A Confederacy of Divorcées

[Lemur]

Doing unrelated research for something I'm writing, stumbled across this. There seems to be a relationship between conservative protestants, the geography of the former Confederacy (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/27/Map_of_CSA_4.png/550px-Map_of_CSA_4.png), and high divorce rates. And it bleeds into their neighbors, i.e., just living near Biblical literalists (the study's definition of "conservative protestant) makes you more likely to divorce. Thoughts?

Conservative Protestants’ divorce rates spread to their red state neighbors (http://www.religionnews.com/2014/01/21/study-conservative-protestants-divorce-rates-spread-red-state-neighbors/)

https://i.imgur.com/FqPyVBU.jpg

Researchers found that simply living in an area with a large concentration of conservative Protestants increases the chances of divorce, even for those who are not themselves conservative Protestants.

According to researchers who took into account race, income and other factors, marriage and fertility trends that are common among conservative Protestants — younger marriage, more kids, less higher education — affect all people in areas most populated by conservative Protestants, no matter their personal religious affiliation.

“Conservative Protestant community norms and the institutions they create seem to increase divorce risk,” researchers say in the study. For example, those who are struggling in their marriage may feel discouraged to find help in communities where marriage is idealized or marital failure is viewed as shameful, the researchers suggest.

“Generally, religion, religious belief and religious activities are thought to strengthen marriages,” said co-author Jennifer Glass, a sociology professor at the University of Texas at Austin. “It appears that the cessation of education, early marriage and early parenthood, you’re set up for relationship conflict, financial stress and dissolution.”

Researchers considered why states with larger proportions of religious conservatives have higher divorce rates than states with lower proportions of religious conservatives. The study compared “conservative Protestants” — those who believe the Bible is without error — with other “mainline Christian” denominations (including Catholics), other faiths and those who aren’t affiliated with a religion.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I was going to say something, then read the article and realised that it has already said what I was thinking:

"In his own research, Stokes found that conservative Protestants who attend church regularly are significantly less likely to have gotten divorced than nonreligious peers.

“The pattern that pops out in this data is that when you look at those who attend church weekly, their divorce rates are the same as other high-attending Christians,” Stokes said. “Nominal Christians are probably getting the community norms but aren’t in a social structure to live the norms out.”"

The bolded bit sums it up. In religious communities, "nominal Christians" (for our purposes, by that I mean those not regularly attending church, in line with the article's definition) probably see their religious peers getting married young, having kids, and then because they live in a culture where marriage is so idealised and is seen as a major life goal or sign of maturity, they want to follow suit and do the same. Of course, once they are actually married, they lack all the advantages that their religious peers have in keeping their marriage solid - a supportive church community, Biblical guidance, God working in them so that they will follow his ways, etc...

[Montmorency]

God working in them so that they will follow his ways

What a dick. :wiseguy:

[naut]

The bolded bit sums it up. In religious communities, "nominal Christians" (for our purposes, by that I mean those not regularly attending church, in line with the article's definition) probably see their religious peers getting married young, having kids, and then because they live in a culture where marriage is so idealised and is seen as a major life goal or sign of maturity, they want to follow suit and do the same. Of course, once they are actually married, they lack all the advantages that their religious peers have in keeping their marriage solid - a supportive church community, Biblical guidance, God working in them so that they will follow his ways, etc...
Can I have a turn at the dataless anecdotal speculation game? :wink:


So the findings applies to both "nominal" and non-"nominal" Christians (whatever that means), because divorce: "affect[s] all people in areas most populated by conservative Protestants, no matter their personal religious affiliation."

But, then it goes on to say: "In his own research, Stokes found that conservative Protestants who attend church regularly are significantly less likely to have gotten divorced than nonreligious peers."

I'd suggest having a divorce in a highly religious environment would be very shaming. Even the unhappy would stick it out because they'll have a perspective of being unhappy both in or out of the marriage. If they were to divorce they'd become the "black-sheep" of the community, so they avoid doing so whatever the cost. Divorce would lose them not only their partners. But also their community.




----fff----



I'd also like to see the study's actual nuts-and-bolts. And how socio-political factors correlate, specifically income, age and immediate family size.

[Strike For The South]

Pressure to marry and settle early

That's it

[Major Robert Dump]

THE PROBLEM WITH THIS STUDDY IS THAT IT DOES NOT DISCUSS NASCAR AND WWE

[a completely inoffensive name]

I agree Major Dump, the Royal Rumble was a tragedy tonight. Batista? Really?!? Both JR and Mick Foley ripped the WWE apart on twitter, that says something.

[Gregoshi]

So couples in the southeast US heavy lean towards breaking their Union in favour of a House Divided? This sounds so familiar... :inquisitive:

[Husar]

Does it say anything about the amount of data points they deleted to make the results fit the expectations of the study sponsor?
And what about conservative catholics? How do they compare?

[Gregoshi]

Does it say anything about the amount of data points they deleted to make the results fit the expectations of the study sponsor?
Hey, we aren't talking about scientists here. Well, real science, anyhow. :laugh4:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Ah the joys of correlation....

My glance at the map says the epicenter seems to be....Tennessee.

So....is it Bible thumping or Country Music at fault? Perhaps we might even wonder at the role Al Gore played in this.

[HoreTore]

Ah the joys of correlation....

My glance at the map says the epicenter seems to be....Tennessee.

So....is it Bible thumping or Country Music at fault? Perhaps we might even wonder at the role Al Gore played in this.

I'll go with country music.

Honestly, who wants to stay married to someone who listens to country music...?

[Lemur]

My glance at the map says the epicenter seems to be....Tennessee.
Wyoming doesn't look so hot, either.

[Lemur]

You guys are right, BTW, that coloring system in the map is very confusing. Trying to correlate dark green w dark blue ... bleh.

Here are some other maps, to make up for it.

https://i.imgur.com/NSuqe22.png

https://i.imgur.com/NggyYPV.png

[naut]

Ah the joys of correlation....

My glance at the map says the epicenter seems to be....Tennessee.

So....is it Bible thumping or Country Music at fault? Perhaps we might even wonder at the role Al Gore played in this.
Country music is an institution, a wholesome American pastime. No way on God's green Earth it could do anything other than foster patriotism and family friendly fun. We got Brad Paisley - Ticks:

Every time you take a sip
In this smoky atmosphere
You press that bottle to your lips
And I wish I was your beer

In the small there of your back
Your jeans are playing peekaboo
I'd like to see the other half
Of your butterfly tattoo

Hey that gives me an idea
Let's get out of this bar
Drive out into the country
And find a place to park

'Cause I'd like to see you
Out in the moonlight
I'd like to kiss you
Way back in the sticks
I'd like to walk you
Through a field of wildflowers
And I'd like to check you for ticks

I know the perfect little path
Out in these woods I used to hunt
Don't worry babe I've got your back
And I've also got your front :wink: :wink: :wink:

Now, I'd hate to waste a night like this
I'll keep you safe you wait and see
The only thing allowed to crawl
All over you when we get there is me :wink: :wink: :wink:

You know every guy in here tonight
Would like to take you home
But I've got way more class than them
Babe that ain't what I want

'Cause I'd like to see you
Out in the moonlight
I'd like to kiss you
Way back in the sticks
I'd like to walk you
Through a field of wildflowers
And I'd like to check you for ticks

Ooo, you never know where one might be
Ooo, there's lots of place that are hard to reach

And I'd like to check you for ticks

Ain't nothing wrong with taking your lady out to the woods.

[Lemur]

No way on God's green Earth [country music] could do anything other than foster patriotism and family friendly fun.
There is a positive correlation between country music and suicide rates in metropolitan areas. (http://www.omg-facts.com/Science/There-Is-A-Positive-Correlation-Between/56491)

[Seamus Fermanagh]

And I have taught in my research methods classes that there is a strong correlation between the number of organized churches in a community with the number of arrests for prostitution and solicitation.

[Strike For The South]

I'd rather be a fence-post in Texas than king of Tennessee


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTuu6-ouy2E

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Haven't heard that one in ages. Classic. And there is NOTHING quite like a Texan's ability to mangle Spanish.....

[lars573]

I've been told marriage is a leading cause of divorce.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXILNncQwH4

[The Lurker Below]

Do all those Florida cities have paper plants? I know two of those do. I can't blame any spouse in one of those towns that want to get out, even if they have to leave a partner behind.

[Ironside]

I've been told marriage is a leading cause of divorce.

I say it's utterly clear that marriage is a gateway-vice for heavier vices, such as divorce. It is also clear that we need to forbid marriage to stem the tide of divorces. According to our data, all divorcées has tried marriage before divorce, so if we forbid marriages, divorces will go down to zero.

Eliminate divorce today, vote to forbid marriage!!!

[Gregoshi]

... so if we forbid marriages, divorces will go down to zero.
Hear hear!! Truly a null meant for marriage. :on_groucho:

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hear hear!! Truly a null meant for marriage. :on_groucho:

Not gonna happen. Given the current climate, maybe we could restrict it to same sex marriages only....

[Montmorency]

So does all that now make ICSD a visionary? :inquisitive:

[SwordsMaster]

I'm curious about that NE corner. Not religious and yet highly divorcious. Or is that the irishness?

[Montmorency]

I'd guess the heavily urban nature of that area has a lot to do with it.

The mountains of Vermont and New Hampshire, and pretty much all of Maine, are pretty rural.

See also: Western New York vs. NYC area. Urban areas seem to get less divorce, looking at the whole map...

[Beskar]

Good point. NYC is less divorcy than rural Maine... Looking at the later maps Lemur posted, I'm actually really surprised to see New York at the lowest end of the teen birth spectrum. I expect it in the south due to the abstinence-only sex ed approach, but I would have figured heavily urban areas like New York to compete. That's a much better map.

Well, New York has very lax abortion laws, so there is no teen Birth as they get aborted. Abstinence-only sex-ed is pretty worthless and because of the anti-Abortion views, they are more likely to carry the child to the end.

[ajaxfetish]

I say it's utterly clear that marriage is a gateway-vice for heavier vices, such as divorce. It is also clear that we need to forbid marriage to stem the tide of divorces. According to our data, all divorcées has tried marriage before divorce, so if we forbid marriages, divorces will go down to zero.

Eliminate divorce today, vote to forbid marriage!!!

Not just divorce, either. Adultery, spouse abuse--marriage leads to a whole slew of social ills.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Catholics who attend mass weekly together have the lowest divorce rates of anyone. "Nominal" anything is expected to be wishy washy and fold at the first sign of stress.

High divorce rates also correspond with low educational attainment, although evangelical protestants have the highest denominational divorce rate of any religious group - including atheists. It also may have to do with religious literalists being unbearably ignorant. Confucius say: bend but not break