Civil war and strange royal namesl

[Gilrandir]

During my last Hungarian campaign I spotted strange names of monarchs in some factions which have suffered from civil wars. Thus I saw a French king Gwain (or, perhaps, Gwayne), a Spanish king Alvaro and a Turkish sultan Quansa. Such names are not listed in the corresponding file as royal names. Since all of them were "the First" I assumed that all of their bearers were the leaders of rebellions against the entrenched dynasties with their traditional royal names and were later recognized (by the AI) as legal monarchs. So, a question arises: if there is a civil war which results in deposing the current king, how is the new king chosen out of ringleaders? What v & v's (or other considerations) influence this choice?

[LordK9]

I've never seen a rebellion win. Good question, though - been hoping for an answer :(

Maybe I'll force a rebellion at some point, choose the rebels, and see what happens. I never have rebellions of substance anymore. I THINK that, if say, France goes into total rebellion due to no royal heir then returns, the leader is a son of the former king who was underage at the time of the king's death so that wouldn't cause the unusual names (which I never noticed as I just don't pay attention to details :) ).

[drone]

I have never really given any thought to how the AI picks it's usurpers. I would assume the new leader is a) the rebel general with the most stars, b) a general with royal blood (royal uncles), or c) combination of a and b.

[LordK9]

I have never really given any thought to how the AI picks it's usurpers. I would assume the new leader is a) the rebel general with the most stars, b) a general with royal blood (royal uncles), or c) combination of a and b.

One of the warnings you get states that no general is currently available to lead a revolt who has low enough loyalty and high enough dread so I'm guessing dread is part of the equation too.

[Gilrandir]

I THINK that, if say, France goes into total rebellion due to no royal heir then returns, the leader is a son of the former king who was underage at the time of the king's death so that wouldn't cause the unusual names (which I never noticed as I just don't pay attention to details :) ).
It is not a "total rebellion", as you put it, but a civil war, so the faction doesn't disappear. Technically, some provinces go rebel and the royal dynasty is changed. One more interesting observation I made concerning the new dynasties: they never become ones, that is the ex-rebel-now-king is childless (2 out of 3 spotted cases). The third wasn't given a chance to be tested - I killed the so-far unmarried (and thus childless) sultan and some other noble (with the royal enough name of Mehmed) took over.

[drone]

The game tracks faction leader underage children (this is how reemergences occur), but it wouldn't surprise me if usurpers start with nothing (no kids, no wife). Given enough time, they should be able to get an heir out. In most of my games, when an AI faction has a civil war it's just blood in the water, the faction is usually eliminated pretty quickly so I never really get a chance to see the long term effects.

[LordK9]

Exactly; I've not yet seen the rebels win a civil war.

[Gilrandir]

The game tracks faction leader underage children (this is how reemergences occur), but it wouldn't surprise me if usurpers start with nothing (no kids, no wife). Given enough time, they should be able to get an heir out.
The Spanish ex-rebels lasted for quite a time and went extinct of their own accord. IIRC that Alvaro I of theirs never married - perhaps rebels hate any official procedure including blessing from the state/church needed to get married. :laugh4:

[Gilrandir]

Exactly; I've not yet seen the rebels win a civil war.
How do you know who won a civil war? You are not told something like "there has been a civil war in France and the ruling dynasty has been supplanted by an upstart line". Like I said, you will just see that some (quite a lot) provinces went rebel and others did not. If you remember the name of the king who reigned before the to-do started you can make conclusions, but if not you may assume that the old king is still the king and the rebels are rebels against the anointed one. But it may happen that the AI considered the old king a rebel and sided with the ex-rebels to name them "The faction". I hope I have made my point clear.

[ferdi]

How do you know who won a civil war? You are not told something like "there has been a civil war in France and the ruling dynasty has been supplanted by an upstart line". Like I said, you will just see that some (quite a lot) provinces went rebel and others did not. If you remember the name of the king who reigned before the to-do started you can make conclusions, but if not you may assume that the old king is still the king and the rebels are rebels against the annointed one. But it may happen that the AI considered the old king a rebel and sided with the ex-rebels to name them "The faction". I hope I have made my point clear.
hmm u are right. I never controlled who wins the rebellion. u know after couple of years a side wins and rebellion finished(usually). but who wins? which side is new crown? is another issue witch ı dont pay attention. ı saw some AI change some of the names after a while. as an example famous EL-CID takes different names whne he pass a facion. I used to this. so now ı take care who wins the rebellion more.

[LordK9]

I'm thinking more and more I'm going to have to force a civil war and choose the rebel faction as a test - my guess is that, when you do this, you will know because the color will change to, say, french blue from grey. When I say I never saw a rebel faction win, I meant that if France went into a civil war, the blue faction eliminated all the grey ones (usually quickly). Now, if that blue faction was the original king, now that you mentioned it, I really don't know as I never really followed enemy kings names so it could have changed (ie, the AI chose the rebel faction).

[Gilrandir]

I'm thinking more and more I'm going to have to force a civil war and choose the rebel faction as a test - my guess is that, when you do this, you will know because the color will change to, say, french blue from grey. When I say I never saw a rebel faction win, I meant that if France went into a civil war, the blue faction eliminated all the grey ones (usually quickly). Now, if that blue faction was the original king, now that you mentioned it, I really don't know as I never really followed enemy kings names so it could have changed (ie, the AI chose the rebel faction).
I believe whatever side the AI takes it still will be the faction's traditional colour. The legally acknowledged (by the AI) king assumes the faction's attributes, the rebels (even if they are the ex-monarch's party) get all the shades of grey. It is the same as when your faction is split by a civil war: you choose which side should be yours and it is acknowledged to be a faction, even if you choose the rebellious party.