of the age of sail. I wonder if we can reform what our armies are equipped and train with.

[The Stranger]

im sparta. XD

[Franconicus]

Wow... I had no idea how much Triremes suck compared to ships of the age of sail. I wonder if we can reform what our armies are equipped and train with.

You mean iron armor and steam drive? :laugh4:


Factions - leaders:

Aristagoras - Milet

Cyprus - Onesilus

Caria - Pixodorus



Persian strategist - Daurises

Persian strategist - Hymaees

Persian strategist - Otanes



Please chose your side. Anybody is welcome, but keep in mind that I want it fast and tough!!


Any info about army sizes?

[The Stranger]

im confused on what is going to happen now :S 1 team vs 1 team or is this a ffa?

[Franconicus]

There are some Persian factions and some greek. But it will be war, so propably the factions will fight on two sides. I would like to give each factions individual goals, though.

This game shall be more military focused.

[The Stranger]

so is there anything that distinguishes the factions? apart from the generic differences between greek and persian.

[Franconicus]

no, all are part of the Persian Empire!

No, Milet will get into trouble the the Empire, soon. It has little choice but to start the riot.

[Greyblades]

I kinda want to play as Athens.

[The Stranger]

am i the only one confused by this scenario or the story we are roleplaying?

[Arjos]

Any info about army sizes?

Herodotos wasn't very precise for land battles, in this case (or ever :P), apart for mentioning few casualties here and there...
Karia is said to have lost 10.000 men (likely an exageration, counting all their fighting men) at Marsyas, but right after the battle, they were debating whether to flee Asia Minor or beg for mercy and join the Persians once again. So most likely that was their total force. Obviously not considering the "reserve" from enrolling the elders and maybe early teenagers, who later ambushed and killed Daurises.
As for warships, I don't think they had any really, Rhodos was in control there.
Miletos would've had 6 lochoi of 500 men, to keep in line with their fleet.
Onesilos probably mustered at Salamis 10.000 infantry, 2.500 psiloi and 200 punic chariots (these had a driver and archer, so really movable platforms, nothing more).

Miletos should've 80 triremes. While Persia (that is Phoenicians, Egyptians, Cilicians and Cypriots, who didn't rebel or subdued) numbered 600 in the campaign and Phoenicia should've covered half of it. Considering that Kypros had losses, but most were defections, its number is somewhere in there. Maybe 100-150, since soon as the Ionians showed up, they warned that all their ships should go and fight the Phoenicians.
The persian army had division units of 10.000 men, so maybe when Herodotos speaks of "two persian armies", "the third army", he could be simply speaking of the divisions. I tend to agree to this, considering that Artaphernes (the satrap of Sardis) would've been the commander for the operations and the various generals mentioned, would be leading each division. Otherwise a full army for each person would make several hundred of thousands of soldiers (not counting all the supporting men and women) for almost a decade in the Anatolia: unsustainable for the logistics and resources.
300.000 might've been the total number of men available in the Persian Empire, considering every single ethnicity and in its geographical totality...

So I'd say that 40.000-50.000 in Asia Minor is already an incredible number for the Persians. And the ships available in the eastern Mediterranean, able to transport about half of it.


am i the only one confused by this scenario or the story we are roleplaying?

Think so :P

Three greek poleis, living under the persian yoke, squabbles during a campaign about the chain of command and a tyrrant fearing for his status, stirred a rebellion in the whole region. But without cooperation, they are doomed.
And so the King of Kings sends three generals, to deal with these annoying rebels.

Will this escalade and involve more people, or will the deeds of these men be forgotten in the sands of time?
Really what's puzzling you? :)

[Greyblades]

Honestly it seems hopeless, the Persian invasion took nigh all the Greek states working together to repel, 3 cities on their own seem kinds screwed.

[Arjos]

Meh, that's just the playable and leading ones, there should be several other poleis in the mix...

BTW I'd like either Otanes or Pixodoros, whichever is left over :)

[Greyblades]

Still... way I see it the only way to succeed here is if the Persians aren't putting their all into this at the start and we have to juggle resisting enough to stay independent but don't screw them over so badly that we end up getting the Persians so peeved they sic their entire might on us, otherwise I can only see us winning by playing a guerrilla campaign.

[The Stranger]

Herodotos wasn't very precise for land battles, in this case (or ever :P), apart for mentioning few casualties here and there...
Karia is said to have lost 10.000 men (likely an exageration, counting all their fighting men) at Marsyas, but right after the battle, they were debating whether to flee Asia Minor or beg for mercy and join the Persians once again. So most likely that was their total force. Obviously not considering the "reserve" from enrolling the elders and maybe early teenagers, who later ambushed and killed Daurises.
As for warships, I don't think they had any really, Rhodos was in control there.
Miletos would've had 6 lochoi of 500 men, to keep in line with their fleet.
Onesilos probably mustered at Salamis 10.000 infantry, 2.500 psiloi and 200 punic chariots (these had a driver and archer, so really movable platforms, nothing more).

Miletos should've 80 triremes. While Persia (that is Phoenicians, Egyptians, Cilicians and Cypriots, who didn't rebel or subdued) numbered 600 in the campaign and Phoenicia should've covered half of it. Considering that Kypros had losses, but most were defections, its number is somewhere in there. Maybe 100-150, since soon as the Ionians showed up, they warned that all their ships should go and fight the Phoenicians.
The persian army had division units of 10.000 men, so maybe when Herodotos speaks of "two persian armies", "the third army", he could be simply speaking of the divisions. I tend to agree to this, considering that Artaphernes (the satrap of Sardis) would've been the commander for the operations and the various generals mentioned, would be leading each division. Otherwise a full army for each person would make several hundred of thousands of soldiers (not counting all the supporting men and women) for almost a decade in the Anatolia: unsustainable for the logistics and resources.
300.000 might've been the total number of men available in the Persian Empire, considering every single ethnicity and in its geographical totality...

So I'd say that 40.000-50.000 in Asia Minor is already an incredible number for the Persians. And the ships available in the eastern Mediterranean, able to transport about half of it.



Think so :P

Three greek poleis, living under the persian yoke, squabbles during a campaign about the chain of command and a tyrrant fearing for his status, stirred a rebellion in the whole region. But without cooperation, they are doomed.
And so the King of Kings sends three generals, to deal with these annoying rebels.

Will this escalade and involve more people, or will the deeds of these men be forgotten in the sands of time?
Really what's puzzling you? :)

meh maybe its just that it doesnt appeal to me as much so im trying to play dumb to get out of it XD

[Franconicus]

Factions

Aristagoras of Milet was a tyrant placed by the Persians. He started the invasion of Naxos and failed. Naxos was prepared and the siege was too long, so he run out of money. Now he is in a desperate situation. Daurius does not like loosers. Aristagoras can expect to be banned or worse. He has only the chance to start rebellion to safe his own life or to flee to Greek. The chance for rebellion is not too bad. However, he has to raise the support of his own town Milet and turn it into a democrycy, now that he does not have the support from Persia. Then he has to get the other Ionian polis to side him. Then he has to convince the army (mercenaries, demoralized from Nexos) to follow him. Then he has to convince mainland Greece that Persia is an easy prey.


Cyprus - Can wait on his island for the right time to raise. Of course he wants to be free, but he has time to take his chances.


Caria - Pixodorus
Similar. The Greek at Asia Minor are tired of Persian rule, esp. as trade lays down. However, they can decide if they want to side Milet and make a coup de surprise or wait how things develop.

Athens: Has troubles of his own. Just turned to democracy, which makes it difficult to rule. Most of the other Greek do not like that and esp. Sparta would like to reinstall kingdom at Athens. So Athens has to stay alert. Just began to build a fleet. Although they should like to support Ionians, they will only be able to send a couple of ships. This may chamge if the riot turns out to successful. Could get its own inntertia. More polis jumping on ...

Sparta:
Has little to no interest to interfere at Asia. There is no trade interest, no colonies. Sparta wants to keep the leadership at Greece and end this unholy democracy thing. Of course if Persia should turn into an easy prey, why should Sparta not jump on this opportunity?

Persia:
Difficulty for Persia is that the rebellion hasn't begun. Riots can pop up almost everywhere, so it is difficult to plan the operation, esp. as you do not know who is the enemy and who is the ally.


Of course the situation for the Greece is hopeless - just like it was for Alexander. It would take a genius at least ...

However, if there are not enough players, these thoughts are fruitless.

[Greyblades]

Well you know I'm in. Gimme Athens.

[The Stranger]

i want to be sparte.

[Franconicus]

In reality, Athens played a small role in this rebellion, Sparta none. You really want to play these?

Arjos wants to take either one Greek or one Persian faction, right.

Not enough to start. Noone interested in Milet?

[Arjos]

Fanboys the lot of them, Athenai and Sparte or nothing lol

I can play Aristagoras if it gets things moving, really I'm ok with any faction ^^

[Franconicus]

We would need (at least) one to play Persia, too.

I see three options:

1) We wait for hordes of new and motivated players (we leost Swordsmaster, Rickinator, and some more on the way)

2) We turn the time, forget Ionians and jump straight into the Persian invasion of Greek homelamd. Factions: Athens (GB), Sparta (Shadow) and Persia (Arjos)

3) We are doing a one side game with the three of you (and anyone who wants to join) playing Aristagoras.

Anyway, I would like to play and have a nice and rather quick game instead of discussing the perfect game.

[rickinator9]

I'm still here. You can assign me a faction nobody wants.

[Greyblades]

In reality, Athens played a small role in this rebellion, Sparta none. You really want to play these?

What makes you think we want to play historically? First greek to Babylon gets first crack at the emperor's concubines. Woo! :charge:

...ok I'll be Cyprus, only if we don't get the needed players.

[Kival]

I think I could play in a new game, but I do not know much about this particular time frame. I also do not really want to be the "guys in the east" again... at least not alone. Is there more than one "faction" in Persia? Did Persia have any allies? I can check for myself, of course, just wondered.