View Full Version : Today is a happy day
HoreTore
01-27-2014, 11:22
Hack charged with hackery. (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/pH-Miracle-Author-Accused-of-Practicing-Medicine-Without-a-License--241873261.html)
May he be the first of many to face the proper consequences of the nonsense they spew. I don't have any illusions that this will signal a wave of such arrests, but I can still hope.
The hacks spreading lies about vaccinations, cancer treatment and many other forms of medicine are indirectly responsible for the deaths of several unfortunate, desperate and slightly gullible people. It's time they get what they deserve.
Don't think this will fly, in the end it's a diet. The charges are probably too heavy to get anything out of it.
Government overreach.
These fascists have no business telling people what medicine to offer or to take.
He can also claim what he wants because of free speech.
HoreTore
01-27-2014, 11:58
Government overreach.
These fascists have no business telling people what medicine to offer or to take.
He can also claim what he wants because of free speech.
Fortunately, the US is a first world country with proper laws to deal with quacks. While it may be a tad too much to ban stupidity, you can at least ban fraud. It's a shame Norway's laws on this are too lenient, here you can basically do whatever you want as long as you do not make explicit medical claims.
Fortunately, the US is a first world country with proper laws to deal with quacks. While it may be a tad too much to ban stupidity, you can at least ban fraud. It's a shame Norway's laws on this are too lenient, here you can basically do whatever you want as long as you do not make explicit medical claims.
Fraud doesn't exist and you do not need to ban stupidity, you do not have to ban anything. The strong and clever ones will survive and the market will decide what's right. Everybody will profit from this except the ones who don't deserve it.
HoreTore
01-27-2014, 12:19
Fraud doesn't exist and you do not need to ban stupidity, you do not have to ban anything. The strong and clever ones will survive and the market will decide what's right. Everybody will profit from this except the ones who don't deserve it.
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_Law
Greyblades
01-27-2014, 13:02
I have got to get around to reading that wealth distribution thread, it seems to have turned husar into randy marsh (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNMAha7KjvU)
It's been proven that viruses and cancer thrive in an acidic environment and don't fare well in an alkaline one. The foods that make you body more alkaline are generally more healthy than those that make it more acidic. Eating lemons, leafy greens and such is fine IMO. Charging 2500 dollars a night for studies and ideas not even your own (this thing has been known for a while now) - that's scamming.
It's a subject that I'm suspicious of. We hear about cures for cancer and cars running on tap water, yet always something happens and they never see the light of day. Are they scams, or is someone removing discoveries that would undercut profit? Don't know. Might be getting into tin foil hat land here, but I always keep some doubt in the back of my head.
HoreTore
01-27-2014, 15:26
They're scams, of course they are. The "discoveries" are nothing more than hoaxes, scams and pseudoscience dreamt up in drug-induced hallucinations.
Also, you advocate an alkaline diet, and recommend "eating lemons"? With a ph value of 2...?
This is one of the problems in todays society. People believe what people tell them and don't bother to check actual knowledge. Thus, we end up with outbreaks of diseases we eradicated 50 years ago because people think vaccines are bad, people killing themselves by refusing cancer treatment because all they need to do is eat green and other such nonsense.
Give me another Hitler, we're in need of another genocide. But leave the jews alone this time 'round...
They're scams, of course they are. The "discoveries" are nothing more than hoaxes, scams and pseudoscience dreamt up in drug-induced hallucinations.
Also, you advocate an alkaline diet, and recommend "eating lemons"? With a ph value of 2...?
This is one of the problems in todays society. People believe what people tell them and don't bother to check actual knowledge. Thus, we end up with outbreaks of diseases we eradicated 50 years ago because people think vaccines are bad, people killing themselves by refusing cancer treatment because all they need to do is eat green and other such nonsense.
Give me another Hitler, we're in need of another genocide. But leave the jews alone this time 'round...
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_Law
HoreTore
01-27-2014, 15:44
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Poe%27s_Law
There's no parody, irony or sarcasm in my post.
They're scams, of course they are. The "discoveries" are nothing more than hoaxes, scams and pseudoscience dreamt up in drug-induced hallucinations.
Also, you advocate an alkaline diet, and recommend "eating lemons"? With a ph value of 2...?
This is one of the problems in todays society. People believe what people tell them and don't bother to check actual knowledge. Thus, we end up with outbreaks of diseases we eradicated 50 years ago because people think vaccines are bad, people killing themselves by refusing cancer treatment because all they need to do is eat green and other such nonsense.
Give me another Hitler, we're in need of another genocide. But leave the jews alone this time 'round...
Alternative treatments can work sometimes. Ever heard about a doctor who prescribed seasalt to people who are plagued by migraines or cluster-headaches, yet it works, allready worked in ancient Persia, it was a common remedy at the time. The peope who go to charlatans have probably been given up allready, and it's disgusting that some feed on their misery, but not all alternative methods are bull, they just haven't been recognised by people who often have ties with the pharmaceutical industry.
...Young's "pH Miracle Retreat" offers nightly rates from $1295 to $2495 per night. The rate includes lodging, meals, supplements, and therapies...
There's a guy making money off of selling holistic crap treatment to bored rich folks? In california? Somebdy alert the CNN!!!!
I'm not too hot on the cancer treatment we have today. Ingesting poison that gives you cancer anyway is the way to fight the disease? Cancer treatment is outrageously expensive and the results are unsatisfactory. How is refusing it "killing one self" when you die with cancer treatment anyway?
This is one of the problems in todays society. People believe what people tell them and don't bother to check actual knowledge.
Well I haven't bothered to do more research than going online, but this is what i've gotten. Might be wrong, I'm no biochemist.
There is often misunderstanding of lemon’s pH outside the body versus inside the body. Let’s get this straight and expound on 10 benefits of regularly taking lemon juice with warm water (note: NOT equal to lemonade!)
Outside the body, lemon juice is acidic (pH is below 7). This is a non-issue. Everyone knows this. It’s a citrus fruit.
Inside the body however, when lemon juice has been fully metabolized and its minerals are dissociated in the bloodstream, its effect is alkalizing and therefore raises the pH of the blood (pH above 7 is alkaline). Please notice the difference.
Pannonian
01-27-2014, 17:09
It's been proven that viruses and cancer thrive in an acidic environment and don't fare well in an alkaline one. The foods that make you body more alkaline are generally more healthy than those that make it more acidic. Eating lemons, leafy greens and such is fine IMO.
I assume this is summarising the arguments of the scammer, rather than conventional wisdom. What I'd like to know about these arguments is, how would anything of this sort target only nasty germs? Surely if they harm germs, they harm all organisms alike, whether harmful or beneficial. Which would include the body's own native cells.
Ironside
01-27-2014, 17:14
I'm not too hot on the cancer treatment we have today. Ingesting poison that gives you cancer anyway is the way to fight the disease? Cancer treatment is outrageously expensive and the results are unsatisfactory. How is refusing it "killing one self" when you die with cancer treatment anyway?
It has to do with that cancer is made up by the same cells as the rest of the body. They just act in a way they shouldn't, making them slightly more sensitive to some substances.
Think of it as having a white t-shirt with blue spots on it from the manufacturer. Suddenly these blue spots are dangerous and has to be removed. And that without damaging the white in any way.
There is often misunderstanding of lemon’s pH outside the body versus inside the body. Let’s get this straight and expound on 10 benefits of regularly taking lemon juice with warm water (note: NOT equal to lemonade!)
Outside the body, lemon juice is acidic (pH is below 7). This is a non-issue. Everyone knows this. It’s a citrus fruit.
Inside the body however, when lemon juice has been fully metabolized and its minerals are dissociated in the bloodstream, its effect is alkalizing and therefore raises the pH of the blood (pH above 7 is alkaline). Please notice the difference.
That one is complete bullshit.
Lemon juice doesn't contain any particular minerals that isn't common in other products. It's healthy, but plenty of products got more of those minerals.
Blood is massively pH buffered. Because if it wasn't you'll die. pH is supposed to be at 7,4 (range 7,35-7,45). 7,9 is lethal.
Tellos Athenaios
01-27-2014, 17:22
This seems appropriate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtYkyB35zkk
I assume this is summarising the arguments of the scammer, rather than conventional wisdom. What I'd like to know about these arguments is, how would anything of this sort target only nasty germs? Surely if they harm germs, they harm all organisms alike, whether harmful or beneficial. Which would include the body's own native cells.
Cells have different ph-levels depending on where they are situated because various organs filter things out, it isn't that far of a stretch. Not saying that he isn't a scammer but theoratically I wouldn't call it impossible.
HoreTore
01-27-2014, 17:51
Alternative treatments can work sometimes. Ever heard about a doctor who prescribed seasalt to people who are plagued by migraines or cluster-headaches, yet it works, allready worked in ancient Persia, it was a common remedy at the time. The peope who go to charlatans have probably been given up allready, and it's disgusting that some feed on their misery, but not all alternative methods are bull, they just haven't been recognised by people who often have ties with the pharmaceutical industry.
Alternative treatments that actually work is called "medicine". Everything else is placebo at best.
I'm not too hot on the cancer treatment we have today. Ingesting poison that gives you cancer anyway is the way to fight the disease? Cancer treatment is outrageously expensive and the results are unsatisfactory. How is refusing it "killing one self" when you die with cancer treatment anyway?
When someone who would otherwise seek cancer treatment is tricked/conned/lied to by some charlatan who makes that person believe that silver water is the ultimate way to fight cancer and that regular cancer treatment is a hoax, I consider it appropriate to say the charlatan has blood on his/her hands.
As for the terminally ill, that's just a scam. The person is going to die anyway, so it's not murder, but how ethical is it to steal money from dying people...?
Well I haven't bothered to do more research than going online, but this is what i've gotten. Might be wrong, I'm no biochemist.
Yeah, I dug around a little to find the cause of this absurd claim. I showed what I found to my biologist colleague. Her reaction was simple:
"Nonsense".
If you want a lengthier answer, have some Livestrong (http://www.livestrong.com/article/498141-can-adding-lemon-juice-water-make-water-alkaline/). (he knows his drugs)
Your research method highlights the fundamental problem today: the University of Youtube. The internet is so full of utter nonsense and outright lies that it's impossible to gain any knowledge from it on its own. Youtube and related sites lowers your intelligence, it doesn't add to it. Stay away, and join uni instead.
Cells have different ph-levels depending on where they are situated because various organs filter things out, it isn't that far of a stretch. Not saying that he isn't a scammer but theoratically I wouldn't call it impossible.
Then I suggest you get some new theories. It's rubbish.
Pannonian
01-27-2014, 17:56
When someone who would otherwise seek cancer treatment is tricked/conned/lied to by some charlatan who makes that person believe that silver water is the ultimate way to fight cancer and that regular cancer treatment is a hoax, I consider it appropriate to say the charlatan has blood on his/her hands.
Does colloidal silver actually work for anything? It sounds distinctly dodgy to me, like those old medicines that purported to work better the smellier they were.
lol Horrie, did you really just suggest a placebo-effect that works against cancer. Talk about new theories.
It's basic biology that ph-levels vary depending on the position of the cells, after the kidney, after the liver, incredible isn't it.
HoreTore
01-27-2014, 18:01
Does colloidal silver actually work for anything? It sounds distinctly dodgy to me, like those old medicines that purported to work better the smellier they were.
Nope, it doesn't. Unless you want to look blue (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/2297471.stm), that is.
lol Horrie, did you really just suggest a placebo-effect that works against cancer. Talk about new theories.
I did not. I said "at best" a placebo. The alternative medicine cancer treatment is properly labeled "a scam".
Read up on what the placebo effect is with conventional medicine. About just the same as it is with alternative treatments. A proper diet COULD target specific cells in theory. If it actually does I don't know. But the placebo effect is psycholigical, not physical. It has no place here.
Edit, worded that badly by the way, I didn't specifically mean cancer. But there is hardly any difference between the placebo-effect between conventional methods and alternative methods in general.
Kadagar_AV
01-27-2014, 18:20
Alternative treatments that actually work is called "medicine". Everything else is placebo at best.
When someone who would otherwise seek cancer treatment is tricked/conned/lied to by some charlatan who makes that person believe that silver water is the ultimate way to fight cancer and that regular cancer treatment is a hoax, I consider it appropriate to say the charlatan has blood on his/her hands.
As for the terminally ill, that's just a scam. The person is going to die anyway, so it's not murder, but how ethical is it to steal money from dying people...?
Yeah, I dug around a little to find the cause of this absurd claim. I showed what I found to my biologist colleague. Her reaction was simple:
"Nonsense".
If you want a lengthier answer, have some Livestrong (http://www.livestrong.com/article/498141-can-adding-lemon-juice-water-make-water-alkaline/). (he knows his drugs)
Your research method highlights the fundamental problem today: the University of Youtube. The internet is so full of utter nonsense and outright lies that it's impossible to gain any knowledge from it on its own. Youtube and related sites lowers your intelligence, it doesn't add to it. Stay away, and join uni instead.
Then I suggest you get some new theories. It's rubbish.
There is a lot of **** on the internet, as well as truths.
At university, it is the same. But state sponsored **** and truths.
Coming from Norway you should know this first hand, as few universities in the western world has sprouted as much **** as Norwegian ones. Specially when it comes to feminism and multiculturalism.
You watched Hjernevask?
HoreTore
01-27-2014, 19:01
There is a lot of **** on the internet, as well as truths.
At university, it is the same. But state sponsored **** and truths.
Coming from Norway you should know this first hand, as few universities in the western world has sprouted as much **** as Norwegian ones. Specially when it comes to feminism and multiculturalism.
At uni, you will learn research methods as well as actual knowledge. You'll learn neither from the University of Youtube.
And the subject of this thread concerns the hard sciences, not multiculturalism and feminism.
You watched Hjernevask?
No. I prefer to stay away from both post-modernism and the public showcasing of a man in a desperate mid-life crisis.
Seamus Fermanagh
01-27-2014, 19:05
....And the subject of this thread concerns the hard sciences, not multiculturalism and feminism....
Why don't those too qualify? It would be very "hard" to label them "sciences" no?
Pannonian
01-27-2014, 19:15
Read up on what the placebo effect is with conventional medicine. About just the same as it is with alternative treatments. A proper diet COULD target specific cells in theory. If it actually does I don't know. But the placebo effect is psycholigical, not physical. It has no place here.
Edit, worded that badly by the way, I didn't specifically mean cancer. But there is hardly any difference between the placebo-effect between conventional methods and alternative methods in general.
Conventional placebos are much cheaper and designed to have no ill effects. Alternative medicine placebos are much more expensive and are designed to be different. One is designed to give you peace of mind at minimal cost and risk. The other is designed to relieve you of as much money as possible.
Kadagar_AV
01-27-2014, 19:16
At uni, you will learn research methods as well as actual knowledge. You'll learn neither from the University of Youtube.
And the subject of this thread concerns the hard sciences, not multiculturalism and feminism.
The problem with science remains. Be it "hard" or other types. Why differentiate anyway??? Science is science, no?
No. I prefer to stay away from both post-modernism and the public showcasing of a man in a desperate mid-life crisis.
Post-modernistic desperate men can - even during a mid-life crisis - be a torch of enlightenment in the otherwise dark and bitter Norwegian intellectualism...
I have no idea who the guy who made that show is, but he sure made quite some of your university peeps come off as quite retarded.
Pannonian
01-27-2014, 19:19
The problem with science remains. Be it "hard" or other types. Why differentiate anyway??? Science is science, no?
Do "soft" sciences have repeatable experiments and results?
Kadagar_AV
01-27-2014, 19:24
Do "soft" sciences have repeatable experiments and results?
Uhu :yes:
Way more advanced, of course. But still, yeah, no difference.
Conventional placebos are much cheaper and designed to have no ill effects. Alternative medicine placebos are much more expensive and are designed to be different. One is designed to give you peace of mind at minimal cost and risk. The other is designed to relieve you of as much money as possible.
Not sure if you understand what the placebo-effect is, sorry if I got that wrong. The placebo-effect is an imagionary benefit, half of the people who got the exact same conditions got a medicine that's supposed to work, and half of them a fake medicine. The results were pretty much equal ultimatily. No matter if they had the real medicine or the fake ones.
I've not much been impressed with the universities I've attended personally. I suppose they were of lower quality stock, and my major has nothing to do with science and research. The good thing about the internet is that you can see very different and unorthodox takes on things which may get you to question things. Questioning things is good. Believing anything (crackpot theories included) like a lemming is bad. I personally have not made it my life goal into researching how to cure cancer. I know leeches don't work and I know chemo and radiation make you sick, bald and ultimately a little bit less dead for a while. So I'm keeping my hopes up and keeping an open mind.
I fully agree that the terminally ill should not be scammed out of their money. This includes the conventional medicine methods. My father's girlfriend's mother passed away from cancer last year. She was on her death bead yet they still injected her with chemicals, 2,500 euro a pop. They knew she was dead, so much that they refused to have her hospitalized because if she dies there it would be a negative point on their record or something (our system sucks copious amounts of daisies). Yeah, so they spent a good deal of their savings on chems only to have her die at home anyway. Witch-doctors and nutritionists taking the 2,500 euro are worse of course, but the end result is the same. No money for the family and an equally dead person.
HoreTore
01-27-2014, 20:07
Why don't those too qualify? It would be very "hard" to label them "sciences" no?
'Cause that's another can of worms, as those sciences have political implications.
And the Sokal affair demonstrated that they contain quite a bit of nonsense.
HoreTore
01-27-2014, 20:10
Not sure if you understand what the placebo-effect is, sorry if I got that wrong. The placebo-effect is an imagionary benefit, half of the people who got the exact same conditions got a medicine that's supposed to work, and half of them a fake medicine. The results were pretty much equal ultimatily. No matter if they had the real medicine or the fake ones.
I don't think you actually understand what placebo is.
A study with the results you wrote there, is of a study which proves the medicine to be ineffective.
HoreTore
01-27-2014, 20:11
Post-modernistic desperate men can - even during a mid-life crisis - be a torch of enlightenment in the otherwise dark and bitter Norwegian intellectualism...
The professors interviewed were the post-modernists, and Harald Eia, the creator of the show, was the guy with the mid-life crisis. If you're going to mock, get thy terms correct.
Tellos Athenaios
01-27-2014, 20:39
Fragony: the placebo effect is a mental thing. Lot's of diseases improve once you stop worrying about them so much, the effects of 'stress' on the body are worse than the actual ailment. The placebo effect is the effect when you fool someonething into thinking that they are cured by administering a placebo with the result that they actually get better.
The key bit is the mental thing. Also, you may want to look up psychosomatic disease. These effects can all, invariably be remedied by placebo's because the problem is an overactive imagination.
As for silver: don't. Silver is actually toxic because there is plenty, plenty of stuff in the body which will react with silver. Silver is not nearly like gold (harmless because it will pass right through all your metabolism), and there are plenty of reagents in the body that will react with silver giving you lots of fun pollutants to worry about.
Pannonian
01-27-2014, 20:44
Fragony: the placebo effect is a mental thing. Lot's of diseases improve once you stop worrying about them so much, the effects of 'stress' on the body are worse than the actual ailment. The placebo effect is the effect when you fool someonething into thinking that they are cured by administering a placebo with the result that they actually get better.
The key bit is the mental thing. Also, you may want to look up psychosomatic disease. These effects can all, invariably be remedied by placebo's because the problem is an overactive imagination.
As for silver: don't. Silver is actually toxic because there is plenty, plenty of stuff in the body which will react with silver. Silver is not nearly like gold (harmless because it will pass right through all your metabolism), and there are plenty of reagents in the body that will react with silver giving you lots of fun pollutants to worry about.
Does colloidal silver come from the same place that produced charms made of precious metals which if worn next to the body would offer proof against ailments?
Fragony: the placebo effect is a mental thing. Lot's of diseases improve once you stop worrying about them so much, the effects of 'stress' on the body are worse than the actual ailment. The placebo effect is the effect when you fool someonething into thinking that they are cured by administering a placebo with the result that they actually get better.
I know that, I already said that it's psychological instead of physical a few posts back. I may be an idiot but I never talk about I things I know nothing about.
I fully agree that the terminally ill should not be scammed out of their money. This includes the conventional medicine methods. My father's girlfriend's mother passed away from cancer last year. She was on her death bead yet they still injected her with chemicals, 2,500 euro a pop. They knew she was dead, so much that they refused to have her hospitalized because if she dies there it would be a negative point on their record or something (our system sucks copious amounts of daisies). Yeah, so they spent a good deal of their savings on chems only to have her die at home anyway. Witch-doctors and nutritionists taking the 2,500 euro are worse of course, but the end result is the same. No money for the family and an equally dead person.
I know what it looks like, my sympathies. I watched my father die from cancer but I really had to be there with him. It's not a pleasant sight at all. I always thought he was euthanised but I later heard that wasn't true, he got morphine in the final phase. It's ugly. Grasping for breath, blood comming from his throat. Incredibly horrible. Screw that disease.
Kadagar_AV
01-27-2014, 23:06
I know that, I already said that it's psychological instead of physical a few posts back. I may be an idiot but I never talk about I things I know nothing about.
:laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4: :laugh4:
Dude, next time write such things in a spoiler or something... Got coffee all over my screen now :stare:
a completely inoffensive name
01-28-2014, 07:07
If a "health expert" wrote a book about how pissing in a bucket and leaving it next to your bed keeps your skin hydrated and looking young, there would be rich Californians doing it.
If a "health expert" wrote a book about how pissing in a bucket and leaving it next to your bed keeps your skin hydrated and looking young, there would be rich Californians doing it.
You have to rub it in before you go to sleep, over the air it is less effective.
You have to rub it in before you go to sleep, over the air it is less effective.
For best results you need to drink it.
For best results you need to drink it.
Correct, but it must be the pee of a 20 year old stripper.
HoreTore
01-28-2014, 17:46
If a "health expert" wrote a book about how pissing in a bucket and leaving it next to your bed keeps your skin hydrated and looking young, there would be rich Californians doing it.
You have to rub it in before you go to sleep, over the air it is less effective.
For best results you need to drink it.
Correct, but it must be the pee of a 20 year old stripper.
You think you're kidding, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine_therapy) but.... (http://www.whale.to/a/urine_therapy.html)
I'm not kidding, I've used skin products with urea before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urea#Medical_use
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