Some questions

[alexkon3]

Hello. After reading through the FAQ i've seen that the factions have been updated since the last time i saw it. So Lugia, Bosporan Kingdom, Arevaci
Nabatean Empire are new for me. Will those be in the first release too? cause i cant remember that they where ever really mentioned in an preview or in the dev blog.

So what makes those realms special or in what are they unique? I think i read that the Bosporan Kingdom was some kind of cultural melting point between scythians and greeks and so on. I didn't really check on the others I just read about them in Wikipedia which is by no mean any kind of history book^^ I saw something about the last nabatean king Rabbel II Soter and i thougt Soter aka old greek Savior? so are the nabateans helleno- arabians? I hope the EB team can answer my humble question
Greetings from Austria =)

[Moros]

Yes all of these will be part of EB II and playable as well.

The Nabataeans will start of as bedouins, but can later through reforms become a settled eastern tribal culture and even a hellenistic kingdom. However for the first release the later two stages of possible evolutions aren't fully worked out yet.

[alexkon3]

Wow so the nabateans where a hellenic- bedouin kingdom? Interessting. And am I right with the bosporan kingdom? Are they a cultural mix between scythians hellens and thracians. if i may ask what do those factions feel like if you play them? Are the nabateans more like light cavalry swarming the enemy and the bosporans a good mix between everything? I imagined some kind of hybrid army for the bosporans using parts from all the different cultures. I would of course understand if this info is still confidential master moros xD

[LusitanianWolf]

From All the Previews In One Thread... (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?106937-All-the-Previews-In-One-Thread-10)

Preview of the Nabatu/Saba (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?140870-Preview-Arabia-9-8)
Preview of the Areuakoi (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?143087-Preview-The-Areuakoi-10")
Preview of the Lugiones (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?132265-Preview-The-Lugiones)
Preview of the Pergamese (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=103202)
Preview of Taksashila-(Mauryan-Satrapy) (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?136740-Preview-Taksashila-(Mauryan-Satrapy))
Preview The Boii I (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?126717-Preview-The-Boii) Preview The Boii II (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?127444-Preview-The-Boii-(II)) Preview The Boii III (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?135008-Preview-The-Boii-%28III%29)

Not much has been undisclosed about the Bosporans afaik though, but I gess you are right on them being a mix from greeks and scythians, and will possibly have the kind of tank-archers you could recruit there on EB1
11660

From the The-Sauromatae Preview (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?123266-Preview-The-Sauromatae) where the Kimmerios Bosporos was undisclosed as a faction.

And so, in Europa Barbarorum II you will have the opportunity of playing as the Kimmerios Bosporos, or the Bosporan Kingdom. Sitting on the northern shores of the Black Sea, this Greek Kingdom managed to successfully marry the cultures of the steppe people with the sedentary civilisation of the Hellenes. As the Bosporans you will be able to call upon both the powerful infantry of the Hellenes and the swift and deadly cavalry of the Sauromatae and other tribes of horsemen of the Steppe.

[moonburn]

Wow so the nabateans where a hellenic- bedouin kingdom? Interessting. And am I right with the bosporan kingdom? Are they a cultural mix between scythians hellens and thracians. if i may ask what do those factions feel like if you play them? Are the nabateans more like light cavalry swarming the enemy and the bosporans a good mix between everything? I imagined some kind of hybrid army for the bosporans using parts from all the different cultures. I would of course understand if this info is still confidential master moros xD
it´s always a good mix if you know what you´re doing

someone who plays traditionally steppe factions the greeks will be a strong base to get back and regroup
(hoplites and phallanx as a moving base of operations and protection for the horses and foot archers)

for someone who plays traditionally as hellenes the "scythians" will be used to protect the flanks and harass the enemy into a head on engagement (steppe warriors to screen the advance of the phallanx and then perform the flank operations)

the bosphoran kingdom is like the takashilas a new learning experience on how best to use them what are the weakpoints and the strongpoints and pretty much wich way offers less resistance aka as where to expand

[alexkon3]

it´s always a good mix if you know what you´re doing

someone who plays traditionally steppe factions the greeks will be a strong base to get back and regroup
(hoplites and phallanx as a moving base of operations and protection for the horses and foot archers)

for someone who plays traditionally as hellenes the "scythians" will be used to protect the flanks and harass the enemy into a head on engagement (steppe warriors to screen the advance of the phallanx and then perform the flank operations)

the bosphoran kingdom is like the takashilas a new learning experience on how best to use them what are the weakpoints and the strongpoints and pretty much wich way offers less resistance aka as where to expand

Hmmm I'm really exited for the bosporan kingdom. I like to play with the diadochi the most and scythian horse archers are one of my most important units in my macedonian campaign.

So i have thought of some new questions hahaha.
what is the actual source for the Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou? as i am buying some books on the seleucid empire (my favourite diadochi) like: From Samarkhand to Sardis: A New Approach to the Seleucid Empire, The Roman War of Antiochos the Great , The Seleucid Army: Organization and Tactics in the Great Campaigns i would like to know if there is actually a book where some of the evolution's of the Hypaspistai are explained. Also in Rome TW. EB and all other mods of Rome + rome 2 the seleucids have armored elephants. is there actually something written about that? I've only ever seen 1 relief where an armoured elephant tramples a Galatian warrior. and where do we know if this is an elephant of the seleucids at all.

[Lysandros]

what is the actual source for the Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou? as i am buying some books on the seleucid empire (my favourite diadochi) like: From Samarkhand to Sardis: A New Approach to the Seleucid Empire, The Roman War of Antiochos the Great , The Seleucid Army: Organization and Tactics in the Great Campaigns i would like to know if there is actually a book where some of the evolution's of the Hypaspistai are explained. Also in Rome TW. EB and all other mods of Rome + rome 2 the seleucids have armored elephants. is there actually something written about that? I've only ever seen 1 relief where an armoured elephant tramples a Galatian warrior. and where do we know if this is an elephant of the seleucids at all.

General bibliography on the Seleucids: http://vkc.library.uu.nl/vkc/antiquity/knowledgeportal/Wiki/The%20Seleucid%20Empire.aspx (maybe even taken from a thread here, I think)

I suppose looking for Bar-Kochva and keywords like "army" is a good start for answers to your questions, but I haven't read all of it myself.

[abou]

Honestly, I don't know what we're going to do with the Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou in EB2. The member who had access to the find left the team long ago and so we lost track of the info. It's really up in the air with what we'll do.

[alexkon3]

Honestly, I don't know what we're going to do with the Thorakitai Agematos Basilikou in EB2. The member who had access to the find left the team long ago and so we lost track of the info. It's really up in the air with what we'll do.

Oh that's sad i really liked the idea of them. I always thought you will get the Hypastipist reforms in with them as the ultimate goal. Are you unable to contact the guy? I also find it quite sad that so many members of the eb team are disappearing without a trace and that the knowledge they brought with them is gone too.

Thx Lysandros. awesome!

[abou]

It is indeed sad. Personally, I liked the original version from the 0.7 release. Until the find gets published, without him on the team I'm not sure how comfortable we are with using the unit. There was debate about the veil being something similar to an aventail instead. The only other thing I can remember us discussing was that there were Seleukid coins found in the grave; however, I don't remember which kings. At the least, the use of a large thureos, chain mail, and iron helmet are common. The only thing I would do differently is use the spear overhanded rather than under.

I'm in contact with him regularly, but I suppose it is better to say that he left the history field for better financial prospects in the business world.

[alexkon3]

It is indeed sad. Personally, I liked the original version from the 0.7 release. Until the find gets published, without him on the team I'm not sure how comfortable we are with using the unit. There was debate about the veil being something similar to an aventail instead. The only other thing I can remember us discussing was that there were Seleukid coins found in the grave; however, I don't remember which kings. At the least, the use of a large thureos, chain mail, and iron helmet are common. The only thing I would do differently is use the spear overhanded rather than under.

I'm in contact with him regularly, but I suppose it is better to say that he left the history field for better financial prospects in the business world.


hmm that's sad but at least you could ask for permission perhapse? I personally think it would be sad to not include one of the iconic units from eb. but i would fully understand it if the team would not include them because off stated reasons. i think i've asked the same thing about the heitaeroi kataphraktoi and a team member said they wont be in eb 2 too =(

[abou]

Unfortunately, it's the same guy. If it makes you feel better, face masks and heavily armored cavalry aren't impossible either -- it just might not look like they once did.

[moonburn]

the seulekid king afterwards known as "soter" made an agreament with the mauryan kingdom and received indian elephants with their respective mahouts wich he then used in messi asia to stop the galatian invasion (soter being saviour in greek) so thats the source of your information most likely

indian elephants are bigger then the average forest/bush african elephant used by the ptolemaioi and the karthies and the other elephant specie that existed in africa is suposed to be too wild to be able to domesticated

as for the tab i have no clue i can only infeer as it being a conjunction of diferent traditions the persians had the kings 10.000 bodyguards/elite forces alexandros ganged his best seasoned troops into one elite unit that myth says fighted well into their 60´s and had to be "destroyed" by sending 3 men at a time against an army (this forçe being in average 5.000 men ) towards the end of the 2nd (?) diadochii war

the greeks and hellenes always had the grey hair tradition (altough the makedonians didn´t ganged them together but kept them on their own units to inspire the young ones )

the seulekids at a time had a standing army of 10.000 elite warriors that could use several diferent weapons (like alexandros who used to equip his men with either the sarissa or equip them as peltastai depending on the job that had to be done altough they where later replaced by hill people to save up the manpower of the phallanx) so a very flexible army composed of experienced warriors (the grey hairs but that in rtw where the silver shields ... hurra for acurate translations) but according to some other researchers this army if existed was divided in 2 arms one who was suposed to be equiped as the tab (agematos) and another one that was equiped as the right side of the phallanx (each group containing 5.000 men)

so the tab´s aren´t farfetched there´s plenty of "tradition" and continuation of such groups both on the greek side and on the persian side

but this is what i can remember and sometimes my memory plays tricks on me so all of this requires confirmation

[abou]

Also in Rome TW. EB and all other mods of Rome + rome 2 the seleucids have armored elephants. is there actually something written about that? I've only ever seen 1 relief where an armoured elephant tramples a Galatian warrior. and where do we know if this is an elephant of the seleucids at all.Sorry, I missed this earlier.

The terracotta you are referring to comes from, I believe, Egypt. The elephant has what I think are lames on the legs and neck. There is a fragment of a bronze figurine from Mysia that shows a fully armored elephant with scale over the body and a chamfron on the head. Sekunda put it in one of his books, but it was originally published in a 19th century collection of Roman and Greek bronzes.

The literary reference comes from I. Macc 6.43: http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv/rsv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=4219672


[43] And Eleazar, called Avaran, saw that one of the beasts was equipped with royal armor. It was taller than all the others, and he supposed that the king was upon it.

[alexkon3]

omg thx moonburn and abou nice infos you have there! and abou i think you will sort those things about the Thorakitai and the Katatanks out i have faith in the eb team as always xD

[kdrakak]

From Samarkhand to Sardis: A New Approach to the Seleucid Empire,

You are actually buying this? Every copy i could find was ridiculously expensive! I am curious did you decide to pay as much as you had to or did you find it at a reasonable price?

[alexkon3]

You are actually buying this? Every copy i could find was ridiculously expensive! I am curious did you decide to pay as much as you had to or did you find it at a reasonable price?

Yeah i know i originally wanted to get it for my birthday but its like 500 - 600 € so a bit too expensive =/

[Arjos]

Googlebooks has the complete virtual copy (http://books.google.it/books?id=IZ65PED6ykMC&printsec=frontcover&hl=it#v=onepage&q&f=false) of it, save your money! :D

[kdrakak]

Googlebooks has the complete virtual copy (http://books.google.it/books?id=IZ65PED6ykMC&printsec=frontcover&hl=it#v=onepage&q&f=false) of it, save your money! :D

I know and it's in my favorites list, BUT I hate reading books on a pad or PC, except for work purposes. This type of reading however is meant to be fun for me and I love the feel of paper in my hands.

[kdrakak]

hmm that's sad but at least you could ask for permission perhapse? I personally think it would be sad to not include one of the iconic units from eb. but i would fully understand it if the team would not include them because off stated reasons. i think i've asked the same thing about the heitaeroi kataphraktoi and a team member said they wont be in eb 2 too =(

I do remember a picture of a relief on Hetairoi Kataphraktoi from this forum, but have not searched for it yet. I am not sure on the dating of that and hence on the advent of this super heavy cavalry. Btw I finished a Bactrian campaign for the second time and was particularly troubled with two things about this unit. a) How often their charge (on level ground and with more than plenty space to build the necessary momentum) was pathetically ineffective especially for the +47 bonus they feature and b) how easily they would take casualties even from light units despite their super heavy armor (fatigue does not explain it... I observed this effect on warmed up units). Unless the numbers on the description are different from the actual ones in the engine... Any clues?

[alexkon3]

I do remember a picture of a relief on Hetairoi Kataphraktoi from this forum, but have not searched for it yet. so theoretical you could find it?

[kdrakak]

so theoretical you could find it?
theoretically you could too ;)

[alexkon3]

theoretically you could too ;)
hmmmmm I've searched the forums many times but never found anything that's why i thought you could find it xD

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

hmmmmm I've searched the forums many times but never found anything that's why i thought you could find it xD

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?102797-Assorted-Historical-Questions-Gertrude-et-al-ask-them-here!&highlight=Hetairoi%20Kataphractoi

No pictures that I could find but this is the thread where it was discussed.