American Education, yet again.

[HoreTore]

Boy(6) suspended for kissing a girl/ (http://kdvr.com/2013/12/10/canon-city-school-suspends-6-year-old-for-kissing-girl-on-cheek-hand/).

I rarely get myself worked up, but I do this time. Firing the principal, the teachers and the school board is too little. I say hang the buggers.

Not just because of their utterly idiotic stance on "sexual harassment" and how they view kissing, bu for their complete lack of competence in dealing with kids. How the hell they were able to get their jobs without knowing Piaget completely blows my mind. They are giving a punishment which requires logical thinking in order for a change of behaviour to occur, and the kid isn't old enough to have developed logical thinking. Seriously: Piaget's stages, Dewey's doing, Vygotskij's talking and Pavlov's dogs are the very first thing you learn in any teacher education, and they seem completely unaware of it.

Hang 'em in the town square as an example to others.

[Kadagar_AV]

And here I thought we were gonna do oxymoron's :creep:

Oh well... USAnians being USAnian, wouldn't this fit better in "news of the weird"?

[Kralizec]

Tar and feathers!
:soapbox:


Does Colorado have something like Megan's Law?

[Kadagar_AV]

Suspension for a kiss on cheek and hands...

I guess it would have been Guantanamo if he had kissed her on the MOUTH (oh the horror!!)

[Papewaio]

Well it is the USA why not sue for slander. Afterall wouldn't the definition of sexual harassment be defined by the law and tested by reasonable people not just a definition created by an over zealous school board.

[HoreTore]

Well it is the USA why not sue for slander. Afterall wouldn't the definition of sexual harassment be defined by the law and tested by reasonable people not just a definition created by an over zealous school board.

That would fix one issue, however the larger issue is a school run by people who believe suspending 6-year old is a brilliant idea.

Thus, we are left with but one option: hang them all as an example to others.

The school website brags about how many degrees their staff have. I'm starting to believe they won those degrees as the third prize in the local cake lottery.

[drone]

Hopefully the kid gets placed on the sex offender list, the little pervert!

[Husar]

You gotta be tough on crime to scare away the other pervert kids.

[Kadagar_AV]

When I was 6 we played tag with kisses...

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Boy(6) suspended for kissing a girl/ (http://kdvr.com/2013/12/10/canon-city-school-suspends-6-year-old-for-kissing-girl-on-cheek-hand/).

I rarely get myself worked up, but I do this time. Firing the principal, the teachers and the school board is too little. I say hang the buggers.

Not just because of their utterly idiotic stance on "sexual harassment" and how they view kissing, bu for their complete lack of competence in dealing with kids. How the hell they were able to get their jobs without knowing Piaget completely blows my mind. They are giving a punishment which requires logical thinking in order for a change of behaviour to occur, and the kid isn't old enough to have developed logical thinking. Seriously: Piaget's stages, Dewey's doing, Vygotskij's talking and Pavlov's dogs are the very first thing you learn in any teacher education, and they seem completely unaware of it.

Hang 'em in the town square as an example to others.

Now, now, now, Horry, old bean. If you trot out that Piaget nonsense we might have to think about structure and discipline instead of personal growth. ADMIT that six year olds require different discipline from those even a few years older? That would involve a county system that was not the same for all.

[Montmorency]

Surprisingly, back in 6th grade I never got in trouble for playing the "rape" game with my classmates.

Er, well, it wasn't so much a game as me jumping on them while screaming, "Rape!"

You know, kids...

:uhoh:

[HoreTore]

Now, now, now, Horry, old bean. If you trot out that Piaget nonsense we might have to think about structure and discipline instead of personal growth. ADMIT that six year olds require different discipline from those even a few years older? That would involve a county system that was not the same for all.

"If you treat everyone equally, you treat everyone unequally."

Equality means treating each student differently, as one recognizes that each student is different.

[Major Robert Dump]

That girl did not asked to be kissed, and she will probably never recover from such aggression. That punk kid is a punk, I can tell by looking at him he is a pedophile.

On a side note, you cannot sue for slander if the message was actually broadcast by the victim, i.e. they called the news to their house.... otherwise, we would have never known anyones identities.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

"If you treat everyone equally, you treat everyone unequally."

Equality means treating each student differently, as one recognizes that each student is different.

Bureaucracies loathe this, and American education is nothing if not bureaucratic. Such an education fits our culture, since it prepares you to expect little help aside from your own efforts; to avoid working with the authorities since they'll enforce the law the wrong way for unthinking reasons; and to mistrust all bureaucratic organizations whose mission is to "help."

[The Lurker Below]

6 year olds know love and affection. If sexual harassment had anything to do with love and affection they'd choose a word other than harassment. Unfortunately all it takes is a precedent and then every administrator that follows has to top the prior. As above, yay bureaucracy.

[HoreTore]

Bureaucracies loathe this, and American education is nothing if not bureaucratic. Such an education fits our culture, since it prepares you to expect little help aside from your own efforts; to avoid working with the authorities since they'll enforce the law the wrong way for unthinking reasons; and to mistrust all bureaucratic organizations whose mission is to "help."

That's why the answer is "even more bureaucracy".

You see, when a country reach a certain level of bureaucratic nonsense, it's rules and regulations ceases to affect reality. Norwegian laws, for example, are merely guidelines, not actual laws. The level of bureaucracy in Norwegian education is pretty darn high, but I simply choose not to care about 95% of it.

I care about what my immediate supervisor thinks, but anyone else? Nah, not really.

[Fragony]

6 year olds know love and affection. If sexual harassment had anything to do with love and affection they'd choose a word other than harassment. Unfortunately all it takes is a precedent and then every administrator that follows has to top the prior. As above, yay bureaucracy.

Yay possible lawsuits probably. This is all incredibly rediculous, but consequences can be even more rediculous, so they probably play it safe and suspend the kid. It's certainly not fair. I think things are getting less relaxed here as well, me and my math teacher had a joke, we pretended to be in love with eachother. The principle laughed out his eyeballs when he got the joke, and that was at a christian school. I doubt such jokes would be possible today.

[Greyblades]

That cases like this are even taken seriously make me think the American judges are desperately lacking the Golden rule.

[HoreTore]

so they probably play it safe and suspend the kid. It's certainly not fair.

"Playing it safe" is in this case clearly child abuse.

Not exactly what you would expect from a principal.

[Fragony]

"Playing it safe" is in this case clearly child abuse.

Not exactly what you would expect from a principal.

Oh I am in absolute agreement with you, it's rediculous. Why see something wrong in it, it baffles me. Who started this anyway that a 6 year kid can be suspended for a peck, it's madness, and yeah child abuse. Cruel bastards, for teh children!

:daisy: them

[PanzerJaeger]

Bureaucracies loathe this, and American education is nothing if not bureaucratic. Such an education fits our culture, since it prepares you to expect little help aside from your own efforts; to avoid working with the authorities since they'll enforce the law the wrong way for unthinking reasons; and to mistrust all bureaucratic organizations whose mission is to "help."

This is the best defense of the post-bussing American education system I have ever read. I wonder if LBJ would be proud of the 'great' society he left us if he were alive today...

These days, if you cannot afford to send your children to private school, you shouldn't have had them as the disadvantage of public schooling is so great. It was quite shocking to observe public school victims struggle through college classes that felt remedial to me, and I'm certainly not above average in intelligence.

[Sarmatian]

Pinnacle of stupidity.

[Strike For The South]

These days, if you cannot afford to send your children to private school, you shouldn't have had them as the disadvantage of public schooling is so great. It was quite shocking to observe public school victims struggle through college classes that felt remedial to me, and I'm certainly not above average in intelligence.

We only had one stabbing, 4 pregnancies, and 3 overdoses my senior year.

Personally, I blame the minorities

[Seamus Fermanagh]

We only had one stabbing, 4 pregnancies, and 3 overdoses my senior year.

Personally, I blame the minorities

Agreed. Damn Caucasians.

[Noncommunist]

This is the best defense of the post-bussing American education system I have ever read. I wonder if LBJ would be proud of the 'great' society he left us if he were alive today...

These days, if you cannot afford to send your children to private school, you shouldn't have had them as the disadvantage of public schooling is so great. It was quite shocking to observe public school victims struggle through college classes that felt remedial to me, and I'm certainly not above average in intelligence.

I went through public school and went on to do pretty well in college. Of the public schools in the area, it was probably one of the better ones but it still was public.

[Fragony]

3.) clone Horetore. Public schools needs passionate teachers probably.

[Fragony]

They're all passionate for awhile, but when you're not even getting a decent wage the sheer numbers overwhelm you. In doctors its called compassion fatigue. In assembly lines its called something else. Being a high-school teacher or a middle-school teacher is a totally losing proposition in America, and has been for a long time. Only those committed to the job get into it, and they all get burnt out by the injustice of it all.

Well I don't really know what I am talking about I don't really know anything about the American education system. Public schooling is pretty good here at least. I can think of only two private schools, Stebo and the Lusac (hi Hax! You rich :daisy:) and the Nijenrode University. These are expensive, but the others are just fine

[Husar]

I went through public school and went on to do pretty well in college. Of the public schools in the area, it was probably one of the better ones but it still was public.

You are aware that making this a double-post sort of ruins your point, right? ~;)

[HoreTore]

I'd say I'm doing just fine in college despite the public school system, not because of it. Either way it sucks.

You only have two options though: 1.) Reform based on the latest science regarding how people--especially young children--learn things. This reform would need to be expensive and thorough, and free from reactionary interference. So it probably won't ever happen on a national level. Which is good, because even on a state-level there are really no particularly great public school systems. We not only need new techniques, we need new bureaucratic institutions that are more efficient than the ones we have now in pretty much every way. Daunting task on a state level, impossible task on a national level.

That's very absolute of you, GC...

Fortunately, history has also shown that it's very wrong. You see, it's not that long ago you had such a national reform of every nook and cranny of your educational system. This was after the Russians launched Sputnik, and the US threw a hizzy fit over their inadequacy. This resulted in sensible educational policie, ie. gathering all the professors in one place and letting them fix everything.

So, all you need to do is wait for China to have some major breakthrough, and you'll have a proper educational system again.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

They're all passionate for awhile, but when you're not even getting a decent wage the sheer numbers overwhelm you. In doctors its called compassion fatigue. In assembly lines its called something else. Being a high-school teacher or a middle-school teacher is a totally losing proposition in America, and has been for a long time. Only those committed to the job get into it, and they all get burnt out by the injustice of it all.

Actually, you end up getting a decent (if not world beating) wage and a fairly good retirement package.

All you have to do is play the bureaucracy's game by its rules, put in your years at your repetitive little hamster wheel of learning, and not rock the boat.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

That's very absolute of you, GC...

Fortunately, history has also shown that it's very wrong. You see, it's not that long ago you had such a national reform of every nook and cranny of your educational system. This was after the Russians launched Sputnik, and the US threw a hizzy fit over their inadequacy. This resulted in sensible educational policie, ie. gathering all the professors in one place and letting them fix everything.

So, all you need to do is wait for China to have some major breakthrough, and you'll have a proper educational system again.

So all we need is another Cold War with its fears of being annihilated? Easy Peasy!

By the way, Horetore, USA education in the late 1950s was predicated on fewer than 1 in 5 needed college and a heavy emphasis on science and the (USA label) 3R's

[HoreTore]

So all we need is another Cold War with its fears of being annihilated? Easy Peasy!

By the way, Horetore, USA education in the late 1950s was predicated on fewer than 1 in 5 needed college and a heavy emphasis on science and the (USA label) 3R's

Yeah. This terrorism nonsense isn't going to do it. You could try giving Al-Q some ICBM's with nuclear warheads, that should but The Fear back in Washington.

If not, I guess hoping for another Mao with scientific know-how and an aggressive foreign policy is your best bet.

The increased focus on science was one of the direct results of what I was talking about btw.

[Kadagar_AV]

3.) clone Horetore. Public schools needs passionate teachers probably.

They also need objective ones, not on some socialistic neo-feminist crusade.

[Riedquat]

CAÑON CITY, Colo. — A Colorado Springs 6-year-old was suspended from school this week for kissing a girl on the cheek and hand, according to a report.

:inquisitive: Something is so wrong.. I, living in a third world country never imagined a thing like that could happen here...

HoreTore said it all in the OP... I'm speechless!

[HoreTore]

They also need objective ones, not on some socialistic neo-feminist crusade.

I know you struggle with the concept of being able to have several conflicting ideas in your mind at the same time, so I will simply leave you with a quote from Aristotle:

"It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

[Kadagar_AV]

I know you struggle with the concept of being able to have several conflicting ideas in your mind at the same time, so I will simply leave you with a quote from Aristotle:

"It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

For that to be applied though, you need to be an educated man. Your thoughts also need to be entertaining, and vice-versa.

[HoreTore]

Your thoughts also need to be entertaining

I rest my case.

[Kadagar_AV]

If you quote, at least quote whole sentences. The meaning of the sentence often gets lost otherwise.

I thought you'd know that, but you went to teachers college, aight?

With that said, your thoughts actually WOULD be better off if they were entertaining. It would of course still be the same drivel, but at least it would have some comedy value.

[The Lurker Below]

Actually, you end up getting a decent (if not world beating) wage and a fairly good retirement package.

All you have to do is play the bureaucracy's game by its rules, put in your years at your repetitive little hamster wheel of learning, and not rock the boat.

So I like you well enough but the honesty and truth of this statement makes me want to throw up on you. Dodge quick!

[Noncommunist]

I'd say I'm doing just fine in college despite the public school system, not because of it. Either way it sucks.

You only have two options though: 1.) Reform based on the latest science regarding how people--especially young children--learn things. This reform would need to be expensive and thorough, and free from reactionary interference. So it probably won't ever happen on a national level. Which is good, because even on a state-level there are really no particularly great public school systems. We not only need new techniques, we need new bureaucratic institutions that are more efficient than the ones we have now in pretty much every way. Daunting task on a state level, impossible task on a national level.

Or... 2.) Screw the poor, only educate those who can afford private schooling. Some will yell and scream about vouchers, but that could never replace the public school system without massively overcrowding and reducing whatever debatable quality advantage private schooling actually has.

Bottom line is it sucks. Even should a state have relatively good public schooling, our nation-wide system for higher education is far from adequate. We'll always have the best elite schools, and I don't see why we shouldn't always have the best private elite colleges (after all they're not hurting anyone), but the average community college is just pathetic. The whole educational system needs rebuilding, and it won't happen until some states pass sweeping educational reforms that actually work. Only thing that will happen nationally is maybe some kind of student loan relief.

What if we were to ban private schools and homeschooling? Then rich people would be forced to place their children in public schools and would have a far greater incentive to improve the schools which might lead to many of the reforms mentioned.

[Montmorency]

Children in private schools tend to do well because they come from well-off families, not because their private-school educations are so much better.

Case in point: public high-schools are very well represented on lists of top high-schools in the US.

[HoreTore]

Children in private schools tend to do well because they come from well-off families

Indeed.

The only advantage a private school has, is that it can happily ignore the shifting political winds of the complete idiots who make up the so-called "education debate"(which is nothing more than a collection of the clueless determined to prove their ignorance). Whether this is good or bad depends on whether or not said private school is run by people with brains, however.