Training regimen for the soldiers of the Diadochi... is there any record of one?

[Conan]

Hey guys,

Just wondering was there any surviving record of the physical training regimen that the professional troops of the Diadochi had to go through as part of there training?

I imagine it would have been pretty physically intense!

[seleucid empire]

I may be wrong but I always thought that the diadochi had no professional troops.

I mean even the companion cavalry were just nobles who knew how to ride really well and were from a country with a strong equestrian tradition so they formed excellent cavalry. The foot companions were just made up of farmers. Maybe the hypaspistai were a professional force since they were the royal guards?

Maybe Phillip and Alexander's original army (the one they conquered persia with) was professional but as for the diadochi, Im not sure

[Ibrahim]

Hey guys,

Just wondering was there any surviving record of the physical training regimen that the professional troops of the Diadochi had to go through as part of there training?

I imagine it would have been pretty physically intense!

IIRC Xenophon had a few words on the subject of Hellenic/Hellenistic training, though that's before the timeframe in question, and I can't recall if it was even all that detailed.

[I_damian]

I may be wrong but I always thought that the diadochi had no professional troops.

I'm not entirely convinced of that but if it's true it would explain why they got totally and utterly annihlated everytime they faced a nation that did have them...

[seleucid empire]

I'm not entirely convinced of that but if it's true it would explain why they got totally and utterly annihlated everytime they faced a nation that did have them...

well, really it was only Rome that had full time professional troops

I guess some other nations might have had some full time troops like the spartans or the persian immortals but they were before the diadochi timeframe

I have a question of my own now: For the Parthians, were their cataphracts professional troops or just nobles like the macedonian companions?

[Ludens]

well, really it was only Rome that had full time professional troops

Actually, the Roman legions that defeated the Diadochi were still the conscript levy. That said, those particular levies consisted mainly of veterans from the second Punic War, so they would have had more experience than the professionals they opposed.

I am not sure I know how Diadochi recruitment worked (and no doubt it varied depending on time and place), but IIRC foot companions were settlers from "military colonies": in return for the right to settle they were obliged to serve the Diadochi kings. A pike-formation does require a great deal of drill to function effectively, so no doubt they had received at least some training.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Didn't EB-team once posted something about this matter? I suggest you to go through some of their articles/faction previews.

[Arjos]

Tbh saying "nobles that can ride well" is quite an understatement: these would've spent great part of their day training, both physically (gymnasion) and tactically...
While as Ludens pointed out, they were also klerouchoi, who would live in garrisons and train aswell...

If anything the hellenistic world had a greater number of professionals, compared to the roman one, during the early and middle republic...
This process started after the persian wars, when more and more poor Hellenes, devoted their lives to become mercenaries and later Makedones (picking up and developing boeotian tactics) trained both professionals and semi-professionals...
Just an example, here is Polybios on the preparations for Raphia's campaign by the Ptolemaioi:


Polycrates undertook the training of the cavalry of the guard, about seven hundred strong, and the Libyan and native Egyptian horse; all of whom, numbering about three thousand, were under his command. It was Echecrates the Thessalian who trained most admirably the cavalry from Greece and all the mercenary cavalry, and thus rendered most signal service in the battle itself, and Cnopias of Allaria too was second to none in the attention he paid to the force under him composed of three thousand Cretans, one thousand being Neocretans whom he placed under the command of Philo of Cnossus. They also armed in the Macedonian fashion three thousand Libyans under the command of Ammonius of Barce. The total native Egyptian force consisted of about twenty thousand heavy-armed men, and was commanded by Sosibius, and they had also collected a force of Thracians and Gauls, about four thousand of them from among settlers in Egypt and their descendants, and two thousand lately raised elsewhere.

Roma on the other hand, overshadowed them all in terms of manpower, greater flexibility in the field, not to mention political: most of the time it was socii/allies doing the dirty and hard work....

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

If I understand properly, units such as the Hetairoi and Pezhetairoi were land owners who were well off enough that they had the social status to be members of their respective military units, but also the time with which to train with other such men. Units like the Klerouchoi were military settlers who were invited to settle land and thus improve their social status with military service being part of the deal. I'm not so sure that they were strictly professional in a sense that their "occupation" was soldier, but they probably had a similar martial background to the post-Marian Roman legions.

[Ludens]

They probably didn't think of themselves as "professional warriors" anyway. "Professional" is a fairly modern concept. Hetairoi would have defined themselves as nobles; Pezhetairoi as settlers/farmers; pre-Marian legionaries as citizens doing their civic duty. Warfare was not their profession: it was a social obligation (though in the case of nobles it was their primary obligation).

[V.T. Marvin]

I have a question of my own now: For the Parthians, were their cataphracts professional troops or just nobles like the macedonian companions?
As far as I know they were noblemen. :yes:

Only they had the resources to procure the equipment and the time to devote to training. To sustain such troops as paid professionals would require completely different social and political structure of the society not to speak about quite different economic base and administration to collect taxes with which such force would be financed.

[Ca Putt]

That's my standing on the matter aswell. The nobles and upper middleclass probably trained a considerable amount of time, that would qualify them as "Pros" however all on a private basis. Generally one has to remember that Nobles had a considerable amount of time at their disposal, not having to toil all day to make a living.

What I would find interesting however is what the Pikemen did. You can ride around, lance down dummies and game and practice sword-fighting alone, with a trainer or with Xeno who lives on the estate next door. But Phalanx training takes at least a football-team to practice effectively. So, would landowning "Greeks" form neighborhood training sessions on their own, would all selfrespecting freemen visit the Factional MIC level 3 or above ( :clown: ) on Mondays and thursdays? Would the local authority (instruct someone unimportant to) operate a loud instrument to let everyone know that it's "training time"? right now I can only think of somewhat silly and modern methods. Anyone know more about this?

[Arjos]

Would the local authority (instruct someone unimportant to) operate a loud instrument to let everyone know that it's "training time"? right now I can only think of somewhat silly and modern methods. Anyone know more about this?

Most likely it was something tied to the agricultural seasons: ie, after tilling and seeding, they would've had some time for training in groups...
Though there were also garrisons, with officers and men could've spent great part of the day there, while women and children tended the fields...
Afterall their grant of land depended on their service...

And yes, one could start a whole topic about what constitutes a professional in ancient times: main profession, full time devotion or simply being paid...

[Ca Putt]

heh, I always forget that Agriculture was providing the rythm until Industrialization. Tho the time you mention would be the campaigning season, would it not? The good thing about Agriculture however is that after toiling for a few days there is plenty of time to kill, especially when you can convince your wife and kids to do the work. ^^
So it is to assume that during certain seasons(whichever those may be) the men of a certain region gathered in designated spots to be drilled by a subordinate of the local ruler(and get drunk afterwards)? sounds about right.

[Ludens]

If I recall correctly, there are scattered references in Greek literary sources of citizens getting together and practising their drill. This was not a frequent occurrence, though, and other sources dismiss the need for training altogether. Stabbing with a spear comes naturally: the rest is down to courage and strength, they seem to feel. Anything else is unnecessary. (Source: "Greek Warfare: Myths and Realities" by Hans van Wees.) That was probably an uniquely Greek (or even Athenian) attitude, though, and I doubt it lasted beyond the Peloponnesian War. It certainly would not work for phalangite training.

Incidentally, although the farmer-hoplites did indeed leave fieldwork to slaves if they could afford it, they would still need to be present to supervise the work.

[seleucid empire]

And yes, one could start a whole topic about what constitutes a professional in ancient times: main profession, full time devotion or simply being paid...

Yeah thats true, but also, the Roman soldier had to serve for a set amount of time, not just until the end of a campaign

Maybe the Seleukids had a professional army since they were fighting neighbours and rebellions non-stop for their entire history.

[Arjos]

the Roman soldier had to serve for a set amount of time, not just until the end of a campaign

All depends on which period, I was speaking about the early and middle republic (which are contemporary to the hellenistic states, for the longest period and greatest scope).
The first actually had only levies serving for a campaign season.
With the other, iirc, was even illegal to have any citizen serving for more than 6 years consecutively.

The late republic, was a broken system, bound to collapse, kept barely alive (in image), by the introduction of professional soldiers.

Anyway I'm not saying the Romani didn't have them (stretching this modern terminology in ancient times), just that in comparison, the hellenistic states had more. Plus in the republic, what we would consider full time soldiers/main occupation, for those periods, serving Roma, the vast majority wasn't roman at all.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

It depends on your definition of "professional" the "Agema", the unit which was actually part of the Royal Guard, would have been well trained and essentially full time. The rest would have been varying levels of "part-timers" probably between the British TA (uncertain quality without 3 months to whip them into shape) and the US National Guard (Combat ready in comparatively short order).

Remember - ancient armies moved relatively slowly, and commanders would have had between weeks and months to muster an army and train the units to work together before having the meet the invader.