Time and Distance Overcome

[Strike For The South]

Well, first thing is first. I have had a bit to drink, so please excuse the loose tongue.

In 1804 Napoleaon marches through the bradenburg gate. In 1940 Hitler marches (well drives....well rides) under the Arch Of Triumph. Europeans have long memories. In America at the same time the founding fathers seem like distant memories.

The distance between London and Glasgow is roughly the same as the distance between my house and my university*in the same state.). Europeans don't like distance.

This colors both of our perceptions (Note, when I use the term Europe I speak about only the countries that matter IE UK, France, Germany, Low countries. Yes, everyone is very happy that the Poles shook the shackles of Uncle Joe but they still don't matter.)

The problem is America venerates people whom Europeans still hold grudges against.Washington may as well be Ceaser, through American eyes. This causes a rather rediculously skewed veiw of history.

While Europeans tend to be rather insular, I guess. I'm sure there's a point there, I'm just to drunk to find it. Something about distance

The title is shamelessly stolen from a short story.

[Raz]

I think this phenomenon manifests even stronger in Australia.

Compared to the US, we have even larger states and an even shorter history as a nation. The filthy Europeans landing here might as well have been millennia ago.
And just as your mentioning of distance, people will happily fly across the nation (we're talking 3000+ km) to attend a conference for work, then fly back again post-haste to be back at their usual office within 48 hours.
Music enthusiasts do just the same to see a band they like if they're not hitting up their hometown - from what I hear, it's a rarity for a Brit to travel out of town for anything like that.

And don't even get me started on fly-in/fly-out employment - and you think your commute to work was toilsome!

However, just how interesting this phenomenon is to the sober, well.....

[HoreTore]

Oh look, it's one of those colonials demanding attention again.

[Hax]

Well, there's the issue of language of course. You can't just travel from Norway to southern France and expect to be able to speak the same language all along the way. I guess that sorta contributes to insularity as well.

Cf. The medieval Arab world.

[Idaho]

Europeans are insular? Last I heard it was 90% of Americans that didn't have a passport. Every book I read that was written in America quotes stats entirely based on America. Most Americans think that the rest of the world is either stupid or evil.

[johnhughthom]

Europeans are insular? Last I heard it was 90% of Americans that didn't have a passport. Every book I read that was written in America quotes stats entirely based on America. Most Americans think that the rest of the world is either stupid or evil.

Most Americans realise there is a 'rest of the world'?

[The Lurker Below]

Oh look, it's one of those colonials demanding attention again.

How quickly the English ingrates forgot that when America through off the shackles of King George, it motivated their own government to do the same.

[Sir Moody]

How quickly the English ingrates forgot that when America through off the shackles of King George, it motivated their own government to do the same.

you do realise Horetore is Norwegian right?

Also "How quickly the English ingrates forgot that when America threw off the shackles of King George, it motivated their own government to do the same."

Through would give it a entirely different meaning... its the Queens English you know, we have to make sure you colonials get it right :2thumbsup:

[Montmorency]

"America through off the shackles" has no meaning, as "through" is usually a preposition but never a verb.

Anyway, Europeans are anything but insular. Though perhaps the contemporary credit squeeze, unemployment, and reaction against globalization may be contributing to a less-open phase...

And Poland is more significant to modern Europe than Strike thinks...

At least count Russia among the "countries that matter", you Western-biased chuckler!

[Greyblades]

Most Americans think that the rest of the world is either stupid or evil....And we don't?

[a completely inoffensive name]

It's a false generalization to say that Europeans have long memories and Americans have short ones.

Americans have no memories and make them up along the way.

[Noncommunist]

That said, America is a lot older than many European states and most if not all European governments have changed significantly since 1787 while the US has maintained the same constitution over that span of time.

[HopAlongBunny]

I'm just grateful the Americans don't hold grudges; been a long time since we burned down the Whitehouse; water under the bridge :)

[rajpoot]

This is one of the funnest threads I've read lately. Perfect read with breakfast and coffee. :2thumbsup:

Edit:
BTW Strike what was the short story about?

[HoreTore]

And Poland is more significant to modern Europe than Strike thinks...

Poland is a nation of cheap carpenters, nothing more.

[Husar]

That said, America is a lot older than many European states and most if not all European governments have changed significantly since 1787 while the US has maintained the same constitution over that span of time.

That's why America is so backwards in many areas while Europeans keep reinventing themselves. Having constitutions that can actually be changed makes us more flexible. The only flexibility Americans know is adjusting in a way that gets them more money. ~;)

[Sigurd]

Poland is a nation of cheap carpenters, nothing more.
*cough* Bad Tankers *cough* Siema!!

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

If you view Europe as being like the US, then Europeans would be more insular - but the English go to France - the French got to Germany.

In the US - you think "America" is a country, not two continents.

[Pannonian]

If you view Europe as being like the US, then Europeans would be more insular - but the English go to France - the French got to Germany.

In the US - you think "America" is a country, not two continents.

Americans are disgustingly insular because, when they venture out of their own backyard and visit another country, they go on to expect everyone to cater to them and their culture. Unlike us Brits, who...oh hang on.

[Sarmatian]

Poland is a nation of cheap carpenters, nothing more.

So was Jesus!!!

Why do you hate our Lord and Saviour?

[Greyblades]

Well I'm not touching this with a ten foot pole.

[HoreTore]

So was Jesus!!!

Why do you hate our Lord and Saviour?

Jesus demanded that you throw away your worldly possessions and follow him. That's rather expensive, isn't?

Poles are cheap, the opposite of Jesus... Which means they must be the Anti-Christs.

[Sarmatian]

Well I'm not touching this with a ten foot pole.

Yeah, I know him. Kwazimier Polansky, the tallest Pole I've ever seen.


Jesus demanded that you throw away your worldly possessions and follow him. That's rather expensive, isn't?

Poles are cheap, the opposite of Jesus... Which means they must be the Anti-Christs.

Can we agree that there are super Poles, who are like Jesuses, who have cool powers and they're constantly battling the other Poles, who are more like Anti-Christs and... Ok, wait, I think I'm onto something here - will someone please call Marvel or DC Comics?

[Kival]

Where does this strictly anti-polish position come from? Or is it just a joke, I'm not getting?

[Major Robert Dump]

SFTS conveniently leaves out the fact that Texas and Oklahoma have almost gone to war on several occasions. Texas probably would have attacked and squished Oklahoma several times over now, were it not for Oklahoma's trusted allies Arkansas and Kansas providing us food and manpower, and our ally Rhode Island providing a port from which to launch our navy. Things are not as peachy as he makes it out to be.

[HoreTore]

Where does this strictly anti-polish position come from? Or is it just a joke, I'm not getting?

Don't worry, I consider all our new eastern european states to be equally irrelevant ~:)

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I love how underneath the Socialist facade you're as racist as the most right-wing Norse.

[Strike For The South]

Don't worry, I consider all our new eastern european states to be equally irrelevant ~:)

This is basically what I was getting at.

I fully plan to us the Southern & Eastern Europeans as cannon fodder once the Muslims spill over the gates.

Angloshphere/protestant blood shouldn't be spilled until it absolutely has to.



I love how underneath the Socialist facade you're as racist as the most right-wing Norse.



I love how underneath your facade, you're just sexy.

[Sarmatian]

This is basically what I was getting at.

I fully plan to us the Southern & Eastern Europeans as cannon fodder once the Muslims spill over the gates.

Angloshphere/protestant blood shouldn't be spilled until it absolutely has to.


I love how underneath your facade, you're just sexy.

What's a muslims?

[Strike For The South]

What's a muslims?

The people you tried to ethnically cleanse.

[Sarmatian]

The people you tried to ethnically cleanse.

To avoid spilling precious anglosphere/protestant blood.

See, it all works out in the end and all our choices are predestined.

[Strike For The South]

To avoid spilling precious anglosphere/protestant blood.

See, it all works out in the end and all our choices are predestined.

More like petty tribal squabbles. But hey, if you need to pass the buck, by all means do so

[Sarmatian]

More like petty tribal squabbles. But hey, if you need to pass the buck, by all means do so

Well, the Sioux were on the warpath... We had to defend the cattle.

[HoreTore]

To avoid spilling precious anglosphere/protestant blood.

See, it all works out in the end and all our choices are predestined.

If you had done the job properly, I could've been getting drunk in Rio next year. Now we're out, and I have to watch TV instead.

Shame on you.

[Brenus]

“The people you tried to ethnically cleanse.” You should go back to your books. Serbia is actually the most multi-cultural country in the Balkan. If Serbia would have wish to ethnically clean its territory (as Croatia did), it could have done it. In Novi Sad, where Sarmatian lives, 15 official minorities...

By the way, the “Muslims” of Gorazde call themselves Bosniak.

[Strike For The South]

I'm fully aware of what they call themselves and I'm fully aware living next to someone doesn't mean you won't kill them.

As evidenced every 20 years or so in the Balkans.

Having "official minorities" is typical European racism.

[Ja'chyra]

Oh look, it's one of those colonials demanding attention again.

Dammit, I hate when I find myself agreeing with you :P

[Sarmatian]

I'm fully aware of what they call themselves and I'm fully aware living next to someone doesn't mean you won't kill them.

As evidenced every 20 years or so in the Balkans.

Having "official minorities" is typical European racism.

Haven't you heard? Official minority is the new black.

[Noncommunist]

That's why America is so backwards in many areas while Europeans keep reinventing themselves. Having constitutions that can actually be changed makes us more flexible. The only flexibility Americans know is adjusting in a way that gets them more money. ~;)

Having constitutions that are flexible enough to accommodate various dictatorships over the years isn't exactly a great trait. Plus, there's a tendency for a lot less internal conflict when constitutional changes happen legally as opposed to the government being violently overthrown or subverted.

[HoreTore]

Yeah, European governments aren't exactly an example of stability. We get our deadlock because the Politicians are greedy, you guys get yours because you took checks and balances way too far. How often do European governments basically vote to dissolve themselves? All the freaking time. That would be unheard of here. Not saying one system is better than the other, but let's not pretend European democracy works any better than American democracy.

You've got it the wrong way around... Checks and balances is something the US stayed true to, we have tended to overlook most of them. Separation of powers, for example, is basically non-existent in much of Europe. For example, our Storting(your congress) has absolute power over both the executive and the supreme court. It also consists of just one chamber, so no senate and house of representatives.

Dissolving parliament is a practice that differs from country to country. The reason for doing it also differs. Usually it's due to a vote of no confidence from the legislative on the executive.

[HoreTore]

Having constitutions that are flexible enough to accommodate various dictatorships over the years isn't exactly a great trait. Plus, there's a tendency for a lot less internal conflict when constitutional changes happen legally as opposed to the government being violently overthrown or subverted.

I can't think of a single constitution/system which doesn't include state of emergency powers a dictator can exploit.

And anyway, new constitutions are usually made whenever a dictatorship is formed or deposed.

[Papewaio]

Oh look, it's one of those colonials demanding attention again.

Aren't Norwegians just Swedish colonials...

[HoreTore]

Aren't Norwegians just Swedish colonials...

Danish.

[Kadagar_AV]

The historical relationship between Sweden and Norway much reminds me of the Pulp Fiction basement scene.

[Papewaio]

Danish.

So a pastry rather then a vegetable... ;)

[Husar]

Having constitutions that are flexible enough to accommodate various dictatorships over the years isn't exactly a great trait. Plus, there's a tendency for a lot less internal conflict when constitutional changes happen legally as opposed to the government being violently overthrown or subverted.
Some countries don't need any constitutional changes for their socialist traitor president to use executive orders to allow him to kill both random citizens of other sovereign nations and citizens of his own nation using drone strikes...
Another argument would be that not every nation has about 50% or so of the population believe that they need to hoarde guns to overthrow the president because it's so very, very, very likely he'll turn into a dictator.


Yeah, European governments aren't exactly an example of stability. We get our deadlock because the Politicians are greedy, you guys get yours because you took checks and balances way too far. How often do European governments basically vote to dissolve themselves? All the freaking time.
Yeah, when governments dissolve themselves that's a clear sign of a dictatorial power grab by pretty much everyone in the government. :inquisitive:
I see Americans wish their congress would dissolve all the time but since it never does, they all hope it ends up in a deadlock so nothing can get done. And then they complain that the government gets nothing done and the promised change never happens. And now you tell me that our government flexibility is a bad thing. If we were talking about some internal American issue you'd be talking about how bad congress is instead.


You've got it the wrong way around... Checks and balances is something the US stayed true to, we have tended to overlook most of them. Separation of powers, for example, is basically non-existent in much of Europe.
Not here, but we had some American influence a while ago when we decided not to conquer all of Europe and renew our government instead. Thankfully we didn't go with the entire US system though. I heard Hungary recently changed a few things regarding the powers of the supreme court.

[Brenus]

“I'm fully aware of what they call themselves and I'm fully aware living next to someone doesn't mean you won't kill them.” Unfortunately you are right. However, it didn’t happen in Serbia. Even The Hague International Tribunal, the Anti-Serbs Weapon, had to recognise it.

“Having "official minorities" is typical European racism.” Anglo-Saxon European Racism and it came from USA and Australia. The right of minorities should be recognised fully by the Human Right Declaration and shouldn’t need addendum.

[Whacker]

I'm fully aware of what they call themselves and I'm fully aware living next to someone doesn't mean you won't kill them.

As evidenced every 20 years or so in the Balkans.

Having "official minorities" is typical European racism.

Texan minority?

[Kralizec]

Having "official minorities" is typical European racism.

The US Census is a typical European institution, then?

[HoreTore]

The US Census is a typical European institution, then?

Yes, the US Census was demanded by the EU in order to flood the western world with muslims and appoint the pope as supreme ruler of the earth.

Are you new here, or what?