Mini Guide: Getting started with Rome II [Archive]

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Myth

09-18-2013, 13:26

http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/factions/rome/mon_256.png

Getting started with Rome II

So you got Rome II, installed it, patched it and are ready to seek glory in the ancient world! But you're stumped - everything is different! What is going on? You haven't played since Rome 1, or Medieval 2. Or maybe you played a lot of Shogun 2 but the changes to the food system don't make sense to you. Then read up and feel free to experiment (and contribute) to this mini guide.

For the purposes of this guide I will assume that:

- You know how to play the game (ie. move on the campaign map, lead battles, recruit units, conduct diplomacy etc.)
- You have played through the introduction campaign if you are a brand new player

I will illustrate what and how to do with the Roman faction (because this is Rome II: Total War, and because we must bring glory to the S.P.Q.R.!) but once you get the hang of it, you can easily transfer your knowledge to another faction with minimal adjustments based on their building and tech trees. I'm playing the game on Legendary so if you are playing on an easier difficulty you might find your faction more rich or stable and thus adjust accordingly.

Note: some of these things might and probably will be changed with subsequent patches. The guide is valid as of patch 1 and will be updated if/when I discover discrepancies with the most current patch.

So you start with Rome and some other cities, a couple of armies and a nice weak enemy faction to the north of your borders. I won't tell you how to do things step-by-step as I abhor cookie cutter guides. I will tell you WHY to do these things, and you will then decide how to play the game.

The advantages the Roman faction has (I would go with Junia for the PO and farming bonus):

- Very disciplined and high morale/high defence units. Your guys will rarely rout unless faced wtih really bad odds or you make a lot of mistakes. Once you get to Pretorians you will really have to work hard to get them to rout on you.
- Incredibly strong economy: you start in some of the richest provinces (or have early access to them). Italia, Magna Graecia, Africa, Lybia and Aegyptus are some of the top provinces out there. They have 3-4 ports per province, they have lots of grain, olive oil and wine.
- You will have no public order problems due to the buildings available to your faction.
- Your central position means you can expand everywhere you like.

I willl suggest that, for the start of the game, you chose one general from your family. If you don't have a general from your family - recruit one using the raise forces button (recruit him in Rome). if there are none, get an "Other Families" general. Because for the first 10-15 turns you will realistically be able to support only one large army, and it will be getting all the victories. You don't want a rival family getting that glory because you will have no means to counteract that and if your senate support drops you might find yourself in a pickle (unlikely, but possible).

How to recruit units in a warscape engine TW game

Move your army ("stack") to the edge of the border of the settlement you plan on conquering (Velathri for starters). Then you recruit (in this case: 3 units of Hastati). Your army can recruit the troops available for that province, regardless of where they are sitting so long as it's within the borders of a settlement belonging to the province. So if Rome is your main production center, you can raise your legionaries in any settlement belonging to the Rome province.

I suggest disbanding all the Vigiles units in your starting armies - there is no need to pay their upkeep and food, they are useless at this stage (and probably at all other stages as well). If you need more skirmishers, make use of the superior Veites units.

When/if you recruit a new general make his unit a Triarii unit, as they just do not die to early Etruscan/Carthaginian troops. Same if you've unlocked Legionaires.

After you recruit your Hastati and have consolidated your forces in a single stack, move in and take the two settlements from the Etruscan league, thus completing the province of Roma. Move on to the isles to your west and finish the Etruscans off. By this time, especially if you're the Junii who get a diplomatic penalty, Carthage will dislike you severely and might have already declared war. That's OK - go and take Karalis if you haven't already, thus completing Corsica et Sardinia as a province.

As the Romans, early on it makes total sense to run Bread & Games as an edict. Really, you can't go wrong with public order and food. Plus you don't have the necessary infrastructure to warrant boosting it with an edict.

Technology: what to get and why

At turn 1 start on Supply reforms. Beeline to Cohort Organisation.

http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/tech/rom_roman_military_management_supply_reforms.png > http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/tech/rom_roman_military_management_manipular_organisation.png > http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/tech/rom_roman_military_management_training_reforms.png > http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/tech/rom_roman_military_management_cohort_organisation.png

This should take you around 10 turns. Reasoning: this gets you Pretorians/Legionaries with a max level barracks at that tech level. These troops are absolutely sufficient for a good while (and probably for the entire game if you like). Once you can, return your main stack and upgrade your Hastati/Principes to their counterpart legionary units.

Choose a single unit production center to start with. This has to be a province that will be mainly dedicated to making units only. It will get a negative public order due to the high-end military structures, so you will have little room to add other uses for it. It will also end up consuming food if it's smaller than 3 minor settlements. I highly recommend Roma or Brundisium in such a case, as they centrally located and they are 4 settlement provinces.

Let's say you choose Roma for your legion recruitment center.

In Neapolis get as high a Barracks (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/building/rom_ROMAN_military_main_heavy_4rom_Roman) as possible and get as high an Auxiliary Garrison (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/building/rom_ROMAN_military_main_aux_4rom_Roman) as possibe. In Rome itself get a Temple to Mars (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/building/rom_ROMAN_temple_Mars_4rom_Roman) and upgrade it as high as you can. Once you get to the Training Camp (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/building/rom_ROMAN_military_equipment_armour_3rom_Roman), add two to Rome as minor settlements can't build this line of strutures. The bonuses from different training camps stack, so yu can have an armidoctor and another one to taste.Workshop (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/building/rom_ROMAN_military_equipment_armour_3rom_Roman) can be added as well to another minor settlement once you have the neccessary tech, and then a second one (one weapons focus, one armour focused). The other minor cities should be dedicated to the usual food+trade. As you add more military buildings in Neapolis, add more Public Order buildings in Rome proper to counteract their negative effects. A later goal would be to dedicate your legionnaire producing province to full time war production, meaning that you will distribute your buildings as follows:

Rome: Tier 4 temple to Mars, Colosseum, 2 x tier 4 training fields
Minor settlement 1: Tier 4 barracks, Tier 3 temple to Mars
Minor settlement 2: Tier 4 weapons smith, Tier 3 temple to Mars
Minor settlement 3: Tier 4 armour smith, Tier 3 temple to Mars

The bonuses from the temples stack when they are built in different settlements of the same province. This setup will consume an ungodly amount of food and thus you should aim for it only later in the game when you have vast food surplases and lots of towns with the grain resource upgraded to tier 3/4. The benefits will be 5 experience levels for the leginoaires (6 if you count the faction bonus for Rome), maxed out weapon/armour/ bonuses and around 50% morale bonus (not counting the morale boost from experience). This will trn your legionnaires into supermen.

Also, the unique advantage to Rome is the availability of Auxillary troops. Building an axillary barracks on Crete for example (where the minor faction of Knossos resides), would provide Cretan Archers at tier 4. Building one in select provinces in Africa would give you elephants and so on. Explore the options as you play.

Once you get your army tech down, get these in this order:

Land Management (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/tech/rom_roman_civil_top_land_management) > Tax Labour (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/tech/rom_roman_engineering_construction_tax_labour) > Water Sluicing (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/tech/rom_roman_engineering_construction_water_sluicing)

http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/tech/rom_roman_civil_top_land_management.png > http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/tech/rom_roman_engineering_construction_water_sluicing.png > http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/tech/rom_roman_engineering_construction_tax_labour.png

Reason: 3 growth per city for free is great. It's essentially free food for cities, and it's very easy to get this tech.

From here on, research tech as you need it. Improve your buildings. I highly recommend http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/tech/rom_roman_engineering_construction_concrete.png Concrete (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/tech/rom_roman_engineering_construction_concrete) so you can get a Gladiator School (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/building/rom_ROMAN_forum_entertainment_3rom_Roman) http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/buildings/rom_roman_forum_entertainment_4.png as it's a very advantageous building to have for province development and it's unique to the Romans (others have similar buildings but none have such a high bonus to PO!). From here on, get the tech to upgrade your minor settlements, farms and sewage systems as needed.

Attacking Cartage, adding more legions:

You should be able to steamroll Carthage, your units are vastly superior and the AI minor faction in Africa actually weakens Carthage quite a bit by the time you get to them. Consolidate the African provinces to the best of your ability and trade with as many factions as you can (but that won't be too many at this stage). I advise against picking a fight wit Syracuse as their armies are actually better than what Carthage or Egypt will field. Attack them after you can dedicate two legions to the fight.

Province development:

As Rome (and indeed any mediterranean faciton) you get acces to the http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/buildings/rom_roman_port_trade_4.png Trading Port (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/building/rom_ROMAN_port_trade_3rom_Roman) line of buildings. The barbarians don't have that. Threfore, it is folly not to use the increased trading income from those! Everyone can get fish, but only some can get a vast naval trade network.

I'll talk about minor settlements first as their development is easier. Go for level II Farms, Level II livestock and a level II trading port in all of them.

Only upgrade settlements that produce a resource, prioritizing those that produce grain and fish as they add food instead of consuming it (mouse over your settlement icon to see what it says. If it says Roman Hamlet (Grain) or (Olives) etc. upgrade it. If it says (Market) DO NOT UPGRADE IT. Not at first anyway. Later on, once you have a firm grasp on the food supply and demand of your empire, you may choose to upgrade choice settlements to get better income and roads.)

Why I advise you get trading ports everywhere you can and not fishing ports: early on growth is not that important and you can't eat all your food because you can't keep recruiting units and refurbishing conquered settlements with buildings of your own culture. Because your legions get very experienced very fast with fighting and champion training, and because with a tier 3 barracks and the appropriate tech you are vastly outclassing your enemies, you will be very effective even with just two legions at this stage.

Thus the extra food only brings growth, but you can't make use of that growth unless you have the money to get the extra buildings. Later on, if you start running into food issues and subsequently, you already get a lot of gold per turn, feel free to convert your trading ports to fishing ones.

How to add extra buildings and where

At the start it's more beneficial to have more slots in your minor settlements as they are cheaper. Adding +1 to three settlements is cheaper than adding the fifth slot in the capital. And the minor settlements are what gives you food and money at this stage.

Growth works like this: every province has a growth pool. It's supplied by global food surplus combined with the local factors such as how upgraded the settlements are. There is no point in making your main settlement in the capital province bigger if you have resource producing minor settlements which you will have to upgrade anyway, since they will not only add to your economy but also share their extra growth points with the entire province!

You start adding extra slots to the provincial capital and getting the high tech buildings there once your minor settlements can support them with food and money.

OK here is the tricky part - all the minor settlements are producing food from the farms and livestock and money from the trading ports. Those which are making resources you have upgraded to tier 2 or 3 as technology permits (thus increasing the produced grain, fish, leather, olives, glassware and so on. More produced resources = more trade, thus more money.)

But what to get in the provincial capital? Well the city center line is only available in capitals for one, and most temples are not worth it to be built in minor cities (excluding military provinces and hellenistic factions who have the Temple to Poseidon). Training Camp buildings can also only be built in capitals.

The first thing to understand is that provincial capitals are good for two things: public order (happiness) and extra stuff. For gold and food, you have minor settlements While technically you can specialize a provincial capital for monetary income (Industry buildings, Town Center line for income, income temple etc.) it doesn't really make sense. You get gold from increasing your total number of owned settlements, not dedicating a provincial capital to pure gold income and thus losing out on extra stuff and eating food for it. Gold will come as you expand, and since the armies are capped (and they are your main expenditure), this the value of gold is diminished the bigger you become. However the value of global bonuses, food and good units is universal.

To better illustrate how province capital and minor settlement interact, imagine a scale where the provincial capital is on the left, and with it: how happy the people are and what extra bonuses you can get (such as: global bonuses, research bonuses or unit recruitment). On the right of the scale are the minor settlements that bring with them food and money, and eventually - squalor which is negative public order/happiness.

Take a look at your province as a whole. How you develop it is based on how many minor settlements you have in that province. There is no point in pumping up high tech buildings in the capital if there are only one or two minor settlements to pay for them. The scale will tip to the left and thus other minor settlements elsewhere in your empire will have to help fund them.

So, the most valuable provinces are the largest ones (naturally). In the smaller ones, only add buildings that grant global bonuses such as the Cloaca Maxima or Circus Maximus and Pantheon and nothing else. I'll get to this later.

In big provinces wtih 3-4 minor settlements, you can decide what to get in that province. However, you must and should plan according to your faction's specific buildings. Let's look at what Rome gets as advantages over the rest. The first thing that is apparent is that Rome has a whopping 4 tier 5 buildings (other factions have only one, usually a temple). You can't build more than one of these buildings, but their Tier 4 variants are all great as well! Rome has a distinct advantage as far as building infrastructure and public order goes.

http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/buildings/rom_roman_forum_entertainment_5_d.png Circus Maximus (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/building/rom_ROMAN_forum_entertainment_circus_5rom_Romanrom_rome)

Requires Wine
Improved Bread & Games edict which is already improved once because you are Roman - a great bonus.
Global 5% to cavalry morale - awesome bonus
160 wealth from culture (not bad)
and 30 public order per turn at NO food cost!!! this is a MASSIVE improvement over the tier 4 building which costs 10 food to give lower bonuses to public order. Absolutely one of the best buildings in the game.

Where to build it: a rich province with 3 minor settlements and at least two resources. Ideally I would suggest Aegyptus as it has resources in all of its minor settlements and you can use the public order bonus.

http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/buildings/rom_roman_temple_5_pantheon.png Pantheon (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/building/rom_ROMAN_temple_Pantheon_5rom_Romanrom_rome)

Requires the Marble resource
Further improved Bread & Games edict - great!
+10 to security vs. agent actions (good)
+14 to latin culture spread (good later on when you can quickly get it and stabilize the whole newly conquered province)
+ 2 global public order (nice)
+ 20 public order at the cost of 10 food.

So this building grants (among other bonuses) a net of 22 public order for that province in return for 10 food. You see that it can easily counteract some farm/trade port squalor issues and is a prime candidate for building. If stacked with the Circus Maximus you can safely develop a rich province to max resources/food/trade production and have happiness to spare.

http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/buildings/rom_roman_water_sanitation_5.png Cloaca Maxima (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/building/rom_ROMAN_water_sanitation_5rom_Romanrom_rome)

The level 5 pooping man (the image in the library is for the level 4 building) e is also a unique Roman advantage building and has some very good bonuses:

Requires the Lead resource
Moderate boosts to tax harvesting edict and spread of Latin culture (ok-ish)
+ 12 growth for that province (basically there is no reason to ever upgrade province capital cities if you only need the growth and not the garrisons and money increase, since 12 growth per turn from this baby is more than enough)
+ 3 global growth per turn
It can be built in a province not dedicated to troop production or sea trade. As a side note, Africa is a great province for ship building as it has 4 ports. Consider making military tier ports there. If not, 4 temples to Poseidon and trading ports will make it a great income province.

So how do you balance all these. Well, at first you will have level 2 buildings in your minor cities which only produce and don't cost anything in return. At some point you will build a Gladiator School in, let's say Carthage. That gives you 12 public order and drains 4 food. For that 12 public order you can upgrade Lepcus to a Roman Small Town (Grain) (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/building/rom_ROMAN_city_minor_grain_3rom_Roman) as well as get two farms up to Irrigation Ditch (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/building/rom_ROMAN_outskirts_minor_grain_3rom_Roman) level. That will give you 25 food, and when we count the cost of sustaining a Gladiator School, we get a net profit of 21 food which is then distributed across your empire.

Trading ports, after patch 2, now cost food instead of public order, so most of the times you will keep them at level 2. They are a great source of income however.

Also, in provinces such as Africa, where you have 4 ports, and where you will have a Circus or other such a high PO boosting building, a port to Neptune will be beneficial as it doesn't consume food and it provices port income boosts. An Amphora Factory must also be considered in such provinces if you have the free slot.

In smaller regions that don't have ports (let's say a capital and 1 minor settlement) you will probably have excess public order and a tier 2-3 brickworks will be a good investment.

On the other hand, it doesn't make sense to add the Pantheon in a province that will not be able to make use of the public order it provides when counting in that it will have a Circus Maximus. Also, one slot in your minor settlements (excluding military production centers) should be dedicated to farms. The other slot can be livestock but it can also be a temple that boosts sea trade or industry, depending on how you want to shape the province.

You should experiment and find the best balance for your empire and don't be squeamish to demolish and rearrange the buildings in newly conquered settlements.

Also, consider the library class buildings which boost research, as they cost you a slot in the capital an some food, but their tier 3 and 4 variants are great to further your research, and later on can be converted to income oriented city center buildings.

After conquering Carthage

You should now be rich enough and strong enough to continue with your conquests. Egypt is a great candidate because of the grain resources there. Greece with it's squabbling nation-states is also a good direction to head to. Remember to always march your legions shoulder to shoulder - two legions on the campaign map are virtually unbeatable most of the time and you can autoresolve all but the most important battles thus you get to streamline your rulership.

As far as general and agent traits - always take bonuses to campaign movement range first. These are your #1 priority - the further you can go in one turn, the more value that army has. I'd prefer 12% movement bonus to 20% damage any day!

Use your diplomacy wisely and set up trading partners as all those resources you churn out will make you rich. Also, look at the campaign map and target provinces with resources you might covet.

Good luck and Roma Victor!

Bramborough

09-18-2013, 18:47

Superb, especially in the discussion of economy and building lines. I'm at 50 BC-ish, so roughly 220 turns in, and I see I've been approaching much of this sub-optimally.

I'll second the comment about barracks & troop levels. As Rome, I don't see a need to go beyond Level III Barracks...actually, maybe even Level II Barracks. I've got most of the map now, about half of it under my direct rule, and another 20-25% of it under client states and allies. So all the "hard" fighting is behind me, it's just a matter of my 15-stack steamroller taking the turns necessary to mop up remaining factions. Throughout the game, I've never needed troops of higher quality than Legionaries & Veteran Legionaries. First Cohorts are basically same as Veteran Legionaries, only some very slight variations in capabilities and cost. Praetorians are better, but not so much better as to justify their increased cost. I've never even bothered to build the Level IV Barracks and haven't even tried the troops recruited from it.

I do think it's a good idea to build an Auxiliary Barracks in your troop-producing province. First, it gives you the capability to recruit some good spear infantry (which the Roman barracks doesn't provide), useful for flanks and defending siege artillery from meddlesome cavalry. Second, the Italian aux cavalry (I think it's called Socii Equites Extraordinarii?) is MUCH better than the Roman-recruited Equites during the early & middle portions of a battle in flank attacks and breaking lines.

Fully agree with all comments regarding Circus Maximus and Pantheon. Regarding Cloaca Maxima, I agree that its benefits are also very good. By the time one gets high enough tech to research and build it, however, I'm not sure the growth bonus is all that useful. One's older "core" provinces have probably already maxed out on growth anyway, and the empire is large & rich enough by now that it's really not all that important for newly-conquered provinces to grow at the fastest possible rate. Such new provinces, moreover, have also been developing themselves the entire campaign, and probably don't need the growth. The AI may have built on them stupidly, but the slots are usually all available. This could all be different if one beelines to Cloaca Maxima right after the military line described, and therefore obtain the building much earlier in the campaign...but I'm not so sure this would really be the best tech prioritization.

Myth

09-18-2013, 19:05

You may be right about the Cloaca Maxima, however there is nothing much else to build really. If you are expanding in all directions you will end up seeing provinces that have not grown. Also, the AI has food management issues so I speculate that some areas might be underdeveloped.

About the Auilia Barracks I agree - players should consider it after putting down a training field. I figured that with a barracks, temple to Mars and a training field, and a workshop close by, they'd be far ahead so from then on they're free to do as they deem fit.

I have to disagree with you on the barracks. First of all, you only need one barracks to start and thus upgrading it isn't a big expense. Also, you can get it after you get your military tech and from then on you start investing similar amounts of money and food in ports and civic buildings. Thus it's not a big amount that you save from not getting it. However I find that the Urbans actually perform better than legionaires. Also, come patch 3, the AI will be a lot more competent and thus I suspect the players will need the edge the urbans provide.

Now a tier 4 barracks and maxed military techs is a completely different matter, and probably won't do much of a difference when they come up.

Bramborough

09-18-2013, 19:54

I have to disagree with you on the barracks. First of all, you only need one barracks to start and thus upgrading it isn't a big expense. Also, you can get it after you get your military tech and from then on you start investing similar amounts of money and food in ports and civic buildings. Thus it's not a big amount that you save from not getting it. However I find that the Urbans actually perform better than legionaires. Also, come patch 3, the AI will be a lot more competent and thus I suspect the players will need the edge the urbans provide.

I'll meet you in the middle. While I maintain that there's no real need to progress beyond Veteran Legionaries (in the game's current state), there's also no particularly compelling reason not to max out barracks development either, as it's easily affordable. I will also concede that future AI improvement could well change my opinion on this.

Quillan

09-18-2013, 23:54

Sociopsychoactive

09-19-2013, 01:57

Just a small point. You specifically say to build a barracks building in rome, and this is a mistake. Building slots in the provincial capitol are gold dust and the barracks (and auxiliary barracks) can be anywhere in the province and still get all the bonuses. The TEMPLE wants to be in the capitol because it can go to level 5 there, as does the gladiator school ect for those troops, but core barracks buildings, workshop level buildings ect should always be in minor settlements to leave you slots free for public order boosts and training buildings, they are capitol only.

Bramborough

09-19-2013, 03:03

Holy crap. I started reworking a few of my provinces along Myth's recommendations. Not even close to done yet, but already shocked at how much both my food and income are increasing.

Has become very clear to me that:

1. I was over-emphasizing public order, specifically by building far too many temples.
2. I waited WAY too long to research the tech which allows Level IV settlements. I hadn't realized just how high a percentage of income comes from those.

Hooahguy

09-19-2013, 03:06

Quillan

09-19-2013, 03:22

Reading all of this, Im prompted to rework my provinces as well, Im only making ~850 a turn, pitiful from what I used to be making, which was about ~2k a turn. Somehow it plunged, not sure how though...

One word: corruption. I made the same mistake early on. I had reached a point where I was making about 8000 per turn, and over ~50 years of peace with no military expansions that shrunk to under 5000 a turn. So then I went to reading and researching, then rebuilding the provinces. After some Philosophy techs (some of them reduce corruption, and the side benefit of completing each trio of techs in a tier is further corruption reduction) that went back up to 8000 per turn. Then when the buildings kicked in it climbed to ~13000 per turn. Now, at 60 regions owned, I'm making nearly 40,000 per turn, with 12 full stack armies and 7 fleets maintained. The Empire bonus corruption reduction has a huge impact, too.

Myth

09-19-2013, 08:19

I don't know if my games is bugged, but I don't think it is. I can only build one each of the level 5 buildings. It will not allow me to build a Circus Maximus when one already exists. I built the Colosseum in Rome. I could not build a Circus Maximus there because it only allowed one amphitheater-line building in the city, so I built in Carthago instead. When I completed the Circus, the only upgrade option there was the Circus Maximus, not another Colosseum. Since it finished, I cannot go beyond the Circus in Alexandria. I highly suspect the same will be true of any level V building.

Hi and thanks for your feedback. It is possible that level 5 buildings are restricted to 1 total. I haven't gotten that far yet, as I haven't had the time to play beyond 30-40 turns. The guide I did after my initial experience + some planning based on the encyclopedia, where it's not stated that level 5 buildings are restricted. However, even if they are, the principle stays the same.

Can someone else confirm that level 5 buildings are restricted to one total? It makes little sense to get the technology for those if they are. Also, this might have been changed in Patch 2 (they mentioned high-tier buildings rebalancing)

Just a small point. You specifically say to build a barracks building in rome, and this is a mistake. Building slots in the provincial capitol are gold dust and the barracks (and auxiliary barracks) can be anywhere in the province and still get all the bonuses. The TEMPLE wants to be in the capitol because it can go to level 5 there, as does the gladiator school ect for those troops, but core barracks buildings, workshop level buildings ect should always be in minor settlements to leave you slots free for public order boosts and training buildings, they are capitol only.

Except if you want a Tier 4 barracks which I assume most people will, even if they don't NEED it at the moment. Minor settlements being capped to level 3 buildings means you should not invest a barracks there IMO.

This will work for Rome if you decide that Tier 3 barracks is sufficient, but not for other factions.

Sociopsychoactive

09-19-2013, 10:56

10856

Level four barracks in neoplolis of both types.

Myth

09-19-2013, 13:03

10856

Level four barracks in neoplolis of both types.

Wow, you are right. Barracks are indeed available in minor cities. So, only the temple should be in the captol. Can you confirm if levle 5 buildngs are capped in number? Circus Maximus/Colloseum/Cloaca Maxima and the Pantheon?

I think the issue might be because they seem to requre/consume resources upon further inspection. Circus Maximus wants wine, the Pantheon wants marble and the Cloaca Maxima wants lead.

Do the just want you to have them or do they also consume units of the resource?

Oleander Ardens

09-19-2013, 17:46

Nice guide indeed.

I think it is important to visualize 3 key economic pools when playing:

1. Wealth

2. Food

3. Public order

The first two are global and the third is regional and then provincial. Quite often you have to make big trade-offs between them, especially when adjusting the taxes and choosing your buildings. It is not a trivial thing and I'm greatly enjoying the campaign game. Obviously there are also growth, wealth and characters which are all intertwined. Regional ressources and wonders also play a big role.

I like the way regional/provincial growth and income is related to public order. The higher your public order the bigger the growth and the bigger the income, while a very unhappy province is full of people avoiding work and evading taxes. This great modifier means that the return on investment for level III and IV buildings is often even worse then I first calculated. You have to careful where do you built what to not drain that precious ressource public order. BTW the patch gives you the trend even after hitting 100, which is great. For example Macedonia has a PO of 100 (4) without stationed troops meaning that I can for a bit more disorder to fully skim off that PO growth

Bad213Boy

09-20-2013, 01:35

Neapolis
http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/buildings/rom_roman_city_minor_5.pnghttp://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/buildings/rom_roman_military_main_heavy_5.png
http://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/buildings/rom_roman_military_equipment_armour_4.pnghttp://dxzx499bp2l73.cloudfront.net/images/icons/buildings/rom_roman_military_buff_inf_attack_5.png

The guide has some merit, but Neapolis can not have 3 Military buildings. The most you can have is 2 because there is a port there. You can't turn a port into a military building, unless there's a bug I'm unaware of.

Bramborough

09-20-2013, 02:55

No, Neapolis (or any other minor settlement) cannot have 3 military bldgs, but it doesn't have to. The workshop can be in a different town of the same province.

Myth

09-20-2013, 12:28

You are right. This was an edit after the guide was done based on previous feedback and I got overzelous with the buiding icons. It will be fixed.

Bramborough

09-20-2013, 21:46

I'm interested in thoughts about +tech buildings (and character traits, for that matter). Anybody out there building lots of libraries, +research temples, etc?

Reworking my province building slots IAW Myth's thoughts zoomed my income through the roof. Works great. (A factor may have been the Patch 2 squalor/food tweaks. It's possible that I had settled on some semi-conscious "building rules" which made sense before Patch 2, and then I didn't adjust afterwards until reading this guide).

One constant, however, before/after Patch 2, and before/after reading through the OP here, has been that I haven't built any library-line buildings at all, and very few research temples. I just always felt that there were more compelling uses for building slots. As a result, 240ish turns into the campaign, my overall research rate is in the 120's. I haven't finished out the third tier in any of the six research trees. Each of the remaining tier-three techs are requiring 16-18 turns to research, and I've got enough of them left that it would take something like 150 more turns to completely finish out the entire tech tree.

Is this consistent with others' experiences deep into a campaign, or have I just totally gooned it somehow? Has anyone had success in creating a specialized "research province" or two?

Myth

09-20-2013, 22:37

Bramborough

09-20-2013, 23:49

I placed a suggestion in my constructive feedback thread that we need an agent that deals with research, be it speeding it or stealing it from other factions.

I think there's a dignitary trait line that offers some +research. But like the building slots, I've usually had much better options to choose.

I agree that an agent like the NTW Gentleman would be useful here. Maybe a "Philosopher".

Sp4

09-23-2013, 07:07

I think you can only have 1 Pantheon.

Ethelred Unread

09-23-2013, 10:53

Great guide, looking forward to more.

Suraknar

09-24-2013, 20:29

Bramborough

09-24-2013, 22:52

Really good! Thanks.

Personally what I have been doing is, Put a barracks in the Capital and Auxiliary camp in one of the settlements.

Then Temples go in capital, as well as Aquaducs, Forums etc.

I have not built any of the Military Training Camps...I lack space. But maybe due to the Barracks.

I will have to rethink this approach and put barracks in minor settlements (just not Ariminium, that place has had 4 earthquakes within 60 turns my campaign)...really good point.

The Trading ports this is very good too!

Also, I did not upgrade to legionaries fast. I played 80 turns with Pre-marian units, pretty good units still, and I like the fact that we can field all three Hastati, Principes and Triarii in comparison to Rome:TW ...so I enjoyed my early campaign greatly with them.

My Question is in relation to industrial buildings, are these worth it? Especially the Brick Makers, it would seem these only benefit the province so..is it worth it having them?

Cheers!

My approach has been to concentrate military buildings in just one province, to "contain" their economic impact. As Rome, I've been doing this with Magna Grecia, because with 4 settlements, three of which are ports including the capital, there's enough slots to support 4 military buildings, maintain public order, and remain food-self-sufficient (Syracuse being a grain town helps). The downside, of course, is that M.G. income is gimped, I'm negating one of the richest provinces available to Rome in the early-mid game. I've toyed with other options, however, and this seems to me the best way to do it (or at least one of the best).

The four buildings I build/maintain are:

- Barracks in capital.
- Training field in capital. I'm not sure it has to be in the capital, but I believe I read somewhere in these fora that training field has to be co-located in same settlement as barracks to get the bonuses for troops recuited there.
- Aux barracks in minor settlement. This one's debatable, but it's Rome's only indigenous source of spear infantry, plus I just like Socii Equites Extraordinarii (whether they're actually any good or not is a completely separate question).
- Workshop in minor settlement. The bonuses from this building, unlike training field, are available to units recruited (or even just located) anywhere in the province. Plus one can recruit field artillery, it's always nice to have a ballista in the legion.

Being Rome, I develop both the training field and workshop along the melee infantry attack lines, bolstering the legionaries' inherent strengths. The barracks & field I stick in the capital mainly because Brundisium has 6 slots, so I can put 2 military buildings there and still have room for a temple and circus. In addition, it allows development of the core barracks to Level IV later in the game, whereas I see no great benefit to pushing aux barracks or workshop past Level III.

With several provincial slots taken up by military construction, I build fishing ports instead of commercial ports, to keep M.G. in the positive for food. Later in the campaign when I take over Africa and/or Aegyptus, however, these provinces are capable of gigantic food surpluses, and I can let M.G. go modestly food-negative and shift over to commercial ports.

I follow a somewhat similar approach with naval recruitment, using Corsica et Sardinia as the "fleet builder". The two port slots are military-wharf and shipwright. The advantage of using CeS vice Italia or M.G. for fleets is that both ports are on the same sea region, allowing a fleet to recruit all ship types anywhere in that sea. Like M.G., CeS' economic output is hit hard, but the province is so small anyway that it isn't ever going to be a huge cash cow regardless of how it's developed.

With the imperium-constrained army cap and the system requiring a general's presence to recruit, keeping military (or naval) buildings confined to just one province makes sense to me, and has worked well in both my Rome campaigns. A viable alternative, however, might be to spread these across multiple provinces for an "assembly line" approach. For example, barracks/training field in M.G., aux barracks in Italia, and workshop in Cisalpina. Form the legion at Brundisium and recruit the melee infantry there, then move them up to Italia for cavalry/spears, and finally to Cisalpina for a ballista and the equipment bonuses. You get the same "standardized & centralized" benefits, while red-slot economic impacts are spread across multiple provinces. I might try this at some point in a future campaign (or just re-work my slots later in the current one when I have enough money to do so).

-----------------

I really haven't "broken the code" either on the value of industrial buildings. Sometimes I'll build one in a slot where I can't really find (or need) anything better. But that's not very often. Brown-slots are definitely not a part of my "core" building strategy. I'm sure there's some sort of synergy possible with these in some cases to significantly boost a province...but I really haven't had inclination to figure it out yet.

No kidding about Ariminum...earthquake central. In my first Rome campaign, I never had an earthquake or a plague; didn't even know these existed in the game. On my second campaign (begun yesterday), I've had an earthquake and 3 plagues hit in the first 30 turns. WTF? Not in the patch notes, but feels like Patch3 increased the chance of these occurrences (both campaigns same difficulty level).

Myth

09-25-2013, 01:08

Traning camps can only be built in the capital of a province. They do, however, provide their bonuses to the entire province (see my ss below where I show the Pretorians I can recruit now with a tier 3 armidoctor. At tier 4 they will go over 100 morale...)

Regarding temple choices - if the province has 3 or 4 ports it's better to go for Neptune. The temple doesn't consume food but it boosts sea trade. Plus in big provinces you'll have enough public order due to the circus line of buildings and the B&G edict. A free slot in a 3/4 port province should also go to an Amphora factory if you have excess public order.

For landlocked provinces you can be much more liberal with temple choices. Resarch is good. Hermes is also good if you plan on getting a tier 4 Brickworks. 600 gold from industry is something the barbarians can dream about. Anyways here are some of my provinces. I'm in the process of switching Jupiter to Neptune here and there and I haven't maxed them out in terms of optimal PO usability (not all of them anyway) but I'm pretty happy with the result for now.

It's late though, so I'll make some screenshots tomorrow..

Quillan

09-25-2013, 04:17

My final setup in my first Rome campaign had Italia as my main recruiting province. I had the training field in Roma (these are provincial capital only), plus the Colosseum, Pantheon, and a level 4 library. The barracks was in Ariminium, auxiliary barracks was in Neapolis, and level 3 armorer was also in Ariminium. I think the rest was only enough temples to maintain neutral public order and the rest food, with a permanent "Bread and games" edict going. It was my most valuable province, earning nearly 5000 per turn.

Bramborough

09-25-2013, 06:25

Ah, never noticed the Trg Field can only go in a capital...I guess because I'd never tried to build it anywhere else.

Myth

09-25-2013, 13:03

Updated the guide some. I'll probably do a specialised Avernii guide next (applicable to all barbarian factions of which the Avernii have the toughest start I think)

MadKow

09-26-2013, 14:45

Updated the guide some. I'll probably do a specialised Avernii guide next (applicable to all barbarian factions of which the Avernii have the toughest start I think)

I look forward to it. I have been starting a few Arverni campaigns and so far have had trouble coming up with a solid opening, both regarding targets for expansion and tech tree progression. All i can say so far is "horses are your friends". But even that could change past the early game.

Shahed

10-03-2013, 14:30

Well done Myth!

Myth

10-10-2013, 12:15

Actually in the long-term, Brundisium is better suited to become a dedicated military province by virtue of having less resouces. The more resources in the minor cities, the more of those minor cities you must upgrade to level 4 thereby reducing the available happiness in that province to be allocated to military buildings.

The best setup for me (I'll confirm once i do it in-game) would be:

Brundisium: Temple to Mars + 2 x training field + Circus (or the Maxiums), Minors get 2 x barracks, Syracuse gets upgraded to tier 4. To get the PO needed you'd probably have to dedicate slots in minor settlments to temples.

Rome: 2 x Workshop buildings, the rest goes to the standard. So you recruit in Brudisium, then move north to equip your armies with better weapons and armour and you're good to go.

Also, as Sparta I noticed just how better other faction's fields are. Even so, as the Greeks you should get one Field level of farm and the second one should be a temple to Poseidon since it is vastly superior ot the Roman Neptune. It provides both PO and food at NO cost. There ls literally no reason not ot fill your minor settlement slots with at least 1 of these per settlement.

Minor provinces (that is 1 capital + 1 minor settlement) are best outfitted for research IMO. They are too poor anyway to boost for income, but every bit of research percentage helps. This, of course, is much easier to do as Rome since you don't have PO problems with the execllent Circus line of buildings.

Ironically, playing as the Avernii, your biggest issue will be just how far you have to climb up the tech tree just to get a half-decent way to obtain normal levels of public order. So while theoratically you can rush to Oathsworn and Noble Cavalry, practically it's not feasible to do so as you won't be able to sustain the PO hit you will receive without huge temple spam which in turn will make you starved for food. One hasn't experienced true starvaton for public order unless they've played a less refined faction.

Bramborough

10-10-2013, 16:08

As already mentioned, I've used Magna Grecia as my military province in both Rome campaigns. During Campaign 1, this was the only province that had any military buildings at all, and it worked well enough. That experience lay behind my posted comment above. In second campaign, however, I spread it out a bit and hit upon a setup/process that I think I like even better. Legionary barracks line in M.G., and Aux Barracks in Hellas (because I wanted Cretan archers). Siege workshop at Apollonia, in between the two.

An army spends 3-4 turns recruiting the legionary core in MG, then crosses over to Apollonia for its ballistae, and finally finishes up cav/skirmisher/missile troops in Hellas. Each hop is short enough that it can be done in normal (vice forced-march) mode, and therefore you never lose a recruitment turn. Meanwhile, a 2nd legion can start at Hellas and work the same process in reverse, allowing the build of two legions in parallel rather than in series, as would have to be the case if all were confined to just one province. Pretty handy at those imperium jumps when 3 new army slots open up.

This approach also allows spreading the training/equipment buildings in such a way that each province still has ample slots to remain lucrative and happy. Both Hellas and Magna Grecia were among my richest provinces despite giving up some military slots.

Of course, this does force one to commit to conquering Macedonia and Hellas as early as possible...a task easier-said-than-done early-game vs Greek hoplites. I did this in Normal...may not be as feasible on higher difficulties. The concept doesn't have to require these two specific provinces, of course. I think they work well, however, because of the geographic juxtaposition of Brundisium, Apollonia, and the Hellas border near Athens, and also because a Hellas aux barracks provides a nice missile unit in Cretan Archers.

Sociopsychoactive

10-12-2013, 00:02

Couldn't agree more Bramborough. Sounds like a very sweet setup. I went for Hellas several times, but always by way of conquering Knossos and leaving the spartans alone. This increased my travel time substantially and when I eventually did go after the greeks they tore more than one half-finished legion to peices on the water because of it. THis method seems far superior, and with a little luck you might be able to do it without conquering all of greece first, just get the needed buildings up quickly before moving against the major factions.

Sociopsychoactive

10-12-2013, 00:15

Actually in the long-term, Brundisium is better suited to become a dedicated military province by virtue of having less resouces. The more resources in the minor cities, the more of those minor cities you must upgrade to level 4 thereby reducing the available happiness in that province to be allocated to military buildings.

The best setup for me (I'll confirm once i do it in-game) would be:

Brundisium: Temple to Mars + 2 x training field + Circus (or the Maxiums), Minors get 2 x barracks, Syracuse gets upgraded to tier 4. To get the PO needed you'd probably have to dedicate slots in minor settlments to temples.

Rome: 2 x Workshop buildings, the rest goes to the standard. So you recruit in Brudisium, then move north to equip your armies with better weapons and armour and you're good to go.

I'm not so sure about this myself. I agree with your core point, Magna Greacia as your military province over Italia, that works fine and as most people conquer the rest of Magna Graecia early on doesn't have any major drawbacks, and it's more succeptible to invasion than Italia (especially once at war with Carthage and it's allies) so the garrison troops come in handy.

BUT... Whats the deal with having a barracks in each minor settlement in the province? Am I misreading this? Barracks are province-wide. You can recruit from Lillbaem a unit produced in a barracks in Brundisium without any issues. The only reason to have more than one of each barracks is auxillia barracks for the region specific troops, many of which are specific to Lillybaum for example, but it's still only reason enough to build two in the province.

And the workshop being elsewhere, I do agree with the principal idea, especially when spreading out your recruitment, but I tend to build a workshop up to level two in all recruitment provinces, more if I can afford the public order hit. Not for the troop producing, mainly because it applies the +weapon/armour/shield effects for free to all troops recruited there. While it won't matter in the late game as your swimming in cash, it will cost you more than half as much as you pay to recruit the troops to upgrade them elsewhere. Is this really worth saving a building slot or three? I honestly don't know.

Bramborough

10-12-2013, 00:32

with a little luck you might be able to do it without conquering all of greece first, just get the needed buildings up quickly before moving against the major factions.

True, the only settlements one has to have for this are Apollonia, Athens, and Larissa (for the clear travel path).

Bramborough

10-12-2013, 00:44

BUT... Whats the deal with having a barracks in each minor settlement in the province? Am I misreading this? Barracks are province-wide. You can recruit from Lillbaem a unit produced in a barracks in Brundisium without any issues. The only reason to have more than one of each barracks is auxillia barracks for the region specific troops, many of which are specific to Lillybaum for example, but it's still only reason enough to build two in the province.

And the workshop being elsewhere, I do agree with the principal idea, especially when spreading out your recruitment, but I tend to build a workshop up to level two in all recruitment provinces, more if I can afford the public order hit. Not for the troop producing, mainly because it applies the +weapon/armour/shield effects for free to all troops recruited there. While it won't matter in the late game as your swimming in cash, it will cost you more than half as much as you pay to recruit the troops to upgrade them elsewhere. Is this really worth saving a building slot or three? I honestly don't know.

Not to put words in Myth's mouth, but yeah, I think you're misreading it. I interpret his comment to mean two barracks (one legionary, one aux) spread among the various minor settlements...just don't build in Brundisium, because it's provincial-capital slots are more valuable for all the building types not available to the minors. The reason the training-field line goes in Brundisium is because it's only build-able in a provincial capital. I think the "Syracuse 4x" means that Syracuse is the only town to be built to Level IV (eventually) because it's a grain-resource town.

I'm likewise ambivalent about workshop placement. It's probably case-dependent. Separate-province workshop worked really well in my MG-Macedon-Hellas scheme, for example. In other situations, however, might not be worth the extra equipment costs (which do indeed get pricey).

Alcibiade

10-12-2013, 12:23

Myth, you might be interested by the romana auxiliary guide, it might be usefull for a roman campaign player :

http://tallmyr.se/rome2/

theseeker

10-12-2013, 16:38

A very helpful guide, many thanks.

Seyavash

10-13-2013, 06:00

It appears that only 1 level five building is permitted per type. For example I can only build one circus maximus regardless of how many wine resources I have. Ditto for the colosseum

Myth

10-16-2013, 08:57

Myth, you might be interested by the romana auxiliary guide, it might be usefull for a roman campaign player :

http://tallmyr.se/rome2/

Useful but not up to date or comprehensive enough. For example, look at the tier 4 Aux barracks and what units it can produce in the in-game encyclopedia. Take the Auxillary Persian Cavalry (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/unit/Aux_Per_Cav) unit. It clearly states it can be recruited i Alexandria (it's the best cav Rome can field IMO), but the map doesn't show it.

It appears that only 1 level five building is permitted per type. For example I can only build one circus maximus regardless of how many wine resources I have. Ditto for the colosseum

That is correct. Their placement is very important. I'd put the Colosseum in Rome along with a tier 5 sewage system, and the Circus Maximus in whatever is my main recruitment province since it will have 2 training fields, 2 smithies and 1 barracks (so a hefty -50 to PO just from those, -60 if you count a tier 4 minor settlment).

Alcibiade

10-16-2013, 12:40

Useful but not up to date or comprehensive enough. For example, look at the tier 4 Aux barracks and what units it can produce in the in-game encyclopedia. Take the Auxillary Persian Cavalry (http://dsi0fanyw80ls.cloudfront.net/en/unit/Aux_Per_Cav) unit. It clearly states it can be recruited i Alexandria (it's the best cav Rome can field IMO), but the map doesn't show it.

Ah, ok. My bad.

Myth

10-28-2013, 15:40

Updated the guide to modern standards.

ScipioAfrianus

11-04-2013, 18:06

Bramborough

11-04-2013, 18:54

That's not the way I look at Myth's guide. More generally, I don't think that's what a guide is for.

A TW game is so complex in possible permutations and combinations, the idea of "optimal" is elusive. In any case, a player searching for "optimal" is well beyond needing a guide. Instead, what I believe Myth is offering here is a solid, successful way to get through the early turns with Rome and place the faction on solid ground for mid- and late-game. And that's all a guide should be. After all, the folks out there looking for a guide are probably the folks who are finding themselves struggling to get a good start. Or, other players who've had some success with a faction but see some ideas here to improve.

An alternative way to view the situation: Let's suppose that Myth's guide (or any other) IS in fact "optimal", and represents the "best" way to play a faction. Beyond that, perhaps the fun of a campaign might be in seeing how successful one can be in making major departures from the "optimum". Examples "Ok, so that conventional method obviously works well....let's see how Rome does if we build all its armies solely from the Aux Barracks and mercenaries...no legionary troops." Or "Let's see what happens if we really push the slave factor in economy....slave markets in every city, enslave after every battle...can we keep the lid on public order?"

ScipioAfrianus

11-04-2013, 19:13

That's great to hear, I like options and experimentation. I am definitely one of those needing a basic guide. At least if I play on Legendary I would need to do things more optimal than I do now, and this guide does a good job at telling what technologies and buildings you should always choose and in what order to get the best result.

Slaists

11-06-2013, 19:30

I think your guide is very good. But I think it clearly shows how there is only one true atrategy to play the game. One must basically make the same choices in that ordrer in which you describe, if one want's to play optimally. Am I wrong about this, is it possible to follow a completely different approach than the general guideline you have laid out, and still play optimally?

The guide is a good thing to acquaint a newcomer with the game or give experienced players some new ideas. Otherwise, everyone is encouraged to make their own path. Most importantly, find a style that let's you enjoy the game. I for one, purposely do stupid things based on the characteristics of my leaders in order to handicap my progress a bit. It is in no way "optimal", but brings more fun to my campaigns (for me).

As to "optimal" play, think of it this way: if you play optimally against the AI, it will guarantee a boring mid-to-late game for you aka "steamrolling". Playing the campaign against a human opponent is a different matter. There "optimum play" can be important but also could quickly result in one of the players quickly being so outmatched that the disadvantaged side decides to quit.

Skott

12-09-2013, 09:55

Slaists

12-09-2013, 15:11

I just took Carthage and I was wondering if I should convert their existing troop lot to a Auxillery Camp or a Manipular Camp or should I tear it all down and put something else there in its place? Its my only territory on the African continent so not sure which is best to proceed. I already took Caralis and Nova Carthage declared war on me when I attacked Carthage so I do have to deal with them. I'm guessing I need something to make troops to extend the military reach for my growing empire in that area. A Roman Training camp makes Legionaires but a Manipular Camp makes Verteran Legionaires. Do I need the best training facilities in each town/city or just have them spread out with the lesser training camps taking up most of the captured territories and sprinkling in the big ones every so often in key areas?

Unless you can grab the whole province, can put an auxiliary barracks there as well [some decent desert troops there for variety]. Otherwise, if you have all of the province of Africa, makes sense to go all-out economy there (ports, temples that boost income, etc.): it's a province with one of the highest income potentials in the game if not the highest.

Bellicin

12-12-2013, 22:19

This guide gave me a good start to my first campaign in RTW II, so first off thanks for writing it! I've unknowingly used the same tactic as Bramborough and concentrated my military buildings to a few provinces in key locations (about every third province I totally control). Apart from some minor problems with public order it has worked like a charm so far, and rebuilding a slot here or there has taken care of any issues.

Here's a few pointers I picked up on along the way:

* Amphitheatres are an excellent way to control PO in military provinces (or anywhere really) seeing as they give you +6/+12/+24 PO in just one slot. As food is a global resource its cost can be compensated by building farms in another province. Additionally they give the option to recruit gladiators, which are pretty decent when sprinkled into your ordinary legions for damage.

* Sieges are fun! I used to autobattle them in the original Rome since they were so complicated and time consuming, but in my opinion they've fixed it quite nicely in RTW II. Of course the AI is still a bit weird from time to time, but I suppose sieges weren't really that co-ordinated historically. Also worth noting is that manually fighting sieges can really turn the tide compared to an automatic battle. For Rome both Rorarii and regular infantry troops can hold their own quite nicely in confined spaces so I've been able to hold off large forces with just the garrison.

* Ballistas are awesome, as noted above (I think). Not only do they inflict massive damage but using them is way more fun than I ever expected. Downside is the AI isn't really that good at using - or rather protecting - them.

* Always keep an eye on your army's movement, especially in coastal regions. They can take really strange routes to places, and apparently enjoy jumping into transports and attacking from the sea side.

* A few turns into the campaign I'm starting to encounter different sort of caps that I haven't seen explained anywhere and that don't seem very consistent or logical to me. For instance in some regions I can only 2 Farms and when I try to build another one in an appropiate slot the option doesn't appear (only Temple, Field of Mars and Workshop). In other regions I can only build Cattle Pens instead of Farms after getting a Villa. There also appears to be a cap of the research rate at 200% but I haven't tried that out extensively yet. Does anyone know if this is how it's supposed to work and what mechanic controls it in that case?

* Naval battles confuse me a lot, and I seem to be losing them most of the time despite the odds on my side. Does anyone have any recommendations about it or know of a guide on how it works?

Kind regards

Maximus007

12-13-2013, 06:14

Thank you thank you! for this superb guide I been playing Rome for a couple off days and I just couldn't find a good strategy. This all change after I read this guide now I'm doing really well.
Just have a dumb question regarding buildings. For example on the city of alalia I have a roman village, trading port, cattle pens, and a shrine. So let's say I have the shrine of minerva lv 3 and right above the icon I have convert/dismantle. If choose another shrine from the option do I keep both shrines or just the one:rolleyes:, the same on the cattle and farms do I keep both or just one:wall:

Thanks

Bramborough

12-13-2013, 14:48

Ballistas are awesome, as noted above (I think). Not only do they inflict massive damage but using them is way more fun than I ever expected.

100% agree. I love using ballistae, they're a standard item in the vast majority of armies I build. Slaists, however, has pointed out that the presence of siege artillery significantly affects AI aggression, causing it to rashly attack en masse if the player has siege artillery and the AI does not (which is usually the case). Some experimentation on my part has convinced me that he's correct. I personally don't have much of a problem with this using Hellenic armies with pike units; enemy aggression is exactly what I want. It does, however, start to lead to a certain "sameness" as the battles start to resemble each other. If at some point you'd prefer for the character of the battles to become a bit more varied, try dropping the ballistae.

For instance in some regions I can only 2 Farms and when I try to build another one in an appropiate slot the option doesn't appear (only Temple, Field of Mars and Workshop). In other regions I can only build Cattle Pens instead of Farms after getting a Villa.

From this short description, I'm pretty sure what you're seeing is the fact that you cannot have duplicate buildings above Level I in the same city. So, for example, lets say you have a minor settlement with two open slots. It is possible to build two Villas in those two slots, because the Villa leads to multiple building types. Once one of those Villas has been upgraded into a Farm, however, then that leaves only the Cattle Pen available as an upgrade in the other slot.

Also worth mentioning, the agricultural building types are not available in provincial capitals for most "civilized" factions (barbarian factions are an exception).

Naval battles confuse me a lot, and I seem to be losing them most of the time despite the odds on my side. Does anyone have any recommendations about it or know of a guide on how it works?

I've worked up a rough draft of a naval warfare guide which is under some edit/review. I hope it will appear on this forum soon, so check back.

In meantime, a very short summary: Ram/board tactics require a lot of micromanagement. With fleets larger than say 5-6 ships, my own belief is that close-quarters "naval melee" becomes one of the very few things (perhaps only thing) at which the AI excels the average human player. So...fight naval battles at long range using artillery ships. Use a high preponderance of ballista-equipped ships (say, roughly half or at least a third of your fleet). Use jav/archer ships, with fire-at-will enabled and flaming projectiles chosen, as a screen to protect your ballista ships, which do the ship-killing.

So let's say I have the shrine of minerva lv 3 and right above the icon I have convert/dismantle. If choose another shrine from the option do I keep both shrines or just the one, the same on the cattle and farms do I keep both or just one

No, just one temple. You're converting that slot to different use, not building additional capacity. Same with agricultural buildings or any other type slot.

Myth

12-14-2013, 10:46

Glad this guide is helping people out! Yes, for building slots - you can have only one type of building BRANCH per settlement. You can have multiple branches from a TYPE of building within the same settlement.

So you can have two or even three temples, two civic buildings, two farm tier buildings etc. just not the same identical ones.

Public order control is great for the "civilized" factions due to the theater level buildings. It's not as easy to get a PO bonus with the barbarians. I've mentioned the PO boosting amphitheater in the tech part of the guide.

Bellicin

12-14-2013, 19:47

Thanks for the replies! Really cleared up the issues I had with buildings. Looking forward to your naval guide Bramborough, I'm betting you got it quite right above. Too bad naval battles are so tricky since they look sort of cool until your admiral's ship is sunk by a leves in a rowing boat...

As for there being a cap on researching bonuses I've discovered there is in fact none (at least not at 200%). Apparently I got stuck on that for a while, but am now at 202%.

Kind regards

Myth

12-16-2013, 08:38

As a Roman or Hellenistic faction there is no reason not to build a tier 4 research building in any province which is not dedicated to military recruitment.

Monthar

12-21-2013, 03:21

The guide has been quite helpful. However, I'm lucky to have more than about 2k income per turn. Sometimes it gets as high as 3k or drop as low as 1k. Part of the problem is I have only been able to sign trade agreements with 1-2 factions at a time, because everyone else hates us too much to sign one. This is playing as Junia. I'm currently just around turn 50-55. I've taken all of Africa, Secured the peninsula (all of Italy, Sicily and that 3 city provence north of Rome) and the 2 islands west of Rome. I made one of the cities to the east of Rome a client state.

My questions are.
How much should I be making a turn?
How can I get more trade agreements with everyone hating on me so much?

Bramborough

12-22-2013, 03:24

Army upkeep may be part of it. Are you maxed out on full-size armies and fleets with expensive units?

Despite that, with five full provinces, yeah, hovering around 2K does sound rather low. Especially since 3 of these (Italia, Magna Graecia, and Africa) are among the richest in the game. Without seeing your builds, I suspect they may not be optimized well for income.

A couple of thoughts:

1. How are your Africa ports configured? The strength of this province is that all of its cities are coastal. Build commercial ports in all four, plus a wine market (yellow) and amphora maker (industrial brown) in Carthago. Even at just Level II, this alone should get Africa producing some serious coin.

2. Take a look at how many military (red) bldgs you have, and where you have them located. You don't need more than one of each type. It's possible you have too many build slots throughout your territory given over to military production.

3. If/when choosing between cattle and grain, choose grain in minor settlements. Not only is this better for food surplus, but Junia has an agricultural income trait.

4. As far as trade agreements, I'm not sure, as it's been several patches since I've played as Rome. One idea is to look at your few trade partners, try to develop those trade agreements into higher-value alliances. This will increase your influence not only with them, but with their buddies. Also, when you go to war with someone, look and see who their other enemies are; the fact that you're at war with a common enemy should help relations. Related to that, if you're planning on attacking someone, instead of declaring directly, go to one of their enemies and offer to join the war, perhaps that will help relations as well. These are just general suggestions, not Rome/Junia specific, of course.

zizzurry

12-29-2013, 17:14

"Prepare for civil war from the senate loyalists by destroying the military buildings in the capital to prevent them from having elite units, and keep an army or two stationed nearby to keep them from taking too many regions."

I see in other forum this... Is that true?!... My military buildings are in Magna Grecia, I do not building any of these in Rome. So, when civil war erupts (in Rome???), I'll need to destroy my miitary buildings to have a weakness senate armie?...

Monthar

12-31-2013, 02:50

Bad213Boy

12-31-2013, 04:33

Bramborough

01-02-2014, 00:04

Thanks for the reply.

After starting over a few more times I finally managed to get the finances under control. It seems to work better with Julia instead of Junia, because it's easier to get trade routes with a lot more civs.

I have a few more questions.
1) Do ya'll try to complete all the objectives for each chapter mission for the bonus cash from them?
2) Is it better to ignore the most of the bonus objectives and just complete the main chapter mission? In other words, will I make more money from just conquering my way across the globe taking the provinces I want and expanding my armies as I go instead of trying to complete all the objectives first?
3)After reading some other threads I've started just razing every settlement after taking out the Etruscan League (I occupied theirs because they already had roman buildings). Do ya'll do this too, or are there times where it's better to occupy? Is there ever a good reason to loot a settlement since it just damages all the buildings, but doesn't give enough cash to pay for the repairs/conversions, has the highest unrest from the initial, overtime and all the added slaves?
4) Is there really any point to having fleets with more than just the admiral and maybe a unit or two set to patrol?

- No, I very rarely complete all objectives for a given chapter. In fact, I only remember doing that once, and it was a pretty early milestone. For that matter, I don't really try to complete the main chapter objective either...it'll come eventually. I do, however, often look at the secondary objectives just to see what's easily attainable (say, building a few more ships that I probably would've eventually built anyway).

- I almost always occupy. Less of a P.O. hit than raze. And costs less money to dismantle/rebuild intact buildings than it does to repair/dismantle/rebuild damaged ones. And I strictly avoid looting...slave population is just more trouble than it's worth.

- I build several full-size fleets, but usually later in the game. Early on, yep, I just have the starting fleet (if the faction has one...most do) for exploration purposes. I sell superfluous units, leaving only the admiral flagship plus one extra. Then I send it cruising through the Med and Atlantic to discover factions (i.e., trade partners). The reason for the extra ship is that when the admiral dies, the fleet stays in being and you can just replace the admiral instead of having to build a new fleet at home. Pretty handy when the little fleet is up near Ireland or in the Baltic.

Later on, I find fleets very helpful. AI armies tend to go to sea a lot whether it really makes sense for them to do so or not. Having a few fleets helps to round 'em up and eliminate. In addition, fleets are quite capable of capturing coastal minor settlements on their own, without land army support.

Monthar

01-02-2014, 01:26

Sure Occupy is less of a PO hit initially, but in the long run Raze is less.

Occupy -25 initially and -10 -9 -8 -7 -6 -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 for a total hit of -80
Raze -50 initially and -5 -4 -3 -2 -1 for a total hit of -65

I can see the cost difference for converting some buildings, but if I have to completely dismantle a building to build something else in its place it'll cost the same as it would if I had just razed and not take the extra turn to dismantle before replacing. With Razing the city center and port are the only buildings the remain. All others are blank if the AI had built on them.

Myth

01-02-2014, 18:50

These province builds are busts. I don't know what you've done, but I'm pretty sure you've confused yourself with some of the training and workshop buildings having -10 PO and -10 food. If you move your Workshop buildings to new province all together, this will work then. You can't have all barracks, 2 training, and 2 workshops in one province. No matter how you do, it's impossible.

Sure you can. Two training fields in the capital. One barracks and one aux camp in two minors. Two workshops in two minors. Minors get 2 slots each. Having 3 minors means you get 6 slots, so you have 2 to spare for temples.

The numbers were tweaked in the patches, I might have to do a revision again.

AntiDamascus

04-11-2014, 19:40

Is this still considered up to date?

Stuie

04-14-2014, 18:12

Is this still considered up to date?

You can't 10-turn-rush to Cohort Organization any more because it is much later in the tech tree. The rest of it still holds true for the most part I believe. Even without a rush to legionaires, you should be able to steamroll Carthage with a mix of Hastati/Principes/Triarii/Equites/Velites... I like 5/5/3/2/4 plus your general; nice balanced somewhat historic army.

Myth

04-16-2014, 10:00

You can't 10-turn-rush to Cohort Organization any more because it is much later in the tech tree. The rest of it still holds true for the most part I believe. Even without a rush to legionaires, you should be able to steamroll Carthage with a mix of Hastati/Principes/Triarii/Equites/Velites... I like 5/5/3/2/4 plus your general; nice balanced somewhat historic army.

I did it on patch 10. What changed?

Slaists

04-16-2014, 15:25

I did it on patch 10. What changed?

Cohort organization now is on Level 3 of military tech research (since patch 11 I believe): impossible to rush in 10 turns.

Actually, a lot has changed since the earlier patches. Many of the early guides no longer apply; especially the ones dealing with faction specific campaign tips. Severe reduction of maritime move points has a noticeable impact on how early campaigns play out as well.

zizzurry

06-11-2014, 02:33

Slaists

06-16-2014, 15:42

"In Neapolis get as high a Barracks as possible and get as high an Auxiliary Garrison as possibe"

Myth, what is the advantage of the Auxiliary Garrison in Italia?!... I usually take the Barracks only! In fact, I only built the Auxiliary Garrison in Provinces that has some usefull/cool units (Cretan Archers in Knossos, in example!)

Short answer: Auxilia cavalry [the best Romans can get for quite a while] with all the military upgrades from the rest of the infrastructure you build in Italia :)

For Cretan archers you don't need Knossos, btw, any of Hellas regions will do (Athens, Sparta, Knossos)

Sp4

06-18-2014, 07:29

Myth

06-18-2014, 09:14

The richest province is Africa. It has the most resources and 4 coastal settlements. With the right temple choices and infrastrucutre it should produce the most gold for you. Rome is good because it's one of the more easily accessible and consolidatable 4 settlement provinces. You don't really want your main infantry recruitment center to not be stationed in a 4 settlement province. Also, Rome has only 2 resources so you are not forced into losing PO by upgrading minor settlements, and a full fledged military training center has tons of PO issues (unless you're Rome with a Circus Maximus)

Sp4

06-18-2014, 10:17

Don't have all of Africa. Pesky Egyptians keep sending 2-3 stacks to attack me. My second richest province is Hercynia, with its gold mines and industry. I'm kind of being left alone there at least because the Germans are having a war with the Gauls and the 'guys on the other side' are fighting the Scythians and no one cares about a bunch of Romans sitting there min(d)ing their own business.

Slaists

06-18-2014, 19:56

Italia always turns out to be a pretty rich region for me though (peace and all that growth I guess) I try to do my recruitment far away from there and just focus Roma on printing gold. In my current campaign, Italia is making more than 3 times as much as my second richest province.

If I play Rome, I use Italy as the troop production center same as Myth. This is historical too. Rome did not start to recruit legions outside of Italy until the time of Caesar, auxilia fodder is a different matter.

Same regarding Africa: I'd make it a priority to take that cash cow. Build several temples that boost port income + a dignitary + a tax edict and you're "golden". Add some slave markets for even a bigger "bang". Again, that role for Africa is historical, the province was a significant tax provider for Rome (tax and grain) all the way until the eventual collapse of the empire.

I'd build Italy up as a commercial province if I was playing as a different nation and conquered it.

p.s. As much as possible I go for upgraded city centers: this gives extra recruitment slots and also improves road network which adds significantly to troop mobility.

My stetup would be: Italy: Mars temples everywhere (maxed out); 1 legion barracks (max), 1 auxilia barracks (max), 1 armor boosting workshop (max), 2 training fields in Rome + anything I can get for happiness. I'd build a weapon boosting workshop in Northern Italy to upgrade troops as they march out from Italy.

zizzurry

07-18-2014, 19:21

Myth, you made this guide compatible with the mission objectives?!...

zizzurry

07-20-2014, 23:41

This is my military center (Italy) configuration:

Rome (Capital):
(1) City (lv 3/4)
(2) Basilica Exercitoria (Lv 4 Training Center)
(3) Circus Maximus (I find the sword wielding gladiators to be an able shock troop, due to their ungodly high attack rating) xD
(4) Temple of Mars (lv 4)
(5) Armidoctor (Lv 4 Training Center)
(6) ??? -> I really don't know what put in this slot! xD

Neopolis:
(1) Town (lv 2)
(2) Trading Port (I should have built a military port here instead, but even still, the early income from this port was helpful)
(3) Cohort Barracks (will upgrade to Legion Barracks)
(4) Temple of Mars (lv 3)

Ariminium:
(1) Town (lv 2)
(2) Docks (lv 3) or Portus Classis
(3) Fabrica (lv 3)
(4) Auxiliary Garrison (Socii Equites Extraordinarii, Auxilary Cavalry and battalions of war dogs) xD

Velathri:
(1) Town (lv 2)
(2) Armourer (lv 3)
(3) Temple of Mars (lv 3)
(4) Siege Engineer's Workshop (lv 3)

That's how I did mine. Feel free to critique and/or share your own builds.