The War on Christmas: Stop destroying my nations culture!!

[HoreTore]

Every year it's the same. Every year some random activists with easy access to the media gets to vomit all over my Norwegian culture all December. It's got to stop! All I want to do is celebrate christmas the traditional way, the Norwegian way. Why is that so offensive to certain people??

I realize this isn't a very scandinavian-heavy forum, so I'll explain the Norwegian christmas to y'all:

Like the first flower is the sign of spring, so is middle-aged men in suits sleeping in the drunk tank at the police station the first sign that the Norwegian jul-celebration is underway.

Every decmber(ish), we celebrate jul(no, not "yule" you ignorant brits) here in Norway. We've never celebrated christmas(in norwegian: kristusmesse) here, our celebration is not about religion or housing issues in the middle east. No, jul is something you drink. And by drink, I of course mean alcohol. Lots of it. Oh, and food, can't drink on an empty stomach, can you? We've been doing this for as long as people have lived in this country. Now, however, someone wants to replace our glorious tradition with sitting in a boring church desperately trying to stay awake.

I'll have none of it. And even worse, they claim their foreign nonsense is actually norwegian culture! The nerve!

Our ancestors lived in small groups on the few spots of good land on this desolate piece of land. A few clusters of farms here and there, but no cities at all. The closest they got were semi-permanent trade stations called "Kaupang"(translates to "buy-place). We had no Paris, no Rome, no Constantinople, nothing. Thus, organized religion was non-existant. The spiritual beliefs were tied to nature, with all manner of creatures invented to explain mysterious events, like finding the sword you lost a month ago in a weird place. Obviously borrowed by a nisse!!

Instead of religious festivals, they had feasts. The extended family group would gather and eat and drink to excess. Like jul. The middle of the winter is a cold time of the year up here. The water is frozen, the snow is a few meters deep, and there's little to do. In the mind of a Norwegian, that means one thing: it's a bloody good time for a party! I'd say that if you understand why we drink when we do, and why we always drink until we pass out when we drink, you have a good understanding of both Norwegian culture and Norwegian history.

The reason why those middle-aged guys in suits I mentioned earlier slept in the drunk tank, is because they had taken part of one of our most Norwegian of traditions - the julebord. You can compare it to your christmas parties, but it's so much more than that. It's expected of any employer to host it and pay for most of the expenses. Failure to do so will result in a lot of grumpy employees, because our norms and values clearly state that getting drunk together in december is the right thing to do.

But everywhere there's a well, you will find people who like to urinate in them. No exception here. We have a lot of people who want to change our traditional way of life. They want to us to celebrate kristusmesse(christmas) instead of jul. They want us to stay sober. They want us to go to church and hear about the housing problems they had in the middle east 2000 years ago. Allright, I'm a huge fan of changing cultures, but these people try to pass off their south european traditions as Norwegian traditions. That's a lie, and I'm no fan of lies. If they want jul to be about this Jesus-fellow, why can't they just state clearly that they want to change our culture to incorporate a foreign one?

This is stealth-christification.

[Montmorency]

But then, how is it a War on Christmas? You emphatically distinguish between Jul and Kristusmesse, so shouldn't it be a "War on Jul"? I understand the temptation of the snappy thread-title, but it's wrong!

Or is it that you are declaring a war on Christmas? Even if so, it looks like clicktivism to me! Have you really done your part in the cause against Christmas?

[Beskar]

As spoken by HoreTore the Greater, 1000 AD.

[HoreTore]

But then, how is it a War on Christmas? You emphatically distinguish between Jul and Kristusmesse, so shouldn't it be a "War on Jul"? I understand the temptation of the snappy thread-title, but it's wrong!

Or is it that you are declaring a war on Christmas? Even if so, it looks like clicktivism to me! Have you really done your part in the cause against Christmas?

Rest assured, I emptied my share of bottles in december!


As spoken by HoreTore the Greater, 1000 AD.

The spread of christianity in ~1000CE resulted in a change in our jul-tradition. the change was that jul was moved a couple of weeks, from then on we would drink jul at the time the christians celebrated christmas. No church-going though, that practice was imported with the german(etc) workers imported through the Hansa and the Danish period. For example, in the town I used to live, Kongsberg, nobody had heard about going to church in december until german workers were imported by the danish king Frederick to start the silver mine there. Soon though, church attendance was made compulsory, which sparked the local tradition of getting plastered by a bonfire outside the mines the day before church, called Drekkedagsnatta("drinkingdaysnight"). A tradition still alive, each year giving us locals lots of fun, cheer and trips to the hospital to treat wounds caused by stumbling drunk into a fire....

[HopAlongBunny]

Vive le Norway Libre!

[Pannonian]

The spread of christianity in ~1000CE resulted in a change in our jul-tradition. the change was that jul was moved a couple of weeks, from then on we would drink jul at the time the christians celebrated christmas. No church-going though, that practice was imported with the german(etc) workers imported through the Hansa and the Danish period.

Those damn Germans are always trying to pollute our cultures with their ideas of how Christmas should be celebrated. We succumbed when our monarch imported some breeding stock in the 19th century.

[Sigurd]

cool story bro...

[Kadagar_AV]

Welcome to Nationalism HoreTore.

The mjöd is to the left, valkyries to the right... Supposedly we have a band, but Tor scared them away, so all we got for this particular night is him using frost giant skulls as bongo drums.

[HoreTore]

Welcome to Nationalism HoreTore.

As if.

I don't care at all if someone wants to change our culture. Culture isn't a stable thing. But I want honesty.


And an end to the awful idea of sending school classes to church.

[Sigurd]

As if.

I don't care at all if someone wants to change our culture. Culture isn't a stable thing. But I want honesty.

And an end to the awful idea of sending school classes to church.
Ah.. so you are a fundamentalist?
I am sure going to church around juletider has been a tradition the last three centuries. There has been a cultural break from what you describe in OP, hence it was changed and you want it changed back beyond centuries to the foundation of Norwegian society -> which makes you a fundie.

[HoreTore]

Ah.. so you are a fundamentalist?
I am sure going to church around juletider has been a tradition the last three centuries. There has been a cultural break from what you describe in OP, hence it was changed and you want it changed back beyond centuries to the foundation of Norwegian society -> which makes you a fundie.

Rubbish, Sigurd.

Local traditions like Drekkedagsnatta in Kongsberg has continued uninterrupted. You barbarians in the west still eat sheep remains you wash down with booze. The julebord is an uninterrupted, direct link going back to the vikings. Abstinence never caught on here.

We never stopped our traditions, but we became unaware that it was our traditions, as well as their significance and place in our history.


But of course, being nation-hating commie scum I don't give a crap about history or traditions. The OP does not reflect my views, obviously. What I want is an end to a bad practice(forcing kids into a cult), and I find it humorous that people who usually spend their time crying about foreign cultural influence wants to replace our culture with a southern european one.

Edit: also, Sigurd, start thinking about the local traditions you find around the country. What they all have in common is massive amounts of booze(and sometimes food) consumed in smallish groups where most of those attending know each other. No big streetparties with strangers, no religion. That's Norwegian culture in a nutshell, Sigurd. That's the result of the ballfreezing cold and sparse population.

[Sarmatian]

but Tor scared them away

Tor is cool, but I rooted for Loki the entire film. And he would have won, but the film was rigged.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

That film was an accurate representation of Nordic Paganism - Odin comes in at the last minute bale Thor our and bitchslap Loki.

As an aside - what is it about modern Lokites?

Weirder than being Satanists.

About what HoreTore said.

Meh - going to Church (regularly) is basically a post-Reformation thing but let's not pretend here. As long as their have been Bishops lords (or in your case Jarls) have been herding peasants into Church at Christmas and Easter so that the priest can gently but forcefully explain to them how important their Lord is and how he has been anointed by God.

Nor is going out and getting roaring drunk before/after Church a Norwegian or even a Northern thing.

Ever heard of "Carnival"?

So - in summation - HoreTore is a fundy fruitcake and...

8500

[Beskar]

Things got worse after the White-Gold Concordat and the outlawing the worship of Talos in the Nordic regions.

[Greyblades]

Goddamn pointy eared gold-skins, coming here, taking our gods.

[HoreTore]

Ever heard of "Carnival"?

Indeed I have!

Carnival is a tradition which formed in a densely populated area - and since Norway is a sparsely populated area, it is no wonder that it's completely different from the traditions which have formed here.

[Pannonian]

Here in 'murica we've decided that Xmas is a holiday that celebrates excessive spending, spoiled children, and a deluge of irritating television ads. People who complain about the religious aspects are picking the wrong fights.

Like everything else, the Merkins got this from the English, who in turn got this from our German.

[Papewaio]

Sounds like we have Jul all year round here in Aus.

[Sarmatian]

Like everything else, the Merkins got this from the English, who in turn got this from our German.

In the end, it's always the Germans' fault.

[Strike For The South]

Once again Horetore manages to utilize his meager wit and intelligence into one sub-par post.

[Rhyfelwyr]

A Christmas thread in late January, really?

[HoreTore]

A Christmas thread in late January, really?

It was scheduled for christmas, but the backoom is closed then.

It can come at any time though, this thing grinds my gears all year long. The way we introduce norwegian traditions, like how we celebrate christmas, to children and immigrants, is by telling them what we wish we did in christmas, instead of telling them what we actually do. I believe that's quite counter-productive. What's Mohammed Pakistan to believe about Norway after taking classes about norwegian culture, and then seeing what we actually do? He must think we're all a bunch of hedonistic losers!

No, instead of sending the kids to church in order to learn them about christmas, arrange a big feast for them. Giving alcohol to 12-year olds is probably frowned upon, but there can still be lots of food. Let the parents make the food, they're always looking for a reason to cook anyway.

[Papewaio]

What's Mohammed Pakistan to believe about Norway after taking classes about norwegian culture, and then seeing what we actually do? He must think we're all a bunch of hedonistic losers!.

Don't be racist now. It's not only the Pakistanis who think that...

[Hax]

Mohammad Pakistan sounds like a Pakiwood James-Bond style agent.

[Fragony]

It was scheduled for christmas, but the backoom is closed then.

It can come at any time though, this thing grinds my gears all year long. The way we introduce norwegian traditions, like how we celebrate christmas, to children and immigrants, is by telling them what we wish we did in christmas, instead of telling them what we actually do. I believe that's quite counter-productive. What's Mohammed Pakistan to believe about Norway after taking classes about norwegian culture, and then seeing what we actually do? He must think we're all a bunch of hedonistic losers!

No, instead of sending the kids to church in order to learn them about christmas, arrange a big feast for them. Giving alcohol to 12-year olds is probably frowned upon, but there can still be lots of food. Let the parents make the food, they're always looking for a reason to cook anyway.

Awesome trolling, hats off

Edit, can't resist being baited. As if Ramadan and the following sugar-party isn't just a tradition, that Pakistani has more than enough to frown upon looking at his own traditions if he gets serious about it.

[HoreTore]

Awesome trolling, hats off

Edit, can't resist being baited. As if Ramadan and the following sugar-party isn't just a tradition, that Pakistani has more than enough to frown upon looking at his own traditions if he gets serious about it.

And that has relevance to our current "teach them what we don't do, not what we actually do"-policy how...?

[Fragony]

And that has relevance to our current "teach them what we don't do, not what we actually do"-policy how...?

None, why do you ask

[HoreTore]

None, why do you ask

Because that was the point you responded to?

[Fragony]

Because that was the point you responded to?

I did?

[HoreTore]

I did?

Yes.

"by telling them what we wish we did in christmas, instead of telling them what we actually do."

Perhaps some focus on reading is in order, frags?

Although I have to admit that my post was rather rambling and badly written...

[Sarmatian]

Although I have to admit that my post was rather rambling and badly written...

And that's different from your other posts... how?